Decoding The 64mm Freewing F-14 Tomcat - Model AV8R Early-Week Special
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- Опубліковано 5 лип 2024
- Easy to fly, tough to land?? In this rare early-week episode release, we bring in Dustin again with his Freewing twin 64mm F-14 Tomcat. This plane seems to be a puzzle many can't seem to figure out, and Dustin has some info that may be able to help. He'll discuss landing technique, common issues with the plane, and address a frequently asked question about it. He'll also narrate two new quick demo flights, one with the wings extended, and one with the wings fully swept the entire flight! We'll also include Dustin's full set-up. Hopefully, this will help some pilots with what has the potential be a great jet...when it is handled correctly.
Chapters:
00:00 Intro
00:28 Common Issues/How To Avoid Them
06:21 Landing Techniques/Tips
09:02 Flight Footage: Wings Extended
13:09 Flight Footage: Wings Swept (From T.O. to Land)
16:38 New Flap Settings/FAQ/Final Thoughts On Skill Level
24:22 Dustin's Set-Up Info Page
#new #aviation #help - Розваги
Way too many pilots expect a fighter jet to handle like a Timber. It needs thrust to land, very much like the full scale counterpart. Happy to see you guys clearing this up for people.
Yep. Dustin thought this might help some folks.
@@ModelAV8RChannel Very helpful !
Thanks Dustin for the information. Especially the extra flap deflection. It made the landings smoother. I have 15 flights on it. It gets better the more you fly it. It is a challenge to fly well,definitely deserves respect .
That swept wing takeoff and landing was wild haha
Yep, surprised me too!
Thank you Adam for having Dustin on to share his knowledge and insight on this beautiful plane. I think one of the greatest advancements in modern R/C is the light wing loading making planes do things they could never do in real life, but it gets so many people in trouble when they move to high wing loaded planes, by the time a person is ready for this they should know that.
Thanks man. Yep Dustin thought this might help some folks, so here we are!
Excellent video. Always learning something from you on this channel. I love this bird. I put two Hacker StreamFan 2900kv 70m EDFs with Hacker ESCs. It was a long process hoaning the foam out and reinforcing the foam with minwax and lightweight glass cloth. I also replaced all the servos with MKS servos. It is a rocket ship that has not had issues yet. Knock on wood. It's the first time I spent lots of money on electronics for a foamy. I just love it that much. I spent double the kit's price on electronics. I also bought 3 extra PNP kits in case something happens or they get discontinued. (Yes I love it that much) Thanks again for sharing this bird and the advice from the pilot. Keep up the great work.
Thanks man! Wow, you do love them! Awesome.
Great info, Dustin! Thanks for hooking us up with this video, Adam.
Lots to digest here. 👍
Thanks Al! Dustin did a great job!
Great video as ever and very useful. One observation I had was the demands on the pilot will be increased where you have to turn tight finals and/or have to deal with turbulence off trees etc. and/or land on a short runway. I can see it being a lot easier if you are able to turn finals a decent way out and at a decent height and then turn attention to achieving/getting a feel for commanding a suitable rate of descent as well as (given a long runway) bring able to land when the plane is nicely set up, even if that doesn't happen at the ideal point on the runway. On the videos, I could see how much skill was needed to avoid disaster at that field and in those conditions. Well done that man 👍
Thanks man! There is a bit more room than the lenses show, but it was a challenging day none the less, and Dustin did a great job. We do get some funky winds due to the trees you see as well as the ones behind us.
@@ModelAV8RChannel I could tell from his turn rate and while descending, that this was a circuit where you had to be able to multitask well. I think some of the big flat sites ought to make it easier to learn the Tomcats ways at a more leisurely pace. Then again, this is not a suitable plane as a first or even second EDF so maybe its for pilots who are already on top of that game. And then again, Miramer gives even the best of the best a bit more space for settling in than a rolling aircraft carrier flight deck 👍😆
Great Video Adam👏🏾 !
like with anything else that looks cool or is worth while; it takes work to be good at. Folks want the pot of gold but don’t want to traverse the rainbow of challenges that it takes to get there. SMH. Tomcat pilots called the plane a beast and often said it could scare them silly. The twin 64 is fast, looks amazing in the air, sounds fantastic and test the size of your stones regularly! What more could you ask for?…..
Thanks man! I'm with you. I like the challenge of a plane that requires some skill and technique...especially if it is a scale plane. I want the "scale experience" so to speak. Not everybody agrees though...
This is very well explained! It's pretty how I try to explain to people when they ask me about this jet. I hate that this plane gets a bad rap when it's actually a pretty awesome plane. It just takes a certain amount of skill to fly it, especially landing it, and unfortunately, not everyone has that amount of skill to do so. Not only is it not for a beginner, but it's also not for someone who doesn't have the right amount of skill. Having said that, practice makes perfect but practice with a different plane before jumping into this one. Well done fellas! 👏👏🫡🫡
Thanks man! Yep, a lot of planes get a bad rap due to a lack of humility on the pilots part...the Twin 40mm Tomcat comes to mind as well.
I've said these exact same comments about this plane to everyone at the field that asks about it.
It's like you reached into my brain...lol
Lol. Great Jet, but not for everybody.
Thank you Both for this video, very thorough and informative. As tom said in 1985 top gun movie I have the need for speed!
Hey Dennis! Yep, we were glad to do it. Dustin's idea.
Simply put, you said it best at the end. This is Not a beginner jet. It flies like the 80mm it's heavy, it flies heavy, and requires power much like a warbird. You two did a great job dispensing some issues and explaining solutions. Thanks for the great follow up. 👍🏼👍🏼
Thank you David! You know brother...nobody but you can bush fly with a Tomcat!
@@ModelAV8RChannel I was doing it with a viper 90 and an F-22 this morning lol
@davidsnyder238 Two things...Awesome, and not surprised! Lol
Well done Adam and Dustin. I've seen lots of YT folks having issues. As usual, its a pilot error on not flying THIS plane correctly.. Your video should really help pilots get the most of this plane ..
Thanks Will. Yes sir, "It's the plane" is used way more often than it is accurate.
Excellent video Team AV8R. The wise pilot will take heed and avoid unnecessary pain and destruction 😁. Keep up the good work!
Thanks Mike!
Another good video ! It is cool that Dustin is so experienced with this jet that he is able to display it quite well. The swept wing take off sure looked sharp. Since you both commented about landing with power - it seems quite necessary to have a good feel for the available power left in the battery. He had to go around some, and if there wasn't enough battery capacity to do this I'm guessing things would go bad in a hurry.
Thanks man! Yep, this one requires energy and time management.
Outstanding! you two make a great team, the aerodynamic incite was like food for the starving. I had my first perfect landing ever with my BTD (beat to death) F/A-18 and it was just the same procedure that Justin described, power to idle on the final descent, about -30 yards out throttle to a high idle, adjust as needed for glide slope/ rate of descent, AOA, lineup.... BOOM caught the 3 wire
Thanks Pappy! Congrats on mastering the F-18. That is another one that won't land itself.
Very good advice. I ended up selling mine because I couldn't get the landings right because I was coming in too fast or coming in with a high AOA and stalling it. After I almost hit a fellow pilot after it bounced and stalled, I decided it was time to move on.
I understand. Might be a plane to revisit later.
If they update the 80. My other issue is the size.
Thank you for the video.
very informative and interesting ! 👍
Thanks!
Good info and review Dustin and Adam I like this edf but I know I am not ready for it good video 😊👍👍👍
Thanks Frank!
I think this is one jet i will avoid Adam. There were so many problems i read about with the 50mm one as well.
Great interview/ discussion.
Thanks Noel! Yep, Tomcats are a different breed. Great planes, but require different skills than you average EDF.
Thanks for the video Adam and Dustin. Can I ask a question please? What route would you suggest to start flying the F-14? I have many years flying R/C planes, and my ambition is to fly the F-14, but I want to build my skill set first. I started with the FMS 80mm Hawk, and now also flying the FMS Rafale to get comfortable with high alpha approaches and landings. Wondering if I should go for the F-14 next, or do you think something like the Freewing F-35 next. Thanks for your great videos - Neil from the UK
Hey Dustin here, that's a tough question. haha. Having not flown either the Rafale or the F-35 myself, I'm going to answer a little indirectly here.
My best advice for an EDF that will prepare you to fly the F-14, is to find something that is somewhat heavy, and that takes a smooth and precise landing approach. You want to get used to flying the plane all the way to the ground, and not flaring very much. You can't just flare it out and plop it down in high alpha with the F-14 (except with the wings back haha). You also probably want to get used to flying something that will drop a wing in a turn if you get slow, or if you pull too hard even when fast.
I'll say the Freewing 90mm T-45 is a great flying jet, but it takes a very precise landing approach to grease the landings. It has a tendency to stall hard if you flare to much or get to slow, so you really have to fly it all the way down. I also know from experience this plane will drop a wing in a fast turn when you pull too hard, or in a slow turn when you get too slow... (I crashed mine in the turn to final during a low pass once, just got too slow in the turn and the wing dropped on me about 50ft off the ground, luckily it was repaired). So I guess I'd recommend that one, but its a 90mm and not exactly a cheap trainer jet, so maybe not so practical. I will note that I have flown the FMS 80mm Hawk (the original T-45 I suppose) and that model is a bit lighter and fly's incredible, it does not require the things I describe above that the 90mm T-45 does.
The Freewing 90mm F-18 will also drop a wing in flight if you push it, and it has to be flown to the ground with power in order to get a nice landing. Also not a cheap trainer.
Honestly I've flown or owned quite a few other EDFs and I'm really not sure I have one that I feel like is a perfect step up to the F-14. At the end of the day they all fly a little different, and part of the fun to me is learning their quirks. The F-14 is definitely finicky on landing, but its 100% doable if you practice it. Be sure you're comfortable with a fast heavyish EDF, and then just practice mastering the landings (smooth, power on, barely flare). In the air the F-14 fly's great as long as you respect it.
Last tip, I think I mentioned it in the video, but put a mix to raise the flaps as soon as you turn reverse thrust on. It'll kill your lift as soon as you touch down and reduce the likely hood of bouncing.
Hope that's somewhat helpful, thanks for watching.
@@grcvid Hey Dustin, thank you so much for such a detailed reply. That information is so helpful. Really interested that you have flow the FMS Hawk (which I have) and found it didnt drop a wing like the Freewing T45 (I assumed they would fly pretty much the same as each other) I totally get that the best option is a heavy, high wing loaded 90mm. I think, going on your advice above that I'll go for the Freewing F18 as my final stepping stone!
I'm totally with you on the fun of learning is kind of exploring the unknown flight characteristics!
Thanks again for you very kind and thoughtful advice
Neil
@@Guitarshak Hey no worries at all. I was actually pretty surprised at how different the T-45 flew as well. I had flown a friends Hawk and really liked it, then ended up finding a cheap T-45 a few weeks later, so I couldn't pass it up. But yea, it bit me several times before I figured it out the differences haha.
There also may be a cheaper option than a 90mm to practice, but I can only go by what I've flown and those are the closest.
I do really like the 90mm F-18, its a bit more agile and it lands a little different than the F-14 but I definitely feel like if you can fly that one, you can definitely figure out the F-14. I actually have a buddy that thinks my F-14 is easier to fly than my F-18 for what thats worth. I'll leave you with one other weird F-18 thing, if you get slow in a knife edge it goes crazy. If you look on my channel at "Freewing F-18 On Board Video" at about 43 seconds you can see it totally depart and then recover after I did that.
Good luck and hope you enjoy whatever you end up getting.
they better start making these with soft wheels!
Or what? You not gonna buy planes over $10 worth of wheels?
@@ModelAV8RChannel these planes are so light they land and bounce hard softer wheels! simple!
It's not that simple though. The factories in China buy tires in the thousands. They have a ton of the cheap, hard tires on hand that are paid for. They know folks want softer tires, and that may happen later on, but for now...they are going to get their moneys worth out of the investment they've already made. In the mean time, softer tires are inexpensive and the easiest thing on a plane to change for the end user. Also...I have zero issues landing a plane with hard tires smooth. If the plane bounces, in most cases...it is the pilot.
@@ModelAV8RChannel it bounced in vid
Yes it did...and that was a crappy landing on the pilots part, and Dustin admitted to having not his best day on the sticks. Looking for excuses won't make you a better pilot. When I bounce one...its me. When you bounce one...its you. Not the tires. Watch our first F-14 vid...Dustin greases it in...with the same tires.
Absolutely Brilliant - exactly what was needed regarding all the Misinformation around this Aircraft - lets hope this helps a lot of pilots handle this Bird with some confidence , (Including yours truly) Now I know , and Knowing is half the battle - See what I did Adam ? thanks Dustin.
I do see what you did Martyn! Lol.
Why is the aerodynamic guy not talking about the wingtips? They put a laminator flow airfoil on the wingtips that’s why this thing sucks at landing so many model mustangs have been ruined by putting in a laminator flowing on them.
Dustin may chime in.
I have no idea what "Laminator Flow" is, but all wings have Laminar flow regardless of the airfoil shape. Full scale mustangs had what they called a "Laminar Airfoil"...which was an airfoil that moved the thickest part of the wing more to the center to increase the speed of the laminar flow over the wing...which increased the speed of the plane. Pretty much no model mustang has this kind of wing as a model with that kind of wing won't fly worth a darn. The Reynolds number of a model doesn't translate with that kind of airfoil because you can't scale down the atmosphere. Most models use a more conventional (and forgiving) airfoil with the thickest part of the wing at between 20 and 30 % from the leading edge. I've flown a lot of model Mustangs (like 20 different ones)...none of them had a Laminar airfoil, and they all flew fine for me. The biggest difference in the ones that are less forgiving is a higher wing loading not the airfoil. I've seen many that can't fly them well...and many had excuses. Somehow its always the plane but never the pilot, lol.
When it comes to this F-14, some guys can land it, and some can't. Dustin gave instruction on how to do it successfully. If it was as bad as you say it is he couldn't do it, I couldn't do it...no one could. If it had a laminar airfoil wing like a full scale Mustang that would cause issues elsewhere. We don't think it it is a bad flyer at all, and it doesn't suck at landing if its executed correctly. We know the popular thing on RCG is to blame the wingtip design...and there may be a legit minor issue, but the 3 Dustin has flown land just fine...so clearly it isn't a huge issue that technique can't overcome. The video isn't about pissing and moaning about an airplane...its about sharing how Dustin has managed to get the best out of it.
Hey Dustin here, main reasons I didn't touch on that is simply because: 1. I was able to find a way to land it regardless of wingtip design, and 2. I honestly can't tell exactly what airfoil they have on there. I'm also an Aero Engineer by degree, but work as a Mech engineer day to day, so I'm a little rusty on the details of a some things (ie I would have had to do research for a hobby haha). Personally I suspect the airfoil could have been chosen as much for manufacturing and structural concerns as it was for aerodynamics on something this small. Either way, the landings are interesting, but they can be mastered with some practice. Thanks for watching.
@@grcvid well I’ve been flying for 35 years gliders hot liners quickie races. I have plenty of landings on the big 14 and lots of landings on the little one and this thing will bite you. I’ve flown almost everything they have from motion and there’s some good ones and not good ones. This thing flies amazing but they screwed up on the wingtip, I flatten the bottom of the wingtip increase the cord by a quarter of an inch and moved the High Point to 30% I can pull full elevator on landing with high Alpha and not stall. Why is everybody defending this thing? The wings suck and I proved it by changing it
@@mrdestroyer7815 You can do things a long time and still not be good at it, but if you think that matters so much...I've been flying high performance RC planes for 42 years, lol. Here's the thing man...whether it sucks landing or it doesn't is a matter of opinion, and yours isn't the only one that counts. We're not "defending it"...we're not having the issues you are with it. There are three of us landing them consistently with success. Yeah, it will bite you if you screw up...lots of planes will do that, so we focus and don't screw it up. If by chance we do screw up, we wear big boy pants and own it. We know how to do it right, so if we don't its on us. Simple as that. If you want to monkey around with the wing tips knock yourself out. You want to make it high alpha like an F-16...which a real F-14 won't do...knock yourself out. This video is about telling people how to land it with success they way it is out of the box...we are using the techniques within and they work for three of us (and others by the way). So that "proves" our theory so to speak if you want to go there. All you have "proved" is that you got lucky and sanded things just so...and it worked for you. Have you even considered how hard it would be to instruct people you don't know of varying skill levels to sand a perfect airfoil tip?? A fraction too much sanding here or not enough there and it could be a crap show. It would take a great deal of knowledge of airfoils and aerodynamics as well as some real modeling skill and confidence to do that correctly time after time, wing after wing. Expecting that every Joe the RC flyer guy could do it correctly is a real stretch. Many don't have the knowledge or modeling skill to do that correctly and stand more of a chance of making things worse rather than better, so I think that is a very misdirected piece of advise. Bottom line... If you want to modify it go for it, but we don't have to agree with you or do things your way any more than you are required to do it our way.
@@ModelAV8RChannel did you just say I was not a good pilot cause that’s what it sounds like experience does matter and I can assure you I’m not gonna get into my dick is bigger than yours as far as flying is concerned it’s not a matter of opinion that the 64 mm F 14 sucks when it comes to Landing it drops a wing as soon as that nose comes up too high every other video and UA-camr, who is a good pilot have wrecked this thing you have had issues with it. I’ve seen your landings. They’re good good good then not a good. You shouldn’t have to work that hard. It’s the wingtip. The 80 mm doesn’t have his problem. It’s just heavy. What are you getting paid by motion?