Hi, What you are experiencing about softing up of high midrange, and less forward sound is valid. This is mostly caused by new capacitors reforming in the signal path. This goes for every new piece of audiogear. Only noticeable in a revealing system off course! This process is also called capacitor "burnin". Depending on the type, brand and capacitor series we are talking about weeks of burn in time, instead of hours. Also what i have experienced, is tightning up of the bass, opening up the midrange, so you get more of a "see trough" sound. I am a experienced audiotech, and have restored many pieces of audiogear. Often just after restoring, they sound pretty nasty for the first day. After approx a 100 hours of continous use, things get much better. You get a decent impression where you will end up soundwise. Only after weeks of use, you can hear the end result. Best regards, Nico den Haak.
I actually think burn in is a myth. Your brain just gets used to the sound - have you measured the amp before, and after 100 hours? The same thing has been argued with headphones - and Tyll Hertson, I think his name is, measured a pair of headphones and determined that there was a change, but so small, it couldn’t be heard by the human ear.
@@martyn_gI agree. If the entire burn in period was recorded with a mic, any noticeable change from 1st hour to 100th hour would show on the measurements. If it can be heard, it can be measured. What people "think", is not measurable.
YES indeed. My A-S1100 and AS-3200 both needed (2) things: 1. AT LEAST 1/2 hour warm up and 2. A couple of hundred hours of play time. BOTH required Treble Reduction when brand new (they don't now). I leave my Amps on 24/7 so wait time is no longer required.
I have owned my As1200 for over a year and yes it as sofened enough to notice. I love this amp.I matched it with Paradigm premier 800F love it as well.
Full disclosure, my first amplifier I ever had was a Pioneer SX-3600 integrated amp. Ever since I got back into high fidelity audio about 10 years ago I have been searching for that sound. The A-S1200 comes as close as anything. Had for about a month now, and it's broke in well. I have owned all types of amps: Class D, vintage, tube, and more. Revealing is a good way to describe the A-S1200. Just by listening you can tell it's got cojones. I remember as a child going in my local stereo shop, aptly named the Sound Shop, LOL. The high wattage amps like the Pioneers (and others) just had this sound where you knew by the sound that they had a lot in reserve, not sure really how to describe it. Some of you will know. Anyway the A-S1200 has got that sound. It's a keeper for sure. By the way the phono preamp section is very good and I have actually questioned whether or not I sound keep my separate phono preamps I have. I tried the MM, not MC yet. This is not an amp that someone should pull out of the box and review straight away. Although the initial sound is good, it will only get better, and needs really 100 hours before anyone gives a critical listen.
The yamaha amp and preamp I bought back in 1983 was black. I have the yamaha A-s1200 now. Black still looks great to me!! The sound is awesome. Sitting next to my silver technics 1200GR the contrast looks great.
I have owned the Yamaha as1200 for 2 weeks now & allowed for burn in ( over 100 hours) . It sounds excellent. My previous amp was a Denon pma 1510 which is now my home cinema amp.
I own AS 301( Their entry level). After around 3 moths I heard a significant difference of musicality. Less use of tone and loudness control. Harshness of sound was fading away. Month after a month it is getting better. Caps burning is something real as hell. I think before a review at least reviewer should try that product for 2 months. I learned a lot by watching your videos. Thanks Shawn!!
Have not listened to this amp but have experienced solid state amp break in several x , in fact many Techs , builders , custom shops speak of capacitor break in . Speaker break is also very real and be it amp or speakers after break in the sonic character has always become smoother .
Some people overstate its value in sound but some people deny it even exists which I believe is not true. Just because the speaker measures the same does not mean the quickness of the bass or the balance of the components dont change over time. Same for component level break in....the caps get older and the components change over time. My Yamaha has been on for 10+ years and I think it sounds better than ever.
Have a 2100...and I loved the sound right from the first time I heard it...Can listen for hours and I think the sound is now even better after three years of owning it. Goosebumps good...
@@spiritualarchitect4276 I don't use the headphone socket .....Only speakers...Mission SX4 /782... The bass and treble controls are rarely used but when they are...provide a gentle boost to either end of the frequency spectrum. Would imagine the same for headphones. Sorry I can't help with your question... If I use headphones it's only if I am away.. and then wireless AKGs linked to my phone ..
@@cliffhatt4737 Well thanks for responding. I have posted this same question over 30 times now and only a few people have responded and most of them do not use headphones! Well one guy said he did but he said you cannot hear the tone control changes (or Loudness on the 801) when using headphones. Is he pulling my leg? The only way for me to know is to keep asking.
@@spiritualarchitect4276 Just wired up the AKGs so I can answer your question and .. I couldn't sleep until I knew too!! The answer is yes. .. the headphone output on the AS2100.is affected by bass and treble....to a similar degree that it affects the speakers. ...
@@cliffhatt4737 Excellent! Someone had mentioned that on the 801 they do not affect the headphones and I thought that was odd. Thank you for your reply. You will sleep better from now on : )
Hearing is believing. During the first month with my Yamaha A-S1200 and appr. 100h, yes clarity, dynamics and details, which all were appreciated and I do found them in my system as an positive change in comparison to my previous amp Primare I21, which was not at all like that. Now is my second month I can confirm that the character of the Yamaha became more...refined and even mature sounding, as I can express my personal hearing experience. Last month I was satisfied and this month I am happy with my Yamaha A-S1200. You brought an exceptional approach towards reweaving!
Your Yamaha 1200, can you hear the bass and treble changes you make with the tone controls through the headphones? Does Loudness affect the headphones too?
Of course it's subjective! I've got an AS1100 it's amazing. I don't think anyone else does this level for this money. In fact it embarrassed arcam and other established lazy companies
Keep up the good work. I've been an audio "enthusiast" (addict?) for about 50 years now. So I've been through a lot of equipment. I would go so far as to say that EVERY component needs a good break-in/burn-in time. I think too that the higher the output power, the longer it takes to get that full musicality from a unit. My latest experience is the Crown XLS1002, which I got last summer. I bought it new. When I first hooked it up, I thought it was broken or defective! The highs were not there, the bass was flabby, the midrange ridiculously forward, compared to my old amp (SAE Mark IVb). So I left it turned on at low volume for a couple of days continuously. Night and day! It now sounds the way Crown designed it to sound: like a straight wire with gain. I read and enjoyed your review of the XLS1002; if you're going back and re-reviewing things, put that on your list. It really does sound way better after a long break-in.
I’ve owned the Yamaha A-S 1100 (almost the same thing) for a few years now. I can vouch for the change in voicing after burn in. It also has the best darn phono stage of any integrated amplifier. I listen to it everyday for several hours and never experience fatigue. I only run out of music I actually want to hear. 😂
I have a 500$ Yamaha avr and vinyl sounds so good with the turntable built in preamp, I can't even imagine how much better this upgrade would be...someone was saying his 1100 was better than the 1200 after comparing them...
while i do believe in some electronics going through some type of break-in period. I also think our brains adapt to certain sounds.. which overtime can change our impression and perhaps make us more tolerant towards certain sounds that we like/dis-like.
this was an important review. You confirm what so many people have been saying for a long time- and that is-give an amplifier some time to come into its own.
My Yamaha A-S3000 integrated amplifier started to sound more fluid and relaxed after 300 hours of use. It also sounds better when it has been on for more than an hour. Mids and highs with a valve touch and more holographic lows. I have been using this amplifier for 6 years, I have tried machines that double and triple their price and although they sound objectively better in one or more aspects than my Yamaha A-S3000 they do not manage to provide me with everything that this Japanese integrated is capable of offering me: musical enjoyment.
3 months ago i bought the Denon pma 1600ne and just last night i was noticing that a lot of the hardness,and for that matter, coldness, that i experienced when i first bought it, was now gone. I think that this is not just a Yamaha thing; it is more likely common to a lot of new class AB amplifiers.
I just got the yamaha A-S1200 and it's a very musical amp. It actually sound good with a box power cord. I put a shunyata delta v.2 rca interconnect between and 37 yr old yamaha tuner and this power amp and was very impressed with what I heard and that's without power conditioning and with the box power cord. The tuner has a built in power cord.
Someone in my region is selling his A-S2100 but it's in black. Even though I want this amp, I just can't do it. However, I would be in trouble if it was the silver one.
I have the A-S501 and the A-S1200 just got ordered and should be here Thursday. I did notice the same issue with the lower treble and midrange you spoke of. I'm not sure if it indeed went away over time or I just simply got use to the sound. The 501 is very impressive for it's price point and can't wait for my 1200 to show up. Amazon ran a sale on the black model for 2,204 USD so I grabbed one up and sold a bunch of stuff on eBay so I'll be able to pay my credit card in full before the due date LOL.
Hey man, I appreciate this video, I commented a little while ago on your live Q&A regarding it! I've had mine for a month or so, running with my Klipsch Heresy IVs. On first hooking it up I definitely remember it being transparent but if anything I thought the bass was pretty thin. Now I know Heresies do fast clean bass but it was lacking body and I had to use the bass control to compensate! I never personally noticed the harshness of the mid treble, to be fair the IVs are pretty treble forward to begin with and I was probably already used to it. I figured I'd set the tone controls back to center and keep listening. Over the past month I've been blown away with how the bass has gotten more full and rich and the depth, not width, of soundstage has grown tremendously. I have never owned a new amp out of the box and always thought break in, whether it being the machine or your brain changing was b.s. but for whatever reason it just keeps getting better and better. I'm not even sure if I'm at a hundred hours yet so I'm excited to hear it get better! By the way, I recall you saying you don't do much analog listening, I highly recommend the phono stage, it's excellent, has a tremendously low noise floor and it also just keeps getting better and better. Alright that's long enough!
how do you like the pairing with your Klipsch speakers? I was thinking of getting the IV's down the road. Right now I'm using some Wharfdale Linton's that sound pretty good with the 1200
@@johnfredmurray I personally love it, everything I said before but they are definitely not warm or rolled off, they're extremely technical and present a huge soundstage that seems to extend well past the speakers. According to those meters they use about a TENTH of a watt at normal listening volumes and VERY loud with peaks approaches less than ten. Suffice to say you'll never need more power. Just be prepared for the live sound and very fast and clean, not huge bass. Edit: the bass did fill out and become more present but you'll still never get fat subwoofer style bass
Hey Nick, good to read your experience with this amp. I have the 1100 and I found the bass is fast and accurate but a little thin. I’m running jbl stage A 170 tower speakers with a Rega turntable. I am contemplating getting a couple of REL subs to fill in the low end. I have noticed over time the bass has filled out a bit. Hopefully it will fatten up more over time.
I did not expect this change in sound, but most definitely experienced it with my new 2200 somewhere around 100 hours or so. I did like that "hard edge" when new, but the sound post-"softening" is still really, really great! I love this integrated!
I have the A-S3000 and noticed a lot of what you said... What I have concluded is that the yamaha is what it is, and everything else makes a difference. Let me explain-- I was playing around with my setup a bit, moved everything to a dedicated room, changed cables, changed speaker placement.. got everything dialed in... and realized what i've been missing all along! I wouldnt call it a 'break in'.. instead I would call it a magnifying glass... it will magnify the qualities of your entire chain. If you prefer warmth, feed it warm inputs and pair it with warm speakers... if you want detail that isnt fatiguing , use B&Ws with a tube preamp and warm cables. Thats the best i can describe it and can def see where you coming from and trying to say!
Thomas from Thomas & Stereo is my favourite reviewer because he tries really hard to dig up the uniqueness of a component, by taking it to all of his friends and their high end systems, getting their input, mulling over everything, and letting the component sink into his consciousness. Perhaps if you could do what you’ve done here regularly, ie revisiting components that hang around, this might give us out here in youtube land a similar further insight into hi-fi? I would appreciate it, anyway! And thanks for reading my long-winded comment!
Yes, I've noticed similar on my a-s1100. It took on a slightly less abrasive sound after around 100 hours of on time. I love it now, while I was initially uncertain.
My experience with Yamaha is They make very neutral sounding components: loudspeakers, amps and tuners. They manufacture musical instruments and studio monitor loudspeakers. Because most brands applied distortion by design: sugar coating, emphasized trebles, etc, chances are the match does not cut it. A good match for sure is the new NS3000 Yamaha loudspeaker.
I own one for two weeks now. At the beginning I felt that no matter how I was setting the tone knobs (bass/treble) The mid range sounded to high.... I even replaced the speakers wires thinking this is the problem. After few days I found the right position of the tone knobs(for me)... Today I was listening to lp and when I increased the volume the sound was perfect for me! Finely I was hearing the bass and treble as it should be! No more high mid range.... So maybe it takes time to adjust and find the right tone for you...or to get use to it....or maybe there is a Break In after all?
The Yamaha AS 1200 is a engineering marvel and very well built components should out last most folks. But to me the elephant in the room is it has very weak in bass category you have mate the perfect speaker selection and room to get decent bass. Its amazing to me that a vintage amp from the 70s has more bass these these expensive beasts.
@@sv1201 They all do. Don't know what he is on about. Comparing with 70's amp with a damping factor of probably 50. Bet he mistakes floppy uncontrolled bass for better.
Nice thing about the tone controls, is you don't have to suffer through the burn in period, if there is too much treble, you can take the bite off until it mellows out.
What people talk about here is not reflected in measurements, thus it can't be corrected by tweaking frequency response. That's what irks me, i have never heard those changes nor that "sound". I find the A-S 1200 to be nothing but neutral.
Interesting to hear your thoughts. Have owned the 1200 for about 2 months now and concur. I swear it is slightly smoother in the upper mid and lower highs (where music can sound "edgy") now than it was when it was new. The detail to the mid and highs and weight the amp brings to the low range is excellent. I do believe the unit's absolute loose and free sounding best occurs after it has been powered on for an hour or more. In basic terms, I can crank the sh%t outta this amp and does not fatigue my ears. Classic "Low Rider" by War played through this unit at full effort is a sonic experience to be sure, a favorite demo to impress my rock 'n Roll buddies. Everyday listening at non wall rattling levels is a pleasure as well. I really like the substantial build, feel and aesthetic and am very pleased with my 1200.
Your Yamaha 1200, can you hear the bass and treble changes you make with the tone controls through the headphones? Does Loudness affect the headphones too?
Capacitors take a month to charge, discharge, charge discharge to really break in. Once the power delivery inside the thing is set it will sweeten up. Other parts from resisters and transistors and even internal wiring to get used to working together have less of an effect. It is mostly getting the power sorted from the capacitors. If you upgrade power chords and a better power strip you might like it even more. Try a Shunyata power strip and a venom cable.
Your view is 100% and can say this because I own this Amp. for about 9 months now. This does get a little bit better after break-in of Capacitors. Build quality is unsurpassed, you should have took lid off when doing the video. It is very Bright (I Like Treble, but on this it is turned almost off, 9 o clock position) and Treble is still quite high, it does not candy coat anything, what was recorded is what you get and let me say late 70's to early 80's Rock does not sound good on this Amp. Luckily Jazz is my thing and most Jazz (Pat Metheny, Miles Davis, Ramsey Lewis) sounds pretty Good.
I was looking forward to hearing your thoughts on revisting the 1200. I couldn't agree more. I've had it for almost over a month and have noticed a bit of difference in the sonics. Less harsh as you've stated and more musical to my ears anyways. It's never a dull listening experience. I'm sure I'm going to need a bit more mileage for things to break in. Thanks Sean! Oh, and the build quality is top notch. It reminds me of my Sansui 9500 overbuilt
Your Yamaha 1200, can you hear the bass and treble changes you make with the tone controls through the headphones? Does Loudness affect the headphones too?
300 hours sounds very reasonable for an integrated amp like the A-S1200. Hell, it took 500 HOURS to break in my Audience adeptResponse aR2p-T4 Power Conditioner! The good thing is that Audience states up front that it takes that long to break in. I'd think it would be in Yamaha's best interest to do the same.
Well, I am an old guy. I bought a Yamaha str2020 (yes...prescient now for the year) in 1978. My Bryston and Marantz'purchased later have bitten the dust long ago .The Yam still works, ! Build quality or what...and although the sound was not as dynamic as the Bryston it did seem to get better with age. Great MM and MC phono stages. Power meters are fun. Variable loudness is even better for low level listening with 1978 Rogers Ls35As. Sweet. KEF 105s not as much with the Yam. . Great older speakers with the cube though . This got me going. I have lots of systems in several houses. My more modern stuff include Elac Uni-fi (good but over hyped) SVS towers . (very capable but not the KEFs imaging and Rogers like midrange despite better bass) and Klipsh towers with a sub (rock hard, loud and steady -incredibly dynamic). Sean, even though I am also old school and believe speakers have more impact than reasonably good electronics on sound , you should test the Outlaw receiver. As close as possible to a new Yam crossed with a Bryston. I now have two.Very reasonable and versatile and powerful.
I always appreciate your honest reviews, I especially always enjoy the sound break down of treble, midrange and bass. Its helped me to mix and match components in my system. I've noticed alot of reviewers are afraid to touch that part of a review. Thanks again.
Would you have any suggestions on replacing capacitors over time? I have noticed that it doesn't appear to be as "Dynamic" as when I first got it (although it is smoother)
Of all the companies building audio components, Yamaha has been creating fine musical instruments, since 1887. They listen to artists like Emanuel Axe performing on a Yamaha Concert Grand in their own designed concert halls so I think they know a thing or two about making electronics get out of the way of music making. I also agree that there is no right or wrong here in what sounds good to you. Also, being around this hobby for decades I personally now find that the Japanese gear, the highend is as good or better than any gear out there. When I look at the design, build quality, and sonics of Yamaha, Luxman, Esoteric Audio(sweet!), Accuphase, etc., I just don't see a wrong choice here and a waste of time figuring out which is better, best. If another person thinks something other than what I like is the better choice (for them), fine. Great. I won't argue the point. Smart review and write up.
Hey Sean, don't know if you'll see this but here goes anyway. While I have heard many audio products change their sound signature a bit with playing time on them, call it burn in, break in or whatever you like, I have never gone from disliking a product to thinking, wow, this is awesome now that it has some hours on it. So I would never buy something I was initially disappointed with knowing that while it might get better, it will never truly satisfy. I support everyone buying what they like and dealing with it how they see fit but I don't understand the notion of keeping something you just don't like much out of the box and then hoping that three months later it will have changed so much that now it's your favorite item in the audio world. Audio equipment burns in, yes, but it doesn't usually go from caterpillar to butterfly. Do you have any equipment that you just didn't jive with initially that genuinely changed so much through break in alone that you now love?
I just bought a pair Dynaudio evoke 20i’s. When I first put power to them they sounded good at low volume, but the more I increased the volume, the tweeters sounded terrible, I would describe it as a very unpleasant ‘’Scratchy” sound. I thought I had received a defective pair. So I continued to listen to them and occasionally turning it up to see if the issue was still there. I was bummed to say the least , I went so far as to contact the retailer ti check on their return policy. I was told they would generate a return postage sticker to be sent to my email. About this time I started to research audio forums who were talking about ‘’break in time’’, as much as 200-400 hours ! I was shocked, this was the first I heard of this. When I checked the owners manual it states that they take “several weeks “ to sound their best. But I did notice that the ‘’scratchy’’. Sound was marginally reduced, was it just my imagination? But the longer I played them the better they sounded, by now I had increased the volume significantly to where I am now reconsidering returning them, time will tell but I am optimistic.
Found an AS-2200 returned item for $2800. I’m still waiting on the Model 5 so I haven’t hooked it up to speakers. But I’ve been using the headphones jack and yep. I hated it when I first used it. But after a month of using it there was a moment when the sound clicked and sounds great now. I can’t wait to hear what it does with the KLH model 5.
My God. That slight over emphasis in the mid range could be anything. I bet that's system matching. I remember a pair of Kef 104.2 I had in the nineties. They kept sounding very agressive even after 200 hours. My system was a Conrad-Johnson preamp with a Sonic Frontiers power amp (all tube). First thing I switched cables. I went from Kimber to Cardas and the sound overall improved a lot. With tubes, cables have much influence in the performance due to high source impedance of the components. Then I purchased on eBay a Tandberg 3018A preamp (used for 600 $). A friend of mine had a Yamaha M4 power amp (120 watts/ch). How did I get to search for those two brands/items is a long story, but the match was made in haven: lush, rich, very musical. The KEF started to sound soft and sweet. We tried with the Yamaha preamp of my friend and no contest. The Tandberg preamp (a class A, discrete, zero feedback, high gain, with an output impedance of 30 ohms) was the answer and a better match for the Yamaha power amp. The Cardas cables are the most musical of all. The phono stage of the 3018A (82 db of gain) makes an Ortofon SPU with an output of 0.18 mV and internal coil resistance of 2 ohms sound dynamic, musical and loud. Yamaha makes very musical, natural sounding amps. In the case of the A-S1200 of your review I would test it with truly neutral speakers like ATC. The SCM 40 seems a good match. The low sensitivity is not a big deal. I can not believe that Yamaha sounds aggressive. Use Cardas, Chord or VanderHul cables. Make sure the source components have a low source impedance. I am thinking of buying one for my Proac Response D2 (2nd. system) My main speakers are the ATC scm20sl Pro with the ATC P2 power amp. All driven by my glorious Tandberg 3018A preamp.
+1 bro. I mostly get time to listen to music late at night and have to keep the volume down. The variable Loudness control keeps the sound balanced or else music is just not enjoyable. Purists might hate it, but it is practical. Not everyone gets to crank it up past 10 on the dial.
I bought this Yamaha A-S1200 and immediately found it magnificent, from the first notes I played it. Maybe the sensitivity of my 105db speakers had something to do with it ! 😉
I love my A-S1200. Extremely well built with great sound, I bought it to build a long term relationship with the amp, I would like to say "It's been my go to amp the last few years." I am a person that likes change, so it would be interesting to see if I can do that,
Thanks for updating your thoughts on the AS1200. I agree with your observations. My unit changed dramatically after about 500+ hours. BUT... the point where the amp really became special was when I changed the RCA cables from a silver clad to a pure Copper only RCA cable from DAC. The silver clad cables tend to push the mids & highs up
@@marcfoss7687 Yes - for interconnects Audioquest Red River XLR and for speaker cables Atlas Hyper 3.5. My amplifier is a Cambridge Audio Azur - my CD player a Yamaha CD S2100 (which also seems to have a similar break in, just like the amp in the video) - and my loudspeakers are 16 years old Revel perfoma M20s. - for me it is important that I can still listen to all of my collection, of which most is rock and metal, that is often not very well recorded. The full copper makes everything a lot more pleasant to listen to - but I must say that this is purely personal.
@@alphaniner3770 Thanks!...I've been considering the Kimber Kable Silver Streak XLR interconnects which are a mix of silver and copper, but I'll take a look at their all copper interconnects. Makes sense that they might tone down a tad the brightness and work better with the Yam A-S range. I have the CA Azur CD Player and Streamer, very pleased with both of them. Was thinking about going for the Azur 851A integrated amp, but now seriously considering the A-S1200 or A-S2200. Sounds like you have a good system.
@@marcfoss7687 In fact I was saving up for an amp in the price category of the Yamaha A-S2200 - and the Yamaha was also on my short list. The only problem was that it is too big for the place I would prefer to put it. But and then I discovered that all the caps of my old Rotel started leaking, and I decided to stop saving up and get a new amp straight away - and that is why I got the CA Azur 851A. This model will be replaced soon and it is offered at nice discounts. I am happy with this machine in my system. I would certainly consider a Yamaha - especially when you like to get stuff that lasts a long time (like I do).
Interesting - my AS3000 based system mellowed over a 6 month period. The sound just became more head turning. Something simple like a single note would feel deeper and more enveloping. As my system also included a Bluesound node 2i, and new power cable for the amp, both purchased at the same time as the amp, I wasn’t sure which component(s) caused it. Sounds like it was the AS3000.
Your Yamaha 3000, can you hear the bass and treble changes you make with the tone controls through the headphones? Does Loudness affect the headphones too?
@@VisciousHippo Thank you for your reply. The 3000 does not have a dedicated headphone amp in it, correct? Does it still sound great through headphones anyway? Would it make something like the Focal Stellia or Clear Mg sound worth the money?
It could be a atmospheric condition too, in the warmer months the atmosphere is heavier than during the cooler months, when music will sound louder and edgier, just food for thoughts.
I have the Yamaha as-801 and I will say it sounded a bit stiff when I first got it then I was advised to leave it ON for 48 hours and then I noticed that it started to sound WARMER and continues to sound warmer with time!
Break-in seems completely logical. The electronics have aged ever so slightly. The boards and connections have had exposure to heat and current. The capacitors are settling in. I think those things are completely audible considering the amplifier as a whole. Amps and speakers are in their most rigid state fresh off of the assembly line. Over time, they loosen up. Iwould attribute the change in the amplifier's sonic characteristics to the electrolytic capacitors settling in.
My 1100 took over a year to break in. Never underestimate how the tone and sound quality of equipment can change after break in. It can be profound. This is also why i only take reviews of integrated amps with a huge grain of salt.
I’ve had mine for about 8 months now averaging 6-8 hours a day and it definitely got more cohesive with less random harshness at some point. Though I can’t remember exactly how long it took, put in some time before you judge harshly as it’s a good all rounder for the money with a better than average (at the price point) phono stage. Ps. I have paired with wharfedale aura 2s
Great video Sean!! I enjoy all your videos, but i have been particularly interested in your reviews of the yamaha 1200.... (Seen it idk how many times...and now this one)...and your comparisons with the Marantz 8006 & model 30. Since you mentioned the yamaha a-s2200 Thomas has, I wonder how it compares with the 1200? But great reviews on all you do!!
I had to sell my a-s2100 because of low level listening issues.Low end dynamics and punch was disappearing and the sound was losing all the energy.But i still miss its beautiful mids and highs. I am very interested in these new models.I wonder if Yamaha fixed that low level listening problem then i will consider buying 1200 or 2200.
What about the idea of Sensory Adaptation? In Psychology, this refers to the reduction in sensitivity to a stimulus after prolonged exposure to it. Just a thought.
More Likely your ears and hearing are adjusting to the new sounds. Stereo Components and parts are manufactured to very tight tolerance especially when moving up to High End equipment! The sound would only change if the electronic components inside the product are drifting or changing in values.
My AS1100 sounded pretty bad outta the box. Shrill. Ice picky. Pissy bass. I notified Yamaha. They suggested leaving it on. I did. 100hrs or so in....heaven.
Tee Jay, I just upgraded my A-S801 to an A-S2200 and my 801 was feeling lonely so I just threw down and ordered the Bro 3! Can’t wait, I expect them to sound pretty good with my 801 as well. Thanks to your, Sean’s, Thomas, and Jays reviews I figured I can’t go wrong. Also, I got them in a new light oak finish with grey grille, checkout the new finish at Adoroma.
@@nathanjones4039 hell yeah ! I had the 801 as well make sure you try the bro3 on the 2200 bet you'll be shocked! Yeah in my Opion you got the best looking finish !
Tee-Jay The Stereo-Bargain-File yes, once I get them. That new light oak finish in the Bro 3’s is sort of so new that I won’t probably have either the stands or Bro 3’s until maybe 2nd week of October give/take. I’ll let you know what I think of them once I get them though. They’re the matching stands, glass base plate, fillable with sand, wire management, and come with spikes and discs for hardwood floors which I have, so pretty pumped that they’ll work out great.
You are correct. My older 80ish R9 is same way. You have a good ear. Mine has tone controls and I love my Yamaha. It's a beast. Would love to own the 1200 but out of my price range. Love ur videos man. Peace
Iv`e got 4 more months on my AS1200 than when I first posted. I am listening today. I realized this thing definitely sounds less harsh. But, the amp and the Martin Logan 60xt speakers were new. The speakers were only in use on another amp for a short while. So, is it one or both components breaking in? We know it`s both.
I own the A-S3200 and can say without reservation that the sound does in fact change over time. In my experience it seemed to change at ten hours. (The treble became less harsh) Again at around 30 hours, (the midrange blended better and became more even at upper and lower mids.)Then around 50 hours the bass really opened up and became both fuller and lower. I have a subwoofer hooked up to the pre-out and I had to turn it down slightly. (These sound changes are all with tone controls flat) I’m at around 80 hours now and I’ve noticed that the entire sound spectrum seems to have homogenized for a clearer more full sounding experience. I agree that when I first hooked everything up it sounded good but not what I wanted but now all I can say is this is one beautiful integrated amp that sounds absolutely amazing. I recommend this unit to anyone who wants a wonderful sounding integrated amp that’s a little warm/neutral and really has power beyond it’s rated 100 watts. But you really need to give it time to “form” in order to get your money’s worth.
Let me give you this crazy gem: I worked in a upscale hifi shop in the 90s. We had a BIG Classe stereo amp we were trying out. It sounded ... rough. Just not good. I opened the store about three months later and was stopped in my tracks. Firebird Suite had never sounded like this in this room. I turned it up some and went to prepping the store. When the next arriving salesman came in and went off about the front system. While we were freaking out that we both had noticed the same thing, the manager bust in all excited.... about "what change I had made in the system to so drastically improve it?" Break in is real. Very real on some components. HTH
I’ve only ever bought Yamaha gear, it’s taken 8 + years to get to here: 2x NS 901s, 2x NS 555s, with 2 amps, main being the AS 2200. Where do I go from here? Better amps?
It’s too bad you couldn’t try out the phono stage. I’ve got a similar style amp, the Denon pma a100 and matching CD player. About $3,000 used for 10 yr old equipment but like new. Listening to LP’s it’s no comparison to cds. CD’s sound flat and two dimensional on my system. I thought I’ll need a R2R dac at some point but I’m in no hurry. I’m old enough(58)to have many records still. The trouble is some new records sound like cds, not great. The cd might sound better. My turntable set up is a Technics 1500c with a Denon 301mk2 and a funk achromat. I enjoy all your videos very much. A true audiophile. The lack of edits is really impressive as well.
You know, I sort of understand the caveats, but let’s not get carried away. This video is about YOUR opinions. Simple. Someone, people, will always disagree.
I just got this amp and I'm trying out different speakers with it and I have a Cambridge Audio DAC Magic 200M for my digital sources, but I also have a real to real and a turntable. With some of my tape decks I use the BASS and TREBILE controls and I'm constantly adjusting them from FLAT for new digital sources to adding TREBILE and or BASS for some tapes. When adjusting the tone controls, I hear the tone defeat relay turning off and on a lot like 6 times or so a day depending how many times I adjust them. Is this OK adjusting these like this or is it going to wear out the TONE DEFEAT RELAYS? In the future I will be only using digital sources only so after about a year I will be all DIGITAL sources, so I won't ever need to use the BASS or TREBILE controls again.
Great relook at the Yamaha a-s1200 and really great to hear your subjective thoughts and feelings of the integrated amp. Intriguing. Camera angle was different, but think I like it when you're side by side to the Hifi gear. Question: How does this 1200 compare to the Yamaha A-S801 you reviewed last year? Is the higher cost of the 1200 better sound quality compared to the 801 or is it just more power, better build, and more functionality with the 1200? Again always love your honest reviews and thoughts on hifi gear.
Hi,i own one for a few months now and you are probably right.At first this amp deceived me and now i actually enjoy it.I dont think i grew in To the sound
I wonder how different sonically would be the AS2200 from the AS3200. I have a CXA61 paired with Klipsch Forte IV. I am looking to upgrade amp but not sure if the extra cash spent on the 3200 would be wise. Thanks!
Right on point about the tone @Zero Fidelity. I feel the same way about my a-s2100. Now that I heard the review of Thomas & stereo about a streamer that fixes right those frequencies I will give it a try, let's see if I can get a more laid back sound out of this beast. And me pairing it with a pair of Dali Rubicon2s, doesn't helping it any either. Although changing the mains with Audioquest Y3 helped my system to get more body, which created such a sound in which the rest of the frequencies came closer to that lower treble, upper mid range so nothing is sticking out as much as it used to. I am still trying to tame my system. On progress...
@@spiritualarchitect4276 yes, you hear a second of silence once you turn the dials as a sign that tone controls' circuitry is engaged and I heard the difference.
I think that it's awesome that you were open-minded enough to do that, let alone post a video on it. Maybe, where it's feasible, you can do a series called "After Some Hours" to contrast your "After the Hype" videos. Either way great work, and as always thanks for all you do. As for potential gear to review: NAD M33 or M28; Alta Audio Alyssa or Alec; Black Ice Glass FX Tube Dac DSD WI - FI; KEF LS50 META's; and lastly the A500/A700 Buchardt Audio.
My first high end set of speakers was a pair of Yamaha ns1000.. I loved the pronounced midrange and tweeters and always chasing that sound again... I might like this amp... just hard to choose a model, I bought a Cambridge audio dac and a yamaha as701 and I thought it sounded amazing, now I caught the bug and can't decide on a 1200 or 2200
I had a similar experience back in the early to mid 90s. I bought a beast of a Yamaha,dont remember the model. And at the same time bought Klipsch KG 5.5 floorstanders. At first way too bright and after a while it all toned back. I thought the speakers broke in but maybe it was a combination. I still miss that system
@@rotorfix not a troll, just bringing psychoacoustics into the discussion. Sean even suggests it could be this at the start of the video. Or ear wax. Both of which are likely to be the actual reason for the perceived change in sound anyone has with a new solid state amp they've purchased.
Hi,
What you are experiencing about softing up of high midrange, and less forward sound is valid. This is mostly caused by new capacitors reforming in the signal path. This goes for every new piece of audiogear. Only noticeable in a revealing system off course! This process is also called capacitor "burnin". Depending on the type, brand and capacitor series we are talking about weeks of burn in time, instead of hours. Also what i have experienced, is tightning up of the bass, opening up the midrange, so you get more of a "see trough" sound.
I am a experienced audiotech, and have restored many pieces of audiogear. Often just after restoring, they sound pretty nasty for the first day. After approx a 100 hours of continous use, things get much better. You get a decent impression where you will end up soundwise.
Only after weeks of use, you can hear the end result.
Best regards,
Nico den Haak.
'ould you recommend this for a hifi-newbie trying to get a Clear and Fun Piano - Jazz listening ?
I actually think burn in is a myth. Your brain just gets used to the sound - have you measured the amp before, and after 100 hours? The same thing has been argued with headphones - and Tyll Hertson, I think his name is, measured a pair of headphones and determined that there was a change, but so small, it couldn’t be heard by the human ear.
@@martyn_gI agree. If the entire burn in period was recorded with a mic, any noticeable change from 1st hour to 100th hour would show on the measurements. If it can be heard, it can be measured. What people "think", is not measurable.
YES indeed. My A-S1100 and AS-3200 both needed (2) things: 1. AT LEAST 1/2 hour warm up and 2. A couple of hundred hours of play time. BOTH required Treble Reduction when brand new (they don't now). I leave my Amps on 24/7 so wait time is no longer required.
My A-S2000 was a demonstration unit sold for half price. Never experienced your issue. They broke it in for me. Four years on I’m still very happy.
I have owned my As1200 for over a year and yes it as sofened enough to notice. I love this amp.I matched it with Paradigm premier 800F love it as well.
How does your Yamaha A-S1200 sound through headphones? Do you hear enough bass on older recordings?
Personal thoughts.. I have a A-S1100 and I haven't felt that kind of break-in thing.. I just loved it and I'm just loving it now..
I heard subtle changes with my As1100, suppose it felt more cohesive and I thought soundstage got better.
Your Yamaha 1100, can you hear the bass and treble changes you make with the tone controls through the headphones?
Full disclosure, my first amplifier I ever had was a Pioneer SX-3600 integrated amp. Ever since I got back into high fidelity audio about 10 years ago I have been searching for that sound. The A-S1200 comes as close as anything. Had for about a month now, and it's broke in well.
I have owned all types of amps: Class D, vintage, tube, and more. Revealing is a good way to describe the A-S1200. Just by listening you can tell it's got cojones. I remember as a child going in my local stereo shop, aptly named the Sound Shop, LOL. The high wattage amps like the Pioneers (and others) just had this sound where you knew by the sound that they had a lot in reserve, not sure really how to describe it. Some of you will know. Anyway the A-S1200 has got that sound. It's a keeper for sure.
By the way the phono preamp section is very good and I have actually questioned whether or not I sound keep my separate phono preamps I have. I tried the MM, not MC yet.
This is not an amp that someone should pull out of the box and review straight away. Although the initial sound is good, it will only get better, and needs really 100 hours before anyone gives a critical listen.
I agree. My 1200 is foreword on the upper mid/low highs. It`s still new now. Maybe 30 hrs or so. We`ll see if it mellows like wine later.
Just dont turn it off ever...lol Mine Yamaha has been on for over 10 years.
What speakers your running?
@@radd1198 Martin Logan 60XT
@@puncht37 Thanks a lot👍👍👍
The yamaha amp and preamp I bought back in 1983 was black. I have the yamaha A-s1200 now. Black still looks great to me!! The sound is awesome. Sitting next to my silver technics 1200GR the contrast looks great.
How does your Yamaha A-S1200 sound through headphones? Do you hear enough bass on older recordings?
I have owned the Yamaha as1200 for 2 weeks now & allowed for burn in ( over 100 hours) . It sounds excellent. My previous amp was a Denon pma 1510 which is now my home cinema amp.
And Which one do you like more? Denon or Yammie? And what speakers you use?
Thanks
@@tess6499 The Yamaha is better in clarity but the Denon has a meaty sound that is also attractive. I'm lucky to own both 👍
How does your Yamaha A-S1200 sound through headphones? Do you hear enough bass on older recordings?
I own AS 301( Their entry level). After around 3 moths I heard a significant difference of musicality. Less use of tone and loudness control. Harshness of sound was fading away. Month after a month it is getting better. Caps burning is something real as hell. I think before a review at least reviewer should try that product for 2 months. I learned a lot by watching your videos. Thanks Shawn!!
Once the capacitors have a proper break in, the AS1200 is magnificent & especially for the price.
How does your Yamaha A-S1200 sound through headphones? Do you hear enough bass on older recordings?
Have not listened to this amp but have experienced solid state amp break in several x , in fact many Techs , builders , custom shops speak of capacitor break in . Speaker break is also very real and be it amp or speakers after break in the sonic character has always become smoother .
Some people overstate its value in sound but some people deny it even exists which I believe is not true. Just because the speaker measures the same does not mean the quickness of the bass or the balance of the components dont change over time. Same for component level break in....the caps get older and the components change over time. My Yamaha has been on for 10+ years and I think it sounds better than ever.
Have a 2100...and I loved the sound right from the first time I heard it...Can listen for hours and I think the sound is now even better after three years of owning it. Goosebumps good...
Your Yamaha 2100, can you hear the bass and treble changes you make with the tone controls through the headphones?
@@spiritualarchitect4276 I don't use the headphone socket .....Only speakers...Mission SX4 /782... The bass and treble controls are rarely used but when they are...provide a gentle boost to either end of the frequency spectrum. Would imagine the same for headphones. Sorry I can't help with your question... If I use headphones it's only if I am away.. and then wireless AKGs linked to my phone ..
@@cliffhatt4737 Well thanks for responding. I have posted this same question over 30 times now and only a few people have responded and most of them do not use headphones! Well one guy said he did but he said you cannot hear the tone control changes (or Loudness on the 801) when using headphones. Is he pulling my leg? The only way for me to know is to keep asking.
@@spiritualarchitect4276 Just wired up the AKGs so I can answer your question and .. I couldn't sleep until I knew too!! The answer is yes. .. the headphone output on the AS2100.is affected by bass and treble....to a similar degree that it affects the speakers. ...
@@cliffhatt4737 Excellent! Someone had mentioned that on the 801 they do not affect the headphones and I thought that was odd. Thank you for your reply. You will sleep better from now on : )
Hearing is believing. During the first month with my Yamaha A-S1200 and appr. 100h, yes clarity, dynamics and details, which all were appreciated and I do found them in my system as an positive change in comparison to my previous amp Primare I21, which was not at all like that. Now is my second month I can confirm that the character of the Yamaha became more...refined and even mature sounding, as I can express my personal hearing experience. Last month I was satisfied and this month I am happy with my Yamaha A-S1200.
You brought an exceptional approach towards reweaving!
Your Yamaha 1200, can you hear the bass and treble changes you make with the tone controls through the headphones? Does Loudness affect the headphones too?
Of course it's subjective! I've got an AS1100 it's amazing. I don't think anyone else does this level for this money. In fact it embarrassed arcam and other established lazy companies
Your Yamaha 1100, can you hear the bass and treble changes you make with the tone controls through the headphones?
Keep up the good work. I've been an audio "enthusiast" (addict?) for about 50 years now. So I've been through a lot of equipment. I would go so far as to say that EVERY component needs a good break-in/burn-in time. I think too that the higher the output power, the longer it takes to get that full musicality from a unit. My latest experience is the Crown XLS1002, which I got last summer. I bought it new. When I first hooked it up, I thought it was broken or defective! The highs were not there, the bass was flabby, the midrange ridiculously forward, compared to my old amp (SAE Mark IVb). So I left it turned on at low volume for a couple of days continuously. Night and day! It now sounds the way Crown designed it to sound: like a straight wire with gain. I read and enjoyed your review of the XLS1002; if you're going back and re-reviewing things, put that on your list. It really does sound way better after a long break-in.
I’ve owned the Yamaha A-S 1100 (almost the same thing) for a few years now. I can vouch for the change in voicing after burn in. It also has the best darn phono stage of any integrated amplifier. I listen to it everyday for several hours and never experience fatigue. I only run out of music I actually want to hear. 😂
I have a 500$ Yamaha avr and vinyl sounds so good with the turntable built in preamp, I can't even imagine how much better this upgrade would be...someone was saying his 1100 was better than the 1200 after comparing them...
I really enjoy these after living with it videos and find them very helpful and informative. Thanks Sean
while i do believe in some electronics going through some type of break-in period. I also think our brains adapt to certain sounds.. which overtime can change our impression and perhaps make us more tolerant towards certain sounds that we like/dis-like.
this was an important review. You confirm what so many people have been saying for a long time- and that is-give an amplifier some time to come into its own.
My Yamaha A-S3000 integrated amplifier started to sound more fluid and relaxed after 300 hours of use. It also sounds better when it has been on for more than an hour. Mids and highs with a valve touch and more holographic lows. I have been using this amplifier for 6 years, I have tried machines that double and triple their price and although they sound objectively better in one or more aspects than my Yamaha A-S3000 they do not manage to provide me with everything that this Japanese integrated is capable of offering me: musical enjoyment.
I once heard that it's better to leave it on all the time.
Your Yamaha 3000, can you hear the bass and treble changes you make with the tone controls through the headphones?
3 months ago i bought the Denon pma 1600ne and just last night i was noticing that a lot of the hardness,and for that matter, coldness, that i experienced when i first bought it, was now gone. I think that this is not just a Yamaha thing; it is more likely common to a lot of new class AB amplifiers.
I just got the yamaha A-S1200 and it's a very musical amp. It actually sound good with a box power cord. I put a shunyata delta v.2 rca interconnect between and 37 yr old yamaha tuner and this power amp and was very impressed with what I heard and that's without power conditioning and with the box power cord. The tuner has a built in power cord.
Your Yamaha 1200, can you hear the bass and treble changes you make with the tone controls through the headphones?
It's so much more beautiful in silver.
Yeah - it has this vintage 70s-80s look, and these machines were mostly silver.
@@alphaniner3770 I know! In black, it looks like a '70s machine painted in '80s black.
Naaa
Someone in my region is selling his A-S2100 but it's in black. Even though I want this amp, I just can't do it. However, I would be in trouble if it was the silver one.
@@cremersalex curious how much were they asking for?
I have the A-S501 and the A-S1200 just got ordered and should be here Thursday. I did notice the same issue with the lower treble and midrange you spoke of. I'm not sure if it indeed went away over time or I just simply got use to the sound. The 501 is very impressive for it's price point and can't wait for my 1200 to show up. Amazon ran a sale on the black model for 2,204 USD so I grabbed one up and sold a bunch of stuff on eBay so I'll be able to pay my credit card in full before the due date LOL.
How does your Yamaha A-S1200 sound through headphones? Do you hear enough bass on older recordings?
Hey man, I appreciate this video, I commented a little while ago on your live Q&A regarding it! I've had mine for a month or so, running with my Klipsch Heresy IVs. On first hooking it up I definitely remember it being transparent but if anything I thought the bass was pretty thin. Now I know Heresies do fast clean bass but it was lacking body and I had to use the bass control to compensate! I never personally noticed the harshness of the mid treble, to be fair the IVs are pretty treble forward to begin with and I was probably already used to it. I figured I'd set the tone controls back to center and keep listening. Over the past month I've been blown away with how the bass has gotten more full and rich and the depth, not width, of soundstage has grown tremendously. I have never owned a new amp out of the box and always thought break in, whether it being the machine or your brain changing was b.s. but for whatever reason it just keeps getting better and better. I'm not even sure if I'm at a hundred hours yet so I'm excited to hear it get better! By the way, I recall you saying you don't do much analog listening, I highly recommend the phono stage, it's excellent, has a tremendously low noise floor and it also just keeps getting better and better. Alright that's long enough!
how do you like the pairing with your Klipsch speakers? I was thinking of getting the IV's down the road. Right now I'm using some Wharfdale Linton's that sound pretty good with the 1200
@@johnfredmurray I personally love it, everything I said before but they are definitely not warm or rolled off, they're extremely technical and present a huge soundstage that seems to extend well past the speakers. According to those meters they use about a TENTH of a watt at normal listening volumes and VERY loud with peaks approaches less than ten. Suffice to say you'll never need more power. Just be prepared for the live sound and very fast and clean, not huge bass. Edit: the bass did fill out and become more present but you'll still never get fat subwoofer style bass
Hey Nick, good to read your experience with this amp. I have the 1100 and I found the bass is fast and accurate but a little thin. I’m running jbl stage A 170 tower speakers with a Rega turntable. I am contemplating getting a couple of REL subs to fill in the low end. I have noticed over time the bass has filled out a bit. Hopefully it will fatten up more over time.
I did not expect this change in sound, but most definitely experienced it with my new 2200 somewhere around 100 hours or so. I did like that "hard edge" when new, but the sound post-"softening" is still really, really great! I love this integrated!
I have the A-S3000 and noticed a lot of what you said... What I have concluded is that the yamaha is what it is, and everything else makes a difference. Let me explain-- I was playing around with my setup a bit, moved everything to a dedicated room, changed cables, changed speaker placement.. got everything dialed in... and realized what i've been missing all along! I wouldnt call it a 'break in'.. instead I would call it a magnifying glass... it will magnify the qualities of your entire chain. If you prefer warmth, feed it warm inputs and pair it with warm speakers... if you want detail that isnt fatiguing , use B&Ws with a tube preamp and warm cables. Thats the best i can describe it and can def see where you coming from and trying to say!
Thomas from Thomas & Stereo is my favourite reviewer because he tries really hard to dig up the uniqueness of a component, by taking it to all of his friends and their high end systems, getting their input, mulling over everything, and letting the component sink into his consciousness. Perhaps if you could do what you’ve done here regularly, ie revisiting components that hang around, this might give us out here in youtube land a similar further insight into hi-fi? I would appreciate it, anyway! And thanks for reading my long-winded comment!
Dude this visual is much better. The unique placement of product could become a ZF signature along with the reviews ofc.
Yes, I've noticed similar on my a-s1100. It took on a slightly less abrasive sound after around 100 hours of on time. I love it now, while I was initially uncertain.
BMPK
No break in, you just got used to the sound
My experience with Yamaha is They make very neutral sounding components: loudspeakers, amps and tuners. They manufacture musical instruments and studio monitor loudspeakers. Because most brands applied distortion by design: sugar coating, emphasized trebles, etc, chances are the match does not cut it. A good match for sure is the new NS3000 Yamaha loudspeaker.
Whao!!! I think this is the first high end HiFi hardware review in 3D! 🙃
I own one for two weeks now.
At the beginning I felt that no matter how I was setting the tone knobs (bass/treble) The mid range sounded to high....
I even replaced the speakers wires thinking this is the problem.
After few days I found the right position of the tone knobs(for me)...
Today I was listening to lp and when I increased the volume the sound was perfect for me!
Finely I was hearing the bass and treble as it should be!
No more high mid range....
So maybe it takes time to adjust and find the right tone for you...or to get use to it....or maybe there is a Break In after all?
The Yamaha AS 1200 is a engineering marvel and very well built components should out last most folks. But to me the elephant in the room is it has very weak in bass category you have mate the perfect speaker selection and room to get decent bass. Its amazing to me that a vintage amp from the 70s has more bass these these expensive beasts.
Well, it has tone control for you to dial in a bit for your likings.
It has plenty of bass, at least more than 1100 had.
@@sv1201 They all do. Don't know what he is on about. Comparing with 70's amp with a damping factor of probably 50. Bet he mistakes floppy uncontrolled bass for better.
My friend now took 3200 after 1200 and also says - that 1200 was more bass.
@@genaishivatov1737 He's wrong as well then.
Nice thing about the tone controls, is you don't have to suffer through the burn in period, if there is too much treble, you can take the bite off until it mellows out.
jonuiuc1
Tone controls are not required, better recordings are
What people talk about here is not reflected in measurements, thus it can't be corrected by tweaking frequency response. That's what irks me, i have never heard those changes nor that "sound". I find the A-S 1200 to be nothing but neutral.
Interesting to hear your thoughts. Have owned the 1200 for about 2 months now and concur. I swear it is slightly smoother in the upper mid and lower highs (where music can sound "edgy") now than it was when it was new. The detail to the mid and highs and weight the amp brings to the low range is excellent. I do believe the unit's absolute loose and free sounding best occurs after it has been powered on for an hour or more.
In basic terms, I can crank the sh%t outta this amp and does not fatigue my ears. Classic "Low Rider" by War played through this unit at full effort is a sonic experience to be sure, a favorite demo to impress my rock 'n Roll buddies. Everyday listening at non wall rattling levels is a pleasure as well. I really like the substantial build, feel and aesthetic and am very pleased with my 1200.
Your Yamaha 1200, can you hear the bass and treble changes you make with the tone controls through the headphones? Does Loudness affect the headphones too?
My S2100 did soften up. But I loved it since day one.
You just grew closer. She's still the same inside.
How does your Yamaha A-S1200 sound through headphones? Do you hear enough bass on older recordings?
Capacitors take a month to charge, discharge, charge discharge to really break in. Once the power delivery inside the thing is set it will sweeten up. Other parts from resisters and transistors and even internal wiring to get used to working together have less of an effect. It is mostly getting the power sorted from the capacitors. If you upgrade power chords and a better power strip you might like it even more. Try a Shunyata power strip and a venom cable.
Your view is 100% and can say this because I own this Amp. for about 9 months now. This does get a little bit better after break-in of Capacitors. Build quality is unsurpassed, you should have took lid off when doing the video. It is very Bright (I Like Treble, but on this it is turned almost off, 9 o clock position) and Treble is still quite high, it does not candy coat anything, what was recorded is what you get and let me say late 70's to early 80's Rock does not sound good on this Amp. Luckily Jazz is my thing and most Jazz (Pat Metheny, Miles Davis, Ramsey Lewis) sounds pretty Good.
How does your Yamaha A-S1200 sound through headphones? Do you hear enough bass on older recordings?
I was looking forward to hearing your thoughts on revisting the 1200. I couldn't agree more. I've had it for almost over a month and have noticed a bit of difference in the sonics. Less harsh as you've stated and more musical to my ears anyways. It's never a dull listening experience. I'm sure I'm going to need a bit more mileage for things to break in. Thanks Sean! Oh, and the build quality is top notch. It reminds me of my Sansui 9500 overbuilt
Your Yamaha 1200, can you hear the bass and treble changes you make with the tone controls through the headphones? Does Loudness affect the headphones too?
300 hours sounds very reasonable for an integrated amp like the A-S1200. Hell, it took 500 HOURS to break in my Audience adeptResponse aR2p-T4 Power Conditioner! The good thing is that Audience states up front that it takes that long to break in. I'd think it would be in Yamaha's best interest to do the same.
Well, I am an old guy. I bought a Yamaha str2020 (yes...prescient now for the year) in 1978. My Bryston and Marantz'purchased later have bitten the dust long ago .The Yam still works, ! Build quality or what...and although the sound was not as dynamic as the Bryston it did seem to get better with age.
Great MM and MC phono stages.
Power meters are fun. Variable loudness is even better for low level listening with 1978 Rogers Ls35As. Sweet.
KEF 105s not as much with the Yam. . Great older speakers with the cube though .
This got me going.
I have lots of systems in several houses. My more modern stuff include Elac Uni-fi (good but over hyped) SVS towers . (very capable but not the KEFs imaging and Rogers like midrange despite better bass) and Klipsh towers with a sub (rock hard, loud and steady -incredibly dynamic).
Sean, even though I am also old school and believe speakers have more impact than reasonably good electronics on sound , you should test the Outlaw receiver. As close as possible to a new Yam crossed with a Bryston. I now have two.Very reasonable and versatile and powerful.
I always appreciate your honest reviews, I especially always enjoy the sound break down of treble, midrange and bass. Its helped me to mix and match components in my system. I've noticed alot of reviewers are afraid to touch that part of a review. Thanks again.
Yes that's signature sound of nichicon fg series capacitor they used you will experience increase in lower bass weight as time goes by
Would you have any suggestions on replacing capacitors over time? I have noticed that it doesn't appear to be as "Dynamic" as when I first got it (although it is smoother)
Of all the companies building audio components, Yamaha has been creating fine musical instruments, since 1887. They listen to artists like Emanuel Axe performing on a Yamaha Concert Grand in their own designed concert halls so I think they know a thing or two about making electronics get out of the way of music making. I also agree that there is no right or wrong here in what sounds good to you. Also, being around this hobby for decades I personally now find that the Japanese gear, the highend is as good or better than any gear out there. When I look at the design, build quality, and sonics of Yamaha, Luxman, Esoteric Audio(sweet!), Accuphase, etc., I just don't see a wrong choice here and a waste of time figuring out which is better, best. If another person thinks something other than what I like is the better choice (for them), fine. Great. I won't argue the point. Smart review and write up.
Hey Sean, don't know if you'll see this but here goes anyway.
While I have heard many audio products change their sound signature a bit with playing time on them, call it burn in, break in or whatever you like, I have never gone from disliking a product to thinking, wow, this is awesome now that it has some hours on it. So I would never buy something I was initially disappointed with knowing that while it might get better, it will never truly satisfy. I support everyone buying what they like and dealing with it how they see fit but I don't understand the notion of keeping something you just don't like much out of the box and then hoping that three months later it will have changed so much that now it's your favorite item in the audio world. Audio equipment burns in, yes, but it doesn't usually go from caterpillar to butterfly. Do you have any equipment that you just didn't jive with initially that genuinely changed so much through break in alone that you now love?
I just bought a pair Dynaudio evoke 20i’s. When I first put power to them they sounded good at low volume, but the more I increased the volume, the tweeters sounded terrible, I would describe it as a very unpleasant ‘’Scratchy” sound. I thought I had received a defective pair. So I continued to listen to them and occasionally turning it up to see if the issue was still there. I was bummed to say the least , I went so far as to contact the retailer ti check on their return policy. I was told they would generate a return postage sticker to be sent to my email. About this time I started to research audio forums who were talking about ‘’break in time’’, as much as 200-400 hours ! I was shocked, this was the first I heard of this. When I checked the owners manual it states that they take “several weeks “ to sound their best. But I did notice that the ‘’scratchy’’. Sound was marginally reduced, was it just my imagination? But the longer I played them the better they sounded, by now I had increased the volume significantly to where I am now reconsidering returning them, time will tell but I am optimistic.
My Yamaha a-s501 hasn’t changed sonically as far as I can tell. But then I’m pretty new to audiophilia.
Jeremy R
You are correct, no such thing as break in.
@@ralex3697 You sound like a broken record.
Found an AS-2200 returned item for $2800. I’m still waiting on the Model 5 so I haven’t hooked it up to speakers. But I’ve been using the headphones jack and yep. I hated it when I first used it. But after a month of using it there was a moment when the sound clicked and sounds great now. I can’t wait to hear what it does with the KLH model 5.
how did it go!!!
That’s a nice follow up, thanks Sean!
Prefer seeing the product first please continue
My God. That slight over emphasis in the mid range could be anything. I bet that's system matching. I remember a pair of Kef 104.2 I had in the nineties. They kept sounding very agressive even after 200 hours. My system was a Conrad-Johnson preamp with a Sonic Frontiers power amp (all tube). First thing I switched cables. I went from Kimber to Cardas and the sound overall improved a lot. With tubes, cables have much influence in the performance due to high source impedance of the components. Then I purchased on eBay a Tandberg 3018A preamp (used for 600 $). A friend of mine had a Yamaha M4 power amp (120 watts/ch). How did I get to search for those two brands/items is a long story, but the match was made in haven: lush, rich, very musical. The KEF started to sound soft and sweet. We tried with the Yamaha preamp of my friend and no contest. The Tandberg preamp (a class A, discrete, zero feedback, high gain, with an output impedance of 30 ohms) was the answer and a better match for the Yamaha power amp. The Cardas cables are the most musical of all. The phono stage of the 3018A (82 db of gain) makes an Ortofon SPU with an output of 0.18 mV and internal coil resistance of 2 ohms sound dynamic, musical and loud.
Yamaha makes very musical, natural sounding amps. In the case of the A-S1200 of your review I would test it with truly neutral speakers like ATC. The SCM 40 seems a good match. The low sensitivity is not a big deal. I can not believe that Yamaha sounds aggressive. Use Cardas, Chord or VanderHul cables. Make sure the source components have a low source impedance.
I am thinking of buying one for my Proac Response D2 (2nd. system) My main speakers are the ATC scm20sl Pro with the ATC P2 power amp. All driven by my glorious Tandberg 3018A preamp.
I miss the good ol Variable Loudness... All amplifiers should have it :)
I also think any integrated with a phono stage should also have a mono setting.
+1 bro. I mostly get time to listen to music late at night and have to keep the volume down. The variable Loudness control keeps the sound balanced or else music is just not enjoyable. Purists might hate it, but it is practical. Not everyone gets to crank it up past 10 on the dial.
brainache555
Just adds distortion, don’t like loudness
I can live w/o loudness on a good unit. Tell me about those w/o physical knobs for the tone :(
Fat Rat I don’t have bass & treble controls 😬
I bought this Yamaha A-S1200 and immediately found it magnificent, from the first notes I played it. Maybe the sensitivity of my 105db speakers had something to do with it ! 😉
I love my A-S1200.
Extremely well built with great sound, I bought it to build a long term relationship with the amp, I would like to say "It's been my go to amp the last few years."
I am a person that likes change, so it would be interesting to see if I can do that,
How does your Yamaha A-S1200 sound through headphones? Do you hear enough bass on older recordings?
Thanks for updating your thoughts on the AS1200. I agree with your observations. My unit changed dramatically after about 500+ hours. BUT... the point where the amp really became special was when I changed the RCA cables from a silver clad to a pure Copper only RCA cable from DAC. The silver clad cables tend to push the mids & highs up
Yes, I changed from silver plated copper to full copper interconnects and loudspeaker cables too - that worked very well.
Interesting point...can I ask what copper interconnects you are using?
@@marcfoss7687 Yes - for interconnects Audioquest Red River XLR and for speaker cables Atlas Hyper 3.5. My amplifier is a Cambridge Audio Azur - my CD player a Yamaha CD S2100 (which also seems to have a similar break in, just like the amp in the video) - and my loudspeakers are 16 years old Revel perfoma M20s.
- for me it is important that I can still listen to all of my collection, of which most is rock and metal, that is often not very well recorded. The full copper makes everything a lot more pleasant to listen to - but I must say that this is purely personal.
@@alphaniner3770 Thanks!...I've been considering the Kimber Kable Silver Streak XLR interconnects which are a mix of silver and copper, but I'll take a look at their all copper interconnects. Makes sense that they might tone down a tad the brightness and work better with the Yam A-S range. I have the CA Azur CD Player and Streamer, very pleased with both of them. Was thinking about going for the Azur 851A integrated amp, but now seriously considering the A-S1200 or A-S2200. Sounds like you have a good system.
@@marcfoss7687 In fact I was saving up for an amp in the price category of the Yamaha A-S2200 - and the Yamaha was also on my short list. The only problem was that it is too big for the place I would prefer to put it.
But and then I discovered that all the caps of my old Rotel started leaking, and I decided to stop saving up and get a new amp straight away - and that is why I got the CA Azur 851A. This model will be replaced soon and it is offered at nice discounts. I am happy with this machine in my system. I would certainly consider a Yamaha - especially when you like to get stuff that lasts a long time (like I do).
Interesting - my AS3000 based system mellowed over a 6 month period. The sound just became more head turning. Something simple like a single note would feel deeper and more enveloping. As my system also included a Bluesound node 2i, and new power cable for the amp, both purchased at the same time as the amp, I wasn’t sure which component(s) caused it. Sounds like it was the AS3000.
Your Yamaha 3000, can you hear the bass and treble changes you make with the tone controls through the headphones? Does Loudness affect the headphones too?
@@spiritualarchitect4276 yes and yes
@@VisciousHippo Thank you for your reply. The 3000 does not have a dedicated headphone amp in it, correct? Does it still sound great through headphones anyway? Would it make something like the Focal Stellia or Clear Mg sound worth the money?
It could be a atmospheric condition too, in the warmer months the atmosphere is heavier than during the cooler months, when music will sound louder and edgier, just food for thoughts.
This is true!!
I have the Yamaha as-801 and I will say it sounded a bit stiff when I first got it then I was advised to leave it ON for 48 hours and then I noticed that it started to sound WARMER and continues to sound warmer with time!
Into HiFi since 1980. Yamaha has ALWAYS sounded forward or bright in my experience. Always
I like the way you honestly balance the technical/build factors with the psychoacoustics background. Keep up the great work!
curious .. is it also made in Malaysia or Japan? I'm disappointed to see the 2200 is not made in Japan anymore.
Break-in seems completely logical. The electronics have aged ever so slightly. The boards and connections have had exposure to heat and current. The capacitors are settling in. I think those things are completely audible considering the amplifier as a whole. Amps and speakers are in their most rigid state fresh off of the assembly line. Over time, they loosen up. Iwould attribute the change in the amplifier's sonic characteristics to the electrolytic capacitors settling in.
Yes I have experience the same sound, love this yamaha A-S1200
Do you buy this gear from the manufacturer?
How is it for headphone amp? 50-600ohm headphones?
My 1100 took over a year to break in. Never underestimate how the tone and sound quality of equipment can change after break in. It can be profound. This is also why i only take reviews of integrated amps with a huge grain of salt.
I concur. My 1100 is about 7 months old and it has softened quite a bit.
I’ve had mine for about 8 months now averaging 6-8 hours a day and it definitely got more cohesive with less random harshness at some point. Though I can’t remember exactly how long it took, put in some time before you judge harshly as it’s a good all rounder for the money with a better than average (at the price point) phono stage. Ps. I have paired with wharfedale aura 2s
Great video Sean!! I enjoy all your videos, but i have been particularly interested in your reviews of the yamaha 1200.... (Seen it idk how many times...and now this one)...and your comparisons with the Marantz 8006 & model 30. Since you mentioned the yamaha a-s2200 Thomas has, I wonder how it compares with the 1200? But great reviews on all you do!!
I had to sell my a-s2100 because of low level listening issues.Low end dynamics and punch was disappearing and the sound was losing all the energy.But i still miss its beautiful mids and highs.
I am very interested in these new models.I wonder if Yamaha fixed that low level listening problem then i will consider buying 1200 or 2200.
I listen at low volumes so that interesting.
You'd be a lot happier with a SET for that type of listening.
What about the idea of Sensory Adaptation? In Psychology, this refers to the reduction in sensitivity to a stimulus after prolonged exposure to it. Just a thought.
Burn-in is a real thing, but we're not always patient enough with an amp to wait for it.
More Likely your ears and hearing are adjusting to the new sounds. Stereo Components and parts are manufactured to very tight tolerance especially when moving up to High End equipment! The sound would only change if the electronic components inside the product are drifting or changing in values.
My AS1100 sounded pretty bad outta the box. Shrill. Ice picky. Pissy bass. I notified Yamaha. They suggested leaving it on. I did. 100hrs or so in....heaven.
You nailed it Sean like always well thats what i got from me AS-1100 also , its a keeper for me its going no where !
Tee Jay, I just upgraded my A-S801 to an A-S2200 and my 801 was feeling lonely so I just threw down and ordered the Bro 3! Can’t wait, I expect them to sound pretty good with my 801 as well. Thanks to your, Sean’s, Thomas, and Jays reviews I figured I can’t go wrong. Also, I got them in a new light oak finish with grey grille, checkout the new finish at Adoroma.
@@nathanjones4039 hell yeah ! I had the 801 as well make sure you try the bro3 on the 2200 bet you'll be shocked! Yeah in my Opion you got the best looking finish !
Tee-Jay The Stereo-Bargain-File I also ordered the matching Triangle S04 stands in white!
@@nathanjones4039 will you let me know how you like the stands ?
Tee-Jay The Stereo-Bargain-File yes, once I get them. That new light oak finish in the Bro 3’s is sort of so new that I won’t probably have either the stands or Bro 3’s until maybe 2nd week of October give/take. I’ll let you know what I think of them once I get them though. They’re the matching stands, glass base plate, fillable with sand, wire management, and come with spikes and discs for hardwood floors which I have, so pretty pumped that they’ll work out great.
Great camera angle, def like this.
You are correct. My older 80ish R9 is same way. You have a good ear. Mine has tone controls and I love my Yamaha. It's a beast. Would love to own the 1200 but out of my price range. Love ur videos man. Peace
nice review,please review the recently released denon 110a amplifier
Iv`e got 4 more months on my AS1200 than when I first posted. I am listening today. I realized this thing definitely sounds less harsh. But, the amp and the Martin Logan 60xt speakers were new. The speakers were only in use on another amp for a short while. So, is it one or both components breaking in? We know it`s both.
MartinLogan officially recommends 72 hours burn-in for their speakers, so it's both for sure.
How does your Yamaha A-S1200 sound through headphones? Do you hear enough bass on older recordings?
Never used the headphones jack. Tinnitus already.@@spiritualarchitect4276
I own the A-S3200 and can say without reservation that the sound does in fact change over time. In my experience it seemed to change at ten hours. (The treble became less harsh) Again at around 30 hours, (the midrange blended better and became more even at upper and lower mids.)Then around 50 hours the bass really opened up and became both fuller and lower. I have a subwoofer hooked up to the pre-out and I had to turn it down slightly. (These sound changes are all with tone controls flat) I’m at around 80 hours now and I’ve noticed that the entire sound spectrum seems to have homogenized for a clearer more full sounding experience. I agree that when I first hooked everything up it sounded good but not what I wanted but now all I can say is this is one beautiful integrated amp that sounds absolutely amazing. I recommend this unit to anyone who wants a wonderful sounding integrated amp that’s a little warm/neutral and really has power beyond it’s rated 100 watts. But you really need to give it time to “form” in order to get your money’s worth.
@Zero Fidelity - Can you explain the difference between voicing and tone, Sean? Thanks!
The onkyo integra a 2001 weighs in at around 75 pounds. And will out perform that Yamaha will ease .
Let me give you this crazy gem: I worked in a upscale hifi shop in the 90s.
We had a BIG Classe stereo amp we were trying out. It sounded ... rough. Just not good.
I opened the store about three months later and was stopped in my tracks. Firebird Suite had never sounded like this in this room. I turned it up some and went to prepping the store. When the next arriving salesman came in and went off about the front system. While we were freaking out that we both had noticed the same thing, the manager bust in all excited.... about "what change I had made in the system to so drastically improve it?"
Break in is real. Very real on some components. HTH
I’ve only ever bought Yamaha gear, it’s taken 8 + years to get to here: 2x NS 901s, 2x NS 555s, with 2 amps, main being the AS 2200. Where do I go from here? Better amps?
This is a good format.
It’s too bad you couldn’t try out the phono stage. I’ve got a similar style amp, the Denon pma a100 and matching CD player. About $3,000 used for 10 yr old equipment but like new. Listening to LP’s it’s no comparison to cds. CD’s sound flat and two dimensional on my system. I thought I’ll need a R2R dac at some point but I’m in no hurry. I’m old enough(58)to have many records still. The trouble is some new records sound like cds, not great. The cd might sound better. My turntable set up is a Technics 1500c with a Denon 301mk2 and a funk achromat. I enjoy all your videos very much. A true audiophile. The lack of edits is really impressive as well.
You know, I sort of understand the caveats, but let’s not get carried away. This video is about YOUR opinions. Simple. Someone, people, will always disagree.
It should have the loudness control... Other that that it's great..!!! (Thank you for the second swing)
Loudness is very important..for those of us who listen low!!!
I just got this amp and I'm trying out different speakers with it and I have a Cambridge Audio DAC Magic 200M for my digital sources, but I also have a real to real and a turntable. With some of my tape decks I use the BASS and TREBILE controls and I'm constantly adjusting them from FLAT for new digital sources to adding TREBILE and or BASS for some tapes. When adjusting the tone controls, I hear the tone defeat relay turning off and on a lot like 6 times or so a day depending how many times I adjust them. Is this OK adjusting these like this or is it going to wear out the TONE DEFEAT RELAYS?
In the future I will be only using digital sources only so after about a year I will be all DIGITAL sources, so I won't ever need to use the BASS or TREBILE controls again.
Your fans understand your style. Don’t stress about it😊
Great relook at the Yamaha a-s1200 and really great to hear your subjective thoughts and feelings of the integrated amp. Intriguing. Camera angle was different, but think I like it when you're side by side to the Hifi gear.
Question: How does this 1200 compare to the Yamaha A-S801 you reviewed last year? Is the higher cost of the 1200 better sound quality compared to the 801 or is it just more power, better build, and more functionality with the 1200? Again always love your honest reviews and thoughts on hifi gear.
Was there another video about this last week? Or I had a dream about it?
yeah i am pretty sure there was another one haha
Very honest presentation!Nice and informative.
Hi,i own one for a few months now and you are probably right.At first this amp deceived me and now i actually enjoy it.I dont think i grew in To the sound
I wonder how different sonically would be the AS2200 from the AS3200. I have a CXA61 paired with Klipsch Forte IV. I am looking to upgrade amp but not sure if the extra cash spent on the 3200 would be wise. Thanks!
Right on point about the tone @Zero Fidelity. I feel the same way about my a-s2100. Now that I heard the review of Thomas & stereo about a streamer that fixes right those frequencies I will give it a try, let's see if I can get a more laid back sound out of this beast. And me pairing it with a pair of Dali Rubicon2s, doesn't helping it any either. Although changing the mains with Audioquest Y3 helped my system to get more body, which created such a sound in which the rest of the frequencies came closer to that lower treble, upper mid range so nothing is sticking out as much as it used to. I am still trying to tame my system. On progress...
Your Yamaha 2100, can you hear the bass and treble changes you make with the tone controls through the headphones?
@@spiritualarchitect4276 yes, you hear a second of silence once you turn the dials as a sign that tone controls' circuitry is engaged and I heard the difference.
@@jazzabana Excellent! Someone had mentioned that on the 801 they do not affect the headphones and I thought that was odd. Thank you for your reply.
I think that it's awesome that you were open-minded enough to do that, let alone post a video on it. Maybe, where it's feasible, you can do a series called "After Some Hours" to contrast your "After the Hype" videos. Either way great work, and as always thanks for all you do. As for potential gear to review: NAD M33 or M28; Alta Audio Alyssa or Alec; Black Ice Glass FX Tube Dac DSD WI - FI; KEF LS50 META's; and lastly the A500/A700 Buchardt Audio.
My first high end set of speakers was a pair of Yamaha ns1000.. I loved the pronounced midrange and tweeters and always chasing that sound again... I might like this amp... just hard to choose a model, I bought a Cambridge audio dac and a yamaha as701 and I thought it sounded amazing, now I caught the bug and can't decide on a 1200 or 2200
I had a similar experience back in the early to mid 90s. I bought a beast of a Yamaha,dont remember the model. And at the same time bought Klipsch KG 5.5 floorstanders. At first way too bright and after a while it all toned back. I thought the speakers broke in but maybe it was a combination. I still miss that system
Or option 3, the speakers and amp continued to make the same sound but your familiarity with it changed your perception of it.
Quite the appropriate name for a troll.
@@rotorfix not a troll, just bringing psychoacoustics into the discussion.
Sean even suggests it could be this at the start of the video. Or ear wax.
Both of which are likely to be the actual reason for the perceived change in sound anyone has with a new solid state amp they've purchased.
Did we lose the IOTAVX 7 channel amp review for some reason?