Wish I had seen a video like this 12 years ago. I started developing old exposed film and struggled with my film always coming out back with no images (so I thought). After throwing away many rolls of 8mm film, I noted what looked like an image in between black mud. I wondered if that stuff would wash off so I held the film under running water in my bathroom sink and rubbed the film with my fingers. I discovered the entire film had images! I had never heard of remjet at the time and never saw any video on it. I was both thrilled and ticked off for all the film I threw away. Great video, thanks
Great video Hashem. I also c41 process Vision 3 film - I prefer the look to ECN2 developed stock. I was going to use baking soda to remove the remjet but picked up a packet of Melbourne Film Supply remjet remover when i purchased a Cinestill 2 bath simplified c41 powder kit from them. Added cost was only $10 bucks for a packet of 2 and I have found each packet lasts one set of c41 chems. so $5 over 18ish rolls. That stuff is quite quick, works at 27 deg C and is a 10sec agitation and then 4 or 5 rinses in dev temp water. That's just what i use and no one way is necessarily better than another as you say. Whatever people use is cool as long as you find it the best fit for you. Needless to say people shouldn't be scared of remjet. It's very easy to remove.
Digging up some old stuff here haha. Got my hands on .. shit, probably, 3000ft of 50D/250D/500T short ends locally. Will be using this technique. Thanks from across the ditch!
wow! thanks for the video. I am going to develop my color films myself soon this year and I really wanna try cine film as well! thanks for the video again!
Baking soda is fine. I don't understand the obsession some people have with making the cost saving measures not even worth it by buying unnecessary shit. Like stop baths and wetting agents. I just use cheap white vinegar and distilled water and it works perfect.
Is there a safe way to remove the remjet layer before shooting, reroll the film and then shoot it as if you were making your own homemade Cinestill stock? I just saw your bulk loading video and thought it would be interesting if that kind of process would be possible at home?
I reckon so, but the problem is you'd have to make sure that ALL of the remjet was off, otherwise if any is left then you'd ruin the C41 chems. You'd also have to do it alll in the dark, including scrubbing, drying, and loading. Loading is ok but you'd need to be pretty damn good to do the whole process in the dark.
@@jamesharber6086 can you look at undeveloped film in the dark with night-vision goggles? Assuming you can make it light tight around your eyes. Essentially, will IR light effect the film at all?
I’m really not sure why one would want to do it before shooting, when doing it after is incredibly simple. Doing it before shooting is a bit of a hassle.
@@willworkfor_film That depends on the film and its sensitivity. I have found Kodak Gold to not be IR sensitive in tests with IR lights, but I haven’t had the chance to deal with undeveloped film under NODs yet
@@conorw999 yeah I was just wondering cause then you could develop film in the dark without being mostly blind. But you'd also have to make sure the eye holes are light tight.
Thanks for this video! I’ve seen other remjet removal videos where they use washing soda instead of baking soda. Probably very similar substances as long as it makes the water alkaline. One question: would the remjet removal work after development is done, rather than at the start of the process as you show? Just wondering. Thanks! Cheers from USA.
Yeah if you can find washing soda just as easily, that is a bit more alkaline so would be slightly better! I have heard that removing it after can work fine, but have never tried it myself.
Wonderfully helpful video!🙏🏼My question is: after removal of the majority of the remjet during pre-rinse, is there a risk that any of the residual remjet would ruin your c41n chems during development?
I've never experienced this! I think small residual amounts don't cause much harm since it's just carbon. If you're worried, you can run it through a coffee filter paper. I tried this, but it didn't really seem to remove any sediment or change performance for subsequent use compared to not filtering it. I'm not 100% confident on these opinions though, so it would be good to ask a few people including lab operators if possible.
Tons of questions, but the most important right now is *_won't the remjet foul myC41 developer?_* The other is the possibility of scratching the emulsion. However, the ECN-2 film prices are attractive so I think I'll have to try them.
Awesome video! When developing in C41 chemicals what temperature do you keep the developer at? I am going to switch from using ECN2 chemicals which need the developer at 41 Degrees C and was wondering if you still use the C41 temperature of 38 Degrees C? Also, an additional method I use to remove any residual remjet before the stabiliser, (instead of the rinse under the tap at the end) is to hang the film up wet and use a wet sponge to run down the the film’s remjet side (rinsing the sponge after every pass) and for the final few passes I use cotton pads and discard them once they are used. I’ve found this to be the quickest, cleanest and best way to avoid scratching the film.
Can you do this before you bulk load the film? i.e in a dark bag you remove the remjet on the 100ft or 400ft roll of film then once it's dry you can put it in the bulk loader
I would imagine it's possible, since that's what Cinestill does, but I'm guessing without specialized equipment, it would be difficult to the point of not being worth it.
Will this have the look and halations of Cinestill, or is that from shooting with the washed film first and not just from washing the rem-jet off in developing?
It won't have the halations of Cinestill! This is the case with any cinema film exposed with a remjet layer. I have another video comparing Cinestill vs the original 500T etc where you can see the difference.
I have looked at the video several times. It is as you indicate fairly straightforward. But I notice after the hand rinsing, you have put the film back on the reel and then tank for the stabilizer/photoflow step. I have never had much luck getting wet film back on plastic reels. Do you have some sort of technique for that? I could see metal reels (which I no longer have) but plastic?
It’s sodium sulfate, borax, and sodium hydroxide and it’s way better and cheaper to mix. Then sodium bicarbonate. Kodak pre-bath is the way to go definitely nothing can compare! Also no wiping necessary. It only takes 10 seconds and it comes off like magic. It might sound cheaper to buy baking soda and I guess it is at first, but the initial total cost comes out to be way cheaper to do it the Kodak formula! Plus, it’s reusable the pH level is around 9.8 to 9.9 with Kodak formula
any tips on getting remjet off the emulsion side of the film? After developing when trying the rinse off the remaining remjet I sometimes smear some on the emulsion side wondering if you had the same problem?
@@helloimnotwell Now I just remove it in running water one frame at a time with my fingers with some latex gloves while pulling the film out of the reel Key is to keep the roll inside the developing reel holder while doing this
@@pushingfilm I think I might need to try again and leave it a bit longer. I saw that someone also recommended using a mixture of fairy liquid in the final wash to get it all off by hand?
Thanks for the vid! Looking into developing my own kodak vision someday and this is really helpful. I noticed your copy stand in the background, may I ask what brand it is? (I believe you used tripod earlier)
Sometimes I do ( In which case I just do it slowly and carefully. It's annoying, but it works) and at other times I cant be bothered and just run the stabiliser over the film in the bucket and snake the film around 😅 Loading wet/swollen film onto reels can also result in the ball bearing stripping bits of the emulsion off from the edges/sprockets. So, I guess I that neither is a perfect solution for that part of the process!
Does that leftover remjet ruin chemicals? I bought a hand rolled vision 200t, remjet removed. Got it developed at my locals spot and some frames had little "watermarks" . I was wondering if that was leftover remjet and if i just contaminated my photolab's chemicals
It has never done so in my experience. Remaining remjet on the film doesn't show up as watermarks per say, but rather as hard spots of white that show in your scans (on negative film, since the remjet is black)
Whether it's better is down to preference (especially since much more difference can be made with scanning) but, ECN-2 developer will generally give a flatter/darker image.
if you guys are as cheap as i am, here's my solution: mixing the "remjet remover": 30g of baking soda/ 500mL tap water at any tempreture (as long as baking soda can desolve). solution will be clear before any use. removing remjet: 1. pour room tempreture remjet remover into the development tank, let it sit still for 2 minutes. 2. pour the remjet remover into a bottle to reuse, the solution will turn pink and get progressively more pink with each reuse, but almost no remjet will come out with it at this step. 3. pour room tempreture tap water into the development tank, shake aggressively for a few seconds, pour out. You should see the "black water" at this step. 4. Rinse again, the water should come out with a pink tint. rinse a few more times until the water become almost clear, and your film is ready for normal C41 process. Note: >this method will not remove 100% of the remjet. after the development you can scrub the film under runing water, gentally, with your finger to remove any remaining remjet. >you can almost reuse the remjet remover indefinitely >"room tempreture" is anywhere between 15-30 degrees celsius. >you can rinse with tap water at around 30 degrees celsius to get clear of the "pink water" faster, but it's not necessary and from my experience with hundreds of rolls, makes no noticable different.
Wait, so you remove the rem jet layer after exposing the film? Is the rem jet layer in the way of the development chemicals? I was under the impression that you’d remove the rem jet first, load the film canisters, expose the photos and then develop as normal.
Nope, Cinestill does that to be able to sell it ready to develop, but removing it prior to shooting is what causes halations and makes it more prone to static and other artifact. As long as it is removed prior to C41 development you're fine
That's right, as per the previous comment! In fact, you can even remove it all at the rinse stage after development and blix and it'll still work... but I prefer to do most of it beforehand.
Wish I had seen a video like this 12 years ago. I started developing old exposed film and struggled with my film always coming out back with no images (so I thought). After throwing away many rolls of 8mm film, I noted what looked like an image in between black mud. I wondered if that stuff would wash off so I held the film under running water in my bathroom sink and rubbed the film with my fingers. I discovered the entire film had images! I had never heard of remjet at the time and never saw any video on it. I was both thrilled and ticked off for all the film I threw away. Great video, thanks
Oh man, what a shame! Good that you eventually made the discovery though.
damn
Great video Hashem. I also c41 process Vision 3 film - I prefer the look to ECN2 developed stock. I was going to use baking soda to remove the remjet but picked up a packet of Melbourne Film Supply remjet remover when i purchased a Cinestill 2 bath simplified c41 powder kit from them. Added cost was only $10 bucks for a packet of 2 and I have found each packet lasts one set of c41 chems. so $5 over 18ish rolls. That stuff is quite quick, works at 27 deg C and is a 10sec agitation and then 4 or 5 rinses in dev temp water. That's just what i use and no one way is necessarily better than another as you say. Whatever people use is cool as long as you find it the best fit for you. Needless to say people shouldn't be scared of remjet. It's very easy to remove.
That's good! Yeah I might eventually try some of that stuff from MFS :-)
Thanks for this! I will seriously consider this for the near future.
Finally!!!!!! Great... you rocks
Simple and straightforward...thanks. I'm going to give your method a go. Joined.
Digging up some old stuff here haha. Got my hands on .. shit, probably, 3000ft of 50D/250D/500T short ends locally. Will be using this technique. Thanks from across the ditch!
Nice one! Glad this could be helpful
wow! thanks for the video. I am going to develop my color films myself soon this year and I really wanna try cine film as well! thanks for the video again!
No probs Ryan!
Amazingly helpful. So unless I’ve misunderstood, you’d do your shoot as normal, then remove the remjet? And not the other way around?
That's right!
Baking soda is fine. I don't understand the obsession some people have with making the cost saving measures not even worth it by buying unnecessary shit. Like stop baths and wetting agents. I just use cheap white vinegar and distilled water and it works perfect.
Is there a safe way to remove the remjet layer before shooting, reroll the film and then shoot it as if you were making your own homemade Cinestill stock? I just saw your bulk loading video and thought it would be interesting if that kind of process would be possible at home?
I reckon so, but the problem is you'd have to make sure that ALL of the remjet was off, otherwise if any is left then you'd ruin the C41 chems. You'd also have to do it alll in the dark, including scrubbing, drying, and loading. Loading is ok but you'd need to be pretty damn good to do the whole process in the dark.
@@jamesharber6086 can you look at undeveloped film in the dark with night-vision goggles? Assuming you can make it light tight around your eyes. Essentially, will IR light effect the film at all?
I’m really not sure why one would want to do it before shooting, when doing it after is incredibly simple. Doing it before shooting is a bit of a hassle.
@@willworkfor_film That depends on the film and its sensitivity. I have found Kodak Gold to not be IR sensitive in tests with IR lights, but I haven’t had the chance to deal with undeveloped film under NODs yet
@@conorw999 yeah I was just wondering cause then you could develop film in the dark without being mostly blind. But you'd also have to make sure the eye holes are light tight.
Thanks for this video! I’ve seen other remjet removal videos where they use washing soda instead of baking soda. Probably very similar substances as long as it makes the water alkaline. One question: would the remjet removal work after development is done, rather than at the start of the process as you show? Just wondering. Thanks! Cheers from USA.
Yeah if you can find washing soda just as easily, that is a bit more alkaline so would be slightly better! I have heard that removing it after can work fine, but have never tried it myself.
Thanks for this, worked like a dream!
Nice! Glad it worked for you
Wonderfully helpful video!🙏🏼My question is: after removal of the majority of the remjet during pre-rinse, is there a risk that any of the residual remjet would ruin your c41n chems during development?
I've never experienced this! I think small residual amounts don't cause much harm since it's just carbon. If you're worried, you can run it through a coffee filter paper. I tried this, but it didn't really seem to remove any sediment or change performance for subsequent use compared to not filtering it. I'm not 100% confident on these opinions though, so it would be good to ask a few people including lab operators if possible.
@@pushingfilm ok great, thanks for the response!🙏
This was all I needed to pull the trigger on a 100' roll of Kodak 5207.
Nice!
Wow! So easy! Thanks!!
Tons of questions, but the most important right now is *_won't the remjet foul myC41 developer?_* The other is the possibility of scratching the emulsion. However, the ECN-2 film prices are attractive so I think I'll have to try them.
It doesn't to any noticeable degree, even after multiple rolls. Emulsion scratching is always a risk though
Sorry I meant that add a question. Does vision 3 even need stabilizer step? My understanding is that new color films usually don't need stabilization?
Awesome video! When developing in C41 chemicals what temperature do you keep the developer at? I am going to switch from using ECN2 chemicals which need the developer at 41 Degrees C and was wondering if you still use the C41 temperature of 38 Degrees C?
Also, an additional method I use to remove any residual remjet before the stabiliser, (instead of the rinse under the tap at the end) is to hang the film up wet and use a wet sponge to run down the the film’s remjet side (rinsing the sponge after every pass) and for the final few passes I use cotton pads and discard them once they are used. I’ve found this to be the quickest, cleanest and best way to avoid scratching the film.
Thanks! I currently use Tetenal C41 at 38 degrees 🙂
Can you do this before you bulk load the film? i.e in a dark bag you remove the remjet on the 100ft or 400ft roll of film then once it's dry you can put it in the bulk loader
I would imagine it's possible, since that's what Cinestill does, but I'm guessing without specialized equipment, it would be difficult to the point of not being worth it.
Awesome, Thank you!
Great Video, Thanks! 🙏
Very relevant question: Where is the best place to get cinefilm and have them properly developed and scanned here in Melbourne?
I would say B2 darkroom is the only one I know of providing it as a service here.
Will this have the look and halations of Cinestill, or is that from shooting with the washed film first and not just from washing the rem-jet off in developing?
It won't have the halations of Cinestill! This is the case with any cinema film exposed with a remjet layer. I have another video comparing Cinestill vs the original 500T etc where you can see the difference.
@@pushingfilm thank you!! All your videos have been super helpful, haven’t found many that go into this much detail about using vision3 :)
which scanner do you use btw? love your channel!!
Thank you! I use my digital camera, and have some videos about that process :-)
I have looked at the video several times. It is as you indicate fairly straightforward. But I notice after the hand rinsing, you have put the film back on the reel and then tank for the stabilizer/photoflow step. I have never had much luck getting wet film back on plastic reels. Do you have some sort of technique for that? I could see metal reels (which I no longer have) but plastic?
Respool the film on the reel underwater... it easier.
Wow man !!! 🤝🤝🤝, you are the Man !!thank !!!!
It’s sodium sulfate, borax, and sodium hydroxide and it’s way better and cheaper to mix. Then sodium bicarbonate. Kodak pre-bath is the way to go definitely nothing can compare! Also no wiping necessary. It only takes 10 seconds and it comes off like magic. It might sound cheaper to buy baking soda and I guess it is at first, but the initial total cost comes out to be way cheaper to do it the Kodak formula! Plus, it’s reusable the pH level is around 9.8 to 9.9 with Kodak formula
any tips on getting remjet off the emulsion side of the film?
After developing when trying the rinse off the remaining remjet I sometimes smear some on the emulsion side
wondering if you had the same problem?
I have this problem too I keep getting remjet stains on my emulsion side I don’t know how to prevent it
@@helloimnotwell Now I just remove it in running water one frame at a time with my fingers with some latex gloves while pulling the film out of the reel
Key is to keep the roll inside the developing reel holder while doing this
@@throwingstones96 I'll try this next time, thanks!
Awesome advice! I however find that even after baking soda and washing at the end, there still is remjet left which shows up in scanning?
I see! Are you doing both rinses at high temps, and letting the first round soak for a bit before agitating vigorously?
@@pushingfilm I think I might need to try again and leave it a bit longer. I saw that someone also recommended using a mixture of fairy liquid in the final wash to get it all off by hand?
Do you remove the remjet after you shoot it? or before?
After
Thanks for the vid! Looking into developing my own kodak vision someday and this is really helpful. I noticed your copy stand in the background, may I ask what brand it is? (I believe you used tripod earlier)
No probs! Yeah that's the new Negative Supply mini riser, I received it a few days ago and should be making a video soon 🙂
@@pushingfilm cool, look forward seeing it!
Is that safe to flush down the sink or needs special treatment for the environment?
Are you putting the film back on reels for the finishing step? How are you getting the wet film back on wet reels?
Sometimes I do ( In which case I just do it slowly and carefully. It's annoying, but it works) and at other times I cant be bothered and just run the stabiliser over the film in the bucket and snake the film around 😅 Loading wet/swollen film onto reels can also result in the ball bearing stripping bits of the emulsion off from the edges/sprockets. So, I guess I that neither is a perfect solution for that part of the process!
Does that leftover remjet ruin chemicals? I bought a hand rolled vision 200t, remjet removed. Got it developed at my locals spot and some frames had little "watermarks" . I was wondering if that was leftover remjet and if i just contaminated my photolab's chemicals
It has never done so in my experience. Remaining remjet on the film doesn't show up as watermarks per say, but rather as hard spots of white that show in your scans (on negative film, since the remjet is black)
hi! this works for fuji cinema film too? regards from Chile!
Yes! 🙂
Legend!
You crossprocess vision 3 in c41?
Does ecn2 give better results?
Whether it's better is down to preference (especially since much more difference can be made with scanning) but, ECN-2 developer will generally give a flatter/darker image.
Is there a way to remove the remjet from negatives to recover the pictures? Thanks!
Hey, I'm not sure what you mean specifically. You have little spots of remjet remaining?
@@pushingfilm A lot haha. But I already "washed it" and recovered the pictures (only 9 pictures were visible, now all of them)
so after removing the remjet with soda I can bring my film to photo studio
No, once the film is wet and heated up from remjet removal, you should process yourself immediately.
if you guys are as cheap as i am, here's my solution:
mixing the "remjet remover": 30g of baking soda/ 500mL tap water at any tempreture (as long as baking soda can desolve). solution will be clear before any use.
removing remjet:
1. pour room tempreture remjet remover into the development tank, let it sit still for 2 minutes.
2. pour the remjet remover into a bottle to reuse, the solution will turn pink and get progressively more pink with each reuse, but almost no remjet will come out with it at this step.
3. pour room tempreture tap water into the development tank, shake aggressively for a few seconds, pour out. You should see the "black water" at this step.
4. Rinse again, the water should come out with a pink tint. rinse a few more times until the water become almost clear, and your film is ready for normal C41 process.
Note:
>this method will not remove 100% of the remjet. after the development you can scrub the film under runing water, gentally, with your finger to remove any remaining remjet.
>you can almost reuse the remjet remover indefinitely
>"room tempreture" is anywhere between 15-30 degrees celsius.
>you can rinse with tap water at around 30 degrees celsius to get clear of the "pink water" faster, but it's not necessary and from my experience with hundreds of rolls, makes no noticable different.
Hey, good tip! I've never thought to re-use the solution or do it this way. Gonna try it next time, thanks 🙂
@@pushingfilm baking soda is dirt cheap comparing to C41 chemicals but still, I'm cheaper 🤣🤣
@@ZachACameraGuy Haha same, you gotta save where you can!
Wait, so you remove the rem jet layer after exposing the film? Is the rem jet layer in the way of the development chemicals?
I was under the impression that you’d remove the rem jet first, load the film canisters, expose the photos and then develop as normal.
Nope, Cinestill does that to be able to sell it ready to develop, but removing it prior to shooting is what causes halations and makes it more prone to static and other artifact. As long as it is removed prior to C41 development you're fine
That's right, as per the previous comment! In fact, you can even remove it all at the rinse stage after development and blix and it'll still work... but I prefer to do most of it beforehand.
Key tool for this process @ 2:40. That asian soup spoon is REQUIRED!
Accurate to 0.001 grams
Cinema film - Just Say No. Big no. Hell no even. It's ugly & it ruins chemicals.
Spend the money for decent film instead.