This loc is well designed and build. My loco's have flange wipers and they wear out in time. I use a tiny bit of graphite to "grease" and improve contact. And to keep the rails in top condition I use the same 'graphite' method. It works. Thanks for sharing. Greetings from France
Hi Cam, as a old modeller and electrician,may I give a suggestion? Stay away from rubbing alcohol on any part you want conductivity, it contains some water and will hinder electrical contact long term. AS for track throw away your track rubber if you use one as it destroys the track surface, I haven't used one in 2o yrs and clean my track with Innox, a spray similar to WD-40 only better. As for the wheel bearings, use a plastic compatible oil NOT ATF, it is made for transmissions not electrical circuits! A "clean" looking surface does not always mean a conductive surface, all my rails have a light coating and will show a line on a rag but I never have stalling problems. I used alcohol on my temporary layout years ago and locos started stalling more and more, yet the track was spotless! Once I stopped using it and went to Innox, the problems stopped. I work in Signalling and all our contacts in switch machines and grade crossing mechs are sprayed with a little Innox to help with conductivity and to help stop corrosion. I'd also try oil on the axels instead of bending the side frames as it is the axel that provides the contact and not the flat surface of the wheel . Your are right about soldering all the pick up wires though I haven't done the truck pick ups on mine. Not being a smart A## but just sharing what I've learnt in 40 yrs of model railroading..LOL Cheers Gregg.
Thanks for the tips Gregg! I really appreciate it. You definitely know more on the subject than I do, and I'm glad you told me about the alcohol! I've wondered sometimes about that because just like you said, after cleaning track or wheels, electrical pickup almost gets worse. I think it also kills adhesion in the short term. I'm going to get some Innox now and try that out. My hypothesis behind this project was that the slight bend would increase the probability that at any given point a wheel would make contact with the pickup. I discovered there was a lot of crap at the axle points (which I of course cleaned out), but my hope was that in the event an axle point was compromised at any given time, this would compensate (I guess sort of like a wheel wiper on passenger cars). It probably doesn't help that the capacitor on the decoder isn't forgiving at all, but I wanted to try something other than just bypassing the problem with a Keep-Alive, something I still might do. Again, I honestly appreciate the tips because that's the whole reason I make videos. There's a community and it helps me learn and grow as a modeler. So hopefully it doesn't seem as if I'm passing myself off as an expert. However, seeing as you actually are an expert in this area, would you mind if I summarized your suggestions in the video description? I'll put your channel name with it of course. That way people watching this will also see your advice. Thanks! -Cam
You're welcome Cam! I learn something every day myself.Some rubbing alcohol is 30% water!! Using a proper oil such as Labelle on the axel shafts will be all you need to get good pickup, the wheelsets constantly move from side to side as they traverse turnouts and curves and doing so actually polish the brass strip (bearings) . If you use the wrong oil or over lubricate this can cause a build up but not normally. I never have to clean wheels on locos or freight cars and my train room is not air conditioned. In my opinion, keep alives are a substitute for bad track or wiring, I have a Atlas decoder with no cap at all and it runs fine? The thing with Innox is that it is made not to attract dirt, as some track cleaner fluids do, you will get a little black on a rag but it is not a problem, remember we want conductivity, not a sterile rail! If you wan't to see this in a vdeo, you can watch part 2 of "Talking Turnouts and Track" on my channel and feel free to put my points in your video, happy to help as stalling locos drives me crazy..LOL I can almost guarantee that if you stop with the alcohol and try Innox,or similar (only a little bit here and there) your problem will disappear? Let me know how you go!! Take care and Cheers. Gregg.
Glad to hear it! I know this isn't exactly most peoples' recommended method, but sometimes, nothing else works. This is a nice last-ditch effort that if done well, won't create any future issues. -Cam
I have about thirty 70s-80s blue box Athearn DC locomotives. One problem a few have is for some reason a few are more efficient than the others. They'll draw 200ma instead of the normal 400ma. Might be some have stronger magnets or freer drive trains. This becomes a problem when running an MU consist. The gears will bind on the slower units or excessive wheel slip on the faster (or lighter) units. To correct it I installed a resistor on the faster units to balance the speed. This also corrected the wheel slippage. A value around 2-3 ohms at 2 watts seem to work quit well.
Instead of bending and distorting the contact bars on the side frames cut the Katy bronze coupler springs and place them on the axle ends. this will give a positive electrical and cleaning action while the wheels are turning and not stop the end play of the wheels.
See the comments on this page. The Largest are the Katy O gauge coupler box springs and you may have to cut them in half to fit between the side frame and wheeel.@@joshfreund6008
Had same type of issue on one locomotive, I noticed the pickup wires on the pickup where not soldered they had a jacket type cover connector , removed that and soldered the wire. Much better. Thanks for posting. Darick
Awesome...thx u for takin the time to show this...just gettin back into trains after 17 yrs of racin cars.. i was a dc guy.. wasnt sure about this dcc stuff . Its all weird. Have two new locos. 1. Intermountain 1. Walthers. Intermountain does exactly wat ur problem is. Was actually thinking of sending it to them to fix. Worst part is layouts not even a month old so i know track is clean and loco has not even an hr on it so it has clean wheels. Wasnt sure wats going on til walther got here and ran fine. So again. Thx u for this lil tip.....
Glad this was of some help! The other locomotive that I referenced a couple of times in the video was an InterMountain unit. That was the first time I had tried this trick, and since then the locomotive has run flawlessly. I think what may have happened for me is that since my old layout had 18" radius curves, which is pretty tight for big 6-axle power, that caused the contact pads to slowly press away from the wheels. Something else that I might try is Automatic Transmission Fluid. I saw an article that suggested applying it to the rails because it improves conductivity. But I think if your track has sufficient power and the wheel are clean, it would probably help just as much to put a drop of ATF between the axle points and the copper contact pad. -Cam
On the old blue box locos I used to take them all apart, clean any plastic spurs and and sand any rough parts and lube it back up. Worked pretty good for then.
I agree wholeheartedly with Greg. I used to use the bright boy track cleaners from walthers and have tried just about everything else. The only thing that's worked for me so far is one of the TMX track cleaning tank cars. They are a little pricey, but my jaw dropped when I saw how much grime I got off the track. The problem with track cleaners, oil, and regular track cleaning is it leaves behind a layer of gunk. Some of the processes will clean it, but it's only temporary. The oils and stuff actually leave behind a gunk layer that eventually attracts more dirt. I've only had a few problems since I got the car, but those are from my not very good track work and wiring.
I rarely suffer issues with my trains due to just running standard DC. The DCC trains are great, but I'm not willing to shell out a ton of money on the newer generations of trains. Especially if something goes faulty. I rarely ever have any issues with what i run. Maybe just a wheel/flange polishing here and there, but i never had any electrical issues otherwise.
Just watched this tip and just a thought before adding extra tension to the side pads add a dab of electrolytic grease or even a micro dab of transmission fluid to each axle shaft. The down side to what you did is the axles need a bit of plan for tracking purposes. Just an idea to try before bending the pickup rails!
Thanks! And it's really not bad at all. A while ago I had trouble opening this locomotive up because Athearn put a screw connecting the shell to the frame right by the underside of the fuel tank. Usually it's enough to just take the coupler boxes out. I didn't really tear this one apart all the way for this video, but the first time I tried to fix this problem I removed absolutely everything. I literally stripped it to the frame so that I had the fuel tank, trucks, motor, drive shafts, circuitry, and shell all separated. I still couldn't figure it out. -Cam
Very interesting. The first and second gen Athearn SD70ACe's are plagued with this issue. Getting them to work smoothly was quite difficult even with an ESU Loksound decoder, plus the wheels were cleaned thoroughly. What you have done made a lot of sense and I will be implementing this fix. Shane's suggestion I will also implement as well to reduce the chances of derailment. ESU has their own version of keep alive but it is tricky to install, there are no clear instructions in installing them.
Yeah, these locomotives are horribly sensitive to track imperfections. Also, maybe you've seen this site, but if you look up "SBS4DCC loksound keep alive", the first webpage should have clear instructions and photos of installing a TCS KA on a Loksound decoder. I haven't yet done this, but I was planning on it. -Cam
I'll bet you what happened prior is that the wheels were floating to a point on the straights where they would eventually all not make contact (meaning RIGHT in the center between the contact strips on the trucks). which is why bending the contacts works out. And also why the issue was somewhat hit or miss as it required all of the wheels to be precisely in the middle to lose contact. If you run into derailment issues I would suggest bending the outboard contacts flatter to offer more articulation. Where you could leave the center wheels pressed in as the outers will do the moving.
Yeah exactly. Someone else commented that it's the axles which make the contact, implying that bending the contacts isn't necessary. That is true, and I completely understood that at the time of making this video. However, there are some models (the early Athearn SD70ACes especially) that have truck pickup problems for whatever reason. Sometimes the sideframes are warped or the gearboxes don't sit right. I don't know what it is here, but the axles only make contact when the hole they are slotted into is weighing down on them. At this small scale, even the smallest imperfections make a difference. So, similar to what you said, I think the problem here is that there are places on the track where the locomotive tips from side to side just slightly, creating moments when none of the axles on one side are touching the contacts. Pushing the contacts in to work as wipers creates a more reliable and larger contact area. In most models, this wouldn't be necessary, but this Soundtraxx decoder also doesn't have a strong capacitor in it, making the locomotives tolerance for conductivity loss almost 0. -Cam
Hi Cam - I enjoyed watching your video. It's a shame that a reasonably new locomotive would have such sloppy contacts at the pick-up point, but I have seen this before, especially with Athearn locomotives (not sure who the manufacturer of your loco is). Anyway, good information and a quick fix for those having this issue. Thanks!! Mike
Thanks, Mike! I totally agree. I got this Athearn unit in 2011 and within a year or two it just started to cut out randomly even with frequent cleaning. Part of it might be that the capacitor on the Soundtraxx board isn't very forgiving. But either way I would expect better. Since then, I think these Athearn Genesis units have really improved. -Cam
You're just buying time. Do what you did. Clean it. Then add automotive bulb grease. It's a conductive grease that you put on your contacts to prevent oxidation of the contacts.
Use De Oxit to clean the contacts not denatured alcohol. De Oxit is used for electrical contacts on radios and circuit boards etc. to clean any oxidation. It’s safe for all electrical components and works 100% better.
Get a Keep-alive - period. I've been using them for 6 years, and have NEVER had anything stall - including a little 0-4-0 switcher, even in dead frog turnouts!!! 👍👍😊 ~ Carmine
I am new to the hobby and some model railroaders might think I don't know much but I use vodka to clean my rails and wheels. I've never used rubbing alcohol due to the fact that it contains mostly water. So if water wont remove oily residues, why would you use a water based product? In 2 years I've cleaned all my locomotive wheels and contacts only twice but the rails get a vodka rubdown once a month.
Where the wheel goes into the pickup plate hole clean and lube with a smear of dielectric grease . This will aid in lube keeps the axle tip from grooving and the hole from egging out ,plus it holds on and conducts,keeps the copper looking like copper without tarnish . The conductive lube on the market is good ,but does not last nearly as long and will sling getting on things that you don't want it on like the wheels. Thanks for sharing and I you give it a try.
I was bothered a little bit about these locos being notorious for bad pickup as I just bought an Athearn UP SD70ACe loco. It's on a 3' test track and powered by an MRC Prodigy Advanced2 system. Started it for the first time yesterday and I set the speed at the lowest setting and it creeped forward without any jerkiness or stalling. Is it possible that this Genesis engine I have won't or shouldn't have the problems you mentioned? It's a 2020 release, "Spirit of the Union Pacific" and "Salute to the Troops. Nice vid, BTW.
This was very helpful, thank you!! Had the same problem with some New Genesis locos from Athearn and could not figure out what was going on. Found in one of them they did not attach a wire from the trucks and another had the same problem as yours. I wonder if they do "Quality Control Checks" at the places these are assembled? They need to run them before they package and ship such pricey items!! Thanks for the video and information!! D. Muse
I'm glad! And it definitely seems that Athearn has a lot of problems with trucks. I also had an InterMountain unit where one of the pickup wires came undone. That was after I had it for a bit, but you'd think that wouldn't be something that just comes undone. -Cam
Wouldn't this idea restrict the side to side movement of the wheel sets and cause premature wearing of the contact strip? Have you tried conductive a lubricant at the bearings instead?
Definitely. I was careful to not put too much of a bend so that the truck didn't become too rigid. There's sort of a sweet spot. But with the locomotives I've dealt with, that contact strip is still pretty flexible, so even when going through a curve it'll provide a bit of resistance but not so much that the trucks jump the track. It also helps to have pretty solid trackwork. And I like the conductive lubricant idea. I was just talking to someone about maybe using Automatic Transmission Fluid at the contact points. I remember reading an article about putting ATF on the rails, but I think it would work well in the trucks too. -Cam
Hi Cam, I have a bottle of Ariso-Electralube p/n CRE-29602, seems like a synthetic oil of some kind with finely ground carbon in it, I also have a jar of "NO-OX-ID "A SPECIAL", Sanchem Inc, Chicago, IL a type of grease that is conductive and an anti-oxidant as well. The use of ATF is a possibility, so no shortage of lubes to experiment with. Interesting video though, thanks for publishing it.
All the money that gets spent on these high end locomotives and they still need major work. I have a Triang 1957 Transcontinental diesel on my layout and has run fine for over half a century with minimum service.
Will work until the stresses equalize. Peco have a conductive lubricant that is worth researching; it might work. I did not say it would work, I just said worth researching. Your problem might be insulating lubricant, as happened to me once. I oiled a perfectly good loco, and it became many times worse than your loco. The oil was cleaned out and replaced with something else - problem solved. Worth research.
@@railfan220 Thanks, I'm looking for six wheel trucks that have narrow gear boxes. I want to narrow the axle for narrow TT guage. Hard part is find the parts without buying a brand new engine at full price.
Lets put it this way. for what you pay for engines for Athearn this an out rage and my answer is 20 years ago stopped buying them. PS by a keep alive from Sound trax and it will solve your problem outer wise start buying Engines form Atlas Kato and Inter mountain they do have the issue.
Thanks for the input. I totally agree. The trouble isn't worth the time sometimes (or always), and with so many alternatives out there, I don't know why I bother. I did wind up just getting a keep alive, but I haven't installed it yet because I plan on putting an ESU decoder in it as well. InterMountain is my go-to brand, so I can't wait for their BNSF DASH 9s to come out. Thanks for the comment! -Cam
Gary A agreed. I think Athearn Genesis has gotten a lot more reliable, but you can’t beat Scaletrains. These first run ACes had some issues with the trucks, so I finally just replaced them. Works beautifully now.
Oh Hell no. I'll be damn if I spend good $$$ on a locamotive and will have too take it apart and do that. I just got back into the hobby and DCC and its getting to technical and wanting to be exactly like "Prototype ".
This loc is well designed and build. My loco's have flange wipers and they wear out in time. I use a tiny bit of graphite to "grease" and improve contact. And to keep the rails in top condition I use the same 'graphite' method. It works. Thanks for sharing. Greetings from France
Hi Cam, as a old modeller and electrician,may I give a suggestion? Stay away from rubbing alcohol on any part you want conductivity, it contains some water and will hinder electrical contact long term. AS for track throw away your track rubber if you use one as it destroys the track surface, I haven't used one in 2o yrs and clean my track with Innox, a spray similar to WD-40 only better. As for the wheel bearings, use a plastic compatible oil NOT ATF, it is made for transmissions not electrical circuits! A "clean" looking surface does not always mean a conductive surface, all my rails have a light coating and will show a line on a rag but I never have stalling problems. I used alcohol on my temporary layout years ago and locos started stalling more and more, yet the track was spotless! Once I stopped using it and went to Innox, the problems stopped. I work in Signalling and all our contacts in switch machines and grade crossing mechs are sprayed with a little Innox to help with conductivity and to help stop corrosion. I'd also try oil on the axels instead of bending the side frames as it is the axel that provides the contact and not the flat surface of the wheel . Your are right about soldering all the pick up wires though I haven't done the truck pick ups on mine.
Not being a smart A## but just sharing what I've learnt in 40 yrs of model railroading..LOL
Cheers Gregg.
Thanks for the tips Gregg! I really appreciate it. You definitely know more on the subject than I do, and I'm glad you told me about the alcohol! I've wondered sometimes about that because just like you said, after cleaning track or wheels, electrical pickup almost gets worse. I think it also kills adhesion in the short term. I'm going to get some Innox now and try that out. My hypothesis behind this project was that the slight bend would increase the probability that at any given point a wheel would make contact with the pickup. I discovered there was a lot of crap at the axle points (which I of course cleaned out), but my hope was that in the event an axle point was compromised at any given time, this would compensate (I guess sort of like a wheel wiper on passenger cars). It probably doesn't help that the capacitor on the decoder isn't forgiving at all, but I wanted to try something other than just bypassing the problem with a Keep-Alive, something I still might do. Again, I honestly appreciate the tips because that's the whole reason I make videos. There's a community and it helps me learn and grow as a modeler. So hopefully it doesn't seem as if I'm passing myself off as an expert.
However, seeing as you actually are an expert in this area, would you mind if I summarized your suggestions in the video description? I'll put your channel name with it of course. That way people watching this will also see your advice.
Thanks!
-Cam
You're welcome Cam! I learn something every day myself.Some rubbing alcohol is 30% water!! Using a proper oil such as Labelle on the axel shafts will be all you need to get good pickup, the wheelsets constantly move from side to side as they traverse turnouts and curves and doing so actually polish the brass strip (bearings) . If you use the wrong oil or over lubricate this can cause a build up but not normally. I never have to clean wheels on locos or freight cars and my train room is not air conditioned. In my opinion, keep alives are a substitute for bad track or wiring, I have a Atlas decoder with no cap at all and it runs fine? The thing with Innox is that it is made not to attract dirt, as some track cleaner fluids do, you will get a little black on a rag but it is not a problem, remember we want conductivity, not a sterile rail! If you wan't to see this in a vdeo, you can watch part 2 of "Talking Turnouts and Track" on my channel and feel free to put my points in your video, happy to help as stalling locos drives me crazy..LOL I can almost guarantee that if you stop with the alcohol and try Innox,or similar (only a little bit here and there) your problem will disappear?
Let me know how you go!! Take care and Cheers.
Gregg.
P.S...as for adhesion, you will loose a bit but thats a excuse to put another loco on a train..LOL
Gregg.
Haha, exactly! I'll definitely look at that video. Thanks, Gregg!
-Cam
Fishplate, where do you purchase Innox?
I just used this method to tune up an old Walthers GP that I was about to get rid of. Now it runs smoothly. Thanks for posting this video!
Glad to hear it! I know this isn't exactly most peoples' recommended method, but sometimes, nothing else works. This is a nice last-ditch effort that if done well, won't create any future issues.
-Cam
Another thing you can use is small dab of dielectric grease. Available at any local auto store. Its made for current.
I have about thirty 70s-80s blue box Athearn DC locomotives. One problem a few have is for some reason a few are more efficient than the others. They'll draw 200ma instead of the normal 400ma. Might be some have stronger magnets or freer drive trains. This becomes a problem when running an MU consist. The gears will bind on the slower units or excessive wheel slip on the faster (or lighter) units. To correct it I installed a resistor on the faster units to balance the speed. This also corrected the wheel slippage. A value around 2-3 ohms at 2 watts seem to work quit well.
Instead of bending and distorting the contact bars on the side frames cut the Katy bronze coupler springs and place them on the axle ends. this will give a positive electrical and cleaning action while the wheels are turning and not stop the end play of the wheels.
What are "Katy bronze coupler springs"?
You buy them from a hobby supply. They are used in their knuckle couplers. (all gauges)@@jasondix3202
Did you use the springs from a larger scale, i.find tge springs.dont fit on tge axles
See the comments on this page. The Largest are the Katy O gauge coupler box springs and you may have to cut them in half to fit between the side frame and wheeel.@@joshfreund6008
EVERY loco in my roster has a Keep Alive. This has solved all track problems.
Had same type of issue on one locomotive, I noticed the pickup wires on the pickup where not soldered they had a jacket type cover connector , removed that and soldered the wire. Much better. Thanks for posting. Darick
Thanks for commenting! It's annoying when that stuff happens because for the most part it's invisible.
-Cam
Awesome...thx u for takin the time to show this...just gettin back into trains after 17 yrs of racin cars.. i was a dc guy.. wasnt sure about this dcc stuff . Its all weird. Have two new locos. 1. Intermountain 1. Walthers. Intermountain does exactly wat ur problem is. Was actually thinking of sending it to them to fix. Worst part is layouts not even a month old so i know track is clean and loco has not even an hr on it so it has clean wheels. Wasnt sure wats going on til walther got here and ran fine. So again. Thx u for this lil tip.....
Glad this was of some help! The other locomotive that I referenced a couple of times in the video was an InterMountain unit. That was the first time I had tried this trick, and since then the locomotive has run flawlessly. I think what may have happened for me is that since my old layout had 18" radius curves, which is pretty tight for big 6-axle power, that caused the contact pads to slowly press away from the wheels. Something else that I might try is Automatic Transmission Fluid. I saw an article that suggested applying it to the rails because it improves conductivity. But I think if your track has sufficient power and the wheel are clean, it would probably help just as much to put a drop of ATF between the axle points and the copper contact pad.
-Cam
On the old blue box locos I used to take them all apart, clean any plastic spurs and and sand any rough parts and lube it back up. Worked pretty good for then.
I agree wholeheartedly with Greg. I used to use the bright boy track cleaners from walthers and have tried just about everything else. The only thing that's worked for me so far is one of the TMX track cleaning tank cars. They are a little pricey, but my jaw dropped when I saw how much grime I got off the track. The problem with track cleaners, oil, and regular track cleaning is it leaves behind a layer of gunk. Some of the processes will clean it, but it's only temporary. The oils and stuff actually leave behind a gunk layer that eventually attracts more dirt. I've only had a few problems since I got the car, but those are from my not very good track work and wiring.
Goose in The Caboose Productions What do you use in your track cleaning car?
I rarely suffer issues with my trains due to just running standard DC. The DCC trains are great, but I'm not willing to shell out a ton of money on the newer generations of trains. Especially if something goes faulty. I rarely ever have any issues with what i run. Maybe just a wheel/flange polishing here and there, but i never had any electrical issues otherwise.
That was a great tip for cleaning the contact points. It's no surprise how a little maintenance can improve the loco's operation.
So true! Thanks for watching.
-Cam
Very helpful! thank you for sharing! :)
Never thought I’d see you in the comments of a recommendation. Love your vids BTW. I might be sending some fan mail soon so be on the lookout!
@SMT Mainline we meet in another comment section once more. 😂
@@trainstorm1225 Haha, that's funny.
y
Just watched this tip and just a thought before adding extra tension to the side pads add a dab of electrolytic grease or even a micro dab of transmission fluid to each axle shaft. The down side to what you did is the axles need a bit of plan for tracking purposes. Just an idea to try before bending the pickup rails!
this is my favorite maintenance repair
Also use and electrical grease like a 12v light bulb grease. It transfers electric through it for good contact
Great Idea, I have yet to pull one apart all the way like that, one of these days, I will build up the confidence.
Thanks! And it's really not bad at all. A while ago I had trouble opening this locomotive up because Athearn put a screw connecting the shell to the frame right by the underside of the fuel tank. Usually it's enough to just take the coupler boxes out.
I didn't really tear this one apart all the way for this video, but the first time I tried to fix this problem I removed absolutely everything. I literally stripped it to the frame so that I had the fuel tank, trucks, motor, drive shafts, circuitry, and shell all separated. I still couldn't figure it out.
-Cam
Very interesting. The first and second gen Athearn SD70ACe's are plagued with this issue. Getting them to work smoothly was quite difficult even with an ESU Loksound decoder, plus the wheels were cleaned thoroughly. What you have done made a lot of sense and I will be implementing this fix. Shane's suggestion I will also implement as well to reduce the chances of derailment. ESU has their own version of keep alive but it is tricky to install, there are no clear instructions in installing them.
Yeah, these locomotives are horribly sensitive to track imperfections. Also, maybe you've seen this site, but if you look up "SBS4DCC loksound keep alive", the first webpage should have clear instructions and photos of installing a TCS KA on a Loksound decoder. I haven't yet done this, but I was planning on it.
-Cam
I'll bet you what happened prior is that the wheels were floating to a point on the straights where they would eventually all not make contact (meaning RIGHT in the center between the contact strips on the trucks). which is why bending the contacts works out. And also why the issue was somewhat hit or miss as it required all of the wheels to be precisely in the middle to lose contact. If you run into derailment issues I would suggest bending the outboard contacts flatter to offer more articulation. Where you could leave the center wheels pressed in as the outers will do the moving.
Yeah exactly. Someone else commented that it's the axles which make the contact, implying that bending the contacts isn't necessary. That is true, and I completely understood that at the time of making this video. However, there are some models (the early Athearn SD70ACes especially) that have truck pickup problems for whatever reason. Sometimes the sideframes are warped or the gearboxes don't sit right. I don't know what it is here, but the axles only make contact when the hole they are slotted into is weighing down on them. At this small scale, even the smallest imperfections make a difference. So, similar to what you said, I think the problem here is that there are places on the track where the locomotive tips from side to side just slightly, creating moments when none of the axles on one side are touching the contacts. Pushing the contacts in to work as wipers creates a more reliable and larger contact area. In most models, this wouldn't be necessary, but this Soundtraxx decoder also doesn't have a strong capacitor in it, making the locomotives tolerance for conductivity loss almost 0.
-Cam
Used this method on my MTH HO SD70ACe and it really helped! Thanks!
Nice spot to take it apart
Thanks for the video, and Thanks for the tips, going to DCC in the near future. Ed
I'm glad it was useful! And DCC has been great. It really adds to the realism. Have fun!
-Cam
Thank you for posting! That is a great suggestion, especially for a beginner like myself.
James
Thanks for watching! It might not always do the trick, but for me it has.
-Cam
Great tip and something overlooked a lot
For sure! It was something I overlooked until a bit ago. Thanks for watching!
-Cam
Hi Cam - I enjoyed watching your video. It's a shame that a reasonably new locomotive would have such sloppy contacts at the pick-up point, but I have seen this before, especially with Athearn locomotives (not sure who the manufacturer of your loco is). Anyway, good information and a quick fix for those having this issue. Thanks!! Mike
Thanks, Mike! I totally agree. I got this Athearn unit in 2011 and within a year or two it just started to cut out randomly even with frequent cleaning. Part of it might be that the capacitor on the Soundtraxx board isn't very forgiving. But either way I would expect better. Since then, I think these Athearn Genesis units have really improved.
-Cam
You're just buying time. Do what you did. Clean it. Then add automotive bulb grease. It's a conductive grease that you put on your contacts to prevent oxidation of the contacts.
Use De Oxit to clean the contacts not denatured alcohol. De Oxit is used for electrical contacts on radios and circuit boards etc. to clean any oxidation. It’s safe for all electrical components and works 100% better.
Get a Keep-alive - period.
I've been using them for 6 years, and have NEVER had anything stall - including a little 0-4-0 switcher, even in dead frog turnouts!!! 👍👍😊
~ Carmine
You did a great job explaining the how to do ...I learned a lot ...Are you a school teacher ..it seems..great job..
I am new to the hobby and some model railroaders might think I don't know much but I use vodka to clean my rails and wheels. I've never used rubbing alcohol due to the fact that it contains mostly water. So if water wont remove oily residues, why would you use a water based product? In 2 years I've cleaned all my locomotive wheels and contacts only twice but the rails get a vodka rubdown once a month.
What do you use to rub it down
Lol, I thought I was the only one that did the hardwire mod. Makes a world of difference, doesn't it?
Nice tip! Thanks for posting! - Brian
Thanks for watching!
-Cam
I have this problem too thank you so much for this video!
Helped me a lot. Thanks.
Where the wheel goes into the pickup plate hole clean and lube with a smear of dielectric grease . This will aid in lube keeps the axle tip from grooving and the hole from egging out ,plus it holds on and conducts,keeps the copper looking like copper without tarnish . The conductive lube on the market is good ,but does not last nearly as long and will sling getting on things that you don't want it on like the wheels. Thanks for sharing and I you give it a try.
Man that helps I just bout 2 sd40s it works for me thanks
Great information, thanks for the video.
nice tip and trick,, I bet it helps out others a lot,, thanks for sharing
Thanks! I hope it does.
-Cam
I was bothered a little bit about these locos being notorious for bad pickup as I just bought an Athearn UP SD70ACe loco. It's on a 3' test track and powered by an MRC Prodigy Advanced2 system. Started it for the first time yesterday and I set the speed at the lowest setting and it creeped forward without any jerkiness or stalling. Is it possible that this Genesis engine I have won't or shouldn't have the problems you mentioned? It's a 2020 release, "Spirit of the Union Pacific" and "Salute to the Troops. Nice vid, BTW.
Slower video on the disassembly process would be nice. Great ideas here though.
I got one up
My SD70 has a problem with crawling at low speeds and has great performance at speed, anyway on how i can fix this?
This was very helpful, thank you!! Had the same problem with some New Genesis locos from Athearn and could not figure out what was going on. Found in one of them they did not attach a wire from the trucks and another had the same problem as yours. I wonder if they do "Quality Control Checks" at the places these are assembled? They need to run them before they package and ship such pricey items!! Thanks for the video and information!! D. Muse
I'm glad! And it definitely seems that Athearn has a lot of problems with trucks. I also had an InterMountain unit where one of the pickup wires came undone. That was after I had it for a bit, but you'd think that wouldn't be something that just comes undone.
-Cam
So what else did you "go ahead" and do ?
What about Adding some appropriate washers ?
Cool, neat tip!
Thanks!
-Cam
Use denatured achcohol to ckeant the wheels and the track to prevent oxidation!
Wouldn't this idea restrict the side to side movement of the wheel sets and cause premature wearing of the contact strip? Have you tried conductive a lubricant at the bearings instead?
Definitely. I was careful to not put too much of a bend so that the truck didn't become too rigid. There's sort of a sweet spot. But with the locomotives I've dealt with, that contact strip is still pretty flexible, so even when going through a curve it'll provide a bit of resistance but not so much that the trucks jump the track. It also helps to have pretty solid trackwork. And I like the conductive lubricant idea. I was just talking to someone about maybe using Automatic Transmission Fluid at the contact points. I remember reading an article about putting ATF on the rails, but I think it would work well in the trucks too.
-Cam
Hi Cam,
I have a bottle of Ariso-Electralube p/n CRE-29602, seems like a synthetic oil of some kind with finely ground carbon in it, I also have a jar of "NO-OX-ID "A SPECIAL", Sanchem Inc, Chicago, IL a type of grease that is conductive and an anti-oxidant as well. The use of ATF is a possibility, so no shortage of lubes to experiment with.
Interesting video though, thanks for publishing it.
And thanks for sharing what you use. I'll have to try that!
-Cam
Your turns are exceptionally wide, I wouldn't worry about articulation issues.
I have seen the prototype for this locomotive in person
All the money that gets spent on these high end locomotives and they still need major work. I have a Triang 1957 Transcontinental diesel on my layout and has run fine for over half a century with minimum service.
thanks cam, very helpful.
No problem! Glad you think so.
-Cam
If your watching this take you bottom plate off before you try to remove the side frames or you will break them like he did
Yes, keep alive will work. Having enough track wire drops to the bus will help too.
Will work until the stresses equalize. Peco have a conductive lubricant that is worth researching; it might work. I did not say it would work, I just said worth researching. Your problem might be insulating lubricant, as happened to me once. I oiled a perfectly good loco, and it became many times worse than your loco. The oil was cleaned out and replaced with something else - problem solved. Worth research.
What company made this engine?
This is an Athearn Genesis model.
-Cam
@@railfan220 Thanks, I'm looking for six wheel trucks that have narrow gear boxes. I want to narrow the axle for narrow TT guage. Hard part is find the parts without buying a brand new engine at full price.
Actually, it probably was the cleaning of all of the electrical contacts...
Top loco nice likes 👍
Lets put it this way. for what you pay for engines for Athearn this an out rage and my answer is 20 years ago stopped buying them. PS by a keep alive from Sound trax and it will solve your problem outer wise start buying Engines form Atlas Kato and Inter mountain they do have the issue.
Thanks for the input. I totally agree. The trouble isn't worth the time sometimes (or always), and with so many alternatives out there, I don't know why I bother. I did wind up just getting a keep alive, but I haven't installed it yet because I plan on putting an ESU decoder in it as well. InterMountain is my go-to brand, so I can't wait for their BNSF DASH 9s to come out. Thanks for the comment!
-Cam
Have one more set of A and B Genies Units to fix and that is the end of the story. Stop buying Athearn end of the 20th century.
Is pretty bad that a $150 scaletrains operator with sound will out perform a $260 athearn genesis with sound straight out of the box
Gary A agreed. I think Athearn Genesis has gotten a lot more reliable, but you can’t beat Scaletrains. These first run ACes had some issues with the trucks, so I finally just replaced them. Works beautifully now.
I don’t see a capacitor on your decoder
Oh Hell no. I'll be damn if I spend good $$$ on a locamotive and will have too take it apart and do that. I just got back into the hobby and DCC and its getting to technical and wanting to be exactly like "Prototype ".
Without good electrical contact your motor has nothing
Why is it that Americans don't enunciate the 'l' in solder? It may as well be spelt 'soder'.
1:20 you say after the fix you guarantee it won’t happen. Then after the fix you say you can’t be sure if it’s fixed. Make your mind up ffs
Thats only because they put in too much that electronic junk.
L