As a 63 year old, blue belt in both jiu jitsu, and judo, if your training for just belt promotion, you have the wrong mindset. My goal is black belt in both. But I don’t want some sympathy belt, if I don’t earn it I don’t want it. The training, rolling, learning, personnel growth, and comraderie is what it’s all about.
I am 48 y/o and started the same day with a fellow student who is 23 y/o. I had no expectation that I would earn my belt the same time he did. However, I was more than happy to go at my old man pace. He earned his blue belt in 18 months. I did it in 28 months (about 2 months ago). My gym-mate is his on his way to purple soon and will likely get to brown before I make it to purple. He has time to compete more, train more, and his recovery time is much quicker. I am so happy for him but also I am focused on my goals and what I need to do as a man who will be in my 50's seeking to earn a purple belt. Anything after purple is by God's grace because I am defying time and the average data on physiology. So at my age, I don't train for the belts, I train for the love of the arts (I have black belts in two karate styles), to stay in shape, and to hopefully teach the next generation. As always Ryan, thanks for your knowledge, insight, and wisdom.
Thank you for your thoughtful comment. Having earned black belts in Karate in your younger years, you have a unique perspective that people coming in at your age but with no martial arts experience just don’t have. Congratulations on your blue belt!
Im in the same boat as you (same age, same belt) with the same mentality. I just show up, try to soak in as much as i can, try to connect some dots, and try to get better at something every day. Keep repeating that process in all aspects of life and I will be bond to be better than i was prior. I just need to listen to my body to know what moves I should do and not (inversions being some im not gonna do competitively) and know when i need to rest my body. The belt is a nice measure but not why I do it.
Someone else's theory on this was that black belt just means a person has maxed out their individual potential in jiu jitsu. I like that system better than it being an absolute level.
How do they medal women in olympic, and how do they medla paralimpic handicap athletes ? How do they medals seniors and all that...I dont think its should be an issue nowadays.
That's a huge thing in Jiu-jitsu, there are no real standards and rank is largely subjective. I'm a brown belt who has been training for 20 years. I can hang just fine with some black belts and I have been destroyed by some brown belts. I think it really comes down to this: If you have a good instructor with a respected linage and they promote you to a certain belt, in their eyes you earned it.
I am a 60 years old III stripe white belt. I earned every stripe. No free lunch.I train 4 x weekly. What gives me an advantage over the much younger guys is extreme mental toughness and perseverance. My back and neck are sore daily!
Kudos to you man. I'm closing in on 60 but only train 2x most weeks. The weeks I do manage 3x or 4x, and maybe roll at an open may are very satisfying, but I feel totally wrecked for a couple weeks after and dial it back for a while.
Ryan, I have cerebral palsy and I’m 52. I recently started back at BJJ. I asked my instructor if I should put my white belt on. He said you earned your rank. We have to remember it’s not about the belt. It’s about what can you can get out of it. For me it’s the small victories. Example doing a move you couldn’t do before or modifying a move that works for me. My instructor says it makes him think of moves in different way and it makes him a better instructor.
I agree. My flexibility is limited in some areas due to being older and having had a hio replacement but my Sensei is always ready to show me a different way to do a technique or an alternate related technique that works for me when I ask him. This is the mark of an excellent, caring Sensei.
So if you live to be 78 years old and your physical skills decline does that mean you should be demoted to the level that you fight against a 30 year old black belt?
I was thinking exactly the same thing. There's also different skill levels at black belt. If your a black belt and get beaten by Roger Gracie (which most will) do you get demoted to brown? I get what he's saying but don't really agree. You can't compare a woman fire fighter to your 30,40, 50 + jiu-jitsu person. For one thing he's comparing saving someone's life with someone on a journey of self improvement. Isn't that what martial arts is about? Earning belts is a way of acknowledging that in my books. I'm a 52 year old brown belt and I've had trouble with the odd 20 year old purple belt, who also competes in MMA but on the whole I more than hold my own with the majority of youngsters I come up against. I'm confident of defending my self against almost anyone who has no jiu-jitsu. Can't say the same for alot of other 52 year olds.
This is a fair point and a good question. But ultimately I don't think it is persuasive. In this hypothetical scenario, a 78-year old Ryan Young is still a black belt and should not be demoted because even though his skills would have declined significantly by that time, he legitimately earned and demonstrated the mastery of jiu jitsu necessary to hold a black belt at one point in his jiu jitsu journey. That is completely different than a 60 year old who makes it to purple or brown, but because he started practicing BJJ late in life, his physical condition diminished before he had the ability to demonstrate black belt level mastery. It's easy to see a scenario where a black or brown belt gets to an age and condition in life where he or she will begin to struggle when rolling with younger, stronger (and lower ranked) people. Maybe even lose with increasing frequency. But they should not be demoted because we should respect the fact that they earned their rank. I will say with respect to the gender issue however, I don't agree with the idea that there should be a blanket rule against all women achieving black belt. Belts don't see gender. If a woman is a black belt, it will show (and yes even perhaps against male black belts). It may be more rare and a tougher challenge to achieve, but certainly not a conceptual impossibility.
Professor Ryan - You’re suggesting that in order to be a legit black belt, you must be competitive against a prototypical black belt, but without describing your idea of a prototypical black belt, you cannot expect your audience to follow your point. Please explain the standards by which you gauge black belts so we can have a clearer understanding of your point.
The point of the video, is it’s a topic that will never really be resolved. The thought, is that ANYONE who exhibits the necessary skill levels to execute the concepts, will be in a position to “earn rank.” No matter the age or gender.
I dont think no merit based promotions are good long term. My son did TKD and outperformed some higher belts I get athletic ability but he didn't even block shots. This made me end after his period. I'll never be as fit as ppl my age and me capping g out is ok if I don't meet the requirement not a perception.
I am a woman, not physically fit in traditional standards, and started BJJ at 52, and got 6 weeks into it, then covid hit. I'm 53 now and started up again, another 6 weeks. My biggest struggle is balance. I know i will continue to get better. And the others at the gym are very encouraging and don't treat me like I'm old, just new :)
Ryan you know me, I’ve been training for 11 years now and after 4 years as a purple belt and a school owner feel that there are other aspects to being a black belt besides your performance on the mats. Just as some Black Belts are great instructors and suck at competition and vise versa, I’ve been blessed to have been able to be successful at both and at 53 now I rather be evaluated by my ability to teach not perform.
Well said. I’m 52 and it never entered my mind that I could get “old man credit” in Jiu Jitsu, Muay Thai or anything else that I attempt. If I can’t earn it then I don’t deserve it.
Why would you penalize an older BJJ practitioner who is technically proficient in BJJ techniques but can't keep up with someone half their age or much stronger than them? That's like judging a fish on its ability to climb a tree.
I appreciate your honesty. I’m 54, three striped white, bell, and just you should be enjoying my progress. I may or may not ever attain black belt. But hopefully I’ll be able to protect myself and my family as I move on.
I have to agree on all points Professor Ryan said. There’s no easy answer, but if you are middle aged (I’m 57, smallish 160lbs, 5 1/2 year BB) and you are “serious” I’ll be honest and say you really have to be fully absorbed in to this lifestyle, because it really is one. The constant thought and search for technical perfection, deep conceptual understanding, bio-mechanical leverage mastery, constant flexibility training, nutritional supplements, healthy eating, alcohol abstinence (I’m my case) S & C, and therapeutic self-care for structural wellness and continued high mobility has to become you. I can’t deliver the goods in the way the 37 year old tall, athletic and accomplished head instructor at my school can, but it’s my responsibility to be as much trouble as I can for everyone with minimal concessions for myself, because I’m not given breaks (nor would I want any). I personally would have been happy to remain a purple belt way back in my mid 40’s if I couldn’t physically do enough moves to expand my technicality or execute certain strategies. I believe however everybody type, complete with its own limitations can be uniquely tuned to develop a specific game that can be applied on just about anyone, but you need a creative, improvisational mindset.
I am 57yrs old and I have just started judo. I completely agree that a black belt has to be earned..no exceptions. I agree with everything you say apart from one point. The problem is if a 90yr old has had a black belt for 40 yrs but keeps being beaten by purple belts do we say that this is an old man credit too or do we just respect his prior accomplishment. A black belt is a standard to reach and that in my view is non negotiable but over time the skill and strength level of everyone will diminish...then respect for knowledge kicks in. Judo deals with this synthesis in a very clever way. There is a black belt for fighting and there is a technical black belt. Many of the technical black belts are amazing and gifted teachers who make a significant contribution to the art. I feel this is a good balance. Really thought provoking video. Thank you.
I totally agree. Brazilian jujutsu belt system isn't about attendance alone. It tells everyone what you're capable of. It's contraversial but I also agree with Grand Master Helio grading woman no further than purple. It doesn't mean I have less respect for all woman that have been promoted past purple at all -- I also won't delude myself into believing woman physically are capable of more than men in most conditions involving jujutsu
I started Jiu-Jitsu at age 62, now 66 with 16 Months blue belt. I train Jiu-Jitsu for Loving the art of the sport. I enjoy very much. Other than physical training, I spend a lot of time study and research. So far, I believe I had spend about 3500-4500hours on study and researches. I train 3 times a week/ 3x4Hours in Gym. All together I should have put in about 5000Hours for the art.
It's me again. 6 months later. My mindset has evolved once again. I can hang with purples. Even if still blue, the instructor has set the main major element for belt stripes and promotions: evolution, improvements. For each stripe or belt he awards, the word of improvements is cited several times. Better, he disregard how many times you can submit so and so. He observes the technical development. It's crazy how my technical skill set has skyrocketed. There is so much to say, I'll hold it right there. I just love to be captivated by BJJ, and admire the landscape rather then knowing when I'll get to a destination. My new moto is worth giving attention to: I can now technically maul, smash submit most white belts, technically guard pass and get dominant move on bottom vs my blue belt peers (no longer getting crush on bottom as opposed to 6 months ago), and can hang with purples and browns. I am a much better blue belt than expected 3, 6 or 12 months ago and this new schools has helped me to exploit and optimize my grappling game...Cause its really what it is, a game, or should I say: my 10 000 puzzle game to assemble.
This is a topic that is unique with jiu-jitsu, I go off of the ability for an individual to apply the knowledge appropriately during rolling. When I test for rank I don't expect you to win every roll but just survive and transition to positions dominantly. The submissions are the end goal... , each rank lvl has a certain prowess of application to get to the end goal of submission(s).
Just an update: some police and fire department women complete the same physical fitness test as men. There is no change is the time requirement, course adjustment or dummy drag weight. I am current female police officer. I had to drag the same 175 dummy as the men with no adjustments. I’m 110 pounds . Btw I love your content.
I respectfully disagree with the premise of the argument. The myth is that Helio Gracie was small and frail but learn to maximize leverage to make the techniques work for him. Supposedly he could not even go to school or do pushups. If that is the case that Gracie jiu jitsu is based on the capability of a small frail man then the physicality part of the formula shouldn't really be a factor at all. If someone can execute the techniques of the curriculum intelligently and fluently then they should be promoted. Of course someone in their forties on up will have less physicality than someone in their twenties. Of course someone that is small whether they be male or female will be at less imposing than someone tall and large. The purpose of Helio Gracie jujitsu is for the smaller weaker person to be able to defend themselves against a larger untrained person. That should be the measure of being awarded a belt. Of course at the higher ranks being able to teach and communicate that information and the perfection of curriculum techniques. Given how the standards of bell promotion have changed over the last few decades even Helio Gracie himself may not have been able to earn a black belt in many of his own children's schools.
People should be ranked on their ability to perform the techniques taught and ability to teach the techniques learned for their respective sizes. Remember, we are learning an art. Nobody can escape father time, so nobody should ever be demoted.
I’ve had my blue belt for over 10 years as I’ve been training on and off due to injuries and life’s BS. I’m just glad to be able to get back on the mats soon due to Covid and having cancer.
I'm 58 and just started a couple months back, love it so much. I was a brown belt in Karate years ago, yes doesn't compare to BJJ, no disrespect to Karate. May compete someday, would love to. Funny how BJJ is always on my mind...learning...thank you for your perspective on this topic, makes sense, nothing should be given, only earned.
I’ve had a similar conversation with Prof. Ryan a while back and this reminded me of it. I asked about a small framed practitioner who is actually missing the majority of one entire limb who posted photos being promoted to purple or perhaps brown belt. I questioned whether that person could actually perform to the same level as an average man or woman with all 4 functioning limbs and whether that person could actually attain the rank of black belt legitimately. My understanding of our conversation was that when you start training, regardless of age, if you’re capable of performing all the required techniques and learning all the required concepts for each rank, you have the possibility of earning that particular rank. There are subjective requirements such as mental toughness, refusal to quit, dedication, maturity, etc that each professor uses as well. If you start late and can’t grasp the concepts or perform the basic curriculum at White belt level all the way to black belt level, then you’re not likely to attain the different ranks. With no set standards in Brazilian or Gracie Jiu Jitsu, it all comes down to the affiliate organization or instructor to decide whether a student can or cannot attain a particular belt rank. With that being said, we discussed black belts and the understanding there is that if you earned it at some point, you don’t get demoted. You attained the requisite knowledge and performed at that level at some point based on your instructor’s requirements.
@@KamaJiuJitsu Definition I found - Essentially, Boyd belt is an idea that for every 20 pounds someone has over you, they are assumed to be one belt higher. For instance, if you are a 160-pound blue belt and grapple with a 200-pound blue belt, the weight advantage they will have over you will be the same as having a brown belt over you. I have also heard this apply to age difference as well. I could not say how well this concept holds up. As a 51 year old blue belt I have often subbed other blue belts half my age that are heavier and stronger. I try very hard to focus on the principles and basics so that I don't have to rely on speed and strength as much. The school I'm at is very much merit based. You don't get promoted just for time put in. Will I make it to black belt? I don't know. In the end it's not important to me. I have a ton of fun with great people that are like a second family. Thanks for the great videos. A lot of them have been very helpful.
@@KamaJiuJitsu It is a concept of objectively looking at belt rankings base on physical attributes of opponents and how strength, weight, age etc can nullify skill. Look at Rener and Ryron talking about it to get a better and fuller explanation.
Great points made - if a practitioner should never be demoted (and I do agree with this), then I do also agree that standards should be accounted for based on age and gender. We recognize these differences in tournaments. A 50 year old purple belt who weights 150 pounds doesn't compete against a 25 year old purple belt who weighs 200 pounds. So, it just make sense that grading should be based on proficiency of technique as well as sparring ability. If we adhere to traditional standards, then a 50 year old sedentary woman may never go beyond blue. What if a black belt Judoka or collegiate wrestler started BJJ.. would they get their blue or purple belt after a few months of training because they can dominate rolls? I'd say no because they still haven't gotten high level of proficiency in BJJ.
It never occurred to me I might be awarded any "little old man" version of a belt. I don't want one. Whatever belt I earn, I want it to be legit, with no reservations. I hesitated to set belt goals for myself when I started training about 1 year ago. I believe blue is achievable for me, and I would be ecstatic if I ever earned a purple belt. So far every purple belt I've rolled with has felt like a total ubber-ninja-badass to me. No, they don't totally smash me, but it feels like they could effortlessly do anything and stop me from doing anything if they wanted to. Blue belts still dominate me, but it feels like I'm making them work to do it.
you make a great point. when visiting other gyms, better to be "under" ranked, than "over" ranked. we've had several overranked individuals visit once, and never come back, even though we'd be a great fit for them as far as training and personally. i think that if they were more appropriately ranked from the get go, things may have ended up differently. and this was overranked taking into account size/age/years training... not matching an over ranked small old guy with an under ranked big young guy.
Ryan, Im usually in agreement with you but not this time. What if Im a 48 year old white belt or blue belt who has trained for 2 years, who doesnt have any character issues and beats everyone (blue, purple, brown belt) at my gym including all but 1 brown belt. Should I get the brown belt automatically, no of course not. But now if ive been training for 8 years and am now 56 years and my health isnt what it was , should I not be able to get my brown belt at that time because I cant beat a blue belt, again no. If A person is older and knows jiujitsu very well but you wont promote them because of physicality that isnt cool at all. He could be a great teacher and absolutely should get that black belt if he put the time and effort in to get it regardless of his physicality.
I'm a 48 year old 4 stripe white belt. I like this way of viewing promotions. My goal is not necessarily to be a black belt (although it would be nice) it's just to enjoy training, Learn as much as I can and see where it takes me. If I don't get there then so be it but I won't stop training while ever I'm physically capable. I've just been promoted 2 stripes at once and I've an awful complex about whether I deserve to be a 4 stripe or not. But I have to trust my instructors that I'm ready. If I max out at blue or purple then I'm fine with that.
I think I agree with you. As someone who started after 50 I would not want any bs promos and would hope to max out at my potential, wherever that is. Multiple scales is ridiculous.
I am a 51 yo white belt training 8 mos. got destroyed in my first tournament went up against early 30 yos as no one my age to compete against. My goal is not to achieve black belt but rather enjoy the journey and the art. I presume my career will end when I suffer an injury that will just sideline me forever. My goals are to be able to compete/roll with the other practitioners and hold my own and to continue to see improvement in myself. I would also like to compete in tournaments more but again only so long as I can compete and not embarrass myself or gym. As far as demoting a black belt you must keep in mind they at one time competed at that level and can still have the metal experience to pass on as well as the knowledge even if the body doesn't work as well. With this said please don't be the one to sideline me forever.
I'm almost 45. Been doing bjj a couple of months and I don't want a blue belt if I'm not being held to the same standard as a young man. If I never get it, I never get it.
I belt based upon a set of flexible standards. I give adaptations of movements with choices. I have seen many moves done differently for different body types, ages, disabilities, and genders. In my opinion, the black belt will never be consistent for everyone because people are simply not the same. I think the job of the instructor is to just see the possible paths and help the student down the path.
So Jiu-Jitsu is flexible in it’s required concepts and skill sets? It’s not a fixed set of skills practitioners need to do (escape mount/seatbelt/cross side/side mount/seatbelt/knee on belly/guard/etc, execute chokes/joint locks/etc)? That’s what we’re presented with as a dilemma.
@@KamaJiuJitsu Flexible standards or flexibility within the required standards. Example: Pitchers can pitch a fastball, but not every pitcher has a great knuckleball, but yet they can be pitchers. Also, I think that the purple belt is the expert level of the BJJ technique and that the brown and black belt are the instructor/supervisory belts. Don't get me wrong the brown and black belt will be more efficient than a purple belt, but the teaching skills should really be enhanced. If a purple belt is made in a school through BJJ flexible standards and she is willing to teach then that person is able to be a black belt.
Gotcha. Speaking of pitchers, isn’t the ultimate goal of a success pitcher to strike out batters? To me, i strikeout is the equivalent of a submission.
I started late. I've excepted the fact there's a very real possibility I'll never get to black belt level. I'd rather "retire" or die at an earned purple belt level than a handed-out black belt.
My understanding is that back in the early years, there were only 3 belts in Gracie Jiu-Jitsu white, light blue and navy blue...if one were just keep that in mind, focus on developing skills and not concern themselves with promotions...they will always grow in their Jiu-Jitsu journey regardless of age, sex or physicality...
Hi Ryan if you go and roll with a 23 year old black belt at a top school such as Atos or Art of Jiu Jitsu would keep the black belt level then ? everything is relative
What if you start at 45 and at 55 you are at the same level of 55 years old black belt, but you can't pass the test because of your age. Also the 55 years old black belt couldn't pass the test he passed in his 20s or 30s.
surely knowledge, technical understanding, mentoring and being a role model for a gym has value and earns a black belt over time. I don't believe age prevents grading otherwise people would be denoted or have to give up BJJ as they age. Surely having years in the mat (experience) and being able to pass that down to the next generation is one of the major roles of the black belt. I guess it all depends what the gym you attend values, if it's medals and competition then there is no longevity in that for anyone.
You may expect a promotion; but you can only accept a promotion. It all is on the scale of the professor / teacher to promote the art. As a professor you protect the art and your students. Work hard show good citizenship be a good classmate and student. Promotions will follow. Rule number one don't ask when you're being promoted ask what you can do better or what is required then do it.
In my case, the things I've gained through BJJ are more valuable than rank. I do honor and respect the rank I've earned (4s Blue belt), but its not my main focus. I turn 50 end of December, and have learned what I need to do to stay on the mats long term.
I want to start training but I don't care about being rewarded a belt unless there are some perks I don't know about after receiving a belt. I just want to learn and keep getting better.
There's also the opposite problem. What if you hv an extreme world class athlete like Jon Jones, who's physical skill and athletic level is so high that even with little knowledge they beat higher belts. Is he really a purple, brown or black belt without the thorough knowledge. How much does technical knowledge play into it as much as ability in getting a Black Belt?
It just goes to show, that good grappling is simply good grappling. There is a ton of overlap between the grappling disciplines. But there are nuances between each art that differentiate one from another. But, since there are so many similarities, it would not take someone who is experienced in one art, to master another art.
In theory, I agree with the curriculum concept for BJJ. The organization and structure is helpful for learning. But I can't help but wonder what room is left for an instructor to consider the development, personal growth, and character of each student as it relates to promotions. Very complex issue to grapple with (pun intended, lol), and we may never have a definitive answer. Thanks for another good video Professor Ryan.
According to this thinking, there should be an absolute standard for everyone to earn a belt. This seems to imply there should be an absolute standard to maintain that belt level. However, if that were true, then that would mean that as bjj students get older and lose physical abilities to maintain the belt they are at, they would be demoted to lower belts. But, this doesn’t happen, which implies that there is a knowledge factor to belt level, aside from the physical abilities.
Wrong. If you earn a college degree when you’re young, you keep it. If you earn a championship when you’re young, you keep the medal. If you earn a title when you’re young, you keep it. Michael Schumacher earned 7 world titles when he was young, he keeps them even though he can no longer walk, let alone drive a car today. If you earn a black belt when you’re young, you keep it. If you try anything at an advanced age that people typically earn when in their younger years, then… Well, you know the rest.
@@KamaJiuJitsu Actually, your college degree analogy might be better. Maybe getting a black belt at an older age is like getting an honorary college degree, which uses broader criteria to give that degree.
That’s a great example. The honorary college degree, I’ve always thought to be BS. Here’s the thing… 1) an honorary degree is usually given to a celebrity who hasn’t gone through the rigors to earn an actual degree from that university. Maybe he gave the college a significant amount of money or notoriety or used his personal influence to greatly help the university. Regular Degree holders who toiled through the curriculum and paid the money know it’s BS, too. If the honorary degree comes with “a parchment,” it is (likely) not worded the same as an ordinary degree, either, I’m thinking. 2) people who are candidates for a BB want to EARN a BJJ black belt; not be GIVEN a BB. 3) with earning a BB, comes the PRIVILEGE of representing the organization (or Professor) by opening their own independent academy teaching BJJ. 4) let’s say the professor wants to validate the student’s effort over the years with SOMETHING, but doesn’t feel he will teach/represent the art to its fullest potential, should he instead award a “consolation” black belt of sorts err, an “honorary” black(ish) belt? How does one do that in a way that’s acceptable and not an insult to the student AND to the other past, present, and future black belts who earned the black belt without “buying” it? I just ask because I know of a “black belt” who only took privates (never went through the grind training in group classes) from a BJJ red/white belt master who awarded purple belts to students who were far from ready to wear the belt?
I'm back. Now 51. Still blue belt. I left this academy cause I notice the 3 guys who got selected for their purple. Technique, time showing up and strength. When we notice the criterias, a few of us left cause the strength factor is what we cant keep. Those 3 guys, 30ish, are f&%$ strong, and the instructor never even looked at me and other students for their next belts. I think there is an age for certain BJJ belts, and I wouldnt be happy to earn the bjj black at 60 if young guys would kick my butt each week. The new school I joined told me they consider the age factor and strength isnt a major standard for belting. I like that.
I am a 43 year old woman, blue belt, and I disagree with the old notion of not allowing women to progress after purple. I personally don’t want to get my black belt unless I can tap out every person in my gym, or at least give any of the male black belts a hard time and not get submitted! If my physical limitations stop me at purple, then I would accept that. but there are plenty of women who kick ass, and deserve a black belt. I guarantee that the current leading female black belts in competition could stand their ground with most men in their weight class.
You have exactly the correct mindset! However, try to keep your expectations reasonable. Expecting to get your black belt only if you tap out every single person in the gym, might be a little unrealistic. It doesn’t take that to earn a black belt. It’s really a combination of factors, proficiency in the art being just one of them. Of course, it’s up to your professor what you are required to qualify with.
Unpopular opinion. I personally think with a performance-based art like Gracie JJ, the whole belt system should just be dispensed with. Just like in Muay Thai or Fencing. Practitioner, Athlete or Coach.
I think you touched a very improtant and delicate issue! I agree with the fireman-lady, I had a similar issue when being in the military, my unite "bent" the rules of the unit and allowed women to be part of it, which created the same issue - they(women) could not carry as much as we did, as for a fact, more so it created hate and resentment due to the fact the we (including me) were commanded to help and carry things for them due to the lack of strength!
I don’t know man, I think you need to stress test some of your assumptions and criteria a bit more. It seems you are arguing that the limiting factor really is about physicality, strength, being able to “defend” that black belt. Well, if that’s true, a heavyweight gold medalist Olympic wrestler would automatically be a jiu jitsu black belt, right? An Olympiad at that skill level could wreck the average teaching black belt, without knowing a lick of jiu jitsu. Age also isn’t the limiting factor when it comes to your black belt. You don’t lose your belt when you hit fifty and get rolled by an up and coming monster. If you, science forbid, have a serious injury or illness that takes you out of the game permanently, you don’t lose your belt. Its more than just physical, more than just being able to dominate on the mats. There’s a blend of the physical and skill, but also knowledge, that combine to give the ranks meaning. I don’t know what the exact blend is, that’s above my pay grade, but I do know that there is a blend
You might not be a able to slam dunk a basketball, but there are many NBA players who can’t dunk either and are still considered professionals and valuable to the team. I think coaches should be more like talent scouts who look for different skill sets, not just the strong big man game. I think a lot coaches overlook the small weaker man/women/ handicap game. A game where a person can develop just off his/her back and still lockdown another black belt’s game. Because at a certain age the “get on top, stay on top” game can be tough and impossible as you get older.
Curious... do you then have different scales for small men and large men? and if not why not? A 140lb man might struggle to squat the same weight as a 250lb man?
If someone received their black belt at age 30 and then 30 years later they can no longer perform at the black belt level, should they still be able to wear their black belt?
So someone who has a current ailment can’t get to black belt? Ihope your academy is more upfront on your expectations now having your experience with your older student you reference in your video.
As an old guy, I do not want nor expect anything given to me. I would rather earn it. I also realize that I will plateau and then start declining in ability.
I'm 65 here and 41 years in another Martial art where when I was much younger was extremely competitive and won competitions against many different styles of Martial Arts but about a little over ayear ago I began training BJJ. I have no problem being a white belt as it's a different style, what I do have a problem with is the arrogance and ignorance I see that is prevalent in BJJ. It's a shame that so many do not respect knowledge when compared to muscle and speed. I am not looking for a handout for anything however if someones trains in BJJ for 10 to 15 years consistently in their old age, has the knowledge to show someone a technique and still can roll some then it is a shame just because of their physical ability to hold them back because of their age or gender. Fighting of any style is a chess game and without the knowledge of your tools you do not deserve a rank just because of your age or strength. One factor that plays in is the fact that the gym or competition has rules you have to go by when rolling. In real life , determination and knowledge with the ability to use technigues you aren't allowed to in competition or the gym. Using the system of only the young, fast, and strong survive to get their Black Belt is irrational because who are you going to compare that to? Using that grading one could say that only Olympic athelites, or say the top three or four Professional fighters in the World should be Black Belts. A Black Belt means you know what to do, how to do, and when to do in a given situation according to your ability. In a few years will BB level in BJJ be only given to those that can perform the fancy new modified flipping, jumping, and flying techniques that were NEVER used until the past few years? Of course the way it is now the longer you can keep someone at a lower rank regardless of thier ability and you have brainwashed them to accepting that because they aren't World class athletes then the more money you can milk out of them until they die. I've seen this in some other Martial Arts also but I also have seen the Mentality of the direction BJJ is taking that only Strong, fast, young without knowledge are promoted over people with better and more Knowledgable skills. Everyone talks about controlling ego and all I am seeing here is ego of youth. I sure hope you guys get it figured out as for me I'll just float along and learn everything I can to add to my tools I already know. Again I am 65, I have a severly screwed up back that should have surgery, I have had 4 shoulder repairs and should have a reverse replacement of one of them now, I just had a hip replacement, I have a broken wrist I probably should have fixed one day , and I have three vertebrae in my neck fused from a broken neck many years ago. I don't expect I will ever live long enough to achieve a BB in BJJ as I still have a shopping list of surgeries to go but I'll be damned if I am going to give up because you guys can't get your crap together and get over whatever prejudice and eliteism you have built up in your minds. Geeze reading some of these comments makes me realize it's not just a few styles of Martial arts that have problems but dang near every one of them. I'm truly not sure which is worse in this World any more ego or attitude. I guess as I get older I see the World in a different light, my car's prettier than your car so you aren't as good as me. Such a shame. Yeah, I know, blast away, I'm a lot older , weaker, and slower . But I'm still here. I also have an awesome place to train and awesome instructors who understand I have injuries so we try to figure out what an old crippled guy can do and I thank and respect them for it.😂😂😂😂😂😂
Yeah, I think I echo the thoughts of similar people below. I am 72, a 4=stripe blue belt, and just got absolutely smashed in my first blue belt competition. My coach said not to worry, he'd find me older guys to compete with. I told him to...not to...for me BJJ belts reflect skill levels not age levels. I can't get younger but I can get better, so I'll get a purple belt when I can smash most blue belts. But...I think that is fine only if you see BJJ in absolute - practical - terms. As a sport then maybe distinctions should be made, for size, age, gender etc. Depends on what you want.
ok so why dont people get their belts taken away when they get older? is it a trophy then? Im 40. Say I bust my ass for 10 years and get my black belt at 50. But by 60 Im getting pretty fucked up and cant do 1/2 the moves anymore. I lose my belt? The reality is an older person may not be able to hit a move in sparring or a match, but do they know it? Can they demonstrate it in a flow roll? In a drill? That being said, even a blue belt is an enormous achievement and something anyone should be proud of.
I like wrestling as there are no belts. But let's just develop the concept further that belts matter. So what happens when the young buck who gets his black belt at 35 later turns 60+ and can't perform on the mat and loses now consistently to new blue bwlts. Do you take it away as they do not represent what a black belts stands for. Or does the black belt represent more than just rolling?
So my thoughts are this, and by no means do they matter at all. Your belt and the color of it only cover ~2 inches of your back. The color of your belt matter but that should not be the reason you are going, studying and practicing Jiu Jitsu. I am 44 and have my blue belt. If I never advance in my belt color, I am personally ok with that, but if my Jiu jitsu never advances that will be what I would have a problem with. Stop worrying about the belt, worry about the Jiu Jitsu.
So if a person earns a belt and can no longer demonstrate or perform like they once did should it be taken back? I know a couple of black belts who were once monsters but due to one reason or another just aren't anymore. They still have the knowledge but can't perform like they did. Knowledge and performance are two different things in my opinion. Just following the thought process to its end.
If he earned it, he can’t lose it. The point of the video, which some miss (including you, it seems), is warning it in the first place, not should it be taken away from you once you “age out” of training hard.
There shouldn't be a scale for age. It should be based on the individuals ability. Even at the BB level there are all levels of BBs, even in the sam degree. This is true for all martial arts.
It should all just be measured according to one's own physical potential. Why is that so hard?According to the viewpoint in this video, someone with a physical handicap is fundamentally glass ceiling'ed in BJJ.
So why don’t some of the old grey heads in BJJ take off the black belt because they cannot keep up or preform techniques they could do at a younger age?
Black belt mastered the art, can effectively perform it and pass it to the others. By definition it means that this black belt person NO MATTER THE AGE OR GENDER is supposed to beat the majority of practicioners. Of course there will be occasions with competetive athletic purple belt beat black belt guys of age. But that it is not about BJJ. A young boxer will beat a retired boxer. That does not imply that the retired one LOST all of his skills. He just cannot participate in professional sport which require NOT ONLY skill.
I think every black belt will get to the age where they can’t perform the technique on a younger person. I think accumulated knowledge should be a factor.
@@KamaJiuJitsu nothing, that's the point. What has changed however is the recognition by society that physical capability is more complex than whether a person has a penis or vagina.
49 here. 3 years in the gi (blue), and 15 more years (nogi), just and only a few decades in other striking combat sports. I've exceled and became among the best in most combat sports, but BJJ is the art where I am no longer among the best. But you know what ? I dont care, I just love to earn one technique at a time, and earn each technique rather than earning belts.
🤷♂️ I ad lib everything and have no pre-written script. So what comes out, comes out. I never intend to insult people. But if people get insulted by what I say or how I say it, whatever, that’s their prerogative.
I feel that this is unfair as promotions should be based on an individual bring compared to his or her former performance when it is time to consider a promotion. There is no one size fits all for belts. People are different. Jiujitsu should treat all as equals and if u make the effort, learn the skills on the mat, learn to teach them, and similar when your sensei feels u deserve a promotion that should be adequate.
But a “black belt” is a black belt, is it not? What if you’re the person looking for a BJJ school to learn at but the black belt who owns the school is not on par with the average black belt because they were awarded the black belt based on your criteria above. Would that be fair to you if they charged you the same as the other black belt down the street, knowing nothing else? Well, he DID try his best, didn’t/couldn’t learn everything because he was physically unable to do the techniques BUT he did try really hard and showed up for classes all the time. He because best person HE could be, but doesn’t have the same acumen as others he learned with. I dunno. I’m just asking.
Its subjective is the bottom line. If you are competing and doing well at your age /weight that is extra evidence that can be taken into consideration. I think if a person puts in the time and does well at their age weight, they should expect to be promoted. I would take my business elsewhere if my professor didn’t have that same mindset. Comparing a 24 year old practitioner to a 54 year old practitioner of similar experience level is still apples to oranges.
Are there objective standards to judge by? For example, x percent of practitioners demonstrate a certain skill which places them in their belt standing. The participant must be proficient in sparring with the majority of opponents regardless of size. Perhaps that is not realistic and weight classes may be more appropriate.
There are a lot of contradictory examples you have laid out sir. Helio wasn't he "frail" and he got his red belt? Now if a older person starts Jiu jitsu along side a 20 year old he is not as strong or fast or as conditioned. Yet they attend the same amount of time. The elder knows the same technique and knows how to apply it. As well as the younger trainee. Now if the younger trainee beats the elder during rolling is the younger trainee a higher belt or just younger and more athletic? So now if that older gentleman has been training for 10 years diligently is he capable of applying his techniques at a black belt level? I am sure he can. Isn't BJJ/GJJ supposed to be all about technique? Not about brute strength or athletic ability. So do you think that if that older man or woman would roll with a newbie would he not out technique them? Or any average Joe. Your analogy of you going to the NBA and making it ? Really? That is a elite exclusive level. Maybe 350 humans make it to the NBA. That is way elite, you can find 300 black belts in L.A. F1 pilots there are only 20 in the world. Those sports are for the best of the best athletes. Like track and field etc etc. Jiu jitsu especially Gracie Jiu jitsu you know the self defense Jiu jitsu that you always mention to put down sport Jiu jitsu and Rave about Rickson it is not only for elite athletes. It's the contrary it is for the weak to be able to defend themselves. So when you mentioned that if an older guy gets a black belt being older he has trained for 10 years and you questioned is he really a black belt? Ok so if you roll with Roger, Marcelo García, Galvao, Rener, Ryron, Gordon Ryan etc etc . You get crushed so I ask you , are you really aBlack Belt?
As a 63 year old, blue belt in both jiu jitsu, and judo, if your training for just belt promotion, you have the wrong mindset. My goal is black belt in both. But I don’t want some sympathy belt, if I don’t earn it I don’t want it.
The training, rolling, learning, personnel growth, and comraderie is what it’s all about.
👍
I am 48 y/o and started the same day with a fellow student who is 23 y/o. I had no expectation that I would earn my belt the same time he did. However, I was more than happy to go at my old man pace. He earned his blue belt in 18 months. I did it in 28 months (about 2 months ago). My gym-mate is his on his way to purple soon and will likely get to brown before I make it to purple. He has time to compete more, train more, and his recovery time is much quicker. I am so happy for him but also I am focused on my goals and what I need to do as a man who will be in my 50's seeking to earn a purple belt. Anything after purple is by God's grace because I am defying time and the average data on physiology. So at my age, I don't train for the belts, I train for the love of the arts (I have black belts in two karate styles), to stay in shape, and to hopefully teach the next generation. As always Ryan, thanks for your knowledge, insight, and wisdom.
Thank you for your thoughtful comment.
Having earned black belts in Karate in your younger years, you have a unique perspective that people coming in at your age but with no martial arts experience just don’t have.
Congratulations on your blue belt!
👏👏
Im in the same boat as you (same age, same belt) with the same mentality. I just show up, try to soak in as much as i can, try to connect some dots, and try to get better at something every day. Keep repeating that process in all aspects of life and I will be bond to be better than i was prior. I just need to listen to my body to know what moves I should do and not (inversions being some im not gonna do competitively) and know when i need to rest my body. The belt is a nice measure but not why I do it.
Someone else's theory on this was that black belt just means a person has maxed out their individual potential in jiu jitsu. I like that system better than it being an absolute level.
How do they medal women in olympic, and how do they medla paralimpic handicap athletes ? How do they medals seniors and all that...I dont think its should be an issue nowadays.
That's a huge thing in Jiu-jitsu, there are no real standards and rank is largely subjective. I'm a brown belt who has been training for 20 years. I can hang just fine with some black belts and I have been destroyed by some brown belts. I think it really comes down to this: If you have a good instructor with a respected linage and they promote you to a certain belt, in their eyes you earned it.
I am a 60 years old III stripe white belt. I earned every stripe. No free lunch.I train 4 x weekly. What gives me an advantage over the much younger guys is extreme mental toughness and perseverance. My back and neck are sore daily!
Keep it up as long as you enjoy it like you do!
Good on you man! I'm a spry 46 (lol) and my neck and back are also sore daily. Like they say, "Old age and treachery will overcome youth and skill."
Kudos to you man. I'm closing in on 60 but only train 2x most weeks. The weeks I do manage 3x or 4x, and maybe roll at an open may are very satisfying, but I feel totally wrecked for a couple weeks after and dial it back for a while.
@@KamaJiuJitsu I learn a lot from your channel. Thank you.
Respect ✊
Ryan, I have cerebral palsy and I’m 52. I recently started back at BJJ. I asked my instructor if I should put my white belt on. He said you earned your rank. We have to remember it’s not about the belt. It’s about what can you can get out of it. For me it’s the small victories. Example doing a move you couldn’t do before or modifying a move that works for me. My instructor says it makes him think of moves in different way and it makes him a better instructor.
Exactly. We call that “workarounds” here.
I agree. My flexibility is limited in some areas due to being older and having had a hio replacement but my Sensei is always ready to show me a different way to do a technique or an alternate related technique that works for me when I ask him. This is the mark of an excellent, caring Sensei.
So if you live to be 78 years old and your physical skills decline does that mean you should be demoted to the level that you fight against a 30 year old black belt?
Yes...i was thinking the same thing.... not all black belts are the same
I was thinking exactly the same thing. There's also different skill levels at black belt. If your a black belt and get beaten by Roger Gracie (which most will) do you get demoted to brown? I get what he's saying but don't really agree. You can't compare a woman fire fighter to your 30,40, 50 + jiu-jitsu person. For one thing he's comparing saving someone's life with someone on a journey of self improvement. Isn't that what martial arts is about? Earning belts is a way of acknowledging that in my books. I'm a 52 year old brown belt and I've had trouble with the odd 20 year old purple belt, who also competes in MMA but on the whole I more than hold my own with the majority of youngsters I come up against. I'm confident of defending my self against almost anyone who has no jiu-jitsu. Can't say the same for alot of other 52 year olds.
I don’t think you should ever get demoted.
This is a fair point and a good question. But ultimately I don't think it is persuasive. In this hypothetical scenario, a 78-year old Ryan Young is still a black belt and should not be demoted because even though his skills would have declined significantly by that time, he legitimately earned and demonstrated the mastery of jiu jitsu necessary to hold a black belt at one point in his jiu jitsu journey. That is completely different than a 60 year old who makes it to purple or brown, but because he started practicing BJJ late in life, his physical condition diminished before he had the ability to demonstrate black belt level mastery. It's easy to see a scenario where a black or brown belt gets to an age and condition in life where he or she will begin to struggle when rolling with younger, stronger (and lower ranked) people. Maybe even lose with increasing frequency. But they should not be demoted because we should respect the fact that they earned their rank. I will say with respect to the gender issue however, I don't agree with the idea that there should be a blanket rule against all women achieving black belt. Belts don't see gender. If a woman is a black belt, it will show (and yes even perhaps against male black belts). It may be more rare and a tougher challenge to achieve, but certainly not a conceptual impossibility.
This kind of already is done though. Don’t old black belts get promoted/demoted to coral or red belt or the like? It’s a similar idea.
Professor Ryan - You’re suggesting that in order to be a legit black belt, you must be competitive against a prototypical black belt, but without describing your idea of a prototypical black belt, you cannot expect your audience to follow your point. Please explain the standards by which you gauge black belts so we can have a clearer understanding of your point.
The point of the video, is it’s a topic that will never really be resolved.
The thought, is that ANYONE who exhibits the necessary skill levels to execute the concepts, will be in a position to “earn rank.”
No matter the age or gender.
Yeah, we know.
I think a dedicated path, that is why I came yesterday and plan to come back. To me the belt doesn't matter just the skill.
I dont think no merit based promotions are good long term. My son did TKD and outperformed some higher belts
I get athletic ability but he didn't even block shots. This made me end after his period. I'll never be as fit as ppl my age and me capping g out is ok if I don't meet the requirement not a perception.
I am a woman, not physically fit in traditional standards, and started BJJ at 52, and got 6 weeks into it, then covid hit. I'm 53 now and started up again, another 6 weeks. My biggest struggle is balance. I know i will continue to get better. And the others at the gym are very encouraging and don't treat me like I'm old, just new :)
Keep it up!!!
Haha, you started at an age 10 years younger than me.👍
I also believe in the Boyd Philosophy of the Gracies.
Well put. I'd like to add that students tend to have two belts, the belt level of their knowledge and the belt level of their competition game.
That’s a great thought.
Ryan you know me, I’ve been training for 11 years now and after 4 years as a purple belt and a school owner feel that there are other aspects to being a black belt besides your performance on the mats. Just as some Black Belts are great instructors and suck at competition and vise versa, I’ve been blessed to have been able to be successful at both and at 53 now I rather be evaluated by my ability to teach not perform.
Well said. I’m 52 and it never entered my mind that I could get “old man credit” in Jiu Jitsu, Muay Thai or anything else that I attempt. If I can’t earn it then I don’t deserve it.
GM Helio Gracie himself said that the belt was about the ability to teach.
Why would you penalize an older BJJ practitioner who is technically proficient in BJJ techniques but can't keep up with someone half their age or much stronger than them? That's like judging a fish on its ability to climb a tree.
Penalize? How?
@@KamaJiuJitsu - By rewarding youth and strength over technical proficiency?
You didn’t watch the whole video.
I appreciate your honesty. I’m 54, three striped white, bell, and just you should be enjoying my progress. I may or may not ever attain black belt. But hopefully I’ll be able to protect myself and my family as I move on.
I have to agree on all points Professor Ryan said. There’s no easy answer, but if you are middle aged (I’m 57, smallish 160lbs, 5 1/2 year BB) and you are “serious” I’ll be honest and say you really have to be fully absorbed in to this lifestyle, because it really is one. The constant thought and search for technical perfection, deep conceptual understanding, bio-mechanical leverage mastery, constant flexibility training, nutritional supplements, healthy eating, alcohol abstinence (I’m my case) S & C, and therapeutic self-care for structural wellness and continued high mobility has to become you. I can’t deliver the goods in the way the 37 year old tall, athletic and accomplished head instructor at my school can, but it’s my responsibility to be as much trouble as I can for everyone with minimal concessions for myself, because I’m not given breaks (nor would I want any). I personally would have been happy to remain a purple belt way back in my mid 40’s if I couldn’t physically do enough moves to expand my technicality or execute certain strategies. I believe however everybody type, complete with its own limitations can be uniquely tuned to develop a specific game that can be applied on just about anyone, but you need a creative, improvisational mindset.
I am 57yrs old and I have just started judo. I completely agree that a black belt has to be earned..no exceptions. I agree with everything you say apart from one point. The problem is if a 90yr old has had a black belt for 40 yrs but keeps being beaten by purple belts do we say that this is an old man credit too or do we just respect his prior accomplishment. A black belt is a standard to reach and that in my view is non negotiable but over time the skill and strength level of everyone will diminish...then respect for knowledge kicks in. Judo deals with this synthesis in a very clever way. There is a black belt for fighting and there is a technical black belt. Many of the technical black belts are amazing and gifted teachers who make a significant contribution to the art. I feel this is a good balance. Really thought provoking video. Thank you.
I totally agree. Brazilian jujutsu belt system isn't about attendance alone. It tells everyone what you're capable of. It's contraversial but I also agree with Grand Master Helio grading woman no further than purple. It doesn't mean I have less respect for all woman that have been promoted past purple at all -- I also won't delude myself into believing woman physically are capable of more than men in most conditions involving jujutsu
I started Jiu-Jitsu at age 62, now 66 with 16 Months blue belt. I train Jiu-Jitsu for Loving the art of the sport. I enjoy very much. Other than physical training, I spend a lot of time study and research. So far, I believe I had spend about 3500-4500hours on study and researches. I train 3 times a week/ 3x4Hours in Gym. All together I should have put in about 5000Hours for the art.
It's me again. 6 months later. My mindset has evolved once again. I can hang with purples. Even if still blue, the instructor has set the main major element for belt stripes and promotions: evolution, improvements. For each stripe or belt he awards, the word of improvements is cited several times. Better, he disregard how many times you can submit so and so. He observes the technical development.
It's crazy how my technical skill set has skyrocketed. There is so much to say, I'll hold it right there. I just love to be captivated by BJJ, and admire the landscape rather then knowing when I'll get to a destination. My new moto is worth giving attention to: I can now technically maul, smash submit most white belts, technically guard pass and get dominant move on bottom vs my blue belt peers (no longer getting crush on bottom as opposed to 6 months ago), and can hang with purples and browns.
I am a much better blue belt than expected 3, 6 or 12 months ago and this new schools has helped me to exploit and optimize my grappling game...Cause its really what it is, a game, or should I say: my 10 000 puzzle game to assemble.
This is a topic that is unique with jiu-jitsu, I go off of the ability for an individual to apply the knowledge appropriately during rolling. When I test for rank I don't expect you to win every roll but just survive and transition to positions dominantly. The submissions are the end goal... , each rank lvl has a certain prowess of application to get to the end goal of submission(s).
Well this is truth and screw anybody who don't like it
Just an update: some police and fire department women complete the same physical fitness test as men. There is no change is the time requirement, course adjustment or dummy drag weight. I am current female police officer. I had to drag the same 175 dummy as the men with no adjustments. I’m 110 pounds .
Btw I love your content.
Thank you!
And, I admire you for doing what you do!
I respectfully disagree with the premise of the argument. The myth is that Helio Gracie was small and frail but learn to maximize leverage to make the techniques work for him. Supposedly he could not even go to school or do pushups. If that is the case that Gracie jiu jitsu is based on the capability of a small frail man then the physicality part of the formula shouldn't really be a factor at all. If someone can execute the techniques of the curriculum intelligently and fluently then they should be promoted. Of course someone in their forties on up will have less physicality than someone in their twenties. Of course someone that is small whether they be male or female will be at less imposing than someone tall and large. The purpose of Helio Gracie jujitsu is for the smaller weaker person to be able to defend themselves against a larger untrained person. That should be the measure of being awarded a belt. Of course at the higher ranks being able to teach and communicate that information and the perfection of curriculum techniques.
Given how the standards of bell promotion have changed over the last few decades even Helio Gracie himself may not have been able to earn a black belt in many of his own children's schools.
People should be ranked on their ability to perform the techniques taught and ability to teach the techniques learned for their respective sizes.
Remember, we are learning an art.
Nobody can escape father time, so nobody should ever be demoted.
I’ve had my blue belt for over 10 years as I’ve been training on and off due to injuries and life’s BS. I’m just glad to be able to get back on the mats soon due to Covid and having cancer.
I'm 58 and just started a couple months back, love it so much. I was a brown belt in Karate years ago, yes doesn't compare to BJJ, no disrespect to Karate. May compete someday, would love to. Funny how BJJ is always on my mind...learning...thank you for your perspective on this topic, makes sense, nothing should be given, only earned.
I couldn’t have said it better myself.
I’ve had a similar conversation with Prof. Ryan a while back and this reminded me of it. I asked about a small framed practitioner who is actually missing the majority of one entire limb who posted photos being promoted to purple or perhaps brown belt. I questioned whether that person could actually perform to the same level as an average man or woman with all 4 functioning limbs and whether that person could actually attain the rank of black belt legitimately.
My understanding of our conversation was that when you start training, regardless of age, if you’re capable of performing all the required techniques and learning all the required concepts for each rank, you have the possibility of earning that particular rank. There are subjective requirements such as mental toughness, refusal to quit, dedication, maturity, etc that each professor uses as well.
If you start late and can’t grasp the concepts or perform the basic curriculum at White belt level all the way to black belt level, then you’re not likely to attain the different ranks.
With no set standards in Brazilian or Gracie Jiu Jitsu, it all comes down to the affiliate organization or instructor to decide whether a student can or cannot attain a particular belt rank.
With that being said, we discussed black belts and the understanding there is that if you earned it at some point, you don’t get demoted. You attained the requisite knowledge and performed at that level at some point based on your instructor’s requirements.
What about thoughts on Gracie “Boyd belt “ concept?
What’s that?
@@KamaJiuJitsu Definition I found - Essentially, Boyd belt is an idea that for every 20 pounds someone has over you, they are assumed to be one belt higher. For instance, if you are a 160-pound blue belt and grapple with a 200-pound blue belt, the weight advantage they will have over you will be the same as having a brown belt over you.
I have also heard this apply to age difference as well. I could not say how well this concept holds up. As a 51 year old blue belt I have often subbed other blue belts half my age that are heavier and stronger. I try very hard to focus on the principles and basics so that I don't have to rely on speed and strength as much.
The school I'm at is very much merit based. You don't get promoted just for time put in. Will I make it to black belt? I don't know. In the end it's not important to me. I have a ton of fun with great people that are like a second family. Thanks for the great videos. A lot of them have been very helpful.
@@KamaJiuJitsu It is a concept of objectively looking at belt rankings base on physical attributes of opponents and how strength, weight, age etc can nullify skill. Look at Rener and Ryron talking about it to get a better and fuller explanation.
@@jcarrigan3274 if there's a weight handicap, i'm a coral belt.. but seriously, a teeny tiny purple belt wipes the mat with me.
Great points made - if a practitioner should never be demoted (and I do agree with this), then I do also agree that standards should be accounted for based on age and gender. We recognize these differences in tournaments. A 50 year old purple belt who weights 150 pounds doesn't compete against a 25 year old purple belt who weighs 200 pounds. So, it just make sense that grading should be based on proficiency of technique as well as sparring ability. If we adhere to traditional standards, then a 50 year old sedentary woman may never go beyond blue. What if a black belt Judoka or collegiate wrestler started BJJ.. would they get their blue or purple belt after a few months of training because they can dominate rolls? I'd say no because they still haven't gotten high level of proficiency in BJJ.
It never occurred to me I might be awarded any "little old man" version of a belt. I don't want one. Whatever belt I earn, I want it to be legit, with no reservations.
I hesitated to set belt goals for myself when I started training about 1 year ago. I believe blue is achievable for me, and I would be ecstatic if I ever earned a purple belt.
So far every purple belt I've rolled with has felt like a total ubber-ninja-badass to me. No, they don't totally smash me, but it feels like they could effortlessly do anything and stop me from doing anything if they wanted to. Blue belts still dominate me, but it feels like I'm making them work to do it.
@Kevin Richards kinda' personal question, but I'm closer to 60 than 50, heh...
you make a great point. when visiting other gyms, better to be "under" ranked, than "over" ranked. we've had several overranked individuals visit once, and never come back, even though we'd be a great fit for them as far as training and personally. i think that if they were more appropriately ranked from the get go, things may have ended up differently. and this was overranked taking into account size/age/years training... not matching an over ranked small old guy with an under ranked big young guy.
Ryan, Im usually in agreement with you but not this time. What if Im a 48 year old white belt or blue belt who has trained for 2 years, who doesnt have any character issues and beats everyone (blue, purple, brown belt) at my gym including all but 1 brown belt. Should I get the brown belt automatically, no of course not. But now if ive been training for 8 years and am now 56 years and my health isnt what it was , should I not be able to get my brown belt at that time because I cant beat a blue belt, again no. If A person is older and knows jiujitsu very well but you wont promote them because of physicality that isnt cool at all. He could be a great teacher and absolutely should get that black belt if he put the time and effort in to get it regardless of his physicality.
We have a follow up video that will try to offer more clarity.
I'm a 48 year old 4 stripe white belt.
I like this way of viewing promotions.
My goal is not necessarily to be a black belt (although it would be nice) it's just to enjoy training, Learn as much as I can and see where it takes me. If I don't get there then so be it but I won't stop training while ever I'm physically capable. I've just been promoted 2 stripes at once and I've an awful complex about whether I deserve to be a 4 stripe or not. But I have to trust my instructors that I'm ready. If I max out at blue or purple then I'm fine with that.
I think I agree with you. As someone who started after 50 I would not want any bs promos and would hope to max out at my potential, wherever that is. Multiple scales is ridiculous.
I am a 51 yo white belt training 8 mos. got destroyed in my first tournament went up against early 30 yos as no one my age to compete against. My goal is not to achieve black belt but rather enjoy the journey and the art. I presume my career will end when I suffer an injury that will just sideline me forever. My goals are to be able to compete/roll with the other practitioners and hold my own and to continue to see improvement in myself. I would also like to compete in tournaments more but again only so long as I can compete and not embarrass myself or gym. As far as demoting a black belt you must keep in mind they at one time competed at that level and can still have the metal experience to pass on as well as the knowledge even if the body doesn't work as well. With this said please don't be the one to sideline me forever.
I'm almost 45. Been doing bjj a couple of months and I don't want a blue belt if I'm not being held to the same standard as a young man. If I never get it, I never get it.
Tell this to Al Bundy..
90 yo old bjj athlete here, every month i am being promoted .
😂
I belt based upon a set of flexible standards. I give adaptations of movements with choices. I have seen many moves done differently for different body types, ages, disabilities, and genders. In my opinion, the black belt will never be consistent for everyone because people are simply not the same. I think the job of the instructor is to just see the possible paths and help the student down the path.
So Jiu-Jitsu is flexible in it’s required concepts and skill sets? It’s not a fixed set of skills practitioners need to do (escape mount/seatbelt/cross side/side mount/seatbelt/knee on belly/guard/etc, execute chokes/joint locks/etc)?
That’s what we’re presented with as a dilemma.
@@KamaJiuJitsu Flexible standards or flexibility within the required standards. Example: Pitchers can pitch a fastball, but not every pitcher has a great knuckleball, but yet they can be pitchers. Also, I think that the purple belt is the expert level of the BJJ technique and that the brown and black belt are the instructor/supervisory belts. Don't get me wrong the brown and black belt will be more efficient than a purple belt, but the teaching skills should really be enhanced. If a purple belt is made in a school through BJJ flexible standards and she is willing to teach then that person is able to be a black belt.
Gotcha.
Speaking of pitchers, isn’t the ultimate goal of a success pitcher to strike out batters? To me, i strikeout is the equivalent of a submission.
Hello Coach
Arm sling? Hope you aren't injured badly. Always enjoy and respect your opinion, thank 🙏 you for sharing
I had just had shoulder surgery when that video was filmed.
@@KamaJiuJitsu 🙏
I started late. I've excepted the fact there's a very real possibility I'll never get to black belt level. I'd rather "retire" or die at an earned purple belt level than a handed-out black belt.
My understanding is that back in the early years, there were only 3 belts in Gracie Jiu-Jitsu white, light blue and navy blue...if one were just keep that in mind, focus on developing skills and not concern themselves with promotions...they will always grow in their Jiu-Jitsu journey regardless of age, sex or physicality...
You are exactly right.
Hi Ryan if you go and roll with a 23 year old black belt at a top school such as Atos or Art of Jiu Jitsu would keep the black belt level then ? everything is relative
What if you start at 45 and at 55 you are at the same level of 55 years old black belt, but you can't pass the test because of your age. Also the 55 years old black belt couldn't pass the test he passed in his 20s or 30s.
Age never stops someone from passing a test.
Lack of the ability to accomplish the task at hand does.
surely knowledge, technical understanding, mentoring and being a role model for a gym has value and earns a black belt over time. I don't believe age prevents grading otherwise people would be denoted or have to give up BJJ as they age. Surely having years in the mat (experience) and being able to pass that down to the next generation is one of the major roles of the black belt. I guess it all depends what the gym you attend values, if it's medals and competition then there is no longevity in that for anyone.
You may expect a promotion; but you can only accept a promotion. It all is on the scale of the professor / teacher to promote the art. As a professor you protect the art and your students. Work hard show good citizenship be a good classmate and student. Promotions will follow. Rule number one don't ask when you're being promoted ask what you can do better or what is required then do it.
In my case, the things I've gained through BJJ are more valuable than rank. I do honor and respect the rank I've earned (4s Blue belt), but its not my main focus. I turn 50 end of December, and have learned what I need to do to stay on the mats long term.
You’ve figured out “the game.”
@@KamaJiuJitsu Im sure trying...
I want to start training but I don't care about being rewarded a belt unless there are some perks I don't know about after receiving a belt. I just want to learn and keep getting better.
That’s exactly the attitude to have to be successful, to whatever level you ultimately end up at.
There's also the opposite problem. What if you hv an extreme world class athlete like Jon Jones, who's physical skill and athletic level is so high that even with little knowledge they beat higher belts. Is he really a purple, brown or black belt without the thorough knowledge. How much does technical knowledge play into it as much as ability in getting a Black Belt?
It just goes to show, that good grappling is simply good grappling. There is a ton of overlap between the grappling disciplines. But there are nuances between each art that differentiate one from another.
But, since there are so many similarities, it would not take someone who is experienced in one art, to master another art.
In theory, I agree with the curriculum concept for BJJ. The organization and structure is helpful for learning. But I can't help but wonder what room is left for an instructor to consider the development, personal growth, and character of each student as it relates to promotions. Very complex issue to grapple with (pun intended, lol), and we may never have a definitive answer. Thanks for another good video Professor Ryan.
I can't imagine ever asking an instructor for a belt. It's completely up to the instructor.
Man I would be happy if I made Blue... its not about chasing colours it's just about dedicating your life to the pursuit of happiness in JJ.
According to this thinking, there should be an absolute standard for everyone to earn a belt. This seems to imply there should be an absolute standard to maintain that belt level. However, if that were true, then that would mean that as bjj students get older and lose physical abilities to maintain the belt they are at, they would be demoted to lower belts. But, this doesn’t happen, which implies that there is a knowledge factor to belt level, aside from the physical abilities.
Wrong.
If you earn a college degree when you’re young, you keep it.
If you earn a championship when you’re young, you keep the medal.
If you earn a title when you’re young, you keep it.
Michael Schumacher earned 7 world titles when he was young, he keeps them even though he can no longer walk, let alone drive a car today.
If you earn a black belt when you’re young, you keep it.
If you try anything at an advanced age that people typically earn when in their younger years, then…
Well, you know the rest.
@@KamaJiuJitsu Actually, your college degree analogy might be better. Maybe getting a black belt at an older age is like getting an honorary college degree, which uses broader criteria to give that degree.
That’s a great example. The honorary college degree, I’ve always thought to be BS. Here’s the thing…
1) an honorary degree is usually given to a celebrity who hasn’t gone through the rigors to earn an actual degree from that university. Maybe he gave the college a significant amount of money or notoriety or used his personal influence to greatly help the university. Regular Degree holders who toiled through the curriculum and paid the money know it’s BS, too. If the honorary degree comes with “a parchment,” it is (likely) not worded the same as an ordinary degree, either, I’m thinking.
2) people who are candidates for a BB want to EARN a BJJ black belt; not be GIVEN a BB.
3) with earning a BB, comes the PRIVILEGE of representing the organization (or Professor) by opening their own independent academy teaching BJJ.
4) let’s say the professor wants to validate the student’s effort over the years with SOMETHING, but doesn’t feel he will teach/represent the art to its fullest potential, should he instead award a “consolation” black belt of sorts err, an “honorary” black(ish) belt?
How does one do that in a way that’s acceptable and not an insult to the student AND to the other past, present, and future black belts who earned the black belt without “buying” it?
I just ask because I know of a “black belt” who only took privates (never went through the grind training in group classes) from a BJJ red/white belt master who awarded purple belts to students who were far from ready to wear the belt?
I'm back. Now 51. Still blue belt. I left this academy cause I notice the 3 guys who got selected for their purple. Technique, time showing up and strength. When we notice the criterias, a few of us left cause the strength factor is what we cant keep. Those 3 guys, 30ish, are f&%$ strong, and the instructor never even looked at me and other students for their next belts.
I think there is an age for certain BJJ belts, and I wouldnt be happy to earn the bjj black at 60 if young guys would kick my butt each week.
The new school I joined told me they consider the age factor and strength isnt a major standard for belting. I like that.
Tough topic to navigate.
I am a 43 year old woman, blue belt, and I disagree with the old notion of not allowing women to progress after purple. I personally don’t want to get my black belt unless I can tap out every person in my gym, or at least give any of the male black belts a hard time and not get submitted! If my physical limitations stop me at purple, then I would accept that. but there are plenty of women who kick ass, and deserve a black belt. I guarantee that the current leading female black belts in competition could stand their ground with most men in their weight class.
You have exactly the correct mindset! However, try to keep your expectations reasonable. Expecting to get your black belt only if you tap out every single person in the gym, might be a little unrealistic. It doesn’t take that to earn a black belt. It’s really a combination of factors, proficiency in the art being just one of them. Of course, it’s up to your professor what you are required to qualify with.
Unpopular opinion.
I personally think with a performance-based art like Gracie JJ, the whole belt system should just be dispensed with. Just like in Muay Thai or Fencing. Practitioner, Athlete or Coach.
World champion dream class.
So what about smaller men? Why isn't there a scale for them?
Because I (Ryan) didn’t get to be on one?
I think you touched a very improtant and delicate issue! I agree with the fireman-lady, I had a similar issue when being in the military, my unite "bent" the rules of the unit and allowed women to be part of it, which created the same issue - they(women) could not carry as much as we did, as for a fact, more so it created hate and resentment due to the fact the we (including me) were commanded to help and carry things for them due to the lack of strength!
And people then call men misogynistic... 🤔
I don’t know man, I think you need to stress test some of your assumptions and criteria a bit more.
It seems you are arguing that the limiting factor really is about physicality, strength, being able to “defend” that black belt. Well, if that’s true, a heavyweight gold medalist Olympic wrestler would automatically be a jiu jitsu black belt, right? An Olympiad at that skill level could wreck the average teaching black belt, without knowing a lick of jiu jitsu.
Age also isn’t the limiting factor when it comes to your black belt. You don’t lose your belt when you hit fifty and get rolled by an up and coming monster. If you, science forbid, have a serious injury or illness that takes you out of the game permanently, you don’t lose your belt. Its more than just physical, more than just being able to dominate on the mats.
There’s a blend of the physical and skill, but also knowledge, that combine to give the ranks meaning. I don’t know what the exact blend is, that’s above my pay grade, but I do know that there is a blend
You might not be a able to slam dunk a basketball, but there are many NBA players who can’t dunk either and are still considered professionals and valuable to the team. I think coaches should be more like talent scouts who look for different skill sets, not just the strong big man game. I think a lot coaches overlook the small weaker man/women/ handicap game. A game where a person can develop just off his/her back and still lockdown another black belt’s game. Because at a certain age the “get on top, stay on top” game can be tough and impossible as you get older.
Curious... do you then have different scales for small men and large men? and if not why not? A 140lb man might struggle to squat the same weight as a 250lb man?
If someone received their black belt at age 30 and then 30 years later they can no longer perform at the black belt level, should they still be able to wear their black belt?
Did the EARN the black belt at one time in their life?
great discussion 👍
So someone who has a current ailment can’t get to black belt? Ihope your academy is more upfront on your expectations now having your experience with your older student you reference in your video.
U may not be able to slam dunk a basketball but that doesn't mean i can't become a good basketball player
As an old guy, I do not want nor expect anything given to me. I would rather earn it. I also realize that I will plateau and then start declining in ability.
I'm 65 here and 41 years in another Martial art where when I was much younger was extremely competitive and won competitions against many different styles of Martial Arts but about a little over ayear ago I began training BJJ. I have no problem being a white belt as it's a different style, what I do have a problem with is the arrogance and ignorance I see that is prevalent in BJJ. It's a shame that so many do not respect knowledge when compared to muscle and speed. I am not looking for a handout for anything however if someones trains in BJJ for 10 to 15 years consistently in their old age, has the knowledge to show someone a technique and still can roll some then it is a shame just because of their physical ability to hold them back because of their age or gender. Fighting of any style is a chess game and without the knowledge of your tools you do not deserve a rank just because of your age or strength. One factor that plays in is the fact that the gym or competition has rules you have to go by when rolling. In real life , determination and knowledge with the ability to use technigues you aren't allowed to in competition or the gym. Using the system of only the young, fast, and strong survive to get their Black Belt is irrational because who are you going to compare that to? Using that grading one could say that only Olympic athelites, or say the top three or four Professional fighters in the World should be Black Belts. A Black Belt means you know what to do, how to do, and when to do in a given situation according to your ability. In a few years will BB level in BJJ be only given to those that can perform the fancy new modified flipping, jumping, and flying techniques that were NEVER used until the past few years? Of course the way it is now the longer you can keep someone at a lower rank regardless of thier ability and you have brainwashed them to accepting that because they aren't World class athletes then the more money you can milk out of them until they die. I've seen this in some other Martial Arts also but I also have seen the Mentality of the direction BJJ is taking that only Strong, fast, young without knowledge are promoted over people with better and more Knowledgable skills. Everyone talks about controlling ego and all I am seeing here is ego of youth. I sure hope you guys get it figured out as for me I'll just float along and learn everything I can to add to my tools I already know. Again I am 65, I have a severly screwed up back that should have surgery, I have had 4 shoulder repairs and should have a reverse replacement of one of them now, I just had a hip replacement, I have a broken wrist I probably should have fixed one day , and I have three vertebrae in my neck fused from a broken neck many years ago. I don't expect I will ever live long enough to achieve a BB in BJJ as I still have a shopping list of surgeries to go but I'll be damned if I am going to give up because you guys can't get your crap together and get over whatever prejudice and eliteism you have built up in your minds. Geeze reading some of these comments makes me realize it's not just a few styles of Martial arts that have problems but dang near every one of them. I'm truly not sure which is worse in this World any more ego or attitude. I guess as I get older I see the World in a different light, my car's prettier than your car so you aren't as good as me. Such a shame. Yeah, I know, blast away, I'm a lot older , weaker, and slower . But I'm still here. I also have an awesome place to train and awesome instructors who understand I have injuries so we try to figure out what an old crippled guy can do and I thank and respect them for it.😂😂😂😂😂😂
Yeah, I think I echo the thoughts of similar people below. I am 72, a 4=stripe blue belt, and just got absolutely smashed in my first blue belt competition. My coach said not to worry, he'd find me older guys to compete with. I told him to...not to...for me BJJ belts reflect skill levels not age levels. I can't get younger but I can get better, so I'll get a purple belt when I can smash most blue belts. But...I think that is fine only if you see BJJ in absolute - practical - terms. As a sport then maybe distinctions should be made, for size, age, gender etc. Depends on what you want.
That’s possible. The problem is, we all wear the same belt colors, regardless of classifications.
What about when you get older per se do you loose your belt status as your athleticism declines ?
Great point
ok so why dont people get their belts taken away when they get older? is it a trophy then? Im 40. Say I bust my ass for 10 years and get my black belt at 50. But by 60 Im getting pretty fucked up and cant do 1/2 the moves anymore. I lose my belt? The reality is an older person may not be able to hit a move in sparring or a match, but do they know it? Can they demonstrate it in a flow roll? In a drill?
That being said, even a blue belt is an enormous achievement and something anyone should be proud of.
I like wrestling as there are no belts. But let's just develop the concept further that belts matter. So what happens when the young buck who gets his black belt at 35 later turns 60+ and can't perform on the mat and loses now consistently to new blue bwlts. Do you take it away as they do not represent what a black belts stands for. Or does the black belt represent more than just rolling?
You’re late to this party. Scroll down (or up, however it goes).
You’re completely missing the point.
So my thoughts are this, and by no means do they matter at all. Your belt and the color of it only cover ~2 inches of your back. The color of your belt matter but that should not be the reason you are going, studying and practicing Jiu Jitsu. I am 44 and have my blue belt. If I never advance in my belt color, I am personally ok with that, but if my Jiu jitsu never advances that will be what I would have a problem with. Stop worrying about the belt, worry about the Jiu Jitsu.
You missed the point of the video.
But you’re absolutely correct.
So if a person earns a belt and can no longer demonstrate or perform like they once did should it be taken back? I know a couple of black belts who were once monsters but due to one reason or another just aren't anymore. They still have the knowledge but can't perform like they did. Knowledge and performance are two different things in my opinion. Just following the thought process to its end.
If he earned it, he can’t lose it. The point of the video, which some miss (including you, it seems), is warning it in the first place, not should it be taken away from you once you “age out” of training hard.
Very interesting perspective
As a 73 yo white belt, I don't care if I ever get promoted as long as I'm learning. Egos have to be kept in check at all ages.
There shouldn't be a scale for age. It should be based on the individuals ability. Even at the BB level there are all levels of BBs, even in the sam degree. This is true for all martial arts.
I'm 55 and just started my BJJ journey. After the first month I got a popped rib (very painful). I'm out for about 4 - 6 weeks. Bummer.
I did a video on popped ribs.
If you get a black belt as a young man, do you take it away when he's an older man? He doesn't move like a real bb anymore....
What do YOU think?
Are you in your car? Why are you wearing a seat belt?
I was at home. That’s a sling. I had just had shoulder surgery.
@@KamaJiuJitsu Oh man! Sorry Professor. I was just poking. I actually thought it might be a necktie. Hope you heal quickly!
Thanks!
It should all just be measured according to one's own physical potential. Why is that so hard?According to the viewpoint in this video, someone with a physical handicap is fundamentally glass ceiling'ed in BJJ.
So why don’t some of the old grey heads in BJJ take off the black belt because they cannot keep up or preform techniques they could do at a younger age?
Black belt mastered the art, can effectively perform it and pass it to the others. By definition it means that this black belt person NO MATTER THE AGE OR GENDER is supposed to beat the majority of practicioners. Of course there will be occasions with competetive athletic purple belt beat black belt guys of age. But that it is not about BJJ. A young boxer will beat a retired boxer. That does not imply that the retired one LOST all of his skills. He just cannot participate in professional sport which require NOT ONLY skill.
Very well said.
??? With that thinking should Helio have got his BB? I ask cause he didn't have the athletic ability right?
Interesting point of view!
Could a teenager earn a black belt? I was 5’11 220lbs in 8th grade.
Not here. Typical minimum age for black belt is 18 or 19.
Not sure if your height and weight would’ve meant black belt proficiency, though.
I'm sorry, I don't train bjj to "compete". I train for self defense. This is what is wrong with BJJ today.
I think every black belt will get to the age where they can’t perform the technique on a younger person. I think accumulated knowledge should be a factor.
This whole chat is like a time warp to back when we were less educated and informed regarding what women are capable of.
What are they more capable of physically today that they weren’t capable of 30, 50, or 200 years ago?
@@KamaJiuJitsu nothing, that's the point. What has changed however is the recognition by society that physical capability is more complex than whether a person has a penis or vagina.
49 here. 3 years in the gi (blue), and 15 more years (nogi), just and only a few decades in other striking combat sports. I've exceled and became among the best in most combat sports, but BJJ is the art where I am no longer among the best. But you know what ? I dont care, I just love to earn one technique at a time, and earn each technique rather than earning belts.
You think that way BECAUSE of your multi-year background in combat activities.
Thats why the gi will always be more popular than no gi jiu jitsu... It attracts much more children, women and old people than no gi.
“No gi” as a specialty, is newer as a sub class.
All of us who started training while Helio’s sons were teaching day in/day out ALL did no gi.
In the first minute of the video, you said "Older people, kids, women, "Frail people." Not cool... Was that just a slip up?
🤷♂️
I ad lib everything and have no pre-written script.
So what comes out, comes out.
I never intend to insult people.
But if people get insulted by what I say or how I say it, whatever, that’s their prerogative.
I feel that this is unfair as promotions should be based on an individual bring compared to his or her former performance when it is time to consider a promotion. There is no one size fits all for belts. People are different. Jiujitsu should treat all as equals and if u make the effort, learn the skills on the mat, learn to teach them, and similar when your sensei feels u deserve a promotion that should be adequate.
But a “black belt” is a black belt, is it not? What if you’re the person looking for a BJJ school to learn at but the black belt who owns the school is not on par with the average black belt because they were awarded the black belt based on your criteria above. Would that be fair to you if they charged you the same as the other black belt down the street, knowing nothing else? Well, he DID try his best, didn’t/couldn’t learn everything because he was physically unable to do the techniques BUT he did try really hard and showed up for classes all the time. He because best person HE could be, but doesn’t have the same acumen as others he learned with.
I dunno. I’m just asking.
Its subjective is the bottom line. If you are competing and doing well at your age /weight that is extra evidence that can be taken into consideration. I think if a person puts in the time and does well at their age weight, they should expect to be promoted. I would take my business elsewhere if my professor didn’t have that same mindset. Comparing a 24 year old practitioner to a 54 year old practitioner of similar experience level is still apples to oranges.
I am near 62 and love my white belt ! I can put my socks on now a whole lot easier. js.
Are there objective standards to judge by?
For example, x percent of practitioners demonstrate a certain skill which places them in their belt standing. The participant must be proficient in sparring with the majority of opponents regardless of size.
Perhaps that is not realistic and weight classes may be more appropriate.
I appreciate the differences between sexes. I don't want something I didn't earn. I just want to learn the fundamentals and defenses.
There are a lot of contradictory examples you have laid out sir. Helio wasn't he "frail" and he got his red belt? Now if a older person starts Jiu jitsu along side a 20 year old he is not as strong or fast or as conditioned. Yet they attend the same amount of time. The elder knows the same technique and knows how to apply it. As well as the younger trainee. Now if the younger trainee beats the elder during rolling is the younger trainee a higher belt or just younger and more athletic? So now if that older gentleman has been training for 10 years diligently is he capable of applying his techniques at a black belt level? I am sure he can. Isn't BJJ/GJJ supposed to be all about technique? Not about brute strength or athletic ability. So do you think that if that older man or woman would roll with a newbie would he not out technique them? Or any average Joe. Your analogy of you going to the NBA and making it ? Really? That is a elite exclusive level. Maybe 350 humans make it to the NBA. That is way elite, you can find 300 black belts in L.A. F1 pilots there are only 20 in the world. Those sports are for the best of the best athletes. Like track and field etc etc. Jiu jitsu especially Gracie Jiu jitsu you know the self defense Jiu jitsu that you always mention to put down sport Jiu jitsu and Rave about Rickson it is not only for elite athletes. It's the contrary it is for the weak to be able to defend themselves. So when you mentioned that if an older guy gets a black belt being older he has trained for 10 years and you questioned is he really a black belt? Ok so if you roll with Roger, Marcelo García, Galvao, Rener, Ryron, Gordon Ryan etc etc . You get crushed so I ask you , are you really aBlack Belt?
Me?
No.