Gold Melting How To Glaze A Melt Dish Crucible With Borax
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- Опубліковано 10 гру 2016
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Shows how to glaze a melt dish from start to finish in real time. Takes about 10 minutes with a MAP gas torch and BORAX. - Наука та технологія
YES! most efficient, well done demonstration of priming a crucible!! FINALLY!!!!
Great video, straight to the point - no gabbing on and on. Love it
It’s so neat to see your old videos.
after a few videos on your channel i must admit, i learned more AND more usefull things than in my education as a chem. lab technician. Hope i can make use of everything i learned in the future, thanks :)
I just found this,,, it is the best video for glazing I've seen on the Internet. Well done and Thank You !
So satisfying. Amazing content and tips, much appreciated 👍🏾
You have explained every single step in your entire operation. Thank you so much.
I appreciate your video. I have been searching all over and you helped me to easily understand exactly 💯 what to do.
Thank you so much!!!! I love the time taken to show how do apply borax correctly
Thanks!! Just got two in today! You was the first person I looked up! I knew you would have SOMETHING on this! BINGO!
Less is more!
I recently got a crucible like this and I've got some borax and stuff too, this will really help me out when I get the chance to use it!
Excellent.
Yes! I had not seen anyone do prep to their crucible and wondered if and how it should be done. Thank You Again! PS. Love the Ebay store items
May I ask if this should be done to large, I believe ceramic, crucibles before going into the foundry furnace? I was left Dad's green-sand table, foundry, and equipment, and of course will take a class so to speak before using it, but your teachings have inspired me to quit being gun shy and go for it. (40 years ago as an 9 year old kid I "independently took Dad's torch to a piece of quartz in a vice...still have the scar from where the unroasted silicate popped and melted into my forearm)
Glazing a fuse silica melt dish, like the one in this video, is madatory. But I don't know about ceramic or clay crucibles in a large foundry. I do know that borax should be kept away from graphite crucibles at all costs.
sreetips Borax away from graphite? I would have never ever thought that and had it in mind to use it as a flux when I got it going. Glad you told me, thanks!
Great video, yes! Thank you for your step-by-step instructions, with appropriate video to add the detail.
I underatand what i did wrong thr firat time I attempted to glaze... i wound up with a HUGE pool of glaze at the bottom of the dish.
Very very good. Thank you my friend. Very professional 🎯
Thank you for this video!!!....I've had my crucible for about a year now...neglecting it...but not now!...your video is clear and concise...I am going to take out my borax and crucible and season it and get to melting!
Excellent
this video was amazing and very welly done. Im glad you showed the steps so well that some of it was so specific. it helped out so much i really appreciate it.
good thing you made this vid... i was about to make the Rookie mistake you spoke of lol
Excellent and informative video. I learned the right way first time instead of fumbling my way through it
Bravo
So I thought I would give this a try, I watched several videos and not one time did any one say the crucible needed to be glazed lol, so I ruined one haha I’ll try again, Thanks !
Sreetips, thank you So Much for posting this video! Yes, last week I was one of the idiots who thought the more borax the better... I ruined all my silver and my new 250 gram bowl. I watched other videos and you are the only one that glazes the bowl. I watched your video like 10 times and today, my new bowl turned out Great, not as good as yours but practice makes perfect right? Anywho... I just wanted to say thank you for the lesson and your time making this video. Have a great day!
Great, I'm glad that it helped you.
Thanks, kad. Used an oxy/ace torch and bare hands-gets hot getting that close but turned out like yours... perfect first time trying it.
Bravo
Very good video, lots of detail.thanks.
That was very thorough. I appreciate seeing it in detail. I'm about to do this for the first time. How does one judge how much borax to put in the melt itself? Like for a chunky silver ring and enough for the spur?
Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge it will be passed on. Unlike others who are selling their seasoned crucible and keeps it in as a secret. I would never do business with people like that. Just saying.
Awesome, this is much better than using Handy Flux, the end result of that is a dark grayish dish. The Borax leaves the dish still looking new!!!
just the video i needed right now bout to order a melt dish just filtered out my first ap batch i had sitting for a few months got super busy at work after putting it in. hope it didnt put any gold into solution with it sitting but ordering some stannous supply's as well to find out. but love your content been very helpful on my journey. also found goldrefiningforum earlier this week and that been helpful also but videos help me process the info a lot more easily.
If a picture's worth a thousand words, then a video is worth a million. Thanks for the comment, glad it helped you.
My user name on GRF is "kadriver"
ya ive ran across alot of your posts on there so far. ya for all the different base metals and terminology for the different acid solution for different metals is all a lil confusing make my brain hurt trying to read it all and understand but slowly working on understanding it all.
and havent found a answer tried some googling it. but my "gold" ive separated out from ap solution after ive washed and removed from filter, for storage till i get a big batch for refining how should i store it. dry it out or will i hurt to store it in distilled water in mason jar sealed
You'll probably be ok storing in water. Then filter out when you get ready to refine with bleach and HCl.
I'm ordering all the supplies now. Lots of small bits of ASTM 995, maybe 5 ounces collected over a year. I have so many plans for the money.
Great video thanks...I purchased a graphite 1 oz mold ... should that mold be glazed too? Or does that really matter in the quantity of the surface of the bar?
Thank you so much for this
Excelente trabajo
Nice!! Thank you.
I'm a noobie. This was helpful. I've had crucibles suddenly disintegrate on their own when not used - you reach for it and it's cracked and fragile. I think from damp. I fluxed the outside of the crucible also and this seems to help with damp migration. I think.
a year later yes but if it's still relevant try storing them with desiccant...a 5lb container of reusable stuff is on Amazon for like 30$
It looks like it came straight from the manufacturer at the end!!
Thank you, i did one bowl from watching another video and I have sticky spots in it so I did not try to melt my silver, I have 4 more to do and will be buying some borax tomorrow. The other video said to use flux. It looked nothing like yours when finished. I have black lines and tacky spots all in the bowl.
I use my outdoor weed burner to heat the crucible when glazing. Definitely get hot enough with just propane… if your btu output is high enough. I do work it in though with MAPP gas afterward
Great information thx…!
I love you for this, although I asked you personally like 3yrs ago... :)
I couldn't remember who, only that there was a request to show this. Thanks for looking.
sreetips
Yea it was me, I was starting to pour my own silver back in '04 and needed lots of help, thanks for all the help, we spoke and I told you that I had a couple of bars that were formed full of junk and debris, you told me I could send them to you and you'll purify them. I never got around to it and they're still in my drawer to this day.
sreetips
Thanks again for this vid, I love your stuff, other than thumbs up and comment is there any other way we can support your channel, do you have an online store where you sell your wares?
Hi. Great video. What type of backer board do you recommend using as a work surface? And are you working on a soft fire brick or something else? Thanks.
I think it's 1/4 or 3/8 thick from Home Depot. I had it in my garage and just added it to my melt table to protect the wood. That brick is hard fire brick
AWESOME, but I have a question,do you have to use MAPP gas or could it be ok if I used Propane gas?
Propane does not get hot enough.
thank you
Good tip
I used too much borax once and it poured out with my molten silver
Could you do a video on how to clean out a crucible once its full of dirty borax? I've heard of some people using nitric acid to clean it, and others use soda ash. I just tried some soda ash and it seems to be dissolving the borax, leaving a white background, but I'm not sure if that's the crucible material I'm seeing or if that's residue from the soda ash.
Thanks so much
Wow, it added to my knowledge in melting gold.
Does the boxas was really used as glazing for pottery business?
No, pottery glaze is different from borax.
Am vazut acest video si doream sa intreb la ce temperatura rezista creuzetul?Am gasit la 1100 grade C. M-ar interesa si diametrul exterior al piesei Dv. Multumesc pentru video.
Thank you
Thanks for sharing 🎯
Hey Sreetips. Love your videos. I just finished my first gold button after watching your stuff and it's awesome. I was wondering if you know how to get copper out of my silver powder. I think I had too much nitric in the solution when I added the copper to precipitate and now it's red silver. Any ideas? Thanks again for the videos.
I get that my self from time to time. You're right, probably too much nitric. When dissolving your sterling/925 silver always make sure that there is still a little undissolved silver left over in the vessel when your reaction is done. If you have undissolved silver, and if you've got the solution hot, and if there are no more fumes being produced, then these are all good signs that most of the free nitric acid has been consumed by the reaction. If these conditions exist then you should be able to cement the silver on clean copper and not have to worry about excessive nitric consuming your copper and redissolving your cement silver as fast as it cements out. The cement silver will be about 995 pure. Also, I've added sulfamic acid until foaming ceases to kill excess nitric with some success. But make sure the container is inside another catch container in case it boils over on you.
Thanks. I was thinking I'd make this red silver into shot and then put it back through the process, making sure I use up the nitric this time. Anyway, good stuff. Keep it going, we're all learning a lot.
I think this is happening with too concentrated solutions
So I guessing the red in my filter paper is red silver? I tried recovering with some scrap silver and I think I used too much 70% nitric acid. I still got plenty of silver precip but it is super fine. The rxn was pretty "lively" no overflow though! Seemed to take forever adding copper to use up the nitric. Didnt know what else to do with that. I also reclaimed the copper solution using sodium bicarb. Have lovely turquoise precip of copper carbonate but still have light blue fluid that does not respond to additional bicarb. Is that still copper? Sorry for all the long questions.
Awesome
Is it necessary , or beneficial to add borax to a graphite crucible before using ?
Just seasoned my first dish, I have one or two dark almost black marks, Will this interfere with my metal and how can I avoid in future? Thanks! Great vid!
Probably some dirt or junk from the torch tip. I’ve seen if before and while not desirable it didn’t affect the assay.
Nice video! I have a couple questions: do you always glaze new crucible and for how long does it stay (how many time you can melt different metals before reglazing it again)?
After initial I don't ever do it again
@@sreetips what about the bigger crucibles do you have to glaze those too?
I only glaze the fused silica crucible. The white ones. After about ten about melts I retire it to inquartation duty.
@@sreetips so is the glaze a borosilicate glass?
Perfection :D
Hello again,
When making a silver shot crucible do I need to drill the holes before or after I glaze it?
A side note: I recovered my missing 600+ grams of cemented silver. I just diluted my big mess and there it was!
I drilled mine after glazing. Be aware that I've had some problems with the hole getting plugged during the melt and the silver didn't flow very well.
thanks
Nice were do you get your crucibles? I look on amazon but i can only find really small ones
I bought twelve dozen back in 2012 from a place in Chicago called Miller's Jewelry Supply (312) 630-9055 I think they were about $5 each back then
@@sreetipsThis wouldn’t happen to be YOUR jewelry store, is it? lol! Just kidding.😊
Hey Kilost again, is there any way to remove the borax of you got over zealous and impatient when trying to glaze or has it been a lost cause?
Get it real hot, pour out the molten borax.
Wish I watched this an hour ago. Oops! The best.
If you've used too much borax and it flows with the molten metal, how do you get remove the excess of the metal? You mentioned using sulfuric acid in another video. Is there anything else that could be used?
100ml distilled hot water with 5ml sulfuric acid.
Great video! Question, though: When I tried doing this, the little pinches of borax I applied would just blow away when I brought the map gas to it. I brought each part of the crucible I was applying the borax to to a dull red just like you did, but it still blew away. How to I avoid that?
I don't know, it must be your technique.
Wouldn't this be because you didn't pre-heat the crucible? A hot crucible give the borax something to stick to.
Thanks. I did exactly that but noticed on the reviews of the kit I purchased, a few questioned if the material was even a type of borax
I buy 20-mule-team borax from the hardware store. It's about $5 for a pound and it will last me several years.
Thank you. Should I toss this new crucible and purchase another one? It has "borax" that is chipping and flaking off taking a little of the crucible with it. I am also concerned the temp in the air is working against me. It's an unheated garage, almost freezing. The propane torch has major difficulties. Should I run two torches or try acetolyne?
Propane, in my experience, does not get hot enough. I use MAP gas in a yellow cylinder. MAP gas will get much hotter and do the job nicely.
That is the other option I was looking at. Would mapp gas get hot enough in a freezing environment if I build a tiny fire brick enclosure around the crucible?
That should not matter.
Okay so i have a graphite crucible, and you said that we should not use any borax for that.So, we can melt gold in it without any prep.?
I have zero experience melting gold in a graphite crucible. I melt gold in a fuse silica open-face melt dish like the one in this video. I pour molten gold into a graphite mold. If even a tiny bit of molten borax gets into the graphite mold then it will glue the ingot into the mold. I've actually had to break molds to get the gold ingot out because of this. For this reason I recommend that borax be kept away from a graphite mold. Using borax in a graphite crucible may be a different story.
Do we have to do this each melt? Or will this one glazing be enough to last for a couple melts?
One glaze should last for multiple melts.
did you mean a table spoon? a few of your pinches looked like half teaspoon alone.. great video just wanna make sure i dont overload the borax on my first pour!
No, I meant teaspoon. I use just enough to lightly coat the dish with borax. Too much borax will cause molten borax to pour with the molten metal. The excess borax will adhere to the ingot. Then it must be removed with a 5% solution of sulfuric acid (5ml concentrated sulfuric acid in about 100ml water) with some heat.
Should the outside be glazed as well? Or is the little bit of borax that falls on the outer side enough?
The top of the rim and the inside, the outside should not be glazed. If any gets on the outside then the dish will get glued to the ceramic wool that the dish sits on during a melt.
Nice
is it possible to do this with a butane torch, or will that not get hot enough?
I’ve not tried a butane torch.
I'm a newbie I tried using Propane didn't work saw ur video I'm gonna try it but question my torch is for Propane do I need new torch?
Get a map gas torch with auto-igniter. They used to be about fifty bucks, before they printed all these dollars and made them worthless.
Hi. So I'm the person who added way too much borax and now my ceramic crucible is a red mess. Is there a way to burn off the borax to start over? Thanks!
Yes, but it will take much heat.
Ive tried copying what you are doing, but my borax gets really bubbly blows around and wants to clump into balls that run down to the bottom of the dish leaving gaps, Ive had to go back with a graphite rod and spread it around to get the results you have. Any advice on what I might be doing wrong?
Use a map gas torch
Thanks for the video i just destroyed 2 crusibles
Steve Woods I destroyed one as well
@Sreetips Sir I just want to say thanks. I’ve learned so much from your videos. I’m gathering all the stuff needed but I’m in South America and is not easy/cheap. I don’t have much gold, and that’s why I don’t want that the supplies to melt and purify end up costing more than the gold itself.
I want some ideas on what to use as a “poor man” crucible. Here is very easy to find clay pots. Can I use those? I would love the proper supplies but is very hard. Hopefully you can give me some “sreeTIPS” 😉.
if you can afford to buy an amazon kit , it doesn't cost much more than 80 bux for the mold, torch, fuel, and crucible together. i looked around coin shops and mining stores but nobody wants to touch your gold to melt it down. they want to sell you their own gold and trade in your gold for a certain amount of theirs. their excuse is " we need to send it to the refiner" so unfortunately you may need to do this process yourself. gold melting point is 1064 degrees Celcius. if you have any clay pot that can stand up to that kind of heat, you can definitely do it in there. i would say get a map gas torch then experiment burning different types of clay pots and the one that survives the heat will be the one you can use. from there you can season it as per this video and go from there.
the smelter that I use puts borax in graphite crucibles by the hands full and don`t seem to be a problem?
The only graphite I use is the ingot mold. If borax gets anywhere near it when pouring a gold or silver bar, the borax will glue the freshly poured ingot in the mold. I've had to break graphite molds to get the ingots out because of the molten borax pouring over with the metal.I suppose a crucible made of graphite may be a different story.
The adiabatic temperature of your MAP [sic] gas, which is actually propylene gas, is only marginally better than propane (3730F vs 3600F). I've read that the inner flame temperature of propylene is hotter than propane, but from the looks of your torch tip you're not taking advantage of that; you seem to be using an old MAPP torch and you're getting a wide/wobbly flame due to that.
It's been ten years since real MAPP gas was available in the United States.
Even a new Mapp torch has the same Turbo circular fat flame. Its design is fat to heat copper plumbing fittings, keeping a large area hot enough to draw 95/5 solder into the fitting and keep the opposite side of the fitting from cooling. It might not be the proper tip needed but its age has nothing to do with the flame produced.
I'm so glad at least a few people know this. The og mapp factory blew up.
I don’t know anything about the history. All I know is that propane won’t melt gold or silver. But the yellow canisters labeled MAP will.
@@sreetips It's just the torch head. ua-cam.com/video/VjRWRsLobpM/v-deo.html
Ok that’s what I was wondering too.Thanks for addressing the issue because I believed propane would work due to the temp being well within the needed amount for melting.
where do you purchase your melting dishes. on amazon.com the maximum you can buy in a pack is SIX.
Hi! What's the difference between the 20 mule borax and borax use as a flux? And can you use the mule borax as a flux?
I only use Twenty Mule Team Borax from the grocery store.
Are borax fumes dangerous to breathe? Does this require a mask? Thanks for the tutorial!
Any time heat is used fumes are produced and a mask should be worn.
I attempted to glaze my crucible but no matter what, it would pool up. I attempted to melt down a silver dime for a test run and the borax glaze would slowly engulf the dime. What should I do? Buy new crucible? Attempt to slowly grind it out?
Notice that I heat the dish to redness BEFORE I add the small pinch of borax. That way the borax sticks to the hot part of the dish. Then I use the flame to spread the molten borax evenly. I do this sides first and save the bottom for last.
will any kind of concrete backer work for the work surface.like durock backer board?
I have backer board on my melt table - works perfectly
Do u need to do this when melting silver as well?
Yes, then the metals won't stick to the dish
Do you need to glaze it each time you use it?
No, after the initial glaze it can be used over and over. For gold melting, I use the same dish many times. But I only melt pure gold in it. After cooling down, I put it up so I can use it again. After several melts tiny gold balls will cling to the side and not flow down to the bottom. When this happens I add a pinch of fresh powdered borax and the gold balls release and flow to the bottom. I'll probably use it 20 or 30 times until it begins to show signs of pitting, then I retire it to melting karat gold and glaze a new dish.
Any good alternative to Borax - hard to get hold of in the U.K.
Borax is laundry detergent additive. Should be able to order it on eBay. I bought mine at the grocery store. I don't know of any substitutes.
Can i use kiln instead of torch and I will use handy flux
Not sure, I’ve never tried it.
I'm wondering if you could use a saturated solution of borax and distilled water and wipe or paint it on and let it dry before torching? Would be a much more even surface and quicker. If you give it a try sometime let me know. :)
The borax must be melted
@@sreetips Yes, I understand that.
Hello
Do you have to glaze an iron melting pot 🤔
I've never used an iron melting pot.
Where do you get these crucibles from. I can find smaller ones but not this size? Please
I bought one dozen, dozen of them from a place in Chicago, Il called Miller's Jewelry Supply. It was about $400 nines years ago.
sreetips thank you very much for the answer.... thank you for the huge effort and time you put into all your videos. I do have one other question, I wish I could include a pic but the dish I’m trying to glaze did not come out anything like yours. I have the same torch head and gas but the borax is spotty I guess is best description and the black spots are everywhere?? Not enough heat maybe? I have re-watched your video a couple times the only thing I think I maybe doing wrong is not holding the torch close enough ,then again maybe I am... I just don’t know...
The black spots are normal. I get them too. I think it is carbon that mingles with the molten borax. To get then to disappear just continue to heat the black spots until they go away. But be careful, you can scorch the dish if you get it too hot. Keep the flame moving.
sreetips thank you very much for taking the time to answer my question. I was smiling when I seen you had replied. I’m really trying to figure it out and from what I can tell I’m doing it right yet it just doesn’t look right to me. Thank you again.
You can use regular borax for cleaning right?
Yes
Umm yeah, how long before you can use the crucible?
I’d say waiting about half hour should do it
yesterday i went in blind with a crucible and a propane torch . i made an on the fly smelter with stove pipe and inserted the nozzle into the side . even though it had a steel cap it did not get even close enough heat wise . im going out today to buy the map gas . i have about a regular half ounce of gold i pulled from cell phones etcetera . do i need to add any borax as i smelt or is the glazing good enough?
Map is about 150 degrees F hotter than propane. I have seen dual propane torches inside an insulated enclosure work for melting small amounts of gold and silver
thanks . i saw the dual system that guy way using just went out and snagged 2 bottles of map with the fancy electric trigger.
Get some ceramic wool to insulate your melt dishes for faster melt and use less gas.
that`s super helpful i wrote it down thank you . i just melted about 2 ounces of silver and half an ounce of gold using the white dish like you have . i have cylinders but cannot generate enough heat to make them worth while . as such i can`t seem to pour the metals into this mold i have . i will certainly get that , awesome.. if it helps you any i`m a retired union carpenter and non union electrician and will happily help in return in any way i can. should you have questions.(i was very good)
I want process of take out gold and silver from shops dust thanks
Please see my video on refining jeweler's work bench filings and clippings.
how long do you wait until you can melt?
Once treated with borax, the dish can be used to melt metal immediately.
Also, can I use a small cast iron pan to melt my silver?
Possibly, but I've never tried that. The silver may bond to the iron and be difficult to remove.
Thank you for the response
Could someone please tell me how long you could safely leave that primed crucible before it is unusable? E.g could you prime it on monday and do your pour on tuesday?
Yes
@@sreetips thanks sreetips, you are an absolute legend!
Is that a quartz melt dish?
No, fused silica melt dish
Capricious
Should we glaze the bottom as well?
Yes
@@sreetips alright thanks!
I've noticed several dozen very tiny gold beads stuck in the glazing in my melt dish. Any recommendation on getting them out. I've tried using a larger bead to collect them when melting but they won't budge. Any ideas would be much appreciated.
Yes, get the dish hot, then add a spoon full of borax. Then use the flame to rinse the beads down into the dish. If the sides of the dish are in good shape then the borax will melt and cause the gold beads to flow (flux means flow) down to the bottom of the dish. Then use the flame to manipulate the beads into a single bead and pluck it out before the molten borax hardens. Or, pour everything, molten borax and gold beads into a METAL container of tap water. Then use hot water to dissolve the borax glass and recover your gold beads.
It takes the time, but yes; we can use that for the crucible of electric furnace too ?
not using much borax is a good advice thanks,
you utilise always the melt dish and gas, rarely the electric furnace, there is a raison or juste a personal choice ?
My first time using an electric furnace, loved it.
And Wjy You want To DO This?
Can this be done for silver
Yes