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Old Eldelbrock Vic Jr vs New Edlelbrock Vic Jr Dyno Results
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- Опубліковано 16 вер 2023
- I share the dyno results from the latest dyno session where I compare the old vic jr with the new vic jr.
website: wengines.com
Awesome on the 16 to 18 year old thing!!
These are hands down some of the best comparison videos we could wish for , thanks Eric !
You're the only hot rod performance channel I've ever seen say we need to get kids involved. I'm older than you and have often wondeted why none of them seem to care. Thanks.
They are into modern muscle cars not our old stuff. Doesnt make sense to them plus its too expensive...oh and most cant use a screwdriver.
That discount for the youngster is awsome!! Keep up the great work!
Eric,
Can you do some type of clay mold of the old one and the new one? If so please do it before you modify the new one.
If everyone else is like me this series and that manifold is blowing our minds. I'm loving it!
I like this idea. Is it runner volume, shape, taper, cross section consistency, plenum volume? What are the physical differences?
Well I guess that everyone selling their old Victor Jr. just doubled their price.
Not if they don’t watch Eric!
Even if they watch upping price wouldn't make sense. This intake has work done.
@@jasonstormoenthe work didn’t do anything outside of +/- percentage average you’d see between two identical new manifolds.
Also he was comparing to before the work numbers.
@@Thumper68 I understand very well, but the new one he bought isn't port matched like the old one is.
Need another old version for comparison, there could be something about this manifold that makes it excell
Awesome information and explanation, guys, channel membership is the way to go, instant results, pictures, video as Eric is doing the testing. No one else on UA-cam is going to get you this kind of data....Channel membership is ABSOLUTELY worth the money!
The taller plenum requires more taper in the runners to match the same cylinder head port. Taper influences the wave tuning and that could be part of the difference you are seeing. It also looks like the runners might be shorter on the new Victor JR.
The tall intake looks like the Super Victor 340 intake.
Good for you! I'm 58, so I've been into "going fast" a long time. Learning what works back in the day was expensive. Giving back to the youth is awesome! Only draw back is..us old farts have to compete with them...lol
I have a old victor jr ive had for over 20 years i got it on my sbc 421
The results from the old victor Jr just make me wonder why and how it works better? I'm sure you are on the way to finding out. Thank You Sir. Maybe towards the end we'll find a new/old manifold that really works!!! Someone send Eric another ancient Vic JR out of the attic to play with!!! Lol. Seriously tho, it would be comical to find that Edelbrock went backwards, while figuring out what the engine wants, even if it doesn't LOOK cool
Please airflow test the two Victor Jr to each other. There must be a testable reason for the older manifold out performing the new one.
Good discount idea. I like it.
Very glad my port work was done to heads and to gasket match intake. He also said no real power from porting upper plenum on motown sbc single plane. Very exciting hearing all of what's coming, great job.
Lifetime of testing wow.
These are great videos ❤❤
When I port matched my vic jr to a 1205, I took out a huge amount of aluminum. That was just going to a 1205. A 1204 intake gasket was real close to the size of the factory ports in the vic jr.
When we put a 4500 adapter and Dominator on our Dart 230 headed 427 with a .725 lift cam the power stayed about the same but the TQ picked up nearly 18 ft lbs , 12.8-1 cr on E-85.
Thank you for helping the new gen into the game. Racing IC engines must continue or man kind has no purpose. We dont know what 7the port match is doing until you duplicate it exactly to the new intake. If it is the matching. Its amazing! But we need to know.
As someone else menioned. Please port mold both and compare cross sections inch by inch. Then match. Then re test the old and new again both matched.
Lol. I know I know. No way in the world thats happening. But sure would be interesting. ☺
Thanks for thinking about the young ones out there, really
Thank you for your knowledge and videos USA 🇺🇸 USA 🇺🇸
One test I have never seen done yet. Old style dual plane manifold such as Edelbrock RPM air gap, that has been fitted with injector bosses at the ports. Running on EFI. Then evaluate the mixture across each cylinder to check for lean/rick conditions with 8 o2 sensors. Of course the EFI will apply the same fuel to each cylinder but does the manifold supply the same air ?
I would like to see the old torker vs the torker2
Great to see the numbers
Just ordered this book! 👍👍👍
I’d like to see a comparison to the victor senior.
Good on you giving the discount to the young guns
Sucks for me. I just bought the new VJ last month. LoL
Oh well. I'm still sure it's doing fine on my setup. I'm nowhere near 600 HP so I'm sure the difference is negligible on a ~450 HP engine.
Question: why did Edelbrock sabotage their own product? Spend money on a new casting and develop a worse product? Doesn't edelbrock have their own dyno? Could air temps on different dyno days have had an effect? This is really hard to understand.
one of 2 reasons. 1, they dont really care. or 2 somewhere they found a way to save money with the new casting.
That is only on this particular engine. With a different head, cam, compression, cu. in. May favor an entirely different intake.
May have needed new molds so they made a few changes?
I have an old victor jr sitting in a box because I switched out to a Holley Strip Dominator. Makes me wonder but it's a Procharged 400.
The old victor jr has to helping with fuel atomization for some reason if it's not air flow
Has to be some good reason. For them to look that close yet the top of plenum mods and port matching DON'T make much difference has me boggled.
Even if you didnt have the crank trigger you could still put a timing light and verify the timing is the same...lol
I think the young person discount is cool.
My 406 has an Edelbrock 2703 eps dual plane and was going to upgrade to the Victor jr. Thank you Eric for saving me over $400 for a “new” Victor jr. Shame on you Edelbrock for losing your way and losing my business.
Would the old Victor Jr gain more power from stock to ported. And how much more?. Thanks. Watch all your videos. Great job. James
Could the rolled/blended edge only gaining 2 hp have to do with fuel atomization. I would think it increased flow dramatically but it may have hurt atomization. Thinking that sharp edge helps fling any droplets or unatomized fuel back into the airstream, after blending maybe it just clings to the wall and follows the contour and doesn't get introduced back into the airstream and reatomized. Just guessing
Lets hope the CNC heads help solve the old Vic Jr superiority puzzle, all we have at the moment is that it has a slightly bigger port opening than the test heads. Not surprised to see the anti reversion plates don't do a lot, the theory is just a little too simple.
There is a third version old script and square corners , single carb drilling
I got 3 of them.Have to make some money.
Great video Eric! Just goes to show you if it ain't broke don't fix it. You should show your Victor Jr results to Edelbrock, maybe they will go back to the original. Concerning your LS comparison, does it include putting a set of 15 degree heads on your dyno mule? That's the only way to do a true fair comparison. If the 23 degree heads can keep up, imagine what 15s will do!
I would love to do that but if I did I would do 13degree sbc vs 11degree LS but the cost for the SBC setup would be high.
That's why my old 355 ran so good
I have an idea on comparing the 2 Victor's. Block off the intake ports, make a plexiglass plate for the carb mount and CC both, that way you can measure the total volume to actually measure the difference between the 2. 25+HP is huge, there's gotta be a good reason.
Do you think/know the CNC ProMaxx are better or not as good as your hand ported Dragonslayers? Are they even close?
Can't wait for the LS stuff !!!
Jim McFarland was a very smart man .
I’d like to see the new one smoothed and ported like the old one, I’m curious if the performance is coming both from the larger plenum and smoothing, or if it is more down to the smoothing done to the older intake
So, when the manifold that was modified to fit a 4500 carb was tested, it was tested WITH a 4500 carb?
Man this is gold. You ever plan on doing a small block ford dyno mule? Just wondering, you got me sold in promaxx cylinder heads, I’ve been saving up for some. I’ll be getting in touch once I get more money rounded up. I know I don’t have enough yet.
The new manifold most likely has too much port volume, seems like the only clear difference.
The whole graph is shifted up like there was more compression on the old manifold. That’s amazing. Why would edelbrock change the casting?! I know they do testing on changes. Confusing?
Eric, what is the casting date on the bottom of the old Vic. Jr? Thanks, Video is top shelf!
bazillion ,, why can`t I enter that into a calculator ??? LOL
That's crazy 25hp on 2 identical victor jr who knows what it could be
I've got a 40 year old Victor Jr Bowtie still in the box. Never got to use it. Want to run it? Do you have any experience with them?
Sounds like a winner!
I heard about this test elsewhere. I dont' believe Edelbrock didn't make gains with the new product. What i "suspect" is the port exit at the manifold is a different size/shape and perhaps the "super victor" has the intake charge hitting a "wall" with the head ports protruding into the air flow path, whereas the victor jr have a better port match out of the box.
Why is the old one shiny in the bottom below carb? Looks like clear coat or something
Eric I have a old original stock vic jr. If I send it can we test it against the port matched one? It's just like yours just stock
Do the boosted dyno test with a blower. There are just too many variables that can't effect power with a turbo setup.
The super vic II is worth 25 to 30 hp over the super vic on a 427 sbc.I've done on a dyno
Hi Eric, great content! I would like to know what epoxy you use on aluminum intake manifolds, is it ok for long term use? Thanks.
Sooo
Where was the tourqe converter normally bolted to that flex plate
What is rotational mass and how to reduce it
Sorry folks
Wrong video !!
Getting old
Cut me some slack
Curious how old that Vic Jr is. I have one from the 90’s and it still looks more like the newer one than your older one.
It is much older!
Do you know or have you tested a vintage TM-1? I think it was a scorpion or tarantula intake?
Hey Eric,
Tim here, i understand NOT port matching the new Jr.....its NOT gonna gain 25 HP just from that...also, the area under the curve for the old Jr, is WAY more substantial than the new Jr.......is it port size (as in area?)......length shud be close.......i'm super curious as to why the old blows away the new......AWESOME vid!!!...
Yeah it doesn't really make sense. Same manifold model except for different years and looks overall the same (height and runner length), but big difference in power. Yet the mods he showed, like radiusing the top of the plenum, and port matching barely do anything?? 🤔
The Victor Jr ports are quite small as cast. My heads are matched to a 1205. Was going to match the roof and straight side of the intake ports but guess that doesn't even matter now? And that intake being LARGER than the heads "should" fall on it's face but this is another example of that not happening.
@@mikewillett5076 ur intake out-flowing ur heads shud be an advantage, NOT fall on its face.......you WANT the intake to out-flow the heads........or u'll never see the flow ur heads can do.....David Vizard is a big advocate of intake out flowing heads to make power.....if your head flows 280 cfm, but the intake only does 250.....the motor is choked, you want just the opposite......just a suggestion, and THANKS for the comment, i wish u well my brother......
@@timothyarnott3584 . Thanks for the reply. Yes I watched many of Vizards videos, none of us will know any secrets anymore! Lol.
Have heard that the intake should flow more than the heads, BUT, what about that huge lip?! Was saying that port matching can't mean much seeing this.
And, I wonder if having the intake be a restriction could help in certain applications. Like helping to give more driveability and throttle response for a smaller engine with large heads (like a 355 with 230cc heads). Or does the higher flowing intake apply across the board in ALL applications?
@@mikewillett5076 i'd say the higher flowing intake is across the board.......and a smaller intake on a large headed motor wont help throttle response necessarily, as in mid-range we lose any charge velocity, as the head flows to much.....the BEST charge velocity AT the head is what we're after, to get a full charge in, upping our volumetric efficiency, and making a smooth power curve.......when you put a small carb (650 lets say) on a 460 inch motor, throttle response will be great, then drive it........under load its gonna fall on its face......idling and reving is fine, under load suffers....EVERYTHING needs to work in harmony!!!.....hope that clarifies your querry......if not, sorry, i tend to go on and on......PEACE to you sir!!.........
@@timothyarnott3584 . No problem with the longish explanation, I like details. And I also tend to go long on explaining things.
Yes I'm aware of a combo having to be matched, but did wonder about certain things that could "crutch" certain combos, like the large heads on a smallish engine. But it makes sense to have that charge right there when it enters the large ports and build some velocity. I just thought a way large intake would LOSE velocity on an engine "not big enough".
And peace to you too!
Not surprised smoothing doesn't increase much on intake. Look at cnc porting on heads & cost but aren't smooth
Port matching isn't that critical. I've even ran mis-matched ports with no serious losses.
Its an overblown mod. Cant expect to feel it seat of pants, more of a while youre in there thing
Would the "old" Victor jr. still be the winner on a 383 not 406 ci? I'm guessing it would but not sure why.
I’m so curious what are the measured dimension differences are.
Think i have some old victors laying around...
Did you test the Edlerbrock Victor jr (SKU 2900) 1406 factory 23 degree port matched to the old Victor jr?
The part number is 2975 for both
The Victor Jr is based off the Mopar W2 design developed by Herb McCandless. Edelbrock copied the Chevy after the Mopar design
I wonder if that mismatch is shearing fuel and putting it back in the stream
Good hunch, and it makes sense being that bad of a mismatch SHOULDN'T work well at all! This is the 3rd time I've heard of this. I know port matching is overrated but c'mon. I never opened the manifold all the way to the gasket, always a little under or even matched the next gasket smaller. Does that even matter now???
Is there much difference in manifold volume?
Have you ever tested the AFR composite SBC manifold?
It’s the same as the afr intake they make now in aluminum
ok thanks. seems like the composite would be better for heat@@WeingartnerRacing
@@8mywal8 Stopped making them, couldnt get them to not leak oil
It’s hard to comprehend how two very similar single plane manifolds could produce such different results. We are talking a 5% difference, not insignificant. How is that possible?
Any chance of dynoing a old school 302 /327/ 350LT-1 SBC with the old Victor jr. Twist them on up to 7,500rpm. with solid lifters
This has a solid roller. Right now there is no need to twist to 7500rpm it doesn't make more power after 6800rpm.
Stock those engines wont even turn that high.
Eric, thoughts on a Victor Ram dual quad tunnel ram for this application?
It would probably make more peak power than the street one but everywhere else it would be worse.
Contacting Edelbrock could help by asking how they justify selling a new design that isn’t an improvement at all.
Engine masters s6 e8 will tell a little bit!!!
Mr Weingartner, thank you for sharing your results. We are learning a lot from your research. Is there a mailbox address I can send cash for your books? I don't have credit or debit cards.
Yes, My website has my address.
@@WeingartnerRacing Thank You Mr Weingartner
I thought that the hurricane intake made the most power on the intake test.
No. It did until later intakes were tested.
I must have missed your video. Sorry for that. Your tests and data are top notch!!!! Thanks for all the work you do to pass your knowledge on to us.
Hi Eric. I have numerous Vic jr. intakes from many different years and none of them have the depression between the intake runners on the outside. The only intake I have that looks like the “old” Vic jr. that you dyno’d and is absolutely whooping all the other intakes, especially the “new” Vic jr. is an old Vic 2970. Is it possible the person who mailed you the old Vic jr. is trying to pull the wool over your eyes?
Check out all the Vic jr intakes you can, scour the internet and compare them.
I believe you really have an original Victor intake that someone has modified to look like a Vic jr.
Nope I’m positive this was stock aside from port matching.
@@WeingartnerRacing I can’t get past the depressions between the intake runners on the outside of the “old” Vic jr. you have. I’ve never seen that before.
@@lewisfoltz6306 the new one has the same depression it’s just radiused into it.
I have an old one sitting on my shelf that is exactly like the one Eric tested.
@@ciggs5649 is it for sale? lol
What year was the old intake cast ?
Don’t know
@@WeingartnerRacing ok. Mine has it cast on the bottom side of the manifold. 1991 in my case. It looks like a both of them combined in one.
Where do you feel the hp difference is coming from on the old Vic Jr? Is there a date code or some kind of identifier if I wanted to find one like that old style?
DUDE WATCH THE VIDEO AGAIN. HE EXPLAINED ALL THAT
@@hankclingingsmith8707Actually, he doesn't. He did point out that the runners are slightly taller but he didn't say that would be the reason for any significant gain or loss.
He said he did not know. He told the visual difference and a close up on casting stamp so you can go find one.
Is the old one a 2970 or a 2975?
A 2970 is a super Vic dominator flange. This is a 2975 Vic jr.
So what in the actual F is going g on here...who at Edelbrock is responsible for making a clearly worse product??!!
Engine Masters did clover leaf teat with 1' & 2" spacer clover leaf & no clover leaf. Spacers ever loose power in real world & not dyno bench racing ?
They have never done a test were they remove the clover leaf from the manifold. I'm talking about the intake not the spacer.
@@WeingartnerRacing I understand but same result fyi...
@@ronaldrey8474 not from my testing.
Some run best with no spacer at all. Internet says start stacking spacers up before its even fired!
A "Demon Carb'' really ? Why?
Because it’s beat almost every other carb and can be converted to methanol easily.
I had a Demon Carburetor years ago that I had great luck with.