Here in Germany I use mostly ATE like you mentioned and sometimes Zimmermann, Brembo and maybe Textar. Akebono is not available from my suppliers, so cant tell. For BMW M models only the genuine pads and rotors, you feel the difference, the multi-part rotors are made by BMW itself in their own facility for a reason.
Recently replaced rotors & pads on my 2017 Sub. Impreza using slotted Powerstop rotors. It’s been about 3 months and they’re working like a charm still. I think the brand is definitely impactful, but more than anything it comes down to following proper installation & break-in procedures. It’s the people cutting corners with 30 min brake jobs that get into trouble… don’t bleed the dirty brake fluid, don’t properly break the pad material in… neglect to grease the pins or apply anti-seize in the correct areas (if at all). In the final counting, you save much more time doing it right the first time. Sure, it’s an investment, but like most aspects of life, an ounce of prevention equates to a pound of cure. Appreciate the guidance! I will definitely be strongly considering Akebono (sp?) for my next pad replacements!
20-30 years ago, Ford put out a service bulletin to their dealers. Genuine OEM rotors were warping at a high rate due to authorized, certified, highly trained Forx mechanics over-torquing the lug nuts. Using a torque wrench and proper installation of the wheels were all that was needed.
I used to have a smart car and that can be a problem with them as well. It has three lug nuts, and if you over tighten them, it will cause the rotors to warp
I had that happen on my old 2001 F250 diesel. Replaced rotors 2x until I found this out and started re-torquing the lug nuts after anything related to removing the wheels (new tires/rotations). Never had an issue after that.
I have heard this as well, but this contradicts what he says in the video. Improperly torqued lugs would physically warp the rotor not cause uneven pad material like he says. I agree with you.
My shop has none of these available unless I want to ship them in from Worldpac. Raysbestos Element3 coated rotors are what I have used and never had an issue. Throw one on the lathe everyone once and awhile new and never any runout. Typically they come in around .030-.040 thicker than the Napa or O'Rielly cheap rotors which I think helps with warping and also gives me a shot at machining at least if it's needed.
I'm 80 yrs old, lifetime shade tree mechanic, degreed engineer, and I have replaced my brakes every time needed all my life. I used to get rotors turned or resurfaced when they were warped and I watched them being resurfaced. After watching many rotors being resurfaced I disagree that rotors don't warp due to what needed cutting. I owned a 95 Mark VIII Lincoln for 9 years (loved that car) that had undersized front rotors and ONE panic stop would warp them. Yeah, I read the white paper floating around the internet written by a race team member who claimed rotors don't warp. You believe what you want and I will believe what I want to based on my experience.
You’re challenging him but made an anecdotal example. Rotors don’t “warp”, I have yet to see anyone lay a “warped” rotor on a flat surface and show me the rotor not sitting evenly. As he stated it’s uneven pad transfer that builds up on cheap rotors.
I have to agree. Where is this pad material that accumulates? I can prove a brake rotor is warped. Put it on a brake lathe and watch it spin. As you move the bit closer to the rotor, you can literally see that its warped. If I had to guess, there may be some type of miscommunication going on. One of the ways you can warp a brake rotor is by keeping pressure on the brake pedal when you come to a stop. Especially if you've been driving fast and really have them heated up. At higher temperatures, the metal gets softer, and the brake calipers are very strong. Maybe something like that is really going on, and is being mistaken for pad transfer.
@@jmm5346 Like I said in my post, I've watched many warped rotors turning on the lathe and it was obvious that they were warped. But those with no personal experience will believe what someone else writes that rotors don't warp. If it is metal transfer from the pads to the rotor, then if you use ceramic pads you will never have "warped" rotors. Right? BS
I COMPLETELY AGREE that the rotors almost NEVER WARP. Every mechanic that has turned rotors always argues the same point: "I can see and hear the knife on the lathe touch the spot where its "warped" " Its because it is physically thicker from the transfer of pad material. Mark the spot where the knife touches, and then notice it will not be 180 degrees on the other side where it touches. Usually its on the same place on the other side of the rotor. Also, even a super small amount of transfer will cause the pads to grab harder in that spot. hence the horrible shake with bad rotors. Good points about a "warped" rotor not wobbling on a super flat surface. .
With 45 years in the business I have seen many warped rotors. When you put them on the brake lathe and the cutting bits only hit on part of the rotor and on alternating sides the rotors are warped. Also if the rotors are severely warped they will warp again in short order after they are turned. In my personal experiance my wife had a 1989 Plymouth Acclaim with a 2.5 turbo in it. She only had two speeds fast and stopped. In Michigan she would warp the rotors every winter. Running through cold water and slush with a hot rotor would defiantly warp them. I was using genuine Chrysler parts because I worked at the dealer. Finally I got tired of replacing the rotors for the big bucks and bought a set of cheep rotors at AutoZone. She never warped the rotors again!!
This may be for the majority but I can attest to warped rotors not caused by pad transfer. Metal expands and contracts based on temperature and that does cause warping which is why they make two piece designs to help minimize warping. For every paper saying it doesn’t there is at least another one saying it does. I had hoped to watch a video to learn something and not hear someone start off by saying what I experienced when attempting to turn my rotors didn’t happen. When the machine is surfacing one half of the rotor on one side then the opposite half on the other those rotors are warped. I scraped those and bought a new set.
I agree. I’ve had warped rotors and watched them spin on a lathe were 100% warped not “brake pad transfer” which I don’t believe is even possible lol. How many times has a rotor measured thicker after use? Zero.
I seen that more often now with ceramic pads. I never had problem with metallic pads, now every 6 months have to resurface rotors no matter how i bead the pads. definitely gonna try akebono
Good parts are certainly important, but I believe meticulous installation is even more important. I mount each rotor and check for runout with dial caliper, clean the parts thoroughly, torque lug nuts carefully, etc, etc. Then I educate the customer about using the brakes, i.e., don't come hard off a long highway ramp doing 80mph to a stop light and hold the brakes, let the vehicle move a little every few seconds so pad material doesn't stick to hot rotor. Anyway, brakes are like everything else in life, there's more to it than you'd think.
THANKS for the awesome videos .... I am VERY interested in your thoughts on Power Stop Evolution Drilled & Slotted Rotors It is the only rotor that stopped the actual warpage on my 2016 Acadia Denali ... Grant it I did NOT try the brands that you showed on this video. I am an old time racer and a machinist and probably beat the car up a bit but since I changed to these rotors and metallic pads, the car stops on a dime and has smooth consistant braking. Penny for your thoughts.
I would agree on both counts. The only time I don't use Akebono is when they don't make pads for an application. I also like the Bosch quietcast rotors when I can't find AC Delco coated rotors.
Raybestos Police rotors on the front of my 15 explorer XLT with Wagner coated on the rears and Akebono pads all around. Extremely smooth braking and never a single sound has been heard so far
Ive done both aggressive break in and the softer break in the rotors and pads. I find the softer break in procedure to be better to brake performance. It does take a lot long but i like it better. I can brake down to the point of where you can feel if you've actually stopped or not. Basically i can stop pretty smooth. Without that whiplash at the end. Just have to be good with the foot work.
Agreed about the footwork. Passengers (including friends who let me drive their cars) have consistently been impressed with the finesse. Like I’ll drive their stick shift and they’ll ask me how the hell the shifts are so smooth, even I can’t get it like that and it’s been my daily for years. I tell em it’s all in feathering that clutch and gas just right. Same with braking… when you’re getting close to stopping you gotta back off a bit and finesse it until you stop without feeling like you’re getting pushed forward. They’re always like how? This is witchcraft! It’s all in the foot work, like you said.
Ford had a TSB out in the early to mid 90’s about wrapped rotors. It was especially problematic on the Taurus and Probes. The cause was lateral runout (warping) caused by improper wheel nut torquing. It was obviously the cause, because you could watch the comebacks based on who did and didn’t torque their wheels All of that said, I think your videos are well done and provide great information and insight. The discussion are also informative. Thanks for taking the time and effort to make them.
Surprisingly I’ve had bad luck with Textar this year. 3 come backs with textar 0 with any other car and brand we use. One of them we got everything replaced under warranty (pads and rotors) and still had the same problem till we swapped them again to aki’s
Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom and sincere knowledge. You do an excellent job in throughly breaking the information down. God bless your business and staff!!!!
What you're talking about is what I know as hot-spotting. There used to be an excellent technical article online about it, haven't been able to find it lately. It's not that it affects the thickness of the rotors, its that the burned-on deposits affect friction, resulting in the pulsing you initially feel. However the difference in friction then results in uneven heating of the rotor, and that can then lead to actual warping. So pads that don't result in hot-spotting will save your rotors, and some pads can actually remove material from previously hot-spotted rotors. In the motorcycle world Joe Minton of 1980's Motorcyclist magazine would recommend Ferodo pads on that basis. Sure enough I started using Ferodo pads and never had brake pulsations after that - and on some bikes where I bought used, if I swapped to those pads any minor pulsation would go away.
I used brembo UV coated rotors with akebono pads on my daughter's car. I was very happy with them. I tried the power stop kit on my car... also no issues so far.
That's the exact combination I just bought, putting them on tomorrow. I know the Akebonos are good, but have never bought those rotors. It's one of the most well-known companies, and the price was right so I went with them. Hoping they're good.
I've been disappointed that more and more manufacturers have been going to China to produce their products. That said, I've had pretty good luck with ATE, Zimmerman, and Textar brake products - some are made in Germany, some are made somewhere in the EU, and some are made (unfortunately) in China. I think the QC is still better on these brands, even if they might be made in China...vs some lesser brands (auto parts store in-house brands).
Awesome!! Thanks for the video and the great info you provide on quality work!! This type of content as well as how to do things the right way like the brake pad video is great content in my opinion and what I look forward to the most!! Keep it up and thanks again!
I've been using brembo rotors on the front of my Mustang track car and I can usually get two seasons out of them. The rear gets motorcraft and they hold up just as well.
The shop I work for (commercial leasing) replaces rotors and drums every brake job. For the past 40 years I have always replaced my own rotors every pad change because of my experiences having rotors turned after new pads and they have issues after a few hard braking events. Once a rotor goes bad it can never be saved, Its the part of the casting that can not be turned that hides the issue and turning is a temporary solution.
I had no Idea that Akebono made rotors. A few years back I emailed the company for recommendations for rotors and they didn’t have any. Maybe only professional shops can get them? At least now I know Brembo has your approval! 😊
I have a 2013 Mercedes C300 with 181,000. I’ve only had to perform one brake job. A testament to the quality of the factory Mercedes parts. I replaced the brakes at 65,000 miles with Zimmermann rotors and MB pads.
The black rotors that come from autozone, they give you an insane vibration and crazy noises and feeling the first few times you hit the brakes until that black wears off. I can imagine if someone doesn’t know any better they would assume something went wrong when they first hit the brakes lol
Warped rotors are a thing. I can promise you that. If you've ever turned a rotor and it has skipped sections of the rotor no matter how big or small, it's warped. Its even more obvious if you measure it and it's pretty consistent all around but still has skipped sections on a rough cut. I just don't understand why people are saying it isn't a thing.
@@CD-bm6rc Warping due to heat most certainly is a thing! Abusing rotors can actually glow orange, they're most likely warped at this point and probably ruined (I wouldn't trust them). I had some rotors on my car that were spider-web cracked due to abuse, luckily they didn't fall apart.
I had a Chevy truck. With undersized rotors. They always warped. You could put a dual caliper and see it. I don't really care why. You have to replace them regardless.
Just changed all 4 corners of my VW to Akebono and Bosch quietcast coated rotors. Bosch has a very solid coating, my Centrics and Raybestos both stated rusting too quickly. Made in China now can mean higher quality because margins are better, so you invest in product quality.
DTV. Diametral Thickness Variation. Caused by initial runout of the rotor and long distance without brake applies. The runout causes uneven wear on the rotor. 40 years as a brake systems and components engineer with over 20 years of product validation testing. I write the procedures, run the logistics, build the cars, drive the tests, analyze the data, write the reports and interface with the customer(s).
May I ask how "long distance without brake applies" causes runout or uneven wear on a rotor? Are you saying long distance road trips on the interstate without applying the brakes causes brake issues or am I missing something? I am just curious or looking for an explanation for my own knowledge.
The need to bed in pads and rotors depends on what you buy. I have a big brake kit stock on my infiniti. Replaced pads with akebono ACT. The instructions specifically said that no bedding was necessary. Just avoid hard stops where possible for the first 500 miles. This was on centric rotors rather than brembo. I've done many brake jobs so was skeptical. I've done them twice since purchasing the car 12 years ago. No "warping" until later in life of the pads.
Great video. Thanks. What about Ferodo pads and Rotors. They seem to be up there with Zimmerman and Textar. Looking to replace pads and rotors on our 2012 Mazda 6.
the new Orielly select pro rotors work very well, they have the silver coating and do not rust for more than a year, and I am in Ohio, I see the first ones I did with them and 2 years later the brakes still look and perform like new
I like TRW, which is very similar to ATE. My BMW has ATE at the front and TRW at the back from the factory. And TRW quite easy to get in Australia. Very difficult to get Akebono in Australia
Love your videos, I have a 2020 Toyota sequoia SR5 that I use for work and carry about 1500 to 1700lbs of weight constant. I love your recommendation video on Akebono brakes pads. With that much weight is it better for me to get drilled and slotted rotors for the heat and weight?
I like and install several Chinese rotor ,dura, centric , medium grade brake pads with no issues,i always perform a break in toad test,no hi speed stop ,thank you rock auto all the parts your car will ever need
I've been using Power stop fully coated on most of my brake jobs with thier 17 sieries pads for everyday drivers , quiet nice feel always take a 15 mile brake in drive when done. Did texrars pads rotors on a few older inports too but always see made in China still way better then any white box junk out there
Yup, Power Stop is my go-to. Using their carbon ceramic pads for the first time, good stuff. Fully coated is worth the beans in rust belt or not. They just look better for longer.
Thanks to you I've now satisfied my curiosity about Power STOP. I've been wondering if I should try them on my 97 F150 styleside. My next brake job will be full...rotors, calipers and pads. Should I try their slotted and drilled rotors (front disc's only) but should look good behind my 5 spoke billit aluminum rims?
@@christopherroundtree4455 I would go with the regular rotors but get the coated ones. Would look great behind the rims. Also, get the power stop ceramic pads. That combination gives me a smooth ride, no pulsation when I brake and the confidence that I will stop when I need to.
I also use Powerstop. OEM version 17 series pads on my Cherokee and the 23 series HD ones on my expedition. I've had good luck with them. Make sure to go through the break in to bed the pads..
What do you use to remove/clean off the oily coating that I've seen on a few rotors? I'm glad you gave feedback on the best rotors. I've used Brembo, Zimmerman the most followed by Textar based on what was available (best quality for the $) and this was on Volvos. I now own Toyota so it will be interesting to see how long pads and rotors last in comparison.
Good list, though for ease of procurement I might add Napa Ultra Premium rotors. Digging a little deeper, many warpage issues with today’s increasingly heavy vehicles are due to a lack of brake cooling. I solved a longstanding warpage issue with our chipped Audi S4 by modifying the front rotor’s dust shields. I used an angle grinder to make 5 cooling slits in each one. They look like shark gills and are about 5” long. No more warpage problems and without having to add complicated cooling ductwork.
Many years ago I went to put on a new Raybestos brand brake drum. Decided to put it on my Ammco brake lathe and it was .040 warped. If it wouldn’t have been a weekend it would’ve been sent back. Years later had a source on Chinese generic drums and rotors and actually had good success selling them with almost no complaints. We had a family owned auto parts store for over 50 years and had most of the major brands in that time. Unfortunately years ago there wasn’t unbiased comparison videos.
I've been using using different manufacturers here in Europe throughout the years. From cheap to expensive. The most consistent(quality wise) brake discs and pads are TRW. My previous set up was great but dislike the brakes because they needed warming up in order to work well. Discs Brembo Extra pad EBC yellow stuff. Now i got regular Disc Delphi and regular pads ATE, the discs worped 5000km from new, utter rubbish. I would like to tray Ferodo and Pagid
I've always scrolled through lots of argument and comments about warped rotors. The cause that the manufacturers used to help you fix, simply isn't being done anymore, the parts aren't available: hub run out. If the rotor isn't spinning perfect and the caliper is even slightly dragging, it's going to wear unevenly. I hear so many people talk about so many years of this in that, but what they don't talk about is actually fixing the problem. Why does the car produce warped rotors and what can you do to fix it. I measure the run out of a rotor when I install it on the car and install shims to fix it if needed. Done deal no more warping.
I agree on them being very great rotors but the only issue is usually they will be special order at least in my area and when you're doing a brake job that needs done that day or you just pulled the vehicle in and you found that it needs brakes, and the customer approves it you can't have your bay tied up waiting on brakes for days over whenever it would be. So I wish they would be more available at least in my area to not have to go with the less quality Major part supplier rotors. Other than that a great video keep up for good work!
We used a lot of Posiquiets with Centric black label rotors & never had a problem until a couple years ago., their prices went up at the same time their quality went down, The pads have always made dirty rims but they were silent & other than having to burn the oil off the vents & clean oil off the surface they saved the customer a lot. Not anymore. Aki with the suffix for pad shims or factory gm for my customers. Textar or Zim for euro trash cars. Jag & rover only get factory. Textar may make the factory pads but world crack. & ssf don’t sell those there different.
I've used DFC rotors with Akebono euro pads and I have to say, DFC is pretty damn good. Compared to the top companies. Best part is, made in the good old USA. They come geo coated as well.
I like Brembo but as stated the availability can be hit or miss. I ended up going with Bosch pads, rotors, and shoes on my 97 Civic along with Napa drums because I already had them on hand.
thanks for all you help and knowlage ,I saw you braking pads video and now this one ,my question is your videos also apply for hd trucks ? in my case in own a diesel dually thank you
Yes sir I been waiting on this I was always told get high carbon rotors . Can you do video on car with bad rotors while driving far as them shaking when braking ?
The thickness variation start with an out of round issue issue when new .. So if you have 2 thousand warpage , you wont feel it .that 2 th will become 2 th thickness variation , that you will feel as a pulsation . You cannot have any thickness variation on the rotor. I used to use Balo rotors and Pagid pads on MB with no issues . Another issue is that manufacturer dont cast their rotors , they buy the raw casts . So bad raw casts , will warp when hot . Also super clean the hubs .
There are two primary reasons: 1) Uneven wear due to improper mounting of the wheel (torque not to specs) or due to wheel bearing having some play, or due to not cleaning the surface where the rotor meets the wheel. 2) Pad material transfer
Could be from a bent hub. Rotor will wobble on a bent hub and unevenly wear the rotor. Happened to me. Bought that car used... I am not the one who hit the curb.
I saw one of your early videos and I cannot remember what brand of rotor and pad do you recommend for the European vehicles? I believe you said TEXSTAR not 100% and what do you recommend for the Asian vehicles rotor pad thanks for the info and a great video as usual with you..!!?????
In our workshop we have had problem with Brembo disc on Audi and Volvo 320 mm discbrakes. Don´t know if we wear them in to place ,but they like to wobbel alot if you hit a puddle when the disc is hot.
I recently installed Akebono ProAct brake pads with OEM rotors and it said no bedding was necessary so I didn't, and have not had any issues. Been about 3K miles since I installed them
Great videos. Just one question: does it matter if the rotors are solid or have holes? Do the holes help dissipate heat? What’s your opinion? Use them or not?
Just found your channel via the 4runner diagnostics video! What do you think are good manufacturers for calipers on asian/jdm vehicles? I don't really know what to make off all these companies that reman old calipers....
Rotors with black coating = EBC British Brake Corporation. Excellent brake rotors, expensive but excellent, especially in the slotted dimpled configuration. EBC pads are okay, Hawk ceramic pads are better IMO.
Metallurgy company owner here in Europe…… that rotor warping explanation is not actually very accurate as thickness variation itself kinda does create an S like you described….. No material gets deposited back onto the rotor as you described what happens is that the variable metal quality on the rotor causes some spots to wear more than others and that is what becomes the low spots It is also possible to warp rotor like a literal S by differential cooling such as driving through a puddle with very hot brakes or parking the car with the parking brake engaged after driving hard and having hot brakes
I prefer DBA 4000 series rotors. Never an issue towing, cruising or on the track. Brembos are always top notch. Anyone producing aftermarket replacement carbon ceramic rotors yet?
Textar are great rotors. Used them on my BMW as well as Zimmerman. ATE is the OEM manufacturer for BMW. Even my rotors are stamped ATE. I bought rotors from Auto Zone and Advance and they sucked. Warped rotors. Went back to factory for my Nissan.
Just a quick comment: the thickness variation is a secondary problem, resulting from driving for an extended time with the primary problem. What happens is that uneven material transfer (from hot rotors and pads in contact while stationary) causes uneven friction coefficient over the face of the rotor. The spots where the pads have been in contact gets hardened (due to high-temp carbon transfer) and simply more slippery than the rest of the rotor face - this is the cause of the initial vibrations and sounds. This has ZERO measurable impact on the rotor's thickness. However, if you ignore the warning signs and keep driving the softer material between the hardened spots of course gets worn away quicker than the latter and a measurable thickness variation appears, also causing a noticable pulsation in the brake pedal as the pads push the caliper pistons back and forth when they ride over the uneven face of the rotor, Having worked professionally on cars since the 80's, I have seen this literally thousands of times. I have, however, only measured a handful of truly warped rotors and experienced it only once while driving (dragging brakes casing POS rotors to warp when hot, however they were dead straight when cooled down).
Apologies, but pad deposits are not the cause of pulsations. As other have noted, there is such a thing as a warped rotor. I've personally resurfaced probably thousands of rotors although those days are generally over. Resurfacing cuts the actual metal surface of the rotor reducing thickness to the lowest common dimension - resulting in a consistent planed surface. The difference between rotor quality is generally the metal composition used within the construction of rotor. Warping occurs due to the repeated and unevenly heating and cooling of the services based upon driving conditions, pads, and driver.
Here in Germany I use mostly ATE like you mentioned and sometimes Zimmermann, Brembo and maybe Textar. Akebono is not available from my suppliers, so cant tell. For BMW M models only the genuine pads and rotors, you feel the difference, the multi-part rotors are made by BMW itself in their own facility for a reason.
Recently replaced rotors & pads on my 2017 Sub. Impreza using slotted Powerstop rotors. It’s been about 3 months and they’re working like a charm still. I think the brand is definitely impactful, but more than anything it comes down to following proper installation & break-in procedures. It’s the people cutting corners with 30 min brake jobs that get into trouble… don’t bleed the dirty brake fluid, don’t properly break the pad material in… neglect to grease the pins or apply anti-seize in the correct areas (if at all).
In the final counting, you save much more time doing it right the first time. Sure, it’s an investment, but like most aspects of life, an ounce of prevention equates to a pound of cure.
Appreciate the guidance! I will definitely be strongly considering Akebono (sp?) for my next pad replacements!
20-30 years ago, Ford put out a service bulletin to their dealers. Genuine OEM rotors were warping at a high rate due to authorized, certified, highly trained Forx mechanics over-torquing the lug nuts. Using a torque wrench and proper installation of the wheels were all that was needed.
I used to have a smart car and that can be a problem with them as well. It has three lug nuts, and if you over tighten them, it will cause the rotors to warp
I had that happen on my old 2001 F250 diesel. Replaced rotors 2x until I found this out and started re-torquing the lug nuts after anything related to removing the wheels (new tires/rotations). Never had an issue after that.
Interesting as my Ford (Lincoln) calls for 160+ lb-ft of torque. Way more than any other car I have owned.
I have heard this as well, but this contradicts what he says in the video. Improperly torqued lugs would physically warp the rotor not cause uneven pad material like he says. I agree with you.
My shop has none of these available unless I want to ship them in from Worldpac. Raysbestos Element3 coated rotors are what I have used and never had an issue. Throw one on the lathe everyone once and awhile new and never any runout. Typically they come in around .030-.040 thicker than the Napa or O'Rielly cheap rotors which I think helps with warping and also gives me a shot at machining at least if it's needed.
Raybestos element 3 or Wagner e coated is what I use. Usually a great price
Same
I have had good luck with Advics rotors and Akebono pads on my Toyota's. Both are OEM suppliers (Advics is partially owned by Toyota) and made in USA!
i also use advics / aisin
I'm 80 yrs old, lifetime shade tree mechanic, degreed engineer, and I have replaced my brakes every time needed all my life. I used to get rotors turned or resurfaced when they were warped and I watched them being resurfaced. After watching many rotors being resurfaced I disagree that rotors don't warp due to what needed cutting. I owned a 95 Mark VIII Lincoln for 9 years (loved that car) that had undersized front rotors and ONE panic stop would warp them. Yeah, I read the white paper floating around the internet written by a race team member who claimed rotors don't warp. You believe what you want and I will believe what I want to based on my experience.
You’re challenging him but made an anecdotal example. Rotors don’t “warp”, I have yet to see anyone lay a “warped” rotor on a flat surface and show me the rotor not sitting evenly. As he stated it’s uneven pad transfer that builds up on cheap rotors.
I have to agree. Where is this pad material that accumulates? I can prove a brake rotor is warped. Put it on a brake lathe and watch it spin. As you move the bit closer to the rotor, you can literally see that its warped. If I had to guess, there may be some type of miscommunication going on. One of the ways you can warp a brake rotor is by keeping pressure on the brake pedal when you come to a stop. Especially if you've been driving fast and really have them heated up. At higher temperatures, the metal gets softer, and the brake calipers are very strong. Maybe something like that is really going on, and is being mistaken for pad transfer.
@@jmm5346 Like I said in my post, I've watched many warped rotors turning on the lathe and it was obvious that they were warped. But those with no personal experience will believe what someone else writes that rotors don't warp. If it is metal transfer from the pads to the rotor, then if you use ceramic pads you will never have "warped" rotors. Right? BS
It's the hat that warps. It's made from much thinner material then the bracking surface.
I COMPLETELY AGREE that the rotors almost NEVER WARP. Every mechanic that has turned rotors always argues the same point: "I can see and hear the knife on the lathe touch the spot where its "warped" " Its because it is physically thicker from the transfer of pad material. Mark the spot where the knife touches, and then notice it will not be 180 degrees on the other side where it touches. Usually its on the same place on the other side of the rotor. Also, even a super small amount of transfer will cause the pads to grab harder in that spot. hence the horrible shake with bad rotors. Good points about a "warped" rotor not wobbling on a super flat surface. .
Yes ATE is called like A.T.E. here in germany. It stands for Alfred Teves...the founder of the company. It's a big player for brakes here.
ATE is a big brake firm owned by Continental now yep
They make amazing brake systems and brake lunes and Mazda uses ATE brake Calipers in their cars!
With 45 years in the business I have seen many warped rotors. When you put them on the brake lathe and the cutting bits only hit on part of the rotor and on alternating sides the rotors are warped. Also if the rotors are severely warped they will warp again in short order after they are turned. In my personal experiance my wife had a 1989 Plymouth Acclaim with a 2.5 turbo in it. She only had two speeds fast and stopped. In Michigan she would warp the rotors every winter. Running through cold water and slush with a hot rotor would defiantly warp them. I was using genuine Chrysler parts because I worked at the dealer. Finally I got tired of replacing the rotors for the big bucks and bought a set of cheep rotors at AutoZone. She never warped the rotors again!!
@@CrazyCat229 I am a college graduate, I speak 5 languages, and I have no idea what you are trying to sayl
@@attilacsepe4946 No problem, I'll just pull my comment.
This may be for the majority but I can attest to warped rotors not caused by pad transfer. Metal expands and contracts based on temperature and that does cause warping which is why they make two piece designs to help minimize warping. For every paper saying it doesn’t there is at least another one saying it does. I had hoped to watch a video to learn something and not hear someone start off by saying what I experienced when attempting to turn my rotors didn’t happen. When the machine is surfacing one half of the rotor on one side then the opposite half on the other those rotors are warped. I scraped those and bought a new set.
both can be true. thought the same thing.
I agree. I’ve had warped rotors and watched them spin on a lathe were 100% warped not “brake pad transfer” which I don’t believe is even possible lol. How many times has a rotor measured thicker after use? Zero.
I seen that more often now with ceramic pads. I never had problem with metallic pads, now every 6 months have to resurface rotors no matter how i bead the pads. definitely gonna try akebono
Starting using Brembo recently and I’ve been very impressed with quality.
Even more impressed with the low price, but made in China.
@@mcplutt99% of everything is made in china and it works
Good parts are certainly important, but I believe meticulous installation is even more important. I mount each rotor and check for runout with dial caliper, clean the parts thoroughly, torque lug nuts carefully, etc, etc. Then I educate the customer about using the brakes, i.e., don't come hard off a long highway ramp doing 80mph to a stop light and hold the brakes, let the vehicle move a little every few seconds so pad material doesn't stick to hot rotor. Anyway, brakes are like everything else in life, there's more to it than you'd think.
If we eliminated traffic lights near highways we could solve warped rotors. I'll cast my vote for more traffic circles.
I live in the rust belt area and I started using fully coated rotors. They are the best for this Chicago winter's salty environment.
Z model of power stops and stop tech cryo ....I think I had a brembo UV coating never rust.
Always buy zinc coated rotors
I have geomet coated rotors. 3 winters with salt/brine and not a sign of rust at all.
I have a 2000 4Runner that I put Brembo rotors and OEM pads on. I’ve got well over 100k on this combo. I’m super happy with this combo.
I’ve had really good and consistent experience with PowerStop rotors & Akebono pads combination
THANKS for the awesome videos .... I am VERY interested in your thoughts on Power Stop Evolution Drilled & Slotted Rotors
It is the only rotor that stopped the actual warpage on my 2016 Acadia Denali ... Grant it I did NOT try the brands that you showed on this video. I am an old time racer and a machinist and probably beat the car up a bit but since I changed to these rotors and metallic pads, the car stops on a dime and has smooth consistant braking. Penny for your thoughts.
Akebono pads and Bosch rotors have worked well for me.
I would agree on both counts. The only time I don't use Akebono is when they don't make pads for an application. I also like the Bosch quietcast rotors when I can't find AC Delco coated rotors.
Akebono Pads and Bosch Rotors are my go to for our 3 Hondas.
Parts stores are plagued with junk parts these days... Glad you produced this video on some real winners!
Raybestos Police rotors on the front of my 15 explorer XLT with Wagner coated on the rears and Akebono pads all around. Extremely smooth braking and never a single sound has been heard so far
Ive done both aggressive break in and the softer break in the rotors and pads. I find the softer break in procedure to be better to brake performance. It does take a lot long but i like it better. I can brake down to the point of where you can feel if you've actually stopped or not. Basically i can stop pretty smooth. Without that whiplash at the end. Just have to be good with the foot work.
Agreed about the footwork. Passengers (including friends who let me drive their cars) have consistently been impressed with the finesse. Like I’ll drive their stick shift and they’ll ask me how the hell the shifts are so smooth, even I can’t get it like that and it’s been my daily for years. I tell em it’s all in feathering that clutch and gas just right. Same with braking… when you’re getting close to stopping you gotta back off a bit and finesse it until you stop without feeling like you’re getting pushed forward. They’re always like how? This is witchcraft! It’s all in the foot work, like you said.
Ford had a TSB out in the early to mid 90’s about wrapped rotors. It was especially problematic on the Taurus and Probes. The cause was lateral runout (warping) caused by improper wheel nut torquing.
It was obviously the cause, because you could watch the comebacks based on who did and didn’t torque their wheels
All of that said, I think your videos are well done and provide great information and insight. The discussion are also informative.
Thanks for taking the time and effort to make them.
Woukd love to see more content like this! What company do yall run with for seals, suspension, and gaskets?
Surprisingly I’ve had bad luck with Textar this year. 3 come backs with textar 0 with any other car and brand we use. One of them we got everything replaced under warranty (pads and rotors) and still had the same problem till we swapped them again to aki’s
Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom and sincere knowledge. You do an excellent job in throughly breaking the information down. God bless your business and staff!!!!
What you're talking about is what I know as hot-spotting. There used to be an excellent technical article online about it, haven't been able to find it lately. It's not that it affects the thickness of the rotors, its that the burned-on deposits affect friction, resulting in the pulsing you initially feel. However the difference in friction then results in uneven heating of the rotor, and that can then lead to actual warping. So pads that don't result in hot-spotting will save your rotors, and some pads can actually remove material from previously hot-spotted rotors.
In the motorcycle world Joe Minton of 1980's Motorcyclist magazine would recommend Ferodo pads on that basis. Sure enough I started using Ferodo pads and never had brake pulsations after that - and on some bikes where I bought used, if I swapped to those pads any minor pulsation would go away.
I used brembo UV coated rotors with akebono pads on my daughter's car. I was very happy with them. I tried the power stop kit on my car... also no issues so far.
VNE often makes the OEM Audi/VW rotors. Made in Germany. Very high quality. Great info you consistently give thanks.
I run Raybestos Element 3 Rotors + Akebono ProACT pads.
That's the exact combination I just bought, putting them on tomorrow. I know the Akebonos are good, but have never bought those rotors. It's one of the most well-known companies, and the price was right so I went with them. Hoping they're good.
"These are, I believe, made in Germany"
Camera pans to stickers showing Made in China
Hahahaha!!!
Exactly
Brembo also made in China. But Zimmerman are made in Germany.
Good eye. Sherwood is smart and its easy to think they are made in Deutschland.
I've been disappointed that more and more manufacturers have been going to China to produce their products. That said, I've had pretty good luck with ATE, Zimmerman, and Textar brake products - some are made in Germany, some are made somewhere in the EU, and some are made (unfortunately) in China. I think the QC is still better on these brands, even if they might be made in China...vs some lesser brands (auto parts store in-house brands).
140K!!! Way to go Royalty! Keep at it… please! 🙏
Awesome!! Thanks for the video and the great info you provide on quality work!! This type of content as well as how to do things the right way like the brake pad video is great content in my opinion and what I look forward to the most!! Keep it up and thanks again!
I've been using brembo rotors on the front of my Mustang track car and I can usually get two seasons out of them. The rear gets motorcraft and they hold up just as well.
The shop I work for (commercial leasing) replaces rotors and drums every brake job. For the past 40 years I have always replaced my own rotors every pad change because of my experiences having rotors turned after new pads and they have issues after a few hard braking events. Once a rotor goes bad it can never be saved, Its the part of the casting that can not be turned that hides the issue and turning is a temporary solution.
Solid list, i’d give a shout out to centric if you are on a budget as far as i know they are powerstop’s rotors without a coating
I had no Idea that Akebono made rotors. A few years back I emailed the company for recommendations for rotors and they didn’t have any. Maybe only professional shops can get them? At least now I know Brembo has your approval! 😊
I have a 2013 Mercedes C300 with 181,000. I’ve only had to perform one brake job. A testament to the quality of the factory Mercedes parts. I replaced the brakes at 65,000 miles with Zimmermann rotors and MB pads.
I used power stop rotors and pads, on toyota sienna and so far 1.5 years, and no issues at all.
I've had good luck using Wagner brake pads and rotors🙂
The black rotors that come from autozone, they give you an insane vibration and crazy noises and feeling the first few times you hit the brakes until that black wears off. I can imagine if someone doesn’t know any better they would assume something went wrong when they first hit the brakes lol
I got the Grey coated ones premium from autozone and have been great for 3 years
Warped rotors are a thing. I can promise you that. If you've ever turned a rotor and it has skipped sections of the rotor no matter how big or small, it's warped. Its even more obvious if you measure it and it's pretty consistent all around but still has skipped sections on a rough cut. I just don't understand why people are saying it isn't a thing.
@@CD-bm6rc Warping due to heat most certainly is a thing! Abusing rotors can actually glow orange, they're most likely warped at this point and probably ruined (I wouldn't trust them). I had some rotors on my car that were spider-web cracked due to abuse, luckily they didn't fall apart.
I had a Chevy truck. With undersized rotors. They always warped. You could put a dual caliper and see it. I don't really care why. You have to replace them regardless.
Just changed all 4 corners of my VW to Akebono and Bosch quietcast coated rotors. Bosch has a very solid coating, my Centrics and Raybestos both stated rusting too quickly. Made in China now can mean higher quality because margins are better, so you invest in product quality.
DTV. Diametral Thickness Variation. Caused by initial runout of the rotor and long distance without brake applies. The runout causes uneven wear on the rotor. 40 years as a brake systems and components engineer with over 20 years of product validation testing. I write the procedures, run the logistics, build the cars, drive the tests, analyze the data, write the reports and interface with the customer(s).
This mechanical engineer loves your input. I never pondered about that going on. Did you find long braking to also induce some variation in TIR?
May I ask how "long distance without brake applies" causes runout or uneven wear on a rotor? Are you saying long distance road trips on the interstate without applying the brakes causes brake issues or am I missing something? I am just curious or looking for an explanation for my own knowledge.
@Balticblue93 yes. One of the ways. Also rotors installed with too much runout. Toyota spec is 50 microns max.
The need to bed in pads and rotors depends on what you buy. I have a big brake kit stock on my infiniti. Replaced pads with akebono ACT. The instructions specifically said that no bedding was necessary. Just avoid hard stops where possible for the first 500 miles. This was on centric rotors rather than brembo. I've done many brake jobs so was skeptical. I've done them twice since purchasing the car 12 years ago. No "warping" until later in life of the pads.
Great video. Thanks. What about Ferodo pads and Rotors. They seem to be up there with Zimmerman and Textar. Looking to replace pads and rotors on our 2012 Mazda 6.
the new Orielly select pro rotors work very well, they have the silver coating and do not rust for more than a year, and I am in Ohio, I see the first ones I did with them and 2 years later the brakes still look and perform like new
Im glad we can buy Canadian made affordable rotors that are as good as any oem style replacement.
Always go for the high carbon, zinc coated
Giro Disc, for performance cars. I replaced my truck rotors with Power S. that were crap. Bought the Police rotors and they have been great
I like TRW, which is very similar to ATE. My BMW has ATE at the front and TRW at the back from the factory. And TRW quite easy to get in Australia. Very difficult to get Akebono in Australia
Love your videos, I have a 2020 Toyota sequoia SR5 that I use for work and carry about 1500 to 1700lbs of weight constant. I love your recommendation video on Akebono brakes pads. With that much weight is it better for me to get drilled and slotted rotors for the heat and weight?
I like and install several Chinese rotor ,dura, centric , medium grade brake pads with no issues,i always perform a break in toad test,no hi speed stop ,thank you rock auto all the parts your car will ever need
your car is DEATH PROOF!
Centric makes good brake parts, too.
Yes, I've had very good luck with Centric rotors...20 years and 70k miles on front of my F150! Not a single issue, except edge rust.
I've been using Power stop fully coated on most of my brake jobs with thier 17 sieries pads for everyday drivers , quiet nice feel always take a 15 mile brake in drive when done. Did texrars pads rotors on a few older inports too but always see made in China still way better then any white box junk out there
I use Powerstop on my cars and always got great results with my brakes. The coated ones are great and not too espensive!
Yup, Power Stop is my go-to. Using their carbon ceramic pads for the first time, good stuff. Fully coated is worth the beans in rust belt or not. They just look better for longer.
Thanks to you I've now satisfied my curiosity about Power STOP. I've been wondering if I should try them on my 97 F150 styleside. My next brake job will be full...rotors, calipers and pads. Should I try their slotted and drilled rotors (front disc's only) but should look good behind my 5 spoke billit aluminum rims?
@@christopherroundtree4455 I would go with the regular rotors but get the coated ones. Would look great behind the rims. Also, get the power stop ceramic pads. That combination gives me a smooth ride, no pulsation when I brake and the confidence that I will stop when I need to.
I also use Powerstop. OEM version 17 series pads on my Cherokee and the 23 series HD ones on my expedition. I've had good luck with them. Make sure to go through the break in to bed the pads..
What do you use to remove/clean off the oily coating that I've seen on a few rotors? I'm glad you gave feedback on the best rotors. I've used Brembo, Zimmerman the most followed by Textar based on what was available (best quality for the $) and this was on Volvos. I now own Toyota so it will be interesting to see how long pads and rotors last in comparison.
Good list, though for ease of procurement I might add Napa Ultra Premium rotors.
Digging a little deeper, many warpage issues with today’s increasingly heavy vehicles are due to a lack of brake cooling. I solved a longstanding warpage issue with our chipped Audi S4 by modifying the front rotor’s dust shields. I used an angle grinder to make 5 cooling slits in each one. They look like shark gills and are about 5” long. No more warpage problems and without having to add complicated cooling ductwork.
Thanks for the recommendations! 🎉
Many years ago I went to put on a new Raybestos brand brake drum. Decided to put it on my Ammco brake lathe and it was .040 warped. If it wouldn’t have been a weekend it would’ve been sent back. Years later had a source on Chinese generic drums and rotors and actually had good success selling them with almost no complaints. We had a family owned auto parts store for over 50 years and had most of the major brands in that time. Unfortunately years ago there wasn’t unbiased comparison videos.
Raybestos Element 3 rotors & pads are my current go to.
I've been using using different manufacturers here in Europe throughout the years. From cheap to expensive. The most consistent(quality wise) brake discs and pads are TRW. My previous set up was great but dislike the brakes because they needed warming up in order to work well. Discs Brembo Extra pad EBC yellow stuff. Now i got regular Disc Delphi and regular pads ATE, the discs worped 5000km from new, utter rubbish. I would like to tray Ferodo and Pagid
I've always scrolled through lots of argument and comments about warped rotors. The cause that the manufacturers used to help you fix, simply isn't being done anymore, the parts aren't available: hub run out. If the rotor isn't spinning perfect and the caliper is even slightly dragging, it's going to wear unevenly.
I hear so many people talk about so many years of this in that, but what they don't talk about is actually fixing the problem. Why does the car produce warped rotors and what can you do to fix it.
I measure the run out of a rotor when I install it on the car and install shims to fix it if needed. Done deal no more warping.
I agree on them being very great rotors but the only issue is usually they will be special order at least in my area and when you're doing a brake job that needs done that day or you just pulled the vehicle in and you found that it needs brakes, and the customer approves it you can't have your bay tied up waiting on brakes for days over whenever it would be. So I wish they would be more available at least in my area to not have to go with the less quality Major part supplier rotors. Other than that a great video keep up for good work!
We used a lot of Posiquiets with Centric black label rotors & never had a problem until a couple years ago., their prices went up at the same time their quality went down, The pads have always made dirty rims but they were silent & other than having to burn the oil off the vents & clean oil off the surface they saved the customer a lot. Not anymore. Aki with the suffix for pad shims or factory gm for my customers. Textar or Zim for euro trash cars. Jag & rover only get factory. Textar may make the factory pads but world crack. & ssf don’t sell those there different.
I've used DFC rotors with Akebono euro pads and I have to say, DFC is pretty damn good. Compared to the top companies. Best part is, made in the good old USA. They come geo coated as well.
I like Brembo but as stated the availability can be hit or miss. I ended up going with Bosch pads, rotors, and shoes on my 97 Civic along with Napa drums because I already had them on hand.
thanks for all you help and knowlage ,I saw you braking pads video and now this one ,my question is your videos also apply for hd trucks ? in my case in own a diesel dually thank you
Yes sir I been waiting on this I was always told get high carbon rotors . Can you do video on car with bad rotors while driving far as them shaking when braking ?
I’ve had once EBC rotors that were black coated.
What are your thoughts on oem rotors ? Thank you!
The thickness variation start with an out of round issue issue when new .. So if you have 2 thousand warpage , you wont feel it .that 2 th will become 2 th thickness variation , that you will feel as a pulsation . You cannot have any thickness variation on the rotor. I used to use Balo rotors and Pagid pads on MB with no issues . Another issue is that manufacturer dont cast their rotors , they buy the raw casts . So bad raw casts , will warp when hot . Also super clean the hubs .
I have machined hundreds of rotors in my career and i can promise you it wasn't from pad transfer.
There are two primary reasons: 1) Uneven wear due to improper mounting of the wheel (torque not to specs) or due to wheel bearing having some play, or due to not cleaning the surface where the rotor meets the wheel. 2) Pad material transfer
Me too, and I can promise you they were all from pad transfer.
Could be from a bent hub. Rotor will wobble on a bent hub and unevenly wear the rotor. Happened to me. Bought that car used... I am not the one who hit the curb.
I saw one of your early videos and I cannot remember what brand of rotor and pad do you recommend for the European vehicles? I believe you said TEXSTAR not 100% and what do you recommend for the Asian vehicles rotor pad thanks for the info and a great video as usual with you..!!?????
Power stop is very good never had a issue
In our workshop we have had problem with Brembo disc on Audi and Volvo 320 mm discbrakes. Don´t know if we wear them in to place ,but they like to wobbel alot if you hit a puddle when the disc is hot.
What should I use for a 2013 Camaro LT2?
Ty
Thank you!!!! You are the Best !
I recently installed Akebono ProAct brake pads with OEM rotors and it said no bedding was necessary so I didn't, and have not had any issues. Been about 3K miles since I installed them
Ill stick to my carquest rotors with akebono pads. Thank god my acura is fine with it 😂
Great videos. Just one question: does it matter if the rotors are solid or have holes? Do the holes help dissipate heat? What’s your opinion? Use them or not?
For normal driving, vented and/or grooved discs do absolutely nothing.
Just found your channel via the 4runner diagnostics video! What do you think are good manufacturers for calipers on asian/jdm vehicles? I don't really know what to make off all these companies that reman old calipers....
Where do you buy the akebono brake rotors, I can not find anywhere?
TRW rotors , any advice or how are they ?
Lets go!!!! Ive been holding off on buying some until this video. U guys rock!
Same, thank for the follow!!
What is your opinion of OEM rotors?
Rotors with black coating = EBC British Brake Corporation. Excellent brake rotors, expensive but excellent, especially in the slotted dimpled configuration. EBC pads are okay, Hawk ceramic pads are better IMO.
Metallurgy company owner here in Europe…… that rotor warping explanation is not actually very accurate as thickness variation itself kinda does create an S like you described…..
No material gets deposited back onto the rotor as you described what happens is that the variable metal quality on the rotor causes some spots to wear more than others and that is what becomes the low spots
It is also possible to warp rotor like a literal S by differential cooling such as driving through a puddle with very hot brakes or parking the car with the parking brake engaged after driving hard and having hot brakes
What about the Power Stop, brand?
I try to buy the High Carbon version
Lots of good brand manufactures out there
Yes thank you for this video awesome
What about bosch quiet ones?
I have power stop they are good
How about Detroit Axle?
I prefer DBA 4000 series rotors. Never an issue towing, cruising or on the track.
Brembos are always top notch.
Anyone producing aftermarket replacement carbon ceramic rotors yet?
I use ATE or TRW for my Toyota, best i can find in central Europe not that expensive and high quality for normal driving.
I recently chose Brembo rotors and pads for my X5. However they were made in China. But they work fine....
When did bed in brakes start? Do most mechanics do that?
Textar are great rotors. Used them on my BMW as well as Zimmerman. ATE is the OEM manufacturer for BMW. Even my rotors are stamped ATE. I bought rotors from Auto Zone and Advance and they sucked. Warped rotors. Went back to factory for my Nissan.
Just a quick comment: the thickness variation is a secondary problem, resulting from driving for an extended time with the primary problem.
What happens is that uneven material transfer (from hot rotors and pads in contact while stationary) causes uneven friction coefficient over the face of the rotor. The spots where the pads have been in contact gets hardened (due to high-temp carbon transfer) and simply more slippery than the rest of the rotor face - this is the cause of the initial vibrations and sounds.
This has ZERO measurable impact on the rotor's thickness.
However, if you ignore the warning signs and keep driving the softer material between the hardened spots of course gets worn away quicker than the latter and a measurable thickness variation appears, also causing a noticable pulsation in the brake pedal as the pads push the caliper pistons back and forth when they ride over the uneven face of the rotor,
Having worked professionally on cars since the 80's, I have seen this literally thousands of times. I have, however, only measured a handful of truly warped rotors and experienced it only once while driving (dragging brakes casing POS rotors to warp when hot, however they were dead straight when cooled down).
Apologies, but pad deposits are not the cause of pulsations. As other have noted, there is such a thing as a warped rotor. I've personally resurfaced probably thousands of rotors although those days are generally over. Resurfacing cuts the actual metal surface of the rotor reducing thickness to the lowest common dimension - resulting in a consistent planed surface. The difference between rotor quality is generally the metal composition used within the construction of rotor. Warping occurs due to the repeated and unevenly heating and cooling of the services based upon driving conditions, pads, and driver.
I remember when Wagner was the top dog back in the day
2:39 FYI those Textar's are Made in China. Pause the video and you can see right on em. Not necessarily bad but no where near German quality.