I always love these explainers. As someone who has not read the books (but might start reading soon), it really helps to understand a lot of what is going on in the show.
Reading the books will be a completely whole new experience than what the show has been. The show is attempting to be another GOT’s, whereas the books are completely different… I suggest reading the books and enjoying the ride!
i read the books and also love these kinda vids. I would at least try the books in audio format. Rosamund Pike also does a super job also her in new spring book would be awesome
While the Heroes will not serve the Shadow, they don't necessarily fight ONLY the Shadow. As seen In Falme. And they don't seem to care much for what the hornblower wants. The first time, Hawkwing looks for the Dragon banner, implying they will fight only underneath it. The second time, he said it's a good thing they had the banner. Hawkwing also implies that they will follow only the Dragon. The first time Rand was there, and the second time Hawkwing said Mat will do as a commander since he is the General of the Light as agreed by the Dragon. The Horn seems deeply connected with the Dragon. So I feel it's odd that it was created so long ago, but that could just be the Pattern preparing for the Third Age (which is now my super cool headcanon) Also, you mentioned that the Great Hunt started 1000 years before the timeline of the books. In The Great Hunt Ch 9 (24:48 in the KR&MK audiobook), it says the Hunt is a tradition dating back to the AoL.
My theory on the Heroes of the horn: if Birgitte is spun out 14 times in ca. 3000 years, and there's a little over 100 heroes available, and they have a life expectancy of about 45, then there's 80% currently in TAR, and 20% is spun out, that's 20 or 21 heroes. If the Westlands make up 20-25% of the world population, that's 4 or 5 heroes currently living their lives. I think the reason Egwene didn't need to be Ta'veren in the book, is that she's one of them (Eldrene reborn). Two others might be Cadsuane and Lan, already being legendary/ heroes to their people. And there's Noal/Jain of course.
14:00 Actually I believe Mat's connection with the horn was broken when he was hanged by the snakes, or was it the foxes? I can't remember the actual names of those critters when he went to Ruidean with Rand. That's when I believe his connection was broken.
THANK YOU for this explanation. I only watch the shows, and I will probably never have time to delve into the books. I kept wondering what the heck the horn of valere was and why it was important, etc. I so appreciate this!
I always assumed that Mat was told what he needed to hear. If he was told that he was already a hero of the horn, early book Mat would have run far and run fast in the opposite direction.
I believe this too. I was 100% OK with them saying Mat is a hero in the show because I always thought he was too, he just couldn't bring himself to admit it.
Theory - The horn wasn't used in the age of legends because the horn blower used the horn during a time of peace while studying the horn. When the war started the Horn blower was seperated from the horn while choosing to fight for one of the choosen. The horn blower surived the war and live the remainder of their life in insolation. By the time of their death the horn was already hidden away from the world.
Did I miss it (was walking the dog while listening) or did you miss Bela and Jaim Farstrider? They were both definitely hero's of the horn and were pretty key to the last battle and how that went!
So far we haven't seen anyone cable of using the one power become a hero of the horn which is rather other. I always thought it might be against one their rules. Not even the female champion of the light was capable of channelling which was odd.
Not something that you missed, but... I just can't bring myself to believe that Mat isn't a Hero of the Horn. 😅 I know what they told him, but Mat asked them like: So uhh... I'm not one of you, right? Heroes get a flower on their tombstone & Mat wants to live a long comfortable life... except he doesn't, & he's totally a hero in all humility!
My guess is that the heroes get a choice whether they want to be a hero of the horn or be reborn normally, and Mat always chooses to be reborn normally.
Hey, I just saw your Jain strider video...for 4 years ago.... I thought I had seen all your videos...but anyway what happened to the Tinker in the kitchen song you used to play?
There are 4 certainties in life, death (unless you are a Chosen in which case balefire and a special burning sword will kill you), taxes, Ohio State owning Penn State in football, and Nae'Blis having a great comment on the white board.
So in this lore, humans created a device which trapped souls in a limbo space between rebirths to serve the one who blows the horn. This is some lore which disturbed me as a reader. The souls of heroes bound get no rest between lives. Maybe I'm reading too many ethical connotations into this.
@@afnanbogey the issue still stands that everyone else has no consciousness between rebirths while the heroes are not only conscious, but aware of the turnings of the wheel. They also only have each other for company over the centuries between rebirth.
I had a thought while watching this video. Do you suppose that all of the Ta'veren throughout history have been Heroes of the Horn that have been reborn into the world?
Brigita wanted the Horn hidden away? Did she not want it blown ever again? The Horn would become just another legend which after a time folks would either forget or totally disbelieve is that what she wanted?
I'm really not a fan of explaining the show using the books. - they are not the same story and don't use the same mechanics. - deciding if/when to explain lore is part of storytelling, and this feels like potentially spoiling the show ( a difficult call for episodic adaptations, I'll give you that) - for this specific show, I already feel like the writers have been heavily relying on the fandom to fill in the blanks for themselves and show-only audiences. I may be wrong, but I don't like letting the show off the hook of explaining its own lore by doing it _for_ them. This being said, if people are ready to dive into the book lore, even if it ends up contradicting the show, I guess this video is a great stop.
I was thinking if you have to explain what the horn is, the story tellers for the show didnt do a very good job... But again, I'm a book cloak or whatever anyone who is against the show is..
That thing on the show isn't a horn, it's an abomination. I'm not convinced it would even work as a horn. There's no leadpipe. The tubing is too big for the air to be able to vibrate. And it has no bell to project the sound. I have no idea what possessed the prop department to design something so incredibly stupid looking. Did they do any research at all on what horns look like? They could have looked at the original cover for The Great Hunt and designed something better.
@@hrbacon how do you think you'd make a magic horn? You build a horn then enchant it with magic. There's literally no reason at all for it to look like anything but a real horn. And we have centuries worth of examples of those.
@@Darm0k That horn style could have been all the rage in the AoL.Of all the things that bothered me about the finale, the horn design, while ugly, wasn't up there.
@@hrbacon I doubt that, since like I said, the odds that it actually works the way a horn is supposed to are very slim. Horns have to look a certain way in order to function. It's a tube that starts narrow, gets wider, and has a bell to project the sound. The tube can be curled in different ways, but it still has to be a tube that air flows through.
Are they f*cking serious with that horn?? I absolutely love this book series. I have read and reread it after book two whenever a new book came out. I stopped watching the show after the second episode. I was so excited when it started, but I just can not watch it.
It is supposed to be less than 100, not less than 12, and their supposed to ride down off the clouds, not stand around on a roof top...the show sucks at every opportunity.
I always love these explainers. As someone who has not read the books (but might start reading soon), it really helps to understand a lot of what is going on in the show.
Glad you enjoy them! Reading the books is so worth it
Reading the books will be a completely whole new experience than what the show has been.
The show is attempting to be another GOT’s, whereas the books are completely different… I suggest reading the books and enjoying the ride!
i read the books and also love these kinda vids. I would at least try the books in audio format. Rosamund Pike also does a super job also her in new spring book would be awesome
Then that's a giant blackeye on the show
While the Heroes will not serve the Shadow, they don't necessarily fight ONLY the Shadow. As seen In Falme.
And they don't seem to care much for what the hornblower wants. The first time, Hawkwing looks for the Dragon banner, implying they will fight only underneath it. The second time, he said it's a good thing they had the banner. Hawkwing also implies that they will follow only the Dragon. The first time Rand was there, and the second time Hawkwing said Mat will do as a commander since he is the General of the Light as agreed by the Dragon.
The Horn seems deeply connected with the Dragon. So I feel it's odd that it was created so long ago, but that could just be the Pattern preparing for the Third Age (which is now my super cool headcanon)
Also, you mentioned that the Great Hunt started 1000 years before the timeline of the books. In The Great Hunt Ch 9 (24:48 in the KR&MK audiobook), it says the Hunt is a tradition dating back to the AoL.
My theory on the Heroes of the horn: if Birgitte is spun out 14 times in ca. 3000 years, and there's a little over 100 heroes available, and they have a life expectancy of about 45, then there's 80% currently in TAR, and 20% is spun out, that's 20 or 21 heroes. If the Westlands make up 20-25% of the world population, that's 4 or 5 heroes currently living their lives.
I think the reason Egwene didn't need to be Ta'veren in the book, is that she's one of them (Eldrene reborn). Two others might be Cadsuane and Lan, already being legendary/ heroes to their people. And there's Noal/Jain of course.
14:00 Actually I believe Mat's connection with the horn was broken when he was hanged by the snakes, or was it the foxes? I can't remember the actual names of those critters when he went to Ruidean with Rand. That's when I believe his connection was broken.
Great video as always! You do a great job of pulling information together from all the nooks and crannies!
Ι kind of remember that somewhere in the books say that while the horn is bound to the blower, the heroes are bound to the dragon…
Another great video. I always enjoy the depth of your explanations.
Thank you!
THANK YOU for this explanation. I only watch the shows, and I will probably never have time to delve into the books. I kept wondering what the heck the horn of valere was and why it was important, etc. I so appreciate this!
I always assumed that Mat was told what he needed to hear. If he was told that he was already a hero of the horn, early book Mat would have run far and run fast in the opposite direction.
I believe this too. I was 100% OK with them saying Mat is a hero in the show because I always thought he was too, he just couldn't bring himself to admit it.
Thanks for the video.
Wasn't it the hanging that broke the link to the horn. Rand's Balefireing Rahvin should have made it so that he was never dead in the first place.
Theory - The horn wasn't used in the age of legends because the horn blower used the horn during a time of peace while studying the horn. When the war started the Horn blower was seperated from the horn while choosing to fight for one of the choosen. The horn blower surived the war and live the remainder of their life in insolation. By the time of their death the horn was already hidden away from the world.
Or maybe the hornblower joined the dark one and the Aes Sedai hid the horn from them.
Did I miss it (was walking the dog while listening) or did you miss Bela and Jaim Farstrider? They were both definitely hero's of the horn and were pretty key to the last battle and how that went!
Thought it was really cool they put a Roman legionary in the heroes of the horn!
So far we haven't seen anyone cable of using the one power become a hero of the horn which is rather other. I always thought it might be against one their rules. Not even the female champion of the light was capable of channelling which was odd.
Not something that you missed, but... I just can't bring myself to believe that Mat isn't a Hero of the Horn. 😅 I know what they told him, but Mat asked them like: So uhh... I'm not one of you, right?
Heroes get a flower on their tombstone & Mat wants to live a long comfortable life... except he doesn't, & he's totally a hero in all humility!
My guess is that the heroes get a choice whether they want to be a hero of the horn or be reborn normally, and Mat always chooses to be reborn normally.
Was there wolves when matt blew the horn in Falma?
Yah! Ty
Hey, I just saw your Jain strider video...for 4 years ago.... I thought I had seen all your videos...but anyway what happened to the Tinker in the kitchen song you used to play?
I shortened the intro a long time ago. Just get into the videos quicker
we have a number of Horns in this ages Myths and legends - not exact but existent
There are 4 certainties in life, death (unless you are a Chosen in which case balefire and a special burning sword will kill you), taxes, Ohio State owning Penn State in football, and Nae'Blis having a great comment on the white board.
It's A golden horn. Made me laugh.
So in this lore, humans created a device which trapped souls in a limbo space between rebirths to serve the one who blows the horn. This is some lore which disturbed me as a reader. The souls of heroes bound get no rest between lives. Maybe I'm reading too many ethical connotations into this.
i am hoping they had a choice and took one for the team
I assumed they were ‘trapped’ in TAR between rebirths anyway. The horn just allows them a premature and temporary release. Could be wrong though.
@@afnanbogey the issue still stands that everyone else has no consciousness between rebirths while the heroes are not only conscious, but aware of the turnings of the wheel. They also only have each other for company over the centuries between rebirth.
I had a thought while watching this video. Do you suppose that all of the Ta'veren throughout history have been Heroes of the Horn that have been reborn into the world?
Most likely not, as there are tons of minor Ta'veren hanging around, and Mat and Perrin are heros of the horn
Wasn't the Horn of Valere once blown by Louis Armstrong?
Brigita wanted the Horn hidden away? Did she not want it blown ever again? The Horn would become just another legend which after a time folks would either forget or totally disbelieve is that what she wanted?
That's because she doesn't want Elayne to use it for war.
I'm really not a fan of explaining the show using the books.
- they are not the same story and don't use the same mechanics.
- deciding if/when to explain lore is part of storytelling, and this feels like potentially spoiling the show ( a difficult call for episodic adaptations, I'll give you that)
- for this specific show, I already feel like the writers have been heavily relying on the fandom to fill in the blanks for themselves and show-only audiences. I may be wrong, but I don't like letting the show off the hook of explaining its own lore by doing it _for_ them.
This being said, if people are ready to dive into the book lore, even if it ends up contradicting the show, I guess this video is a great stop.
I was thinking if you have to explain what the horn is, the story tellers for the show didnt do a very good job... But again, I'm a book cloak or whatever anyone who is against the show is..
That thing on the show isn't a horn, it's an abomination. I'm not convinced it would even work as a horn. There's no leadpipe. The tubing is too big for the air to be able to vibrate. And it has no bell to project the sound. I have no idea what possessed the prop department to design something so incredibly stupid looking. Did they do any research at all on what horns look like? They could have looked at the original cover for The Great Hunt and designed something better.
Thank you! No body is talking how stupid that prop on the show looked, it was obvious that prop maker last day on the job!
There is a significant lack of real-world magic horns to base the HoV on.
@@hrbacon how do you think you'd make a magic horn? You build a horn then enchant it with magic. There's literally no reason at all for it to look like anything but a real horn. And we have centuries worth of examples of those.
@@Darm0k That horn style could have been all the rage in the AoL.Of all the things that bothered me about the finale, the horn design, while ugly, wasn't up there.
@@hrbacon I doubt that, since like I said, the odds that it actually works the way a horn is supposed to are very slim. Horns have to look a certain way in order to function. It's a tube that starts narrow, gets wider, and has a bell to project the sound. The tube can be curled in different ways, but it still has to be a tube that air flows through.
Gaidal Cain was not at the last battle
Illianers are the best people to find the horn ñ
As someone who gave up on the series but has read the books I cannot believe they made it so incredibly ugly in the show
Nice, a video about how we get the horn.
Of Valere, people Get your minds out of the gutter.
Are they f*cking serious with that horn?? I absolutely love this book series. I have read and reread it after book two whenever a new book came out. I stopped watching the show after the second episode. I was so excited when it started, but I just can not watch it.
It is supposed to be less than 100, not less than 12, and their supposed to ride down off the clouds, not stand around on a roof top...the show sucks at every opportunity.