@@srfurley You can shoot 8, 3 and 2 perf with 35mm motion picture stock as well.. Granted 8 perf is barely used but that doesn't mean that it isn't possible.
@@srfurley and if anyone was still using film for animation it'd be 6 seconds if they're animating on twos, but however it's used, the point's still valid. The customers Kodak Eastman are aiming at with Vision 3 use industrial quantities of the stuff on a regular basis, so there are still economies of scale at play there that we just don't have with most stills stocks.
I bulk roll 250D and dev in Cinestill simplified powder kit c41. Love the look over ecn2 process. 400ft bulk rolled makes 6 Aussie pesos per roll including home dev costs. Remjet is dead easy to remove. Great video Ribsy.
@@slender1357 there are recipes online, but I buy and use remjet remover from Melbourne Film Supply it’s 10 bucks for two packets and each one last the same as the cinestill dev kit. Easy as first step after loading the Patterson tank is to pour in the solution at 27deg Celsius agitate hard for 10 sec pour out and the rinse with 27 deg water til water comes out pink (first couple of rinses come out back). Takes about 4 rinse/agitate cycles then process as per your c41 kit. It is no more than 2 minutes extra time. After your finished your dev you can wipe the neg on the non emulsion side with your wet fingers to remove any remaining remjet but I’ve rarely had to do that.
Decades ago when I worked in the movie lab many of us used to bulk load short ends of 5247 Eastmancolor Negative for shooting stills. We would take the exposed rolls to the negative department and as the opportunity allowed they would join them together and run them through one of the ECN2 processors. Then they would have leaders fitted and synced, joined together and be one-light printed on 5384 Eastmancolor Positive (print) film short ends using Bell and Howell Model C contact printers then went through the ECP2 processors. This gave us both a set of negatives (with a more orange/yellow base than C41 negatives so you had to allow for that when printing) and a set of slides which also doubled as a sort of contact print set for picking selects. Regarding RemJet - this was a colloidal carbon suspension coated onto the base side of the film to suppress halation from bright light passing through the emulsion then reflecting off of chrome plated pressure plates the produce unwanted halos. In a small light tight cabinet at the head of the ECN2 processor we sprayed warm water onto the base which was passed over a small drum coated with soft sponge which was changed daily. The big thing was never to allow the RemJet carbon granules to migrate onto the emulsion where they might become embedded and impossible to remove. Your sloshing around the spiral tank to wash out the RemJet made me a bit nervous, but I guess it must work for you. Thanks for the informative video!
I have been bulk loading Vision3 since 2016. When I started I was down at $1.20 USD a roll thanks to finding short ends. I just restocked and picked up 1600ft which will break down to about $3.00 USD a roll. It's definitely the most economical way to shoot film and it stores really well. What I have really wanted to try was picking up Kodak 2383/3383 and try making positives from the Vision3 negatives.
@@ribsy Keep in mind that was in 2016 when a roll of Kodak Ultramax 400 would go for about $4.70 for 24exp and there were more feature films being shot on Vision3 so short ends and recans being sold at a discount were readily available.
I bought a 100' roll of Vision3 250D recently, and I love not only the price and the quality, but the flexibility it gives me. The colors can be as good if not better than Portra, but not as punchy as Ektar when scanned. It also gives me room to experiment while only using up a few shots because I can roll anywhere from 8-36 exposures on a roll.
For those (few) who are into compounding their own photo chemistry, know that if you have the chemicals and other equipment to mix up basic B&W developers, etc., you are two-thirds of the way to making your own ECN-2 chemistry. Kodak published the "official" formulas on line long ago. You can probably buy the chemicals required for the price of two ECN-2 kits, enough to make 10+ kits. That is where the real cash savings will be found in using Vision 3 film unless you can buy a Kodak 400 foot bulk roll of film.
👍🏾🙏🏾 I was rolling my own film back in the mid eighties but finally went all digital in the early nineties but with this resurgence of the film culture, I must say that I am feeling a huge sense of nostalgia! This tip just might tempt me to put a roll in my pristine Canon 1V h again and relive the old days, who knows, maybe I might enjoy it!😂
Would like to see a comparison with filters ( daylight vs Tungsten) in different lighting situations and maybe developed in both types of chemistry. Would be a good resource for some Thanks for the great vids as always , glad I subbed a while back
vision3 is one of my faves, gave it up for a bit since i couldnt do my own dev but this (and the price hike) might inspire me to get back into it. 200t during the day give such an interesting look too!
I started rolling my own film in the 70's. 24 count exposure was my go to. Of course I was also shooting medium format professionally at 12 exposures a roll so 20 exp. on 35 mm was plenty for me.
Portra 400 is basically the same as 250D which has been matched to 500T. 500T is really great in daylight too. Use a 85 filter or correct it during scanning. Also modern films have only been designed for scanning as so far as to make them easier to scan. Their image characteristics have not been optimized specifically for that. And Vision3 looks amazing when printed onto 2338. Licorice Pizza and Tenet have been finished this way. There not low contrast because of the digital intermediate but because print film need a low contrast negative. ecn2 came up in the 70s. Motion Picture color negative film has always been flat. From my experience ecn2 film processed in C41 never really gained much speed. Maybe a third stop. I find it best to shoot them at their original box speed, where I might give ecn2 a third or two third stop of light more. But there is a reason why still film prices have gone up. There now around the same as they were in the 90s where the most film was shot. They went down when the marked crashed.
@@enque_ 250D is not the same as Portra 400. 250D is my main film and I have it processed in ECN2 and I do not get the same look as I would with Portra 400. Now, 500T shot with an 85B filter is very similar to Portra 400. Still not the same though.
@@enque_ 250D and 500T are part of the Vision3 line of films. They're all pretty close in look with some subtle differences in color reproduction. They're designed to be all used on the same movie, meaning the look should drastically change from scene to scene.
Great video, thanks for tips! Just my two cents: don't throw chemicals down the sink. At least where I live you can always take the waste to a recycling point. Cheers.
Although this is a cheaper method for color (about $5 per roll), I found it to be not so color accurate and requiring a lot of post production to get good final images vs color neg being good right off scan. This is with 250D as well. I would NOT recommend buying a whole tin. Buy a few rolls, buy CineStills ecn-2 or QWD's ecn-2 and see if you like it.
Probably worth mentioning that a 400ft Bulk Roll won't fit in one of those bulk rolling contraptions you mention, it'll need to be broken down into 4 x 100ft rolls first!
I'm with you on the Vision 3. It looks great, never mind how cheap it is. I love to use it and have a couple 100ft rolls in the fridge, waiting to have time to roll it up. Very jealous of your darkroom skills. I need to get with the program and teach myself how to print color.
My man, you are a life saver! I just got into film this year with an old Canon EOS-1N and felt like i was too late haha. But now I'm gonna start buying vision3; I enjoy the hands on process of things like this!
I broke down and bought a old Nikon D700 DSLR planning to use it as a "digital film" camera. The 12mp full frame sensor from 2008 renders film like colors and iso grain. The D700 costs as much as a Nikon F3 or FM2 which is a pretty crazy deal. It's goes well with my old manual Nikkor lenses and it feels like a digital Nikon F5.
Nice job Ribsy putting this together. FYI work with Kodak Film Lab Atlanta which is a full service motion picture lab with 16mm / 35mm color negative processing using the ECN-2 Process. We, through a local photography store DUNWOODY PHOTO located In Dunwoody, Ga. process these types of rolls for them. Customers can contact DUNWOODY PHOTO to arrange. Best, Mike
Excellent stuff. I've been kicking the idea around for a while, but it's useful to know that C-41 is still quite useable, and may even be preferable. ECN-2 kits add on about 4 quid a roll where I am, the C-41 cost is only a couple of quid per roll. Last time I bulk-rolled anything was in the early 80s.
There are workshops here selling 500T, 250D, and 50D films with DX codes for affordable prices. 500T is my favorite when shooting at 3200K. The halation effect from CineStill 800T is fun when used occasionally, but I grow tired of it seeing it in all of my photos. By contrast, the 500T is unique but also subtle. It's also very easy to buy, unlike many of Kodak and Fujifilm stock which are always out of stock.
I've been bulk loading 200t 16mm motion picture film into 110 cassettes the last few months, removing the remjet with the washing soda prebath you talked about in your video review of the cinestill ecn2 kit you made like a year back, then developing with that kit and getting results I'm really loving with the Minolta 110 Zoom SLR and a basic kodak cameo. Plus, being involved and more hands on with the film all the way through is really gratifying to me. And you're absolutely right, cost savings are huge. Price per frame for 110 I think has always been pretty high, but it's even worse now.
Great video colour darkroom printing seems wicked. I have a 100 ft roll of 250D and Double X coming from the FPP so excited. Here we have two labs that do cine film. One removes the remjet and processes C41 and the other offers ECN2 process.
Just finished my stock of 500t. Really is such a great film. i dont dev my film so sending it to a lab that does ECN2 is the only downfall as there isn't many.
If you haven’t already, look up Midwest Film Co. They primarily offer motion picture services, but they’ve branched out into stills as well. They’re scanning the stills on a motion picture scanner, too! Very unique look.
Thanks for this awesome video! Would love some exposure tests with 500T and some more of that sweet street photography pov🔥🔥 , i really can't find any, sadly.
There is a lab in Milan which is currently selling self made 250D and 500T rolls with ECN2 process. That's 25€ for two processed rolls and scanning, approx the same price for two portra 120 rolls only. Just had my 500t developed @ 2000 and the scans are CRAZY, I used it specifically for shooting a live gig with no flash. Looking forward to see the results on the 250D in which I experimented both in daylight, low light and with flash, but I could say I will no longer shoot negatives. Maybe using slide it's better for more vibrant color and stuff but the savings are evident. Great video btw I didn't now you could cross process this. Anyway I would say that pushing it to 2000 does not require that extra contrast 😅
Great video, Ribsy. I always learn a lot from your videos. Have you ever developed this film with b&w chemicals, and if so, how did it look? I’ve developed Gold 200 in caffenol and L110 (the HC110 clone) with very nice results. Thanks for all your informative videos! 👍🏻
I’m torn. One of the attractions of film photography is that “the sensor” can be placed in either a decades-old camera or a new one (just picked up one of the Reto Ultra Wides.) But I’m not going to pay $20 for a roll of Portra 400. So many - easily most - color neg in 35mm are simply not available right now. Nearly everyone is out of stock of nearly everything it seems. Hollywood seems to be a sustainable business :) And many movies are shot on Vision 3. I think we may be headed down a path where the 400ft to 100ft storage gets “easy” and from there, rolling into cartridges becomes “easy.” It’s all about removing the mystery from the process. Same as any hobby.
6:43 the reason they don’t look how you want them to is because color film was never meant to be processed by hand or at home. Yes the basic steps are the same but the sensitive nature of these chemicals, the rapid disintegration of the molecule structure of color developer, & the temperature sensitivity all made it mandatory to send the film to the lab (pre-digital) so they can produce a print with proper colors. The chemicals were always being replenished and maintained temperatures to ensure color dyes on film did not fail. BW film is so simple that you can develop with instant coffee. (My source are two former lab owners here in OC, CA)
It’s one anecdote. Platforms are commercially viable to consumers when corporations break down the price. “I” read a blog, sorry I can’t recall which, where former Ritz employees were dishing on what the store used to do … go way beyond change out dates for chems and other nastiness that would directly impact customer service. That special need of temp and chem control can be done at home, which is why people do it successfully at home. You’re referring more to efficiencies, not guarantees of success.
I roll 250D. Going to dev about 20 rolls of the stuff this weekend. So cheap. $110 for 100ft, about $5/roll and dev. If I ever get a 400ft roll, it is more like $3 for roll/dev. Also, baking soda and water does just fine. No special chems needed. I am also developing with a CD-3 kit. It is advertised as C-41, but supposedly works well for C-41 and ECN-2.
also, motion picture film is supposed to be loaded vertically so the actual frames are smaller than still photography film. Im guessing thats why vision 3 has such fine grain.
I beleive the reason you're having issues with darkroom printing ECN-2 negatives is that the gamma of the ECN-2 process is different than C-41. Process RA-4 paper is intended to be matched to the same gamma as C-41 negatives, and print film (like Process ECP-2D) is intended to be matched to ECN-2 negatives. Scanning of course doesn't matter, but when printing you want the gamma of the negatives to match the gamma of the print process--so you'll probably have better results in the darkroom if you cross process all of your Vision3 film in C-41.
Never shot with vision 3. It's a neat idea but I never touched it because of how time consuming I thought it would be, then having to source chemicals to process it and other steps. But seeing how I always wound up spending so much on film like I'm filling up my car, I think I'm slowly wanting to give it a try. Plus having that gold Kodak movie reel tin is just a nice touch of flex.
Hi Ribsy, awesome video, made me verry interested in shooting on vision3. Can you maybe make a video on how to bulk load a cinema film into little canisters?
I shoot Vison 3 from Silbersalz35. Included in the price of the film is a scan that is way better than I could do it myself. Only extra cost is returning to Germany for developing, but that is not too bad where I live. In total it is cheaper for me than Portra (with own scanning). They have 50D, 250D, 200T and 500T. I like the photos I take with this bettter than any other colour film I have tried. Added: the DX coding on the cartridges on the 500T are set to ISO250.
I love Vision films, also if you love expired films you can still find some of the old Fuji Ecn2 films too. I use the Bellini ECN2 kit as its cheaper than most of the other kits (UK/Europe at least) and it removes the remjet before the developing which I prefer. I do need to try printing some though.
I shot a few rolls of Fujifilm 64D before they (naturally) disconnected their movie film line. I developed in C41 so I can’t speak for proper ECN2 development, but that stock yielded a really interesting look with accentuated greens and yellows.
I have some in 65mm un perf but I’m not set up to process myself yet. I wanna try perf 65 or 70mm in my Hasselblad A70 back in B&W. I have old stock Tri-X but whet can I get newer stuff. The Hasselblad can be set to use in perf if I need It my new to Mamiya RB67 Pro S w/ 70mm back
I've tried 250D with c41, just washed with baking soda before usual c41 process. colors quite off but it works, need to shake quite long time though and violently
Usually no, since the remjet destroyes C41 chemicals pretty quickly. Definetly ask if your lab can deal with remjet before sending them a roll, otherwise they might charge you for new chemicals.
@@leonkrug4841 The remjet doesn't destroy the chemicals as such, but it's particles transfer into the chemicals, which then transfer it to the processing machine internals and clog up the processing machine. I was confused that a lab would make the mistake of processing a remjet film in their C-41 line, but I now see that people are being taught on YT to bulk load by recycling C-41 film cartridges, so I guess that is a real possibility. The customer's liability would not be for a box of chemicals, it would be for the tear-down and cleaning of a processing machine - not cheap.
T is for Tungsten, so, since you use it outdoors in daylight, do you filter for daylight (eg.85B), or do you simply adjust the color in the scan? I've seen many images from Cinestill 800T online, more outdoors than inside, and I can only assume that those people don't all own light balancing filters. For anyone planning to print by projection, it would make more sense to put the filter on the camera.
I do not shoot enough C-41 in 35mm format to make it likely that I will buy a 400 or 100 foot bulk roll of Vision 3 film, but I'd sure like to see a truly rigorous test and comparison of Vision 3 film, say 250D, processed in ECN-2, and printed on RA-4. Something shooting a color chart and set of B&W density patches, so a serious analysis can be made. I'd do it myself if I had the present ability, sadly not my situation. I appreciate Ribsy's prior effort(s) at this, but when you start by shooting tungsten color balanced film under florescent light sources, you've already surrendered that battle. A separate issue for bulk rolling Vision 3 film is that it is only available from Kodak in 400 foot rolls. Bulk loading from a 100 foot roll is no big deal, but getting that 400 foot roll down to four 100 foot rolls? I haven't figured a way to do that in a practical way, either has to physically managing the rolls or how to determine proper lengths. There are a few sources which are doing this break-down from the 400 foot rolls, but they also suck the majority of the film cost savings out of using Vision 3 film with their pricing.
I'm new to 35mm film photography and just bought a Canon AV-1, If I've listened correctly this is a 500 ASA/ISO if I were to use this film what should I set my camera to 400 or 800, please?
Here’s a question… can you remove the remjet layer and then load the film into a canister and go shooting with that? How would it affect the results (second question)?
It's at least theoretically possible (see Cinestill). It's worth buying a couple rolls from like FPP and experimenting! Note: be very sure you have your process down before you ever think about sending to a lab
That is what Cinestill does (all it does). So shoot a roll of Cinestill to answer your question somewhat. As far as I know, Cinestill does not reveal whatever process they use to do this, so you'd have to experiment if you want to DIY. Removal of the remjet is a wet process, normally with water jets if done commercially. I cannot imagine a situation where there would be a benefit from trying to remove the remjet before shooting, and the risk of film damage would be high.
How does the film fare in daylight? Since 500T is a tungsten film, I imagine you'd need an 85 or 81 series filter to correct the blue cast? (EDIT: I didn't watch long enough to see you address it before I posted. oops lol)
@@ribsy Thanks for the reply - I just picked up some 500T to bulk roll and I plan to shoot it box speed as recommended. As far as filters go - from what I understand, since its tungsten balanced daylight shots will come out bluer than daylight balanced film stock... but I'm not sure if its significant enough to require a filter. Wondering if you had any experience with that
I have a QWD kit too but I haven’t used it yet because I don’t want the chems to go bad before I’m done shooting all my vision3 film. Would you say the chems actually go bad after 20 days (as the package says) or do they last longer than that after they’re mixed?
What's your experience been like pushing this film? Since 250 ISO is on the lower side, and my old film camera only supports 250, 400 and 1000, I was wondering what the experience would be like shooting this with 1000 ISO for example.
The remjet layer has no effect on film speed. The emulsion layers are exposed before light reaches the remjet. If you are experiencing a 1 stop under exposure, you problem is either your meter or your use of it. In the Cinestill versions where the remjet is removed before sale, there is a bit of light reflection from the film base back into the emulsions, thus the resulting flare and "haloing", but that's nothing like a full stop. Note that Cinestill doesn't up-rate the speed on its films other than "800T"(from 500T), and that modification was made in the advertising and marketing dept, not the lab.
The reason it‘s so "cheap" is that 36 frames is only 1.5 seconds of movie 😄
Crazy
how ever you look at it, it’s cheap
It’s actually 3 seconds worth of film. Still frames are 8 perfs while motion picture frames are 4 frames.
@@srfurley You can shoot 8, 3 and 2 perf with 35mm motion picture stock as well.. Granted 8 perf is barely used but that doesn't mean that it isn't possible.
@@srfurley and if anyone was still using film for animation it'd be 6 seconds if they're animating on twos, but however it's used, the point's still valid. The customers Kodak Eastman are aiming at with Vision 3 use industrial quantities of the stuff on a regular basis, so there are still economies of scale at play there that we just don't have with most stills stocks.
I bulk roll 250D and dev in Cinestill simplified powder kit c41. Love the look over ecn2 process. 400ft bulk rolled makes 6 Aussie pesos per roll including home dev costs. Remjet is dead easy to remove. Great video Ribsy.
You’ve got it nailed down!
How do you remove the remjet?
@@slender1357 there are recipes online, but I buy and use remjet remover from Melbourne Film Supply it’s 10 bucks for two packets and each one last the same as the cinestill dev kit. Easy as first step after loading the Patterson tank is to pour in the solution at 27deg Celsius agitate hard for 10 sec pour out and the rinse with 27 deg water til water comes out pink (first couple of rinses come out back). Takes about 4 rinse/agitate cycles then process as per your c41 kit. It is no more than 2 minutes extra time. After your finished your dev you can wipe the neg on the non emulsion side with your wet fingers to remove any remaining remjet but I’ve rarely had to do that.
Decades ago when I worked in the movie lab many of us used to bulk load short ends of 5247 Eastmancolor Negative for shooting stills.
We would take the exposed rolls to the negative department and as the opportunity allowed they would join them together and run them through one of the ECN2 processors. Then they would have leaders fitted and synced, joined together and be one-light printed on 5384 Eastmancolor Positive (print) film short ends using Bell and Howell Model C contact printers then went through the ECP2 processors. This gave us both a set of negatives (with a more orange/yellow base than C41 negatives so you had to allow for that when printing) and a set of slides which also doubled as a sort of contact print set for picking selects.
Regarding RemJet - this was a colloidal carbon suspension coated onto the base side of the film to suppress halation from bright light passing through the emulsion then reflecting off of chrome plated pressure plates the produce unwanted halos. In a small light tight cabinet at the head of the ECN2 processor we sprayed warm water onto the base which was passed over a small drum coated with soft sponge which was changed daily. The big thing was never to allow the RemJet carbon granules to migrate onto the emulsion where they might become embedded and impossible to remove. Your sloshing around the spiral tank to wash out the RemJet made me a bit nervous, but I guess it must work for you.
Thanks for the informative video!
Very interesting. Yea I haven’t seen any issues with the remjet getting on the emulsion. Hopefully I’m not missing something
@@ribsy I'm sure you would notice lots of white dots on your prints. I guess what you are doing must work. Maybe RemJet has changed.
I have been bulk loading Vision3 since 2016. When I started I was down at $1.20 USD a roll thanks to finding short ends. I just restocked and picked up 1600ft which will break down to about $3.00 USD a roll. It's definitely the most economical way to shoot film and it stores really well. What I have really wanted to try was picking up Kodak 2383/3383 and try making positives from the Vision3 negatives.
Wow 1.20 is CHEAP
@@ribsy Keep in mind that was in 2016 when a roll of Kodak Ultramax 400 would go for about $4.70 for 24exp and there were more feature films being shot on Vision3 so short ends and recans being sold at a discount were readily available.
I bought a 100' roll of Vision3 250D recently, and I love not only the price and the quality, but the flexibility it gives me. The colors can be as good if not better than Portra, but not as punchy as Ektar when scanned. It also gives me room to experiment while only using up a few shots because I can roll anywhere from 8-36 exposures on a roll.
If you don’t mind me asking, where’d you buy it? I can’t find 250D anywhere in less than 200’ rolls
Def not punchy like ektar
@@evanduffy1015 FFP Store has it.
For those (few) who are into compounding their own photo chemistry, know that if you have the chemicals and other equipment to mix up basic B&W developers, etc., you are two-thirds of the way to making your own ECN-2 chemistry. Kodak published the "official" formulas on line long ago. You can probably buy the chemicals required for the price of two ECN-2 kits, enough to make 10+ kits. That is where the real cash savings will be found in using Vision 3 film unless you can buy a Kodak 400 foot bulk roll of film.
Would be cool to make my own
I kind of wish you hadn't said that, because now I feel like I need to try it!
I've switched over to vision3 a couple moths ago and learned how to pack it for 35mm and 120. Saves me a lot of money!
120? How
Sorry to hear about your moths.
👍🏾🙏🏾 I was rolling my own film back in the mid eighties but finally went all digital in the early nineties but with this resurgence of the film culture, I must say that I am feeling a huge sense of nostalgia! This tip just might tempt me to put a roll in my pristine Canon 1V h again and relive the old days, who knows, maybe I might enjoy it!😂
u will trust me
They had digital in the early 90s??
you should get back into it!
@@doctorbohr1585 Don’t think so.
@@milesian1 no. I know digital was in its early stages in the mid 90s; but didn't think it was possible to go full digital in the early 90s.
Would like to see a comparison with filters ( daylight vs Tungsten) in different lighting situations and maybe developed in both types of chemistry.
Would be a good resource for some
Thanks for the great vids as always , glad I subbed a while back
That sounds like a lot of work 😅
It IS a lot of work
You can just watch some movies shot on Vision3 lol
vision3 is one of my faves, gave it up for a bit since i couldnt do my own dev but this (and the price hike) might inspire me to get back into it. 200t during the day give such an interesting look too!
Good call. Def wanna try 200t
I started rolling my own film in the 70's. 24 count exposure was my go to. Of course I was also shooting medium format professionally at 12 exposures a roll so 20 exp. on 35 mm was plenty for me.
yea 35mm really is plenty, especially by comparison
Portra 400 is basically the same as 250D which has been matched to 500T. 500T is really great in daylight too. Use a 85 filter or correct it during scanning. Also modern films have only been designed for scanning as so far as to make them easier to scan. Their image characteristics have not been optimized specifically for that. And Vision3 looks amazing when printed onto 2338. Licorice Pizza and Tenet have been finished this way. There not low contrast because of the digital intermediate but because print film need a low contrast negative. ecn2 came up in the 70s. Motion Picture color negative film has always been flat. From my experience ecn2 film processed in C41 never really gained much speed. Maybe a third stop. I find it best to shoot them at their original box speed, where I might give ecn2 a third or two third stop of light more.
But there is a reason why still film prices have gone up. There now around the same as they were in the 90s where the most film was shot. They went down when the marked crashed.
That’s what I hear!
Can you elaborate on what you mean by 250D matched to 500T? How would you go about doing this?
@@enque_ 250D is not the same as Portra 400. 250D is my main film and I have it processed in ECN2 and I do not get the same look as I would with Portra 400. Now, 500T shot with an 85B filter is very similar to Portra 400. Still not the same though.
Plenty of productions use 500T in daylight with no correcting filter, and simply correct it in post. One example is HBO's Succession.
@@enque_ 250D and 500T are part of the Vision3 line of films. They're all pretty close in look with some subtle differences in color reproduction. They're designed to be all used on the same movie, meaning the look should drastically change from scene to scene.
Great video, thanks for tips! Just my two cents: don't throw chemicals down the sink. At least where I live you can always take the waste to a recycling point. Cheers.
Sounds good
@@ribsy Sounds good? It should be obvious that you care for the environment, because it's everyone's habitat, including yours.
Although this is a cheaper method for color (about $5 per roll), I found it to be not so color accurate and requiring a lot of post production to get good final images vs color neg being good right off scan. This is with 250D as well. I would NOT recommend buying a whole tin. Buy a few rolls, buy CineStills ecn-2 or QWD's ecn-2 and see if you like it.
thats surprising. generally i find all film should be adjusted after the initial scan
Probably worth mentioning that a 400ft Bulk Roll won't fit in one of those bulk rolling contraptions you mention, it'll need to be broken down into 4 x 100ft rolls first!
yea def!
I'm with you on the Vision 3. It looks great, never mind how cheap it is. I love to use it and have a couple 100ft rolls in the fridge, waiting to have time to roll it up.
Very jealous of your darkroom skills. I need to get with the program and teach myself how to print color.
Yea I like the look!
My man, you are a life saver! I just got into film this year with an old Canon EOS-1N and felt like i was too late haha. But now I'm gonna start buying vision3; I enjoy the hands on process of things like this!
Oh you are def not too late
Can’t believe I wasn’t already subscribed 🤯. I’m gonna have to seek some of this film out 🙏
welcome!
I broke down and bought a old Nikon D700 DSLR planning to use it as a "digital film" camera. The 12mp full frame sensor from 2008 renders film like colors and iso grain. The D700 costs as much as a Nikon F3 or FM2 which is a pretty crazy deal. It's goes well with my old manual Nikkor lenses and it feels like a digital Nikon F5.
Yea sounds cool
Nice job Ribsy putting this together. FYI work with Kodak Film Lab Atlanta which is a full service motion picture lab with 16mm / 35mm color negative processing using the ECN-2 Process. We, through a local photography store DUNWOODY PHOTO located In Dunwoody, Ga. process these types of rolls for them. Customers can contact DUNWOODY PHOTO to arrange.
Best,
Mike
Go to know!
Great video, and happy to see Hill Farmstead represented!
🙌🏽
I use Vision 3 250 D , 500 T and now 50D. Fantastic stock, love it. Here in Brazil costs 1/4 of a roll of Portra.
Yea! Def worth using it
Excellent stuff. I've been kicking the idea around for a while, but it's useful to know that C-41 is still quite useable, and may even be preferable. ECN-2 kits add on about 4 quid a roll where I am, the C-41 cost is only a couple of quid per roll.
Last time I bulk-rolled anything was in the early 80s.
Glad to help!
There are workshops here selling 500T, 250D, and 50D films with DX codes for affordable prices. 500T is my favorite when shooting at 3200K. The halation effect from CineStill 800T is fun when used occasionally, but I grow tired of it seeing it in all of my photos. By contrast, the 500T is unique but also subtle. It's also very easy to buy, unlike many of Kodak and Fujifilm stock which are always out of stock.
glad you have access to vision3!
I've been bulk loading 200t 16mm motion picture film into 110 cassettes the last few months, removing the remjet with the washing soda prebath you talked about in your video review of the cinestill ecn2 kit you made like a year back, then developing with that kit and getting results I'm really loving with the Minolta 110 Zoom SLR and a basic kodak cameo. Plus, being involved and more hands on with the film all the way through is really gratifying to me. And you're absolutely right, cost savings are huge. Price per frame for 110 I think has always been pretty high, but it's even worse now.
all about the cost savings!
Great video colour darkroom printing seems wicked. I have a 100 ft roll of 250D and Double X coming from the FPP so excited. Here we have two labs that do cine film. One removes the remjet and processes C41 and the other offers ECN2 process.
Oh you have labs that do it - that’s clutch!
Just finished my stock of 500t. Really is such a great film. i dont dev my film so sending it to a lab that does ECN2 is the only downfall as there isn't many.
Time to buy more 😃
If you haven’t already, look up Midwest Film Co. They primarily offer motion picture services, but they’ve branched out into stills as well. They’re scanning the stills on a motion picture scanner, too! Very unique look.
@@MrAndrewClaycomb hey thanks, I’ll def check them out!
Just bought a qwd kit this morning before seeing your video! Looking forward to that remjet pour 😂
Haha yup! Enjoy
You convinced me! I ll by a roll! Plus the ECN-2 kit. Thanks!!!!
do it 😀
Thanks for this awesome video! Would love some exposure tests with 500T and some more of that sweet street photography pov🔥🔥 , i really can't find any, sadly.
Maybe one day 😀
Try the film photography project
@@cjbridger3716 Thanks for the recommendation ill check it out
I really want to get into bulk rolling! Great video as always bro!
Yea I’m gonna dive into it
Great tips, looking to get into development at home here but haven't started. Greetings from VT, nice shirt ⚡
Cheers! Good luck
This is HUGE! Thank you so much for this! Gonna check out that ECN-2 v C-41 vid!
Yea def do!
There is a lab in Milan which is currently selling self made 250D and 500T rolls with ECN2 process. That's 25€ for two processed rolls and scanning, approx the same price for two portra 120 rolls only.
Just had my 500t developed @ 2000 and the scans are CRAZY, I used it specifically for shooting a live gig with no flash. Looking forward to see the results on the 250D in which I experimented both in daylight, low light and with flash, but I could say I will no longer shoot negatives. Maybe using slide it's better for more vibrant color and stuff but the savings are evident.
Great video btw I didn't now you could cross process this. Anyway I would say that pushing it to 2000 does not require that extra contrast 😅
oh very cool. thats a great deal!
I am guessing the lady in blue top was taken at book fair on the South Bank.... I have shots taken there too some years ago..... Cool!
Great video, Ribsy. I always learn a lot from your videos. Have you ever developed this film with b&w chemicals, and if so, how did it look? I’ve developed Gold 200 in caffenol and L110 (the HC110 clone) with very nice results. Thanks for all your informative videos! 👍🏻
thanks! and no i haven't 😀
Just bought the Analogue wonderland startup kit at a bargain price. Can't wait to try colour developing for the 1st time
Yea you won’t regret it
I am considering buying the 70mm version of this film and repackage it for my Hasselblad A70 back.
do it!
Hey man, great video and great tip, but don't throw your chems in to the sink, that's so bad for the water!
👍
I’m torn. One of the attractions of film photography is that “the sensor” can be placed in either a decades-old camera or a new one (just picked up one of the Reto Ultra Wides.)
But I’m not going to pay $20 for a roll of Portra 400. So many - easily most - color neg in 35mm are simply not available right now. Nearly everyone is out of stock of nearly everything it seems.
Hollywood seems to be a sustainable business :) And many movies are shot on Vision 3. I think we may be headed down a path where the 400ft to 100ft storage gets “easy” and from there, rolling into cartridges becomes “easy.”
It’s all about removing the mystery from the process. Same as any hobby.
yea its not sustainable to pay $20 a roll
great video, just recently picked up a few rolls of this while in Vietnam
Nice!
Bro, thanks for the vid, you won a subscriber!😎🙌👌
Welcome
6:43 the reason they don’t look how you want them to is because color film was never meant to be processed by hand or at home.
Yes the basic steps are the same but the sensitive nature of these chemicals, the rapid disintegration of the molecule structure of color developer, & the temperature sensitivity all made it mandatory to send the film to the lab (pre-digital) so they can produce a print with proper colors. The chemicals were always being replenished and maintained temperatures to ensure color dyes on film did not fail.
BW film is so simple that you can develop with instant coffee.
(My source are two former lab owners here in OC, CA)
sounds like a lab owner doesn't want you to dev at home cuz they will lose business 😂
@@ribsy clearly you didn’t read the part where it says “two former lab owners”
It’s one anecdote. Platforms are commercially viable to consumers when corporations break down the price.
“I” read a blog, sorry I can’t recall which, where former Ritz employees were dishing on what the store used to do … go way beyond change out dates for chems and other nastiness that would directly impact customer service.
That special need of temp and chem control can be done at home, which is why people do it successfully at home. You’re referring more to efficiencies, not guarantees of success.
I roll 250D. Going to dev about 20 rolls of the stuff this weekend. So cheap. $110 for 100ft, about $5/roll and dev. If I ever get a 400ft roll, it is more like $3 for roll/dev. Also, baking soda and water does just fine. No special chems needed.
I am also developing with a CD-3 kit. It is advertised as C-41, but supposedly works well for C-41 and ECN-2.
Yea you can make your own remjet remover
This video is actually quite useful! Thank you!
im glad😀
also, motion picture film is supposed to be loaded vertically so the actual frames are smaller than still photography film. Im guessing thats why vision 3 has such fine grain.
Yea makes sense
Awesome video and channel. Thank you for this. Subbed
welcome aboard!
You seem like a chill dude, good video. Shame I don't shoot in colour 😅
You should try it!
Damn dude, badass video, super informative, love it
Thanks for watching!
I beleive the reason you're having issues with darkroom printing ECN-2 negatives is that the gamma of the ECN-2 process is different than C-41. Process RA-4 paper is intended to be matched to the same gamma as C-41 negatives, and print film (like Process ECP-2D) is intended to be matched to ECN-2 negatives. Scanning of course doesn't matter, but when printing you want the gamma of the negatives to match the gamma of the print process--so you'll probably have better results in the darkroom if you cross process all of your Vision3 film in C-41.
thanks for the info
This Video Might Eff The Vision3 For Stills Game Up 😂
Keep The Videos Coming
Yup!
Never shot with vision 3. It's a neat idea but I never touched it because of how time consuming I thought it would be, then having to source chemicals to process it and other steps. But seeing how I always wound up spending so much on film like I'm filling up my car, I think I'm slowly wanting to give it a try. Plus having that gold Kodak movie reel tin is just a nice touch of flex.
Def worth a try!
Hi Ribsy, awesome video, made me verry interested in shooting on vision3. Can you maybe make a video on how to bulk load a cinema film into little canisters?
I’ve never done that, yet
Looks really good to me, going to have to try it out myself. I've been shooting mostly b&w recently because of the price of color.
Yea it’s worth to try
From what I've read online, Cinestill is Vision3 500T with the remjet removed.
yup!
Hill Farmstead is killing!!!! It's too bad that they are hard to come by in France. I wish I could enjoy more american farm ales
Haha
I shoot Vison 3 from Silbersalz35. Included in the price of the film is a scan that is way better than I could do it myself. Only extra cost is returning to Germany for developing, but that is not too bad where I live. In total it is cheaper for me than Portra (with own scanning). They have 50D, 250D, 200T and 500T. I like the photos I take with this bettter than any other colour film I have tried. Added: the DX coding on the cartridges on the 500T are set to ISO250.
Yea I’ve always thought about trying silbersalz
Thanks for the DX code! I have some 500T, the packaging says to expose at 500iso during nighttime, 320 during daytime (with a 85b filter)
Oh, it's amazing, could you please share the website that you bought it.
just check ebay or google. lots of sellers now
I love Vision films, also if you love expired films you can still find some of the old Fuji Ecn2 films too. I use the Bellini ECN2 kit as its cheaper than most of the other kits (UK/Europe at least) and it removes the remjet before the developing which I prefer. I do need to try printing some though.
Yea I’ve considered checking some of the expired versions
I shot a few rolls of Fujifilm 64D before they (naturally) disconnected their movie film line. I developed in C41 so I can’t speak for proper ECN2 development, but that stock yielded a really interesting look with accentuated greens and yellows.
Pretty sure Call Me By Your Name was shot on this film. The colours in the film were stunning.
Yea definitely!
Did Nooottt expect that you live here in the UK. Would love to shoot some time :)
not for long! haha
I have some in 65mm un perf but I’m not set up to process myself yet. I wanna try perf 65 or 70mm in my Hasselblad A70 back in B&W. I have old stock Tri-X but whet can I get newer stuff. The Hasselblad can be set to use in perf if I need It my new to Mamiya RB67 Pro S w/ 70mm back
can you make a video on how to go about buying this film and what the differences are in D and T and how to expose for it
maybe one day
Have you considered cross processing? E6 slide ? Would be a very interesting video , sending love from France 🇫🇷
i have, but haven't done it
I've tried 250D with c41, just washed with baking soda before usual c41 process. colors quite off but it works, need to shake quite long time though and violently
try washing soda, not baking soda. you should get good results by using normal c41 process//times
Wonderful video! But how did you put that film in a canister? Usually you can enroll 30mt film but not 100mt of film
I bought it rolled already. I don’t bulk roll myself
Do you know if you can get labs to develop ECN2 film with the C41 process? awesome video, keep it up! :)
Usually no, since the remjet destroyes C41 chemicals pretty quickly. Definetly ask if your lab can deal with remjet before sending them a roll, otherwise they might charge you for new chemicals.
Not sure. The remjet still needs to be handled
@@leonkrug4841 The remjet doesn't destroy the chemicals as such, but it's particles transfer into the chemicals, which then transfer it to the processing machine internals and clog up the processing machine. I was confused that a lab would make the mistake of processing a remjet film in their C-41 line, but I now see that people are being taught on YT to bulk load by recycling C-41 film cartridges, so I guess that is a real possibility. The customer's liability would not be for a box of chemicals, it would be for the tear-down and cleaning of a processing machine - not cheap.
@@randallstewart175 good point!
Yes, there's a few labs that will do it in America. There's also labs that will process it in ECN2.
I dev all my color at home in ecn2, even a bunch of rolls of Kodak BW400cn.
Good!
T is for Tungsten, so, since you use it outdoors in daylight, do you filter for daylight (eg.85B), or do you simply adjust the color in the scan? I've seen many images from Cinestill 800T online, more outdoors than inside, and I can only assume that those people don't all own light balancing filters. For anyone planning to print by projection, it would make more sense to put the filter on the camera.
So I’ve never used a filter and the blue cast is fairly tame. Perhaps not color “accurate” but 100% usable and fairly neutral
Looks a nice film I’ll have to try it
Yea definitely!
I do not shoot enough C-41 in 35mm format to make it likely that I will buy a 400 or 100 foot bulk roll of Vision 3 film, but I'd sure like to see a truly rigorous test and comparison of Vision 3 film, say 250D, processed in ECN-2, and printed on RA-4. Something shooting a color chart and set of B&W density patches, so a serious analysis can be made. I'd do it myself if I had the present ability, sadly not my situation. I appreciate Ribsy's prior effort(s) at this, but when you start by shooting tungsten color balanced film under florescent light sources, you've already surrendered that battle.
A separate issue for bulk rolling Vision 3 film is that it is only available from Kodak in 400 foot rolls. Bulk loading from a 100 foot roll is no big deal, but getting that 400 foot roll down to four 100 foot rolls? I haven't figured a way to do that in a practical way, either has to physically managing the rolls or how to determine proper lengths. There are a few sources which are doing this break-down from the 400 foot rolls, but they also suck the majority of the film cost savings out of using Vision 3 film with their pricing.
That’s a lot of work. Not for me
Great video! Thanks mate 🙌🏼
Thanks for watching!
I have a Plustek OpticFilm 8100 scanner...and I wonder how do you scan it or how do you balance out the colors when in lightroom for example?:))
depends on the image. i go more for color accuracy
I'm new to 35mm film photography and just bought a Canon AV-1, If I've listened correctly this is a 500 ASA/ISO if I were to use this film what should I set my camera to 400 or 800, please?
Kodak Vision 3 35mm film for 35mm stills brilliant idea.
Haha yea
Darkroom printing your film. Can you please tell us what system you use? Something like RA4, for example?
yes RA4. lots of videos on my channel about it
Love the T shirt. Great beer.
Haha yea!
Have you tried to process Portra with ECN2? I've seen some very interesting results doing it that way.
I haven’t yet, but want to
Here’s a question… can you remove the remjet layer and then load the film into a canister and go shooting with that? How would it affect the results (second question)?
It's at least theoretically possible (see Cinestill). It's worth buying a couple rolls from like FPP and experimenting!
Note: be very sure you have your process down before you ever think about sending to a lab
It’s possible. But probably very difficult given everything has to happen in the dark
That is what Cinestill does (all it does). So shoot a roll of Cinestill to answer your question somewhat. As far as I know, Cinestill does not reveal whatever process they use to do this, so you'd have to experiment if you want to DIY. Removal of the remjet is a wet process, normally with water jets if done commercially. I cannot imagine a situation where there would be a benefit from trying to remove the remjet before shooting, and the risk of film damage would be high.
The real question here is now that you've convinced me to shoot it, are you gonna help me develop it too lol???
Nope lol
Ecn2 is easy and fast. If I can do it I know you can do it too.
How does the film fare in daylight? Since 500T is a tungsten film, I imagine you'd need an 85 or 81 series filter to correct the blue cast? (EDIT: I didn't watch long enough to see you address it before I posted. oops lol)
Haha all good. A filter is useful but not necessary imo
just looked at some of this film at a film place near me and it’s 8 USD a roll of 36 exposure 🔥
thats a great price!
very good video, thanks!
thanks for watching
Have u pushed it to 800 or 1600 & if so, how would u compare its grain texture to portra. 800?
oh i haven't pushed it that far, so i dunno
Been using 500T for a year now. I love it.
yea its great!
When shooting Vision 3, what ISO setting do you put your camera on? Are there any special lens filters needed for shooting with it?>
depends on which vision 3. i always shoot it box speed
@@ribsy Thanks for the reply - I just picked up some 500T to bulk roll and I plan to shoot it box speed as recommended. As far as filters go - from what I understand, since its tungsten balanced daylight shots will come out bluer than daylight balanced film stock... but I'm not sure if its significant enough to require a filter. Wondering if you had any experience with that
Yo
Mainstreaming a so called cheap trick it might increase the price, did you know it?
Vision3 is already mainstream. Stop gatekeeping
Great video bro
Thanks for watching!
Where do you purchase your film?? I'd like to try this!
Try eBay
I used to use film. Thank God no more. Digital is so much easier.
It def is easier
@@ribsy And cheaper. Plus the space for a darkroom and all the equipment. I use my Iphone to make most of my you tube videos.
hey man, if you remove the remjet layer and and develop it in c41 would it look the same or would you have to use ecn2?
It will look good, but won’t look the same
I have a QWD kit too but I haven’t used it yet because I don’t want the chems to go bad before I’m done shooting all my vision3 film. Would you say the chems actually go bad after 20 days (as the package says) or do they last longer than that after they’re mixed?
I find the developer can go bad quickly if not taken care of
I don't develop my own film (yet). Is there a company that will, if I send them this? I live on the east coast, but I like Photoworks in San Francisco
yea try midwest photo
Hey do you take the remjet after or before you take your photos?
During development
What's your experience been like pushing this film? Since 250 ISO is on the lower side, and my old film camera only supports 250, 400 and 1000, I was wondering what the experience would be like shooting this with 1000 ISO for example.
as long as your scene is properly lit to the desired ISO, you can push the film. lack of light will be a problem even if you push the film
How didn't I hear about your channel earlier?!
welcome!
So when does EZ500T hit the stores? B&H will do a roll of 1000' of 65mm good to cut down to 120? 🤣
haha that has a nice ring to it!
What do you rate your 500T? I bought some in bulk and I have to overexpose +1 stop I think because of the remjet layer.
I rate at 500. Sometimes 400
The remjet layer has no effect on film speed. The emulsion layers are exposed before light reaches the remjet. If you are experiencing a 1 stop under exposure, you problem is either your meter or your use of it. In the Cinestill versions where the remjet is removed before sale, there is a bit of light reflection from the film base back into the emulsions, thus the resulting flare and "haloing", but that's nothing like a full stop. Note that Cinestill doesn't up-rate the speed on its films other than "800T"(from 500T), and that modification was made in the advertising and marketing dept, not the lab.
do you use filter for T films or di you just edit the color cast in post?
no filter, but its def worth using one
in my country, 500T is cheap but having it developed is so expensive
you try doing it yourself?