Hey folks! Below is the complete list of changes made to the deck for you convenience & be sure to let me know in the comments if you agree/disagree with my upgrade suggestions or if there are any cards you think I missed / would also be good includes for this deck. Feedback is always appreciated! ------------------------ Group Hug ------------------------- Thriving Grove >>> Kami of the Crescent Moon Jolly Gerbils >>> Howling Mine Riot Control >>> Dictate of Kruphix Fisher's Talent >>> Struggle for Project Purity Broken Wings >>> Oblation Promise of Loyalty >>> Fall of the First Civilization Tempt with Bunnies >>> Gluntch, the Bestower ------------------------ Opponent Value ------------------------ Thriving Heath >>> Faerie Mastermind Octomancer >>> The Council of Four Coiling Oracle >>> Smuggler's Share Illusionist's Gambit >>> Wedding Ring ------------------------ Draw Matters ------------------------ Spore Frog >>> Proft's Eidetic Memory ------------------------ No Hand Size ------------------------ Martial Impetus >>> Decanter of Endless Water ------------------------ Alternate Wincons ------------------------ Realm-Cloaked Giant >>> Approach of the Second Sun ------------------------ Flash Speed Casting ------------------------ Perplexing Test >>> Heliod, the Radiant Dawn Temple of Enlightenment >>> Alchemist's Refuge ------------------------ +1/+1 Counters ------------------------ Sphinx of Enlightenment >>> Evolution Witness ------------------------ Core ----------------------- Baird, Steward of Argive >>> Nadu, Winged Wisdom Hoofprints of the Stag >>> Arcane Denial Coveted Jewel >>> Counterspell Secret Rendezvous >>> Negate Thriving Isle >>> Krosan Verge ----------------------- Additional Upgrades ----------------------- Peerless Recycling >>> Smothering Tithe Tamiyo, Field Researcher >>> Trouble in Pairs Tempt with Discovery >>> Rhystic Study
I was looking forward to this video of yours and coudn't wait, but after seeing your reaction and first impressions of the deck I thought you would swap the face commander or turn Ms. Bumbleflower into a generic and subpar +1/+1 commander, but you did not dissapoint. You really understood what this commander is all about and doubled down on it. I got her deck aswell and went a very similar path, kind of crazy actually how close our lists are, and let me tell you, this precon SLAPS.
Glad you enjoyed it. Its true that I'm not the biggest fan of "Group Hug" decks, but its was the commander was designed for and trying to build her any way outside of that would likely not end well. And in the end, I actually enjoyed how this one turned out despite by bias going into the build.
I literally bought cards for this deck 20 minutes before this video came up. I really like you're choices here. I went more with a +1/+1 counter theme with more instant spells so I can get more uses from her during other players turn. I also recommend replacing the the 3 mana enchantment that gives others a draw for +1/+1 counters with hardened scales.
Man that thing is crazy though. Hardened scales depends on your commander for the +1/+1 and with hardened scales it'll be +2/+2, with Communal Brewing is a flat +4/+4 for each creature you cast. It's honestly awesome.
Understandable - since would be there other way to take her if Group Hug isn't your thing. Hardened Scales would make sense in that build since turning here easy access to +1/+1 counters into 2 counters per spell makes for very nice upside. Good suggestion!
Eh, there's more than one way to build this commander - so there is nothing wrong with taking her in a more +1/+1 counter oriented approach - but I'm glad you also appreciate this version of the build!
Broken wing has a very cool interaction that not many are aware. When you cast it, your commander procs and you can give any opponent creature flying, so Broken Wing can destroy it. So it works on any creature as long as our commander is in play. Just for that I kept it in.
I don't think that works. You need a valid target when you play the card and bumbleflower only makes them fliers after the trigger resolves. Pick your poison works though.
Yeah, this works but only if you cast another spell 1st to give the opponents creature flying - so it is still a bit awkward to use in my opinion (because it locks us into casting 2 spells on an opponents turn if we want to react with it).
i definitely agree with most of the upgrades especially approach of the second sun sinc your drawing like crazy in the deck for stuff i could include i see Ominous Seas - since your drawing lots of cards for the krakens Folio of Fancies - with the drawing you can punish them Kami of Whispered Hopes - bumble flower can just inflate this to give alot of mana plus it's hardening scales on a creature The Watcher in the Waters - when you think about it your also trying to draw during opponents turns with bumbleflower Atemsis, All-Seeing - this is basically a blue phage the untouchable with the sheer draw in the deck Kros, Defense Contractor - you will suddenly realize this will make it eons safer to put counters on your opponents creatures it will cause them to be goaded if you want to go diabolical/evil with your drawing matters you can use these (basically milling your opponents) Psychic Corrosion Sphinx's Tutelage Teferi's Tutelage
Great suggestions overall! Ominous Seas: Didn't test with (since the build ending up focusing more around the alternate wincons) but it would make a great addition since we can usually get at least 1 8/8 a turn off it. Folio of Fancies: Tested with but ending up not adding it since I was not a fan of removing our opponents maximum hand size limit (which meant overdrawing them didn't matter) but I can still see as useful for the mill gameplan. Kami of Whispered Hopes: Didn't test with but yeah, the extra counters and insane amount of ramp it can generate is certainly good alongside our commander. The Watcher in the Waters: We will be drawing a LOT of cards on our opponents turns once into we draw into opponent value piggyback pieces, so they can so work to get more tokens onboard, soft removal, and (eventually) a 9/9 beatstick. Atemsis, All-Seeing: Can theoritally win us the game with a big enough handsize - so it may be worth running as a 5th alternate wincon (and a 4th one that we can recur). Kros, Defense Contractor: He's fun if we want to weaponize our commanders counter distribution to force attacks (& protect ourselves from said attacks). Psychic Corrosion, Sphinx's Tutelage, Teferi's Tutelage - all solid includes if we want to take the build in a more mill focused direction - which we didn't do here but could easily pivot into if we wanted.
Kutzil, Malamet Exemplar is a great budget choice. Notvonly does Kutzil prevent your opponents from doing anything with the cards they draw on your turn, he draws you even more cards. Right now Kutzil is like a dollar and fits into a lot of +1/+1 counter themed decks
Now that you mention it - unless I'm missing something - yes it does! If I'm interpreting the interaction correctly, as soon as they get the extra turn after our turn, Trouble in Pairs stops it.
i'm curious about if you had considered Kros, Defense Contractor for his ability to tab down blockers and then force them to attack and opponent as your creatures will be bigger than your opponents naturally so giving a counter will be a minor thing to give
I did consider Kros, He ended up not making the final build due to the build being more focused around building up our board with out counter distribution rather than targeting our opponents stuff - but I can certainly see the value be brings to the table that effectively turns Ms. Bumbleflower into on demand goad as we cast our spells, as well as a way to get flying blockers out of the way when needed. Good suggestion!
@@GrazzetMTG I'll need to figure what to cut from your suggestions to include it as i feel like it's not as simple as putting the card in where I don't have one in the guide you provided. Thanks you for responding though 🙂
@@odditiescollector4540 my suggestion would be the Wedding Ring. From experience the opponents will benefit more from the Ring than we do, and it will make the other players target you even more than you'd expect.
I don't see the link to vote, but my vote is for Odd Acorn Gang! Looking forward to the upgrades for Family Matters and Animated Army. I enjoyed both right out of the box.
Hello! I came here after seeing your post on Reddit featuring this video. I just wanted to ask if you could do this same treatment for “Family Matters” pre-con deck please! I’d love to get some advice on how to make my pre-con better, mostly because I’m new to MTG. Thank you.
While i like the addition of more counterpulls to help out the base deck removal package I'm curious why you didn't keep a board wipe or find another one-sided wipe I feel running atleast one wipe or multi-tartget removal effect like a baral's expertise?
Eh, I find that wipes are not as good in +1/+1 counter oriented decks just because it takes us a while to build up our creatures and if we wipe we just go back to square 1. That said, I if we're looking to slot in another wipe that works with our build - Mass Manipulation & Heliod's Intervention could be worth considering since this build can amass a LOT of mana, making them functionally one-sided boardwipes. And of course Cyclonic Rift if price is no object.
Holy shit, look at them BUNS!!! of bread, get your mind outta the gutter, yall! Pixar Mom jokes aside, amazing vid as always! Next up... Babies Turbo! That's cute... and VERY deliciously janky. As for my vote... I am split between that rascal Foxglove... and the Acorn gang. Imma pick next time, I guess. Day 1073 of waiting for the Grazzet face reveal... BTW, since this is the cute animal set, do you have any cute animals as pets and such?
Thicc-xar jokes aside, glad you enjoyed the build! Mr. Foxglove & The Acorn Gang are both pretty solid picks - the former with his ability to refresh our hands or cheat gigantic creatures into play for us, the latter with their ability to turn our squirrels into repeatable card advantage & empowering them so they can beat down our opponents - so I can see that being a hard choice And regarding pets - yeah actually. I just got a shelter dog a few months back and she had been a great little companion!
For the sake of new players that come to your channel & ask their friends for the upgrades List the upgrades somewhere so they can copy and paste or have access to...
I mean, the whole reason nadu is cratering in price is because its probably going to get banned. Might be a good idea to come up with something else for that slot.
Have you consider stopping the First Impressions series? The usual cut rate commander upgrades videos are being delayed so much due to those long videos, which is understandable but to be honest, I think having these upgrades arriving so late after the release of the set really takes away a lot of potential viewers that are just eager to upgrade their precons as soon as they are released, and seeing the first impressions series is not gathering that much views I was just wondering, not trying to hate big fan here, I have been waiting for these precon upgrades so much, keep up the good work Grazzet.
Thanks for the feedback! Kaprak and I are still working on adjusting the First Impressions Video's so we can more reasonably release them at a faster rate, which should hopefully make it easier for me to get these precon upgrades up - though this time it was kind of on me for starting on all this a bit late....
I'll add on that we're definitely aware of this, though the delay here was far more due to life and timing than anything else. We're tryin to streamline em as he said, but the thing is... we're gonna do these anyway. I've been more or less doing this with him since about Zendikar Rising. Just decided to start recording em
Hey folks! Below is the complete list of changes made to the deck for you convenience & be sure to let me know in the comments if you agree/disagree with my upgrade suggestions or if there are any cards you think I missed / would also be good includes for this deck. Feedback is always appreciated!
------------------------
Group Hug
-------------------------
Thriving Grove >>> Kami of the Crescent Moon
Jolly Gerbils >>> Howling Mine
Riot Control >>> Dictate of Kruphix
Fisher's Talent >>> Struggle for Project Purity
Broken Wings >>> Oblation
Promise of Loyalty >>> Fall of the First Civilization
Tempt with Bunnies >>> Gluntch, the Bestower
------------------------
Opponent Value
------------------------
Thriving Heath >>> Faerie Mastermind
Octomancer >>> The Council of Four
Coiling Oracle >>> Smuggler's Share
Illusionist's Gambit >>> Wedding Ring
------------------------
Draw Matters
------------------------
Spore Frog >>> Proft's Eidetic Memory
------------------------
No Hand Size
------------------------
Martial Impetus >>> Decanter of Endless Water
------------------------
Alternate Wincons
------------------------
Realm-Cloaked Giant >>> Approach of the Second Sun
------------------------
Flash Speed Casting
------------------------
Perplexing Test >>> Heliod, the Radiant Dawn
Temple of Enlightenment >>> Alchemist's Refuge
------------------------
+1/+1 Counters
------------------------
Sphinx of Enlightenment >>> Evolution Witness
------------------------
Core
-----------------------
Baird, Steward of Argive >>> Nadu, Winged Wisdom
Hoofprints of the Stag >>> Arcane Denial
Coveted Jewel >>> Counterspell
Secret Rendezvous >>> Negate
Thriving Isle >>> Krosan Verge
-----------------------
Additional Upgrades
-----------------------
Peerless Recycling >>> Smothering Tithe
Tamiyo, Field Researcher >>> Trouble in Pairs
Tempt with Discovery >>> Rhystic Study
I was looking forward to this video of yours and coudn't wait, but after seeing your reaction and first impressions of the deck I thought you would swap the face commander or turn Ms. Bumbleflower into a generic and subpar +1/+1 commander, but you did not dissapoint. You really understood what this commander is all about and doubled down on it. I got her deck aswell and went a very similar path, kind of crazy actually how close our lists are, and let me tell you, this precon SLAPS.
Glad you enjoyed it. Its true that I'm not the biggest fan of "Group Hug" decks, but its was the commander was designed for and trying to build her any way outside of that would likely not end well. And in the end, I actually enjoyed how this one turned out despite by bias going into the build.
I've been waiting on this since I ordered this deck a few weeks ago! Thank you so much for another awesome upgrade ❤
Happy to hear you enjoyed it.
I literally bought cards for this deck 20 minutes before this video came up. I really like you're choices here. I went more with a +1/+1 counter theme with more instant spells so I can get more uses from her during other players turn. I also recommend replacing the the 3 mana enchantment that gives others a draw for +1/+1 counters with hardened scales.
Man that thing is crazy though. Hardened scales depends on your commander for the +1/+1 and with hardened scales it'll be +2/+2, with Communal Brewing is a flat +4/+4 for each creature you cast. It's honestly awesome.
Understandable - since would be there other way to take her if Group Hug isn't your thing. Hardened Scales would make sense in that build since turning here easy access to +1/+1 counters into 2 counters per spell makes for very nice upside.
Good suggestion!
Finally, a second group hug deck I can build. Appreciate the upgrade tech, Graz.
Glad you enjoyed it!
originally built this deck upgrade as more of a +1/+1 counter theme, but this seems vastly more interesting w the alternate wincons
Eh, there's more than one way to build this commander - so there is nothing wrong with taking her in a more +1/+1 counter oriented approach - but I'm glad you also appreciate this version of the build!
Broken wing has a very cool interaction that not many are aware. When you cast it, your commander procs and you can give any opponent creature flying, so Broken Wing can destroy it. So it works on any creature as long as our commander is in play. Just for that I kept it in.
I don't think that works. You need a valid target when you play the card and bumbleflower only makes them fliers after the trigger resolves. Pick your poison works though.
Well, not many are aware of that cool interaction because it doesn't work, sorry...
You need a legal target to cast it
Yeah, this works but only if you cast another spell 1st to give the opponents creature flying - so it is still a bit awkward to use in my opinion (because it locks us into casting 2 spells on an opponents turn if we want to react with it).
@@topiask5315 yeah, unfortunately you're right. But damn that would be such a cool interaction if it worked like that. Oh well.
i definitely agree with most of the upgrades especially approach of the second sun sinc your drawing like crazy in the deck
for stuff i could include i see
Ominous Seas - since your drawing lots of cards for the krakens
Folio of Fancies - with the drawing you can punish them
Kami of Whispered Hopes - bumble flower can just inflate this to give alot of mana plus it's hardening scales on a creature
The Watcher in the Waters - when you think about it your also trying to draw during opponents turns with bumbleflower
Atemsis, All-Seeing - this is basically a blue phage the untouchable with the sheer draw in the deck
Kros, Defense Contractor - you will suddenly realize this will make it eons safer to put counters on your opponents creatures it will cause them to be goaded
if you want to go diabolical/evil with your drawing matters you can use these (basically milling your opponents)
Psychic Corrosion
Sphinx's Tutelage
Teferi's Tutelage
Great suggestions overall!
Ominous Seas: Didn't test with (since the build ending up focusing more around the alternate wincons) but it would make a great addition since we can usually get at least 1 8/8 a turn off it.
Folio of Fancies: Tested with but ending up not adding it since I was not a fan of removing our opponents maximum hand size limit (which meant overdrawing them didn't matter) but I can still see as useful for the mill gameplan.
Kami of Whispered Hopes: Didn't test with but yeah, the extra counters and insane amount of ramp it can generate is certainly good alongside our commander.
The Watcher in the Waters: We will be drawing a LOT of cards on our opponents turns once into we draw into opponent value piggyback pieces, so they can so work to get more tokens onboard, soft removal, and (eventually) a 9/9 beatstick.
Atemsis, All-Seeing: Can theoritally win us the game with a big enough handsize - so it may be worth running as a 5th alternate wincon (and a 4th one that we can recur).
Kros, Defense Contractor: He's fun if we want to weaponize our commanders counter distribution to force attacks (& protect ourselves from said attacks).
Psychic Corrosion, Sphinx's Tutelage, Teferi's Tutelage - all solid includes if we want to take the build in a more mill focused direction - which we didn't do here but could easily pivot into if we wanted.
Mrs Bumbleflower and Mr.Foxglove + Wedding ring :3
Thanks for the decklist. Always wanted to try a group hug deck
I mean - that is what Mr. Foxglove is hoping for!
Glad to hear you enjoyed the build and hope it works for you if/when you try it out!
Kutzil, Malamet Exemplar is a great budget choice. Notvonly does Kutzil prevent your opponents from doing anything with the cards they draw on your turn, he draws you even more cards.
Right now Kutzil is like a dollar and fits into a lot of +1/+1 counter themed decks
Would Trouble in Pairs deny the gifted player and extra turn when you play Perch Protection?
Because that would be hilarious
Now that you mention it - unless I'm missing something - yes it does! If I'm interpreting the interaction correctly, as soon as they get the extra turn after our turn, Trouble in Pairs stops it.
Any cards that could protect against decking yourself? This looks cool but Id be worried about matching into a Mill deck
i'm curious about if you had considered Kros, Defense Contractor for his ability to tab down blockers and then force them to attack and opponent as your creatures will be bigger than your opponents naturally so giving a counter will be a minor thing to give
I did consider Kros, He ended up not making the final build due to the build being more focused around building up our board with out counter distribution rather than targeting our opponents stuff - but I can certainly see the value be brings to the table that effectively turns Ms. Bumbleflower into on demand goad as we cast our spells, as well as a way to get flying blockers out of the way when needed.
Good suggestion!
@@GrazzetMTG I'll need to figure what to cut from your suggestions to include it as i feel like it's not as simple as putting the card in where I don't have one in the guide you provided.
Thanks you for responding though 🙂
@@odditiescollector4540 my suggestion would be the Wedding Ring. From experience the opponents will benefit more from the Ring than we do, and it will make the other players target you even more than you'd expect.
I don't see the link to vote, but my vote is for Odd Acorn Gang! Looking forward to the upgrades for Family Matters and Animated Army. I enjoyed both right out of the box.
Gotta vote for that Odd Acorn Gang
First, and excellent as always!
Glad you thinks so and thanks for dropping by so fast!
Hello! I came here after seeing your post on Reddit featuring this video. I just wanted to ask if you could do this same treatment for “Family Matters” pre-con deck please! I’d love to get some advice on how to make my pre-con better, mostly because I’m new to MTG. Thank you.
The Family Matters precon is going to be one one I'll be upgrading next - so stay tuned for that coming soon!
While i like the addition of more counterpulls to help out the base deck removal package I'm curious why you didn't keep a board wipe or find another one-sided wipe I feel running atleast one wipe or multi-tartget removal effect like a baral's expertise?
Eh, I find that wipes are not as good in +1/+1 counter oriented decks just because it takes us a while to build up our creatures and if we wipe we just go back to square 1. That said, I if we're looking to slot in another wipe that works with our build - Mass Manipulation & Heliod's Intervention could be worth considering since this build can amass a LOT of mana, making them functionally one-sided boardwipes. And of course Cyclonic Rift if price is no object.
@@GrazzetMTG what would you suggest to replace Cyclonic Rift with?
Noice
Holy shit, look at them BUNS!!! of bread, get your mind outta the gutter, yall! Pixar Mom jokes aside, amazing vid as always!
Next up... Babies Turbo! That's cute... and VERY deliciously janky. As for my vote... I am split between that rascal Foxglove... and the Acorn gang. Imma pick next time, I guess.
Day 1073 of waiting for the Grazzet face reveal... BTW, since this is the cute animal set, do you have any cute animals as pets and such?
Thicc-xar jokes aside, glad you enjoyed the build!
Mr. Foxglove & The Acorn Gang are both pretty solid picks - the former with his ability to refresh our hands or cheat gigantic creatures into play for us, the latter with their ability to turn our squirrels into repeatable card advantage & empowering them so they can beat down our opponents - so I can see that being a hard choice
And regarding pets - yeah actually. I just got a shelter dog a few months back and she had been a great little companion!
For the sake of new players that come to your channel & ask their friends for the upgrades
List the upgrades somewhere so they can copy and paste or have access to...
There is a full list of all the cards that where changed in the pinned comment of the video. Hope that helps!
I mean, the whole reason nadu is cratering in price is because its probably going to get banned. Might be a good idea to come up with something else for that slot.
Hey, until then, I’ll be picking it up for cheaper then.
Well if it's gonna be banned... why would the price go back up quickly? If anything a ban would lower it even further.
Tbh I don't think Nadu eats a Commander ban, definitely high probability of Modern.
That may be true but I highly doubt its going to be banned in commander - though certainly will in other formats.
Where is the vote for the commander?
The polls are in the community tab for the channel here: ua-cam.com/channels/slo3TL1qjWgv65igG92Y2w.htmlcommunity
@@GrazzetMTG Oh that makes sense. Thank you for the great videos also
Have you consider stopping the First Impressions series? The usual cut rate commander upgrades videos are being delayed so much due to those long videos, which is understandable but to be honest, I think having these upgrades arriving so late after the release of the set really takes away a lot of potential viewers that are just eager to upgrade their precons as soon as they are released, and seeing the first impressions series is not gathering that much views I was just wondering, not trying to hate big fan here, I have been waiting for these precon upgrades so much, keep up the good work Grazzet.
Thanks for the feedback! Kaprak and I are still working on adjusting the First Impressions Video's so we can more reasonably release them at a faster rate, which should hopefully make it easier for me to get these precon upgrades up - though this time it was kind of on me for starting on all this a bit late....
I'll add on that we're definitely aware of this, though the delay here was far more due to life and timing than anything else. We're tryin to streamline em as he said, but the thing is... we're gonna do these anyway. I've been more or less doing this with him since about Zendikar Rising. Just decided to start recording em