I've stopped tipping because 1. 95% of the time the service is not great and 2. they keep increasing their prices I rarely go out to eat because I can cook better, cheaper food at home.
20 years ago I worked as a waiter for a few months. The pay was just over 2 bucks an hour and I had to input all the tips I got into the computer so the gov can tax it. Because of that my 2/hour disappeared. I also had to share my tips with the folks in the kitchen and we were told to fold napkins for 15 minutes AFTER clocking out. Then there are issues like when someone in the kitchen screws up and I get punished with no tips. The entire restaurant culture in the US is scummy as hell.
thats why I went to the trades. I have never had job piss me off as much as waiting tables. we pay them to work there and have to thank them for it! Slavery is less humiliating than that job!
You were told to log tips.... that'd more than my boss did. I was allowed to wait one table, then had to bus anything else while doing kitchen work. I was paid waitress wages. Had I not been in high-school, with one other job opportunity just as bad, I wouldn't have spent three years there. I quit senior year because I was tired of working 20+ hours a week on top of school for less than $2 an hour. Boss also let the other servers steal tips off tge tables I tended. She tried to make me work all her tables, but the boss put a stop to that because I was the only one keeping the back in order... I wouldn't work food service unless I owned the place. And I'd run a no tipping establishment, because you should pay your employees properly.
Lie. Never ever be truthful about your tips. Management wants to force you to share? Keep at least half if possible before reporting. The business is scummy, so do what you have to do to get ahead
Sounds like where you were working was taking you for a ride. if your paying the taxes on the tips, you dont share those with the house. Also what you are describing is illegal in most states.
I doubt that's a 'gotcha'. I think the restaurant knows customers will see it like that, so essentially they're both making tips mandatory, as well as impossible for staff to sneak by management
My wife and I were skiing in Palisades Tahoe a few weeks ago and there is a pizza restaurant in the village that we ate it. There was a sign saying that all take-out orders were assessed a 20% fee (I think it was 20% anyway) for some reason about paying their staff, blah blah blah. My wife wanted to get takeout and I was like "no way. I am going to sit here and be served and then have the choice over how much I want to tip instead". Then we got the bill and the "suggested" tips were 20%, 22% and 25%. Seriously? The bottom "suggested" tip is 20%? The entire tipping industry is out of control.
That is low. We went to a place year and a half a go and the fees were 50, 100, 150, 200% and super small no tip and other option. It was a tourist trap place. Subway If I recall last month was the same as what you said. I have seen a chinese buffet do 20 30 40 50%. We have nearly been stuck with tips by accident and now have to start keeping an eye out. Its as bad as those charity things they used to do.
@@kameljoe21 1 of the reason why sandwich shops were popular was because you did NOT have to tip. Keep It Simple Salty. We desire grub, not a headache.
@@arfriedman4577 It does not matter how many people there are. You do not ever need to tip. Just because there are 6 people does not mean its one check. It could be 6 checks and so on. A party's size does not matter because they could all show up and sit at all of the tables. There is no extra work that is required to serve a large party.
@kameljoe21 you have valid info. In the past, ithis s what estaurants did. For 6 or more it was either 15% or 18% tip they added to your bill. It was written on the menu.
The guy bagging groceries at our grocery store does a great job, doesn't make much, but the store does not allow tips. Nursing assistants do not make much money and most organizations do not allow tips for exceptional service. It is interesting how some occupations allow, encourage and even mandate tips, while other do not allow them.
True, but blame the national RR association (do not know exact name), back in the 60's when minimum wage was the rage, their lobby helped pass legislation that allowed servers to be paid half the wage, with tips making up the difference. More to it I'm sure, but essentially wait staff has always been subject to the lower wage/tip standard.
I used to get to very rarely get a tip here and there working at a grocery store... May have been disallowed but it was infrequent. I've always declined at first but if the customer insists, then the customer is always right 😂
When the IRS decided that tips would be taxable, is when the whole tip/wage fiasco got started. A tip is or should be, for the servers work ethic, not for food or any other amenities that the dining place adjures. Raise the prices, and pay the help a living wage or close the doors.
You have no idea how right you are. The employee trust fund account fines has closed the doors of many good business. I have seen this unfortunately countless times 1st hand
@@lrmackmcbride7498 the fact its labeled as a "labor fee" or "service fee" are taxed, atleast in my state if the fee is REQUIRED, which it is in the case by the sounds of it, while optional tips/gratuity isnt taxed (to the one giving, it is income taxed to the receiver) so in my state this 100% would be tax evasion
If a restaurant itemizes the labor cost, I'd expect the "food" cost of the bill to be cheaper than what I pay for the same item retail. Bulk discount and all...
The food cost is the smallest item on a restaurant's budget. Largest is the lease, with staff behind that. Equipment and maintenance I include in the lease, but after equipping a kitchen maintenance is a drop in the bucket.
@@ajobdunwell2585not even close, i've seen food expenses reach 50% while majority of labor costs are 30% or lower, which of that 30% is the management salaries around 10%. If your highest expense is the lease, you put the business in the wrong spot as rent and utilities shouldn't be over 15% of operating costs. Doing more than that on rent is setting up the business to fail and that explains why salaries are poor and food quality sucks.
@@TheFriskyClicker and @ajobdunwell2585 Doesn't that depend on the location of the restaurant? The financial goal of the business should be to maintain competitive margins regardless of how the costs are organized, but a location in a big city or airport such may have a different ratio than a diner on a dead spot of highway.
@@TheFriskyClicker amen, GM'd a Jimmy Johns doing $40k/week and I would lose my entire bonus if labor (including salaried employees, and a cut for the area super visor above me) was more than 30% of sales, and half the bonus if labor was over 20%. Being I was profit shared I got to see profit & loss statements for each month, and the leases were 7.5% averaged across all the locations.
@@user-rw1ph6xy8y What do you mean "too cheap?" Many people don't have the income to dine out anymore. It's not a matter of being cheap, it's a matter of being able to pay rent and other bills.
@@user-rw1ph6xy8ythings aren’t cheap to operate. Going out eat isn’t feasible anymore either. Maybe the employer should pay their staff. If that’s too much for the employer to handle then go out of business.
I never tipped base on % because how does the price of the food have anything to do with the work the server does? Restaurant prices are getting insane. It's nearly $20 for a meal at a restaurant when you add a tip. I can cook the same thing at home for less than half of that.
This happened to us yesterday. Not disclosed beforehand either. The town is 1.5 hours away from home, and I did not notice the fee until I was filing my receipts away at home later in the evening. All of this after having left a generous tip as well. We will not be returning to that restaurant, and will be posting it on social media today as well as yelping our experience. What a stupid thing to do, especially to a repeat customer. Now are we required to ask at the door if there will be additional fees added to the cost of the meal, that are not going to be disclosed until after the meal is delivered and eaten? This establishment has now lost all of out future business. Biting the hand that feeds them. Fools.
Your experience further adds reason for one to be diligent and assume they're going to be nickeled and dimed when using services. Goes for hotels, rental cars, etc. Personally, I eat out a lot less than I used to. Not just because of the cost, but the quality of service has declined. Good rule of thumb is add 30%-50% or more to the prices one sees shown on the menu to account for tip, fees, and taxes. For food delivery, double the listed prices.
@@ronbennett7885 Our perspective has now changed after this recent lesson. Like you, we have been eating out less often and have just prepared a picnic style lunch when it will work out. As the old saying goes "Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me".
@@Nope_handlesaretrash Yes. Same with credit card fees. Labor, card processing fees, electricity, rent, property taxes, supplies, etc. are part of the cost of doing business and business should take all those things (plus profit margin) into account when determining their prices. Surprise fees added at the point of sale should be illegal. Period. (If those fees are disclosed up front I won't patronize the business at all.)
Here in Colorado Springs the "View House" added a fee for the kitchen staff. I used to frequent but they will never see me again. Charge enough for the food and drink to cover your costs and leave me out of the details of how you pay your employees. The arrogant stupidity of this is incredible.
How they pay there employees is called the bill. Guess what, you're also paying for the AC the heat the water the electricity rent gas taxes and everything else they have to buy to run the business. They can't print money so where do you think every single cent comes from?
How they pay their employees is part of covering their costs… Would you rather pay 20% more, plus additional sales tax, and mediocre service, or tip 15% for stellar service…? Either way you’re “covering labor”…
Perkins tried to charge me a similar, "Supply Chain Fee," which they don’t tell you about until you're cashing out. They claim that it's on the front door and the _back_ of the menu. There's no food listed on the _back of the menu,_ so Who would even look? And who's reading small print on the door? They clearly try to hide it in places that no one will look, which is what makes it so underhanded. If you need to raise the prices, _raise the prices._ If you don't think the customers will appreciate a price increase, don't try to sneak it past them, either.
All you have to do kids is listen to your parents when they tell you to do your homework and do well in school then you can graduate and get a real job. You won't have to work in a restaurant as a server a dishwasher or a busboy scrounging for tips to make ends meet
@@DMAC1301 If everyone was well-educated and became an attourney or PR agent, who do you think will do all the low-skill labour that keeps our civilization running? Apart from that, low-skilled labour also needs to be paid a living wage, somehow. Either via salary, tipping or if neither is the case, your car gets stolen, your house gets robbed or family members get kidnapped. Either way, someone is going to pay.
Rather than just raising the prices on his menu that labor fee is similar to a local government instituting a "small" tax just to fill potholes even though the state has a heavy gas tax for road maintenance.
To complete the analogy, they base that small extra tax off your how much you spent on gas, but instead of it being calculated at the pump, they send you a surprise invoice at the end of the year.
@@jpnewman1688 I'm genuinely curious what you're trying to communicate here. You spam this comment all over this channel's videos' comment sections, and are generally roundly ignored because you make no sense. But this is even more nonsensical than usual, for you, so I'm curious.
On a similar note, restaurant delivery now typically has a delivery fee. This fee, as it was explained to me, was to pay for the wear and tear on the restaurant vehicles. I noticed that the vehicles used in my area are the employees own vehicles and the employees have stated they get none of the delivery fee and still expect a tip. It really makes it difficult to agree to a delivery fee and a tip for the delivery driver.
Just had thos happen when I ordered from PIzza Hut on the app. I did npot see the app defaulted to delivery, and it did not give the choice for delivery or pickup. I just updated it before the order, so it was in the update. I had to call the store, which went to a call center first, then the store and they fixed it for me. $4.99 for delivery plus a tip? Nope!
@@kriswingert1662 5.49 for Pizzahut to drive down the block to deliver to me. I just go pick up the pizza now and I order 1/6th as often. I guess that fee was great for business as there sales have dropped quite a bit since the increase from 2.49.
@@GMAMEC I just prepay when ordering,, walk-in or go to the drive-thru if they have one, take the food, and say thank you. If the person is really polite and the food is usually good and right sometimes I'll leave a tip.
I stopped ordering from Pizza Hut and Dominos because of that $5 delivery fee. I asked the driver who uses their own personal vehicles do they get that $5 and they said no. So If I order a plain pizza it will cost me double because of the delivery fee and tip. So the business is getting $5 extra on every order, that's a rip off so I will never or delivery again. What a scam.
As far as I’m concerned, restaurants can charge whatever they want because I no longer go out to eat except for a special occasion. Previously I went out 2-4x a week for breakfast and/or dinner but since COVID began cooking at home and realized a ton of savings in doing so. Between high restaurant food prices, sales tax, tips, fee for using a credit card and now possibly a “labor fee” charge it’s just completely out of hand. For example, a 3 egg omelette with 2 slices of bacon, toast and coffee at my local diner is now $17.95. Tax $1.59 and $3.00 tip bringing a modest breakfast to $22.50. I now make the exact same thing at home for under $8.00.
@@user-co7fb6qe5w nope. Not sure where you live, but supermarket prices have not gone down at all here. For a short period of time, eggs did drop in price but they are right back up there again.
@@MrScottie68 no disrespect intended. 2 eggs, 2 slices whole grain toast, 2 slices decent bacon and coffee in Cleveland Ohio is no more than $3-$4 adding up those ingredients fairly.
@@user-co7fb6qe5w No disrespect taken. However, the point of my original comment was to just say how cooking at home is so much cheaper than eating out. My “under $8” price is an estimate and includes not only the ingredients but also correctly factors in the cost of electricity to cook the bacon and eggs, make the toast and the coffee as well as the detergent and water to wash the pans and the dishes. Also, if you’ve been to NYC lately, you’ll know the prices of things here are significantly higher than Ohio.
Loved the M*A*S*H reference....write in "pizza oven" I had the privilege of seeing Alan Alda in a play in London's West End in the early 90s. Waited outside after the play to get my Playbill autographed, but he had left already. Someone from the theater took my name and address and a few weeks later the autographed Playbill arrived at my apartment in New York. Thanks Hawkeye!
Today... not a long, long time ago... in a far-away land called Japan there is NO tipping. Take a taxi? No tip. Have a meal at a restaurant? No tip. Stay at a hotel? No tip. Tipping is so rare I've never heard of it in Japan. And the customer service is wonderful! I have been going to Japan since 1973 (eight trips), and the service has always been attentive and kind. Check it out!
I was in Kanazawa last year and stopped at a small restaurant for okonomiyaki with shrimp and a draft beer. Total price was $9. Found a place in Boulder, CO that has okonomiyaki and their price runs from $18-26 for just the food. Add the drink and expected tip and you're probably getting out of there for $40. Even factoring in exchange rates, I just can't understand why food is so much more expensive here , but it's probably government related.
Won't be an issue. I avoid all restaurants with mandatory "gratuity" (that's not gratuity) or any other type of service fee. Alamo Drafthouse started putting an 18% service fee on all food and drinks recently, at least here in San Antonio. Buh-bye!
This is 4.5%, are you saying you just generally refuse to tip? Most people tip at least 15%, this is a huge decrease by about 10.5%. I'm not double tipping and they just took away my responsibility to figure out a "fair" tip. Now if they raised it to 18% I'd avoid them.
Legally, they can't make the mandatory gratuity mandatory. They have to remove it from the bill upon request. Every time someone has been arrested for dine and dash for not paying the mandatory gratuity, they get the charges dismissed.
“We care so much about our employees that we want you to pay an additional fee rather than us just raise prices.” You can use whatever excuse you want to use but at the end of the day it’s a guilt trip to get you to pay the employees more so the owner doesn’t have to.
This makes no sense, the customer has always paid for the employees. There's no magic well in the back that the owner uses to pay people. The only revenue source for a restaurant is the customer. So when you buy a burger, you're paying for the beef, bun, stove, fridge, shipping, chef's pay, server's pay, rent, insurance, advertising, and the table who walked out without paying.
The first and only time I ever went on a Cruise, there were a lot of automatic tips on our bill. Since we have never gone before, we didn't have a clue about these things. We NEVER had anyone in to clean our room. We are very tidy and don't like people in our room. My GF had disputed all the Fees we didn't use and they did take them off. CRUISES are the most notorious for Automatic charging of "Tips". That was 25 years ago. I haven't been on a Cruise since. When you look at the fees, it's over the amount of the actual trip (so it's over double what you see online). Total waste of time, and money.
@@bengtandersson2649 Thank you, I was wondering how paying a standard wage affects meal prices. Between rising food costs and all the other expenses (rent, utilities, insurance, etc.) small family dine-in restaurants are barely hanging on. I don't know how much they'd raise the prices, but we get a nice sandwich, a side of fries and a drink for two for under $30. This is a dine-in place with table service, not counter self-serve. The portions are generous so an extra $10 for a tip is fine. If they made it no tip and each meal was $20 I'd be OK with that, too. Trouble is the cheapskates who don't tip would go elsewhere.
I was in Billund and my contact took me out to a very fancy dinner (for me anyway.) It was somewhat uncomfortable when it came to bill time. As an American, I wanted to leave a couple of Euros to the wonderfully attentive waitress that provided spectacular service. I was basically told by both the host and the server that my desire to tip would be seen as an insult. I also really got a kick out of the chip and pin at the table. At no time does a server ever touch your payment method.
Guess what? We have decided that restaurants seem to believe they are entitled. they have raised prices and other fee's that seem to be over the top and taking advantage of their customers because of their industry changes. So, as a result of our evaluations for this activity, we no longer visit the restaurants as often as we have due to the higher costs and nothing in return regarding service or food quality. This applies much to the fast food industry as it does to the many restaurants. Two people having to pay $50 for a simple breakfast or lunch is just ridiculous and they expect the tips to be based on the check total ! Forget them...we have options.
That is wise. The problem is too few Americans have that wisdom. If Americans collectively cut back on dining out by 25%, I promise you restaurants would be dropping prices.
My husband and I took this stance in 2015 when we went to freaking mcd and we each bought a value meal. Regular size value meals came to 23$ USD. For that price we can go to a sit-down restaurant. However sit-down restaurant prices got way more expensive, and their portions got much smaller. So now literally we go out to eat a restaurant like twice a year we rather just order a pizza if we don't want to cook.
Because the government has decided that the customers are responsible for assisting restaurants to pay the employees salaries. What happens if the government decides We the People must tip retail/grocery employees, which then allows those businesses to pay less per hour?
@@pastramionrye247 Part of the problem with that idea is that due to the increased costs of doing business these days combined with the increasing inelasticity of people's price tolerance, the restaurants would more likely just go out of business. Just look at what's going on in California with their new $20/hr fast food labor minimum wage - restaurants cannot increase their prices to cover it, so they just call it a day and close instead.
I am being 100 percent truthful, I have not been to a bar, restaurant, or fast food place since 2020 when the covid lock downs happened. I got used to not going and didn't miss it so i stopped. I have saved tons of money and 1000's of hours by not hanging around those places. I as well as others do host get togethers, dinners, and pool parties kinds of things to socialize with friends.
I hadn’t eaten at a fast food joint for a few years before I drove cross-country recently. MAN, talk about sticker shock. It’s like everybody got together and decided that the bare minimum out-the-door cost is now $10.
I recently drove my small RV cross country, It's a gas hog, but compared to what the hotels and restaurants I didn't patronize cost it was a bargain. When I overnite in a Cracker barrel parking lot I do by breakfast there, it's only fair.
@@ariochiv It is perfectly fine to be you. That is what this life is all all a bought. I hope you never find your self in my spot. I hope you always have true friends to share every moment. That really is the life to envy.
Several years ago we learned that some restaurants were deducting the cost associated with the use of a credit card from the tip put on the credit card which was intended for the waiter/waitress. We then started leaving the tip in cash and not adding tip to the bill being paid by the credit card. You cannot believe the response we get from waiter/waitress at all restaurants since starting this practice. Makes you wonder about this industry.
Labor fee you say? So I don't have to tip, cool. As long as it's clearly displayed. @Steve, it all started during the great depression, restaurant owners took advantage of the situation and basically said "Well I won't pay you but you can work for charity from my customers"
Actually tipping started at the end of the Civil War (1850-1860s) with formerly enslaved people and immigrants. Employers took advantage of this class of "low-educated, low-income" workers. It really should be made illegal because it did come from racism and it's exploitive.
@BeerMoneyforTokyo yup. Servers were white males. No tipping in the US until reconstruction. Then black workers were hired for next to nothing, but customers were encouraged to tip.
Honestly, the exact details seem to be up in the air. However, it started long before the Great Depression and plenty of businesses were strictly against it. Keep in mind that tips use to be paid in advance, essentially as a bribe, “To Insure Prompt” service. The problem was that some frontline service providers would sometimes accept tips to perform actions that hurt the business. You know, like cancel another customer’s reservation to make room for a tipper, or give the person free products after being given a large tip.
@@Rkbmomma I'd imagine they also have to pay an electric bill and probably either a phone bill or for internet service. Those things are called "the cost of doing business". If they'd like to itemize everything, go ahead. The more fees that appear on a receipt, the more their customers are going to bristle at it. Eventually, it will cost the restaurant a lot of customers.
I went to park at a parking lot at a public park in Memphis yesterday. Over 40% of the bill was to fees. They had a fee for "descriptive credentials" Even though they weren't even printing out a ticket It was all through an app. Multiple fees and taxes. Just charge me a price and divvy it up however you feel Don't advertise a price and then add a bunch of fees
I love that i live in a country where the price on the menu is the price you pay. All staff are paid for by the business. Tips are fully optional and generally for good service and/or food.
It is pretty crazy when the price show $11.99, but your final bill is more than $18. What's worse is when you get less food if you order it beforehand for carryout rather than eating at the restaurant, but the price of the food is the same. These places are such scams and they care nothing about their customers. I say boycott the restaurant industry until they get their shit straightened out.
Steve: Many years ago the mayor of the city of Columbus, Ohio wrecked a city owned car downtown at 3:00 am in the morning. The city police investigated the scene but did not give him a sobriety test. The mayor told them that he was simply out inspecting the city when he ran off the street. Years afterward, there were a large number of vehicles with bumper stickers that read " I'm not drunk - I'm just inspecting the city". lol
I read once (no citation, source could have been flawed) that US tipping culture started out exactly the opposite. Inns or taverns didn't have servers at all, and poor folks or kids would go get your food for you and you'd give them a tip. It eventually came to be that people expected service, and restaurants started paying the good/attractive servers to hang around their place. They didn't pay full wages because the waitress "got to" keep their tips.
@@thomasmoroney1079 - For the record, most countries have a disgusting history and slavery existed in about every country in the world before the US even existed.
Around the world, labour costs are included in the price of the meal. That means waiters/waitresses are paid at least minimum wage. That means that any tip left is actually a tip, not a wage supplement. I have never understood why the USA does it differently.
@yxmichaelxyyxmichaelxy3074 no tips are not taxed. Never have been. I have worked in the restaurant industry for many years, and tips do not have to be declared unless they go through PAYEE, because they are on a card and go through the payslip. All cash tips are considered free of tax. So you are wrong.
@@tkralva.6668 'Tips And Gratuities Are Taxable Income and Can Be Insurable Earnings. Subsection 5(1) of the Tax Act stipulates that a taxpayer's income for a taxation year from employment includes gratuities received by the taxpayer in that year.' Duuuhhhhh.....
If you receive $20 or more per month on cash tips, report that income to your employer. Your employer will report your tip income on your W-2, Box 7. The Law assumes an average tip rate of 8%, and expects employees to report at least 8% of the gross food and drink sales.
The small mom & pop shops are definitely the ones I end up tipping the most. Fantastic food, great service, and as Steve mentioned, they remember you. The server ends up comping me some items or gives me random discounts so it’s all good, but the best part, as soon as we walk in the door (before being seated), they get the order in and it’s like a 3-5 min wait for our entire meal 😂
A couple of restaurants in Detroit have tried that. They have gone back to tips. The waitstaff will usually revolt, as they can make a *lot* more on tips. Depends on the restaurant and the server, of course.
@@lucristianx Federal minimum wage for servers is $2.13 an hour. It hasn't changed since the 1970s and with the exception of a handful of states, most follow the federal minimum. Servers make their living on tips. This person thinks tips should be eliminated, which means they want free service, essentially.
Worked at a high end place where we had a few regulars who would tip 500 to $1,000. fortunately all of our staff agreed to pool tips. This ensures they are one team and if a customer asks for anything from anyone there incentivized to get it. Also when that guy came in no one fought over who was going to serve him because they all knew they were going to split it.
I believe in in the near future, you will not have people going out to eat!!!!! It will start with the families refusing to pay these high prices then we will go down to a couples!!!! I myself no longer go out to eat, been that way for 4 years now!!! It’s amazing the money you can save cooking for yourself!!!!! I cook large meals that I can get 2 to 3 days out of!!! This way, I’m not cooking every day!!
Have you noted a weight decrease? I have. If the prep takes a certain amount of time that compares with the consumption time you are more likely to eat less or prepare less food. I think this explains why I see UberEats or DoorDash users with a weight problems. Almost instant gratification.
We have been doing this as well. We do occasionally get a pizza, no tip, we go to pick it up. It’s hot, too. We go out maybe once a year, and I research their fee structure. We used to go out all the time! Or get takeout. No more. I make a menu for the week, we buy groceries, and I cook. I miss eating out, but now I have money for my hobbies! So fun.
In my area, restaurants are as busy as ever and servers are making plenty of money. I think there is a huge difference between what you read online and what actually happens irl.
I remember visiting Florida on a military exchange exercise, back in '97. We were staying in hotels, getting paid a daily stipend to pay for food, breakfast was included in the hotel room, so I had a crap load of money in my hands more than usual. Whilst I was probably the typical ignorant Brit, not being aware of US tipping culture, I know I did good good on some occasions. One night I decided to order in pizza with some extras, came to just over $13 I was told over the phone; I assumed they would add delivery on top of that, when the delivery guy showed up I asked him how much extra was needed, he explained that was all in. I handed him a 20 and he asked how much change I wanted, I told him to keep it, as I'd been expecting to pay more on top anyway. Even now, I can still remember the look of disbelief on his face as he thanked me, which surprised the hell out of me.
That's what they're doing bruh. You're paying for food and labor of the server, instead of paying for food and tipping the labor. The math is pre-done to a degree. Now you won't have to tip too.
That will never happen. As much as waitstaff complain about only making money through tips, they wouldn't want it any other way. And neither would the restaurant.
Tipping in the US is insane. In most of the other countries I've been to, you don't tip much, if at all, and definitely not the insane 20%. Some places see tipping as an insult! The waiters and waitresses receive a full salary like anybody else. How things got the way they are in the US is beyond me. Staffing up? So does the business!
tipping started as a way to ensure good service from low paid servie workers but do you know WHEN it started...... post civil war i think our economy is doing a biiiit better than it was back them it's time to abolish tipping and tell these greedy fucks it's time to pay your workers at least a minimumwage
I’m 46yrs old and I’ve never tipped in my life. We just pay our workers a liveable wage. The price is the price. Good service is a given because good service means return business.
This brings up the issue I’ve had for years with costs being separated in the first place. Sales tax should also be folded into the price. The customer should see what they are going to pay, period. And before anyone says that won't work, we do it at the pumps every fill up. The price you see is what you pay
The USA loves to claim that things won't work that actually do work in other countries. For example, in Australia... 1. Taxes are rolled into the retail price, and in the interests of clarity, it is against the law to even itemise the tax. 2. Sensible gun control laws 3. Metrification
@@davidbroadfoot1864 "in the interest of clarity, it is against the law to even itemize the tax." That really sounds like its more in the interest of avoiding backlash for excessive tax rates.
@@catgirlvs72 Not at all. That rule was introduced when Australia moved from a 20% wholesale tax on goods to a 10% retail tax on goods and services. The 10% tax rate was well-publicised. The sole purpose of not allowing it to appear on retail price lists, menus, and advertising was to avoid confusion and misleading advertising. On the other hand, that tax must be itemised clearly for all business-to-business transactions.
I laughed at the signs located at some fast food places. Sign at DRIVE THRU window- "Due to increased food costs, we are temporarily adding a 99¢ surcharge to all orders." These signs are FADED and at least 2 years old.
@@Daves_Not_Here_Man_76So true! It’s like every time a government introduces a temporary tax to pay for a new stadium or some other project. That tax will still exist and will be increasing long after the stadium is torn down.
What really makes me mad about this is that if the boss added it as a fee, you can be certain they are at the very least skimming off the top, while claiming they don't. This is just one more way to steal wages and underpaying employees.
Cost tend to creep up linearly whereas price tend to increase incrementally(like stairs). So even in a healthy and honest business, it tend to cycle between owner fronting the cost and owner skimming off the top. Restaurants isn't the most stable or profitable of business, so it is highly unlikely that all of them can get away from continuously skimming off the top more and more, simply due to the economics.
Worked for years in the restaurant/hospitality industry. It's a very tough business. However the shared tip generally isn't much and it's usually shared with the bussers,hostesses,and bartenders. It's usually a small percentage of total sales. Usually 1or 2 percent. So i.e. $500 in sales = $5-10 to other staff. So $20 to $30 tip share. This is absolutely done for the restaurants to save on labor wage. Now they can pay bussers $5/hrs +tips. Etc.etc. IMO...all restaurants should pay everyone the current minimum wage period...AND if the employees get tipped they share it with the entire staff.
If it's disclosed why do you have a problem with it? Do you not tip and are mad you're being forced to pay a modest tip of 4-4.5%? I usually tip 15-20%, if they include a mandatory labor fee I will be tipping zero because clearly they've done the math and that 4.5% is all they need.
"Labor fees" have always been part of pricing. Every store includes labor costs in their pricing even if it is not spoken of. It's just how business works. In this incidence, they seem to be adding an additional fee, assuming their initial pricing already accounted for labor costs (and we all know it did). But adding a new fee and labeling it "labor" sends a very specific message. Will be interesting to see what happens.
You've all missed the point raised by the owner of the restaurant: If the prices were increased by that amount, you would end up paying more in sales tax. By adding the labour as a separate item it's actually going to save you, the customer, more money than if they increased the prices.
This has been a point of contention for me for years....I grew up in Las Vegas and in Vegas the culinary union is very strong and basically if you try to NOT pay minimum wage, the culinary will try to organize you, which is far more expensive than paying the minimum wage. Hopes this all makes sense so far....the interesting part is that many of the chain restaurants on and near the strip all charge similar prices to their other restaurants across the nation where servers are paid wages as low as $2.70 / hour. If they can pay that in Vegas where rent and supplies are much higher than other places across the country, EVERYONE can pay higher wages.
@@jpnewman1688 I love capitalism. I just believe if the minimum wage is 7.35, everyone that works for someone should get it...I guess the real question is how do you like politics? Politicians allow this.
@@Gamebuster there is no price fixing, it is simple (at least in my opinion) pay minimum wage....if you fail to do this, or fail to protect your employees, the union will try to organize the employees....Why is it that IBM never had any union activities? ...because they took care of their employees in both financial and thoughtful benefits....Why is it that at my company we never had any employees leave? Because we paid competitive wages, (below what the union employees were getting) gave every employee a company car, company credit card, I personally shook every employees hand and thanked them regularly...I treated them like I wanted to be treated. Take care of your employees and they will take care of and protect the company...it is simple and it is not easy.
One thing to know is that most states do not allow employers to require tipped employees to share their tips unless they are paid at least the standard hourly minimum wage before tips. That doesn't stop many restaurant owners from implementing illegal tip pools, which is essentially tip theft. Also, similar fees are WAY higher in other places. I'm in the DC area and large majority sit down restaurants have some version of this fee now. Some even stack multiple fees (labor fee, supply chain surcharge, inflation surcharge). I plan on a Minimum of 10% and often see 15-20% (none of them are gratuity, so none of them are guaranteed to go to the staff).
When the "resort fee" idiocy began, I pondered if they were doing that to avoid the taxes and fees that local and state govt charged hotels, figuring that'd be a clever way for them to sneak around those. But no, they still pay the fees on those (at least in Las Vegas). So really, the only possible purpose of having a $45 resort fee on a $50 room is to falsely advertise the price. So... how is it a "labor fee" is not hit with the sales tax? The state and county and city are cool with that? And if they are, why wasn't this done all along even to pay the minimum wage?
I stayed at a "resort" last month that charged $35 per day "experience fee". When I asked them what it was for, they said "It's to pay for the wifi, the gym, the parking and anything else you may want to use while on property." Well, the wifi barely worked, I didn't use the gym but I did park my car on their property overnight. I don't understand why they don't itemize everything instead of lumping it into one "fee"; they sure as hell itemized all the taxes I was being charged.
@@davidp2888 All totally understandable if you simply ignore what they say. The fee is because they want it. And they want it hidden in the advertised price. The TV ad says "$35* PER NIGHT!!!" and in unreadable fine print on the TV is says "* $45/night mandatory resort fee not included in price". It's total sham.
I believe the powerful NRA (National Restaurant Association) lobbied during the great depression and since to enable their members not to have to pay their waitstaff. But still order them around as if they were paying them. The tipping system is a horrible mess that causes stress and alienation for customers and waitstaff. But restaurant owners like it. Btw, This is only in America. Some restaurants have started paying a living wage and eliminated tipping. They all should.
A business that can't afford to pay or won't pay a market wage to it's employees, shouldn't be in business in the first place. Alternatively, just deduct the unilaterally imposed "service charge" from whatever tip the patron was going to pay or leave no tip at all. If the watier/waitress asks the reason for leaving no tip, explain that the owner has already taken care of it with the service charge.
Lol, the great untold or unrealized talking point in this argument is that a great many servers ardently do not want to move away from tipping; they would make so much less money. This is a spectrum with some people making near minimum wage, of course, but there are also many servers making really good money on tips. I guarantee you those people do NOT want to do away with tips.
It's not the waiter's decision to implement these policies. Your way to get back at the business is to give them more money and then say fuck you to the person already being screwed over by them.
In the last two years, I have mostly just stopped eating at restaurants, because they have raised their prices far more than overall nationwide inflation has risen. I do not want to help restaurant owners and executive level employees get wealthier, while I struggle along at a low-level income. The regular staff are truly trying to make a living, but the owners, investors, and executives are trying to make way more than a living - like literally double or triple or quadruple what the waiters and cooks and dishwashers make - and they are trying to do it at the expense of the common guy who is struggling to make a living himself. If the restaurant owners were content to live on a personal income of $50,000 to $65,000 per year, then they could pay their staff fairly. Corporate and entrepreneurial greed suck.
I'm not sure you understand capitalism? If you own the business you take all the risk including the fact that if the business loses money you lose money. That is typically why owners make what they make. @TomReichner
@@DAHerr oh, I understand capitalism all too well. The privileged think they're taking so much risk, but even if they "lose everything" they still have more left than someone like me will ever have. They not only have business assets, but in addition to that, they have personal assets that are not part of their business. Some of us have worked a lot in our lives, and yet don't have either business assets or personal assets.
@@TomReichner If you are an American I hope that you understand that our poor are considered rich out of the US. You can take less than a year's salary abroad and live like a king in many nations worldwide. Honestly, you need to figure out what hustle you are willing to take on. PS if you fail like most of us do it's ok just try again.
Tipping was started from the prohibition era when restaurants owners were no longer allowed to serve alcohol. To cut cost they came up with a way to make tipping servers with what is now called gratuity. But when prohibition was repeal they would never change the gratuity, or tipping, from their servers. And Steve is right, where I tip good they will remember you, even if they never know your name. So be nice to your servers because remember that they are bringing your food to you. if you know what I mean, hint hint.
As a tourist in Capetown back in 2015, I was on a bike day trip to Cape of Good Hope with a bunch of 20-25 kids from different countries. One girl was also from Canada, from Toronto. When asked what she doing, she says she works as a waiter in Toronto, and her life currently is that she works bars/restaurants for 1/2 a year, and then travel the world for 1/2 year on earned money. Admittedly, part of her strategy was that she was not renting a place in Toronto, but couch-surfing at friend's places.
A lot of restaurants are overtly blaming their price hikes on the cost of labor when their labor costs have gone up a significantly lower percentage than their menu prices. The restaurants are raising prices mainly because their prices for food have gone up. By blaming their employees for the price hikes, patrons feel they don't have to tip (or at least not as much) so the employees actually end up making *less* than they were before 2020, the customers can pay the same prices as before 2020 (after reducing the tip), and the restaurant owners don't lose customers over increased prices because after tip reductions they can pay the same. Then they complain that nobody wants to work!
my brother's brother lives in australia. He says tipping is not a common or required thing. He says no-one depends on tips to earn their living. He says service is fine, and if any particular person doesn't give good service, they get the arse, same as any other job in the country. He says it's a simple concept.
This is just unrealistic and fails to understand the industry. Tipping isn't just outsourcing the payment to customers directly but also the management of that pay. Restaurant managers can say, "You want more pay? Work more shifts, earn better tips." Since tips are generally tied to the amount of revenue a server brings in, that structure incentivizes high performing servers (whether it's because they truly provide the best service or it's just they are really hot) to be successful. Eliminate that direct link and service will go downhill because managing people is hard work. Restaurant managers aren't usually that great at it. Much easier to allow self-selection. I don't make the rules but if we eliminate tipping the quality of service will drop.
@x--. youre fundamentally incorrect. i spent two weeks in germany where servers are paid per hour. my service was as good as it was there as it is in the states
@@x--. Re your comment "This is just unrealistic and fails to understand the industry" ... I own a restaurant where the staff provides great service because they are nice people who love to do a good job. Customers who don't tip get the same great service every time they return. Re your comment "if we eliminate tipping the quality of service will drop" ... please stop to have a think about why other countries that do not have tipping provide better service than is found in the USA.
We have stopped MOST all eating out at a restaurant now. Even fast food is sky-high nowadays. I got a regular Star burger medium meal for my daughter (requested no pickle or onion, which I realize makes no difference in the price), and 3 chicken tenders for myself. The tenders were not in a meal and they were very small pieces...about the size of my index finger. I almost fell over when I was told it would be $18.00 (plus change). I couldn't believe it. Mind you, it was not a LARGE, but a MEDIUM meal. I am done with all fast food, as well. I am fortunate to be retired so that I am home and can make nice, hot, homemade meals for my husband and teenage grandson who lives with us. It also helps to know how to stretch food nowadays. They both love homemade food and it is so much cheaper, especially when there are leftovers.
Look, if you want to pay your workers more, raise your prices, don't hide a charge by listing it in the small print somewhere. If they are avoiding increasing prices, then they are diverting tax revenues.
Is regular tipping "tax dodging"? I'm pretty sure sales tax isn't applied to tips. You could argue that this is basically a mandatory tip so it should be treated similarly.
@@x--. I would be surprised if they actually didn't. Labor is definitely in a different bucket than other expenses for a business, such as food easily on the federal level, so for the state and local taxes to be different on that would be honestly surprising.
I will not eat at restaurants where a tip is mandatory, let alone where a "labor fee" is charged! I also believe that a tip should only go to the server who was at your table and not shared with other employees, working at OTHER tables! That money was earned by THAT EMPLOYEE for providing great service with a great attitude! Those are personal traits that are not shared by ALL employees!
@stevelehto The origin of American tipping came out of the great depression. Before tipping was seen as rude and as a way to pay off someone for service before others. But as money became scarce, and as those still with money to go to restaurants generally had more money to spare, employers started to promote the idea of cutting staff wages to put the burden of paying on the customer. It started from the goodwill of helping those who were fortunate to even have jobs during tough times, and then entrenched itself from there.
In my mind, it's the same as a register asking you to "round up" the bill for 'charity." Uh, no. No, I do not want to "round up." It's organized begging on an industrial scale.
@@TechGorilla1987 Yes. It is a method of "guilt tripping" people into parting with more of their hard earned money at the point of sale. We have a handful of well researched local and national charities that we feel comfortable donating to out of our meager fixed income. So many "charities" are nothing more than fronts for personal profit for the "organizers". Every time I hear someone say "I run a non-profit" and then see them climb into their Mercedes AMG or Bentley and drive off, I remember why we carefully research any charity that we are willing to support. Way too many scammers out there. You have to be very careful about who you donate to, if anyone now.
Many years ago, friends & I decided to go to a well known steakhouse chain in central London. We walked in & sat down. I noticed on the table menu that there was a £15 per person "Seating" charge. When I discussed this with my friends, we immediately decided to leave. As we were walking out, a waitress ran over & tried to make us pay. You can guess the response. Generally I'm the first to tip if the food & service is good. Anything from 10 - 20%, but not if either are substandard. Many restaurant stories from the UK, mostly not good. People become complacent with poor service.
@@everythingpony thats literally what the sign said champ. their pub, their rules. dont like it, dont go, but you dont get to refuse to pay for a service you clearly used.
They've had the automatic Tip for big tables (usually 6 or more), for probably 20+ years, in a lot of places. But it's usually a nicer, upscale restaurant that you see that on. The funny thing is, I've always tipped better than that 15% automatic tip charge. So when they put that on there, that's what I would pay. I would love an America where we don't tip anymore. It's getting ridiculous. Now you see tip lines on just about every type of business. For what? Doing your job? I do Accounting and Bookkeeping....I've NEVER received a tip for that service. It wouldn't make sense.
If I go to any restaurant and there's any fees added I would consider that the tip and would never ever but never ever return to that establishment. Even if the service was outstanding there would be NO TIP GIVEN!
I went to a Korean restaurant while on vacation just a few months ago in a city I don't travel to very often. Just two of us. Food we ordered was around $100. By the time they added in city tourist taxes, service fees, state tax, cooking fee and mandatory "group" tip our bill was over $200. And the waitress actually complained at us on the way out that we didn't leave an additional cash tip on the table. Worst than that, it's a hibachi in the table Korean barbecue where you cook your own food, wait staff just brings you plates with cut meats on it and leaves you alone.
@@Vincent_Beers WOW for real? I live in DFW area and we never have any fees or additional taxes just regular sales tax and for tips we double the sales tax. I figure it's around 15 to 18 percent.
@@Vincent_Beers You went to Korean BBQ place. It’s not a hibachi, that’s Japanese. They didn’t cook it for you because that’s how it’s done in Korea. It’s high end dining out in Korea. Although tipping in Korea is not done, that was the American part of it.
Here in CA there is a new law that bans these types of fees, the total price must be disclosed upfront. Restaurants are up in arms about this because, in SF especially, they had become accustomed to adding all kinds of surcharges, for labor, healthcare, you name it. They don't want to factor all that it into the menu price because they say they don't want the customer to have sticker shock when they look at the menu. Tips started out as a reward for good service rendered, it wasn't obligatory, and the tips were small. I started bartending in the late '70s and around that time it started to evolve into an obligation by the customer. Minimum wage laws were re-written to allow employers to pay tipped employees less per hour. In 1982 or 83, in the Reagan tax reforms, they started subjecting tips to federal income tax obligations (while cutting taxes on corporations and the wealthy). They also started taxing Social Security payments. That made tipping even more obligatory. It was an injustice back then to shift the tax burden away from the wealthy and more on the lowest income earners and those on a fixed income (SS) and it's still an injustice today. Let's do something about that.
I always tip the staff generously as I've worked in that industry and know what they're dealing with in terms of pay rates. What drives me insane is a local restaurant who, after that COVID lockdown, decided to stay open offering take-out only. Lockdowns are over but the restaurant never reopened the dining room, instead asking for a tip on the take-out screen used for payment. You have to OPT OUT for take-out! Who tips at a drive-thru?
My wife and I went to a pizza restaurant in CA a few weeks ago while on vacation and they had a sign hanging up saying something to the effect of "due to the rising costs blah blah blah and us wanting to pay our staff yada yada yada, all takeout orders will have a 20% fee." So basically they are enforcing a 20% tip for no service. My wife wanted to get takeout and I was like "no way. We are going to sit and be served... get refills on our drinks... and then I can choose to tip whatever I want". Then when the bill came, the tablet had "suggested" tips of 20%, 22% and 25%. Insane.
@@rhoonah5849 that's kind of how it was at the Thai place I frequented (no longer). They ask up front, on the very first payment screen (they use an Apple touch screen pos terminal). Appalling. They made me feel a little guilty initially because I inquired about tipping for no service - the look on the guy's face and demeanor immediately changed. I realized I'd never return again after that. The fact that the GA restaurant suggested tips and did the math for you is equally uncouth. The times have changed and we need to push back hard against this.
Along time ago, the "tip" was given before the service to insure the customer would get extra special attention from the person actually doing the service.
if im buying something, labour is a part of the cost. To add a labour fee on top of that, its like those ticket scalpers adding a paperwork fee ontop of buying the tickets from them. 1. Raise minimum wage. In Australia minimum wage is $23.23 AUD. After exchanging that for USD thats $15.14 at ~$0.65 USD per AUD which is over double what it is now $7.25 2. Remove tips as an exception for the minimum wage. Customers should not be subsidising wages. "but a sudden jump in minimum wage will bankrupt businesses" this is why the minimum wage should be increasing with inflation, not left stagnant for 15 years. The longer you leave it low and dont increase it, the worse it will be.
A lot of people, especially servers, have forgotten that TIPS stands for "TO INSURE PERSONAL SERVICE" , and they now expect it regardless of the service. I have never left a restaurant without leaving a tip, but the service determines the amount. Servers might take notice of this practice. I am only one of many who thinks this way.
If I sit down, someone comes to the table, takes my order, brings me the food, offers me a variety of things from bread, dessert, drinks, etc., that person is working for a tip. Anything short of that and it is not a tipped role. someone standing at a counter taking orders is not a tipped person.
I used to go regularly to a restaurant in London and every time I went in, I would give the host a £5 handshake. Also tipped the waitstaff very well. I am sure you would imagine I got impeccable service and would also get seated quite quickly. Loved that place and was sad to see the building it was in was torn down and replaced with some clothing store.
Lol, the great untold or unrealized talking point in this argument is that a great many servers ardently do not want to move away from tipping; they would make so much less money. This is a spectrum with some people making near minimum wage, of course, but there are also many servers making really good money on tips. I guarantee you those people do NOT want to do away with tips.
That evil phrase..."living wage"... What is a "living wage"? $30 per hour? $50? Learn a skill and be good at it along with a good work ethic and the money will come...... I am tired of people thinking they can jump right into the job market at the same level as their parents and not have to start at the bottom. I will not hire anyone who has this attitude.
I know a couple of servers who would leave the industry if they were paid a flat wage. They work at popular chain, they're friendly and their service is flawless. Even with splitting tips, they make a really nice living. As in pay off the new car in a year and buy a house. Circumstances differ.
The ONLY people who bitch about wait staff making less than minimum wage, is the people who aren't very good at it, or are lazy. Been a chef a long time now(NC beach), and in the summer season (almost 7 months) our wait staff easily make over $400 in a 5 hour shift.
I do the same when the state hikes minimum wage. Subtract minimum wage 10 years ago from most recent minimum wage hike from the tip. All the way to $0 if I have to.
Pizza 🍕 places in Orlando mid 2000s early 2010s started with "delivery" fees $. Some added ohhh this isn't a tip or $ for the pizza driver! 🙄 I just order carry out. 1 smaller 🍕. Sometimes bread sticks.
@@valcaron That doesn't even make mathematical sense, let alone logical sense. Not only are waitstaff mostly not paid minimum wage, but also you're not the only table they have at a time.
This is insane I need to open a restaurant so I can charge for having a place so they can eat like a convenience fee. say 20 bucks per order. cause why not...
Some places do charge you for eating in, because they have to go back and clean up. It's been a thing for decades. $20? You'd go under, $2? Yeah plenty of restaurants do that. Why is this insane when you already are expected to tip? Just stop tipping, this labor fee means the owner knows they have to pay their staff and not me.
Passing all of these fees onto the customer should give each customer the right to visually inspect the kitchen areas for cleanliness. You'd be shocked...or not, to see the conditions where your high priced meals are being prepared....that you're paying ever increasing costs for.
You pay all the other costs for every other business you interact with but don't (and shouldn't) have this bizarre level of access. Why should this be any different? Lol
The labor fees were already in prices, because the food didnt cost that much. Thats how they set the prices of dish, it figures in cost of food, labor, cost for rent of building, electricity.
You are flat out wrong. The labor fee's for everyone but the server are already baked into the prices. The server is paid essentially on tips alone. The federal min wage for servers is only $2.13, instead of you being put in the position of deciding if they're getting paid for their job or not, the server has guarentee'd income. You as the customer also get to ignore the entire concept of tipping. Pay and leave, no "how good of a job did they do, do they deserve 10% for being pretty bad at it, or 20% for doing great."
Yes, but rising or prices and rising inflation means that prices have to go up. Making it an additional tack on fee instead of higher list prices circumvents sales taxes (for now).
Steve's story of the waitress running after him reminded me of a story my Dad told back in the 1960's: He was with a small group for lunch, left a one dollar tip, and as they were leaving, the waiter held up the dollar bill and yelled: "Sir, I think you need this more than I do!"
Mr. Lehto, the next time you put out an audio book narrated by yourself, please make sure you incorporate the word boingboing in it. Thank you for your time and understanding.
Hi Steve. I grew up in Ann Arbor and worked at Win Schulers while i was in high school . I worked in the kitchen. This was 1974-1976. Most of the wait staff were college students. Back then , they could pay for school and apartment. Most of them went to UofM.
Some people never put forth the effort to learn to cook well. I'm not one of them. I often find restaurant food lacking knowing that I can do better. I'm pleased when I cant or its something new that I have never tried to prepare.
@@9999plato thank you for your response. I agree with you. But after thinking more on this subject I feel there's something more fundamental in our society. I know plenty of my own family, neighbors and friends who are good cooks and they only have a single job so there is time. I am starting to feel that it's more akin to buying junk at a store to find happiness. It's an illusion that some people are falling for. The idea that they are 'eating out' gives them a sense that they are doing good fincially. Even if they are putting it on a credit card and skipping the tip. It's a mentally that successful people eat out all the time. Poor people eat at home. I am just glad that I am a decent enough cook that I think most restaurants food is garbage all coming from Cisco food services. It is sad to watch so many people fall deeper into debt. I hope you have a wonderful day!
The restaurant I used to work at now adds a 'service fee'. Tipping the waitress is no longer necessary because they get paid I guess a minimum wage or higher.
Yeah that's why I'm into this. I'd rather not have to figure out how much money to donate to my server so they can eat, etc. The restaurant charging only 4.5% vs the 15% I usually tip is great news for me.
So anytime a bill says anything other than tip or gratuity, the restaurant can keep all the money. I don't dine at restaurants that have "service fees"
They always have. Their boss only pays the reduced wage if they don't make the rest up in tips. re: THEY ALL MAKE MIN WAGE OR MORE. Anyone that tells you otherwise is either lying, or stupid.
I remember the pizza oven case! Good to hear it ended as it should have! But Steve, wasn't that MASH episode about them needing to replace their broken autoclave?
It was about them needing an incubator ("Give me an incubator or give me death?!") The autoclave blew up in a different episode if my memory is correct.
@@stevelehtoyou’re correct Steve. They needed the incubator to grow cultures that they had been forced to send to Tokyo. The killjoy paperwork guy says “you can’t have one”. The staff retorts with “we’re not asking for a jukebox or a pizza oven”. Killjoy replies “oh, those I can let you have. Just strikeout machine-gun, and write in pizza oven. Great episode.
This was implemented in Las Vegas well over a year ago. It is not in all restaurants but they must either place that cost on the menu or have it posted in the restaurant
There was a restaurant I went to maybe two months ago. They have something called a "back of house" fee. No signs about this in the restaurant. No mention of it on the menu. How did I find out about it? When I got the bill.
Two things make me angry about the whole tipping culture. 1. Restaurants not paying their employees enough - some areas do not even pay minimum wage. 2. This new "Labor Fee." My responsibility as the customer is to pay for the food I order and leave a reasonable tip for good service. It is NOT my responsibility to pay the wages of the servers. That is the responsibility of the owner of the restaurant. A four percent labor fee plus a 20 percent tip adds 24 percent to the bill. There comes a point where the customers just can't afford to eat out anymore.
As a customer of any business, you are 100% paying the wages of the business' employees; it's just built into the cost of the good or service. So this argument is pretty dumb. There's an argument against this extra fee, but yours isn't it
"Restaurants not paying their employees enough - some areas do not even pay minimum wage This isn't true ANYWHERE in the US. You fell for the lie the greedy servers tell you; It's not the truth. The TRUTH is NO ONE is working for less than minimum wage (at least not legally), as a server. Their boss can get away with paying them less than min wage ONLY if the tips they make bring their hourly rate up to or above the min wage, but if not then they DO have to cover the difference. Example: If you get LITERALLY NO TIPS the entire pay period: Your boss is paying min wage. Example 2: If you work 10 hours (simplicity) and get enough tips to bring you above min wage for that period then your boss only has to pay 2-3/h. They lie so you feel bad and tip them more. Many servers would actually make less if tipping was removed because of how prevalent this LIE is. Sit down, and shut up kid.
@@watcherofwatchers Yes, my money for the food pays the wages and all the other expenses. My point is that many owners won't pay minimum wage and are using tipping and labor fees to cover this shortage, thereby taking this expense out of the restaurant's budget.
I worked in multiple restaurants in my younger years and the worst one was when they had us working other people's tables, but we did not get a share of the tips. I worked for almost an hour helping others with their tables and no one was sat at my tables, so I was essentially free labor. I told them I was going to walk out if they didn't seat anyone at my tables. I was not there very long after that as I refuse to work for free. There was never a great restaurant I worked at that I would recommend anyone work at. This is motivation to learn skill and do something better.
I will walk out of a restaurant that has a mandatory tip policy. Two stories. When i was in High School there was a Mexican Restaurant called Casa Lupita. We went on a field trip and decided to eat lunch there. When we got our bills 15% had been added, probably because we were kids. My friend and I looked at the waitress and thanked her for the discount. When she looked puzzled we said we normally tip 20% when we come here. The other was the Rainforest Cafe just outside the Wild Kingdom in Orlando. IT said groups of 6 or more would be charged 15%. I would have walked out but everybody else wanted to stay. We had a horrible waiter, my mother sent her meal back three times and overall it was a lousy experience. I excused myself and went and found the manager. I told him take off the tip orI would dispute the charge for the whole meal. Tips are EARNED not deserved.
Problem is the law allows certain employees, who need significantly more then "minimum' wage to be paid even less and then leave the remain portions of their wage up to the customers. This needs to end. Fist eliminate 'tipped wage' and second restore minimum wage to actually be a minimum wage as intended. There is no way you case support a family of four on just one full time job at the current 'minimum' wage even though that was the purpose of creating a legal minimum wage.
Employers are required to make up the difference in wage if the tipped worker doesn't make enough tips. Raising the federal minimum wage is the only necessary move (well, aside from fixing rent issues and other things that would ultimately kill the smaller businesses with a minimum wage increase but leave the huge franchises intact).
@@MadocComadrin In theory yes, in practice NO WAY. Employers will just find excuses to eliminate any employee they have to make up the difference in. So employees either have to lie about making enough tips when they don't, or they wind up jobless. Spend over 25 years in the restaurants and worked damn near every job in the business, from busboy to Restaurant General Manager. I've worked both major, well known national chains, to mom and pop franchises of lesser chains and even a single owner truck stop. Doesn't matter that much, either you claim enough make min whether you do or not or it's evidence you're not doing a good enough job and bye bye. The reduced wage for tipped employees needs to go.
@@kaseyboles30 Why wouldn't those people still be fired for poor service anyway? I imagine they'd actually be fired sooner because now they're costing the employer more every paycheck consistently as opposed to the times the employer had to make up the difference. Moreover, every person I've known who's worked a tipped job or gig has said they actually would prefer to be tipped because they make more than they would have with a wage significantly above minimum. Ultimately, I don't think small restaurants and the like would actually survive both eliminating tipping and raising minimum wage significantly simultaneously (or even just the latter in some circumstances). Those changes disproportionately favor wealthy franchises or restaurateurs. In the very least, it would be bad empirical practice to change both things at once. Raise minimum wage first (since that affects more people than just tipped workers), then look at tipping when that stabilizes.
@@MadocComadrin That's just it, those folk are fired for poor service if they don't claim to make enough, poor service to their bosses bottom line. It doesn't matter how good they are as I've seen the best servers in a restaurant get stiffed because the cooks were food burning slow pokes and the management assholes who made things worse, not making tips. Servers get tipped based on the WHOLE experience of the customer AND the culture and beliefs of the customer. Things completely out of their control. Back when min wage really was restaurants and others businesses made good money and paid their employees enough to live on. So eliminating the tipped wage cheat will only put badly managed restaurants out of business. These are the same ones that cut other corners and are oft on the edge of failing their next health inspection and charging employees for company uniforms at a huge markup and the like.
Restaurants need to be real careful because people don't need them to survive.
I've stopped tipping because 1. 95% of the time the service is not great and 2. they keep increasing their prices
I rarely go out to eat because I can cook better, cheaper food at home.
20 years ago I worked as a waiter for a few months. The pay was just over 2 bucks an hour and I had to input all the tips I got into the computer so the gov can tax it. Because of that my 2/hour disappeared. I also had to share my tips with the folks in the kitchen and we were told to fold napkins for 15 minutes AFTER clocking out. Then there are issues like when someone in the kitchen screws up and I get punished with no tips. The entire restaurant culture in the US is scummy as hell.
thats why I went to the trades. I have never had job piss me off as much as waiting tables. we pay them to work there and have to thank them for it! Slavery is less humiliating than that job!
You were told to log tips.... that'd more than my boss did. I was allowed to wait one table, then had to bus anything else while doing kitchen work. I was paid waitress wages.
Had I not been in high-school, with one other job opportunity just as bad, I wouldn't have spent three years there. I quit senior year because I was tired of working 20+ hours a week on top of school for less than $2 an hour.
Boss also let the other servers steal tips off tge tables I tended. She tried to make me work all her tables, but the boss put a stop to that because I was the only one keeping the back in order...
I wouldn't work food service unless I owned the place. And I'd run a no tipping establishment, because you should pay your employees properly.
Lie. Never ever be truthful about your tips. Management wants to force you to share? Keep at least half if possible before reporting. The business is scummy, so do what you have to do to get ahead
if you were being paid under min wage even after tips you were being scammed and had a legal case
Sounds like where you were working was taking you for a ride. if your paying the taxes on the tips, you dont share those with the house. Also what you are describing is illegal in most states.
Well if they're gonna start charging a "labor fee" then I guess we no longer have to tip. Right?
You don't have to tip now. You just have to worry about poor service or food adulteration next time you go there.
You never had to tip. No one is going to stop you at the door for being a terrible person. That's between you and your god if you have one
That's Argentina I believe, an item on the bill, iirc it's not put if it's fast food and takeout.
I doubt that's a 'gotcha'. I think the restaurant knows customers will see it like that, so essentially they're both making tips mandatory, as well as impossible for staff to sneak by management
Or reduce the tip
My wife and I were skiing in Palisades Tahoe a few weeks ago and there is a pizza restaurant in the village that we ate it. There was a sign saying that all take-out orders were assessed a 20% fee (I think it was 20% anyway) for some reason about paying their staff, blah blah blah. My wife wanted to get takeout and I was like "no way. I am going to sit here and be served and then have the choice over how much I want to tip instead". Then we got the bill and the "suggested" tips were 20%, 22% and 25%. Seriously? The bottom "suggested" tip is 20%? The entire tipping industry is out of control.
That is low. We went to a place year and a half a go and the fees were 50, 100, 150, 200% and super small no tip and other option. It was a tourist trap place. Subway If I recall last month was the same as what you said. I have seen a chinese buffet do 20 30 40 50%.
We have nearly been stuck with tips by accident and now have to start keeping an eye out. Its as bad as those charity things they used to do.
@@kameljoe21 1 of the reason why sandwich shops were popular was because you did NOT have to tip. Keep It Simple Salty. We desire grub, not a headache.
The tip is only suggested unless 6 or more people.
If under 6 people, you can tip what you feel.
@@arfriedman4577 It does not matter how many people there are. You do not ever need to tip. Just because there are 6 people does not mean its one check. It could be 6 checks and so on. A party's size does not matter because they could all show up and sit at all of the tables. There is no extra work that is required to serve a large party.
@kameljoe21 you have valid info.
In the past, ithis s what estaurants did. For 6 or more it was either 15% or 18% tip they added to your bill. It was written on the menu.
The guy bagging groceries at our grocery store does a great job, doesn't make much, but the store does not allow tips.
Nursing assistants do not make much money and most organizations do not allow tips for exceptional service.
It is interesting how some occupations allow, encourage and even mandate tips, while other do not allow them.
Gotta make sure those at the bottom know their place. :/
True, but blame the national RR association (do not know exact name), back in the 60's when minimum wage was the rage, their lobby helped pass legislation that allowed servers to be paid half the wage, with tips making up the difference. More to it I'm sure, but essentially wait staff has always been subject to the lower wage/tip standard.
I used to get to very rarely get a tip here and there working at a grocery store... May have been disallowed but it was infrequent. I've always declined at first but if the customer insists, then the customer is always right 😂
@@codemiesterbeats Was it minimum wage?
When the IRS decided that tips would be taxable, is when the whole tip/wage fiasco got started. A tip is or should be, for the servers work ethic, not for food or any other amenities that the dining place adjures. Raise the prices, and pay the help a living wage or close the doors.
Unbundling labor costs to reduce the tax calculation on a product seems like a good way to buy an audit and tax evasion charges.
The restaurant can't write off all of the employee wages off their business expenses because the customer is paying some of them 😂
It is gaming the existing system. Not tax evasion. There is a difference.
Cool. Let all companies do it like that. Like amazon or Ford. Should only make the gov lose several hundred billion dollars.... @@lrmackmcbride7498
You have no idea how right you are. The employee trust fund account fines has closed the doors of many good business. I have seen this unfortunately countless times 1st hand
@@lrmackmcbride7498 the fact its labeled as a "labor fee" or "service fee" are taxed, atleast in my state if the fee is REQUIRED, which it is in the case by the sounds of it, while optional tips/gratuity isnt taxed (to the one giving, it is income taxed to the receiver)
so in my state this 100% would be tax evasion
If a restaurant itemizes the labor cost, I'd expect the "food" cost of the bill to be cheaper than what I pay for the same item retail. Bulk discount and all...
The food cost is the smallest item on a restaurant's budget. Largest is the lease, with staff behind that. Equipment and maintenance I include in the lease, but after equipping a kitchen maintenance is a drop in the bucket.
@@ajobdunwell2585not even close, i've seen food expenses reach 50% while majority of labor costs are 30% or lower, which of that 30% is the management salaries around 10%. If your highest expense is the lease, you put the business in the wrong spot as rent and utilities shouldn't be over 15% of operating costs. Doing more than that on rent is setting up the business to fail and that explains why salaries are poor and food quality sucks.
@@TheFriskyClicker and @ajobdunwell2585 Doesn't that depend on the location of the restaurant? The financial goal of the business should be to maintain competitive margins regardless of how the costs are organized, but a location in a big city or airport such may have a different ratio than a diner on a dead spot of highway.
@@TheFriskyClicker amen, GM'd a Jimmy Johns doing $40k/week and I would lose my entire bonus if labor (including salaried employees, and a cut for the area super visor above me) was more than 30% of sales, and half the bonus if labor was over 20%.
Being I was profit shared I got to see profit & loss statements for each month, and the leases were 7.5% averaged across all the locations.
Y'all forget about insurance and regulatory fees.
This is messed up. My husband and I seldom eat out anymore. It's ridiculous. We can get store food and fix it ourselves thank you very much!
thats what you should do if your to cheap to pay the cost, restaurant business are always the bulleye for rising cost!!! things arent cheap to operate
@@user-rw1ph6xy8y What do you mean "too cheap?" Many people don't have the income to dine out anymore. It's not a matter of being cheap, it's a matter of being able to pay rent and other bills.
@@user-rw1ph6xy8ythings aren’t cheap to operate. Going out eat isn’t feasible anymore either.
Maybe the employer should pay their staff. If that’s too much for the employer to handle then go out of business.
I never tipped base on % because how does the price of the food have anything to do with the work the server does?
Restaurant prices are getting insane. It's nearly $20 for a meal at a restaurant when you add a tip. I can cook the same thing at home for less than half of that.
This happened to us yesterday. Not disclosed beforehand either. The town is 1.5 hours away from home, and I did not notice the fee until I was filing my receipts away at home later in the evening. All of this after having left a generous tip as well. We will not be returning to that restaurant, and will be posting it on social media today as well as yelping our experience. What a stupid thing to do, especially to a repeat customer. Now are we required to ask at the door if there will be additional fees added to the cost of the meal, that are not going to be disclosed until after the meal is delivered and eaten? This establishment has now lost all of out future business. Biting the hand that feeds them. Fools.
Your experience further adds reason for one to be diligent and assume they're going to be nickeled and dimed when using services. Goes for hotels, rental cars, etc. Personally, I eat out a lot less than I used to. Not just because of the cost, but the quality of service has declined. Good rule of thumb is add 30%-50% or more to the prices one sees shown on the menu to account for tip, fees, and taxes. For food delivery, double the listed prices.
@@ronbennett7885 Our perspective has now changed after this recent lesson. Like you, we have been eating out less often and have just prepared a picnic style lunch when it will work out. As the old saying goes "Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me".
so your telling me you would have been just fine with an extra $10 on the food, but your drawing the line at the fee?
@@Nope_handlesaretrash Yes. Same with credit card fees. Labor, card processing fees, electricity, rent, property taxes, supplies, etc. are part of the cost of doing business and business should take all those things (plus profit margin) into account when determining their prices. Surprise fees added at the point of sale should be illegal. Period. (If those fees are disclosed up front I won't patronize the business at all.)
And guess who are the ones gonna pay for your fancy meal and fees?? Fools.. 😂😂😂
Here in Colorado Springs the "View House" added a fee for the kitchen staff. I used to frequent but they will never see me again.
Charge enough for the food and drink to cover your costs and leave me out of the details of how you pay your employees.
The arrogant stupidity of this is incredible.
You should be grateful they decided to replace your normal tip with their new fee. If the fee is less that your normal tip then you come out ahead.
@@user-oe5ey3ex8b op said “added a fee”. Didn’t say “replaced tips with fee”.
How they pay there employees is called the bill. Guess what, you're also paying for the AC the heat the water the electricity rent gas taxes and everything else they have to buy to run the business. They can't print money so where do you think every single cent comes from?
How they pay their employees is part of covering their costs… Would you rather pay 20% more, plus additional sales tax, and mediocre service, or tip 15% for stellar service…? Either way you’re “covering labor”…
@@xamyx725A 15% tip is not a good tip. For stellar service it should be upwards of 25%.
Perkins tried to charge me a similar, "Supply Chain Fee," which they don’t tell you about until you're cashing out. They claim that it's on the front door and the _back_ of the menu. There's no food listed on the _back of the menu,_ so Who would even look? And who's reading small print on the door? They clearly try to hide it in places that no one will look, which is what makes it so underhanded. If you need to raise the prices, _raise the prices._ If you don't think the customers will appreciate a price increase, don't try to sneak it past them, either.
Completely agree. Well said
leave the exact cash for the food on the table and leave
If people actually tipped for the service & dining experience, these fees wouldn’t be necessary…
@xamyx725 or we could pay people a liveable wage instead of doing all this round about bs.
@@kamifuujin Well, you could be charged 25% more for the food, plus additional sales tax, or just tip 15%, and get the full service experience…
Tipping expectations are crazy and this will stop me from going to restaurants at all.
All you have to do kids is listen to your parents when they tell you to do your homework and do well in school then you can graduate and get a real job. You won't have to work in a restaurant as a server a dishwasher or a busboy scrounging for tips to make ends meet
@@anthonygallo3576 So you are pro immigration?
@@QwoaX what?
@@DMAC1301 If everyone was well-educated and became an attourney or PR agent, who do you think will do all the low-skill labour that keeps our civilization running? Apart from that, low-skilled labour also needs to be paid a living wage, somehow. Either via salary, tipping or if neither is the case, your car gets stolen, your house gets robbed or family members get kidnapped. Either way, someone is going to pay.
Ok don't go
Rather than just raising the prices on his menu that labor fee is similar to a local government instituting a "small" tax just to fill potholes even though the state has a heavy gas tax for road maintenance.
To complete the analogy, they base that small extra tax off your how much you spent on gas, but instead of it being calculated at the pump, they send you a surprise invoice at the end of the year.
@@MadocComadrin They do both.
You're looking at this wrong. I'd love to see this 4% "labor fee" on my bill as it would save me 16% from my usual 20% tip.
Nah.. Did you VOTE for the restaurant to be your masters?? 😂😂
@@jpnewman1688 I'm genuinely curious what you're trying to communicate here. You spam this comment all over this channel's videos' comment sections, and are generally roundly ignored because you make no sense. But this is even more nonsensical than usual, for you, so I'm curious.
On a similar note, restaurant delivery now typically has a delivery fee. This fee, as it was explained to me, was to pay for the wear and tear on the restaurant vehicles. I noticed that the vehicles used in my area are the employees own vehicles and the employees have stated they get none of the delivery fee and still expect a tip. It really makes it difficult to agree to a delivery fee and a tip for the delivery driver.
Just had thos happen when I ordered from PIzza Hut on the app. I did npot see the app defaulted to delivery, and it did not give the choice for delivery or pickup. I just updated it before the order, so it was in the update. I had to call the store, which went to a call center first, then the store and they fixed it for me. $4.99 for delivery plus a tip? Nope!
@@kriswingert1662 5.49 for Pizzahut to drive down the block to deliver to me. I just go pick up the pizza now and I order 1/6th as often. I guess that fee was great for business as there sales have dropped quite a bit since the increase from 2.49.
@@josephrankin6055 Here's the thing, there still a place to tip when you pick up your pizza.
@@GMAMEC I just prepay when ordering,, walk-in or go to the drive-thru if they have one, take the food, and say thank you. If the person is really polite and the food is usually good and right sometimes I'll leave a tip.
I stopped ordering from Pizza Hut and Dominos because of that $5 delivery fee. I asked the driver who uses their own personal vehicles do they get that $5 and they said no. So If I order a plain pizza it will cost me double because of the delivery fee and tip. So the business is getting $5 extra on every order, that's a rip off so I will never or delivery again. What a scam.
As far as I’m concerned, restaurants can charge whatever they want because I no longer go out to eat except for a special occasion. Previously I went out 2-4x a week for breakfast and/or dinner but since COVID began cooking at home and realized a ton of savings in doing so. Between high restaurant food prices, sales tax, tips, fee for using a credit card and now possibly a “labor fee” charge it’s just completely out of hand. For example, a 3 egg omelette with 2 slices of bacon, toast and coffee at my local diner is now $17.95. Tax $1.59 and $3.00 tip bringing a modest breakfast to $22.50. I now make the exact same thing at home for under $8.00.
It's still $8? Not $3-$4?
@@user-co7fb6qe5w nope. Not sure where you live, but supermarket prices have not gone down at all here. For a short period of time, eggs did drop in price but they are right back up there again.
@@MrScottie68 no disrespect intended. 2 eggs, 2 slices whole grain toast, 2 slices decent bacon and coffee in Cleveland Ohio is no more than $3-$4 adding up those ingredients fairly.
@@user-co7fb6qe5w No disrespect taken. However, the point of my original comment was to just say how cooking at home is so much cheaper than eating out. My “under $8” price is an estimate and includes not only the ingredients but also correctly factors in the cost of electricity to cook the bacon and eggs, make the toast and the coffee as well as the detergent and water to wash the pans and the dishes. Also, if you’ve been to NYC lately, you’ll know the prices of things here are significantly higher than Ohio.
@@MrScottie68 I've heard that and of course California
Loved the M*A*S*H reference....write in "pizza oven" I had the privilege of seeing Alan Alda in a play in London's West End in the early 90s. Waited outside after the play to get my Playbill autographed, but he had left already. Someone from the theater took my name and address and a few weeks later the autographed Playbill arrived at my apartment in New York. Thanks Hawkeye!
London was great, yet it was 1994. Cheers
"Scratch out 'machine gun' and write 'pizza'."
Today... not a long, long time ago... in a far-away land called Japan there is NO tipping. Take a taxi? No tip. Have a meal at a restaurant? No tip. Stay at a hotel? No tip. Tipping is so rare I've never heard of it in Japan. And the customer service is wonderful! I have been going to Japan since 1973 (eight trips), and the service has always been attentive and kind. Check it out!
Totally different culture.
It's nearly the same here in Australia with tipping being extremely rare.
I was in Kanazawa last year and stopped at a small restaurant for okonomiyaki with shrimp and a draft beer. Total price was $9. Found a place in Boulder, CO that has okonomiyaki and their price runs from $18-26 for just the food. Add the drink and expected tip and you're probably getting out of there for $40. Even factoring in exchange rates, I just can't understand why food is so much more expensive here , but it's probably government related.
@@2006Whippet don't kid yourself, it is about profit.
Same in China and Koreans
Won't be an issue. I avoid all restaurants with mandatory "gratuity" (that's not gratuity) or any other type of service fee. Alamo Drafthouse started putting an 18% service fee on all food and drinks recently, at least here in San Antonio. Buh-bye!
This is 4.5%, are you saying you just generally refuse to tip? Most people tip at least 15%, this is a huge decrease by about 10.5%. I'm not double tipping and they just took away my responsibility to figure out a "fair" tip. Now if they raised it to 18% I'd avoid them.
Benihana steak houses also include a mandatory tip. You find out when you get your check.
Legally, they can't make the mandatory gratuity mandatory. They have to remove it from the bill upon request. Every time someone has been arrested for dine and dash for not paying the mandatory gratuity, they get the charges dismissed.
Wow, that seems like a lot.
@@GeorgeWashingtonLaserMusketDo you tip your landlord?
“We care so much about our employees that we want you to pay an additional fee rather than us just raise prices.” You can use whatever excuse you want to use but at the end of the day it’s a guilt trip to get you to pay the employees more so the owner doesn’t have to.
And they don't have to print more menus.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA you think the employees are getting any of that money? HAHAHAHA thanks i needed a laugh
That and/or a temper tantrum over society starting to actually care about the working class.
The owner is not likely paying the employees more.
This makes no sense, the customer has always paid for the employees. There's no magic well in the back that the owner uses to pay people. The only revenue source for a restaurant is the customer. So when you buy a burger, you're paying for the beef, bun, stove, fridge, shipping, chef's pay, server's pay, rent, insurance, advertising, and the table who walked out without paying.
The first and only time I ever went on a Cruise, there were a lot of automatic tips on our bill. Since we have never gone before, we didn't have a clue about these things. We NEVER had anyone in to clean our room. We are very tidy and don't like people in our room. My GF had disputed all the Fees we didn't use and they did take them off. CRUISES are the most notorious for Automatic charging of "Tips". That was 25 years ago. I haven't been on a Cruise since. When you look at the fees, it's over the amount of the actual trip (so it's over double what you see online). Total waste of time, and money.
We always stop the automatic tips on board ship the very first day of any cruise we take. We wii tip only the people who give us extra special service
I am Danish, and in Denmark the waiters does not expect a service fee. They are paid by their employer.
I'm curious how much a meal costs? Here a sandwich or burger is around $10US.
@@dianeladico1769 in Sweden a quarter pounder with cheese menu cost about $9 us with tax.
We visited Copenhagen for a week last year & had entirely wonderful experiences at each restaurant and coffee shop we visited. This is the way.
@@bengtandersson2649 Thank you, I was wondering how paying a standard wage affects meal prices. Between rising food costs and all the other expenses (rent, utilities, insurance, etc.) small family dine-in restaurants are barely hanging on.
I don't know how much they'd raise the prices, but we get a nice sandwich, a side of fries and a drink for two for under $30. This is a dine-in place with table service, not counter self-serve. The portions are generous so an extra $10 for a tip is fine. If they made it no tip and each meal was $20 I'd be OK with that, too.
Trouble is the cheapskates who don't tip would go elsewhere.
I was in Billund and my contact took me out to a very fancy dinner (for me anyway.) It was somewhat uncomfortable when it came to bill time. As an American, I wanted to leave a couple of Euros to the wonderfully attentive waitress that provided spectacular service. I was basically told by both the host and the server that my desire to tip would be seen as an insult. I also really got a kick out of the chip and pin at the table. At no time does a server ever touch your payment method.
Guess what? We have decided that restaurants seem to believe they are entitled. they have raised prices and other fee's that seem to be over the top and taking advantage of their customers because of their industry changes. So, as a result of our evaluations for this activity, we no longer visit the restaurants as often as we have due to the higher costs and nothing in return regarding service or food quality. This applies much to the fast food industry as it does to the many restaurants. Two people having to pay $50 for a simple breakfast or lunch is just ridiculous and they expect the tips to be based on the check total ! Forget them...we have options.
That is wise. The problem is too few Americans have that wisdom. If Americans collectively cut back on dining out by 25%, I promise you restaurants would be dropping prices.
My husband and I took this stance in 2015 when we went to freaking mcd and we each bought a value meal. Regular size value meals came to 23$ USD. For that price we can go to a sit-down restaurant. However sit-down restaurant prices got way more expensive, and their portions got much smaller. So now literally we go out to eat a restaurant like twice a year we rather just order a pizza if we don't want to cook.
Because the government has decided that the customers are responsible for assisting restaurants to pay the employees salaries. What happens if the government decides We the People must tip retail/grocery employees, which then allows those businesses to pay less per hour?
@@pastramionrye247 Part of the problem with that idea is that due to the increased costs of doing business these days combined with the increasing inelasticity of people's price tolerance, the restaurants would more likely just go out of business. Just look at what's going on in California with their new $20/hr fast food labor minimum wage - restaurants cannot increase their prices to cover it, so they just call it a day and close instead.
Yeah, cook your own food. It is much better and better for you. Real butter instead of the yellow "grease".
I am being 100 percent truthful, I have not been to a bar, restaurant, or fast food place since 2020 when the covid lock downs happened. I got used to not going and didn't miss it so i stopped. I have saved tons of money and 1000's of hours by not hanging around those places. I as well as others do host get togethers, dinners, and pool parties kinds of things to socialize with friends.
That is all well & good. But when you have no true friends, a What A Burger w/jalapenos is so good in solitude, words can not describe.
@irishamerican455 and when you get tired of cooking or coming up with something different that you usually don't cook
I hadn’t eaten at a fast food joint for a few years before I drove cross-country recently. MAN, talk about sticker shock. It’s like everybody got together and decided that the bare minimum out-the-door cost is now $10.
I recently drove my small RV cross country, It's a gas hog, but compared to what the hotels and restaurants I didn't patronize cost it was a bargain. When I overnite in a Cracker barrel parking lot I do by breakfast there, it's only fair.
@@ariochiv It is perfectly fine to be you. That is what this life is all all a bought.
I hope you never find your self in my spot.
I hope you always have true friends to share every moment. That really is the life to envy.
Several years ago we learned that some restaurants were deducting the cost associated with the use of a credit card from the tip put on the credit card which was intended for the waiter/waitress. We then started leaving the tip in cash and not adding tip to the bill being paid by the credit card. You cannot believe the response we get from waiter/waitress at all restaurants since starting this practice. Makes you wonder about this industry.
That's what I do, too.
Labor fee you say? So I don't have to tip, cool.
As long as it's clearly displayed.
@Steve, it all started during the great depression, restaurant owners took advantage of the situation and basically said "Well I won't pay you but you can work for charity from my customers"
Actually tipping started at the end of the Civil War (1850-1860s) with formerly enslaved people and immigrants. Employers took advantage of this class of "low-educated, low-income" workers. It really should be made illegal because it did come from racism and it's exploitive.
@BeerMoneyforTokyo yup. Servers were white males. No tipping in the US until reconstruction. Then black workers were hired for next to nothing, but customers were encouraged to tip.
Honestly, the exact details seem to be up in the air. However, it started long before the Great Depression and plenty of businesses were strictly against it.
Keep in mind that tips use to be paid in advance, essentially as a bribe, “To Insure Prompt” service. The problem was that some frontline service providers would sometimes accept tips to perform actions that hurt the business. You know, like cancel another customer’s reservation to make room for a tipper, or give the person free products after being given a large tip.
I won't go to any restaurant that adds that or 'health care' fees or anything else. I. DON'T. NEED. THEM. Alienate customers at their own peril.
Some local codes or ordinances require the small businesses, including restaurants, offer healthcare insurance to their employees.
people who don’t pay people a fair
wage are garbage
I'd love this 4% labor fee in place of my normal 20% tip. This saves us 16%... Why would you be against this?
@@user-oe5ey3ex8b that allows them to tack on other ridiculous percentages on-top of it never underestimate the lengths restaurants will go to.
@@Rkbmomma I'd imagine they also have to pay an electric bill and probably either a phone bill or for internet service. Those things are called "the cost of doing business". If they'd like to itemize everything, go ahead. The more fees that appear on a receipt, the more their customers are going to bristle at it. Eventually, it will cost the restaurant a lot of customers.
I went to park at a parking lot at a public park in Memphis yesterday. Over 40% of the bill was to fees. They had a fee for "descriptive credentials" Even though they weren't even printing out a ticket It was all through an app. Multiple fees and taxes. Just charge me a price and divvy it up however you feel Don't advertise a price and then add a bunch of fees
Yeah that stuff crawls my ass 😂
I will not patronize any place that does ridiculous stuff like that... At least not again 😂
Reminds me of Ticketbastard 👹
That’s to show you that it’s not the property owner who is gouging you on the prices, but rather it’s the city.
I went to the public park a quarter mile down the road with free parking and walked since that's what I was there to do anyway. It was also on the way
@@johnp139 And you'd believe them?
I love that i live in a country where the price on the menu is the price you pay. All staff are paid for by the business. Tips are fully optional and generally for good service and/or food.
You are lucky
I naver give tips
There are some Countries where tips are not even expected.
It is pretty crazy when the price show $11.99, but your final bill is more than $18. What's worse is when you get less food if you order it beforehand for carryout rather than eating at the restaurant, but the price of the food is the same.
These places are such scams and they care nothing about their customers. I say boycott the restaurant industry until they get their shit straightened out.
Steve: Many years ago the mayor of the city of Columbus, Ohio wrecked a city owned car downtown at 3:00 am in the morning. The city police investigated the scene but did not give him a sobriety test. The mayor told them that he was simply out inspecting the city when he ran off the street. Years afterward, there were a large number of vehicles with bumper stickers that read " I'm not drunk - I'm just inspecting the city". lol
Columbus has a corrupt government
I read once (no citation, source could have been flawed) that US tipping culture started out exactly the opposite. Inns or taverns didn't have servers at all, and poor folks or kids would go get your food for you and you'd give them a tip. It eventually came to be that people expected service, and restaurants started paying the good/attractive servers to hang around their place. They didn't pay full wages because the waitress "got to" keep their tips.
In the USA, it has its origins in slavery. When slavery was abolished, bosses still didn't want to pay their black workers.
@@davidbroadfoot1864Now that sounds more like how it began knowing the disgusting history of this country ✌️
@@thomasmoroney1079 - For the record, most countries have a disgusting history and slavery existed in about every country in the world before the US even existed.
@@thomasmoroney1079 It went on from that to being a way that women were discriminated against too.
@@dewrus2153 True, and for the record, it was often black people enslaving white people.
I waited tables while going to college, I never expected a tip from any of my customers but appreciated every time that they left a tip.
Good for you
As it should be, I was a waitress when I was 16 and really enjoyed it.
na people should be tiping the chef not the people who just bring you the food
@@deesmith8576 cooks usually get paid pretty good compared to the wait staff. Tips are to reward good service, not replace a poor wage.
@@DevMeloy sorry do you make the food taste any better?
Around the world, labour costs are included in the price of the meal.
That means waiters/waitresses are paid at least minimum wage.
That means that any tip left is actually a tip, not a wage supplement.
I have never understood why the USA does it differently.
Yes, it is a wage supplement. It is why they were implemented. They are income that is taxed.
@yxmichaelxyyxmichaelxy3074 no tips are not taxed.
Never have been.
I have worked in the restaurant industry for many years, and tips do not have to be declared unless they go through PAYEE, because they are on a card and go through the payslip.
All cash tips are considered free of tax.
So you are wrong.
@@tkralva.6668
'Tips And Gratuities Are Taxable Income and Can Be Insurable Earnings. Subsection 5(1) of the Tax Act stipulates that a taxpayer's income for a taxation year from employment includes gratuities received by the taxpayer in that year.'
Duuuhhhhh.....
If you receive $20 or more per month on cash tips, report that income to your employer. Your employer will report your tip income on your W-2, Box 7. The Law assumes an average tip rate of 8%, and expects employees to report at least 8% of the gross food and drink sales.
….ooops typo, on my previous post, I meant Box-1(wages, tips and other compensation) Box-7 is the(social security tips).
The small mom & pop shops are definitely the ones I end up tipping the most. Fantastic food, great service, and as Steve mentioned, they remember you. The server ends up comping me some items or gives me random discounts so it’s all good, but the best part, as soon as we walk in the door (before being seated), they get the order in and it’s like a 3-5 min wait for our entire meal 😂
They need to eliminate tipping and just raise the prices of the food. There should be no fees on your bill. Any fees IMHO are theft.
A couple of restaurants in Detroit have tried that. They have gone back to tips. The waitstaff will usually revolt, as they can make a *lot* more on tips. Depends on the restaurant and the server, of course.
So servers should work for free?
I honestly believe tipping should be illegal.
@@AmbientShadesthere’s minimum wage laws against that. You just can’t imagine a world where servers work for your scraps.
@@lucristianx Federal minimum wage for servers is $2.13 an hour. It hasn't changed since the 1970s and with the exception of a handful of states, most follow the federal minimum. Servers make their living on tips. This person thinks tips should be eliminated, which means they want free service, essentially.
Worked at a high end place where we had a few regulars who would tip 500 to $1,000. fortunately all of our staff agreed to pool tips. This ensures they are one team and if a customer asks for anything from anyone there incentivized to get it. Also when that guy came in no one fought over who was going to serve him because they all knew they were going to split it.
I believe in in the near future, you will not have people going out to eat!!!!!
It will start with the families refusing to pay these high prices then we will go down to a couples!!!!
I myself no longer go out to eat, been that way for 4 years now!!!
It’s amazing the money you can save cooking for yourself!!!!!
I cook large meals that I can get 2 to 3 days out of!!!
This way, I’m not cooking every day!!
Have you noted a weight decrease? I have. If the prep takes a certain amount of time that compares with the consumption time you are more likely to eat less or prepare less food. I think this explains why I see UberEats or DoorDash users with a weight problems. Almost instant gratification.
We have been doing this as well.
We do occasionally get a pizza, no tip, we go to pick it up. It’s hot, too.
We go out maybe once a year, and I research their fee structure. We used to go out all the time! Or get takeout. No more. I make a menu for the week, we buy groceries, and I cook. I miss eating out, but now I have money for my hobbies! So fun.
In my area, restaurants are as busy as ever and servers are making plenty of money. I think there is a huge difference between what you read online and what actually happens irl.
I remember visiting Florida on a military exchange exercise, back in '97. We were staying in hotels, getting paid a daily stipend to pay for food, breakfast was included in the hotel room, so I had a crap load of money in my hands more than usual.
Whilst I was probably the typical ignorant Brit, not being aware of US tipping culture, I know I did good good on some occasions.
One night I decided to order in pizza with some extras, came to just over $13 I was told over the phone; I assumed they would add delivery on top of that, when the delivery guy showed up I asked him how much extra was needed, he explained that was all in.
I handed him a 20 and he asked how much change I wanted, I told him to keep it, as I'd been expecting to pay more on top anyway. Even now, I can still remember the look of disbelief on his face as he thanked me, which surprised the hell out of me.
Back then 10-15% tip would be fair for delivery, so he was only expecting $2 or less for a tip.
If it ain't clearly disclosed on the menu, I ain't paying it. I'd rather a restaurant just make serving a salaried position, and not take tips.
You mean hourly, not salary.
That's what they're doing bruh. You're paying for food and labor of the server, instead of paying for food and tipping the labor. The math is pre-done to a degree. Now you won't have to tip too.
That will never happen. As much as waitstaff complain about only making money through tips, they wouldn't want it any other way. And neither would the restaurant.
We stopped going out. One less thing to worry about
North America is pretty much the only place in the world where customers are expected to pay gratuity to supplement the Owner's labor cost.
Tipping in the US is insane. In most of the other countries I've been to, you don't tip much, if at all, and definitely not the insane 20%. Some places see tipping as an insult! The waiters and waitresses receive a full salary like anybody else.
How things got the way they are in the US is beyond me.
Staffing up? So does the business!
I double the tax, might round up (7-8% in this area) But I eat out 2-3x a YEAR so y’all wait staff are safe from broke me
20% try now there is talk of 25% or 30% in some places. I've been to Portugal and just as you said little to no tip that's how it works there.
To me this new 4% labor fee solves this problem. I'll pay this instead of my normal 20% saving me 16%.
tipping started as a way to ensure good service from low paid servie workers but do you know WHEN it started...... post civil war i think our economy is doing a biiiit better than it was back them it's time to abolish tipping and tell these greedy fucks it's time to pay your workers at least a minimumwage
In most of not all countries in Europe your tip is included in your bill. That's why you think you're not tipping
I’m 46yrs old and I’ve never tipped in my life. We just pay our workers a liveable wage. The price is the price. Good service is a given because good service means return business.
This brings up the issue I’ve had for years with costs being separated in the first place. Sales tax should also be folded into the price. The customer should see what they are going to pay, period.
And before anyone says that won't work, we do it at the pumps every fill up. The price you see is what you pay
The USA loves to claim that things won't work that actually do work in other countries. For example, in Australia...
1. Taxes are rolled into the retail price, and in the interests of clarity, it is against the law to even itemise the tax.
2. Sensible gun control laws
3. Metrification
@@davidbroadfoot1864Not gonna lie- you had me in the first half
@@davidbroadfoot1864 "in the interest of clarity, it is against the law to even itemize the tax."
That really sounds like its more in the interest of avoiding backlash for excessive tax rates.
@@catgirlvs72 Not at all. That rule was introduced when Australia moved from a 20% wholesale tax on goods to a 10% retail tax on goods and services. The 10% tax rate was well-publicised. The sole purpose of not allowing it to appear on retail price lists, menus, and advertising was to avoid confusion and misleading advertising.
On the other hand, that tax must be itemised clearly for all business-to-business transactions.
@@davidbroadfoot1864 You lose credibility when you start spouting your foolish political opinions.. bye bye
I laughed at the signs located at some fast food places. Sign at DRIVE THRU window- "Due to increased food costs, we are temporarily adding a 99¢ surcharge to all orders."
These signs are FADED and at least 2 years old.
nothing lasts longer than something involving money that is temporary
income tax was a temporary measure during WWII
@@Daves_Not_Here_Man_76So true! It’s like every time a government introduces a temporary tax to pay for a new stadium or some other project. That tax will still exist and will be increasing long after the stadium is torn down.
What really makes me mad about this is that if the boss added it as a fee, you can be certain they are at the very least skimming off the top, while claiming they don't. This is just one more way to steal wages and underpaying employees.
The very reason I tip with cash to the waiter/waitress personally. They work hard and deserve every dime.
Cost tend to creep up linearly whereas price tend to increase incrementally(like stairs). So even in a healthy and honest business, it tend to cycle between owner fronting the cost and owner skimming off the top.
Restaurants isn't the most stable or profitable of business, so it is highly unlikely that all of them can get away from continuously skimming off the top more and more, simply due to the economics.
Worked for years in the restaurant/hospitality industry. It's a very tough business. However the shared tip generally isn't much and it's usually shared with the bussers,hostesses,and bartenders. It's usually a small percentage of total sales. Usually 1or 2 percent. So i.e. $500 in sales = $5-10 to other staff. So $20 to $30 tip share.
This is absolutely done for the restaurants to save on labor wage. Now they can pay bussers $5/hrs +tips. Etc.etc. IMO...all restaurants should pay everyone the current minimum wage period...AND if the employees get tipped they share it with the entire staff.
Sorry- if I earned the tip, I'm keeping it 💯
It's literally the same as raising prices, but 100x more repulsive
If it's disclosed why do you have a problem with it? Do you not tip and are mad you're being forced to pay a modest tip of 4-4.5%? I usually tip 15-20%, if they include a mandatory labor fee I will be tipping zero because clearly they've done the math and that 4.5% is all they need.
@AngryAmericanWizard they could simply raise menu prices the same amount without putting a hidden fee on the bill.
Or just more honest.
"Labor fees" have always been part of pricing. Every store includes labor costs in their pricing even if it is not spoken of. It's just how business works.
In this incidence, they seem to be adding an additional fee, assuming their initial pricing already accounted for labor costs (and we all know it did). But adding a new fee and labeling it "labor" sends a very specific message. Will be interesting to see what happens.
You've all missed the point raised by the owner of the restaurant:
If the prices were increased by that amount, you would end up paying more in sales tax. By adding the labour as a separate item it's actually going to save you, the customer, more money than if they increased the prices.
This has been a point of contention for me for years....I grew up in Las Vegas and in Vegas the culinary union is very strong and basically if you try to NOT pay minimum wage, the culinary will try to organize you, which is far more expensive than paying the minimum wage. Hopes this all makes sense so far....the interesting part is that many of the chain restaurants on and near the strip all charge similar prices to their other restaurants across the nation where servers are paid wages as low as $2.70 / hour. If they can pay that in Vegas where rent and supplies are much higher than other places across the country, EVERYONE can pay higher wages.
How do you like Capitalism?? 😂😂😂
The Vegas culinary union is "very strong" . No s__ ?
@@jpnewman1688 I love capitalism. I just believe if the minimum wage is 7.35, everyone that works for someone should get it...I guess the real question is how do you like politics? Politicians allow this.
I'm not a lawyer, but I'd think employees (who are not in the unions) and employers could probably sue the union for price fixing.
@@Gamebuster there is no price fixing, it is simple (at least in my opinion) pay minimum wage....if you fail to do this, or fail to protect your employees, the union will try to organize the employees....Why is it that IBM never had any union activities? ...because they took care of their employees in both financial and thoughtful benefits....Why is it that at my company we never had any employees leave? Because we paid competitive wages, (below what the union employees were getting) gave every employee a company car, company credit card, I personally shook every employees hand and thanked them regularly...I treated them like I wanted to be treated. Take care of your employees and they will take care of and protect the company...it is simple and it is not easy.
One thing to know is that most states do not allow employers to require tipped employees to share their tips unless they are paid at least the standard hourly minimum wage before tips. That doesn't stop many restaurant owners from implementing illegal tip pools, which is essentially tip theft. Also, similar fees are WAY higher in other places. I'm in the DC area and large majority sit down restaurants have some version of this fee now. Some even stack multiple fees (labor fee, supply chain surcharge, inflation surcharge). I plan on a Minimum of 10% and often see 15-20% (none of them are gratuity, so none of them are guaranteed to go to the staff).
Of course it is theft. Theft by the co-workers.
When the "resort fee" idiocy began, I pondered if they were doing that to avoid the taxes and fees that local and state govt charged hotels, figuring that'd be a clever way for them to sneak around those. But no, they still pay the fees on those (at least in Las Vegas). So really, the only possible purpose of having a $45 resort fee on a $50 room is to falsely advertise the price.
So... how is it a "labor fee" is not hit with the sales tax? The state and county and city are cool with that? And if they are, why wasn't this done all along even to pay the minimum wage?
Labor is not taxable in Michigan.
I stayed at a "resort" last month that charged $35 per day "experience fee". When I asked them what it was for, they said "It's to pay for the wifi, the gym, the parking and anything else you may want to use while on property." Well, the wifi barely worked, I didn't use the gym but I did park my car on their property overnight. I don't understand why they don't itemize everything instead of lumping it into one "fee"; they sure as hell itemized all the taxes I was being charged.
@@garyszewc3339 When I go into McD and order a bigmac meal, do I pay sales tax on 80% of it because the other 20% is "labor"?
@@davidp2888 All totally understandable if you simply ignore what they say. The fee is because they want it. And they want it hidden in the advertised price. The TV ad says "$35* PER NIGHT!!!" and in unreadable fine print on the TV is says "* $45/night mandatory resort fee not included in price".
It's total sham.
I believe the powerful NRA (National Restaurant Association) lobbied during the great depression and since to enable their members not to have to pay their waitstaff. But still order them around as if they were paying them. The tipping system is a horrible mess that causes stress and alienation for customers and waitstaff. But restaurant owners like it. Btw, This is only in America. Some restaurants have started paying a living wage and eliminated tipping. They all should.
Of course, some restaurant owners like it, it enables them to advertise false prices.
A business that can't afford to pay or won't pay a market wage to it's employees, shouldn't be in business in the first place.
Alternatively, just deduct the unilaterally imposed "service charge" from whatever tip the patron was going to pay or leave no tip at all. If the watier/waitress asks the reason for leaving no tip, explain that the owner has already taken care of it with the service charge.
Lol, the great untold or unrealized talking point in this argument is that a great many servers ardently do not want to move away from tipping; they would make so much less money.
This is a spectrum with some people making near minimum wage, of course, but there are also many servers making really good money on tips. I guarantee you those people do NOT want to do away with tips.
When employees make more money on unemployment than they would working for you, you’re the problem.
fail to tip at your own peril, There will be repercussions, have no doubt.
It's not the waiter's decision to implement these policies. Your way to get back at the business is to give them more money and then say fuck you to the person already being screwed over by them.
@@DellikkilleD Adulterate my food at your own peril. There will be repercussions, have no doubt.
In the last two years, I have mostly just stopped eating at restaurants, because they have raised their prices far more than overall nationwide inflation has risen. I do not want to help restaurant owners and executive level employees get wealthier, while I struggle along at a low-level income. The regular staff are truly trying to make a living, but the owners, investors, and executives are trying to make way more than a living - like literally double or triple or quadruple what the waiters and cooks and dishwashers make - and they are trying to do it at the expense of the common guy who is struggling to make a living himself. If the restaurant owners were content to live on a personal income of $50,000 to $65,000 per year, then they could pay their staff fairly. Corporate and entrepreneurial greed suck.
Yep. Plus, UA-cam has made it easier than ever to cook a wide range of amazing things at home.
You are right. An awful lot of this is pure profit-taking.
I'm not sure you understand capitalism? If you own the business you take all the risk including the fact that if the business loses money you lose money. That is typically why owners make what they make. @TomReichner
@@DAHerr oh, I understand capitalism all too well. The privileged think they're taking so much risk, but even if they "lose everything" they still have more left than someone like me will ever have. They not only have business assets, but in addition to that, they have personal assets that are not part of their business. Some of us have worked a lot in our lives, and yet don't have either business assets or personal assets.
@@TomReichner If you are an American I hope that you understand that our poor are considered rich out of the US. You can take less than a year's salary abroad and live like a king in many nations worldwide. Honestly, you need to figure out what hustle you are willing to take on. PS if you fail like most of us do it's ok just try again.
Tipping was started from the prohibition era when restaurants owners were no longer allowed to serve alcohol. To cut cost they came up with a way to make tipping servers with what is now called gratuity. But when prohibition was repeal they would never change the gratuity, or tipping, from their servers. And Steve is right, where I tip good they will remember you, even if they never know your name. So be nice to your servers because remember that they are bringing your food to you. if you know what I mean, hint hint.
Food is already too expensive. I'm done eating out. They can charge whatever they want.
As a tourist in Capetown back in 2015, I was on a bike day trip to Cape of Good Hope with a bunch of 20-25 kids from different countries. One girl was also from Canada, from Toronto.
When asked what she doing, she says she works as a waiter in Toronto, and her life currently is that she works bars/restaurants for 1/2 a year, and then travel the world for 1/2 year on earned money. Admittedly, part of her strategy was that she was not renting a place in Toronto, but couch-surfing at friend's places.
Just think how she could have traveled if she had someone feeding her, too. Betting she paid in *some* fashion.
A lot of restaurants are overtly blaming their price hikes on the cost of labor when their labor costs have gone up a significantly lower percentage than their menu prices. The restaurants are raising prices mainly because their prices for food have gone up. By blaming their employees for the price hikes, patrons feel they don't have to tip (or at least not as much) so the employees actually end up making *less* than they were before 2020, the customers can pay the same prices as before 2020 (after reducing the tip), and the restaurant owners don't lose customers over increased prices because after tip reductions they can pay the same. Then they complain that nobody wants to work!
All good, I havent bothered with restaurants since 2021 😂
Your greed and poor service has saved me so much money!!!!
my brother's brother lives in australia. He says tipping is not a common or required thing. He says no-one depends on tips to earn their living. He says service is fine, and if any particular person doesn't give good service, they get the arse, same as any other job in the country.
He says it's a simple concept.
My issue is that good service shouldn’t be based on if they think you’ll tip well, it should be the standard because that is their job
This is just unrealistic and fails to understand the industry.
Tipping isn't just outsourcing the payment to customers directly but also the management of that pay. Restaurant managers can say, "You want more pay? Work more shifts, earn better tips." Since tips are generally tied to the amount of revenue a server brings in, that structure incentivizes high performing servers (whether it's because they truly provide the best service or it's just they are really hot) to be successful.
Eliminate that direct link and service will go downhill because managing people is hard work. Restaurant managers aren't usually that great at it. Much easier to allow self-selection.
I don't make the rules but if we eliminate tipping the quality of service will drop.
@x--. youre fundamentally incorrect. i spent two weeks in germany where servers are paid per hour. my service was as good as it was there as it is in the states
Look at the bright side, this 4% labor fee will save me 16% because it will replace my usual 20% tip.
It is, in Japan.
@@x--. Re your comment "This is just unrealistic and fails to understand the industry" ... I own a restaurant where the staff provides great service because they are nice people who love to do a good job. Customers who don't tip get the same great service every time they return.
Re your comment "if we eliminate tipping the quality of service will drop" ... please stop to have a think about why other countries that do not have tipping provide better service than is found in the USA.
We have stopped MOST all eating out at a restaurant now. Even fast food is sky-high nowadays. I got a regular Star burger medium meal for my daughter (requested no pickle or onion, which I realize makes no difference in the price), and 3 chicken tenders for myself. The tenders were not in a meal and they were very small pieces...about the size of my index finger. I almost fell over when I was told it would be $18.00 (plus change). I couldn't believe it. Mind you, it was not a LARGE, but a MEDIUM meal. I am done with all fast food, as well.
I am fortunate to be retired so that I am home and can make nice, hot, homemade meals for my husband and teenage grandson who lives with us. It also helps to know how to stretch food nowadays. They both love homemade food and it is so much cheaper, especially when there are leftovers.
Look, if you want to pay your workers more, raise your prices, don't hide a charge by listing it in the small print somewhere. If they are avoiding increasing prices, then they are diverting tax revenues.
Many of your upscale servers would have to be paid $50 + in order to equal what their tips normally pay
Tut avoiding taxes, how naughty.
Didn't sound hidden to me, but the price for a sit down meal going up by $2 sounds very marginal.
@@andrewbatts7678 Okay, sure. What's the problem? The customer would be paying the same either way.
I think the local tax authorities are not going to accept his attempt to dodge taxes.
This is the real question. Does their local/state tax authority actually differentiate between food and labor?
The authorities are the only ones who shouldn't have anything to say about it.
@@MickeyD2012 That doesn't make any sense. What's the point of an authority that has no authority?
Is regular tipping "tax dodging"? I'm pretty sure sales tax isn't applied to tips. You could argue that this is basically a mandatory tip so it should be treated similarly.
@@x--. I would be surprised if they actually didn't. Labor is definitely in a different bucket than other expenses for a business, such as food easily on the federal level, so for the state and local taxes to be different on that would be honestly surprising.
Aww you explained the MASH reference. I was hoping it'd just be an in joke for us grunts on the line! Great show!
I will not eat at restaurants where a tip is mandatory, let alone where a "labor fee" is charged! I also believe that a tip should only go to the server who was at your table and not shared with other employees, working at OTHER tables! That money was earned by THAT EMPLOYEE for providing great service with a great attitude! Those are personal traits that are not shared by ALL employees!
@stevelehto The origin of American tipping came out of the great depression. Before tipping was seen as rude and as a way to pay off someone for service before others. But as money became scarce, and as those still with money to go to restaurants generally had more money to spare, employers started to promote the idea of cutting staff wages to put the burden of paying on the customer. It started from the goodwill of helping those who were fortunate to even have jobs during tough times, and then entrenched itself from there.
A Subway I visit, if you pay with a card, it will ask how much you want to tip. I stopped visiting that fast food restaurant.
In my mind, it's the same as a register asking you to "round up" the bill for 'charity." Uh, no. No, I do not want to "round up." It's organized begging on an industrial scale.
@@TechGorilla1987 goodwill does that, 100% of their inventory is free and donated.....SO YOU GIVE TO THE CHARITY GOODWILL!!
@@TechGorilla1987 Yes. It is a method of "guilt tripping" people into parting with more of their hard earned money at the point of sale. We have a handful of well researched local and national charities that we feel comfortable donating to out of our meager fixed income. So many "charities" are nothing more than fronts for personal profit for the "organizers". Every time I hear someone say "I run a non-profit" and then see them climb into their Mercedes AMG or Bentley and drive off, I remember why we carefully research any charity that we are willing to support. Way too many scammers out there. You have to be very careful about who you donate to, if anyone now.
Many years ago, friends & I decided to go to a well known steakhouse chain in central London. We walked in & sat down. I noticed on the table menu that there was a £15 per person "Seating" charge. When I discussed this with my friends, we immediately decided to leave. As we were walking out, a waitress ran over & tried to make us pay. You can guess the response.
Generally I'm the first to tip if the food & service is good. Anything from 10 - 20%, but not if either are substandard. Many restaurant stories from the UK, mostly not good. People become complacent with poor service.
so you are a thief. shame they didnt have you arrested
Make you pay for what, siting down?
@@DellikkilleDdid you not read what he said bruh? They didn't order anything
@@everythingpony its not an ordering fee, is a seating fee. they sat. they sat themselves, which is honestly worse still.
@@everythingpony thats literally what the sign said champ. their pub, their rules. dont like it, dont go, but you dont get to refuse to pay for a service you clearly used.
They've had the automatic Tip for big tables (usually 6 or more), for probably 20+ years, in a lot of places. But it's usually a nicer, upscale restaurant that you see that on. The funny thing is, I've always tipped better than that 15% automatic tip charge. So when they put that on there, that's what I would pay. I would love an America where we don't tip anymore. It's getting ridiculous. Now you see tip lines on just about every type of business. For what? Doing your job? I do Accounting and Bookkeeping....I've NEVER received a tip for that service. It wouldn't make sense.
That would be the last time I went there
Exactly
+ 1
Yup
The invisible hand of the market will make his presence known, and they will blame anything but themselves for their failure.
I've had lots of "last times" over the past couple of years.
Thanks for the pizza explanation I saw that sticker the other day and wondered where it fit in.
If I go to any restaurant and there's any fees added I would consider that the tip and would never ever but never ever return to that establishment. Even if the service was outstanding there would be NO TIP GIVEN!
Oh no, you are still expected to tip - and add a little something extra for back of house people too, don't you know? (End sarcasm)
I went to a Korean restaurant while on vacation just a few months ago in a city I don't travel to very often. Just two of us. Food we ordered was around $100. By the time they added in city tourist taxes, service fees, state tax, cooking fee and mandatory "group" tip our bill was over $200. And the waitress actually complained at us on the way out that we didn't leave an additional cash tip on the table.
Worst than that, it's a hibachi in the table Korean barbecue where you cook your own food, wait staff just brings you plates with cut meats on it and leaves you alone.
@@Vincent_Beers WOW for real? I live in DFW area and we never have any fees or additional taxes just regular sales tax and for tips we double the sales tax. I figure it's around 15 to 18 percent.
@@Vincent_Beers
You went to Korean BBQ place. It’s not a hibachi, that’s Japanese.
They didn’t cook it for you because that’s how it’s done in Korea. It’s high end dining out in Korea.
Although tipping in Korea is not done, that was the American part of it.
Here in CA there is a new law that bans these types of fees, the total price must be disclosed upfront. Restaurants are up in arms about this because, in SF especially, they had become accustomed to adding all kinds of surcharges, for labor, healthcare, you name it. They don't want to factor all that it into the menu price because they say they don't want the customer to have sticker shock when they look at the menu. Tips started out as a reward for good service rendered, it wasn't obligatory, and the tips were small. I started bartending in the late '70s and around that time it started to evolve into an obligation by the customer. Minimum wage laws were re-written to allow employers to pay tipped employees less per hour. In 1982 or 83, in the Reagan tax reforms, they started subjecting tips to federal income tax obligations (while cutting taxes on corporations and the wealthy). They also started taxing Social Security payments. That made tipping even more obligatory. It was an injustice back then to shift the tax burden away from the wealthy and more on the lowest income earners and those on a fixed income (SS) and it's still an injustice today. Let's do something about that.
I always tip the staff generously as I've worked in that industry and know what they're dealing with in terms of pay rates. What drives me insane is a local restaurant who, after that COVID lockdown, decided to stay open offering take-out only. Lockdowns are over but the restaurant never reopened the dining room, instead asking for a tip on the take-out screen used for payment. You have to OPT OUT for take-out! Who tips at a drive-thru?
Who? Fools.
My wife and I went to a pizza restaurant in CA a few weeks ago while on vacation and they had a sign hanging up saying something to the effect of "due to the rising costs blah blah blah and us wanting to pay our staff yada yada yada, all takeout orders will have a 20% fee." So basically they are enforcing a 20% tip for no service. My wife wanted to get takeout and I was like "no way. We are going to sit and be served... get refills on our drinks... and then I can choose to tip whatever I want". Then when the bill came, the tablet had "suggested" tips of 20%, 22% and 25%. Insane.
@@rhoonah5849 that's kind of how it was at the Thai place I frequented (no longer). They ask up front, on the very first payment screen (they use an Apple touch screen pos terminal). Appalling. They made me feel a little guilty initially because I inquired about tipping for no service - the look on the guy's face and demeanor immediately changed. I realized I'd never return again after that. The fact that the GA restaurant suggested tips and did the math for you is equally uncouth. The times have changed and we need to push back hard against this.
@@CyberDocUSA I just click the "no tip" option for takeout and don't bother to engage with the person at the register but yes, it is out of control.
Along time ago, the "tip" was given before the service to insure the customer would get extra special attention from the person actually doing the service.
This is called "bribe"
@@sepulkariy aye, and it was seen as dishonorable
I have tried this a few times and it always backfired.
That's called a bribe
Yes, we far prefer to keep our bribes at the end of the transaction, these days.
if im buying something, labour is a part of the cost. To add a labour fee on top of that, its like those ticket scalpers adding a paperwork fee ontop of buying the tickets from them.
1. Raise minimum wage. In Australia minimum wage is $23.23 AUD. After exchanging that for USD thats $15.14 at ~$0.65 USD per AUD which is over double what it is now $7.25
2. Remove tips as an exception for the minimum wage. Customers should not be subsidising wages.
"but a sudden jump in minimum wage will bankrupt businesses" this is why the minimum wage should be increasing with inflation, not left stagnant for 15 years. The longer you leave it low and dont increase it, the worse it will be.
Minimum (living) wage is the only way to keep society civil. Unions are pretty much the only other way to do it.
abolish minimum wage, let the market work it out
@@Gonzo_Bubb Well, you'll be working for free then. I hope those tips are good.
@@j.f.christ8421 People just won't do it, if it's not worth it.
@@Gonzo_Bubb Keep going, you've almost got it....
A lot of people, especially servers, have forgotten that TIPS stands for "TO INSURE PERSONAL SERVICE" , and they now expect it regardless of the service. I have never left a restaurant without leaving a tip, but the service determines the amount. Servers might take notice of this practice. I am only one of many who thinks this way.
I can't stand when people say that you have to leave a certain tip percentage regardless of service. That doesn't provide adequate feedback.
If I sit down, someone comes to the table, takes my order, brings me the food, offers me a variety of things from bread, dessert, drinks, etc., that person is working for a tip. Anything short of that and it is not a tipped role. someone standing at a counter taking orders is not a tipped person.
No.
The rest of the world says both of those people should be getting paid a decent wage by their employer.
No.
Right, they are trying to guilt us into giving a tip to the person behind the counter with those tip msgs that popup on the cc machines, SMH.
I think you're missing the point...or maybe I am. To me this new 4% labor fee is replacing my normal 20% tip saving me 16%. I'm okay with this...
My modo is "Cash for the Staff that way they keep all the Stash". 😊😅😅😂
So glad he addressed the pizza sticker. I was really thinking it was a PizzaGate reference.
I used to go regularly to a restaurant in London and every time I went in, I would give the host a £5 handshake. Also tipped the waitstaff very well. I am sure you would imagine I got impeccable service and would also get seated quite quickly. Loved that place and was sad to see the building it was in was torn down and replaced with some clothing store.
As someone that worked for tips during college.....the tipping system needs to go away 100% and employers should be forced to pay a living wage.
Lol, the great untold or unrealized talking point in this argument is that a great many servers ardently do not want to move away from tipping; they would make so much less money.
This is a spectrum with some people making near minimum wage, of course, but there are also many servers making really good money on tips. I guarantee you those people do NOT want to do away with tips.
That evil phrase..."living wage"...
What is a "living wage"?
$30 per hour?
$50?
Learn a skill and be good at it along with a good work ethic and the money will come......
I am tired of people thinking they can jump right into the job market at the same level as their parents and not have to start at the bottom.
I will not hire anyone who has this attitude.
@@grandinosour Whatever market will bear ?
I know a couple of servers who would leave the industry if they were paid a flat wage. They work at popular chain, they're friendly and their service is flawless. Even with splitting tips, they make a really nice living. As in pay off the new car in a year and buy a house. Circumstances differ.
The ONLY people who bitch about wait staff making less than minimum wage, is the people who aren't very good at it, or are lazy.
Been a chef a long time now(NC beach), and in the summer season (almost 7 months) our wait staff easily make over $400 in a 5 hour shift.
I subtract the labor fee from the tip.
I do the same when the state hikes minimum wage.
Subtract minimum wage 10 years ago from most recent minimum wage hike from the tip. All the way to $0 if I have to.
@@valcaron because inflation does not exist.
Pizza 🍕 places in Orlando mid 2000s early 2010s started with "delivery" fees $. Some added ohhh this isn't a tip or $ for the pizza driver! 🙄 I just order carry out. 1 smaller 🍕. Sometimes bread sticks.
@@valcaron That doesn't even make mathematical sense, let alone logical sense. Not only are waitstaff mostly not paid minimum wage, but also you're not the only table they have at a time.
@@PhysicsGamer There are states in which restaurants are legally required to pay minimum wage.
This is insane I need to open a restaurant so I can charge for having a place so they can eat like a convenience fee. say 20 bucks per order. cause why not...
Some places do charge you for eating in, because they have to go back and clean up. It's been a thing for decades. $20? You'd go under, $2? Yeah plenty of restaurants do that. Why is this insane when you already are expected to tip? Just stop tipping, this labor fee means the owner knows they have to pay their staff and not me.
i was a dishwasher at a restaurant in the early 90s. what they did was any tip up to 15% was split, anything over 15% was to the staffer themselves.
That was a solid MASH reference.
Passing all of these fees onto the customer should give each customer the right to visually inspect the kitchen areas for cleanliness. You'd be shocked...or not, to see the conditions where your high priced meals are being prepared....that you're paying ever increasing costs for.
Seriously, if I'm the waitstaff's employer, can I make hiring and firing decisions?
Then they'd just add a "kitchen inspection" fee.
You pay all the other costs for every other business you interact with but don't (and shouldn't) have this bizarre level of access. Why should this be any different? Lol
@@j.f.christ8421 or a toilet paper fee 😂
The labor fees were already in prices, because the food didnt cost that much.
Thats how they set the prices of dish, it figures in cost of food, labor, cost for rent of building, electricity.
You are flat out wrong. The labor fee's for everyone but the server are already baked into the prices. The server is paid essentially on tips alone. The federal min wage for servers is only $2.13, instead of you being put in the position of deciding if they're getting paid for their job or not, the server has guarentee'd income. You as the customer also get to ignore the entire concept of tipping. Pay and leave, no "how good of a job did they do, do they deserve 10% for being pretty bad at it, or 20% for doing great."
Yes, but rising or prices and rising inflation means that prices have to go up. Making it an additional tack on fee instead of higher list prices circumvents sales taxes (for now).
Steve's story of the waitress running after him reminded me of a story my Dad told back in the 1960's: He was with a small group for lunch, left a one dollar tip, and as they were leaving, the waiter held up the dollar bill and yelled: "Sir, I think you need this more than I do!"
Love the MASH reference. Big MASH fan here.
Mr. Lehto, the next time you put out an audio book narrated by yourself, please make sure you incorporate the word boingboing in it. Thank you for your time and understanding.
Hi Steve. I grew up in Ann Arbor and worked at Win Schulers while i was in high school . I worked in the kitchen. This was 1974-1976. Most of the wait staff were college students. Back then , they could pay for school and apartment. Most of them went to UofM.
Eat at home. It's cheaper and usually better food.
Some people never put forth the effort to learn to cook well. I'm not one of them. I often find restaurant food lacking knowing that I can do better. I'm pleased when I cant or its something new that I have never tried to prepare.
@@9999plato thank you for your response. I agree with you. But after thinking more on this subject I feel there's something more fundamental in our society. I know plenty of my own family, neighbors and friends who are good cooks and they only have a single job so there is time. I am starting to feel that it's more akin to buying junk at a store to find happiness. It's an illusion that some people are falling for. The idea that they are 'eating out' gives them a sense that they are doing good fincially. Even if they are putting it on a credit card and skipping the tip.
It's a mentally that successful people eat out all the time. Poor people eat at home. I am just glad that I am a decent enough cook that I think most restaurants food is garbage all coming from Cisco food services. It is sad to watch so many people fall deeper into debt.
I hope you have a wonderful day!
The restaurant I used to work at now adds a 'service fee'. Tipping the waitress is no longer necessary because they get paid I guess a minimum wage or higher.
Yeah that's why I'm into this. I'd rather not have to figure out how much money to donate to my server so they can eat, etc. The restaurant charging only 4.5% vs the 15% I usually tip is great news for me.
Likely just paid the absolute minimum, but the owners are getting the increased profits.
So anytime a bill says anything other than tip or gratuity, the restaurant can keep all the money. I don't dine at restaurants that have "service fees"
They always have.
Their boss only pays the reduced wage if they don't make the rest up in tips.
re: THEY ALL MAKE MIN WAGE OR MORE. Anyone that tells you otherwise is either lying, or stupid.
I remember the pizza oven case! Good to hear it ended as it should have!
But Steve, wasn't that MASH episode about them needing to replace their broken autoclave?
It was about them needing an incubator ("Give me an incubator or give me death?!") The autoclave blew up in a different episode if my memory is correct.
@@stevelehtoyou’re correct Steve. They needed the incubator to grow cultures that they had been forced to send to Tokyo. The killjoy paperwork guy says “you can’t have one”. The staff retorts with “we’re not asking for a jukebox or a pizza oven”. Killjoy replies “oh, those I can let you have. Just strikeout machine-gun, and write in pizza oven. Great episode.
This was implemented in Las Vegas well over a year ago. It is not in all restaurants but they must either place that cost on the menu or have it posted in the restaurant
Smart move by the restaurant. I don't eat out like gen-z does. I actually know how to cook my own meals. Saves tons of money.
There was a restaurant I went to maybe two months ago. They have something called a "back of house" fee. No signs about this in the restaurant. No mention of it on the menu. How did I find out about it? When I got the bill.
Yeah I would walk around recording no signs then tell them to make the meal free or I would sue them for fraud and never go back
That's when you refuse to pay and walk out.
Two things make me angry about the whole tipping culture. 1. Restaurants not paying their employees enough - some areas do not even pay minimum wage. 2. This new "Labor Fee." My responsibility as the customer is to pay for the food I order and leave a reasonable tip for good service. It is NOT my responsibility to pay the wages of the servers. That is the responsibility of the owner of the restaurant. A four percent labor fee plus a 20 percent tip adds 24 percent to the bill. There comes a point where the customers just can't afford to eat out anymore.
That "labour fee" is not going the staff.
As a customer of any business, you are 100% paying the wages of the business' employees; it's just built into the cost of the good or service. So this argument is pretty dumb.
There's an argument against this extra fee, but yours isn't it
"Restaurants not paying their employees enough - some areas do not even pay minimum wage
This isn't true ANYWHERE in the US. You fell for the lie the greedy servers tell you; It's not the truth.
The TRUTH is NO ONE is working for less than minimum wage (at least not legally), as a server.
Their boss can get away with paying them less than min wage ONLY if the tips they make bring their hourly rate up to or above the min wage, but if not then they DO have to cover the difference.
Example: If you get LITERALLY NO TIPS the entire pay period: Your boss is paying min wage.
Example 2: If you work 10 hours (simplicity) and get enough tips to bring you above min wage for that period then your boss only has to pay 2-3/h.
They lie so you feel bad and tip them more. Many servers would actually make less if tipping was removed because of how prevalent this LIE is.
Sit down, and shut up kid.
@@watcherofwatchers Yes, my money for the food pays the wages and all the other expenses. My point is that many owners won't pay minimum wage and are using tipping and labor fees to cover this shortage, thereby taking this expense out of the restaurant's budget.
If you can’t afford it now, just wait and see how much it will cost if the server is getting an hourly wage instead
I worked in multiple restaurants in my younger years and the worst one was when they had us working other people's tables, but we did not get a share of the tips. I worked for almost an hour helping others with their tables and no one was sat at my tables, so I was essentially free labor. I told them I was going to walk out if they didn't seat anyone at my tables. I was not there very long after that as I refuse to work for free.
There was never a great restaurant I worked at that I would recommend anyone work at. This is motivation to learn skill and do something better.
I will walk out of a restaurant that has a mandatory tip policy. Two stories. When i was in High School there was a Mexican Restaurant called Casa Lupita. We went on a field trip and decided to eat lunch there. When we got our bills 15% had been added, probably because we were kids. My friend and I looked at the waitress and thanked her for the discount. When she looked puzzled we said we normally tip 20% when we come here. The other was the Rainforest Cafe just outside the Wild Kingdom in Orlando. IT said groups of 6 or more would be charged 15%. I would have walked out but everybody else wanted to stay. We had a horrible waiter, my mother sent her meal back three times and overall it was a lousy experience. I excused myself and went and found the manager. I told him take off the tip orI would dispute the charge for the whole meal. Tips are EARNED not deserved.
Problem is the law allows certain employees, who need significantly more then "minimum' wage to be paid even less and then leave the remain portions of their wage up to the customers. This needs to end. Fist eliminate 'tipped wage' and second restore minimum wage to actually be a minimum wage as intended. There is no way you case support a family of four on just one full time job at the current 'minimum' wage even though that was the purpose of creating a legal minimum wage.
Employers are required to make up the difference in wage if the tipped worker doesn't make enough tips. Raising the federal minimum wage is the only necessary move (well, aside from fixing rent issues and other things that would ultimately kill the smaller businesses with a minimum wage increase but leave the huge franchises intact).
@@MadocComadrin In theory yes, in practice NO WAY.
Employers will just find excuses to eliminate any employee they have to make up the difference in. So employees either have to lie about making enough tips when they don't, or they wind up jobless. Spend over 25 years in the restaurants and worked damn near every job in the business, from busboy to Restaurant General Manager. I've worked both major, well known national chains, to mom and pop franchises of lesser chains and even a single owner truck stop. Doesn't matter that much, either you claim enough make min whether you do or not or it's evidence you're not doing a good enough job and bye bye.
The reduced wage for tipped employees needs to go.
@@kaseyboles30 Why wouldn't those people still be fired for poor service anyway? I imagine they'd actually be fired sooner because now they're costing the employer more every paycheck consistently as opposed to the times the employer had to make up the difference.
Moreover, every person I've known who's worked a tipped job or gig has said they actually would prefer to be tipped because they make more than they would have with a wage significantly above minimum.
Ultimately, I don't think small restaurants and the like would actually survive both eliminating tipping and raising minimum wage significantly simultaneously (or even just the latter in some circumstances). Those changes disproportionately favor wealthy franchises or restaurateurs. In the very least, it would be bad empirical practice to change both things at once. Raise minimum wage first (since that affects more people than just tipped workers), then look at tipping when that stabilizes.
@@MadocComadrin That's just it, those folk are fired for poor service if they don't claim to make enough, poor service to their bosses bottom line. It doesn't matter how good they are as I've seen the best servers in a restaurant get stiffed because the cooks were food burning slow pokes and the management assholes who made things worse, not making tips. Servers get tipped based on the WHOLE experience of the customer AND the culture and beliefs of the customer. Things completely out of their control.
Back when min wage really was restaurants and others businesses made good money and paid their employees enough to live on. So eliminating the tipped wage cheat will only put badly managed restaurants out of business. These are the same ones that cut other corners and are oft on the edge of failing their next health inspection and charging employees for company uniforms at a huge markup and the like.