I can tell that we have a lot in common when it comes to playstyle and for the most part our list is very similar. I won't go too in depth about my rankings as I think I have made my preferences clear throughout the month. Instead, I would like to talk about this expansion and what makes it so special to me. I think I have a bittersweet love for this Expansion. Every spirit and aspect have some type of support or card that was designed exclusively with multiplayer in mind. And while I know that Spirit Island is a multiplayer game first and a solo game second. in older designs, every spirit felt like they could just tunnel their own board and occasionally move out to help. I love that spirits that I would normally think would be selfish like Breath, Ember eyed, and Wounded water have cards that a targeted specifically at another spirit. It is the same type of design that makes Horizen so enthralling to me. each spirit is neat on their own but once combined together you can really see how powerful they can become. Sadly, for me my playgroup doesn't like spirit island at all and it is hard for me to have the confidence to reach out and play on the discord. So, I see all these aspects like mentor and Locus and while I play them, I can only think "Oh imagine how cool it would be to play this in multiplayer." I feel as if some aspects are just relegated to good in multiplayer, but not better than base in solo. Speaking of Aspects, one comment that really stood out to me during the campaign was when the design team mentioned that the spirits weren't even the best and most exciting part of the expansion. At the time I felt that there was no way that could be true, but after seeing how transformative these aspects are compared to the previous batch. I can agree. I find myself more captivated with revisiting older spirits that I have thrown into the never touch bin and finding new ways to enjoy them and even wanting to reexplore their base kit as well. I was a bit upset that all the low complexity spirits got another set of cards as they already had enough in my opinion. Especially when some sprits could have used the help in popularity (My poor boy vengeance is once again forgotten). I don't think that the 4 aspects we got were bad, but I would have liked to see them skipped over for a cycle to give some attention to others. I agree that some of the smallest rules changes did the most for some spirits. I can't stand warrior, but taction has taken over my brain lately in how it shakes up what you value and look for. And finally, a way to break the Kepper curse of perfect growth order and optimized play. It makes me feel like a walking tree stomping around frighting the dahan as I Slap cities out of existence. I feels so much like an incarna spirit and with only changing 1 growth option! I think that all the aspect incarna are a big miss as well. (except Locus but I don't like them for other reasons) they basically do the same thing as the base but take away so much flexibility. While other aspects transform and morph, they just do the same but slightly different with more rules that aren't needed. Like Lair is base lure but only 1 land. Warrior is base TS but without manifest. So all your presence is useless on the island. The new Spirits are really showing how much design space is left for this game. These spirits each have some amazing mechanics that feel very transformative and make me look at the game in new and exciting ways. I am a bit sad that out seconded disease spirit doesn't really play around with disease. (To the point I wouldn't even count it as a disease spirit). Each sprit has multiple game plans and ways to grow. I was scared that we could get another Kepper or River, where the opening is always the same no matter what is going on in the game. The diversity in presence placement and card selection makes me want to keep experimenting and testing out new ways to play. Wounded water and Roots really surprised me. I initially had them very low on my list, but after a game or three I found them to be very fun. Roots still has a stall problem that I can't stand, but it is so much better than other spirits with that playstyle. Sun and Breath are my MVP for this expansion. The theme flavor and gameplay for these two are just A++ They hit every spot just right. Wandering voices and hearth vigil didn't live up to the hype for me. They rest in the Mid tier and I will go back to play them, but they playstyle didn't match what I expected out of them. Even though Wandering Voices broke my old Score recorded. Wow that's a wall of text! I have enjoyed the series and I look forward to what the future holds. I can't wait to see some deep dives and experimentation with the new spirits now that the initial testing is over!
Thanks for the write-up! I always enjoyed reading your insights on all the prior videos! It’s a shame you don’t have an irl group to play with, I think there was a push to create a means to do meetups via the discord but I’m not sure that ever went through. Perhaps there’s a convention coming up?
I thought I was going to hate WWB and then I absolutely loved it. I didn't even feel too restricted in the first few turns because unlike serpent it's not _most_ of the game, it's just the first few turns-and you still have meaningful choices the first few turns, and the blight control is cool.
Thank you so much for your response! We’re really still novice to the game, but we actually do have some spirits in mind that we want to personally play, but not sure how well they’ll pair up. We don’t have know how important this is, but we’re playing the iOS version. Here, I’ll give you a list of what we’d like to play: Her: ThunderSpeaker, Oceans’s Hungry, Grasp, Fathomless Mud of the Swamp, Eyes Watch from the Trees, Heart of the Wildfire Me: Sun-Bright Whirlwind, Sharp Fangs Behind the Leaves, Serpent Slumbering Beneath the Island Oh, and she asked if you’d know a few cards to keep a look out for that compliments the pair, but I told her that’s asking for too much. Thanks a ton for your help!
Agree big time on EEB and gaze, those are some of the most fun I've had playing spirit island. Disagree on lair as the effect of magnetically locking pieces in a land is really quite unique and lots of fun vs Habsburg
I think I may break with you on Intensify Memories. I'm losing a lot of support power by not being able to hold onto elements at all. Sharing elements is basically a non-option at the point.
I did one for dark fire back when it was spoiled several months ago: ua-cam.com/video/Ym-DtD5Ldkc/v-deo.html As for the others I will definitely make something with tactician and mentor once I get a better sense of how they play
A small correction, Lair can be re-added/moved at cost of growth (rule clarification on A Single Alluring Lair ) "Add" is defined on the back of the rulebook - Add if not on the island. I agree with your thoughts on bottom tier, with a slightly higher ranking of Lair as it is still playable as opposed to Warrior. It is a much weaker version of Lure, but base Lure is above the power curve anyway, while Warrior does not hold a candle to TS, not even close. The saddest part about this is those two aspects ate a lot of resources with taking incarna slots and now will also have dud premium tokens gathering dust in physical. Waste of space and material, which could have been used for extra majors or other aspects. Both of those incarnas could have been just represented with defend markers, in case of warrior even better, mark a dahan.
It cannot. If your Incarna is currently on the island, you can Reposition it following the base game's rules on Reposition. If your Incarna is in the destroyed Incanra supply, it can only be added specifically by "add Incarna" instructions.
I usually like your commentary, we aren’t kindred spirits and that’s ok. I laughed my ass off when you were in explaining your position on base Memory! My god, yeah, just zero flavor, dog water in a bottle, full agree. :)
Personally, I would play Sparking Lightning if it doesn't replace Thundering Destruction & just swapped the Raging Storm out. That would really feel like Lightning's peak power. Smiting targets & inspiring others at the same time
Concerning Wounded Waters I don't think the fact that many of the earlier designs happened to end up unbalanced in their builds and only give you the illusion of choice means that having a spirit that feels very on rails for half the game is necessarily a *desirable* design goal. Of course I do get that the unspoken connective tissue of the argument is "these other spirits are also very restrictive in practice AND YET people have had plenty of fun with them" (as opposed to the argument simply being that it's good for something to offer less choice just because another older thing did too). That said, I really want to play it and get a feel for myself, because just looking at the tracks and growth options it DOES feel extremely straightjackety for a few key turns, but maybe in practice the early game is not that bad and the payoff for the mid/late game does seem quite exciting. And yeah of course different folks like different playstyles, and this spirit's strange early game might end up being a cool option for people who feel overwhelmed early on and see this novel track as an additional perk.
My god, I enjoyed your thoughts on Warrior and Due. DUE looks boring as fuck to me, you beat most adversaries turn 4…. Wooooo… me and my partner have stopped using stone because of no parity. I can’t imagine playing or recommending warrior, and the new keeper, I’ll reserve judgment because I can see some fun in that puzzle but I see annoyances too. Spark, I lived your commentary but m gonna test and decide, but I fully agree, Raging is underrated, unlimited damage, it’s overcosted but it can combo like crazy. I think if they kept raging and got rid of shattered they would have to make the new card 1 cost, my guess is that one goal in replacing raging was to lower the total hand cost.
Interesting discussion. Funny how often I disagree. I think perhaps that is because I disagree that “most spirits have an optimal opening”. I think players miss out on a lot if they think that. There is so much variety with adversaries, scenarios, initial explores, etc. For example, I have hundred of Fangs games in, and I would estimate 10% or so have a turn one top track opening that you described. I have top level adversary wins not double growing the River into a reclaim loop. I also would prefer a more positive video, but that’s just my style of course and obviously it’s your channel. I would swear sometimes with both you and Red that it sounds like you don’t like the game.
I generally try not to be negative, but this one I figured I would just put it all out there, bad and good! I think being a little dramatic can be fun from time to time, and in general my attitude is that it's better for a spirit to be loved and hated as opposed to something everyone is indifferent towards
base memory really suffers imo because they came out with Starlight and by far starlight does what Memory wanted to do but so much better. Both want to grab a major early and define their entire build around that single card. The amount of bookkeeping and boring effects on the unique is so tedious I sometimes just give up and grab 1 element. Intensity has really brought out a new side to the spirit that I really enjoy. it basically turns every minor into a major with how much extra effects can be stuffed into a card.
I'm a big fan of your content, watching pretty much every video the day they release. I gotta be honest, this video was completely killed by the final 20 or so minutes. Its enjoyable hearing your thoughts on new content, and while I may disagree with some of your opinions, thats just the nature of these things: one persons favorite thing will probably be another persons least favorite. What was not enjoyable was hearing you whine for 20 minutes straight about everything you disliked about *three* aspects (I mean c'mon, you literally went on about Sparking for nearly 10 minutes straight). You repeatedly saying things along the lines of "its horrible, what am I supposed to like about this, etc" also just feels super out of place when you acknowledged in the same video that some things aren't for everyone, and how thats fine. Disappointing end to this video aside, I enjoyed watching you play through all the NI content and am looking forward to seeing what you do in the future 😄
I disagree. It was prefaced with bias warning, and his bias is that base quick bird and its daughter are strong and they were absolutely gimped by the aspects, which was then backed up by numbers and analysis. Also, from what I understand Lightning is among his favorite spirits, which obviously leads to stronger emotions where spirit is somewhat mistreated. I would actually like to hear more analysis of mid tier, even if it was in same negative tone.
I can tell that we have a lot in common when it comes to playstyle and for the most part our list is very similar. I won't go too in depth about my rankings as I think I have made my preferences clear throughout the month. Instead, I would like to talk about this expansion and what makes it so special to me.
I think I have a bittersweet love for this Expansion. Every spirit and aspect have some type of support or card that was designed exclusively with multiplayer in mind. And while I know that Spirit Island is a multiplayer game first and a solo game second. in older designs, every spirit felt like they could just tunnel their own board and occasionally move out to help. I love that spirits that I would normally think would be selfish like Breath, Ember eyed, and Wounded water have cards that a targeted specifically at another spirit. It is the same type of design that makes Horizen so enthralling to me. each spirit is neat on their own but once combined together you can really see how powerful they can become. Sadly, for me my playgroup doesn't like spirit island at all and it is hard for me to have the confidence to reach out and play on the discord. So, I see all these aspects like mentor and Locus and while I play them, I can only think "Oh imagine how cool it would be to play this in multiplayer." I feel as if some aspects are just relegated to good in multiplayer, but not better than base in solo.
Speaking of Aspects, one comment that really stood out to me during the campaign was when the design team mentioned that the spirits weren't even the best and most exciting part of the expansion. At the time I felt that there was no way that could be true, but after seeing how transformative these aspects are compared to the previous batch. I can agree. I find myself more captivated with revisiting older spirits that I have thrown into the never touch bin and finding new ways to enjoy them and even wanting to reexplore their base kit as well. I was a bit upset that all the low complexity spirits got another set of cards as they already had enough in my opinion. Especially when some sprits could have used the help in popularity (My poor boy vengeance is once again forgotten). I don't think that the 4 aspects we got were bad, but I would have liked to see them skipped over for a cycle to give some attention to others. I agree that some of the smallest rules changes did the most for some spirits. I can't stand warrior, but taction has taken over my brain lately in how it shakes up what you value and look for. And finally, a way to break the Kepper curse of perfect growth order and optimized play. It makes me feel like a walking tree stomping around frighting the dahan as I Slap cities out of existence. I feels so much like an incarna spirit and with only changing 1 growth option! I think that all the aspect incarna are a big miss as well. (except Locus but I don't like them for other reasons) they basically do the same thing as the base but take away so much flexibility. While other aspects transform and morph, they just do the same but slightly different with more rules that aren't needed. Like Lair is base lure but only 1 land. Warrior is base TS but without manifest. So all your presence is useless on the island.
The new Spirits are really showing how much design space is left for this game. These spirits each have some amazing mechanics that feel very transformative and make me look at the game in new and exciting ways. I am a bit sad that out seconded disease spirit doesn't really play around with disease. (To the point I wouldn't even count it as a disease spirit). Each sprit has multiple game plans and ways to grow. I was scared that we could get another Kepper or River, where the opening is always the same no matter what is going on in the game. The diversity in presence placement and card selection makes me want to keep experimenting and testing out new ways to play. Wounded water and Roots really surprised me. I initially had them very low on my list, but after a game or three I found them to be very fun. Roots still has a stall problem that I can't stand, but it is so much better than other spirits with that playstyle. Sun and Breath are my MVP for this expansion. The theme flavor and gameplay for these two are just A++ They hit every spot just right. Wandering voices and hearth vigil didn't live up to the hype for me. They rest in the Mid tier and I will go back to play them, but they playstyle didn't match what I expected out of them. Even though Wandering Voices broke my old Score recorded.
Wow that's a wall of text! I have enjoyed the series and I look forward to what the future holds. I can't wait to see some deep dives and experimentation with the new spirits now that the initial testing is over!
Thanks for the write-up! I always enjoyed reading your insights on all the prior videos!
It’s a shame you don’t have an irl group to play with, I think there was a push to create a means to do meetups via the discord but I’m not sure that ever went through. Perhaps there’s a convention coming up?
I also love how you explain your approach towards a tierlist and how that should be put into context. Big of that in your previous tierlist as wel.
I thought I was going to hate WWB and then I absolutely loved it. I didn't even feel too restricted in the first few turns because unlike serpent it's not _most_ of the game, it's just the first few turns-and you still have meaningful choices the first few turns, and the blight control is cool.
Awesome Content! 🎉
I liked & subscribed.
I would like to see your tier list of dual-spirits for us couples playing this coop.
Thank you so much! ❤
Is there a particular spirit either of you want to play or a short list? There’s over 1000 spirit pairings!
Thank you so much for your response!
We’re really still novice to the game, but we actually do have some spirits in mind that we want to personally play, but not sure how well they’ll pair up.
We don’t have know how important this is, but we’re playing the iOS version.
Here, I’ll give you a list of what we’d like to play:
Her: ThunderSpeaker, Oceans’s Hungry, Grasp, Fathomless Mud of the Swamp, Eyes Watch from the Trees, Heart of the Wildfire
Me: Sun-Bright Whirlwind, Sharp Fangs Behind the Leaves, Serpent Slumbering Beneath the Island
Oh, and she asked if you’d know a few cards to keep a look out for that compliments the pair, but I told her that’s asking for too much.
Thanks a ton for your help!
I love your videos
I'm loving your videos! Coherent and well thought out. Keep it up!
warrior is actually fun, makes the dahan puzzle much more important
Agree big time on EEB and gaze, those are some of the most fun I've had playing spirit island. Disagree on lair as the effect of magnetically locking pieces in a land is really quite unique and lots of fun vs Habsburg
I think I may break with you on Intensify Memories. I'm losing a lot of support power by not being able to hold onto elements at all. Sharing elements is basically a non-option at the point.
Do you mean for Elemental Teachings?
@@ryanlackie1129 Yeah, elemental teachings.
Any plans on doing videos on the remaining aspects? (dark fire, regrowth, tactician and mentor)
I did one for dark fire back when it was spoiled several months ago: ua-cam.com/video/Ym-DtD5Ldkc/v-deo.html
As for the others I will definitely make something with tactician and mentor once I get a better sense of how they play
@@ryanlackie1129 Ah ok cool must have missed that one! Thanks for the speedy reply (and all the awesome content)! :)
A small correction, Lair can be re-added/moved at cost of growth (rule clarification on A Single Alluring Lair ) "Add" is defined on the back of the rulebook - Add if not on the island.
I agree with your thoughts on bottom tier, with a slightly higher ranking of Lair as it is still playable as opposed to Warrior. It is a much weaker version of Lure, but base Lure is above the power curve anyway, while Warrior does not hold a candle to TS, not even close.
The saddest part about this is those two aspects ate a lot of resources with taking incarna slots and now will also have dud premium tokens gathering dust in physical. Waste of space and material, which could have been used for extra majors or other aspects. Both of those incarnas could have been just represented with defend markers, in case of warrior even better, mark a dahan.
It cannot. If your Incarna is currently on the island, you can Reposition it following the base game's rules on Reposition. If your Incarna is in the destroyed Incanra supply, it can only be added specifically by "add Incarna" instructions.
I usually like your commentary, we aren’t kindred spirits and that’s ok. I laughed my ass off when you were in explaining your position on base Memory! My god, yeah, just zero flavor, dog water in a bottle, full agree. :)
Transforming x Deeps is my new OTP. Some of the most fun I've had playing SI.
Personally, I would play Sparking Lightning if it doesn't replace Thundering Destruction & just swapped the Raging Storm out. That would really feel like Lightning's peak power. Smiting targets & inspiring others at the same time
Concerning Wounded Waters I don't think the fact that many of the earlier designs happened to end up unbalanced in their builds and only give you the illusion of choice means that having a spirit that feels very on rails for half the game is necessarily a *desirable* design goal. Of course I do get that the unspoken connective tissue of the argument is "these other spirits are also very restrictive in practice AND YET people have had plenty of fun with them" (as opposed to the argument simply being that it's good for something to offer less choice just because another older thing did too). That said, I really want to play it and get a feel for myself, because just looking at the tracks and growth options it DOES feel extremely straightjackety for a few key turns, but maybe in practice the early game is not that bad and the payoff for the mid/late game does seem quite exciting.
And yeah of course different folks like different playstyles, and this spirit's strange early game might end up being a cool option for people who feel overwhelmed early on and see this novel track as an additional perk.
Yeah, everything is a tradeoff, and I’m glad they’re willing to make dramatic risky designs, even if it turns some people off
My god, I enjoyed your thoughts on Warrior and Due. DUE looks boring as fuck to me, you beat most adversaries turn 4…. Wooooo… me and my partner have stopped using stone because of no parity. I can’t imagine playing or recommending warrior, and the new keeper, I’ll reserve judgment because I can see some fun in that puzzle but I see annoyances too. Spark, I lived your commentary but m gonna test and decide, but I fully agree, Raging is underrated, unlimited damage, it’s overcosted but it can combo like crazy. I think if they kept raging and got rid of shattered they would have to make the new card 1 cost, my guess is that one goal in replacing raging was to lower the total hand cost.
Interesting discussion.
Funny how often I disagree. I think perhaps that is because I disagree that “most spirits have an optimal opening”. I think players miss out on a lot if they think that. There is so much variety with adversaries, scenarios, initial explores, etc.
For example, I have hundred of Fangs games in, and I would estimate 10% or so have a turn one top track opening that you described. I have top level adversary wins not double growing the River into a reclaim loop.
I also would prefer a more positive video, but that’s just my style of course and obviously it’s your channel.
I would swear sometimes with both you and Red that it sounds like you don’t like the game.
I generally try not to be negative, but this one I figured I would just put it all out there, bad and good! I think being a little dramatic can be fun from time to time, and in general my attitude is that it's better for a spirit to be loved and hated as opposed to something everyone is indifferent towards
Wow this memory slander is outrageous, he's my favorite spirit!
The aspects are both awesome, I’m sure you will really enjoy them
I'm so with you on base memory 😂
base memory really suffers imo because they came out with Starlight and by far starlight does what Memory wanted to do but so much better.
Both want to grab a major early and define their entire build around that single card. The amount of bookkeeping and boring effects on the unique is so tedious I sometimes just give up and grab 1 element.
Intensity has really brought out a new side to the spirit that I really enjoy. it basically turns every minor into a major with how much extra effects can be stuffed into a card.
I'm a big fan of your content, watching pretty much every video the day they release. I gotta be honest, this video was completely killed by the final 20 or so minutes. Its enjoyable hearing your thoughts on new content, and while I may disagree with some of your opinions, thats just the nature of these things: one persons favorite thing will probably be another persons least favorite.
What was not enjoyable was hearing you whine for 20 minutes straight about everything you disliked about *three* aspects (I mean c'mon, you literally went on about Sparking for nearly 10 minutes straight). You repeatedly saying things along the lines of "its horrible, what am I supposed to like about this, etc" also just feels super out of place when you acknowledged in the same video that some things aren't for everyone, and how thats fine.
Disappointing end to this video aside, I enjoyed watching you play through all the NI content and am looking forward to seeing what you do in the future 😄
I disagree. It was prefaced with bias warning, and his bias is that base quick bird and its daughter are strong and they were absolutely gimped by the aspects, which was then backed up by numbers and analysis.
Also, from what I understand Lightning is among his favorite spirits, which obviously leads to stronger emotions where spirit is somewhat mistreated.
I would actually like to hear more analysis of mid tier, even if it was in same negative tone.