Just FYI. I deleted a comment from someone that "Asked" or should I say accused me of stealing a copy written image on this video. I should have left the comment there and responded directly, but I can't stand those kind of people. First of all I own the license to the bear image in the video. I have extended licensing rights to it. Secondly what kind of asshole responds to a video like this with an accusation that I am stealing shit. If you are that worried about it as a concerned citizen send a private message and ask. To the person who commented thanks for the lecture, but no thanks I'm a big boy I know how to conduct my business.
@@hyperhektor7733 you have to look at it from my standpoint. I made about $300 making several plaques for teachers. I also made over $1000 on this video. It was worth the investment.
I just came across your channel upon looking up Shapeoko. I have to say I think it was a great video. No fluff, the right info and details along with some great pointers. Liked and subscribed. Thanks for sharing.
Nice sign. I found that the process that works the best for me on a colored v-carve is to plane the board to thickness first - primarily to pre-set the planer thickness for later. Carve the project, but set the Z-zero height to be ~30 thousandths below the surface of the wood. Paint, then plane again with the plane thickness lowered 1/32" (the 30 thousandths you went below the wood surface) instead of sanding off the paint. Seems to do a great job at eliminating the pores of the wood having hints of paint left in it, and no more sanding disks bogged down with paint.
That's a great idea to plane off the paint... I like it. I'm just curious if the paint would dull the high speed steel knives in the planer. I don't yet have a helical head with carbide inserts.
@@ronmisiura9169 I haven't noticed any additional wear, but I've only done this a couple dozen times. My planer uses the traditional HSS blades too, looking forward to a helical upgrade someday.
Very nice work. I use shellac for my first sealer coat. I made my own touch plate for a piece of aluminum. With that you can do a point cloud and some auto height correction to make all the lines perfect.
$30 for a sign for a friend is fine. But by the time you figure in design time, routing time, finishing, electricity, replacing worn out bits, paint, sandpaper, and clear coat, doubling the price would still be on the low side. (In fact my pricing guide for a sign that size in the grid for lowest overhead, aka home business, shows a price of $62.44. Most dedicated sign shops would sell that for $75 to $100) Even if it's a hobby business, you don't have to undercut the pros by a ton of money. If you are way too cheap, you'll get so busy you'll start to hate doing the projects. If you are pricing right you'll make decent money and not burn yourself out. Too many people underestimate what people will pay for the kind of stuff made on a CNC. After all, they're coming to you because they can't do it themselves. Actually you should put at least 5 to 10 % of every job's profit away. Someday that machine is going to wear out and need replacing. All the jobs that wore out your machine should be paying for the new one.
@NW3D You don't get the point. When enough people cheapen a product by not knowing how to charge, the whole industry suffers. In the sign industry, sign shops are getting about the same amount of money to letter up 2 doors on a truck as sign painters received in the 1950's, about $150 which would be equal to over $1500 in today's money. Technology made it possible for anyone to buy a machine and a computer and become a sign maker. These new sign "artists" had no idea about proper design layout and no knowledge of how to price. Cutting prices to get work is all they knew about marketing. BTW, the steppers on my router are $200 a piece and my spindle was $5000. The stepper you quoted is for toy cnc's.
Exactly, over saturation of the market along with undercut pricing leads to everyone suffering. I'm a cabinet maker and have to compete against handyman with a portable tablesaw from home cheapo and face nailed face frames. Luckily I have great clients who appreciate craftsmanship.
Is someone with a "toy" CNC really cutting into your market share that much? Yes, the market is a crap shoot now, but things should balance out in time. Low cost "toy" machines are widely available and cheap. These people will realize that they can't make a living for the prices they are charging, get bored and move on, or up the ante. People who want quality will buy quality, and people who are cheap will go to the "toy" machine operators. You professionals have three choices. Ride it out, adapt, or go out of business. It is the unfortunate reality of the free market. The question is, do you add value? What do you do that sets you apart from the "toy" CNC operators? Other than the fact that you hate that you paid the price of a car for your machines. Basically, it comes down to quality and experience. If you can't beat out an amateur, then what are you doing? Find a part of the market that will value you. Or buy a bunch of "toy" machines that you can use for your cheap customers, and use your expensive machine for the customers that care about quality. Create cool things that the "toy" operators can't.
That's like telling an artist to give up, your work can be mass produced for pennies. Be kind to the artist. Programming skills are still where it has always been. In demand. Design skills will always make to a great living-till some one copies your stuff and signs your name.
The best way to make lots of new friends is still to have a trailer. And a close second is to have a welder ... but there is a good argument for a CNC router being right up there too.
This was very kind of you to share so much of the process that you followed to create this piece. If you only priced this at $30 your customer got a real good price!
A couple things you can do to speed up setups is screw down a straight edge in X & Y to bump parts. My corner location is Origin 1 and then origins 2 thru 4 every inch in X. I cut a line every inch in the straight edge to show the origin locations so now, depending on the size of work and where the hold down t tracks are I just locate the part on the table and pick my origin in the control I want to move to. I use a cheat stick that is cut in a U shape to bump the parts consistently. I rarely set X & Y because they are already defined. I program everything from the bottom left corner for repeatability. If I need to add a feature or re run something my parts go right back where they were originally.
Wish I had the space and money for this CNC stuff. Would be fun. One trick I heard about for setting the z axis is to get the spindle close to the piece, then loosen the bit so it touches, then tighten the collet.
I have watched 10 of your videos so far and subscribed. I admire your transparency. I appreciate your format, the fact that you go from idea to completion through all steps of a project. Please continue with your style.
I loved the video. I must apologize for all the trolls that have high jacked the comments. I get it -- its a video on how to create a sign, not a video on how to price your work. Please don't let the trolls discourage you from creating videos like this.
This is more or less how I used to do this. Now I sand the wood with 220 grit, then put shelf paper on it and then do my v-carving. Note: DO THE V-CARVING FIRST! Do the flat area clearance next. If you do the flat area clearance first, it'll rip up your shelf paper. The V-bit will cut cleanly, leaving the v-carve exposed and the top surface covered. I usually remove the shelf paper from the wood to be cleared by the flat area bit after the v-carve (doesn't help any and the clearance bit will just chew it up anyway). Remove from machine, paint, then remove the shelf paper. It's not perfect, but at least 80% of the time, there's no sanding involved afterward, saving a ton of time.
I understand the convenience of running over to a Big Box Store to grab onsie-twosie pieces of wood. However, if you are in the business of using wood for quality projects; your local lumberyard, saw-mill, or forest are a much better option. Great Video, and Thanks for the Upload!
Thank you, I like this idea and am looking into getting a CNC to do this, I think it would be a good hobby / pocket change kind of a deal. It would be fun to go to flee markets on weekends and cut some signs or anything, meet new people and just have a nice day and if you make a buck or two thats a plus. thanks again, I like that the machine can be doing something while I can BS with people or be doing other things.. I still have the templates when we did this stuff with a router ( Not the computer type) Thanks again
@stufftokeepyouentertained I realize this is an old thread, and I just found your channel. I have 0 CNC experience, but a fair amount with robotics. I assume the stutter you see is from some sort of step count in the g-code. It seems more like it moves (for example) a 100 counts, minor pause, then another 100 counts. That is pure speculation though on my part. Hopefully you eventually found out the real answer to this! Thanks for your channel, your helping this newbie out with all of my questions.
13:22 "nurse symbol" It's called Caduceus and it's not only the symbol of nurses, but the symbol of medicine as a whole. Great work. I'm sure the school nurse will be very proud to display this plaque in the aid station.
If you do not have a touch plate just build yourself a bit holder that will set it self against the collect the same everytime. Then set the bit in the holder. Insert the bit into the collect until your mini "jig" contacts the collet or whatever you can get it to repeat to every time and the bits will all be the same distance from the collet. Sometimes you gotta use your head for more than a hat-rack.
SUGGESTION: There are cnc videos that show how to do wood inlays for your bear and medical symbol. The plaque will hold up better over time. Seeing what you made in your garage gives me great hope for success. Thanks.
Your lines our not as deep at the top because your table surface in uneven - need to resurface. Also, try using Oramask 813 paint mask - it'll save you a ton of elbow grease. Lastly, coat both sides with equal number of clear coats to prevent warping. Thanks for sharing
People are talking about using a vinyl mask and I think it depends on the design and the thickness of the paint. For complex designs and thin paint, I think sanding is easier than vinyl.
If you don't want to use a touch plate, use a 1-2-3 block. You'll have to subtract whatever the dimension is, but it sets a constant reference from whatever face you;re touching your tools off from and makes sure you have the distances exactly right.
Very interesting. A couple of questions if you don’t mind Why don’t/wouldn’t you lacquer the whole surface before any engraving? Doesn’t the lacquer interfere with where you do want the paint to stay? If you wanted “Nurse Hall” to be painted (say white), could/would you paint that area before engraving - with the engraving just leaving the words in white?
The Stutter has to do with the pulses going to the motors. If the resolution iv high, say 16 miny steps per step, the computer sends a very high pulse rate in high speeds. The motors at that frequency rate enter a resonance mode and do the things you were pointing..............If you carve at that speed you will notice that steps are being lost. try to 1 lower the resolution or slow down the max speed a bit.
That studdering while jogging is normal. When you hold down the key, you are not sending a single "go" command, but filling the buffer with continual presses. After the first press there is a delay, and grbl runs deceleration instead of a junction to another move. Hey, its grbl, its amazing it works to begin with, but its a piss poor motion system.
I can't tell you how many time I have forgotten to zero my Z after a bit change. Loved the video and really loved the music, I'm a die hard blues fan. "Bonamassa Rules" LOL
Could you router threw masking tape or Frisket film so that once the routing is done you just paint as you did but then pull the tape or film off and you wouldn't have to sand as much? You could even do colored epoxy in the grooves which you could sand and clear coat to give a cool depth effect.
That is a very nice sign really like the different elevations very well done . I am trying to buy my first cnc . I have been trying to learn how carbide create works. I can't figure out why when i do a pocket everything gets routed out. I can engraved inside the pocket but I can't do raise letters like your design. Are you showing by any chance how you did it
I don't know how I didn't see this comment until now, but yes I have upgraded, and it still happens. It doesn't seem to effect anything. I have had several other people say theirs does the same thing, so I stopped worrying about it.
Really nice work. I like the sealer step. That made all the difference. It stabilized the work surface. I like the "now I hope this will all come off" talking about the paint on the sanding step. That's how it feels doesn't it? If you had some cracks that had paint in them where you did not want it, you could come back with a dark paint over that, and sand again.
I came to the comments section just for this and am baffled, why this hasn‘t made it the top. Thank you very much for answering this question and the video in general!
So you did all this with the carbide sw? You don't have to have one program for design and another to generate the G-Code? the makerspace at my company has one of these and I'm excited to try it! Turns out lots of people use lots of software it sounds like
Great job on both your project and your honesty.. Your video style is true and real and as newbie to cnc it's appreciated. 2 comments.. 1. I use a dremel with fine tools for the detail clean up (mini sanders and deburring tips). That might help you. And 2. Charge more for your projects. Its a craft and that takes valuable time away from your family and there are expenses that you'll need to recoup. You are an expert in your field regardless of how comfortable you feel with your progress. Keep the videos coming and thank you for doing it. Great job!
One suggestion & One question. Have you ever considered using a 'square-cornered boarder' on a sign like this? It seems it would give the sign a more 'finished' look. (Just an opinion.) You mention you plan on purchasing 'Shapeoko's bit positioning Puck' for $125.00± when they get them back in stock. Here's my question. Is there any possible way to adapt the 'X-Carve's version' of this 'positioning puck' to your Shapeoko CNC? That asked, I have no idea as to what type of adaptation would be necessary to accomplish this 'potential' suggestion. .
Well Done, I use the similar technique to make a huge plaque for a good friend. I was not sure how you keep the paint from penetrating the wood and having to sand like crazy. Well Done.
Enjoyed your video. I'm looking into buying my own router for personal use, but I need a way to make a couple bucks with it just to offset the cost of the software. Making signs seems like a good place to start. Thanks. I like that you provided a little more thought even in the beginning than other videos I've watched that are essentially "watch my machine make ....".
HI, I just found you on youtube. I also have a Shapeoko XXl. You asked about the stuttering when jogging that seems to be the norm mine does it also. Do you have the new CM program that allows you to change you the speed on the fly. Also would you mind sharing your Speeds and feeds on the 3 bits you used. Great video
Bought my Shapeoko XL over a year ago and have yet to cut anything on it. Just too much other pressing stuff to do. But I finally cleared the debris off it, and after watching this video, I think its time to cut something. Thanks for the nudge. great work!
you could have always measured the difference then re ran your other tool. would have taken longer, but would have been about the same time in cleanup. nice plaque though.
The sign looks great, nicely done. I have one question, where did you get the bear face from? I have a project where the bear face you displayed would be great. Thanks for any information you might be able to provide.
Thanks buddy. I'm just starting out doing stuff like this myself and it's really helpful to see how more experienced people do things (along with the little mistakes).
I put two coats of shellac then the vinyl paint mask then another coat of shellac in the V-carve cut then I use the spray paint. How do you remove your vinyl paint mask? I haven't found a fast way to remove it and normally with all the small part I have, it takes about 30+ minutes to do.
GeppettoCreations I use vinyl transfer tape before carving then a couple of coats of spray clear lacquer. That seals the edges of the transfer tape and seals the carved areas. Once painted remove the transfer tape and there should be no sanding required. I've been using this in my sign business for 15 years and it works great!
@@dennisjeske3629 I believe he is referring to a masking tape used specifically for paint stenciling. I use Oramask now with a vinyl Cutter and have heard of folks using it for CNC as well.
You asked why the axis movement stop some times? You probably use step/direction cnc control. No steps means no movement. If your steps come directly from program such as Mach3 oppose to that from trajectory generator, than your computer running pulse generation (Mach3) is interrupted doing something else (house keeping) for to long or is to slow. All later Windows (i think up from XP) are multitasking machines with NOT realtime OS. Use trajectory generator or Linux, there is special version with RT capability. Getting faster computer may help or not, depending what you have installed. Plain fresh Windows (best not vista, 7, 8, 8.1 or 10) new driver and CNC and nothing else. Construction etc. you do on other computer.
For engravings that you're filling in, have you tried masking off the area prior to making the cut? Using a laser at least, this was the easiest way I found to accomplish the same
Dang, don’t see my comment.... Nice job, for one. It’s your work, charge whatever you want, two. I personally would have to charge ~$65, but loss leaders are a part of capitalism! About the beat...I’m concerned about infringements - I’m NOT an artist - I tweak photos or drawings heavily. I know you have to change an invention by only 10% to call it your own- a friend had one stolen after he tried to get a patent. So how do we deal with this? I always give credit, if I can find the original artist,; but usually I try to use a pic or drawing from a “free” site.
Don’t know when this was originated.... No way I could do that sign for $30! (More like min $65.) But he can charge whatever he wants. I am curious about the bear design because I don’t want to get into infringement problems, myself. I know that as far as copyrights go, all you have to do is change the design by 10%. A friend had an invention stolen from the patent office - 10%- questionable, but... Anyone have any info on this- how to use pics from the internet (because I’m not an artist) without “stealing” anything? Nice job, sir.
In the past I have used bottom left corner homing . After I switched to center homing this improved my setup time and design process a tonne. I switch every now and then between work piece homing methods but mostly center homing now. Touchplates are a must for any sort of reproducible Z accuracy too. Just out of interest what do you do for dust collection?
I agree with using a center homing method. This means your design will always be centered even if your board dimensions are not exact. I always use this method unless having to pass a large piece through the machine.
Here's the problem I have with using the center. It may not apply to all jobs, or all people, but knowing the kind of projects I do I know it applies to me a lot. If you use the center, and have to do several tool changes what happens when you don't have a center all the sudden to use because it has been machined out? You won't be able to at least without a stiff touch plate be able to get a good Z zero. If you know your project won't affect the center it won't be a problem, also the other issue I have with it is you have to find the center of each project meaning a little more work, and drawing lines on each project. Myself personally find it easier just to use a corner. Any corner will do.
@@stufftokeepyouentertained2168 use an edge finder to set your G54 origin to the bottom left corner. Write that location down and use it for all tools. That is, if you can manually input your home locations for each tool. This way, you're setting the origin based on spindle location and not that actual tool, so variations in diameters are immaterial.
Could you not do the entire project with, say for example, a 90 degree v-bit? I am extremely new to this so forgive me for my ignorance! Also, how do you break the project up in phases to be able to actually change the bits? I am using an X-Carve and it's included software, Easel, and I don't know where to begin to break the project up in stages. Thanks for any and all help!
For a touch off block check out MSC for a digital height touch block in the milling section . It is approx. 2" tall that you set on your work piece and touch off your tool in z. They are all metal and some have a digital led scale battery operated. Also you could change your process by sanding your board first, coat with 2 coats of shellac, let each coat dry sand, then cover your sign with adhesive backed clear shelf paper, cut the sign, paint then peal off the paper. Walla finished sign!!!
Re: stuttering during movement; I wouldn't call it normal, unless it's a new product designed by an inexperienced engineer, but I've had this problem myself when *I* was inexperienced in programming microcontrollers. It's caused by the processor being distracted for more than a few thousandths of a second at a time when it should be paying attention to the rhythmic stepping of the stepper motors. This happens when something interrupts it in mid-step because the programmer forgot or didn't know to shut off timer interrupts, allowing only important interrupts like end-of-travel limit switches. Sorry I'm 3 years late, I just came across this. :-)
That pause doesn't look random to me. It pauses about every 3 seconds both in the x and y. My guess is a specific distance each time. I have the cheapest CNC machine and new to this type of device. My cnc routers controller jogs a specific distance set as 0.01/0.1/1/5 and 10. I haven't set up the homing yet. I think this pause is built into it by design. I don't think the computer has anything to do with the pause but it is from the controller.
I'm curious if there is a reason why you don't do a clear coat BEFORE you start? At least whenever you do color fill projects. I ask, because the only bare grain, after the milling op, would be where the CNC cut material.
I've only just discovered this video... The jog function moves x number of stops based on configs. The fast jog seems like it stutters because it executed the command of x steps then waits for its next command. If you look at the gcode export of the jog command, you'll see it send "move (x steps) in (direction) at (speed)". There may be extra code that'll increase the wait time, but you can send direct code for each of your anchor locations if you take the time to grid them.
I found that when working with oak you should spray the the surface with a light coar of water. When dry ( just a few minutes ) then do your sanding. Now you will find the surface of the oak to be very rough. This process is called grain raising. Now you can sand it smooth again. You on,y have to do this once Later, when you start painting, the surface should stay smooth, thus eliminating a lot of sanding when you apply your finish. If you don’t do this and you apply a finish (especially if it is water based) your surface will be very rough even if you had sanded it smooth prior to applying the finish. Also, water is cheap.
You made a statement that you were going to put a finish on it with lacquer. Was that the Velspar Project Perfect Top Coat? If it was a lacquer finish, what was the base for the spray paint you used to keep the lacquer from raising the colored paint? Also nice job.
Great video.... On the nurse hall step. How do you set you first using the 1/4 bit then go back in with the 1/16 bit? Im new to the cnc game... Just trying to learn the inns and outs... Thanks
It's a couple of years late, but the stopping when jogging is normal when using the mouse on the axis, it's the program taking a second to recognize additional clicks/ movements
6 років тому+1
well i must say i watch some videos but iv watched a few of yours now and learn a bit that idea masking of to make things look different colors i would never have thought of that
The stuttering: Your machine is commanded by strings of movement commands, sent to the machine in series. You might jog your machine 10cm at a time, which is actually sending an accelerate->full speed->decelerate command each click, so you get accel->speed->decel->accel->speed->decel->accel->speed->decel, if you clicked it three times.
What are the chances I could purchase the Bear from you? We just bought a house and the street name is Bear Paw. I thought it would be nice to have a house number along with your Bear And maybe a bear paw. Thanks I enjoy your video
Thank you very much. I've heard of Bit Map Tracing so that helps me a lot. I googled BMT and there's enough there to bring me up to speed. Thanks agsin Great video. Jim
i have a question with this kind of cnc woodwork, ever consider utilizing liquid acrylic in conjunction to what your doing? Here is an example what i mean, you cut out letters, make them hello on the sign,, instead creating a positive cut, make a negative cut. Once done will crevis with epoxy. let dry, drill 5 tiny 5mm holes in back of each letter, add a 5$ led strip to back, the words hello would pop, and it would be cheap.. I mean you could do open sign, Come in, that sort of thing very cheap. Just an idea.
Would you find masking and painting a little easier if you pre-masked the blank and routed through it, peeling the mask after the color application? We use a mask with an adhesive that resists paint crawling under it.
This technique works even better if you make a coat of clear paint first, maybe even two, before the color spray. This prevents the color from seeping into the wood.
Maybe the stutter is within the x y of the controller. Should have a ramp to set acceleration,if too steep it overreacts to overspeed and has to overcompensate. Very apparent at higher accelerations. Of course at lower proscess speeds and loading influence the trouble is minimal to non existent.
Just FYI. I deleted a comment from someone that "Asked" or should I say accused me of stealing a copy written image on this video. I should have left the comment there and responded directly, but I can't stand those kind of people. First of all I own the license to the bear image in the video. I have extended licensing rights to it. Secondly what kind of asshole responds to a video like this with an accusation that I am stealing shit. If you are that worried about it as a concerned citizen send a private message and ask. To the person who commented thanks for the lecture, but no thanks I'm a big boy I know how to conduct my business.
how much did the bear cost? where to buy it?
Came to the comments expecting to see something like this.
@@hyperhektor7733 I payed $89 for the full rights to it.
@@stufftokeepyouentertained2168 really? then wow
@@hyperhektor7733 you have to look at it from my standpoint. I made about $300 making several plaques for teachers. I also made over $1000 on this video. It was worth the investment.
I just came across your channel upon looking up Shapeoko. I have to say I think it was a great video. No fluff, the right info and details along with some great pointers. Liked and subscribed. Thanks for sharing.
Nice sign. I found that the process that works the best for me on a colored v-carve is to plane the board to thickness first - primarily to pre-set the planer thickness for later. Carve the project, but set the Z-zero height to be ~30 thousandths below the surface of the wood. Paint, then plane again with the plane thickness lowered 1/32" (the 30 thousandths you went below the wood surface) instead of sanding off the paint. Seems to do a great job at eliminating the pores of the wood having hints of paint left in it, and no more sanding disks bogged down with paint.
That's a great idea to plane off the paint... I like it. I'm just curious if the paint would dull the high speed steel knives in the planer. I don't yet have a helical head with carbide inserts.
@@ronmisiura9169 I haven't noticed any additional wear, but I've only done this a couple dozen times. My planer uses the traditional HSS blades too, looking forward to a helical upgrade someday.
Excellent. Very inspiring and useful for me as newbie in woodCNC (4030 router) Kind regards Marek Poland EU.
Nice done! The Bear really came out great!👍👍👍
Very nice work. I use shellac for my first sealer coat. I made my own touch plate for a piece of aluminum. With that you can do a point cloud and some auto height correction to make all the lines perfect.
$30 for a sign for a friend is fine. But by the time you figure in design time, routing time, finishing, electricity, replacing worn out bits, paint, sandpaper, and clear coat, doubling the price would still be on the low side. (In fact my pricing guide for a sign that size in the grid for lowest overhead, aka home business, shows a price of $62.44. Most dedicated sign shops would sell that for $75 to $100) Even if it's a hobby business, you don't have to undercut the pros by a ton of money. If you are way too cheap, you'll get so busy you'll start to hate doing the projects. If you are pricing right you'll make decent money and not burn yourself out. Too many people underestimate what people will pay for the kind of stuff made on a CNC. After all, they're coming to you because they can't do it themselves. Actually you should put at least 5 to 10 % of every job's profit away. Someday that machine is going to wear out and need replacing. All the jobs that wore out your machine should be paying for the new one.
@NW3D You don't get the point. When enough people cheapen a product by not knowing how to charge, the whole industry suffers. In the sign industry, sign shops are getting about the same amount of money to letter up 2 doors on a truck as sign painters received in the 1950's, about $150 which would be equal to over $1500 in today's money. Technology made it possible for anyone to buy a machine and a computer and become a sign maker. These new sign "artists" had no idea about proper design layout and no knowledge of how to price. Cutting prices to get work is all they knew about marketing. BTW, the steppers on my router are $200 a piece and my spindle was $5000. The stepper you quoted is for toy cnc's.
Exactly, over saturation of the market along with undercut pricing leads to everyone suffering. I'm a cabinet maker and have to compete against handyman with a portable tablesaw from home cheapo and face nailed face frames. Luckily I have great clients who appreciate craftsmanship.
Is someone with a "toy" CNC really cutting into your market share that much? Yes, the market is a crap shoot now, but things should balance out in time. Low cost "toy" machines are widely available and cheap. These people will realize that they can't make a living for the prices they are charging, get bored and move on, or up the ante. People who want quality will buy quality, and people who are cheap will go to the "toy" machine operators.
You professionals have three choices. Ride it out, adapt, or go out of business. It is the unfortunate reality of the free market. The question is, do you add value? What do you do that sets you apart from the "toy" CNC operators?
Other than the fact that you hate that you paid the price of a car for your machines. Basically, it comes down to quality and experience. If you can't beat out an amateur, then what are you doing? Find a part of the market that will value you. Or buy a bunch of "toy" machines that you can use for your cheap customers, and use your expensive machine for the customers that care about quality. Create cool things that the "toy" operators can't.
@@namehere5675 I'm sorry that you don't get it.
That's like telling an artist to give up, your work can be mass produced for pennies. Be kind to the artist. Programming skills are still where it has always been. In demand. Design skills will always make to a great living-till some one copies your stuff and signs your name.
The best way to make lots of new friends is still to have a trailer. And a close second is to have a welder ... but there is a good argument for a CNC router being right up there too.
This was very kind of you to share so much of the process that you followed to create this piece. If you only priced this at $30 your customer got a real good price!
A couple things you can do to speed up setups is screw down a straight edge in X & Y to bump parts. My corner location is Origin 1 and then origins 2 thru 4 every inch in X. I cut a line every inch in the straight edge to show the origin locations so now, depending on the size of work and where the hold down t tracks are I just locate the part on the table and pick my origin in the control I want to move to. I use a cheat stick that is cut in a U shape to bump the parts consistently. I rarely set X & Y because they are already defined. I program everything from the bottom left corner for repeatability. If I need to add a feature or re run something my parts go right back where they were originally.
Wish I had the space and money for this CNC stuff. Would be fun. One trick I heard about for setting the z axis is to get the spindle close to the piece, then loosen the bit so it touches, then tighten the collet.
This is really helpful. I am now considering buying a Shapeoko.
Caught me by surprise with the hip music lol - Good video, thank you
I have watched 10 of your videos so far and subscribed. I admire your transparency. I appreciate your format, the fact that you go from idea to completion through all steps of a project. Please continue with your style.
Great sign. This is my first time watching your channel. Will watch more soon. Thanks for sharing.
I loved the video. I must apologize for all the trolls that have high jacked the comments. I get it -- its a video on how to create a sign, not a video on how to price your work. Please don't let the trolls discourage you from creating videos like this.
Lots of great ideas and good info. Well done!
This is more or less how I used to do this. Now I sand the wood with 220 grit, then put shelf paper on it and then do my v-carving. Note: DO THE V-CARVING FIRST! Do the flat area clearance next. If you do the flat area clearance first, it'll rip up your shelf paper. The V-bit will cut cleanly, leaving the v-carve exposed and the top surface covered. I usually remove the shelf paper from the wood to be cleared by the flat area bit after the v-carve (doesn't help any and the clearance bit will just chew it up anyway). Remove from machine, paint, then remove the shelf paper. It's not perfect, but at least 80% of the time, there's no sanding involved afterward, saving a ton of time.
I understand the convenience of running over to a Big Box Store to grab onsie-twosie pieces of wood. However, if you are in the business of using wood for quality projects; your local lumberyard, saw-mill, or forest are a much better option. Great Video, and Thanks for the Upload!
And a lot more work. Properly dried wood is key, and that takes weeks at minimum for raw wood.
Nice job, thanks for showing how your process looks like.
Thank you, I like this idea and am looking into getting a CNC to do this, I think it would be a good hobby / pocket change kind of a deal. It would be fun to go to flee markets on weekends and cut some signs or anything, meet new people and just have a nice day and if you make a buck or two thats a plus. thanks again, I like that the machine can be doing something while I can BS with people or be doing other things.. I still have the templates when we did this stuff with a router ( Not the computer type) Thanks again
@stufftokeepyouentertained I realize this is an old thread, and I just found your channel. I have 0 CNC experience, but a fair amount with robotics. I assume the stutter you see is from some sort of step count in the g-code. It seems more like it moves (for example) a 100 counts, minor pause, then another 100 counts. That is pure speculation though on my part. Hopefully you eventually found out the real answer to this!
Thanks for your channel, your helping this newbie out with all of my questions.
13:22 "nurse symbol" It's called Caduceus and it's not only the symbol of nurses, but the symbol of medicine as a whole. Great work. I'm sure the school nurse will be very proud to display this plaque in the aid station.
The Staff Of Hermes
If you do not have a touch plate just build yourself a bit holder that will set it self against the collect the same everytime. Then set the bit in the holder. Insert the bit into the collect until your mini "jig" contacts the collet or whatever you can get it to repeat to every time and the bits will all be the same distance from the collet.
Sometimes you gotta use your head for more than a hat-rack.
SUGGESTION: There are cnc videos that show how to do wood inlays for your bear and medical symbol. The plaque will hold up better over time. Seeing what you made in your garage gives me great hope for success. Thanks.
Your lines our not as deep at the top because your table surface in uneven - need to resurface. Also, try using Oramask 813 paint mask - it'll save you a ton of elbow grease. Lastly, coat both sides with equal number of clear coats to prevent warping. Thanks for sharing
Thank you for showing even the parts that went wrong, that's how we learn. Great video.
Agree, great video! I also enjoyed seeing the good and bad!
People are talking about using a vinyl mask and I think it depends on the design and the thickness of the paint. For complex designs and thin paint, I think sanding is easier than vinyl.
That came out awesome.
Never comment on videos but I am ordering my Shapepoko after a year of saving and wanted to thank you for your amazing videos.
Thank you for the tips, sir.
If you don't want to use a touch plate, use a 1-2-3 block. You'll have to subtract whatever the dimension is, but it sets a constant reference from whatever face you;re touching your tools off from and makes sure you have the distances exactly right.
Nice job. I aprecite a lot.
Thanks for sharing your process really good video!
Thanks for watching...
well done . first class job
Very interesting. A couple of questions if you don’t mind
Why don’t/wouldn’t you lacquer the whole surface before any engraving? Doesn’t the lacquer interfere with where you do want the paint to stay?
If you wanted “Nurse Hall” to be painted (say white), could/would you paint that area before engraving - with the engraving just leaving the words in white?
The Stutter has to do with the pulses going to the motors. If the resolution iv high, say 16 miny steps per step, the computer sends a very high pulse rate in high speeds. The motors at that frequency rate enter a resonance mode and do the things you were pointing..............If you carve at that speed you will notice that steps are being lost. try to 1 lower the resolution or slow down the max speed a bit.
That studdering while jogging is normal. When you hold down the key, you are not sending a single "go" command, but filling the buffer with continual presses. After the first press there is a delay, and grbl runs deceleration instead of a junction to another move. Hey, its grbl, its amazing it works to begin with, but its a piss poor motion system.
Nice project! Will you mind sharing the part number for the 1/16 bit you used here?
the bear is well done, nice nice
I can't tell you how many time I have forgotten to zero my Z after a bit change. Loved the video and really loved the music, I'm a die hard blues fan. "Bonamassa Rules" LOL
Could you router threw masking tape or Frisket film so that once the routing is done you just paint as you did but then pull the tape or film off and you wouldn't have to sand as much? You could even do colored epoxy in the grooves which you could sand and clear coat to give a cool depth effect.
That is a very nice sign really like the different elevations very well done . I am trying to buy my first cnc . I have been trying to learn how carbide create works. I can't figure out why when i do a pocket everything gets routed out. I can engraved inside the pocket but I can't do raise letters like your design. Are you showing by any chance how you did it
the studdering is NOT normal. have you upgraded to grbl 1.1f and carbide motion 4?
I don't know how I didn't see this comment until now, but yes I have upgraded, and it still happens. It doesn't seem to effect anything. I have had several other people say theirs does the same thing, so I stopped worrying about it.
Really nice work. I like the sealer step. That made all the difference. It stabilized the work surface. I like the "now I hope this will all come off" talking about the paint on the sanding step. That's how it feels doesn't it? If you had some cracks that had paint in them where you did not want it, you could come back with a dark paint over that, and sand again.
Nice work... touch plates are really easy to make if you haven’t already got one.
No I don't have one yet. I am either going to make one or buy one as soon as I get done making the enclosure I'm working on right now.
Beatiful.
what I do to level my bit to the blank is move it down with baby steps as deep as I can and then slacken the bit off so it drops to the surface
Super nice video ! What would be your first and second make .. awesome work keep posting !
A wasteboard, and a set of hold downs. Thanks.
I came to the comments section just for this and am baffled, why this hasn‘t made it the top. Thank you very much for answering this question and the video in general!
So you did all this with the carbide sw? You don't have to have one program for design and another to generate the G-Code? the makerspace at my company has one of these and I'm excited to try it! Turns out lots of people use lots of software it sounds like
With the Shapeoko can you cut bigger pieces than your work area by cutting one portion, moving it through the machine, and cutting the other portion?
Nice video, and shows nicely how you go through a project from start to finish. Well done!
Subbed! Great video! Do you know if you can change bits like that on the x carve?
Yes you can.
Just came upon your channel. I am about to purchase a shapeoko xxl and your videos are among the best I've watched.. I am now a new subscriber. Thanks
always keep your sander flat bro!! especially when you are offering advice. Nice idea with the paint though i will have to try tht
Great job on both your project and your honesty.. Your video style is true and real and as newbie to cnc it's appreciated. 2 comments.. 1. I use a dremel with fine tools for the detail clean up (mini sanders and deburring tips). That might help you. And 2. Charge more for your projects. Its a craft and that takes valuable time away from your family and there are expenses that you'll need to recoup. You are an expert in your field regardless of how comfortable you feel with your progress. Keep the videos coming and thank you for doing it. Great job!
One suggestion & One question. Have you ever considered using a 'square-cornered boarder' on a sign like this? It seems it would give the sign a more 'finished' look. (Just an opinion.) You mention you plan on purchasing 'Shapeoko's bit positioning Puck' for $125.00± when they get them back in stock. Here's my question. Is there any possible way to adapt the 'X-Carve's version' of this 'positioning puck' to your Shapeoko CNC? That asked, I have no idea as to what type of adaptation would be necessary to accomplish this 'potential' suggestion.
.
Well Done, I use the similar technique to make a huge plaque for a good friend. I was not sure how you keep the paint from penetrating the wood and having to sand like crazy. Well Done.
Enjoyed your video. I'm looking into buying my own router for personal use, but I need a way to make a couple bucks with it just to offset the cost of the software. Making signs seems like a good place to start. Thanks. I like that you provided a little more thought even in the beginning than other videos I've watched that are essentially "watch my machine make ....".
HI, I just found you on youtube. I also have a Shapeoko XXl. You asked about the stuttering when jogging that seems to be the norm mine does it also. Do you have the new CM program that allows you to change you the speed on the fly. Also would you mind sharing your Speeds and feeds on the 3 bits you used. Great video
Bought my Shapeoko XL over a year ago and have yet to cut anything on it. Just too much other pressing stuff to do. But I finally cleared the debris off it, and after watching this video, I think its time to cut something. Thanks for the nudge. great work!
Thanks for sharing, good job!
Can u do pistol wood grips by this cnc? thank you
Do you have a file for the organizer in the drawer? My daughter has a Shapeoko and has a tiem keeping up with bits and different items. Thanks.
Where can I buy such cool bear art stuff?
you could have always measured the difference then re ran your other tool. would have taken longer, but would have been about the same time in cleanup. nice plaque though.
The sign looks great, nicely done. I have one question, where did you get the bear face from? I have a project where the bear face you displayed would be great. Thanks for any information you might be able to provide.
I bought it from a stock photo company.
Thanks buddy. I'm just starting out doing stuff like this myself and it's really helpful to see how more experienced people do things (along with the little mistakes).
You might want to try a vinyl paint mask on the wood and route through it. I use it and hardly ever need to sand off any paint. But very nice sign !!
I put two coats of shellac then the vinyl paint mask then another coat of shellac in the V-carve cut then I use the spray paint. How do you remove your vinyl paint mask? I haven't found a fast way to remove it and normally with all the small part I have, it takes about 30+ minutes to do.
I simply grab the edge with my fingernail & pull it off all in one piece. Maybe you vinyl is too sticky. I also use spray poly not shellac
GeppettoCreations I use vinyl transfer tape before carving then a couple of coats of spray clear lacquer. That seals the edges of the transfer tape and seals the carved areas. Once painted remove the transfer tape and there should be no sanding required. I've been using this in my sign business for 15 years and it works great!
The routing doesn't melt the vinyl?
@@dennisjeske3629 I believe he is referring to a masking tape used specifically for paint stenciling. I use Oramask now with a vinyl Cutter and have heard of folks using it for CNC as well.
great job, I think it could look great with a colored acrylic fill too.
You asked why the axis movement stop some times? You probably use step/direction cnc control. No steps means no movement. If your steps come directly from
program such as Mach3 oppose to that from trajectory generator, than your computer running pulse generation (Mach3) is interrupted doing something else (house keeping) for to long or is to slow.
All later Windows (i think up from XP) are multitasking machines with NOT realtime OS. Use trajectory generator or Linux, there is special version with RT capability.
Getting faster computer may help or not, depending what you have installed. Plain fresh Windows (best not vista, 7, 8, 8.1 or 10) new driver and CNC and nothing else.
Construction etc. you do on other computer.
I’m no expert by any means but the stutter could be stepper driver overheating?
For engravings that you're filling in, have you tried masking off the area prior to making the cut? Using a laser at least, this was the easiest way I found to accomplish the same
How many can it do in 1 hour, if it's not just a hobby machine?
Dang, don’t see my comment....
Nice job, for one. It’s your work, charge whatever you want, two.
I personally would have to charge ~$65, but loss leaders are a part of capitalism!
About the beat...I’m concerned about infringements - I’m NOT an artist - I tweak photos or drawings heavily. I know you have to change an invention by only 10% to call it your own- a friend had one stolen after he tried to get a patent. So how do we deal with this? I always give credit, if I can find the original artist,; but usually I try to use a pic or drawing from a “free” site.
Don’t know when this was originated.... No way I could do that sign for $30! (More like min $65.) But he can charge whatever he wants. I am curious about the bear design because I don’t want to get into infringement problems, myself. I know that as far as copyrights go, all you have to do is change the design by 10%. A friend had an invention stolen from the patent office - 10%- questionable, but... Anyone have any info on this- how to use pics from the internet (because I’m not an artist) without “stealing” anything? Nice job, sir.
I love the video but I can't believe you didn't round the edges or do something with the edges
In the past I have used bottom left corner homing . After I switched to center homing this improved my setup time and design process a tonne. I switch every now and then between work piece homing methods but mostly center homing now. Touchplates are a must for any sort of reproducible Z accuracy too.
Just out of interest what do you do for dust collection?
Mungbean at the time of this video nothing. I have a suck it dust boot on order to use now that I have an enclosure.
I agree with using a center homing method. This means your design will always be centered even if your board dimensions are not exact. I always use this method unless having to pass a large piece through the machine.
Here's the problem I have with using the center. It may not apply to all jobs, or all people, but knowing the kind of projects I do I know it applies to me a lot. If you use the center, and have to do several tool changes what happens when you don't have a center all the sudden to use because it has been machined out? You won't be able to at least without a stiff touch plate be able to get a good Z zero. If you know your project won't affect the center it won't be a problem, also the other issue I have with it is you have to find the center of each project meaning a little more work, and drawing lines on each project. Myself personally find it easier just to use a corner. Any corner will do.
@@stufftokeepyouentertained2168 use an edge finder to set your G54 origin to the bottom left corner. Write that location down and use it for all tools. That is, if you can manually input your home locations for each tool. This way, you're setting the origin based on spindle location and not that actual tool, so variations in diameters are immaterial.
Neat idea to stop paint bleading in to wood use laquer, simple when you know how thanks
Could you not do the entire project with, say for example, a 90 degree v-bit? I am extremely new to this so forgive me for my ignorance! Also, how do you break the project up in phases to be able to actually change the bits? I am using an X-Carve and it's included software, Easel, and I don't know where to begin to break the project up in stages. Thanks for any and all help!
For a touch off block check out MSC for a digital height touch block in the milling section . It is approx. 2" tall that you set on your work piece and touch off your tool in z. They are all metal and some have a digital led scale battery operated. Also you could change your process by sanding your board first, coat with 2 coats of shellac, let each coat dry sand, then cover your sign with adhesive backed clear shelf paper, cut the sign, paint then peal off the paper. Walla finished sign!!!
Re: stuttering during movement; I wouldn't call it normal, unless it's a new product designed by an inexperienced engineer, but I've had this problem myself when *I* was inexperienced in programming microcontrollers. It's caused by the processor being distracted for more than a few thousandths of a second at a time when it should be paying attention to the rhythmic stepping of the stepper motors. This happens when something interrupts it in mid-step because the programmer forgot or didn't know to shut off timer interrupts, allowing only important interrupts like end-of-travel limit switches. Sorry I'm 3 years late, I just came across this. :-)
That pause doesn't look random to me. It pauses about every 3 seconds both in the x and y. My guess is a specific distance each time. I have the cheapest CNC machine and new to this type of device. My cnc routers controller jogs a specific distance set as 0.01/0.1/1/5 and 10. I haven't set up the homing yet. I think this pause is built into it by design. I don't think the computer has anything to do with the pause but it is from the controller.
I'm curious if there is a reason why you don't do a clear coat BEFORE you start? At least whenever you do color fill projects. I ask, because the only bare grain, after the milling op, would be where the CNC cut material.
I've only just discovered this video... The jog function moves x number of stops based on configs. The fast jog seems like it stutters because it executed the command of x steps then waits for its next command. If you look at the gcode export of the jog command, you'll see it send "move (x steps) in (direction) at (speed)". There may be extra code that'll increase the wait time, but you can send direct code for each of your anchor locations if you take the time to grid them.
I found that when working with oak you should spray the the surface with a light coar of water. When dry ( just a few minutes ) then do your sanding. Now you will find the surface of the oak to be very rough. This process is called grain raising. Now you can sand it smooth again. You on,y have to do this once Later, when you start painting, the surface should stay smooth, thus eliminating a lot of sanding when you apply your finish. If you don’t do this and you apply a finish (especially if it is water based) your surface will be very rough even if you had sanded it smooth prior to applying the finish. Also, water is cheap.
Can you please tell me what collets you are using? BTW. Great Content!!
You made a statement that you were going to put a finish on it with lacquer. Was that the Velspar Project Perfect Top Coat? If it was a lacquer finish, what was the base for the spray paint you used to keep the lacquer from raising the colored paint? Also nice job.
Great video.... On the nurse hall step. How do you set you first using the 1/4 bit then go back in with the 1/16 bit? Im new to the cnc game... Just trying to learn the inns and outs... Thanks
It's a couple of years late, but the stopping when jogging is normal when using the mouse on the axis, it's the program taking a second to recognize additional clicks/ movements
well i must say i watch some videos but iv watched a few of yours now and learn a bit that idea masking of to make things look different colors i would never have thought of that
This is one of the better cnc woodworking videos I have seen. Thanks for taking the time to go through the setup. You've earned another subscriber.
The stuttering: Your machine is commanded by strings of movement commands, sent to the machine in series. You might jog your machine 10cm at a time, which is actually sending an accelerate->full speed->decelerate command each click, so you get accel->speed->decel->accel->speed->decel->accel->speed->decel, if you clicked it three times.
What are the chances I could purchase the Bear from you? We just bought a house and the street name is Bear Paw. I thought it would be nice to have a house number along with your Bear And maybe a bear paw. Thanks I enjoy your video
Thank you very much. I've heard of Bit Map Tracing so that helps me a lot. I googled BMT and there's enough there to bring me up to speed. Thanks agsin Great video. Jim
i have a question with this kind of cnc woodwork, ever consider utilizing liquid acrylic in conjunction to what your doing? Here is an example what i mean, you cut out letters, make them hello on the sign,, instead creating a positive cut, make a negative cut. Once done will crevis with epoxy. let dry, drill 5 tiny 5mm holes in back of each letter, add a 5$ led strip to back, the words hello would pop, and it would be cheap.. I mean you could do open sign, Come in, that sort of thing very cheap. Just an idea.
Clear coat the board before you cut. Saves a ton of time.
Would you find masking and painting a little easier if you pre-masked the blank and routed through it, peeling the mask after the color application? We use a mask with an adhesive that resists paint crawling under it.
This technique works even better if you make a coat of clear paint first, maybe even two, before the color spray. This prevents the color from seeping into the wood.
Maybe the stutter is within the x y of the controller. Should have a ramp to set acceleration,if too steep it overreacts to overspeed and has to overcompensate. Very apparent at higher accelerations. Of course at lower proscess speeds and loading influence the trouble is minimal to non existent.