WH40k: ULTRAMARINES Tier List - Pariah Nexus - Competitive Matched Play
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- Опубліковано 29 сер 2024
- Brother Tobias is ranking every Space Marine unit for Ultramarines in this tier list.
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Really good video and summary of the strengths and weaknesses of all the different units. One gets the credible impression that you know what you're talking about. I also liked that you referenced not only Gladius and Vanguard but also the other detachments that are legit options. You do know your stuff about vanguard and gladius (and Anvil and even 1st company for that matter) but i missed the firestorm and stormlance references a little bit. I know they are weaker detachments but they do have merit here and there. For example the raw strengths of the firestorm up close is sometimes neglected.
And to push the Biologus even higher in your ranking: Also in Firestorm it is great because it can carry Forged in Battle, thus turning a miss (also in overwatch) to a 6, guaranteeing a meltawound when joined to eradicators. And they can even ride in a repulsor with him now. ;)
Oh and one more thing: The firestrikturret goes up to S11 in firestorm, which is an important breakpoint. So you can just strategic reserve a unit of two and afterwards advance 4-10" while still dropping 4 shots S11 twinlinked that are independant of oath and cannot be tied up in close combat. Pretty nifty I'd say.
Good stuff.
Thank you very much for the response and I'm glad you enjoyed my musings.
Your critical points are on the mark: I do not believe in Stormlance at all (I will go on record saying it is the worst detachment in the codex for Ultramarines specifically) and I have never played with a Firestorm myself. Not for a lack of faith than a lack of time and interest.
You are 100% on the money for the Servo turret. Assault is a very good rule for it (effectively increasing it's movement anywhere between 25-150%) and so is +1 Strength. And in addition, you have given me a reason to care about the Eradicator-bomb in Firestorm!
I love comments like these, please keep them going.
@@brothertobias I have one more question: Why do you rate Eradicators with Biologus Fire Discipline Combo so much higher than the Lieutenant with Hellblasters? Let's say you would be dropping them via Ventris.
I haven't done the math yet but i feel like the hellblasters with oath have similar output vs. Monsters/Vehicles while still being very dangerous to elite infantry. The hellblasters need Oath but are able to return fire while dying and have assault on their own thus staying a litle bit more mobile after their drop turn with a higher weapon range. Also they have a little bit more CC punch through the Lt. On the other hand they are also 50 pts more expensive.
@@Schmuvness Fire Discipline Eradicators most critically do not require Oath of Moment and they do significantly better against vehicles than wounding-on-5s-Hellblasters. Eradicators can easily split-fire into two T10 battle tanks and kill both. They are also excellent into half-damage pieces like C'tan (you half and then add the melta modifier. So a Melta rifle is basically D3+2, while a Hellblaster is always 1) and will do decent work into 3W elites at close range. In Ultramarines specifically, they are also your #1 unit for Marneus Calgar to join, while Hellblasters rank on the bottom 2.
Eradicators also bring a significant durability bump - while it's true that nothing in this game is truly hard to kill, there is a very significant bump in durability between a T4 2W Marine body and a T6 3W Gravis Marine. On top of doing all that, they don't loose part of their damage output every time they shoot to hazardous; Hellblasters with Fire Discipline become worse every turn you use them so after killing 1, 2 units your opponent can kind of just ignore them and it's not worth it for you to spend points to keep them in the Devastator Doctrine. Which the Eradicators also don't critically need.
Keep un mind the Fire Storm "Forged in Battle" would NOT trigger the leathals or overwatch as it is not an "unmodified 6"
@@bandit63delta That isn't correct, a substituted dice is counted as unmodified.
A modified 6 would be a 5 with a +1 to hit effect.
For a new 40k Ultramarines player, this is invaluable. Thank you very much. Excellent round up
Ultra marine V-tuber is insane
When sternguard veterans where meta I ran a brick of 10 with a captain and an apothecary, getting a model in the unit back was really good there
Tested it a bit on a 5 man squad but the meta around it hasnt been kind to them
Its such a shame that the apothecary can't join Bladeguard
sternguard were awesome in the index
I miss Sternguard being amazing. They were one of my favorite units in the game.
@@brothertobias Preach, It was quite a good feeling to have the veterans of the 1st company deliver the pain
For future videos you should consider saying what tier you are placing a unit in instead of saying "here". I had this video on the background playing while I was working and it wasn't possible to really see what tier things were placed in. Otherwise good video!
You make a very good point, I completely agree.
From a templar player whos looking for a change of pace this is awsome man keep it up ya earned a sub
Thank you brother tobias. This knowledge will help me in my warhammer tournament
Basically agree on Eradicators. Marines really rely on finding oath independent units which they do really well. I’d just reserve S for units which are good in every detachment but they are superfluous in iron storm and only mediocre in the viable divergent detachments (I know it’s only ultramarine list but I play BT as well)
Thank you very much.
I realized throughout doing the rankings that an S-tier unit needs to be irreplaceable. Eradicators are the best Fire Discipline and tank hunter unit, but you could in theory take Hellblasters or Gladiators for either role. They're worse, but you can do it.
The three datasheets in S tier are irreplaceable. Calgar is Calgar, the Biologis is the only way to get double-leaders into a gravis unit and Scouts have every mission playing rule in the game, on top of being the cheapest non-character unit.
Thanks for making this! Just curious: why did you put the Vindicator ahead of the Lancer?
The Lancer does more damage to armor on average, despite being more fragile than the Vindicator
The Lancer is more narrow, because it's purely a tankbuster. The Vindicator, thanks to the blast rule, also applies it's damage well against infantry (like Terminators).
@@brothertobias ah, that’s well-said. Never considered that option. Thank you!
heya, as I recently got guilliman, I want to try to fit him into any blueberry list I can, but after this tierlist, I keep getting more and more depressed when I look at how much he costs, and how I kind of don't know how to use him, and whenever he fails his 3+ get up roll, I feel like half of his datasheet has been lost. what do you think, james workshop would need to do to guilliman for him to be good, not just okay, and do you think, they will do it this edition?
great video, really helps me out figuring it out which plastic crack to buy next
Yeah, it is really unfortunate.
Guilliman is a lot better than he was a few months ago, but it's still hard to justify the 350.
I think he just needs to be cheaper. 350 is way to much, especially when you consider the Lion is 300 (and also not good enough). 280 would be a good start, maybe even 260.
If we don't want to change points but improve the rules, I would give Guilliman the 3+ invuln back.
@@brothertobias honestly, if he was 280 he can be non-optimal, like meta-wise, but then me as a casual won't feel bad trying to cram him in every list, one last thing do you think GW would do any kind of change to guilliman in 10th edition, or should I just wait 2 years for 11th?
Vindicator tank gun is str14, not str10!
Correct me if I am wrong, but Sternguards only have 2 shots, not 4? Although they can get 3 with rapid fire
Also, thanks for doing this. Helpful as a relatively new player.
I mean melee attacks! Sternguard are surprisingly punchy
My old Army list if i can remember off the top of my head was
1 chaplain in term armor
15man assault term squad 2 hammers 3 claws
these two would ride in a land raider crusader
2 10 man tac squads each with 1 flamer and 1 missile launcher Sgts would have 1 power wep and a Bolt pistol
Stern guard vet squad 5 man team
I would load them in drop pods and turn one was a land raider on the table. I feel like i am forgetting a few things. idk my friend would play tau and this was the only comp I could use that would at least get me in his face before his rail guns and pathfinders tore me apart. I think this was 6th edition rules. maybe 5th. idk it was a long time ago
That sounds like a lot of fun. Drop Pods are awesome, I hope they get some love from GW.
Thanks for the great video and breakdown. Any tips for a 1k list? I've got a tournament coming up at 1k and I'm playing gladius in codex space marines but not ultras for fluff reasons!
Thank you very much and gladly!
1000 points is a bit of a different beast, but I would recommend including a Fire Discipline carrier (a Lieutenant or Apothecary Biologis) with a fitting unit (like Hellblasters, Aggressors or Eradicators).
Second, I would run a Captain "The Honor Vehement" enhancement in a close combat unit, like Assault Intercessors or Bladeguard Veterans.
From there, include a few cheap units like Jump Pack Intercessors or Scouts. I wish you much success!
I forgot to mention this, but I am making an UM Gladius video soon. Keep in eye on the channel!
@@brothertobias sounds brilliant
What do you think about the below for 1k. Played a lot of 1k & I've had some good success with most of these units.
Gladius
Captain (95 points)
• Warlord
• 1x Plasma pistol
1x Power fist
• Enhancement: The Honour Vehement
Assault Intercessor Squad (75 points)
Intercessor Squad (80 points)
X2 - Assault Intercessors with Jump Packs (80 points)
Predator Destructor (130 points)
Auto C / Las
Redemptor Dreadnought (210 points) Macro
Scout Squad (65 points)
Vindicator (175 points)
I like it, but I think Fire Discipline is way too strong for you not to run it. With this many vehicles and without Fire Discipline, you are better off in an Ironstorm.
@@brothertobias ok thanks for info! Played a lot of ironstorm, post nerfs Ive pivoted to Gladius more like many others. The advance and shoot/charge/fallback is strong even for vehicles I've found.
Understood on the fire discipline, unfortunately I'm not aggressor fan so it's Hellblasters or Sternguard!?..
Fellow 5th company enjoyer detected, obligatory I gotta sub
I'd disagree that drop pods are unplayable. In pariah nexus if you drop one inside a building with a payload of units you care about being aggressive with, the pod can keep scoring secondary for you turn after turn. It has OC and can shoot so is eligible to do actions, players overlook it because its a drop pod, its reasonably tough to boot for 70 points. This plus my assassin have scored more VP for me in GT's than any other units.
The issue with the drop pod is that your opponent can charge them and be safe from your shooting. It gets even worse if your opponent has fallback&charge or shoot
@@brothertobias We'll agree to disagree on the drop pod. The way I use it, for 70 points to get a unit delivery system that gives you board control and then has a turn or two of doing secondary scoring it's a brilliant option that draws your opponent away from other things on the table. I probably can't convince you, but if you get the chance to try it, have a go. You might be positively surprised!
It would have been great if the apothecary could join the company heroes unit! The old company command box explicitly included the old apothecary so it’s kinda dumb they don’t allow it now.
I completely agree. It would give me that 3rd, 4th edition command squad vibe.
Hey, appreciate the list but don't suppose you can list the tiers in writing rather than images? Helps when trying to reference, and means you can skip watching the whole video to get the information. Pictures aren't clear enough for newer players
I'd rate librarian above apothecary to join Hellblasters giving them 4+ invul makes it a tough dilemma for your opponent to shoot at them, they'll struggle to kill them and when they do they'll probably shoot back
The apothecary can still squad with a lieutenant which boosts the output of the unit adding lethals etc. that is probably the only valid reason he’s higher than the librarian.
@@Jason-wh7in good point. My gripe with the Librarian is that unless he revives 2 Hellblasters you don’t get your moneys worth. Apo: 50pts, HB: 23pts/model
While there are some errors, I always enjoy good unit analysis for SM. Thank you for the video!
Please tell me any errors or misunderstandings you spot and perceive. 40k is a learning experience for all of us!
Sorry for taking my time, I just double checked before answering.
Chaplain with Jump pack does MWs every time he fights, not only after charge.
Brutalis is 50pts cheaper than Redemptor (its 160 vs. 210pts). I actually think that Brut is better now.
Firestrike Servo Turrets are hitting on 4+ while using Fire Overwatch.
@@vaclavzunt6835 I appreciate it!
@@brothertobias No problem! 🙂
Make sure you say the tier not just "putting him here" lots of people listen to long form videos when doing other things
This critique has been brought up twice now and you are completely right. I will do a better job for the audio-only viewers with the next video like this.
Where is the Ballistus? Did I miss it?
Around here! 1:56:00
Do you have some tournament results to back up your opinions? Like something that gives you ethos?
I attend one RTT level event per month and have been at three GT or Major sized events this year.
My biggest 10th edition accomplishment I can point you towards, was going 4-2 at the Firebug Open, placing 45/156 in addition and also winning "Best in Faction: Ultramarines" for that event.