Here's some more: 1. The Verse in Rain that comes right after the first chorus (It's that chemical cut) sounds eerily similar to Dark Signs (again), in that it is a very similar rhythm and melody to the backing vocals that are heard throughout the choruses in the track. (I might break and bend to my basic need to be loved and close to somebody) 2. The drum parts in TNDNBTG and Euclid when all the instruments kick in (The night comes down like heaven/The night belongs to you) are the exact same, with the same offbeat cymbal hits. 3. The choruses of Drag me Under and The Summoning are similar sounding, with the word "again" being sung with the exact same melody. (Drag me under again/Raise me up again) 4. Not only do Euclid and TNDNBTG share the same acapella part (The whites of your eyes), if you listen closely to the piano part in the outro of Euclid, it is the same or very similar to the piano in the latter. 5. Before the outro breakdown in Take me back to Eden (the track), lyrics from Chokehold's intro can be heard in the background. 6. In the song when the bough breaks, you can faintly hear the creaking of a chair that somehow made it onto the track, at about 50 seconds in.
I don't wanna be that guy who shows up just to disagree, but I definitely raised some eyebrows throughout this video, and had to see for myself. So here I go with a bit of debunking (and also some adding-on so I'm not just a naysayer lmao sorry ig): #2. Not here to be like "nooo they did it on purpose" but no, there is no timing issue in Thread The Needle. I admire your confidence in your observation, but the fact you're condescending about it is just a tad annoying. There's literally 0 timing issues whatsoever. How do I know? I put the song into my DAW, figured out the tempo (140bpm) and boom. Everything lines up perfectly. The part where you think the piano doesn't line up, it's actually just a weird off-beat rhythm that sounds like an on-beat one simply because there's no other arrangement element keeping the 1-2-3-4 1-2-3-4 groove, like in the pre-chorus, and second verse second half. The absence of said element makes your brain think that the F# to C# chord jump before each "1" is on the grid, or on the beats, if you get me, when in reality they're on the second 8th note of each beat, which feels weird without a groove. I know Dunning-Kruger is popular in the Sleep Token community, but come on my man. This one is not the hardest to research. #4. I tested this, and you may have a point, but I'm not convinced the video was made FOR Nazareth and then used for Jaws instead, but rather I think the 2 songs are connected (we know this anyway) and they wanted to play off the structure of Nazareth with the video for Jaws. The video clip changes really don't line up with Nazareth as they're pretty randomly placed and not in time at all. The thing that lines up is the symbolism, but the symbolism is pretty consistent across the first 2 EPs, so I don't see this as a big "get got" moment. I think it was more so inspired than repurposed. #5. Again, the timing issue you speak of isn't there. I actually started producing a cover of The Night a few months back, so I just opened up that project and the original track is there for reference; it's fully consistent to the grid. At the bridge, if I have the metronome switched on, it's still fully consistent, but the vocals are very slightly late to the clicks, but HOW late each line is, is very much consistent. That means? It was most likely purposeful. What I think is happening is that Vessel most likely wanted the entire song to snap to the grid, and didn't want to automate the tempo, but still wanted to make the bridge feel slower, but if he had sung 100% on the grid, the spaces between each line of the choir vocal would've felt too long. And I know this because I tried time-aligning and speeding up the sections individually so that it's 100% consistent to the metronome - it's too fast and spaced out. As for the "he gets to the second line a bit too soon", well, he doesn't. The beginning of each line is actually perfectly in time with the metronome. It's throughout the lines that he slows down a bit, which definitely sounds like manufactured pace change. So yeah, this time "they did do it on purpose!" I'm confident. #7. Not gonna lie, I'm almost certain the majority (50%+) of Sleep Token songs follow incredibly similar and often identical song structures. I think this is pretty noticeable. #8. In terms of lore, High Water and Chokehold are what respectively fade into one another tbh. Missing Limbs is more "noise" outro, Chokehold isn't... really noise. There's actual rhythm and cadence in it, as well as a droning melody that it starts off with. Creatively it might be connected, and what you're saying about picking up where they left off actually lines up in that department, but not sonically, if you listen to Missing Limbs and then Chokehold right after. It doesn't transition very well. #9. They actually have done this in a couple other songs, too. II has a knack for progressive drumming and you'll also hear this weird pretend time-signature in Say That You Will, when the drums and guitars come in. It sounds like a really weird stretched out, slow 3/4 when it's really just following the same tempo and 4/4 signature as the rest of the song. #10. If this is a joke, I've been got. I'm a fool. But in case it's not, well, here I am. Nah bro. Absolutely no resemblance, whatsoever. #12. I think that background vocal bit is objectively the same type of shenanigans he's doing in Dark Signs, I don't think it's subjective tbh. He's doing the same high-falsetto (maybe mixed voice?) vocal run glissando thingy that goes really high up and then descends back down. #14. I think it's more than likely just a texture addition to make the soundscape more saturated without adding too many elements or breaking its simplicity. The setting of where it may have been recorded is up to debate, but I think it's probably some event or state of affairs that has something to do with the subject matter of the song, which from my observation is Alchemy of oneself with the concept of the Anima and other psychological archetypes, becoming whole, individuation, in the same sort of realm as Alkaline. What that entails is up to interpretation, but it could be a science lab in a hospital or something, judging by some of the little clinking sounds throughout the speech that are reminiscent of science class in high school to me. It could be anything along those lines, really. #15. That wasn't a slide, that was once again Vessel and his extremely high mixed-voice thingy he does in the background. It's just so perfectly pitched that it sounds chromatically perfect like a guitar, but it might just have a slow autotune on there, or pitch correction.
ok so i literally found out how old ves is. if you wanna know he’s 29, ik his bday by the leak and accidentally, but i won’t say bc i don’t wanna show some stuff u might not wanna see.
I always felt like STs work to this point was a whole piece and not 3 different records + the earlier little ones. Like they told us one story, most likely a love story, in different stages. In some songs you hear new love, can feel the beating heart of romance in the melodies. Later you can feel how toxic the relationship was and finally, in TMBTE, the storyteller reflects on himself, goes through the pain. He admits to himself (and us) that nothing was black and white and he even wishes parts of the relationship back, even if he knows it was toxic. I think it all feels so connected because there are so many simultaneity in the songs (like the "dark signs" influence, some wording like "alarm bells in your eyes" and "Im done dancing to alarm bells" in different songs, and so on). Maybe this is what I hear because of my own history or maybe this is common sense in the ST community, I dont know. But I really like it, most songs get very close to me and I love the dramatic and all the feelings the music produces. And I am so tuned to hear some new stuff from them, from the "new era", I wonder if they start telling us an other story.
Also heard it might not be about love, but “sleep” could actually be a drug that keeps him (or a person) in a constant battle “she” would also be the drug
@@laurieward9718 Uuuh, now I have to listen to all the songs again with this new pov :D But is makes sense, I guess. In several ways. Being addicted to a drug is definitely toxic and a love/hate type of relationship. But being in love can feel the same way.
I loved your video. II is a very creative drummer. I love the percussion and polyrithms. Vess...whoaaa man !! Really a GENIUS. He has an amazing and soulful voice. He can sing almost everything being very versatile!! Also he is an amazing lyricist, a true poet. And...he plays piano, guitars Uff!! He is really one of the musical gems of our generation!! ❤❤😮
Maybe Dark Sings was just created from all other songs. That would be very much Sleep Token. I didn't realise that I need video like that, a lot of interesting things. The one thing that I noticed and I always love to hear while listening is that one line in The Summoning that is sang 3 times in 3 completely different styles (You've got my body, flesh and bones...). The same with last line in Take Me Back to Eden but it's 2 times.
I don't think on that it was a guitar slide on Aqua Regia, it sounds more like vessel singing. You might be able to tell that in other songs you can hear vocals like this, like during the ambiance in The Summoning, or in Ascensionism right before he sings "who made you like this".
Cara, sou brasileiro também (assumo que você é brasileiro) e fiquei espantado com esse vídeo! Entrei de cabeça no Sleep Token no fim do ano passado, já chorei, já estudei e já ouvi tudo que eu podia. Parabéns pelo comprometimento e pela análise. Como um "novo fã", eu às vezes acho que entendi as mensagens analíticas de todos esse contexto musical e acabo voltando atrás porque a comunidade tem ideias que, ao meu ver, são muito equivocadas e parecem surgir de um frenesi de ideias (do tipo: escutei uma vez, tive uma ideia e então É isso e ponto final). No vídeo de "Jaws" eu só pensava na história de "Nazareth" e acho que tem muitos simbolismos por aí. Adoraria assistir esses caras no Brasil. Baita! Obrigado pelo belo vídeo.
Some of that takes are a reach for me, sorry. Nazareth is a little shorter than Jaws so it doesn't make sense. It kinda fits but so does the Alice In Wonderland and Dark Side Of The Moon. The melodies / chords / notes being simillar and etc is true for sure because the albums are a trilogy and even lyricaly Vessel mentions other songs. 8:36 I think its Vessel vocals not a slide.
@@sweet_token i did too. In 80% times it goes well. But what about the other times it does not fit? It's like with Pink Floyd and Alice in Wonderland again
Find me on:
Instagram:
instagram.com/wardspeaksmusic/
TikTok:
www.tiktok.com/@wardspeaksmusic
Please subscribe
youtube.com/@WardSpeaksMusic
Here's some more:
1. The Verse in Rain that comes right after the first chorus (It's that chemical cut) sounds eerily similar to Dark Signs (again), in that it is a very similar rhythm and melody to the backing vocals that are heard throughout the choruses in the track. (I might break and bend to my basic need to be loved and close to somebody)
2. The drum parts in TNDNBTG and Euclid when all the instruments kick in (The night comes down like heaven/The night belongs to you) are the exact same, with the same offbeat cymbal hits.
3. The choruses of Drag me Under and The Summoning are similar sounding, with the word "again" being sung with the exact same melody. (Drag me under again/Raise me up again)
4. Not only do Euclid and TNDNBTG share the same acapella part (The whites of your eyes), if you listen closely to the piano part in the outro of Euclid, it is the same or very similar to the piano in the latter.
5. Before the outro breakdown in Take me back to Eden (the track), lyrics from Chokehold's intro can be heard in the background.
6. In the song when the bough breaks, you can faintly hear the creaking of a chair that somehow made it onto the track, at about 50 seconds in.
Thank you so much for these! I'm definitely gonna use them in a future vid.
Btw I think everyone knows about 4 and 5 by now.
@@WardSpeaksMusic you're welcome! Will definitely let you know if I find any more.
I don't wanna be that guy who shows up just to disagree, but I definitely raised some eyebrows throughout this video, and had to see for myself.
So here I go with a bit of debunking (and also some adding-on so I'm not just a naysayer lmao sorry ig):
#2.
Not here to be like "nooo they did it on purpose" but no, there is no timing issue in Thread The Needle. I admire your confidence in your observation, but the fact you're condescending about it is just a tad annoying. There's literally 0 timing issues whatsoever.
How do I know? I put the song into my DAW, figured out the tempo (140bpm) and boom. Everything lines up perfectly. The part where you think the piano doesn't line up, it's actually just a weird off-beat rhythm that sounds like an on-beat one simply because there's no other arrangement element keeping the 1-2-3-4 1-2-3-4 groove, like in the pre-chorus, and second verse second half. The absence of said element makes your brain think that the F# to C# chord jump before each "1" is on the grid, or on the beats, if you get me, when in reality they're on the second 8th note of each beat, which feels weird without a groove.
I know Dunning-Kruger is popular in the Sleep Token community, but come on my man. This one is not the hardest to research.
#4.
I tested this, and you may have a point, but I'm not convinced the video was made FOR Nazareth and then used for Jaws instead, but rather I think the 2 songs are connected (we know this anyway) and they wanted to play off the structure of Nazareth with the video for Jaws. The video clip changes really don't line up with Nazareth as they're pretty randomly placed and not in time at all. The thing that lines up is the symbolism, but the symbolism is pretty consistent across the first 2 EPs, so I don't see this as a big "get got" moment. I think it was more so inspired than repurposed.
#5.
Again, the timing issue you speak of isn't there. I actually started producing a cover of The Night a few months back, so I just opened up that project and the original track is there for reference; it's fully consistent to the grid. At the bridge, if I have the metronome switched on, it's still fully consistent, but the vocals are very slightly late to the clicks, but HOW late each line is, is very much consistent. That means? It was most likely purposeful.
What I think is happening is that Vessel most likely wanted the entire song to snap to the grid, and didn't want to automate the tempo, but still wanted to make the bridge feel slower, but if he had sung 100% on the grid, the spaces between each line of the choir vocal would've felt too long. And I know this because I tried time-aligning and speeding up the sections individually so that it's 100% consistent to the metronome - it's too fast and spaced out.
As for the "he gets to the second line a bit too soon", well, he doesn't. The beginning of each line is actually perfectly in time with the metronome. It's throughout the lines that he slows down a bit, which definitely sounds like manufactured pace change.
So yeah, this time "they did do it on purpose!" I'm confident.
#7.
Not gonna lie, I'm almost certain the majority (50%+) of Sleep Token songs follow incredibly similar and often identical song structures. I think this is pretty noticeable.
#8.
In terms of lore, High Water and Chokehold are what respectively fade into one another tbh. Missing Limbs is more "noise" outro, Chokehold isn't... really noise. There's actual rhythm and cadence in it, as well as a droning melody that it starts off with. Creatively it might be connected, and what you're saying about picking up where they left off actually lines up in that department, but not sonically, if you listen to Missing Limbs and then Chokehold right after. It doesn't transition very well.
#9.
They actually have done this in a couple other songs, too. II has a knack for progressive drumming and you'll also hear this weird pretend time-signature in Say That You Will, when the drums and guitars come in. It sounds like a really weird stretched out, slow 3/4 when it's really just following the same tempo and 4/4 signature as the rest of the song.
#10.
If this is a joke, I've been got. I'm a fool. But in case it's not, well, here I am. Nah bro. Absolutely no resemblance, whatsoever.
#12.
I think that background vocal bit is objectively the same type of shenanigans he's doing in Dark Signs, I don't think it's subjective tbh. He's doing the same high-falsetto (maybe mixed voice?) vocal run glissando thingy that goes really high up and then descends back down.
#14.
I think it's more than likely just a texture addition to make the soundscape more saturated without adding too many elements or breaking its simplicity. The setting of where it may have been recorded is up to debate, but I think it's probably some event or state of affairs that has something to do with the subject matter of the song, which from my observation is Alchemy of oneself with the concept of the Anima and other psychological archetypes, becoming whole, individuation, in the same sort of realm as Alkaline. What that entails is up to interpretation, but it could be a science lab in a hospital or something, judging by some of the little clinking sounds throughout the speech that are reminiscent of science class in high school to me. It could be anything along those lines, really.
#15.
That wasn't a slide, that was once again Vessel and his extremely high mixed-voice thingy he does in the background. It's just so perfectly pitched that it sounds chromatically perfect like a guitar, but it might just have a slow autotune on there, or pitch correction.
What influenced Sleep Token earlier: Slipknot
What influenced them later: Dark Signs 😂
ok so i literally found out how old ves is. if you wanna know he’s 29, ik his bday by the leak and accidentally, but i won’t say bc i don’t wanna show some stuff u might not wanna see.
I swear I hear that chatter towards the end of Alkaline as well but I can't make out ANY of it. Would love to know what that's about
I always felt like STs work to this point was a whole piece and not 3 different records + the earlier little ones. Like they told us one story, most likely a love story, in different stages. In some songs you hear new love, can feel the beating heart of romance in the melodies. Later you can feel how toxic the relationship was and finally, in TMBTE, the storyteller reflects on himself, goes through the pain. He admits to himself (and us) that nothing was black and white and he even wishes parts of the relationship back, even if he knows it was toxic.
I think it all feels so connected because there are so many simultaneity in the songs (like the "dark signs" influence, some wording like "alarm bells in your eyes" and "Im done dancing to alarm bells" in different songs, and so on).
Maybe this is what I hear because of my own history or maybe this is common sense in the ST community, I dont know. But I really like it, most songs get very close to me and I love the dramatic and all the feelings the music produces. And I am so tuned to hear some new stuff from them, from the "new era", I wonder if they start telling us an other story.
Also heard it might not be about love, but “sleep” could actually be a drug that keeps him (or a person) in a constant battle “she” would also be the drug
@@laurieward9718 Uuuh, now I have to listen to all the songs again with this new pov :D
But is makes sense, I guess. In several ways. Being addicted to a drug is definitely toxic and a love/hate type of relationship. But being in love can feel the same way.
I loved your video.
II is a very creative drummer. I love the percussion and polyrithms.
Vess...whoaaa man !!
Really a GENIUS. He has an amazing and soulful voice. He can sing almost everything being very versatile!!
Also he is an amazing lyricist, a true poet.
And...he plays piano, guitars
Uff!! He is really one of the musical gems of our generation!!
❤❤😮
Take Me Back to Eden might have the same dodeedoodeedoodeedoodee part The Offering has but i could be wrong. That part is in pentatonic scale.
Missing limbs is off time too but its due to Vessel playing and singing at the same time i guess
Maybe Dark Sings was just created from all other songs. That would be very much Sleep Token. I didn't realise that I need video like that, a lot of interesting things.
The one thing that I noticed and I always love to hear while listening is that one line in The Summoning that is sang 3 times in 3 completely different styles (You've got my body, flesh and bones...). The same with last line in Take Me Back to Eden but it's 2 times.
I don't think on that it was a guitar slide on Aqua Regia, it sounds more like vessel singing. You might be able to tell that in other songs you can hear vocals like this, like during the ambiance in The Summoning, or in Ascensionism right before he sings "who made you like this".
I totally hear Seth’s entrance music in the Summoning too
Cara, sou brasileiro também (assumo que você é brasileiro) e fiquei espantado com esse vídeo! Entrei de cabeça no Sleep Token no fim do ano passado, já chorei, já estudei e já ouvi tudo que eu podia. Parabéns pelo comprometimento e pela análise. Como um "novo fã", eu às vezes acho que entendi as mensagens analíticas de todos esse contexto musical e acabo voltando atrás porque a comunidade tem ideias que, ao meu ver, são muito equivocadas e parecem surgir de um frenesi de ideias (do tipo: escutei uma vez, tive uma ideia e então É isso e ponto final). No vídeo de "Jaws" eu só pensava na história de "Nazareth" e acho que tem muitos simbolismos por aí. Adoraria assistir esses caras no Brasil. Baita! Obrigado pelo belo vídeo.
Hi, Artur! Glad you're enjoying the music. I'm Lebanese by the way. Greetings!
Some of that takes are a reach for me, sorry. Nazareth is a little shorter than Jaws so it doesn't make sense. It kinda fits but so does the Alice In Wonderland and Dark Side Of The Moon. The melodies / chords / notes being simillar and etc is true for sure because the albums are a trilogy and even lyricaly Vessel mentions other songs. 8:36 I think its Vessel vocals not a slide.
i've overlayed it and Nazareth most definitely goes with that video before Jaws.
@@sweet_token i did too. In 80% times it goes well. But what about the other times it does not fit? It's like with Pink Floyd and Alice in Wonderland again
i've isolated the vocals on all 50 songs and 8:36 is definitely vessel
чувак, какое шикарное произношение! как ты научился так четко говорить на английском?)
Спасибо! В основном я самоучка. Я также очень внимательно слушал актеров в фильмах и копировал их произношение.
i also noticed weird timing on when the bough breaks
Which part?
@@WardSpeaksMusic right at the drop.. the vocals seem to be ever so slightly off
Don’t hear the similarities between Corey and Vessel.
Vessel reminds me more of Matt Bellamy of Muse
Me neither. Corey and Vessel are far apart in both tone and vocal tecniques.
There are some times I hear stonesour Cory in there. Very very small parts but it is there enough to have noted so not fully wrong there
‘Fall for Me’ has a small part that sounds similar to Corey Taylor from stone sours omega track I think
The apparition: 1:09 is that a distorted “Loaded dreams still leave me empty”? Repeated at 2:18…
@@Tedvardo777 Interesting... I thought it was some random sound only.
4 секунды ровно ушло на то чтоб понять откуда ты) ща глянем че там дальше😂
Hate to break it to you but trap beats are not played. They are programmed on a computer