I Challenged Stockfish: Queen Vs Rook 😮 Queen vs Rook Endgame Practice - Advanced Chess Endgame
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- Опубліковано 28 сер 2022
- Q vs R FEN: 8/8/8/3kr3/8/3KQ3/8/8 w - - 0 1
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The general way to beat the 3rd rank defence is to move the queen further away, so that you have access to a lot more checks.
Near the middle would be the best option also separating the enemy rook and the king by checking and blocking the king from nearing it's rook that way its easier to fork
then you switch corner to force king i figured out
"The ability to play chess is the sign of a gentleman. The ability to play chess well is the sign of a wasted life." - Paul Morphy.
Seriously. Who wants to study this endgame just to be slightly better in a couple potential games and forget the lessons anyways? Very painful
But then who’s Magnus? Vishy? Hikaru? They’re out there living their best life.
And yes I know Paul is considered a great chess player
@@marshallkimmathers Wasted life in intellectual sense (social cause) and not personal well being.
@@nix4110 I think these endgames aren't about general use but more about problem-solving. They aren't tips, kinda like watching someone play a video game. not for learning but for entertainment
I didn't knew it was this tricky to win a qween vs rook endgame
Now I don't feel that bad
I'm the king, no pun intended, at the rook forcing me to capture him with my queen.
I had a daily game where I had the queen, he had the rook. I just couldn't do it, we drew. That was when I realized that this was NOT an easy endgame, even if stockfish says +5
Rooks are seriously undervauled. Despite a mere 1pt difference, I have played 2 rooks vs queen and the queen never made it to move 3.
Queen vs Rook is a very hard endgame to win, I remember a story about an IM drawing a Grandmaster in the endgame because he was one of the world's leading experts in it. Doesn't help that some positions are Mate in >50 moves.
Queen*
I think a good idea would have been to swap places and see if Stockfish could mate you.
stockfish 100% woulda mated him with reversed roles
Agree, seems like good way to learn to mate with queen Vs rook.
A human and fish mating?? 😳
@@zenorite878 it’s how Magnus was born
@@zenorite878 why are you gay 🤔
I love how you don’t edit out mistakes or if things don’t go well. I learn from those mistakes too
Thanks for this video Nelson. It's helpful to see how you work through a problem you've never done before, as opposed to a prepared lesson. It illustrates how you think through positions and learn, which was very enlightening to me.
I love the variety of videos on this channel, it’s just one of the many things that make it great!
Congratulations - it was fascinating to see the learning process of an accomplished and serious player. Great video.
I would've just taken the draw by insufficient material 😅 saves me the absolute humiliation that would undoubtedly follow if I tried to win
Remember that your opponent is about as good or bad as you are. So they could blunder the rook to a fork if you keep trying
@@rykehuss3435 euhm, you do know the opponent is stockfish right?
@@somerandomweeb4836 For some reason I thought he was talking about if he gets into that endgame in a real match
Except that it's not insufficient material. Both sides could potentially win.
@@reubenmanzo2054 I think you misunderstood my comment, in the position in the thumbnail, I would've taken blacks rook with my queen and drawn stockfish
Oh boy, I remember how tough it was when I was studying this endgame. However, studying it helped me twice to win with a queen and once even to draw with a rook.
At 2.20 doesn't h7 win the rook?
@@34Zero carefully, black's move on 2:20 was with check.
@@34Zero i’m thinking at 2:10 queen to C5 gives a fork. or am I missing something
@@tristan6773 King F4 or E4 both would protect the rook after Queen C5 check
@@aura809 thx
I think i’m about to get into chess. idk how these chess videos came up.
This one is amazingly complicated, I've looked at it on and off for more than 5 years and still it holds on to several secrets
Looks easy enough; only four pieces. Involves some of t he most subtle concepts of chess.
Very cool!
Great video as always! Had a question: Will you be continuing that Proof games series?
Maybe eventually! Saw your email as well! It'll probably be a while though before I get back to proof games tbh.
Ah, ok, np! Was wondering if you had got the email or not, lol.
2:59 you could have forked the rook and the king, therefore creating the advantage
Stockfish would've just moved the king up to protect the rook tho
pov 4 elo
6:16
Mate in 1
Goes for a fork instead.
Chad move, show the machine your human superiority.
where is mate in 1?
@@reachdbd815 queen to a4
@@pradyuniyer7508 not m in 1 but a fork
@@pradyuniyer7508 he played qa4
Great video!
Really an awesome and one of the most difficult endgames. It's even harder than bishop and knight checkmate for me.
it is supposed to be harder than the bishop vs knight mate which is technically elementary
NO IT IS NOT
Two words: Derek Grimmell. When the future of civilization depends on someone solving a Queen vs. Rook problem, Derek will be on the black helicopter landing at the White House. He has a whole series of videos along with a ginormous ChessBase DB covering just this problem. I'm a crap chess player, but I've gotten obsessed with figuring this out and have spent literally hundreds of hours on it - and I haven't even finished all the Grimmell content. I found that I could (usually) solve the problem shown by Nelson, all the while muttering things like "No, form a Cage here. Ah, he's gone to a Distant Defense. Cover that checking square. Here you check adjacent to the rook's diagonal. Hah! I can form the Javelin - you are totally mine now bwahaha!" Look at the Grimmell videos, and consign yourself to the fact that Queen vs. Rook is between 10 and 100 times harder than King+Bishop+Knight vs. King.
Thanks!
hello aspiring chess player! I need your advice! I have downloaded the database of Derek Grimmel but it is a huge volume of positions and as you are a graduate on this I would like to ask you if I have to study all of them or I can study the most important of them.. thanks
@@nekp2034 If you want to cover all situations... then yeah, I think you have to cover them all. Derek seems to think that it only takes about 25 hours to go through everything, but it took me at least 10x that. Maybe he's talking GM level. Honestly, if you are simply interested in increasing your overall rating you are probably better spending your time on something else. In my limited experience I have never encountered a queen/rook endgame, but I have played several rook/pawn endgames, and learning the latter should help you win/draw more endgames.
@@francissmall3529 I know this endgame isn't practically much usefull but it fascinates me and I want to learn it. So what should I do? just to study the positions in a row?
@@nekp2034 That's what I did. They do tend to build on one another.
That was a satisfying checkmate.
Best way to beat Stockfish is to downclock her CPU.
not enough, even stockfish running in an old cellphone could beat a gm
I have an old Pentium 2 on this its easy to beat
this is one of my most haunting drawn endgames that kept me from a norm at a key moment in my life. was a humiliating draw. i'd looked down on beginner endgame books like silman's. but it's these tough beats that force you to learn things in a way that you'll never forget.
This is one of the most difficult end games. I tried playing my computer this end game a few years ago and could not win against a lone rook. The irony is if black has an extra pawn it is easier to beat him, because there are no more stalemate tricks!
No but then it will try to promote the pawn keeping rook behind and king with rook .so our king will be infronþ of the pawn and and queen will be hoping to fork something
maybe give stockfish queen and have a rook yourself and see how it wins
I love your videos
i think the camp mate king rule makes endgames more intresting (if kings goes to the last rank its a win)
but thats also fun
17:50 Black Rh6, white Qf7 or Qf3
(Blocking Rh7+ and threatening Qf8+ with fork on rook)
6:16, fork to capture the rook? Better to just go Qa4#.
nice going!
I like this video because so many focus too much on the Lucena and Philidor positions. And I'm sitting here thinking that I don't know how to force them in the first place. So its nice to know its actually not easy.
this ending fascinates me and i'd like to learn it even if it isn't practically much usefull.. is there any course for this?
2:08 you move your queen to c5
bruh fork
wont work black can move the king to f4 or e4
@@mrunknown4647 and he takes the rook
The 3 hardest endgames to play.
1) King and Queen vs King and Queen.
2) King and ONE rook vs King and ONE rook
3) King and TWO rook vs King and TWO Rook.
These positions are drawn assuming that the initial position is fair for both players
the actual hardest endgames:
1. king+horsey+bishop against king
2. kingn + 2 horseys (drawn assuming perfect moves and fair start, but possible to pull off if opponent makes inaccurate move)
please make a video on two knights Vs a pawn checkmate
Have you done pawn and rook vs queen?
you should also try this against a human who knows the basic ideas to defend this position
at 2:59 u could do Qg1 which will force the king to move and a free rook
Thanks a million, do you think that ,Now, you can give us some advice on how to defend with R against Q
your effort is greatly appreciated.
Could've moved queen to e3 to e4 forked the rook and King took rook but I don't know if it's auto matic win as its it could be insufficient pieces so yeah missed that
You needed to use more pins. In this endgame, the opponent usually has around 4 king moves and 12 rook moves to choose from. A pin forces your opponent to choose from about 75% fewer moves.
See the Study of Derek Grimmel (2008) about this endgame (Queen vs Rook). There are 21 positions: Philidor, diagonal1, diagonal2, diamond, bodycheck, Euwe_turnWhites, Euwe_turnBlack, corner defence, absolute 7th, 3rd rank defence, 4th rank defence(=harasment defence), 5th rank defence (by Grigoriev), ect.
2:07
He missed c 5 with the queen,it checks the king and if he moves it he takes the rook
Re5 defends this.
@@grawr09382 oh gosh, you're right. I was already calling him blind but it was me who wasn't seeing 😅
Thanks for sharing this. The queen vs rook endgame is indeed difficult to win.
3:43 actually if queen f4 check and rook blocks than queen to h2 is mate
4:15 why didn't he take the rook by the king??
Black king would have no spaces to move to, thus a stalemate
i once had this kind of endgame in a match and i had the rook
it ended in a draw
i never knew it was winnable
how do you use stockfish? what programs / software do you use?
i'm really new to this
Chess.com and lichess.org both have analysis features that use stockfish to help you analyze. For example: lichess.org/analysis
@@ChessVibesOfficial ok i see, thank you, what if i want to use the latest version of stockfish on windows?
In position King f6, Qb5, Rc7, Kc8 - if black goes Rc1. How can white block them in the same corner?
i have seen the mate in two in one of the positions in your 2 game it was when your Kc6 and then Qg8# oh yeah obviously stockfish would try to stop but the game will just be longer and you would win
My very first thought at @2:22 of the video is work it like all you have is pawns and a king and you're trying to work the king into a corner work the king into a corner with your queen and your king
If you move the queen to e4 here isnt it a fork? 2:59 if not please tell me why i cant figure it out
No because the king will move to h5 and will protect the rook
great, now time to do 2 bishops vs knight
I believe that 2 bishops vs knight is usually a draw because of the fifty move rule.
This video makes me feel much better about this endgame. Even a GM like Nelson finds Queen vs Rook difficult.
Tq man
Can you set it up as Stockfish vs. Stockfish?
How about do formal checkmate?
Bookmove/mistake at 0:25 Mistake at 0:34 Bookmove/ok move at 3:25
Reading comments and realizing .. Y'all know this dude is way better than most of us put together right... the Depth .. .. . Of how crazy people are. ';..;'
6:15 QA4+ is mate, better than fork
13:30 Soundtrack - "I think I can fight with Mike Tyson"
I was getting frustrated trying to figure out this endgame. Probably never will, but now I don't feel so bad.
Chess is just like a wheel, whenever you checked his king it will move and whenever you've been checked by his rook, your king will move
really good idea to have.
Endgame tablebase... Is maybe a good method from try to learn
6:16 why do you need to fork if it is mate queen a4?
Playing magnus is not very easy. It always knows the best move
18:08, he didnt move his rook to the h file cause queen d5 checks and you can figure it out from their
i ran out of moves in this position recently and in my low-rated opinion the #1 priority beyond royalty survival is to bully the other king to the edge of the board so that you can checkmate, rook be damned
Great!
At the start you could have like 3 Forks if im not dumb, but im not good at chess
Very nice
I thik at 4.05 minits on the video you have to move the king at f4, and the next move is checkmate
3.50 you should have placed the queen on E4... he had to move the king so you could take the rook...or he had to block with the rook, you could take the rook and his king couldnt take the queen or escape caus your king did protect him
4:11
JUST EAT ROOK!!!
Now lets do
How to try to draw as a rook in this endgame
At 2.20 mark doesnt qh7 win the rook? Or am I seeing my own things
Now: *Stockfish 16 laughing at this Stockfish 8
How can i play vs stockfish?
if he does 3rd rank defens your king cant come to square he want, then try another corner to push king into
2:15 move queen to c5 would've been a mate in 17
at 3:00 theres a fork with the queen moving one scare up
2:22 missed the pinned rook
Ouch, tricky one ! Who spend his time to learn how to defend like an engine anyway...? This endgame especially get recognized as one of the hardest one since computer era. It's fun to learn, but less than the old BN mate.
Study John Nunns chapter on the subject in Secrets of Pawnless Endings. Also, there is a course you can downlaod for free.
You had a fork near the beginning
6:16 is a4 checkmate or a1 check and take the rook with checkmate
how did you blunder???
At 11:49 if you shimmy down the a,b file using a series of checks from the queen you will eventually fork the rook-lights out.
Dude 17:00 I totally called it!
It feels good to be learning , I wish I had friends that played chess.
The rook will block if you try that
Whats the name of the chess game is it okay in mobile
at 3:02 would ke4 been a good move?
What is the name of the book?
At 3:47 you couldve just moved the queen to e4 forking the rook and the king. If the rook moved infront of the queen you couldve simply taken it and won
The black king can move on h3 if you do that.
2:09 Nelson move your queen to c5 forking rook and king
3:04 Qe4+ fork? Just missed, or is there another reason I am a dodo?
Ah so you can just input any position by going through each row from top to bottom with number = amount of empty squares, upper-case letters = white pieces, lower-case letters = black pieces? That's cool
great....it's all day i'm trying.....it's no joke.......
now i know how to play this
Need to know how checkmate youre opponent with queen vs rook
Nice
at 19:10 Kd5 would actually reach that critical position, but with Black to move instead of White.
2.20 queen to h7 wins rook
@@34Zero white's king is in check in that position at 2:20 so white doesn't have time to play Qh7.
at 6:14 you have mate in 1 after ka6, I’m sure this is for learning purposes, I just found it amusing