Ya you know TR1Y , LoL I loved this intake with the 660s, angle plug 2.02 heads 13.2 to 1 and a 630 solid roller. 72 Nova with the hood off. Great memories
At 300 rpm per second, the dyno is pulling at the equivalent of a car in direct gear 1:1 ratio. in 1st gear, a car accelerates at approximately 1200 rpm per second, 2nd gear is approximately 600 rpm per second. AS Eric says, the dyno loads the engine much harder that it will ever be in the car. That tunnel ram would be stellar on the street!!!! with porting it would beat the crap out of any single 4 bbl over a wider range. Thanks again for all your good work and info
Great stuff Eric. The tunnel ram is a classic example of peak cylinder demand trumping cfm calculations, along with the advantages of the increased strength of wave tuning by being able to utilise a first or second reflection. Weber carb's on 4cyl motors are a perfect example of peak cylinder demand vs cfm, massively over carbed, but good drivability, and excellent horsepower.
I love tunnel rams!!! Thanks for sharing Eric! For those who don't believe in tunnel rams need to check out Andy Wood's channel Unity Motor Sports. He runs a tunnel ram on a 393 cu in Ford small block in an F100 truck on the street. Still gets 16 mpg. Tunnel rams are in between the dual plan and single plane intakes when it comes to runner length so you get the best of both worlds.
I love the channel and videos Eric! Do tunnel rams work on the street? Yes...a very resounding YES! I have a 1999 Dodge Ram 1500 with a very well built 5.9 (360) magnum and I too am running a tunnel ram (Edelbrock TM-5) with a one-off plenum designed for a front mounted throttle body, properly located injectors, welded and redrilled to fit magnum heads and relocated the thermostat to the magnum location (LA's are too centered to allow the AC compressor) It wasn't as time consuming as you might think and since this truck is driven weekly with an under 400 inch engine (not disclosing the specifics) with 6.35 rods with a single GT45 and 18 pounds of boost with near 10:1 CR...I couldn't imagine using anything different on the street. It has excellent street manners...does everything perfectly. For those that are curious, I do use the EMU Black exclusively on my cars/trucks. Do tunnel rams work on the street... absolutely. They work even better with a little bit of boost! I built this out of a necessity due to a lack of companies wanting to produce parts for these truck engines. I could buy better heads that would free up manifold selections, but I'd build a 3G hemi before going that route...and the hemi would also get a tunnel ram too. You're a great source of useable information and I wish you great success to your satisfaction!
On your carb tuning, I agree. Having boats and cars the boats are way more difficult to get set up right... The cars are a lot more forgiving in little deficiencies in the tune up, the boat will completely fall on it's face if it isn't really close. And that's for the same reason... it pretty much is always running at peak load much like a dyno. My hat always was off to the OEs in the marine industry. They stuck with carbs a lot longer but they were so damn good out of the box. Most of the carb stuff I've had in boats ran as good or better than both their marine and automotive counter parts. Keep on doing great work Eric.
I remember the Weiand Tunnel ram tests back in the day in Popular hot rodding, hotrod, emc magazine, it killed everything else from the bottom to the top
Holley has an older paper (you can find it as a PDF) that allows you to predict the minimum wide open throttle RPM that a double pumper 4-barrel will be able to meter fuel correctly based on CID and CFM. My question it Eric W. is have you seen this and do you think it still has some merit?
In modern day efi manifolds, we look at the max rpm, then tune the runner length to provide the fattest average HP/TQ throughout the operating RPM range.The runner length of the tunnel ram, combined with better fuel distribution makes it a winner all through the mid range
I tried a tunnel ram on my 406 with a pair of Holley 950 UXP carbs, it was an entertaining exercise that resulted in the same peak number as my 1050/Super victor 4500, but much less area under the curve than the single 4. It did look WAY cool though. (66x HP at 7600)
Have a virgin pro dominator with 4150 top, only minor polishing on external for a show car.Picked it up a few months ago from terry rosebush motorsports. Took me awhile to find one unmolested.I have not done anything with it yet. Intended for a 3.800 stroke with 6.125 rods and 4.030 bore, with a set of afr heads. It is available for use.
I'm of the thinking that the tunnel ram is awesome because it's so darn straight, the runners are long, and there's enough plenum for the carburetor to do its best. -- This makes me want to say that some sort of cross ram with side draft Webers would be a nice setup because we can use really long runners and also a common plenum, but the irregularities in the firing order might cause issues. There'd need to be some sort of tube that allows the two plenums to communicate and I don't know if we can get big enough side draft Webers. -- The other option could be a really tall dual plane type of thing that stands tall like a tunnel ram, but has 180 degree cylinders bundled together.
People that say that stuff have never run a tunnel ram.nothing beats the power they make. I have run tunnel rams on the street on big blocks and small blocks both.
Impressive numbers from the tunnel ram. I would suspect during a race with 2 identical cars and the manifolds being the only difference, by the time the single plane gets to the point it's making more power, the tunnel ram car is already well in front of it, and it's not going to stay in the RPM range where it has an advantage long enough to close that gap.
Hey Eric, any chance you could compare spacers on tunnel rams? In particular, the HVH super sucker versus the Wilson Manifolds shear plate? Love your dyno comparisons! Keep it up!
Tunnel rams are the best had one on my 79 monte in 1996 and for back then it was fast as hell i drove it everywhere except the interstate cause of the 456 gears
I built but never ran a street big block w/ two 600 vac. secondaries. In theory the secondaries can be tuned to open as commanded. It always made my ears red when they would holler 1200 cfm was too much without knowing how fast or how far I planned to open the secondaries.
Look at what Dodge did with the 340 and 440. I believe that they had a combined 1350cfm with the outboard carbs being vacuum operated and the center being the main operable carb.
DD speed shop drove a 62 nova 350 hydraulic roller that same tunnel ram 650 double pumper got 14 miles a gallon which is hard to Believe he Drove from Canada too hot rod drag week and they said it’s not a Street intake BS. I got the same intake on my Camaro 406 Profiler, 230 on sbc 630 solid roller so yes driving on streets not a problem
put a 471 on one on a roadster, looked awesome but backfire..... did it again on a long ram chrysler same result I.m a slow learner put on blow off valves and an intercooler worked great
Eric Weingartner, i am trying to find the Carburetor guy you mentioned and i keep getting the singer 😂 Can you post his business name, thanks awesome video, I love the tunnel rams, putting a tunnel on a bbc right now for a 69 Camaro.
So if I were to tunnel ram a moderate SBC, something like what you built for your sister's car, would it be streetable in a 4000lbs. long bed truck? It might even fit under the hood 🤔
You have to actually recognize or acknowledge it’s not flowing 2000cfm. The carbs were rated at 1000 at x vacuum. They will not see that much vacuum with 2 of them open on top. So at that point to are not rated at 1000 each, plus you get the advantage of have a barrel on each cylinder to be tuned for best results.
Too bad you don’t dyno a 340 Mopar I have a brand new never bolted on an engine a NOS W2 pro dominator tunnel ram. I’m building a 040 over 340 with W2 heads and I’m going to do the same comparison. Single plane 4150 and then the tunnel ram. Solid roller with 12.5 compression. But I was planning on using 2 prepped 750s maybe I’ll do 850s instead. Thanks for the info
I was going to say if the carburetors aren't split, they are no longer 1000 cfm carburetors. They are more like 500 cfm each. Instead of being 1000 cfm @ 1.5 inches of vacuum, they are now 500 cfm @ .75 inches of vacuum.
With the only disadvantage of the tunnel-ram being its height,why don't the make that manifold with same runner length and volumes,but with the runners laid flatter,at around 30 degrees or so?
There’s only two differences between the performer RPM and the performer RPM air gap, obviously the air gap, and the milled divider, the milled divider has been shown to be worth 5 to 10 hp on most high-performance small blocks, I have never seen that AFR air gap beat the Edelbrock RPM air gap or RPM for that matter, just goes to show you don’t know until you test!
So the street tunnel ram had a peak airflow issue compared to the big boy single plane. But porting it would let the tunnel ram win at the top end. It was good to see that tunnel ram beat dual plane at low rpm.
It will only out perform a bad tunnel ram. A correctly designed tunnel ram will provide the correct airflow and the proper runner lengths and plenum size. At each cyllinder the AF ratio will be almost identical, which is impossible on a dual plane or single plane single carb manifold. The AF will be all over the place with those. @@leonardfoster6252
I have a pro dominator I will let you test I have tried every tunnel ram. The pro dominator is bar far the best You can’t buy it any more they did away with it when they was bought out
Wonder what the Street ram would be if you ran it with a single 4150 top just curious to think the numbers would be for it verse the single plane single thank you
Single 4bbl tops on a tunnel ram suck.... the end cylinders always run lean... it's a disaster...any which way you go.... fatten it up to cure the lean cylinders then the middle cylinders are overwhelming rich...
There have been some myths, or turds circling the drain for more than 40 yrs, and they never seem to get flushed ! Please do more myth flushing for us. Like avgas. OMG ! a fuel designed for high altitude!
Tunnel rams were known to wash the rings out of an engine. Use to drill two small holes in the back bottom of manifold so the fuel would not drain down on the cylinders. The manifold was an Edelbrock box intake for small block and had two 660 cfm center squirters...
i run a tunnel ram on my 406 1978 chevy Camaro with 2 600 holley,s mechanical secondary's and it runs just fine even foot breaking it i stomp it to the floor with zero hesitation ,,, and yes run with no hood as well ,,, would not have it any other way ,,, lol
It’s pretty impressive that tunnel ram stock makes that much power compared to the highly modified single plane, and as for drivability who wants to drive that huge single plane below 4500 rpm on the street. My son had a 383 built for high RPM with a single plane in his 71 Monte, it was miserable to drive, no power below 4000 rpm and a super loose converter, I’d use the tunnel ram any day just for the IAT’s alone
As a road racer and speedway racer tunnel rams have been tried and are a waste of time. And generally will not fit under the bonnet. Pure drag race stuff and personally not worth the effort. Multiple Webers sidedraft or downdraft are beaten by a good single plane also. Old hat but should actually show an improvement. Speedway sedans running constant flow injection generally had more power and driveability on the same engines when forced to change. And ofcourse with the methanol carbs around now are a LOT better. As are the engines.And far smaller car counts!
As a drag racer who uses them they are definitely worth the minimal effort and are much faster. If you are using webers that is more of the issue than a tunnel ram intake.
this may sound stupid but just for fun you should get into mini biking. Find a Mega Moto 212 Pro and start building. Super cheap, all the same stuff as big motors-cars. Nothing but fun!! Plus Im gonna want my 212cc head ported! lol Holley Sky Ram for the win!
Back in 1976 that tunnel ram was called a TR1Y. With a set of 660 center squirters on it it was a great combo combined with a set of 292 heads!!
Ya you know TR1Y , LoL I loved this intake with the 660s, angle plug 2.02 heads 13.2 to 1 and a 630 solid roller. 72 Nova with the hood off. Great memories
TunnelRam is King!
Of course I'm biased
Great video and comparison Eric
Lol, you would be. 😎
At 300 rpm per second, the dyno is pulling at the equivalent of a car in direct gear 1:1 ratio. in 1st gear, a car accelerates at approximately 1200 rpm per second, 2nd gear is approximately 600 rpm per second. AS Eric says, the dyno loads the engine much harder that it will ever be in the car. That tunnel ram would be stellar on the street!!!! with porting it would beat the crap out of any single 4 bbl over a wider range. Thanks again for all your good work and info
Great stuff Eric. The tunnel ram is a classic example of peak cylinder demand trumping cfm calculations, along with the advantages of the increased strength of wave tuning by being able to utilise a first or second reflection. Weber carb's on 4cyl motors are a perfect example of peak cylinder demand vs cfm, massively over carbed, but good drivability, and excellent horsepower.
I love tunnel rams!!! Thanks for sharing Eric! For those who don't believe in tunnel rams need to check out Andy Wood's channel Unity Motor Sports. He runs a tunnel ram on a 393 cu in Ford small block in an F100 truck on the street. Still gets 16 mpg. Tunnel rams are in between the dual plan and single plane intakes when it comes to runner length so you get the best of both worlds.
This might be my favorite manifold test out of all your videos.
Thank you!
Another great video Eric.We appreciate all your time and effort
I love the channel and videos Eric!
Do tunnel rams work on the street? Yes...a very resounding YES!
I have a 1999 Dodge Ram 1500 with a very well built 5.9 (360) magnum and I too am running a tunnel ram (Edelbrock TM-5) with a one-off plenum designed for a front mounted throttle body, properly located injectors, welded and redrilled to fit magnum heads and relocated the thermostat to the magnum location (LA's are too centered to allow the AC compressor)
It wasn't as time consuming as you might think and since this truck is driven weekly with an under 400 inch engine (not disclosing the specifics) with 6.35 rods with a single GT45 and 18 pounds of boost with near 10:1 CR...I couldn't imagine using anything different on the street. It has excellent street manners...does everything perfectly.
For those that are curious, I do use the EMU Black exclusively on my cars/trucks.
Do tunnel rams work on the street... absolutely. They work even better with a little bit of boost!
I built this out of a necessity due to a lack of companies wanting to produce parts for these truck engines. I could buy better heads that would free up manifold selections, but I'd build a 3G hemi before going that route...and the hemi would also get a tunnel ram too.
You're a great source of useable information and I wish you great success to your satisfaction!
On your carb tuning, I agree. Having boats and cars the boats are way more difficult to get set up right... The cars are a lot more forgiving in little deficiencies in the tune up, the boat will completely fall on it's face if it isn't really close. And that's for the same reason... it pretty much is always running at peak load much like a dyno. My hat always was off to the OEs in the marine industry. They stuck with carbs a lot longer but they were so damn good out of the box. Most of the carb stuff I've had in boats ran as good or better than both their marine and automotive counter parts. Keep on doing great work Eric.
Awesome test. Cool to see the comparison to the street dual plane and high-end single plane.
I remember the Weiand Tunnel ram tests back in the day in Popular hot rodding, hotrod, emc magazine, it killed everything else from the bottom to the top
Holley has an older paper (you can find it as a PDF) that allows you to predict the minimum wide open throttle RPM that a double pumper 4-barrel will be able to meter fuel correctly based on CID and CFM.
My question it Eric W. is have you seen this and do you think it still has some merit?
In modern day efi manifolds, we look at the max rpm, then tune the runner length to provide the fattest average HP/TQ throughout the operating RPM range.The runner length of the tunnel ram, combined with better fuel distribution makes it a winner all through the mid range
In a modern efi you are not having to draw the fuel with signal so airspeed is not as critical
I tried a tunnel ram on my 406 with a pair of Holley 950 UXP carbs, it was an entertaining exercise that resulted in the same peak number as my 1050/Super victor 4500, but much less area under the curve than the single 4. It did look WAY cool though. (66x HP at 7600)
Awesome Job Eric! I am looking forward to what that street ram will do with some porting!
Nice teats Eric.
Thanks for sharing.
Have a great day.
Thank you for your knowledge and video's USA 🇺🇸
I've got a one off street tunnel ram like yours converted to MPFI. Planning to use on a 383 for my c4. Those numbers are crazy
Another tunnel ram fanboy here. Also, I love ITB cross rams! 😎
I been running that same tunnel ram for years and its always worked like a charm.....
Have a virgin pro dominator with 4150 top, only minor polishing on external for a show car.Picked it up a few months ago from terry rosebush motorsports. Took me awhile to find one unmolested.I have not done anything with it yet. Intended for a 3.800 stroke with 6.125 rods and 4.030 bore, with a set of afr heads. It is available for use.
I remember some tunnel ram dyno testing in a magazine. One of the things they did was put some sort of stuffer in the plenum between the carbs.
They just wanted to reduce the volume of the plenum.
Two 1000cfm Mighty Demon Carbs ? Perfect ! I love tunnel rams. It would be interesting to see how a pair of 750s would stack up in comparison
Great info thanks for sharing
That's awesome that tunnel ram did amazing
I'm of the thinking that the tunnel ram is awesome because it's so darn straight, the runners are long, and there's enough plenum for the carburetor to do its best.
-- This makes me want to say that some sort of cross ram with side draft Webers would be a nice setup because we can use really long runners and also a common plenum, but the irregularities in the firing order might cause issues. There'd need to be some sort of tube that allows the two plenums to communicate and I don't know if we can get big enough side draft Webers.
-- The other option could be a really tall dual plane type of thing that stands tall like a tunnel ram, but has 180 degree cylinders bundled together.
Years ago, I also had a eldlbrock TRX1 ràm with 2 660 carbs.
I do think the pro dominator ram made more power when wound up
People that say that stuff have never run a tunnel ram.nothing beats the power they make. I have run tunnel rams on the street on big blocks and small blocks both.
Impressive numbers from the tunnel ram. I would suspect during a race with 2 identical cars and the manifolds being the only difference, by the time the single plane gets to the point it's making more power, the tunnel ram car is already well in front of it, and it's not going to stay in the RPM range where it has an advantage long enough to close that gap.
Hey Eric, any chance you could compare spacers on tunnel rams? In particular, the HVH super sucker versus the Wilson Manifolds shear plate?
Love your dyno comparisons! Keep it up!
I love the edelbrock street tunnel rams, got one for big block
You could extrude hone the Pro Ram II and keep you from cutting it in half.
Tunnel rams are the best had one on my 79 monte in 1996 and for back then it was fast as hell i drove it everywhere except the interstate cause of the 456 gears
My Mopar 360LA plans call for the Weiand 1995 tunnel ram.
I built but never ran a street big block w/ two 600 vac. secondaries. In theory the secondaries can be tuned to open as commanded. It always made my ears red when they would holler 1200 cfm was too much without knowing how fast or how far I planned to open the secondaries.
Look at what Dodge did with the 340 and 440. I believe that they had a combined 1350cfm with the outboard carbs being vacuum operated and the center being the main operable carb.
Our Pro Dominator with a 2-inch spacer and 850s made 23 more H/P.
In AHRA formula drag racing. Multiple carbs always had a quicker ET and MPH. AHRA created Pro Stock class.... Tunnel Rams.. and TR carbs showed up.
I pondered the holley hi ram for my LS with a single carb then try the dual carb plate.
DD speed shop drove a 62 nova 350 hydraulic roller that same tunnel ram 650 double pumper got 14 miles a gallon which is hard to Believe he Drove from Canada too hot rod drag week and they said it’s not a Street intake BS. I got the same intake on my Camaro 406 Profiler, 230 on sbc 630 solid roller so yes driving on streets not a problem
I'd like to see what tapered spacers would do on the tunnel ram
They were on there
put a 471 on one on a roadster, looked awesome but backfire..... did it again on a long ram chrysler same result I.m a slow learner put on blow off valves and an intercooler worked great
Trams are cool and they work pickup 3 tents on my c10
Eric Weingartner, i am trying to find the Carburetor guy you mentioned and i keep getting the singer 😂
Can you post his business name, thanks awesome video, I love the tunnel rams, putting a tunnel on a bbc right now for a 69 Camaro.
So if I were to tunnel ram a moderate SBC, something like what you built for your sister's car, would it be streetable in a 4000lbs. long bed truck? It might even fit under the hood 🤔
,,, don't ( usually ) worry so much about the manifold to head flange warping, with welding up in the plenum area ,,, .
I got the same tunnel ram intake, how would it perform without the top plate, by just bolting the carbs to the bottom part
Hey Eric can the tunnel ram be equipped with a port for a pcv valve and where would you locate it?
You have to actually recognize or acknowledge it’s not flowing 2000cfm.
The carbs were rated at 1000 at x vacuum. They will not see that much vacuum with 2 of them open on top. So at that point to are not rated at 1000 each, plus you get the advantage of have a barrel on each cylinder to be tuned for best results.
Too bad you don’t dyno a 340 Mopar I have a brand new never bolted on an engine a NOS W2 pro dominator tunnel ram. I’m building a 040 over 340 with W2 heads and I’m going to do the same comparison. Single plane 4150 and then the tunnel ram. Solid roller with 12.5 compression. But I was planning on using 2 prepped 750s maybe I’ll do 850s instead. Thanks for the info
Like to see a profiler tunnel ram test, one that Darin Morgan had designed
I was going to say if the carburetors aren't split, they are no longer 1000 cfm carburetors. They are more like 500 cfm each. Instead of being 1000 cfm @ 1.5 inches of vacuum, they are now 500 cfm @ .75 inches of vacuum.
With the only disadvantage of the tunnel-ram being its height,why don't the make that manifold with same runner length and volumes,but with the runners laid flatter,at around 30 degrees or so?
They do make them, but they are called a cross ram, or x-ram.
How does a firing order change effect a tunnel ram?
There’s only two differences between the performer RPM and the performer RPM air gap, obviously the air gap, and the milled divider, the milled divider has been shown to be worth 5 to 10 hp on most high-performance small blocks, I have never seen that AFR air gap beat the Edelbrock RPM air gap or RPM for that matter, just goes to show you don’t know until you test!
So the street tunnel ram had a peak airflow issue compared to the big boy single plane. But porting it would let the tunnel ram win at the top end. It was good to see that tunnel ram beat dual plane at low rpm.
Don't worry, there is single four barrel manifolds and carbs that will put perform a tunnel ram...
It will only out perform a bad tunnel ram. A correctly designed tunnel ram will provide the correct airflow and the proper runner lengths and plenum size. At each cyllinder the AF ratio will be almost identical, which is impossible on a dual plane or single plane single carb manifold. The AF will be all over the place with those. @@leonardfoster6252
Not going to lie after u ran the 2x1000 cfm carbs makes me wonder what 2x 600s would do
I have a SBC pro dominator with 4150 & 4500 tops your welcome to barrow it
I have a pro dominator I will let you test I have tried every tunnel ram. The pro dominator is bar far the best You can’t buy it any more they did away with it when they was bought out
Great video!
To bad you didn't have a weiand tunnel ram to try. I've heard the Eddy does better for the street, but the weiand does better for power.
Is that tunnel ram split in the middle separating the two carburetors or do the front and rear carburetors share the same air
No. It’s open
Tunnel Rams are all about VE . Thats PURE TORQUE !!!
Wonder what the Street ram would be if you ran it with a single 4150 top just curious to think the numbers would be for it verse the single plane single thank you
Single 4bbl tops on a tunnel ram suck.... the end cylinders always run lean... it's a disaster...any which way you go.... fatten it up to cure the lean cylinders then the middle cylinders are overwhelming rich...
TR1X Tunnel Rams run well on small cubic inch chevies.. 283 no problem.
SOOOOO.... what we figured out here is that air doesn't like making turns. Straight shot to the intake port? Yes, please.
There have been some myths, or turds circling the drain for more than 40 yrs, and they never seem to get flushed ! Please do more myth flushing for us. Like avgas. OMG ! a fuel designed for high altitude!
I bet that Tunnel ram would accelerate hard in a car . I love tunnel rams lol
Tunnel rams were known to wash the rings out of an engine. Use to drill two small holes in the back bottom of manifold so the fuel would not drain down on the cylinders. The manifold was an Edelbrock box intake for small block and had two 660 cfm center squirters...
What it does on the Dyno doesn't always work on the track...
Thanks!
i run a tunnel ram on my 406 1978 chevy Camaro with 2 600 holley,s mechanical secondary's and it runs just fine even foot breaking it i stomp it to the floor with zero hesitation ,,, and yes run with no hood as well ,,, would not have it any other way ,,, lol
11.2.1 what fuel did you use???? Thanks
91 pump gas
@@WeingartnerRacing that's why I love your Dyno tests . everyone says 10.5 is max for 93 octane pump gas. Thanks 🙏👍
Not surprising for those who have run 2x4's. Better everywhere in the curve.
It’s pretty impressive that tunnel ram stock makes that much power compared to the highly modified single plane, and as for drivability who wants to drive that huge single plane below 4500 rpm on the street. My son had a 383 built for high RPM with a single plane in his 71 Monte, it was miserable to drive, no power below 4000 rpm and a super loose converter, I’d use the tunnel ram any day just for the IAT’s alone
As a road racer and speedway racer tunnel rams have been tried and are a waste of time. And generally will not fit under the bonnet. Pure drag race stuff and personally not worth the effort.
Multiple Webers sidedraft or downdraft are beaten by a good single plane also. Old hat but should actually show an improvement.
Speedway sedans running constant flow injection generally had more power and driveability on the same engines when forced to change. And ofcourse with the methanol carbs around now are a LOT better. As are the engines.And far smaller car counts!
As a drag racer who uses them they are definitely worth the minimal effort and are much faster. If you are using webers that is more of the issue than a tunnel ram intake.
this may sound stupid but just for fun you should get into mini biking. Find a Mega Moto 212 Pro and start building. Super cheap, all the same stuff as big motors-cars. Nothing but fun!!
Plus Im gonna want my 212cc head ported! lol
Holley Sky Ram for the win!
its funny to hear people dont like tunnel rams every new car and truck come standard with tunnel rams