Many people ignore an important aspect of the Pennsylvania Dutch, that the majority of all Pennsylvania Dutch were indeed not Amish, but Fancy Dutch. We Fancy Dutch were a very rich, business-minded community; Anglo-Americans assimilated us only very recently in our history.
My mom remembers her Grandma and Great Aunts getting together and speaking PA Dutch with each other. My mom's generation didn't learn PA Dutch because by then some of the family wasn't Amish anymore. My grandfather knew some words. I love your Amish videos. Helps me stay in touch with my Amish roots.
I grew up learning that we were Dutch. A 6 year old has no idea what that means except the Dutch Boy Paint Company. Growing old er my Uncle John informed me that our ancestral family was Swiss-Amish. It wasn’t until I was in my 40’s that I started doing serious research into my families history . Yes we were Swiss and arrived here in 1727 from Bern as farmers. Since that time my research has taken me way into the bowels of history. I have traced the family back to 1410 in Switzerland and Southern Bavaria.
Hi Erik. Excellent video. My Grandmother was second Generation Swiss German who was born in Baltimore Maryland. She grew up speaking Swiss German and English. My grand father was of English and Scottish decent. He was a large Tomato farmer on the Eastern shore of Maryland in Cambridge. I have fond memories of visiting them. My dad was from South Carolina so i grew up with a Southern father and a mom from the Eastern shore. It was a very interesting upbringing. Keep up the Great work!!!
I speak other languages. Thus, this interests me greatly. When I visited Lancaster County with my cousin Egon (RIP) who was fluent in proper German, they did not understand him at all when he spoke to them in German. He understood them better. Thanks for posting. Always a pleasure!
Thanks Tom! I think certain of those from the Palatinate region in Germany have the best chance of being understood by Amish. I have heard some Amish say that with people from that region they can communicate well enough as in the larger communities they sometimes get visitors from those areas
On my mother's side, ancestry goes all the way back to 1490. Wurttenburg Germany. Ancestors moved to Pennsylvania and they were Pennsylvania Dutch. Last names were Heim, Winter. Schaffer. A couple of Ancestors were dunkards they were called. A church sect meaning baptism. A couple of my great aunts were Mennonites.
Great information, I had no idea that Dutch meant German and I had no idea that there were Swiss Amish at all, how interesting to learn that the two speak different forms of their language. I'd love to learn more about the Swiss Amish, are their other big differences culturally beside the language they speak. Thanks for adding to my love of history and different cultures, I soak this stuff up. Have a great day Erik.
For a lot of times the Dutchmen were considered just another variation of Germans, like Bavarians, Franconians, Prussians, etc. and yes it's fairly recent that Dutch refers only to the "Germans" of the Low Countries instead of to all of them.
Read accounts of some of the Civil War battles (Battle of Gettysburg is one) that had some units made up largely of soldiers from the German states in Europe, and you will see at that time that contemporary native English speakers routinely referred to those soldiers of German origin as "Dutch."
Hi Erik, I follow a couple on fb that were raised Amish. He grew up in Montana and she grew up in Michigan and is of swiss heritage. I'm glad you touched on that at the end of the video. Thanks again for more interesting info!!
I grew up in the fifties hearing my grandparents speak Pennsylvania Dutch, my grandfather also taught it at night school in the community college. We always knew when they argued because they switched to all PA Dutch😊
As an Australian your videos are very interesting. I've only ever seen the Amish in US comedies where they are mocked and made fun of. Sounds like they are nice simple people with a different way of life to most in the 21st century
Happy to hear that yes they are made punchlines sometimes but also can be portrayed more positively. I recently saw a clip of a film in which the Amish character turned out to be much more knowledgeable (street-smart) that the English character assumed (the joke turned out to be on him). It was a comedy
Your videos are so fascinating! Thank you always for presenting them. I had a couple questions only if you ever had a few free moments, no worries if you can’t respond. What happens when a young couple are infertile? Do they usually adopt ? Also is it a rule to wear straight pins in their dresses?. I would think that would hurt getting pricked often. Can they use safety pins or buttons? How do they get to pick what colors to make their dresses?
No worries Susan I will take a crack at the first one - so Amish do adopt, there is even a video on the channel here on that - it can be from within the Amish community (in cases of tragedies for instance where children are orphaned), or, non-Amish American children or even from abroad.
We have Swiss Amish here in MO. Some of them stopped by our house for a garage sale, and my mom-in-law started speaking PA Dutch to them. They didn't understand what she was saying.
You're correct when you say the PA Dutch is a language from southwest Germany. My ancestors came from this region, the Palatinate. When I visit this area in Germany, I'm told they understand our PA Dutch, that it is a regional dialect spoken there. As for being German vs Dutch, Germany didn't become unified or exist as a nation until 1871. Before this, everyone in this part of Europe who spoke our language was considered Dutch.
My mother, on occasion, would speak some kind of German. I know she had a 'ggGrandma Dusenbury' in her maternal heritage. Their name was originally Doesburg and was changed to Dusenbury when they immigrated to America. I traced some of them to Harlem, NY and others ended up in Canada.
I think this is completely wrong. I was told that the language spoken not just among Amish, but also by Old Mennonites and even Lutherans in the rural areas of southern Ontario was German from middle Germany (it is not really that Southern as you implied). It is the dialect of the Rhineland and the Pfalz combined - the regions of the lands along the Rhine. No one referred to it as Dutch until the end of the First World War. Here in Canada and I think in the USA too, there was a very anti-German atmosphere, especially around 1916-1918. German was actually outlawed from the public sphere here in Canada. I think that Canada is the only country that went that far. German schools were banned even if the communities had built the schools (a bit like taking the house from the owner of the house), German printing presses were confiscated and handed over to English newspaper companies (this was the beginning of the Kitchener Record), German books were burned or buried and the language really went underground (no pun intended). The only place where it continued to be used was in churches and only in a few such as the Old Mennonite and Amish ones. Then people started to give the impression that they were Dutch and not German as it was more acceptable. Schneider's meat company started to display the Dutch girl on their packaging. He had not been Dutch, but a German Lutheran who got kicked out of St. Peter's Lutheran church in Kitchener (formerly the town had been called Berlin, but a rigged vote had changed it to Kitchener) for having a mistress and insisting that he could still go to Holy Communion. In those days pastors still had guts to tell off a wealthy man like him. Sadly, instead of repenting and going back to his wife, he invited another church group to come to town and he built a church for them - Swedenborgians. There had been no Swedenborgians in old Berlin, Ontario, so it was basically a beautiful marble temple for Schneider, his mistress and a few lackies. We could call this period the Hollandization of Germanic Canada. Suddenly 66% of all Germans were somehow turned into Dutch. At that time there were very few people of true Dutch origin in Canada, so that was not the case. This is when people started to say that they or their parents spoke "Dutch" even though it was not. Possibly your professor will disagree, but that is what my relatives who lived through it all told me and I am sticking with it just as I am sticking with the old version of the Lord's Prayer...Vater Unser, der Du bist im Himmel and not Unser Vater im Himmel or some such nonsense. Stephan in Kanada
@@andrewgeissinger5242 Yes, probably some ignorant people used the term, but that does not prove anything. The US surveys from the 19th century uses the term German for Germans. What more do you do you want? Ignorance only vouches for ignorance.
I am always amused when people who haven't really studied the issue, and don't live here start to tell us we are wrong. Where I grew up, there were almost no "English". I had PA Dutch relatives wherever I went. Yet there were English who would come to Kutztown University (then Kutztown College) and tell me how I was misprounouncing the little village in which I grew up. Dear Stephan, open your mind to the possibility that a Canadian might not know more about our heritage than you do.
A lot of relatives on my mom's side are Pennsylvania Dutch. Many of her ancestors were German. Her great grandma's last name was Euler (may be off on the spelling) & barely spoke a few words of English (mostly bad words she picked up from locals at the time 😂).
The Swiss Amish speak TWO different dialects: one is a variety of Bernese German from Switzerland spoken in the settlement in Adams County and daughter settlements, the other one is a Low Alemannic Alsatian dialect spoken in Allen County and daughter settlements. The Alsatian dialect of Allen County is somehow closer to the Bernese German than Pennsylvania German because both are Alemannic dialects but they are quite different! There is a study of Chad Thompson about the Allen County dialect which describes in detail what is said above., called "The Languages of the Amish of Allen County, Indiana: Multilingualism and Convergence". I wrote all that in the Wikipedia article about the Amish hoping that it will find a wider audience but in spite of that there are still many people who are quite familiar with the Amish who ignore this fact. Sure, there are reasons to call both groups "Swiss Amish" but concerning language they speak to quite different dialects. The Old Order Amish now speak four different dialects: Pennsylvania Dutch (the vast majority), Bernese German (about 2/3 of the Swiss Amish which are about 8 percent of all Amish), Low Alemannic Alsatian (about 1/3 of the Swiss Amish), Plautdietsch, (about 225 people in Argentina and Bolivia who are affiliated with the New Order Amish ).
Great comment. Yes that is on me, I am aware of that study though I have not read it, but I will note this in a more detailed future vid on the Swiss Amish. One question that maybe you can shed light on given your familiarity with this. Louden in a footnote states that "Thompson 1994 demonstrates that the German spoken by some Amish in Allen County, IN is descended from Alsatian German rather than Bernese varieties." So as noted that study is from 1994. What also caught my attention is the "some Amish". I'm left wondering a) how many is "some Amish" (a minority or majority, or more or less even), and what is the alternative variety of German spoken by the "other Amish" that by implication do not speak the Alsatian variety in Allen County (is it the Bernese variant of Adams County?), and b) this is coming up on 30 years since that study was done, are you aware of any further blending or adoption of whatever the alternative form of German is in Allen County by the "some Amish" who speak the Alsatian variant? What came to mind is the example of Daviess County moving to PA Dutch over time. I realize there may be no fresh research on this but perhaps you know something anecdotally. Thank you!
And the Plattdeutsch still spoken in Germany can be understood by a non Amish Pennsylvanian PA Dutch speaker. Even amongst those of us in the original PA Dutch area of Berks, Lehigh, Lancaster, York being the center and radiating out, hear differences between the areas in terms of pronunciation and word choice. A tutt in Berks is a dutt in Lancaster, or a paper bag in English.
My husband worked construction with some Swiss Amish in the South Whitley IN area and they taught him a bunch of phrases in "Swiss Dutch." Then he'd come home and teach the kids😊
I am dutch. I speak also german. This is more german language the amish speak, but also with a twist. German language in Holland is referred to as "duits". When I grew up it confused me why dutch people are called "dutch", because I thought it ment german.
I too was born in Pennsylvania and my Dad always said we were Pennsylvania Dutch. We do not have any close German relatives however my last name was Fetterman which is an Americanization of the German name Vetterman. So Fetterman is shortened from Fettermann..from Vettermann. Thanks for this informative video.
I thought I knew the answer to this(the Deitsch-Dutch translation) but I learned something new. Also I didn't know there were other German dialects among the Amish. It's also interesting that most speakers of Pennsylvania Dutch were non-Amish historically, but now the Amish are virtually the only people who speak it, similar to Yiddish among Jews, which is now almost exclusively spoken by Hasidim and not by ""mainstream" Jews, even though Hasidim were a small minority of Yiddish speakers in pre-war Europe.
My parent's are both born and raised in Switzerland. They learned high German in school but spoke Swiss-German at home. My parents are from different cantons and speak a different dialect but understand each other. I am first generation Canadian, I took German in school. I had a hard time between German and Swiss-german which is a softer dialect.
My Grandmother told me we had Dutch, Pennsylvanian Dutch and Quaker Dutch in us from so very long ago who lived in Pennsylvania. Does that make some of my ancestor Amish? We are Catholic from LONG ago...
No. Pennsylvania Dutch refers to the German speaking immigrants who came to Pennsylvania during the colonial period until the early 19th century and their descendants. The vast majority of those people were either Lutheran or German Reformed. Only a tiny fraction of them were Amish. To know if any of yours were Amish you would have do genealogical research to see who your specific ancestors were and what their backgrounds were.
No, the quaker are a religious christian group from the UK. The amish origin from the mennonitesw who mostly were of german origin. The mennonites emerged during the reformation phase of the christian church and are evangelical. There are different evangelical alignments, who call themselves different.
Interesting that they come from the Palatinate; that is also where the Ashkenazi Jewish culture comes from, during the Holy Roman Empire the Bishop of the area granted religious freedom to the Jews living there (back when in most places you needed to be Catholic, or you had to leave.) Ashkenazi means German in Hebrew, and even as many Jews went eastward into the Slavic countries Yiddish was the main spoken language.
Something I heard many years ago was Pennsylvania "Dutch" was actually a mispronunciation of Pennsylvania Deutsche with Deutsche being the German word for German.
Everyone has heard that, but scholars who have studied the issue tell us that the English word "Dutch" used to mean "German". The narrator explains it correctly in this video. Of course, both words still have a common origin in some common older form of German.
"Dutch" is pretty widespread slang for German-Americans. (In the movie RIDE WITH THE DEVIL, the Tobey Maguire character gets nicknamed "Dutchie" because of his German roots.)
I have lived in Switzerland and Germany and it’s the same thing: It’s way easier for the Swiss to understand the dialects spoken in Germany than vice versa
So as a Canadian-French speaker, I’m curious to know the intelligibility relationship between Pennsylvania Dutch and German as it is spoken in Berlin? What percentage of the language overall is the same?
Not a lot. we PA Dutch came to the Americas in the late 1600s, early 1700s. So that is almost 300 years of change from the palatinate German dialect they came here with. Our language is a lot softer than Berlin German. Plus it has all sorts of English added that has been "Dutchified".
I've wondered why most Amish I know read a bible written in what's called high German. Do you think this is because the bible had never been rewritten like our bible is in english. Just curious.
I just watched a video called "Can German & Dutch Speakers Understand Mennonites". In their discussion of the dialect (Plautdietsch) of one of the guests said that it was mostly an oral language, and that in her church, the Bible and the hymn books were in High German.
I still have two family Bibles that are in high German. (Not Amish or Mennonite but rather what used to be called "Gay Dutch". Family spoke Dutch, friends spoke Dutch, other farmers in the area spoke Dutch. Have never seen any Bibles in PA Dutch. I think you are correct.
Many people ignore an important aspect of the Pennsylvania Dutch, that the majority of all Pennsylvania Dutch were indeed not Amish, but Fancy Dutch. We Fancy Dutch were a very rich, business-minded community; Anglo-Americans assimilated us only very recently in our history.
I had a slide on Fancy Dutch but edited it out for brevity. Will be worth covering in a future vid
My mom remembers her Grandma and Great Aunts getting together and speaking PA Dutch with each other. My mom's generation didn't learn PA Dutch because by then some of the family wasn't Amish anymore. My grandfather knew some words. I love your Amish videos. Helps me stay in touch with my Amish roots.
I grew up learning that we were Dutch. A 6 year old has no idea what that means except the Dutch Boy Paint Company. Growing old er my Uncle John informed me that our ancestral family was Swiss-Amish. It wasn’t until I was in my 40’s that I started doing serious research into my families history . Yes we were Swiss and arrived here in 1727 from Bern as farmers. Since that time my research has taken me way into the bowels of history. I have traced the family back to 1410 in Switzerland and Southern Bavaria.
Hi Erik. Excellent video. My Grandmother was second Generation Swiss German who was born in Baltimore Maryland. She grew up speaking Swiss German and English. My grand father was of English and Scottish decent. He was a large Tomato farmer on the Eastern shore of Maryland in Cambridge. I have fond memories of visiting them. My dad was from South Carolina so i grew up with a Southern father and a mom from the Eastern shore. It was a very interesting upbringing. Keep up the Great work!!!
In Britain the same switch was made, naming the people in NL, Dutch. So as a Netherlander🇳🇱, I empathize with the people who speak PA-Deutsch. 😊
I speak other languages. Thus, this interests me greatly. When I visited Lancaster County with my cousin Egon (RIP) who was fluent in proper German, they did not understand him at all when he spoke to them in German. He understood them better. Thanks for posting. Always a pleasure!
Thanks Tom! I think certain of those from the Palatinate region in Germany have the best chance of being understood by Amish. I have heard some Amish say that with people from that region they can communicate well enough as in the larger communities they sometimes get visitors from those areas
On my mother's side, ancestry goes all the way back to 1490. Wurttenburg Germany. Ancestors moved to Pennsylvania and they were Pennsylvania Dutch. Last names were Heim, Winter. Schaffer. A couple of Ancestors were dunkards they were called. A church sect meaning baptism. A couple of my great aunts were Mennonites.
Great information, I had no idea that Dutch meant German and I had no idea that there were Swiss Amish at all, how interesting to learn that the two speak different forms of their language. I'd love to learn more about the Swiss Amish, are their other big differences culturally beside the language they speak. Thanks for adding to my love of history and different cultures, I soak this stuff up. Have a great day Erik.
Gladly, I will do a video on Swiss Amish at some point! have a great day too
For a lot of times the Dutchmen were considered just another variation of Germans, like Bavarians, Franconians, Prussians, etc. and yes it's fairly recent that Dutch refers only to the "Germans" of the Low Countries instead of to all of them.
Read accounts of some of the Civil War battles (Battle of Gettysburg is one) that had some units made up largely of soldiers from the German states in Europe, and you will see at that time that contemporary native English speakers routinely referred to those soldiers of German origin as "Dutch."
@@AmishAmerica which parts of Indiana speak Swiss Dutch? And, are they the new or old order?
You truly have one of the best channels on UA-cam. Always informative, respectful and enjoyable! ❤️👍🏻
Another great video. You should Perdue doing more vocal work like books on tape/cds. You have such a pleasing voice maybe more than you know.
Thanks very kind of you!
Hi Erik, I follow a couple on fb that were raised Amish. He grew up in Montana and she grew up in Michigan and is of swiss heritage. I'm glad you touched on that at the end of the video. Thanks again for more interesting info!!
I grew up in the fifties hearing my grandparents speak Pennsylvania Dutch, my grandfather also taught it at night school in the community college. We always knew when they argued because they switched to all PA Dutch😊
My family is Pennsylvania Dutch. They came here in 1702 to PA.
I really enjoy all your videos, very informative. TFS 👍
Very interesting and informative as usual thank you Erik
Dr. Mark Louden is a great guy!
This was much more interesting than it sounded in the title. Thank you.
As an Australian your videos are very interesting. I've only ever seen the Amish in US comedies where they are mocked and made fun of. Sounds like they are nice simple people with a different way of life to most in the 21st century
Happy to hear that yes they are made punchlines sometimes but also can be portrayed more positively. I recently saw a clip of a film in which the Amish character turned out to be much more knowledgeable (street-smart) that the English character assumed (the joke turned out to be on him). It was a comedy
Thanks!
My Great Grandparents and my Grandmother could speak Pa Dutch. I wish I could have learned it.
Your videos are so fascinating! Thank you always for presenting them. I had a couple questions only if you ever had a few free moments, no worries if you can’t respond. What happens when a young couple are infertile? Do they usually adopt ? Also is it a rule to wear straight pins in their dresses?. I would think that would hurt getting pricked often. Can they use safety pins or buttons? How do they get to pick what colors to make their dresses?
No worries Susan I will take a crack at the first one - so Amish do adopt, there is even a video on the channel here on that - it can be from within the Amish community (in cases of tragedies for instance where children are orphaned), or, non-Amish American children or even from abroad.
Awesome video great information
We have Swiss Amish here in MO. Some of them stopped by our house for a garage sale, and my mom-in-law started speaking PA Dutch to them. They didn't understand what she was saying.
Good discussion.
I had a friend who was a Mennonite. She told me they called themselves/language Deetch.
You're correct when you say the PA Dutch is a language from southwest Germany. My ancestors came from this region, the Palatinate. When I visit this area in Germany, I'm told they understand our PA Dutch, that it is a regional dialect spoken there.
As for being German vs Dutch, Germany didn't become unified or exist as a nation until 1871. Before this, everyone in this part of Europe who spoke our language was considered Dutch.
My mother, on occasion, would speak some kind of German. I know she had a 'ggGrandma Dusenbury' in her maternal heritage. Their name was originally Doesburg and was changed to Dusenbury when they immigrated to America. I traced some of them to Harlem, NY and others ended up in Canada.
Interesting….I was told my grandmother was Pennsylvania Dutch. I need to dig deeper!
I think this is completely wrong. I was told that the language spoken not just among Amish, but also by Old Mennonites and even Lutherans in the rural areas of southern Ontario was German from middle Germany (it is not really that Southern as you implied). It is the dialect of the Rhineland and the Pfalz combined - the regions of the lands along the Rhine. No one referred to it as Dutch until the end of the First World War. Here in Canada and I think in the USA too, there was a very anti-German atmosphere, especially around 1916-1918. German was actually outlawed from the public sphere here in Canada. I think that Canada is the only country that went that far. German schools were banned even if the communities had built the schools (a bit like taking the house from the owner of the house), German printing presses were confiscated and handed over to English newspaper companies (this was the beginning of the Kitchener Record), German books were burned or buried and the language really went underground (no pun intended). The only place where it continued to be used was in churches and only in a few such as the Old Mennonite and Amish ones. Then people started to give the impression that they were Dutch and not German as it was more acceptable. Schneider's meat company started to display the Dutch girl on their packaging. He had not been Dutch, but a German Lutheran who got kicked out of St. Peter's Lutheran church in Kitchener (formerly the town had been called Berlin, but a rigged vote had changed it to Kitchener) for having a mistress and insisting that he could still go to Holy Communion. In those days pastors still had guts to tell off a wealthy man like him. Sadly, instead of repenting and going back to his wife, he invited another church group to come to town and he built a church for them - Swedenborgians. There had been no Swedenborgians in old Berlin, Ontario, so it was basically a beautiful marble temple for Schneider, his mistress and a few lackies. We could call this period the Hollandization of Germanic Canada. Suddenly 66% of all Germans were somehow turned into Dutch. At that time there were very few people of true Dutch origin in Canada, so that was not the case. This is when people started to say that they or their parents spoke "Dutch" even though it was not. Possibly your professor will disagree, but that is what my relatives who lived through it all told me and I am sticking with it just as I am sticking with the old version of the Lord's Prayer...Vater Unser, der Du bist im Himmel and not Unser Vater im Himmel or some such nonsense. Stephan in Kanada
In the US people of German language background whether Pennsylvania German or otherwise were referred to as "Dutch" long before World War I.
@@andrewgeissinger5242 Yes, probably some ignorant people used the term, but that does not prove anything. The US surveys from the 19th century uses the term German for Germans. What more do you do you want? Ignorance only vouches for ignorance.
I am always amused when people who haven't really studied the issue, and don't live here start to tell us we are wrong. Where I grew up, there were almost no "English". I had PA Dutch relatives wherever I went. Yet there were English who would come to Kutztown University (then Kutztown College) and tell me how I was misprounouncing the little village in which I grew up. Dear Stephan, open your mind to the possibility that a Canadian might not know more about our heritage than you do.
A lot of relatives on my mom's side are Pennsylvania Dutch. Many of her ancestors were German. Her great grandma's last name was Euler (may be off on the spelling) & barely spoke a few words of English (mostly bad words she picked up from locals at the time 😂).
Pennsylvania Dutch is from "Deutsche", the German word for German
The Swiss Amish speak TWO different dialects: one is a variety of Bernese German from Switzerland spoken in the settlement in Adams County and daughter settlements, the other one is a Low Alemannic Alsatian dialect spoken in Allen County and daughter settlements. The Alsatian dialect of Allen County is somehow closer to the Bernese German than Pennsylvania German because both are Alemannic dialects but they are quite different! There is a study of Chad Thompson about the Allen County dialect which describes in detail what is said above., called "The Languages of the Amish of Allen County, Indiana: Multilingualism and Convergence".
I wrote all that in the Wikipedia article about the Amish hoping that it will find a wider audience but in spite of that there are still many people who are quite familiar with the Amish who ignore this fact. Sure, there are reasons to call both groups "Swiss Amish" but concerning language they speak to quite different dialects.
The Old Order Amish now speak four different dialects: Pennsylvania Dutch (the vast majority), Bernese German (about 2/3 of the Swiss Amish which are about 8 percent of all Amish), Low Alemannic Alsatian (about 1/3 of the Swiss Amish), Plautdietsch, (about 225 people in Argentina and Bolivia who are affiliated with the New Order Amish ).
Great comment. Yes that is on me, I am aware of that study though I have not read it, but I will note this in a more detailed future vid on the Swiss Amish.
One question that maybe you can shed light on given your familiarity with this. Louden in a footnote states that "Thompson 1994 demonstrates that the German spoken by some Amish in Allen County, IN is descended from Alsatian German rather than Bernese varieties."
So as noted that study is from 1994. What also caught my attention is the "some Amish". I'm left wondering a) how many is "some Amish" (a minority or majority, or more or less even), and what is the alternative variety of German spoken by the "other Amish" that by implication do not speak the Alsatian variety in Allen County (is it the Bernese variant of Adams County?), and b) this is coming up on 30 years since that study was done, are you aware of any further blending or adoption of whatever the alternative form of German is in Allen County by the "some Amish" who speak the Alsatian variant? What came to mind is the example of Daviess County moving to PA Dutch over time.
I realize there may be no fresh research on this but perhaps you know something anecdotally. Thank you!
And the Plattdeutsch still spoken in Germany can be understood by a non Amish Pennsylvanian PA Dutch speaker. Even amongst those of us in the original PA Dutch area of Berks, Lehigh, Lancaster, York being the center and radiating out, hear differences between the areas in terms of pronunciation and word choice. A tutt in Berks is a dutt in Lancaster, or a paper bag in English.
My husband worked construction with some Swiss Amish in the South Whitley IN area and they taught him a bunch of phrases in "Swiss Dutch." Then he'd come home and teach the kids😊
I am dutch. I speak also german. This is more german language the amish speak, but also with a twist. German language in Holland is referred to as "duits". When I grew up it confused me why dutch people are called "dutch", because I thought it ment german.
I too was born in Pennsylvania and my Dad always said we were Pennsylvania Dutch. We do not have any close German relatives however my last name was Fetterman which is an Americanization of the German name Vetterman. So Fetterman is shortened from Fettermann..from Vettermann. Thanks for this informative video.
I thought I knew the answer to this(the Deitsch-Dutch translation) but I learned something new. Also I didn't know there were other German dialects among the Amish. It's also interesting that most speakers of Pennsylvania Dutch were non-Amish historically, but now the Amish are virtually the only people who speak it, similar to Yiddish among Jews, which is now almost exclusively spoken by Hasidim and not by ""mainstream" Jews, even though Hasidim were a small minority of Yiddish speakers in pre-war Europe.
My grandfather was from the Pennsylvania dutch (Fenstermaker) he wasn't Amish
not all PA Dutch people are Amish
Yeah, the Amish is only one community of the PA Dutch. Eisenhower was also of PA Dutch lineage. But he wasn't Amish.
My parent's are both born and raised in Switzerland. They learned high German in school but spoke Swiss-German at home. My parents are from different cantons and speak a different dialect but understand each other. I am first generation Canadian, I took German in school. I had a hard time between German and Swiss-german which is a softer dialect.
Living and working in Holmes county Ohio, I know some words, but all the curse words 😂
👍
My Grandmother told me we had Dutch, Pennsylvanian Dutch and Quaker Dutch in us from so very long ago who lived in Pennsylvania. Does that make some of my ancestor Amish? We are Catholic from LONG ago...
No. Pennsylvania Dutch refers to the German speaking immigrants who came to Pennsylvania during the colonial period until the early 19th century and their descendants. The vast majority of those people were either Lutheran or German Reformed. Only a tiny fraction of them were Amish. To know if any of yours were Amish you would have do genealogical research to see who your specific ancestors were and what their backgrounds were.
No, the quaker are a religious christian group from the UK. The amish origin from the mennonitesw who mostly were of german origin. The mennonites emerged during the reformation phase of the christian church and are evangelical. There are different evangelical alignments, who call themselves different.
Of course the term "dutch" originally came from the word "deutsch" which is German for the word "german".
The video addresses this subject.
Interesting that they come from the Palatinate; that is also where the Ashkenazi Jewish culture comes from, during the Holy Roman Empire the Bishop of the area granted religious freedom to the Jews living there (back when in most places you needed to be Catholic, or you had to leave.) Ashkenazi means German in Hebrew, and even as many Jews went eastward into the Slavic countries Yiddish was the main spoken language.
Interesting!
Something I heard many years ago was Pennsylvania "Dutch" was actually a mispronunciation of Pennsylvania Deutsche with Deutsche being the German word for German.
Yeah, people keep saying that all over the place, and it's false.
Everyone has heard that, but scholars who have studied the issue tell us that the English word "Dutch" used to mean "German". The narrator explains it correctly in this video. Of course, both words still have a common origin in some common older form of German.
"Dutch" is pretty widespread slang for German-Americans. (In the movie RIDE WITH THE DEVIL, the Tobey Maguire character gets nicknamed "Dutchie" because of his German roots.)
I have lived in Switzerland and Germany and it’s the same thing: It’s way easier for the Swiss to understand the dialects spoken in Germany than vice versa
Interesting, any ideas why that might be?
So as a Canadian-French speaker, I’m curious to know the intelligibility relationship between Pennsylvania Dutch and German as it is spoken in Berlin? What percentage of the language overall is the same?
Not a lot.
we PA Dutch came to the Americas in the late 1600s, early 1700s. So that is almost 300 years of change from the palatinate German dialect they came here with. Our language is a lot softer than Berlin German. Plus it has all sorts of English added that has been "Dutchified".
Peter, Peter, pumpkin eater. Had a wife and couldn't keep her. Put her in a pumpkin shell and there he kept her very well. (Nursery rhyme)
Pälzer Dütsch is the origin I guess.
I've wondered why most Amish I know read a bible written in what's called high German. Do you think this is because the bible had never been rewritten like our bible is in english. Just curious.
I just watched a video called "Can German & Dutch Speakers Understand Mennonites". In their discussion of the dialect (Plautdietsch) of one of the guests said that it was mostly an oral language, and that in her church, the Bible and the hymn books were in High German.
I still have two family Bibles that are in high German. (Not Amish or Mennonite but rather what used to be called "Gay Dutch". Family spoke Dutch, friends spoke Dutch, other farmers in the area spoke Dutch. Have never seen any Bibles in PA Dutch. I think you are correct.
Deutsch is German in German.
Maybe watch the video where it addresses that?
one word Diets say it as Deets that's how people of the netherlands will call old low german
So that has nothing to do with the immigrants from the Palatinate in what is now Germany. We have nothing to do with the Netherlanders.
@@baseidel yes obviously
Because the English misidentified them as Dutch when they are Deutsch.
It's Doitch not Dutch.
Interesting...Who'da thunk?
Wie geits?
Ich bin gut. Wie bischt?
@@pyewacket60 güt, danke
Was ist los?
Ich bin aa gut.
Gut, Danke, und Ihnen?