Couldn't have said it better my friend!! Doc's fastball didn't "seam" to rise...like Bob Gibson and the "Express" Nolan Ryan it DID rise, and Doc's knee-buckling hook was like something out of an horror movie for hitters who faced him. 19 years old baby and that NASTY?!? Fuhgitabout"hit". I was blessed to watch him pitch in San Diego and his Cy Young "85" season was the stuff of legend...pure magic. Do you know of any full game videos of this his first start?
I just happened to be at this game in the Astrodome as a teenager. I remember how the pop of the ball hitting the catcher's mitt would just echo through the stadium. He impressed me.
1:34 Doc mentioned in an interview that when he pitched his very first MLB strike .... he knew he belonged. Right then and there he knew that he had it in him. What a pitcher ... a natural
Was a bicycle messenger in NYC back in the eighties. Ran into Doc at Park Ave and around 50 something street. He at the time was going through some personal issues but he was cool when I said what's up?.
That curve ball at 3:18. Masterful. Just froze the batter. I'm a Cub's fan but Dwight Gooden will always be my all time favorite pitcher. Best delivery/motion in baseball. Thank you Dwight
I saw an interview with Pedro Martinez that was recorded the weekend of his HOF induction. Pedro described in great detail how Dwight Gooden was his idol as he was growing into the pitcher he was working hard to become. He spoke about how his older brother Ramon introduced him to Doc later that summer in 1984 and Pedro was star struck and Dwight could not have been more nice and gracious which Pedro never forgot. Pedro also described how he patterned his pitching mindset after Doc Gooden. That was a great interview and speaks volumes about how great Doc Gooden was in those early years.
He wasnt good, Gooden was great. Rookie strikeout modern record.(276) Then 24-4 268 strikeouts 8 Shutouts and A 154 ERA! In his sophmore year,17-6 in third year and a RING.
@@juangarcia-ml1by Yup! I remember it like it was yesterday. I actually went to see Gooden’s first ever start at Shea in April of 1984. It was against the Expos. Cold cloudy and windy day. Sat right behind the plate in the mezzanine and you could hear the ball popping in catcher Mike Fitzgerald’s mitt as Dwight made quick work of the Montreal line up. The place was empty too!
One of 276 strikeouts in 1984-plus-I love those Mets pull over blue jerseys. I know they brought back a blue top this season, but would love to see the team rock a button less jersey.
I lived In Marrieta , Georgia when Doc was delivering. My grandfather was a huge Mets fan (Born in Brooklyn WW2 Vet). He got me loving Doc! This vid brings back a ton of nostalgia. Thank you brother .
Billy Doran, Terry Puhl, and Dickie Thon! Brings back memories of my youth when I started following the Stros. Gooden was destined for greatness. If not for substance abuse, he would be in Cooperstown. Sad story on Thon. On this day, he was still a rising young All Star Shortstop. A day later, he was drilled in the head by a Mike Torres fastball. After that, his vision impaired his hitting ability and would only a shell of himself for the rest of his career.
Doc also pitched for Houston. he's one of many, many players who started and ended their MLB career in the same city but with different teams. Gooden started with the Mets and ended with the Yankees, as did Darryl Strawberry.
at 8 years old his father began to teach him how to play baseball !!!! what an amazing player that listened at a young age and became a 19 year old first draft pick. hard work and his mom said in an "interview" " he did not get to be a kid" for all its worth- i thank this baseball legend for being an inspiration to kids.
If you can watch the SNY special “The Good Doctor”. Its a wonderful synopsis of Doc, what happened, and how those of us lucky enough to be there witnessed what is probably the greatest pitching performance of all time. At his age, in NYC, with that pressure and expectations and the draw of vice everywhere? What could have been Doc, what could have been. 😢 Edit: FYI, the guns back there where shit, Doc was throwing close too or over 100mph a lot of the time on those heaters. Just plain filthy.
Ron Gardenhire (Current Minn Twins manager) makes 1st Putout of Dwight Goodens MLB career. Cool. ( I stand corrected, Gardy recorded the assist, not the putout ).
+matt8863 I got Gardenhire's autograph on a Mets scorecard late in the 1981 season. I think he was called up that September. Both Ron and Greg Harris (another late call-up) signed my scorecard, which, being all of 11 at the time, I promptly lost!
You had to be there..As a Met fan since 1970,Gooden absolutely took baseball by storm in 1984.When he hit the skids a few years later it was a sports tragedy.
Met him at gas station near Vet, Philly. So friendly and nice to me. I thought he would not sign anything at the station. I was helluva nervous to say hello Doc. He looked at me then immediately I told I´m from Finland, your my hero. He smiled at me and came to me. I was godammit nervous but he took my pen and signed my Mets jersey. Even shook hand with me. He said are you going to a game at Vet. I said yes I am. Gave me paper to me..I said what is it..he said free access to Vet a way before other . I showed that card to ticket office and they opened door to me at Vet. They were just about 2000 fans at Vet. I had great time to see Mets players. Got a lot of autographs like Backman, Dykstra, Magadan, Viola, Cone, Myers, Whitehurst, McReynolds, even pitching coach Mel Stottlemyre who asked me wher´s my seat..When I showed my ticket he said too far you come here sit behind third base..3 rows up. he yelled at usher this kid will sit here at third row. I was soooo stunned really! So I sat on third row behind third base. Mel Stottlemyre made it happen true. He also signed my hat. He asked is there someone who you like to meet. I said Doc gave me this paper ( free access by Mets) and also let him know I´m from Finland. We had chat about 20 minutes. Doc came and said this kid is far away from here . He said what was country? Finland. This was my favourite summer. I met them in Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, St Louis and Houston. Best was St Louis I slept in same hotel with Mets players. In lobby bar we had a few beers together. Mel, Doc and Sasser we talked into wee hours. My best baseball summer ever!
@@MrJsfingers I meant that his fastball began to lose its hop after '85. He pitched well for several seasons with the Mets but his fastball was losing the riding action that allowed him to just blow hitters away.
A sulking, dirty, intimidating, downright menacing presence on the mound. The scowl, the slouch, then the hike and the beautifully violent delivery. Incredible to witness it.
Interesting how crude the commentating can be. One of the Houston talkers said, He must throw hard and nothing else (since he so young). Then Gooden, on the second batter, throws what became famous as that looping, Koufax-like hard curve. An unhittable curve, especially after all those lively, explosive fastballs. No comment at all. He didn't say, as he might have if he weren't so lazy, "Oh, man -- the kid has a devastating, lollypop curve he can throw for a strike! -- look out!" Embarrassing.
I was thinking the exact same thing. Laid two beautiful curve balls in there and no comment. People talk about potential and what could of been, but there has never been a more dominant season for a pitcher than his 85 season.
Good call! I heard so many commentators make so many unfair comments. I mean, ok, if you're watching WGN from Chicago the commentators get their paychecks from a company in Chicago so maybe that's why they talk positive about the Chicago teams and point out the negative things about the other teams. Tim McCarver talked strategy. He explained what options the teams had and how to approach every situation, it wasn't about playing favorites. I know if you ask Tim what time it was he'd explain how a watch works and that wasn't for everyone but he didn't play favorites even when he was calling games for The Mets. I remember one game The Mets were behind and Howard Johnson was at the plate and his co-commentator talked about all the charity work HoJo did and Timmy said, "Well, he needs to donate a ball behind the fence!" Lol
That's a beautiful story. Tim was a national treasure. I believe that he got fired by the Yankees for doing too good a job. There were people who loved Phil Rizzuto. And if someone is loved there is always a good reason. But I would have needed to be drunk and stoned to have enjoyed the Scooter. Give me smart analysis -- and wit -- any day of the week.
I agree about the lackluster commentary but disagree about Gooden's curve. Gooden threw a sweeping curve while Koufax's was a dead 12-6 drop. Pete Rose demonstrated Koufax's curve once by throwing a ball straight down into the floor.
Not to compare Gooden to Koufax but Gooden threw one of the best 12-6's ever. It wasn't a sweeping curve at all. But the sharpness wasn't evident in the first inning of his debut here.
"Gooden pitched in Lynchburg last night." Did anyone else catch that at 2:22? The Mets started Dwight Gooden after pitching in a minor league game the previous day?
I thought he was going to be by far, the best pitcher ever in MLB in history... I always tried to watch all his game, until he started going down the hill with some of the personal issueds that he had. Just to bad.
A lot of people like to point at drugs as the factor of his production drop and I'm sure that played a part but Gooden had already pitched 1171 innings when he was still 23 years old. I think the production drop has to do with the fact that he was overworked as a young pitcher and didn't have the same zip on his fastball anymore. He felt pressured to strike guys out because he had been so good before and didn't know how to deal with the pressure.
NAh it was drugs... I've heard that he started smoking marijuana actually first and then got into alcohol and cocaine. you're going to lose your ability if you're doing drugs ... I mean come on, what professional athlete can perform at a high level while they are doing hard drugs and a lot of alcohol... obviously you're not going to train as hard or dedicate yourself to fitness and well-being if you have a substance abuse problem. but the change was dramatic, he was basically a different picture after the 85 season, once you lose a little bit of that flexibility n the mechanics break down a little, then that's going to lead to injuries... sure he was overworked, but there's no doubt if he had been a fitness freak and really worked at conditioning and never did drugs it would have been a totally different career...
I wholeheartedly agree. Actually when he was on drugs he was performing pretty well. He went 19-7 in 1990 when he was 25, then had a serious drop off. That was still 7 good seasons. Doc and Fernando Valenzuela should be in the HoF, in my opinion, because of the excitement they generated to the league. Maybe that's my bias speaking though.
***** interesting post I pretty much agree with what you said Couple of things. I think it's amazing how quickly Gooden changed because even in 86 he was already a shell of the pitcher he was in 84 and 85 Just watching him and some of the UA-cam posts you can see by 86 he had lost the smoothness of his delivery and he had lost that flexibility and great mechanics and he just look like a guy trying to throw as hard as he could and really not in the groove anymore... and his fastball no longer had the real pop to it, it just looked flat I also think it's interesting I'm not 100% positive on this but I'm pretty sure from some of the things I've heard that he started smoking marijuana in 85 and that I think he could have even been better that he was, as good as he was that year. Because in the second half of 84 he was eight and one with a 1.0 0 era, which is just amazing I think it's a real shame that gooden came out just when the drug culture was really starting to take over because if he had come up when Fitness was really emphasized and good nutrition and guys really looked for peak performance it could have been a different career But I think unfortunately he couldn't deal with being so good so young and almost felt the need to just fall back into being just a good pitcher I do think you underestimate the 1990 season a little though because I remember he was really in the groove there and that was probably the best he's ever pitched since 85 What was unfortunate I think he was just unable to deal with the expectations and success and unfortunately turning to drugs just really ruined what could have been an unbelievable career
***** you definitely touched on what I remember about the 1990 season. I remember that gooden had some really bad starts where he gave up a lot of runs but when he pitched well he pitched really well and had a great streak of consecutive wins. There's four videos up on UA-cam of gooden from 84 to 86 and what they show is interesting definitely you can see by 86 his mechanics look off, like his mechanics had slowed down, and his fluidity was gone, and he was kind of trying to muscle the ball, and just his fast ball had no pop to it... But what's funny is that even in 85 his motion didn't seem quite as good as 84. In 84 he had a real deliberateness and much more purposeful sort of presence and power about how he went through his delivery mechanics and even by 85 it looked like he was a little less focused Anyway will be cool to see some more of the 84 and 85 seasons cuz he was really incredible and had some great games I love to see some more posts of those games But yeah I just remember his mechanics really changing and it's kind of strange to think because he was a guy who is still in his early twenties and it seems like he had lost his real athleticism so to speak Anyway the only thing that makes sense to me is drug use and a lack of real consistent training I mean at the pro level even if you lose just a little bit it's going to make a pretty big difference n here's a guy who was an incredible natural talent but if you're doing drugs you're not going to be the same and I think it really shows with him
Haha, the announcer is too funny. "He's young, throws hard, probably up in the 90's, and probably doesn't use a whole lot besides that at this stage." Basically he just gave a scouting report with absolutely no information to base it on other than his age.
He said he had Gooden's minor league stats and based on that (14 K's per 9) he guessed that he threw hard. That's obviously true. He was also right in that Gooden didn't throw much else -- it would be several years before Doc developed a third pitch.
Lazy commentating. One of them that he likely depends on his fastball, but right in that inning we saw four lolly pop curves, two for strikes. That was Dwight at his best: a blazing fastball with movement, and a lolly pop curve that he could throw on 3-2.
He actually didn't throw a curve until the third batter. One of the things did well was get batter to hit into double plays. You wouldn't think a strikeout pitcher with a rising fastball and a 12-6 drop curve wouldn't do that, but I'm guessing he had two fastballs: one that rose, and one that sank a little (2 seam and 4 seam). The first two batters here hit what would be tailor-made DPs, if there had been a man on first on either occasion.
The announcers mentioned the diffference in Gooden's age in his major league debut compared to Nolan Ryans. In his first appearanc Dwight was 19Y 4M 22D Ryan was 19Y 7M 11D So Dwight was 3 months 11 days younger than Nolan. In his career Ryan finished with 5,714 K's and Gooden finished with 2.293 K's
At 1:32, the announcer mentioned the Mets having a few teenagers who played for them. Well, here's one that tops them all. On June 10, 1944, 15-year-old Joe Nuxhall (later a Reds announcer) started his MLB career with the Reds. Owing to World War 2, there were very few men of prime playing age, and teams had to use whomever they could find.
At 3:03, Dickie Thon comes to the plate. At the time, Thon was only 25 years old, an All-Star shortstop who looked like a future Hall of Famer. The very next day, Thon was hit in the left eye by a Mike Torrez pitch, suffering permanent partial blindness. His season abruptly over, Thon was never the same player afterward.
Dwight Gooden had impeccable mechanics, with a picture-perfect release point. He rarely had any arm issues. His downfall was directly linked to cocaine and alcohol abuse. If he stayed clean (or moderately clean) he would have quite possibly been the best pitcher ever.
Hey MLB have you this game complete?!!? If so please post it. Also more of his complete Cy Young season games.Ya gotta have them!! C'mon MLB, baseball keeps and counts everything
OTRO CABALLO MI BROTHER EN La Lomita...YO VEO ESTE uniforme DE HOUSTON y ME LLEGO a LA MENTE COMO anhelaba ponerme UN uniforme DE BÉISBOL..😎💙💙⚾🙏🙏☝ GRACIAS a DIOS☝ MIJO JUEGA BÉISBOL YO JUEGO BÉISBOL..MI semillita YA LLEGARA EL momento y LA HORA⏳☝⚾💙🌱👤💪⚾👊👌😎
It didn't mean that much back then. They even had two different radar guns that varied by 5-7 mph from each other. (I hilariously saw Ron Guidry get clocked by the slow gun at 86 mph.) If it looked fast, it was fast.
Yeah, trading away Piazza was a real bone headed move. Was McCourt the owner back in 1998? I don’t thing Peter O’Malley who took over for his Dad would have allowed that to happen. Mike coming to NY was a big deal and helped those Met teams to get back to respectability. Plus his home run post 9-11 was huge. Piazza and Pedro in their prime together? Now that is something I would have loved to see!
+THEHIPHOPMENSA I don't think he has the numbers but most definitely had the potential but like cards1985 said, he chose drugs instead, what a waste...
Nobody chooses to become a drug addict. You have a young kid who all the sudden is famous and making lots of money and cocaine was a designer drug in the mid 80's. Some people can do drugs occasionally at a party and stop some can't. Unfortunately Doc couldn't stop. And if you can't understand why someone would even try a drug for the first time then consider yourself one of the lucky ones but by no means think that makes you better than anyone else
One can UA-cam Doc and his nephew Gary Sheffield playing for Tampa LL squad against the cheating Chinese (you know they're playing teenagers) Taiwan in the LLWS. Sorry...Doc was on the squad but was past the age limit by months(?) to play in the series. It's still a fun game to watch. The Tampa kids were intimidated to start the game, but battled back against the Chinese "freshman and sophomores" At twelve Gary Sheffield had the "eyes", fearless and born to ball...of any kind. Thank you Doc for the blessing of watching you "Balll" sir.I pray the Lord shine on you, guide and guard you and yours
One of the most beautiful deliveries, ever. So fluid, yet powerful. His fastball seemed to rise, and that curveball had optical beauty.
Completely agree, couldn't have said it better.
Couldn't have said it better my friend!! Doc's fastball didn't "seam" to rise...like Bob Gibson and the "Express" Nolan Ryan it DID rise, and Doc's knee-buckling hook was like something out of an horror movie for hitters who faced him. 19 years old baby and that NASTY?!? Fuhgitabout"hit". I was blessed to watch him pitch in San Diego and his Cy Young "85" season was the stuff of legend...pure magic. Do you know of any full game videos of this his first start?
I just happened to be at this game in the Astrodome as a teenager. I remember how the pop of the ball hitting the catcher's mitt would just echo through the stadium. He impressed me.
Beautifully written. I too remember that, especially when arriving early to the stadium to watch batting practice.
He was bringing heat all night.
1:34 Doc mentioned in an interview that when he pitched his very first MLB strike .... he knew he belonged. Right then and there he knew that he had it in him. What a pitcher ... a natural
He was amazing. Wishing you, Mr Gooden all the best. Thanks for the good memories.
Was a bicycle messenger in NYC back in the eighties. Ran into Doc at Park Ave and around 50 something street. He at the time was going through some personal issues but he was cool when I said what's up?.
One of the most beautiful wind-ups & deliveries in the history of baseball, PERIOD.
Beautiful to watch but was probably the reason why he didn't last.
My heart breaks for him. Unlimited potential, and a really good guy. But that damn coke. Good luck, Doc.
sometimes you just cannot go home.
@@oskartgrouch8757on 1996, he went home. Doc had a great career and a great story. A legend even today!
Feel sorry for the guys who did everything right, not talented guys who blew it with drugs.
@@jgc1077even better to not judge those who gave in to temptation, we ALL have sinned.
That curve ball at 3:18. Masterful. Just froze the batter. I'm a Cub's fan but Dwight Gooden will always be my all time favorite pitcher. Best delivery/motion in baseball. Thank you Dwight
that freakn curve man... uncle charlie..
What a season that was! The kid was unbelievable!
I saw an interview with Pedro Martinez that was recorded the weekend of his HOF induction. Pedro described in great detail how Dwight Gooden was his idol as he was growing into the pitcher he was working hard to become. He spoke about how his older brother Ramon introduced him to Doc later that summer in 1984 and Pedro was star struck and Dwight could not have been more nice and gracious which Pedro never forgot. Pedro also described how he patterned his pitching mindset after Doc Gooden. That was a great interview and speaks volumes about how great Doc Gooden was in those early years.
He wasnt good, Gooden was great. Rookie strikeout modern record.(276) Then 24-4 268 strikeouts 8 Shutouts and A 154 ERA! In his sophmore year,17-6 in third year and a RING.
@@juangarcia-ml1by Yup! I remember it like it was yesterday. I actually went to see Gooden’s first ever start at Shea in April of 1984. It was against the Expos. Cold cloudy and windy day. Sat right behind the plate in the mezzanine and you could hear the ball popping in catcher Mike Fitzgerald’s mitt as Dwight made quick work of the Montreal line up. The place was empty too!
On a side note, Dodgers could have had a Martinez dynasty but traded the great Pedro. Dodger fans knew it was a mistake.
@@encinobalboa Big time! Pedro should have taken his place with the other great Dodger pitchers: Koufax, Drysdale, Newcombe, Hershiser and Kershaw.
@@mattdon2164 Dodgers also traded away Mike Piazza in his prime. Mike catching Ramon and Pedro would have been mind boggling.
the pop in the glove on that last pitch.....wow!
Was such an exciting time with these up and coming stars making the Mets a contender back in the 80s
One of 276 strikeouts in 1984-plus-I love those Mets pull over blue jerseys. I know they brought back a blue top this season, but would love to see the team rock a button less jersey.
I lived In Marrieta , Georgia when Doc was delivering. My grandfather was a huge Mets fan (Born in Brooklyn WW2 Vet). He got me loving Doc!
This vid brings back a ton of nostalgia.
Thank you brother .
Billy Doran, Terry Puhl, and Dickie Thon! Brings back memories of my youth when I started following the Stros. Gooden was destined for greatness. If not for substance abuse, he would be in Cooperstown. Sad story on Thon. On this day, he was still a rising young All Star Shortstop. A day later, he was drilled in the head by a Mike Torres fastball. After that, his vision impaired his hitting ability and would only a shell of himself for the rest of his career.
It was amazing he was still a MLB quality SS after that, though.
Doc also pitched for Houston. he's one of many, many players who started and ended their MLB career in the same city but with different teams. Gooden started with the Mets and ended with the Yankees, as did Darryl Strawberry.
What a season. Maybe the best season ever
The first inning of what should have been the greatest career any pitcher could have had.
Doc was THAT good.
SIGH.
at 8 years old his father began to teach him how to play baseball !!!!
what an amazing player that listened at a young age and became a 19 year old first draft pick.
hard work and his mom said in an "interview" " he did not get to be a kid" for all its worth- i thank this baseball legend for being an inspiration to kids.
A year before this he was pitching for his high school time. That must have been fun.
If you can watch the SNY special “The Good Doctor”. Its a wonderful synopsis of Doc, what happened, and how those of us lucky enough to be there witnessed what is probably the greatest pitching performance of all time. At his age, in NYC, with that pressure and expectations and the draw of vice everywhere? What could have been Doc, what could have been. 😢
Edit: FYI, the guns back there where shit, Doc was throwing close too or over 100mph a lot of the time on those heaters. Just plain filthy.
He jumped from Single A to the bigs in a single day is impressive,
No one does the old-school high kick any more....
I went to a Yankee game last week and the Yanks starting pitcher always pitched from the stretch. Nobody on base!
Ron Gardenhire (Current Minn Twins manager) makes 1st Putout of Dwight Goodens MLB career. Cool. ( I stand corrected, Gardy recorded the assist, not the putout ).
matt8863 Hernandez made the PO. Gardy with the assist
+matt8863 I got Gardenhire's autograph on a Mets scorecard late in the 1981 season. I think he was called up that September. Both Ron and Greg Harris (another late call-up) signed my scorecard, which, being all of 11 at the time, I promptly lost!
You had to be there..As a Met fan since 1970,Gooden absolutely took baseball by storm in 1984.When he hit the skids a few years later it was a sports tragedy.
Met him at gas station near Vet, Philly. So friendly and nice to me. I thought he would not sign anything at the station. I was helluva nervous to say hello Doc. He looked at me then immediately I told I´m from Finland, your my hero. He smiled at me and came to me. I was godammit nervous but he took my pen and signed my Mets jersey. Even shook hand with me. He said are you going to a game at Vet. I said yes I am. Gave me paper to me..I said what is it..he said free access to Vet a way before other . I showed that card to ticket office and they opened door to me at Vet. They were just about 2000 fans at Vet. I had great time to see Mets players. Got a lot of autographs like Backman, Dykstra, Magadan, Viola, Cone, Myers, Whitehurst, McReynolds, even pitching coach Mel Stottlemyre who asked me wher´s my seat..When I showed my ticket he said too far you come here sit behind third base..3 rows up. he yelled at usher this kid will sit here at third row. I was soooo stunned really! So I sat on third row behind third base. Mel Stottlemyre made it happen true. He also signed my hat. He asked is there someone who you like to meet. I said Doc gave me this paper ( free access by Mets) and also let him know I´m from Finland. We had chat about 20 minutes. Doc came and said this kid is far away from here . He said what was country? Finland. This was my favourite summer. I met them in Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, St Louis and Houston. Best was St Louis I slept in same hotel with Mets players. In lobby bar we had a few beers together. Mel, Doc and Sasser we talked into wee hours. My best baseball summer ever!
Great story!
Amazing!
Young Gooden had some of the best life on his fastball, especially up in the zone, I've ever seen. It's a shame it only lasted two years.
You seem to know your baseball. Not many people use the term "life" to describe a fastball. You are correct.
No, he had at least 4 great seasons with NY. Two unbelievable and two great seasons.
@@MrJsfingers I meant that his fastball began to lose its hop after '85. He pitched well for several seasons with the Mets but his fastball was losing the riding action that allowed him to just blow hitters away.
Gardenhire though!
A sulking, dirty, intimidating, downright menacing presence on the mound. The scowl, the slouch, then the hike and the beautifully violent delivery. Incredible to witness it.
Those Mets uniforms...love it
Interesting how crude the commentating can be. One of the Houston talkers said, He must throw hard and nothing else (since he so young). Then Gooden, on the second batter, throws what became famous as that looping, Koufax-like hard curve. An unhittable curve, especially after all those lively, explosive fastballs. No comment at all. He didn't say, as he might have if he weren't so lazy, "Oh, man -- the kid has a devastating, lollypop curve he can throw for a strike! -- look out!"
Embarrassing.
I was thinking the exact same thing. Laid two beautiful curve balls in there and no comment. People talk about potential and what could of been, but there has never been a more dominant season for a pitcher than his 85 season.
Good call! I heard so many commentators make so many unfair comments. I mean, ok, if you're watching WGN from Chicago the commentators get their paychecks from a company in Chicago so maybe that's why they talk positive about the Chicago teams and point out the negative things about the other teams. Tim McCarver talked strategy. He explained what options the teams had and how to approach every situation, it wasn't about playing favorites. I know if you ask Tim what time it was he'd explain how a watch works and that wasn't for everyone but he didn't play favorites even when he was calling games for The Mets. I remember one game The Mets were behind and Howard Johnson was at the plate and his co-commentator talked about all the charity work HoJo did and Timmy said, "Well, he needs to donate a ball behind the fence!" Lol
That's a beautiful story. Tim was a national treasure. I believe that he got fired by the Yankees for doing too good a job. There were people who loved Phil Rizzuto. And if someone is loved there is always a good reason. But I would have needed to be drunk and stoned to have enjoyed the Scooter. Give me smart analysis -- and wit -- any day of the week.
I agree about the lackluster commentary but disagree about Gooden's curve. Gooden threw a sweeping curve while Koufax's was a dead 12-6 drop. Pete Rose demonstrated Koufax's curve once by throwing a ball straight down into the floor.
Not to compare Gooden to Koufax but Gooden threw one of the best 12-6's ever. It wasn't a sweeping curve at all. But the sharpness wasn't evident in the first inning of his debut here.
I think it was Fitzgerald that was catching for Doc. Notice he doesn't even save the ball to Doc's first MLB "K".
This game is so vivid, like it it was played yesterday for me.
Stylish windup with the high kick up.
"Gooden pitched in Lynchburg last night." Did anyone else catch that at 2:22? The Mets started Dwight Gooden after pitching in a minor league game the previous day?
...gdamn, miss this so much..
I'm amazed how Tom Fitzgerald tossed Doc's first major league K back to the hill.
Great memories 👌
I thought he was going to be by far, the best pitcher ever in MLB in history... I always tried to watch all his game, until he started going down the hill with some of the personal issueds that he had. Just to bad.
3:28 Doc's mom - DEBUT NOSE PICKING
oh my.......
Looks like she was up to her wrist. lol
Lmfao
they cut away REAL quick
Jeremy Almquist hmmm...nose issues...a sign of things that was to come.
we want more. i loved to see DR. K. pitch
A lot of people like to point at drugs as the factor of his production drop and I'm sure that played a part but Gooden had already pitched 1171 innings when he was still 23 years old. I think the production drop has to do with the fact that he was overworked as a young pitcher and didn't have the same zip on his fastball anymore. He felt pressured to strike guys out because he had been so good before and didn't know how to deal with the pressure.
NAh it was drugs... I've heard that he started smoking marijuana actually first and then got into alcohol and cocaine. you're going to lose your ability if you're doing drugs ... I mean come on, what professional athlete can perform at a high level while they are doing hard drugs and a lot of alcohol... obviously you're not going to train as hard or dedicate yourself to fitness and well-being if you have a substance abuse problem. but the change was dramatic, he was basically a different picture after the 85 season, once you lose a little bit of that flexibility n the mechanics break down a little, then that's going to lead to injuries... sure he was overworked, but there's no doubt if he had been a fitness freak and really worked at conditioning and never did drugs it would have been a totally different career...
I wholeheartedly agree. Actually when he was on drugs he was performing pretty well.
He went 19-7 in 1990 when he was 25, then had a serious drop off. That was still 7 good seasons. Doc and Fernando Valenzuela should be in the HoF, in my opinion, because of the excitement they generated to the league. Maybe that's my bias speaking though.
+Mene Tekel You don't have a clue.
***** interesting post I pretty much agree with what you said
Couple of things. I think it's amazing how quickly Gooden changed because even in 86 he was already a shell of the pitcher he was in 84 and 85
Just watching him and some of the UA-cam posts you can see by 86 he had lost the smoothness of his delivery and he had lost that flexibility and great mechanics and he just look like a guy trying to throw as hard as he could and really not in the groove anymore... and his fastball no longer had the real pop to it, it just looked flat
I also think it's interesting I'm not 100% positive on this but I'm pretty sure from some of the things I've heard that he started smoking marijuana in 85 and that I think he could have even been better that he was, as good as he was that year.
Because in the second half of 84 he was eight and one with a 1.0 0 era, which is just amazing
I think it's a real shame that gooden came out just when the drug culture was really starting to take over because if he had come up when Fitness was really emphasized and good nutrition and guys really looked for peak performance it could have been a different career
But I think unfortunately he couldn't deal with being so good so young and almost felt the need to just fall back into being just a good pitcher
I do think you underestimate the 1990 season a little though because I remember he was really in the groove there and that was probably the best he's ever pitched since 85
What was unfortunate I think he was just unable to deal with the expectations and success and unfortunately turning to drugs just really ruined what could have been an unbelievable career
***** you definitely touched on what I remember about the 1990 season. I remember that gooden had some really bad starts where he gave up a lot of runs but when he pitched well he pitched really well and had a great streak of consecutive wins.
There's four videos up on UA-cam of gooden from 84 to 86 and what they show is interesting definitely you can see by 86 his mechanics look off, like his mechanics had slowed down, and his fluidity was gone, and he was kind of trying to muscle the ball, and just his fast ball had no pop to it...
But what's funny is that even in 85 his motion didn't seem quite as good as 84. In 84 he had a real deliberateness and much more purposeful sort of presence and power about how he went through his delivery mechanics and even by 85 it looked like he was a little less focused
Anyway will be cool to see some more of the 84 and 85 seasons cuz he was really incredible and had some great games I love to see some more posts of those games
But yeah I just remember his mechanics really changing and it's kind of strange to think because he was a guy who is still in his early twenties and it seems like he had lost his real athleticism so to speak
Anyway the only thing that makes sense to me is drug use and a lack of real consistent training I mean at the pro level even if you lose just a little bit it's going to make a pretty big difference n here's a guy who was an incredible natural talent but if you're doing drugs you're not going to be the same and I think it really shows with him
Haha, the announcer is too funny. "He's young, throws hard, probably up in the 90's, and probably doesn't use a whole lot besides that at this stage." Basically he just gave a scouting report with absolutely no information to base it on other than his age.
then at 3:17 gooden throws a hellacious curve.
that’s how it works, people assume you are naive and inexperienced by your age nowadays. pisses me off, and i’m 15.
He said he had Gooden's minor league stats and based on that (14 K's per 9) he guessed that he threw hard. That's obviously true. He was also right in that Gooden didn't throw much else -- it would be several years before Doc developed a third pitch.
Having an exciting rookie is one of the very best things in all sports fandom
Lazy commentating. One of them that he likely depends on his fastball, but right in that inning we saw four lolly pop curves, two for strikes. That was Dwight at his best: a blazing fastball with movement, and a lolly pop curve that he could throw on 3-2.
A year later that "lolly pop" curve morphed into a Lord Charles that was SICK!
His curve was the best I've ever seen. I've never seen it come up when people talk of the best.
He actually didn't throw a curve until the third batter. One of the things did well was get batter to hit into double plays. You wouldn't think a strikeout pitcher with a rising fastball and a 12-6 drop curve wouldn't do that, but I'm guessing he had two fastballs: one that rose, and one that sank a little (2 seam and 4 seam). The first two batters here hit what would be tailor-made DPs, if there had been a man on first on either occasion.
Gooden said he was so excited, he walked to this game from his hotel room.
The plate umpire is Joe West. Still umpiring today.
Those were the days my friend!
The beginning of my favorite player
Him and David Cone - the two best Mets pitchers ever to step on the mound.
You are forgetting Mets pitcher #41. That would be Tom Seaver.
Pedro, Santana, Glaine
+666sikkinikki Glavine*
Nolan Ryan says hello too.
Was Mike Scott any good?
Dear God this is 30 years ago tomorrow.
Now 40😂
Crazy Hook
The doc! can't believe he was my age at the time. what am i doing with my life?
Youre not only one that has that same "wonder"
“I'd trade my past for his future.” - Sandy Koufax on Dwight Gooden
@ 2:04 how often do you see a pitchers MLB debut calling his own pitches? i don’t think that would ever happen today.
The announcers mentioned the diffference in Gooden's age in his major league debut compared to Nolan Ryans. In his first appearanc Dwight was 19Y 4M 22D
Ryan was 19Y 7M 11D So Dwight was 3 months 11 days younger than Nolan. In his career Ryan finished with 5,714 K's and Gooden finished with 2.293 K's
At 1:32, the announcer mentioned the Mets having a few teenagers who played for them. Well, here's one that tops them all. On June 10, 1944, 15-year-old Joe Nuxhall (later a Reds announcer) started his MLB career with the Reds. Owing to World War 2, there were very few men of prime playing age, and teams had to use whomever they could find.
At 3:03, Dickie Thon comes to the plate. At the time, Thon was only 25 years old, an All-Star shortstop who looked like a future Hall of Famer. The very next day, Thon was hit in the left eye by a Mike Torrez pitch, suffering permanent partial blindness. His season abruptly over, Thon was never the same player afterward.
Beautiful uniform matchup
I saw him in Lynchburg. A man throwing to boys. Struck out 300. Called up to AAA and won 2 games in that WS. We called that curve "Lord Charles".
...the memories
Doctor K - was killer on the diamond!
Dwight Gooden had impeccable mechanics, with a picture-perfect release point.
He rarely had any arm issues.
His downfall was directly linked to cocaine and alcohol abuse.
If he stayed clean (or moderately clean) he would have quite possibly been the best pitcher ever.
I was almost 4 years old!
Yes, very impressive, but also with the Yankees where he learned how to pitch without that blazing fastball. 194 and 112 was his record.
nobody was more dominate on the mound than Dwight
I seem to remember Doc having uniform #64 at the beginning of his career. Or am I thinking of Spring Training 1984??
Gardy! Showing some sound fundamentals at second.
Why doesn't MLB post entire game?
Just got a otigraf with him today yayyyyyy and I got a picture
Poetry in motion
Hey MLB have you this game complete?!!? If so please post it. Also more of his complete Cy Young season games.Ya gotta have them!! C'mon MLB, baseball keeps and counts everything
Beast
If I'm right, this is the late great Jim Durham on the call
Wow ‘84 doc Gooden. Doesn’t get better than that. That’s the same as 2000 Britney or ‘90s Jordan.👍🏻
Back when you didn’t need a pitch clock to get the players to keep the game moving
Lord Charles baffled Thon.
The world became a better place on November 16,1964 with the birth of Dwight Eugene Gooden in Tampa,FL!!!!!
OTRO CABALLO MI BROTHER EN La Lomita...YO VEO ESTE uniforme DE HOUSTON y ME LLEGO a LA MENTE COMO anhelaba ponerme UN uniforme DE BÉISBOL..😎💙💙⚾🙏🙏☝ GRACIAS a DIOS☝ MIJO JUEGA BÉISBOL YO JUEGO BÉISBOL..MI semillita YA LLEGARA EL momento y LA HORA⏳☝⚾💙🌱👤💪⚾👊👌😎
The beginning of the K corner anywhere and everywhere!!!!!!!!
Gooden is all time best! Him and Pedro Martinez.
Those two and Tommy John and Sid Fernandez my favorites to watch.
Haha. I put this on to see the great Dwight Gooden pitch and all anybody wants to focus on is mom digging. It was pretty funny though haha
Thrust Johnson true. It’s amazing to me that the Mets only won one championship. That’s more amazing than the video clip
Now I see why opponents called Gooden's curveball "Sir Charles" instead of "Uncle Charlie".
His son was on my baseball team!!
"He throws hard...probably in the 90s I'm assuming." Crazy, that's a given now, with high 90s actually.
It didn't mean that much back then. They even had two different radar guns that varied by 5-7 mph from each other. (I hilariously saw Ron Guidry get clocked by the slow gun at 86 mph.) If it looked fast, it was fast.
Pure smoke
One time I went to Shea and he hit a home run and a double.
Was the HR in the first inning? If so, I was there too. The Mets led 7-0 going into the top of the 2nd. Fairly certain he hit a grand slam.
Pick me a winner Mrs Gooden
Yeah, trading away Piazza was a real bone headed move. Was McCourt the owner back in 1998? I don’t thing Peter O’Malley who took over for his Dad would have allowed that to happen. Mike coming to NY was a big deal and helped those Met teams to get back to respectability. Plus his home run post 9-11 was huge. Piazza and Pedro in their prime together? Now that is something I would have loved to see!
Doc is one of the best. I was also a teen when he started with the Mets.
@4:04 Gas!!!! 🔥
"DOC GOODEN" THE NAME SAYS IT ALL !!!
Wow.
Wow! At 3:26 the camera cuts to his parents sitting in the stands. And his mom starts picking her nose. So unfortunate.
Mom was digging deep.
4:05 Catcher (Mike Fitzgerald?) casually flips ball back to the mound - Come on man, that's Doc's first strikeout. Be better
3:29 Tommy Lasorda had that habit.
Great pitcher who should have been a hall of famer, but he decided to get high instead.
+THEHIPHOPMENSA I don't think he has the numbers but most definitely had the potential but like cards1985 said, he chose drugs instead, what a waste...
Gooden's loopy motion was most of the reason he didn't dominate for very long. Too much stress on the shoulder as he lost flexibility.
Nobody chooses to become a drug addict. You have a young kid who all the sudden is famous and making lots of money and cocaine was a designer drug in the mid 80's. Some people can do drugs occasionally at a party and stop some can't. Unfortunately Doc couldn't stop. And if you can't understand why someone would even try a drug for the first time then consider yourself one of the lucky ones but by no means think that makes you better than anyone else
Why the fuck would you try an illegal drug? I never even smoked a cigarette let alone took cocaine
@@yobrock1617 Respect
Change title
One can UA-cam Doc and his nephew Gary Sheffield playing for Tampa LL squad against the cheating Chinese (you know they're playing teenagers) Taiwan in the LLWS. Sorry...Doc was on the squad but was past the age limit by months(?) to play in the series. It's still a fun game to watch. The Tampa kids were intimidated to start the game, but battled back against the Chinese "freshman and sophomores" At twelve Gary Sheffield had the "eyes", fearless and born to ball...of any kind. Thank you Doc for the blessing of watching you "Balll" sir.I pray the Lord shine on you, guide and guard you and yours
shit.....what was i doing as a 19 year old?