The perfect aircraft for Electric Aviation (ESTOL)
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- Опубліковано 2 жов 2024
- In this video we will look at ESTOL aircraft and how the Antonov AN-2 can be the perfect template for modern ESTOL aircraft.
Recently SIBNIA modified two Antonov AN-2 aircraft and got remarkable results.
I love those An2 updated versions - hadn't seen those before. Seems like the possibilities of STOL have been rather forgotten in the race for VTOL urban transport. STOL makes much more sense I would think. The infrastructure is just what IC aircraft use already.
Yeah but that's the problem: you need infrastructure. I recently got my pilots licence and I find it very limiting that I can only go where there is an airstrip. For aviation to grow I think it needs to become more useful, so you need to be able to go more places then just airports. EVTOL if done right has the potential to remove need for any infrastructure. But I definailty think EVTOLs should be able to do STOL wherever possible.
@@thomaswiwchar1661 Oh sure, don't get me wrong, EVTOl is a great idea, but it's nice to be able to start with and work within an existing framework too. It's less of a reach I guess you'd say.
@@thomaswiwchar1661 Yeah. I've been dreaming about a STOL waterplane but even there you can only land at specially designated water airports in my country. For actual traveling it seems rather complicated.
@@thomaswiwchar1661 The Electra E-Stol concept seems very reasonable, especially in comparison to VTOL vaporware.
Turbine powered e Hybrid with a blown wing, doesn't depend on huge battery packs and recharging.
i think the Solid State batteries which are just around the corner and developments in perovskites WILL usher in a new breed of electric aviations. I am also highly optimistic for Green Hydrogen/ Fuel Cell planes too.
I think so too.
Even if we do go with EVTOL, I think they should be able to behave as an STOL whenever possible to save on energy, as well as a safety measure. the AN-2 looks like one of the safest planes you could ever fly- and I think the ability to land an aircraft safely without power is critical. as much as I like the blackfly aircraft, I would not count on ballistic parachutes as they do no good when you are too close to the ground for them to deploy, but high enough to fall to your death... would be really good if it could glide safely and land.
Danke, ich war Fluglehrer auf der An-2 und wir hatten Start- und Landestrecken von rund 50 Meter bei Klappenstellungen von 45 Grad und natürlich 1000 PS Startleistung.
Wow!. Good to know
A seminal video! Well argued and so interesting. Most of the area of any Airport is not runways at all. It is obvious that any heliport that could handle 10 helicopters would need to be no longer and only slightly wider to be able to handle 10 STOL aircraft instead of VTOL.
The An2 updated aircraft are wonderful. Archipelago countries like the Philippines will benefit greatly. Adding solar panels and batteries would enable true go anywhere aeroplanes
You present a valid argument for STOL port. I will consider it for a next video
The An-2 was a nice bit of aviation history to learn about, and seeing the updated variants and potential uses for ESTOL/USTOL in general were pretty neat. Thanks for another super informative, enjoyable video. I hope day these ideas on ESTOL get a little more light shed on them!
Love the AN-2 and how versatile it is, constantly changing and adapting, a real work horse. And the newest model looks very promising indeed.
Many good points and perspectives! About VTOL, we've had helicopters for many decades, they haven't caught on for everyday transportation for the masses, I don't think fixed or semi fixed wing EVTOL compromises will be the path to general adoption of electric aviation. If there's not room for USTOL, there's limited room for VTOL.
Fully agreed
Around 1964, while visiting my grandmother in Ukraine, we flew from Korosten to Zitomir in an AN-2. We had a goat on board as one of the passengers. This was probably not its first flight because she was sleeping all the way. Apparently, this was normal.🤔
Good video. You pretty much described my design to build a replacement electric aircraft for agricultural spray aircraft. Glad to have more validation of using this approach!
Glad I could help!
EVTOL and EVSTOL are not exclusive choices. Of course there will be market niches for both, depending on the mission. If you are traveling between a private airport and a fishing lake, then a EVSTOL plane makes a lot more sense, with the added range and float plane abilities. For a cab flight from a back yard to the top of a downtown building, an EVTOL makes a lot more sense. Plenty of room for both types of aircraft.
EVTOL, in comparison to ESTOL, really only has superior utility for transport in megacities where ground transportation times within the urban core are long even for short distances. Thus EVTOL would be the only real solution for trips between points within the urban core (skyscraper roof to skyscraper roof). And EVTOL is also likely the only viable choice for longer trips from suburban and exurban areas to the city core. This is because the distance to the edge of the core where a STOL port could operate is far enough to require a substantial amount of ground travel time just to go from the STOL port to destinations near the heart of the core. Obvious examples are cities like New York and Hong Kong.
However, the vast majority of cities have an urban core that is only a few miles across. For these cities the challenge isn't getting from one building in the urban core to another without a long taxi or subway ride, rather it is dealing with urban sprawl and highway congestion. Examples of these are Los Angeles and Dallas-Fort Worth. In these cities there are potential locations for STOL ports close to the urban core in the deteriorating brownfield sites left over from a time when most cities had a large manufacturing area immediately adjacent to the city core. Travel time from the STOL port to any building in the urban core would only be a few minutes. In suburban and exurban areas there would likely be plenty of areas which could accomodate a STOL port (maybe something to do with the massive shopping malls that are slowly dying due to Amazon and other online shopping).
Also noise is likely to be the limiting factor in any aircraft's ability to operate in densely populated areas. The very high disc loading of most EVTOL result in high rpm rotors and high induced velocities. Both are sources of high frequency sounds, which most people find to be more annoying than the same amount of sound pressure at lower frequencies. The propellers on STOL aircraft have much lower disc loading and can easily be designed to avoid transsonic tip speeds. Even STOL aircraft like the modernized AN-2 with high-lift propulsors on the lower wing, would not require the high disc loading of distributed EVTOL lift rotors, and so would not contribute greatly to the total noise. Without an engine, ESTOL is likely to have a low enough noise level to not outrage nearby residents, and so could gain community acceptance much more readily than would EVTOL, which is likely to be much louder and at higher frequencies for the same payload as an ESTOL.
Power transmission lines crisscross countries. Pity a conductor wire couldn't be slung above them with electric aeroplanes taking charge from underslung pantographs. Smaller batteries to get them to a pylon from landing area, recharge in flight. Don't suppose planes at 100m would be acceptable.
I've thought about the possibilities of a biplane for STOL and slow flight capabilities, but always thought there's nothing happening there at all. Love the latest updates on the AN-2. Thank you very much for bringing them up - good research 👏
An2 is cool, but the landing on buildings animations are pie in the sky fruitcake dreams.
Basically ESTOL must be able to take of from an Acre of land
So Many Exciting Possibilities. I hope many other hobbyists are investigating these options in their builds.
E stall ,if an aircraft can carry 50passengers and take off in under 1000feet what a game changer it would be .?✈️✈️✈️💗
Estol is much simpler and more effective (biplane example). Vtol is for military applications where hovering is needed.
Im not sure when Nasa did its distributed thrust expts... but in the RC modelling field long before brushless motors and Lithium power packs.. I new of a builder who had a large wingspan slope soarer glider with six or eight dowels glued into the leading edge to which were mounted simple cheap speed 400 can motors equipped with small fixed push on Gunther propellers.. It flew brilliantly and climbed really well.. having reached a desired altitude it could still glide well and power into manouvers .
if we are going to introduce a cadre of inexperienced pilots into the aircraft sphere, we should put a higher focus on safety by eliminating stall behaviours.
There are a whole lot of interesting biplanes around like the staggerwing and the DH Rapide and Dragonfly I would like to see reborn.
Absolutely! it would be great if these new Electric EVTOL planes were as safe to fly /crash land as the AN2
My Vote: eSTOL!
(My favorite Airplane that I've Flown, was the Cessna 182 Skylane! The Best "STOL Upgrade" of that, was the "WREN 460" if I recall correctly! it added a Canard beside the Cowling, right behind the Propeller, Flap Functions added to the Ailerons, and Controllable Vanes or "Wrens Teeth", *atop the Wing, to control "Adverse Yaw" - but, leaning on the idea of the Maxwell 57, or the one Variant if the AN-2, with Added Electric Motors, the "WREN" could be "Tweaked" for even Better STOL Capabilities!)
You know the King Katmai? :-)
@@Walterwaltraud - Katmai 260? I believe that was a Follow On from the Wren 460!
Another great design that might suit E stol is the legendary Hyperbipe sport plane. Where the fuselage also forms a rectangular aerofoil section.
Another is the Britain Norman Trislander.
Evtol or Estol
Why not Both?
With EVTOL you loose range. Its basically a compromise between landing and takeoff performancce vs range
Great video, hugely interesting. I too love the AN2 updates and mods, brilliant results. Thankyou from Rome👍🇬🇧
Glad you enjoyed it
I'm surprised no one has come out with a squirrel cage blower design on the front edge of the wing. Why not have this on the leading edge of the wing instead of props for take off.
Given that battery energy density is increasing better than 7%/yr it won’t be an Achilles heel for electric aviation for much longer, and the penalty of the extra power demand during takeoff/landing in EVTOL will mean less every year. Thus, the extra time, energy, and expense in developing ESTOLs will have less of a payoff in the long run compared to EVTOL.
I’ll hold out for a Lilium someday!
This has already been decided, eVTOL for in city, eSTOL for near city, and extended range electric aircraft for longer distances. Small 2 seater, max payload of 500 lbs. is all that's required.
Please address noise. I think the winner will be the most quiet. VTOL and STOL are largely irrelevant by comparison
The Channelwing was fascinating. The problem was that for safety the engines have to be cross shafted to each other for safety, in case one of them fails. Heavy, complex, and expensive.
Excellent analyse in this video. To bundle a helicopter with an aeroplane will result in a sub optimized design. Unfortunately economics and lawyers are making all decisions, so we won't see any well considered concepts for quite some time.
When we consider the airspace over a city that Evetol will use do you think that they will all need greater vertical capacity. I can visualise a situation where the aircraft have to ascend up to an appropriate altitude before starting on their flight path if the air space area is very congested, this will obviously use a lot more power than transitioning straight to horizontal flight, same scenario for landing
Somebody pls subtitle this, the indenglish is impossible to understand.
There is an alternative to distributed thrust...as used on some advanced stols like the Shin Mewa flyingboats and thats blown flaps....this requires a smaller gas turbine in the wing shoulder blowing exaust gas through ducts.. and out over all control surfaces.
Could this be done electrically?
You can have a air compressor that is electrically driven and than discharge that air over the wings. A company is already doing it. They are called Jetoptera.
@@ElectricAviation
Thanks i saw your report on that one .
Im thinking of larger aircraft but it may happen .. there comes a point when a STOL aircraft moves so slowly through the air that as you pointed out it can become unresponsive ....unless all the control surfaces are blown.
Historically one of the most complex Stol aircraft was the French Bre design that Mc Donald trialed as the 188. ua-cam.com/video/BZavOHg0ch4/v-deo.html
@@clivestainlesssteelwomble7665 What an aircraft the 188. Thanks for sharing
@@ElectricAviation
It has to have the most complex
Power distribution system🤯 ever...whilst also pioneering the distributed thrust arrangement as starting point.
Always happy when you publish a new video. All the best!
Thank you very much!
What if we electrolyse water on board and burn the hydrogen
All very nice but all I've seen for years is images of drones
Estol probably is the best choice.
Spoken numbers in this video do not always match numbers on screen. E.g., range = 1300 km (spoken) or 3000 km (written)
Its 3000 km. I didnt read the script correctly
Może level willa be the deciding factor.
9:50 bullshit. patents for that are all expired.
Mong chị ra video hướng dẫn bài "phút giao thừa lặng lẽ" hoặc "khúc giao mùa" 😇殺
Chúc cho Đức Thật nhiều sức khỏe.
Where do we need more propellers? Everywhere!
At 7:03 the narration says range increased to 1300km but on-screen graphics says range increased to 3000km!
3000 km is the right one. I made a mistake reading script
@@ElectricAviation Wow, well then that’s amazing range!
Is estol quieter than a vtol?
Why not eV/STOL?
Fascinating!
very good information, thank you!
Glad it was helpful!
Rey interesting!
Brilliant again
Thank you for the information. 😊
Any time!
Thanks for your videos! I learn all amazing things from you
Happy to hear that!
Evtol
Has patent and design expired so these are no open source?
The last patent to my knowledge was filed in 1947. There might be another patent filed by Custer, but I am unaware of that. Given that life of a patent is generally 20 years, it might be up for grabs
Awesome!
Thanks!
Very informative
Thank you
My pleasure