Speaking of the dark side of the alpha quadras, the recent news of Ariana Grande and her new relationship may be a part of this, too. 😝 Sound off below! ⬇️
great insights Aimee! As an Fi user the hardest part of having an ISFJ mom are listening to things that are (to me) clearly hurtful, she just goes like "I'm sorry" and thinks now everything is fine but for me it just doesn't work like that...
Yes I noticed ISFJs doing this too, it's like directing the blame away from themselves. Never sorry for their own actions, only for the circumstances that created it. I would rather they don't apologise at all.
I am an ENTP, I have Fi as blind spot, but I have realised that IxFJ say something like 'I'm sorry if I upset you' kind of thing. They apologise without knowing how they have hurt others, because their Ti thinks that they are right, but they apologise due to Fe, xxFJ types don't like others being unhappy because it makes them unhappy, so the whole 'I'm sorry' is just 'stop being like this'
"I'll validate u for what u're feeling, but I dont agree with it!" - Said with a straightface hits home Bcuz of this, there are so many instances that I disagree of a particular detail, so I have to pick my battles on when its worth it, when I have the energy or when the detail is too big of a problem that it messes up ur sentence, statement, argument.
Nice to see an isfj type description video that doesn’t wildly miss the mark, even if this vid isn’t exclusive to them. A lot of people have toxic parents who traumatize them so they explain that to themselves by typing their parents as XSXJ and typing themselves as intuitive :( Very understandable but ultimately leads to people not understanding what real + non-toxic SFJs are like, especially the ones who aren’t nuns/nurses/Fred Rogers. This video does a pretty good job. You’re one of the only typology creators out there who seems to grasp just how detached Ti can make someone, even if they are an FJ type. I really don’t feel/absorb others’ emotions much, certainly not deeply. But I can read+respond them pretty well. I understand my own emotions pretty well, but only abstractly and they don’t seem to inform my behavior very much, which has most likely caused a lot of the problems I’ve had. Obviously we aren’t totally impersonal though. The SFJs are going to mostly be very personal+empathetic about others’ stories (as opposed to their feelings) and will feel very attached to our own stories (as opposed to our feelings). A big challenge for ISFJs is figuring out what to do when the story you’re telling yourself derails. This happens to everyone at some point, but for ISFJs, it’s particularly tough because 1. With Si dominant, something being a part of “our story” is almost a necessary condition for us to engage. We can get kinda depressed if we aren’t living out some kind of story because if we aren’t, we don’t do much. 2. We aren’t really grounded in Te goals or Fi identity+values, or even Ni reality. We view our own wants and desires as selfish and will often resist pursuing them because we view others “following their passion” or “my truth” kind of talk as selfish (Fi critical parent). Another problem we have is that SiFe makes us able to learn most things and fit in almost anywhere. This sounds like a good thing in theory (and sometimes it is) but it can make it difficult for us to really find our place. Anyway that got rambly and idr where I was trying to go with all that. Ig it’s just nice to see someone recognize how cold our minds can be even if we put out a warm exterior lol
I have a long-time co-worker who definitely seems to belong to the Alpha Quadra. She is one of the nicest people I know -- always friendly and helpful and kind, and she always tries to be cheerful even when things are hard. But as friendly and kind as she is, I've always sensed a strange inner "detachment" in her, which prevents me from confiding in certain things to her if confiding them means I've got to be a little bit negative. I noticed that anything that is even slightly negative cannot sit well with her. I can't figure out exactly which cognitive type she is (she seems too chatty and sociable to be an ISFJ, but too detached and analytical to be an ESFJ, but also too friendly, collaborative, and helpful to be an ENTP.... so I don't know what she is), but I'm pretty sure she is in the Alpha Quadra.
I am an an ESFP married to an ISFJ. I would say the only and very personal thing to them is their own experience. If my husband would have been forced to break his tradition, it would be so painful to him. I also noticed a huge difference between NPs and FJs. NPs (especially INTPs) can be soooo cold even to their own emotions. I was friends with an INTP who had talked to me about his breakup and when I asked him a very simple question "Were you happy with her?" He started giving me a definition of happiness and telling me how my question is not related to the conversation. I thought I had hurt his feelings, but he was upset because of a completely different reason.
@@jimclayson hm... So, if someone is sharing something emotional with you, and you go super Ti on them, it's just your way of helping? I haven't spoken to my friend in months because when I share something he immediately gives me his Ti analysis, where there is no room for me to be a human. For some reason my behaviour offends him very often and I have no idea why.
Another INTP here. We do tend to try and problem solve when someone tries to share something emotional, it's our instinctive way of caring (if we don't care you'll get apathy). If you tell us that you just want to be heard and aren't looking for solutions beforehand that can help, weird as it might sound. We get better at the emotional stuff later in life.
@@milenapetrovic2288 In socionics, it’s said that the alphas end up like a moth to a fire. Led by their curiosities, to their destruction. “…like a child's egocentrism-the inability to look at the situation from the point of view of another, a stranger.” So I don’t think they are acting malicious towards you or anything. It’s more like they really don’t SEE the world the way you see, as they are more led by their curiosities of “what if?”
@@beatofmyown yep. this kind of makes sense.... I used to see their Ti as maliciousness. It was confusing because on some level I knew that it wasn't maliciousness, but it felt weird. I think part of it comes from Fi users thinking that they are being ''objective'', but we are actually not. I tend to look for facts, but ''how do I feel about this?'' is such an integral part of my nature. that I do not even see it as a question in my head.
Very cool seeing pewdiepie here. I believe he is an intp so this is very fitting. He’s persona looks more entp but ones it comes off you can see the ti over ne preference.
This was such a good video. I am an Alpha quadra, an ESE to be exact and i do relate to this inner detachment you mentioned. I feel like I disappoint Fi types when they try to connect with me, because although we get along well, we cant go beyond the friendly stage. My deep conversations don't involve sharing how i feel but what i think. I feel afraid of the ideas my mind comes up with sometimes and i try to detach from them. Detaching from my own detachment 😂
Thank you, thank you, Aimee - for talking more about the Quadras!!!❤ I love how you describe each Quadra in a way that is so easy to understand. When I hear you talk about them, I can so easily think of examples of people from my own life.
I look forward to the Beta Quadra video because it’s the one I’m in. Alphas kind of annoy me at times but I find them to be harmless. Gammas strike me as people I can’t trust (just going by the fact that it’s the one I’ve been around most) and deltas are too low energy for my taste
as to ti response towards emotion, i’ve related to it as an fi user(delta). my reason is i’m sorta hyperaware of different values different people and observation of mislabeling experiences/emotions in myself/others (very attentive to words). but i usually have to it a motivation to figure out how to spend my time, who i am going to connect with, and are my thoughts/beliefs/perceptions correct. sometimes to poke holes in arguments.
INTP with an ESFJ father and an ISFJ mother (and an ESTJ sister, but that's another story), so yes, I know a few pretty well. Yes, the xSFJs definitely like gathering and socializing with other xSFJs. INTPs not so much, as we rarely like socializing period... and ENTPs don't really care who they socialize with, as long as there're where the action is. I can see where you're coming from, but your ideas of "judgement-free" and "speak their truth" seem to come from a very Fi-centric perspective. We're not "judgement-free" so much as we don't tend to take differences personally... and the idea of "your truth" versus "my truth" makes our heads hurt, as truth is truth and isn't dependent upon anyone's recognition or validation. I guess I'd just have to say "I'll validate you, for what you're feeling, but I just don't agree with it"... or at least not with certain aspects or applications of it, anyhow. 🤔🌻
@@jimclayson But as you said, if “you don’t take differences personally,” essentially, isn’t that saying you don’t tend to judge instinctively other people’s opinions…? It’s….judgment free?
@@beatofmyown I have no judgement of you, good or bad, for the opinions you hold. I just don't perceive that certain aspects of them, as stated, hold up to scrutiny... much as you seem to be implying of me regarding my statements. Have I been unclear on that? I certainly don't want to read into your statements something that's not intended. There's a lot of room for misunderstanding. I'm not trying to poke or prod or provoke, if that's what you're reading into my posts. Again, YMMV.
@@jimclayson I think when most people say 'judgemental', they mean moral judgements. I think this is what Aimee is refering to. However, you mean logical judgement in which I agree. If we get 'fighty', it's about things not making sense. If someone says 'I like having sex with pinguins', then the entp/intp be like "ok cool, if that's your thing" (as long as the animal is not clearly tortured by it). However, if someone says something that makes no sense, we can judge that thing they say and feel the need to correct it, in a similar manner a high Fi person may be phrone to correct other people's morals (A vegan who gets mad others eat meat for example). However, I do think both of you are basically right. Jim, my guess is that you're an entp? (haha)
Hi, Aimee! I'm back after watching all the quadra videos. I noticed that you referenced storytelling a fair bit when discussing the beta, gamma and delta quadras (e.g. mafia movies are beta, the hero messing up and then rising again is gamma, and fantasy worlds are delta). Are there also tropes or genres that remind you of the alpha quadra? Thanks!
When I think alpha Quadra, I think aloha shirts, South Park, family guy, weed, tie dye shirts, theme parties, etc. Just anything bright and lively. Lol.
I'm probably an Alpha (ENTP) but i see myself really getting along with beta quadra types specially after my graduation (I did philosophy). Yes, the world isn't black and white but after knowing some truths and foundations there are some shit that I just cant be passive and "hahha everyone can have any opinion". I was more like this desceiption when I was a teenager tho
Thanks for sharing! I don’t think alpha types truly believe that all ideas are welcome or equal. I think it’s more like they are the types that will probably DESIRE this type of environment, where sharing of ideas can be done freely without force, without judgment. And they don’t understand types, perhaps like the gammas, who are quicker to say “my values or the highway.”
This sounds like Se which is exactly what INTP doesn't have (even though people would say that INTP is like that but there are a lot of misconceptions about INTP on the internet). This sounds like: there are no rules, let's be free, have fun and push boundaries of everything, expand the comfort zone. The nonjudgemental is quite correct, these types are focused on being fair and judge by logic, not by personal preferences. Fun loving and entertaining the social atmosphere = Se (being the one who MAKES the jokes, Si can like fun too but much more likely to be entertained). INTP has Fe inferior which is like repulsion- so INTP is the most likely to be found where there are the least amount of people (because of fear of being bad at this function and fear of making people feel bad- so INTP isn't about making offensive jokes- INTP gives himself A LOT of boundaries and stays in comfort zone) which is also connected to Se trickster so not at all being the center of attention- but other SFJ/NTP types have higher Fe so I guess they are very focused on people (INTP isn't the type of guy: let's have fun together! and then start singing and dancing- Se ,but being behind the scenes, quiet and thinking). Ni critic= critical towards my wants/freedom- so if INTP says: I want this! The critic says: NO! (what about these other options, have you considered them carefully? Have you considered also what other people want?- Ne parent), Se trickster= not being expressive, not being funny (of course every type can use every function- I learned to be more funny from funny extroverts), Fi demon- not caring about self and my feelings, supressing myself- so it's not about positivity, SFJs and NTPs see hardships and catastrophy everywhere and use Si to endure them instead of fighting against them. Help the community and exploration of the universal truth is true for these types.
A desire to objectively express themselves Objective in the sense that it has to add up with the persons actual desire to express it But it doesn't necessarily line up well with the situation because that too is part of being human, a contradictory expression to ones own internal self impression Edit: Thats just the thoughts that i end up with as a reaction to your video. Not considering it as super accurate but it certainly should have some value
Hahaha so relate! My sist is ESFP-ESI/SEE and i am ENTP-LII/ILE. Her: i love this cat because this cat is cuter than this one Me: why are you picking favouritism for all these pets we have? That is so unfair to love this one more than others. That is not even logical Her: but i have a reason Me: yeah your reason is too subjective and too personal feeling based Her: yeah, the thing you dont have (She doesnt really know typology but knows that i am very much no favouritism) hahaha
Yes actually. In MBTI, I think people tend to confuse Fe with Se or something. So they think ALL FJs are “good with people,” but this isn’t necessarily the case for alpha Fe. Maybe Beta Fe?
I have and ISFJ relative who did not have a pleasant upbringing and ended up in a lot of vices including prolong and intensive illegal drug use (from age 14 to 45). In his core, he is sweet, considerate, outgoing and loves to cheer others up, BUT, when triggered (perceive himself to be bully by others, or actually being bullied, which happens a lot), will have a temporary violent outburst. So, there is a kind of Se component, but very transient. I always wondered if this was a PTSD or cognitive impairment as a result of drug-use in the past. He is 50YO. Can you pls weight in on this?
😊intp marries esfj entp marries isfj. This is probably the two most consistent matches of all based on almost 65 years of observation.observation. I follow the four humours. Offered by Dr Tim Lahaye,Christian counselor and author . Understanding the male temperament. Therefore to me Intp quates to phlegmatic dominant Sanguine secondary.melancholy tertiary and choleric least. Esfj would equate to choleric dominant melancholy second sanguine third and phlegmatic least. Probably the most consistent of all marriage matches
I think I get what ur saying about the "judgment free zone" (the way u framed it) but its not necessarily correct. When u said "complex of close mouth" and being "fun around" we are getting much closer. Rather, it's like a "No filter therapeutic podcast" where "Lets be real with each other on how we Ti-Fe think". U can explicitly say things thats in ur mind and even if bad, just make it make sense type of thing but if it doesnt, we'll figure it out as we keep talking. We can agree to disagree but surely our minds would want to convince the other naturally. A zone u dont have to worry about anyone getting offended (maybe just a little), lets Ti-Ne push the boundaries of our ideas and principles in this Si-Fe rules zone. Any NTP would like that and maybe the SFJ would like it too if comfortable (especially when explicitly stated u dont have to worry about the typical "Fe vibe") but our Fe concerns, Te standard pragmatism or the Fi sensitivity of others really gets in the way to say certain things we wish to say that we cant say! At least for me as an INTP, most of my conversations have almost nothing to do with my emotional state, in the moment sensory event, or pragmatic task (I mostly keep those to myself). Its perspectives of both sides, hypotheticals or past events I have confidence talking about. Granted, more podcast-esque convos like that may help to get to our shadow gamma side surprisingly once the Fe worries and Te "standard pragmatism" are irrevelant.
@@beatofmyown Yeah u wont ever hear it but on a lowkey, its something we yearn to say our perspective in a Ti context to at least one trusted individual. The detail in caps "Lets be real on HOW WE Ti-Fe THINK" is key because im not applying about how I personally feel (it might slip after a 2hr convo but its not the main goal), but what I deeply observed and thought about in a detached way. U have principles (alpha quadra) that u probably crafted in detail (Si) or entertained ideas (Ne) for years that at some point, you want a podcast like conversation with someone! It may be confusing because in a Ti perspective "lets be real" is not explicitly stated but implied (I'll "be real" based on my actions). Let me reiterate my quote about being real to be more clear. I'll make a basic distinctive example quote from a Ti perspective: "Let's go in a rabbit hole and discuss/debate about one or many arguments or principles for hours!" - Every NTP type ever. SFJ types would like to discuss rather than debate but at least they relate to NTPs about debating when their Ti is rarely strongly involved. Dependant on the person, I dont have to say it, I just do it and the Ti-Fe user gets it when the vibe/theme changes and adjusts accordingly if willing (and typically, we are careful on who to select based on the person's interest/vibe)! It "gets real" but not personally cuz no debate should be too emotional! And most likely on the deepest lvl, Ti just wants to discuss/debate for a mind exercise, develop their principle and critical thinking. So naturally, there's the idea of "I want to be challenged with someone else thats reasonable". Chances are, its cuz the alpha quadra is the most informative types (as all these 4 types prefer to inform then being direct as per the interaction styles) and wants alot of information or gives alot of information. Fi cannot relate cuz usually on the deepest level, no Fi wants to debate or be challenged (unless Te is involved) but express themselves on how they feel about something deeply to get rid of the emotional baggage/burden off their chest and/or be more "authentic" as they move forward. And when I speak to one of my Fi relatives, I notice myself making or remembering principles on the fly when she's talking about her personal story to grasp what she's implying or else like u said in ur video, Im gonna directly ask the question at times "what does this Fi baggage all mean? Do u want advice?" before speaking uselessly. Fi would be much better at making disclaimers bcuz they are not naturally trying to read the room like Fe. Hence "lets be real" will be intentionally stated by Fi-Te users to buckle up so the people around them are ready! I have heard one ISFJ from Joyce Meng zoom calls that they their Ti child wants to showcase they are little smart too, especially talking with Ti users (I heard Frank, an INFJ say that as well). So I think a friendly debate in a podcast like setting is as "real" as it gets from a Ti perspective! Hopefully u can understand.
"There's a detachedness to the alpha quadra that I think is the worst trait [of the quadra]" You're simply describing your conflict relations with INTP's lol. That detachedness is very important to the cognitive role that INTP's play in society.
Your interpretation of the Alpha Quadra seems really valid, but I question whether betas are more charismatic than alphas. If charismatic people are in fact influential, by definition, then I see alphas as being more charismatic. Most beta agendas go nowhere, or nowhere obvious, after all. However , betas tend to create a distance between themselves and others, which could be seen as charismatic (or just weird), whereas alphas have more charm and are persuasive in a gentler, somewhat friendlier way. They can be very charismatic, though, at least from my experience.
Alpha quadra cannot really solve new problems. They don't like to hear about feelings, because for them it is unsolvable problem. Or any other kind of problem. Gammas have to figure things out on their own, then discuss it with alphas and then they spread it around as "The truth". And their view as "fun loving" might be from the point of view of FPs. So that they don't have to deal with FPs feelings. As a TJ, my view of alphas is anything but fun. I was always very stable emotionally, so I just got jealous side of alphas. So when they felt bad, they had to make me feel bad too. Which is the other side of Fe
@@beatofmyown No. They go through all the emotions everybody else does. And as Fe people, they have to include others in it. So when they feel bad and I didn't participated as FP would, they would had to cause me problems somehow. I can observe it from 3rd person view now in my work. Fe people always need some designated person, which they blame for stuff. For anything. So they don't get blamed for it. Every Fe person does this. To avoid Fi/Te judgement.
@@jankom.7783 I’ve worked in this type of setting before, but I find this type of thing happens in delta Quadra settings in general. Not only for Fe reasons, for lack of better word. It’s more like in delta quadra, the emphasis is on personal comfort, and defending it. And this includes social stability as well. So if in delta Quadra, you are to be blamed for something, everybody ends up doing the “Not I,” and passing accountability. The person that’s lowest on the totem pole with the least amount of social security will tend to get the blame. Similar to Fe. So one of the solutions to this is setting up bureaucratic systems, dividing responsibilities into tiny tiny sub-responsibilities, so that everybody can focus on one thing and one thing only. So I guess this is how a lot of red tape gets created in a delta society.
@@beatofmyown That is Si. "I didn't do the mistake". So somebody else (Ni person) have to do it. Because Si people cannot solve unknown physical problems. Only follow instructions. But they do not have dedicated "blame" person on bottom of hierarchy that Fe people have. Delta people are Fi. Person to solve the problem is usually somebody in higher position. Which is what a bureaucracy is. Fe behavior is related to Ti: "I didn't do proper amount of work". Fe people are constantly complaining about either being overworked, or blamed for not working enough. Because they do not do Te thing of constantly update each other on who does what and then making decisions together. They don't like being told what to do, and result is that they don't understand how they compare to other people when it comes to responsibilities.
@@jankom.7783 My point was to say that we can all manifest the same type of behaviors. Just the reason behind may be different. I’ve definitely experienced being the “blame person” of Fi or Ni types as well. So I don’t think it’s that Fe people commit certain acts more than others. It’s just for a different reason.
I'm an INTP and I'd say that for myself at least the freedoms extend far beyond just speech. They extend to any action provided its consensual between all parties. At the moment it really sucks as nearly every platform on the internet wants to limit speech in some way. I can't count the number of forums and subreddits I've been banned from from saying something as innocuous as: It wasn't against the rules for that person to wear a t-shirt with a swastika so he shouldn't be banned. If you wish to make it a rule I guess but people shouldn't be punished for what isn't currently a rule. And we don't even know if this person supports the ideals of the Nazi Party. He could have used it as a method to unsettle opponents and put them off balance to gain an advantage in his games. I can't think of much I hate more than "I'm offended." In the words of Hitchens I have to respond that I'm still waiting for the point. Others might call it unhealthy but I'm not going to limit my speech because someone feels bad. If we all did this no one would say anything because any and everything can be found offensive. Hell I've been banned for referring to the animal racoon as a coon when the context was clear it was about the animal (was in a list of other animals) and its the word we use where I live. This person was offended because of my regional dialect. People are in control of the way they feel I really don't understand why they expect me to control their emotional regulation. Anyway great video.
I’m not sure what type I am, but I’m with you on that. If I was on that subreddit, I would’ve been very curious about what you had to say because it’s controversial and maybe there could’ve been a cool and interesting take that I could learn from, regardless of whether I agree or disagree. Or maybe if I really didn’t take anything away from it, I might think it’s a dumb take for me. But I don’t mind because I’m not gonna force that remark on people. I’m sure they have a reason for saying that to begin with. And while I might not take anything from it, someone else might. It’s just such a shame to see and hear people’s voices and actions (consensual between all parties) getting cancelled like that and them possibly being labeled as the villain without understanding the full story or context.
Speaking of the dark side of the alpha quadras, the recent news of Ariana Grande and her new relationship may be a part of this, too. 😝 Sound off below! ⬇️
great insights Aimee! As an Fi user the hardest part of having an ISFJ mom are listening to things that are (to me) clearly hurtful, she just goes like "I'm sorry" and thinks now everything is fine but for me it just doesn't work like that...
Thank you for saying this 😂
Sometimes it's very clear that they don't regret their action/words and just say sorry to correct social athmosphere
Yes I noticed ISFJs doing this too, it's like directing the blame away from themselves. Never sorry for their own actions, only for the circumstances that created it. I would rather they don't apologise at all.
I know someone who has a similar sounding situation, but the types are reversed.
I am an ENTP, I have Fi as blind spot, but I have realised that IxFJ say something like 'I'm sorry if I upset you' kind of thing. They apologise without knowing how they have hurt others, because their Ti thinks that they are right, but they apologise due to Fe, xxFJ types don't like others being unhappy because it makes them unhappy, so the whole 'I'm sorry' is just 'stop being like this'
"I'll validate u for what u're feeling, but I dont agree with it!" - Said with a straightface hits home
Bcuz of this, there are so many instances that I disagree of a particular detail, so I have to pick my battles on when its worth it, when I have the energy or when the detail is too big of a problem that it messes up ur sentence, statement, argument.
Nice to see an isfj type description video that doesn’t wildly miss the mark, even if this vid isn’t exclusive to them. A lot of people have toxic parents who traumatize them so they explain that to themselves by typing their parents as XSXJ and typing themselves as intuitive :( Very understandable but ultimately leads to people not understanding what real + non-toxic SFJs are like, especially the ones who aren’t nuns/nurses/Fred Rogers. This video does a pretty good job.
You’re one of the only typology creators out there who seems to grasp just how detached Ti can make someone, even if they are an FJ type. I really don’t feel/absorb others’ emotions much, certainly not deeply. But I can read+respond them pretty well. I understand my own emotions pretty well, but only abstractly and they don’t seem to inform my behavior very much, which has most likely caused a lot of the problems I’ve had.
Obviously we aren’t totally impersonal though. The SFJs are going to mostly be very personal+empathetic about others’ stories (as opposed to their feelings) and will feel very attached to our own stories (as opposed to our feelings). A big challenge for ISFJs is figuring out what to do when the story you’re telling yourself derails. This happens to everyone at some point, but for ISFJs, it’s particularly tough because
1. With Si dominant, something being a part of “our story” is almost a necessary condition for us to engage. We can get kinda depressed if we aren’t living out some kind of story because if we aren’t, we don’t do much.
2. We aren’t really grounded in Te goals or Fi identity+values, or even Ni reality.
We view our own wants and desires as selfish and will often resist pursuing them because we view others “following their passion” or “my truth” kind of talk as selfish (Fi critical parent).
Another problem we have is that SiFe makes us able to learn most things and fit in almost anywhere. This sounds like a good thing in theory (and sometimes it is) but it can make it difficult for us to really find our place.
Anyway that got rambly and idr where I was trying to go with all that. Ig it’s just nice to see someone recognize how cold our minds can be even if we put out a warm exterior lol
Thank you for sharing! 😊
More qudra based videos please 😊 thank u aimee keep going
I have a long-time co-worker who definitely seems to belong to the Alpha Quadra. She is one of the nicest people I know -- always friendly and helpful and kind, and she always tries to be cheerful even when things are hard. But as friendly and kind as she is, I've always sensed a strange inner "detachment" in her, which prevents me from confiding in certain things to her if confiding them means I've got to be a little bit negative. I noticed that anything that is even slightly negative cannot sit well with her. I can't figure out exactly which cognitive type she is (she seems too chatty and sociable to be an ISFJ, but too detached and analytical to be an ESFJ, but also too friendly, collaborative, and helpful to be an ENTP.... so I don't know what she is), but I'm pretty sure she is in the Alpha Quadra.
nah, there's friendly of social butterfly sweet little entp's careful to not judge on stereotypes
I know that feeling! Alphas are often extremely nice but very uncomfortable with negativity (which makes me a little uncomfortable)
I am an an ESFP married to an ISFJ. I would say the only and very personal thing to them is their own experience. If my husband would have been forced to break his tradition, it would be so painful to him. I also noticed a huge difference between NPs and FJs. NPs (especially INTPs) can be soooo cold even to their own emotions. I was friends with an INTP who had talked to me about his breakup and when I asked him a very simple question "Were you happy with her?" He started giving me a definition of happiness and telling me how my question is not related to the conversation. I thought I had hurt his feelings, but he was upset because of a completely different reason.
@@jimclayson hm... So, if someone is sharing something emotional with you, and you go super Ti on them, it's just your way of helping? I haven't spoken to my friend in months because when I share something he immediately gives me his Ti analysis, where there is no room for me to be a human. For some reason my behaviour offends him very often and I have no idea why.
He often tells me that I should pay more attention to what I say... And he is the only friend who does that.
Another INTP here. We do tend to try and problem solve when someone tries to share something emotional, it's our instinctive way of caring (if we don't care you'll get apathy). If you tell us that you just want to be heard and aren't looking for solutions beforehand that can help, weird as it might sound. We get better at the emotional stuff later in life.
@@milenapetrovic2288 In socionics, it’s said that the alphas end up like a moth to a fire. Led by their curiosities, to their destruction. “…like a child's egocentrism-the inability to look at the situation from the point of view of another, a stranger.” So I don’t think they are acting malicious towards you or anything. It’s more like they really don’t SEE the world the way you see, as they are more led by their curiosities of “what if?”
@@beatofmyown yep. this kind of makes sense.... I used to see their Ti as maliciousness. It was confusing because on some level I knew that it wasn't maliciousness, but it felt weird. I think part of it comes from Fi users thinking that they are being ''objective'', but we are actually not. I tend to look for facts, but ''how do I feel about this?'' is such an integral part of my nature. that I do not even see it as a question in my head.
Censorship, injustice, and gossip drive me up a wall.
I do over communicate and do not sugarcoat. I am an ENTP for sure.
the thing with this quadra is that they dont know when to shut up😅.They can become tiring when you're listening to them.
Very cool seeing pewdiepie here. I believe he is an intp so this is very fitting. He’s persona looks more entp but ones it comes off you can see the ti over ne preference.
This was such a good video. I am an Alpha quadra, an ESE to be exact and i do relate to this inner detachment you mentioned. I feel like I disappoint Fi types when they try to connect with me, because although we get along well, we cant go beyond the friendly stage. My deep conversations don't involve sharing how i feel but what i think. I feel afraid of the ideas my mind comes up with sometimes and i try to detach from them. Detaching from my own detachment 😂
Thank you, thank you, Aimee - for talking more about the Quadras!!!❤ I love how you describe each Quadra in a way that is so easy to understand. When I hear you talk about them, I can so easily think of examples of people from my own life.
I look forward to the Beta Quadra video because it’s the one I’m in. Alphas kind of annoy me at times but I find them to be harmless. Gammas strike me as people I can’t trust (just going by the fact that it’s the one I’ve been around most) and deltas are too low energy for my taste
Alpha here, with proud! Hahah I love fun conversations with others, people always said that I am very fun to be with 😃
as to ti response towards emotion, i’ve related to it as an fi user(delta). my reason is i’m sorta hyperaware of different values different people and observation of mislabeling experiences/emotions in myself/others (very attentive to words). but i usually have to it a motivation to figure out how to spend my time, who i am going to connect with, and are my thoughts/beliefs/perceptions correct. sometimes to poke holes in arguments.
Good stuff! Can't wait for Beta and Delta.
More for alpha pls, i need more information, and you explain things in a better way. Thanks in advance.
Wow, so interesting!! Now I really can't wait for the delta quadra :))
Thank you for explaining the Alpha Quadra🥰 very interesting!
Thank you Aimee for this great video about Socionics Quadra.
Looking forward for the video about Delta Quadra.
INTP with an ESFJ father and an ISFJ mother (and an ESTJ sister, but that's another story), so yes, I know a few pretty well. Yes, the xSFJs definitely like gathering and socializing with other xSFJs. INTPs not so much, as we rarely like socializing period... and ENTPs don't really care who they socialize with, as long as there're where the action is. I can see where you're coming from, but your ideas of "judgement-free" and "speak their truth" seem to come from a very Fi-centric perspective. We're not "judgement-free" so much as we don't tend to take differences personally... and the idea of "your truth" versus "my truth" makes our heads hurt, as truth is truth and isn't dependent upon anyone's recognition or validation.
I guess I'd just have to say "I'll validate you, for what you're feeling, but I just don't agree with it"... or at least not with certain aspects or applications of it, anyhow. 🤔🌻
@@jimclayson But as you said, if “you don’t take differences personally,” essentially, isn’t that saying you don’t tend to judge instinctively other people’s opinions…? It’s….judgment free?
@@beatofmyown I have no judgement of you, good or bad, for the opinions you hold. I just don't perceive that certain aspects of them, as stated, hold up to scrutiny... much as you seem to be implying of me regarding my statements. Have I been unclear on that? I certainly don't want to read into your statements something that's not intended. There's a lot of room for misunderstanding. I'm not trying to poke or prod or provoke, if that's what you're reading into my posts. Again, YMMV.
@@jimclayson I think when most people say 'judgemental', they mean moral judgements. I think this is what Aimee is refering to. However, you mean logical judgement in which I agree. If we get 'fighty', it's about things not making sense. If someone says 'I like having sex with pinguins', then the entp/intp be like "ok cool, if that's your thing" (as long as the animal is not clearly tortured by it). However, if someone says something that makes no sense, we can judge that thing they say and feel the need to correct it, in a similar manner a high Fi person may be phrone to correct other people's morals (A vegan who gets mad others eat meat for example).
However, I do think both of you are basically right. Jim, my guess is that you're an entp? (haha)
Hi, Aimee! I'm back after watching all the quadra videos. I noticed that you referenced storytelling a fair bit when discussing the beta, gamma and delta quadras (e.g. mafia movies are beta, the hero messing up and then rising again is gamma, and fantasy worlds are delta). Are there also tropes or genres that remind you of the alpha quadra? Thanks!
When I think alpha Quadra, I think aloha shirts, South Park, family guy, weed, tie dye shirts, theme parties, etc. Just anything bright and lively. Lol.
@@beatofmyown So more "Barbie" than "Oppenheimer"? Haha
I'm probably an Alpha (ENTP) but i see myself really getting along with beta quadra types specially after my graduation (I did philosophy). Yes, the world isn't black and white but after knowing some truths and foundations there are some shit that I just cant be passive and "hahha everyone can have any opinion". I was more like this desceiption when I was a teenager tho
Thanks for sharing! I don’t think alpha types truly believe that all ideas are welcome or equal. I think it’s more like they are the types that will probably DESIRE this type of environment, where sharing of ideas can be done freely without force, without judgment. And they don’t understand types, perhaps like the gammas, who are quicker to say “my values or the highway.”
This sounds like Se which is exactly what INTP doesn't have (even though people would say that INTP is like that but there are a lot of misconceptions about INTP on the internet). This sounds like: there are no rules, let's be free, have fun and push boundaries of everything, expand the comfort zone. The nonjudgemental is quite correct, these types are focused on being fair and judge by logic, not by personal preferences. Fun loving and entertaining the social atmosphere = Se (being the one who MAKES the jokes, Si can like fun too but much more likely to be entertained). INTP has Fe inferior which is like repulsion- so INTP is the most likely to be found where there are the least amount of people (because of fear of being bad at this function and fear of making people feel bad- so INTP isn't about making offensive jokes- INTP gives himself A LOT of boundaries and stays in comfort zone) which is also connected to Se trickster so not at all being the center of attention- but other SFJ/NTP types have higher Fe so I guess they are very focused on people (INTP isn't the type of guy: let's have fun together! and then start singing and dancing- Se ,but being behind the scenes, quiet and thinking). Ni critic= critical towards my wants/freedom- so if INTP says: I want this! The critic says: NO! (what about these other options, have you considered them carefully? Have you considered also what other people want?- Ne parent), Se trickster= not being expressive, not being funny (of course every type can use every function- I learned to be more funny from funny extroverts), Fi demon- not caring about self and my feelings, supressing myself- so it's not about positivity, SFJs and NTPs see hardships and catastrophy everywhere and use Si to endure them instead of fighting against them. Help the community and exploration of the universal truth is true for these types.
A desire to objectively express themselves
Objective in the sense that it has to add up with the persons actual desire to express it
But it doesn't necessarily line up well with the situation because that too is part of being human, a contradictory expression to ones own internal self impression
Edit: Thats just the thoughts that i end up with as a reaction to your video. Not considering it as super accurate but it certainly should have some value
Hahaha so relate! My sist is ESFP-ESI/SEE and i am ENTP-LII/ILE.
Her: i love this cat because this cat is cuter than this one
Me: why are you picking favouritism for all these pets we have? That is so unfair to love this one more than others. That is not even logical
Her: but i have a reason
Me: yeah your reason is too subjective and too personal feeling based
Her: yeah, the thing you dont have
(She doesnt really know typology but knows that i am very much no favouritism) hahaha
What lipstick color are you wearing? I think I might have the same skin tone as you, and that shade of red suits you so well
It’s the Kylie Cosmetics Lip Kit in Mary Jo K. 😊
But does it also relate to ESFJs? Detached? Individualistic? Not interested in the emotions of others?
Yes actually. In MBTI, I think people tend to confuse Fe with Se or something. So they think ALL FJs are “good with people,” but this isn’t necessarily the case for alpha Fe. Maybe Beta Fe?
I have and ISFJ relative who did not have a pleasant upbringing and ended up in a lot of vices including prolong and intensive illegal drug use (from age 14 to 45). In his core, he is sweet, considerate, outgoing and loves to cheer others up, BUT, when triggered (perceive himself to be bully by others, or actually being bullied, which happens a lot), will have a temporary violent outburst. So, there is a kind of Se component, but very transient. I always wondered if this was a PTSD or cognitive impairment as a result of drug-use in the past. He is 50YO. Can you pls weight in on this?
Hey, the discord link in the description has expired
Thank you for letting me know. discord.gg/wAXAeAMCsT Does this work?
@@beatofmyown yes it works. Thank you
@@outlandosdamour Awesome! 😊
The socionics explained tag doesn't have much info on it, tagging your vids with it might help with reach
Thanks for the suggestion!
@@beatofmyown you're welcome, hope it helps your videos spread!
😊intp marries esfj entp marries isfj. This is probably the two most consistent matches of all based on almost 65 years of observation.observation.
I follow the four humours. Offered by Dr Tim Lahaye,Christian counselor and author . Understanding the male temperament.
Therefore to me
Intp quates to phlegmatic dominant Sanguine secondary.melancholy tertiary and choleric least.
Esfj would equate to choleric dominant melancholy second sanguine third and phlegmatic least.
Probably the most consistent of all marriage matches
New mic????
I think I get what ur saying about the "judgment free zone" (the way u framed it) but its not necessarily correct. When u said "complex of close mouth" and being "fun around" we are getting much closer. Rather, it's like a "No filter therapeutic podcast" where "Lets be real with each other on how we Ti-Fe think". U can explicitly say things thats in ur mind and even if bad, just make it make sense type of thing but if it doesnt, we'll figure it out as we keep talking. We can agree to disagree but surely our minds would want to convince the other naturally.
A zone u dont have to worry about anyone getting offended (maybe just a little), lets Ti-Ne push the boundaries of our ideas and principles in this Si-Fe rules zone. Any NTP would like that and maybe the SFJ would like it too if comfortable (especially when explicitly stated u dont have to worry about the typical "Fe vibe") but our Fe concerns, Te standard pragmatism or the Fi sensitivity of others really gets in the way to say certain things we wish to say that we cant say!
At least for me as an INTP, most of my conversations have almost nothing to do with my emotional state, in the moment sensory event, or pragmatic task (I mostly keep those to myself). Its perspectives of both sides, hypotheticals or past events I have confidence talking about.
Granted, more podcast-esque convos like that may help to get to our shadow gamma side surprisingly once the Fe worries and Te "standard pragmatism" are irrevelant.
I don’t think I’ve ever heard an alpha Quadra type say, “Let’s be real with each other...”
@@beatofmyown Yeah u wont ever hear it but on a lowkey, its something we yearn to say our perspective in a Ti context to at least one trusted individual. The detail in caps "Lets be real on HOW WE Ti-Fe THINK" is key because im not applying about how I personally feel (it might slip after a 2hr convo but its not the main goal), but what I deeply observed and thought about in a detached way.
U have principles (alpha quadra) that u probably crafted in detail (Si) or entertained ideas (Ne) for years that at some point, you want a podcast like conversation with someone!
It may be confusing because in a Ti perspective "lets be real" is not explicitly stated but implied (I'll "be real" based on my actions). Let me reiterate my quote about being real to be more clear. I'll make a basic distinctive example quote from a Ti perspective:
"Let's go in a rabbit hole and discuss/debate about one or many arguments or principles for hours!" - Every NTP type ever. SFJ types would like to discuss rather than debate but at least they relate to NTPs about debating when their Ti is rarely strongly involved. Dependant on the person, I dont have to say it, I just do it and the Ti-Fe user gets it when the vibe/theme changes and adjusts accordingly if willing (and typically, we are careful on who to select based on the person's interest/vibe)! It "gets real" but not personally cuz no debate should be too emotional! And most likely on the deepest lvl, Ti just wants to discuss/debate for a mind exercise, develop their principle and critical thinking. So naturally, there's the idea of "I want to be challenged with someone else thats reasonable". Chances are, its cuz the alpha quadra is the most informative types (as all these 4 types prefer to inform then being direct as per the interaction styles) and wants alot of information or gives alot of information.
Fi cannot relate cuz usually on the deepest level, no Fi wants to debate or be challenged (unless Te is involved) but express themselves on how they feel about something deeply to get rid of the emotional baggage/burden off their chest and/or be more "authentic" as they move forward. And when I speak to one of my Fi relatives, I notice myself making or remembering principles on the fly when she's talking about her personal story to grasp what she's implying or else like u said in ur video, Im gonna directly ask the question at times "what does this Fi baggage all mean? Do u want advice?" before speaking uselessly. Fi would be much better at making disclaimers bcuz they are not naturally trying to read the room like Fe. Hence "lets be real" will be intentionally stated by Fi-Te users to buckle up so the people around them are ready!
I have heard one ISFJ from Joyce Meng zoom calls that they their Ti child wants to showcase they are little smart too, especially talking with Ti users (I heard Frank, an INFJ say that as well). So I think a friendly debate in a podcast like setting is as "real" as it gets from a Ti perspective! Hopefully u can understand.
Alphas from my experience all end up married because they cannot live without someone to support them
Why then are ESFJs stereotyped as being so judgmental?
Because these stereotypes are made by a bunch of mistyped people, who use their own experiences as a starting point to type others incorrectly.
"There's a detachedness to the alpha quadra that I think is the worst trait [of the quadra]" You're simply describing your conflict relations with INTP's lol. That detachedness is very important to the cognitive role that INTP's play in society.
Your interpretation of the Alpha Quadra seems really valid, but I question whether betas are more charismatic than alphas. If charismatic people are in fact influential, by definition, then I see alphas as being more charismatic. Most beta agendas go nowhere, or nowhere obvious, after all. However , betas tend to create a distance between themselves and others, which could be seen as charismatic (or just weird), whereas alphas have more charm and are persuasive in a gentler, somewhat friendlier way. They can be very charismatic, though, at least from my experience.
Alpha quadra cannot really solve new problems. They don't like to hear about feelings, because for them it is unsolvable problem. Or any other kind of problem. Gammas have to figure things out on their own, then discuss it with alphas and then they spread it around as "The truth".
And their view as "fun loving" might be from the point of view of FPs. So that they don't have to deal with FPs feelings. As a TJ, my view of alphas is anything but fun. I was always very stable emotionally, so I just got jealous side of alphas. So when they felt bad, they had to make me feel bad too. Which is the other side of Fe
Alpha quadrants were jealous of you because you’re emotionally stable?
@@beatofmyown No. They go through all the emotions everybody else does. And as Fe people, they have to include others in it. So when they feel bad and I didn't participated as FP would, they would had to cause me problems somehow.
I can observe it from 3rd person view now in my work. Fe people always need some designated person, which they blame for stuff. For anything. So they don't get blamed for it. Every Fe person does this. To avoid Fi/Te judgement.
@@jankom.7783 I’ve worked in this type of setting before, but I find this type of thing happens in delta Quadra settings in general. Not only for Fe reasons, for lack of better word.
It’s more like in delta quadra, the emphasis is on personal comfort, and defending it. And this includes social stability as well. So if in delta Quadra, you are to be blamed for something, everybody ends up doing the “Not I,” and passing accountability. The person that’s lowest on the totem pole with the least amount of social security will tend to get the blame. Similar to Fe.
So one of the solutions to this is setting up bureaucratic systems, dividing responsibilities into tiny tiny sub-responsibilities, so that everybody can focus on one thing and one thing only. So I guess this is how a lot of red tape gets created in a delta society.
@@beatofmyown That is Si. "I didn't do the mistake". So somebody else (Ni person) have to do it. Because Si people cannot solve unknown physical problems. Only follow instructions.
But they do not have dedicated "blame" person on bottom of hierarchy that Fe people have. Delta people are Fi. Person to solve the problem is usually somebody in higher position. Which is what a bureaucracy is.
Fe behavior is related to Ti: "I didn't do proper amount of work". Fe people are constantly complaining about either being overworked, or blamed for not working enough. Because they do not do Te thing of constantly update each other on who does what and then making decisions together. They don't like being told what to do, and result is that they don't understand how they compare to other people when it comes to responsibilities.
@@jankom.7783 My point was to say that we can all manifest the same type of behaviors. Just the reason behind may be different. I’ve definitely experienced being the “blame person” of Fi or Ni types as well. So I don’t think it’s that Fe people commit certain acts more than others. It’s just for a different reason.
yeah
I'm an INTP and I'd say that for myself at least the freedoms extend far beyond just speech. They extend to any action provided its consensual between all parties. At the moment it really sucks as nearly every platform on the internet wants to limit speech in some way. I can't count the number of forums and subreddits I've been banned from from saying something as innocuous as: It wasn't against the rules for that person to wear a t-shirt with a swastika so he shouldn't be banned. If you wish to make it a rule I guess but people shouldn't be punished for what isn't currently a rule. And we don't even know if this person supports the ideals of the Nazi Party. He could have used it as a method to unsettle opponents and put them off balance to gain an advantage in his games.
I can't think of much I hate more than "I'm offended." In the words of Hitchens I have to respond that I'm still waiting for the point. Others might call it unhealthy but I'm not going to limit my speech because someone feels bad. If we all did this no one would say anything because any and everything can be found offensive. Hell I've been banned for referring to the animal racoon as a coon when the context was clear it was about the animal (was in a list of other animals) and its the word we use where I live. This person was offended because of my regional dialect. People are in control of the way they feel I really don't understand why they expect me to control their emotional regulation.
Anyway great video.
I’m not sure what type I am, but I’m with you on that. If I was on that subreddit, I would’ve been very curious about what you had to say because it’s controversial and maybe there could’ve been a cool and interesting take that I could learn from, regardless of whether I agree or disagree. Or maybe if I really didn’t take anything away from it, I might think it’s a dumb take for me. But I don’t mind because I’m not gonna force that remark on people. I’m sure they have a reason for saying that to begin with. And while I might not take anything from it, someone else might.
It’s just such a shame to see and hear people’s voices and actions (consensual between all parties) getting cancelled like that and them possibly being labeled as the villain without understanding the full story or context.