Your example of % applies to defense, too. The flaw with your point is defense has to be stacked with HP and / or shield to work because it makes the hits do less damage, but if you don't invest in hit points then defense is wasted anyway. If defense sponges a hit from 2k to 200, but you only have 1k health, you will still die in 5 hits. Put 10k health with the defense, and then you are tankier than your first example. Your shield and health showcase a way to get tankier while saving modules for something else possibly.
@@JJ-gu9yy but buddy that’s exactly the point I’m making. In order for defense to be good you have to invest into hp and shields. WHY do that when you can just give yourself an extra 200-500% more health. Like use common sense. Fully selling out to max hp and shields and making those base values as high as we possibly can so these + 341 and 540 boosts to shields and hp give us even higher numbers will always net you more than defense would. The proof is in the pudding. Ontop of the fact that the orbs are off a percentage so even if you had 20k hp. One orb can heal you a large % of that and that one orb could negate 30s of damage you took. Who cares about defense when you still take damage and the tick rate on damage is high. Meaning when bosses hit you for 195 or 75 or 45. They do it multiple times in a row like a machine gun. That’s exactly why I showed the video how I did to get people to understand. The investment on defense compared to hp and shields is just always going to be weaker compared to building base values of hp and shields and then boosting them by a large percentage
You are 100% correct just with Enzo health is something that you shouldn't be worried about, but DEF is more important than the shields because that is going to lower the damage you take per hit. DEF is going to slow down after 50k because that's how the game was designed.
@z00ko Wrong you don't need to invest into all three, it's 2 plus resistances if you want to maximize dr, you'd want shields to function like hp and increase def and shields or do def and hp, yeah you can go all hp but multiple c slots isn't great for everyone's build. You're just being illogical, the game is diverse enough to where you can't simplify it down to a single thought process.
If you guys think defense is useless because you watched this, keep in mind it’s an extremely flawed display. He had basically no HP when he was showcasing 100k defense. Imagine an enemy hits for 800 damage, you reduce it’s damage to 200 but you only have 400 health lol.. looks really awful though Neil you realize after 35-40k defense there’s severe diminishing returns. So say you run 35k defense and you have a reasonable 15k health. Now that 800 damage attack hits for maybe 500 (instead of the original 200 with 100k defense) except now you have 15k health instead of 400 health lol.. allowing you to take ~20-30 hits instead of the two he took with 100k defense and 400 hp. Don’t be fooled for views. Still run high up and as much defense as you can without sacrificing too much to the damage ratio. Shields ONLY work on Enzo because he can chain regenerate them, which costs MP and prevents him from having max uptime on his huge crit buff/lmg crap anyways, so it’s time wasted instead of dpsing
Honestly me having both a defensive build and a full health build I’d agree with the no defense health it’s better to me if you haven’t tried it this critiquing it and also listening to you makes no sense
I’ll say this, you were on to it. The issue is you need to look into what exactly your character scales the most with. Enzo scales with and has higher shield values. (look at it as their own personal modifier) This is why Enzo specifically is good with shields. So it’s not a one fits all approach.
Defense isn't useless, and shields are useless to gley so it's a matter of descendant to build. But you have a good point in shield building for more mods space to input, but still you need to invest on shield regeneration unlike health that can be healed by other descendant and orbs to pick up to have full hp in an instant vs waiting to regen
As a bunny i have to disagree a bit, defense has drastic eimishing returns past around 40k, but that 40k reduces damage by about 30-40%. I run about 45k defense/10k hp/ almost 0 shield and am never downed. Often when others go down and i revive them enemies can only take a quarter of my hp off while im reviving others. You need to have a good mix of both def and hp.
You dont seem to understand how defence works, or that it doesnt usually apply to shields so using HP+DEF is actually more EHP than HP+Shields will ever give you. Effective Health (EHP) is the amount of health that the player effectively has when considering both Health and Defense in union. Also, due to how defense actually works, most games put a limit or severe diminishing returns the higher you go, in TFD severe diminishing returns is after 50k, so being between 35k-50k is good. Example, 1000 defense gives 10% damage reduction and 2000 defense will give 18% damage reduction and 4000 defense will give 28% damage reduction.
Stop spreading misinformation. Defense does affect the damage that your shield takes. It's even super simple to test. Go to an easy zone, get hit by an enemy and remember how much damage it does. Then take off all sources of defense and get hit again by the same enemy. The damage you take will be higher with less defense.
@@benjamingardner5277 Please read properly before you slander "doesnt USUALLY apply to shields", it was not a definitive statement unlike this clickbait video.
You are applying WOW math and concepts , such as also remembering this method is for killing bosses that take 15 mins to kill and every character is programmed to have the same ratio, cant have one DPS needing more healing than other DPS Decedent is more like Diablo , Which is more about hit/recover ratios and that every character is programmed to have a different ratio like in Diablo, So in diablo you can carry a glass cannon with no health/shields/defence through the game just to one shot the boss its a ARPG not a MMO
Ive never seen anyone really talk about why you should run hp, defense or shields over one or the other. which is why im glad I found this video. Definitely gonna switch out my defense modules for some shields, thanks man :)
1 shield = 1 hp. If that is true; More hp you have, more health orb regens you (should be % base iirc). For shield, you cannot regen during battle unless enzo (broken on enzo). For health, you can regen it during battle via adds/mob removal. You gotta sit out of battle to regen shield (dps loss, unless enzo) but you can keep higher dps uptime with hp with orbs you pick up along the way. If you are losing hp quicker than regen via orbs. It's either lacking in defense or skill issue (positioning and mechanic). But this video tells u defence is bad? Well stand alone yes, but defence give what we call effective hp, it does more the more hp you have. If your current 50k def say... mitigate 40% dmg, compared to base def with 10% mitigate(an example). You have 30% more hp than what it's shown. In the vid, he has shown you stand alone defence build, but due to lack of hp or shield, it do not translate well into survivability. If you slow play the video when he takes dmg during pure hp build and pure defence build.... you can see how much less dmg he take roughly. And calculate how much effective hp 100k defence generally is.
@kaitee1789 Where in my comment did I say defense is bad? All I said was I'm gonna switch out my pure defense modules for shields and here you are essaying for the sake of it. Well I hope you had fun typing that out.
@@Oogwayne u mentioned no one talked about it. U mentioned swapping out. I didn't mention you saying defence is bad, the video did. I am telling you defence isn't that bad and shields are horrible on non enzo. I mostly copy paste from my other comment anyways. Z00ko does nice content, just felt that he did defence dirty here without proper testing. But you do you, I solo most bosses anyways, your survivability has nothing to do with me.
1. Shields are useless. 2. You dont need any more than 30k defense. 3. HP is the most important defensive stat. 4. Get HP on all 4 of your external components. Follow this and you'll die a lot less.
Its like im running my gley with no defense mods at all on hard mode bosses, she only has her base defense. And i see people around me dying in hard mode intercepts all the time but i rarely if ever die because of my massive HP pool and Gley can also regen health easily in intercepts since she can syphon health from those pillars that are everywhere. Meanwhile on some of my other characters i have around 40k def and they still struggle to keep alive. DEF doesn't really do much if you have ways to regen other resources easily, but if you don't then it can certainly help
In order for defense to work properly you must equip HP. Just like Enzo's shield regeneration ability, defense scales off of the amount of hit points that you have. It's a damage reduction modifier, a percentage of damage per percentage of health.
1:22 "if you wanna make a million dollars, normally shields recover like lets say 1$ an hour, well he's saying well I'll give you 25% a dollar" That's the weirdest way anyone ever said "he gives you 25% shield"
@@DeadByFleshLight you gotta make it simple for people of all age types and learning types. I am a trainer irl so if someone isn’t catching on you have to find ways to make it click
Cant even begin to tell yall how many vids ive seen saying “ignore def” or “ignore shields”. Def actually HELPS shields with dmg mitigation. Def feeds into shields as well. So many people say contradicting statements when in fact it all works together. Some characters just benefit more off certain stats than others. It all works. Just build however you want, truthfully. Not everyone just sits there and tanks boss hits, thats just a dumb way to play.
i think the math checks out. Scenario 1: 10k hp and 10k def assuming 10k def provides 10% damage reduction hit = 1000 damage damage taken after reduction= 900 damage 10k / 900 = 11.11 hits before death Scenario 2: 20k hp and 0 def assuming 0 def provides 0% damage reduction hit = 1000 damage damage taken after reduction= 1000 damage 20k / 1000 = 20 hits before death Seems like pure investment into HP is more worthwhile. can tank more hits. can someone double check my math please? If this is true, there are 2 benefits. 1-stacking HP is easier due to % increase and 2-mod slots for def can be taken out to save mod capacity.
Did an experiment on ultimate bunny with hp modules only. Stats: 15705.24k hp 1107 def 345.44 max shield Modules placed: Increased hp Hp amplification Tested with Devourer (Hard) Auto damage: 78-90+ ticks Poison: 190/tick, 219 with boss autos Heavy hit: 389
@@randomgreyalien4835 yes because for some reason it makes her more squishy when hp and def mods are combined. Currently running the same mods with no problem with bosses or solo missions.
investing heavily into survivability will cause your DPS to suffer and in quite a few cases it can cause you to fail content like Colossi. My Bunny has around 10k HP, 10k DEF, under 1k shields, 2-3k Elemental Resistance and I can survive taking quite the amount of damage, can't tank like a tank but enough to easily survive in end game content. And all I have is a single HP module slotted in. personally I like to have 3 HP, 1 DEF components with high main stat secondaries, then depending on the enemies element type and what I have, I'll switch out a component for one with a higher element resistance if needed. highest component elemental resistance I've seen is 3800 which is more than enough as you don't need to hit crazy numbers to reach a "good" DMG reduction like with DEF.
I did what you said, and my health/DEF is better. The reason that the DEF is so bad at higher is because the game caps the scaling with health and shields at 60k and 50k is a better safe area for more health and shields to use that DEF. Shields is only good on Enzo you could just get tapped by any add and you will stop regen because you were hit. There are way better health mods like hp collector if you kill a add in a boss fight every 2 seconds you get 9% hp, the best thing to do for Enzo is shields and DEF like 60%/40% Ajax you want a 33.3%/33.3%/33.3% split because that is what he is for.
This video is wrong, how u run high defense with low hp how is that suppose to work. Defense mitigates damage based on the amount of hp you have. What is it mitigating if you just have 800 hp? You gonna get a lot of people killed out here with this video. And defense is not a big investment shield is, bro you had to use 3 mods to get your shield that high meanwhile one max increase defense mod and a couple of def on components and you get 33k defense. Those wasted mod slots on shield can be used for better mods to help you descendant do more damage.
Goated guide, as an Ajax player having infinite hp is the way to go. Also transferring shield to even more hp with transcendent mod. Although the skills do scale from defense you don’t need a ton of investment to have a lot for Ajax.
I started a new Sharon with 47 points max blue HP and "An amazing investment" and some HP heal 8%. No shield and no defense and running around picking up Valbys dead to the flying curling orbs.
One thing i thought could maybe be the case: Void Bosses JUST do the elemental damage Type so defense does nothing against them but normal enemies do physical Damage Not tested it myself but it maybe could be that way
I've tried running antibody and the immunity mods, and other than the immunity mods negating tick damage, elemental resist mods are trash. Best thing is the immunity mods to stop tick damage, otherwise building resistance is a waste of capacity. I also just leave the immunity mods at base capacity, I don't level them up at all. Note: the negating tick damage is arguably really good, don't get me wrong, but resistance itself is not good at all.
Yeah, insanely bad logic. DEF is good if you can fit it with Shield or HP. Also there is huge diminishing returns after 45k DEF, I usually aim for 10-25k DEF with som HP and maybe an Immunity mod.
Now thats a lot of defense lmao! But! It drops off strongly after like 40k defense.. and it is affected after your health.. so having both should be better..
As a gley player I stopped stacking up for def and go all hp. With as low def as 10k I can still tank all attacks and stand inside dead brides blizzard dome like it is nothing.
Can you make a video of other characters? Because I feel like there’s a lot of outliers that makes other characters rely on defensive stats. Like for instance, does status resistance even matter then? If there was a build for gley would you build for only health? And cut out defense and shields since she has none?
So I watched a video from Ryechew about this, and from what he gathered, early on, defense is good, because void intercepts do more physical than elemental, when you reach hard mode, theres less non-elemental type attack so it actually gets used less frequently, the void intercept bosses in normal are roughly 66-75% Non-elemental and the rest elemental atk, in hard mode it becomes a minimum of roughly 45%? elemental attack and the rest non-elemental, keep in mind i said minimum, the % of elemental attack goes up the higher boss is in the group. He said he runs defense substat on his memory because when you run defense nowhere else it ends up being a huge difference and that all makes sense to me.
As an example, Normal Swampwalker has 335 Firearm Attack and 130 Toxic attack Thats 70% Firearm and 30% Elemental. Hard Swampwalker has 353 Firearm Attack and 382 Toxic Attack. Thats 48% Firearm 52% Elemental. Not to mention the amount of elemental damage essentially tripled from normal to hard. So the value being reduced by the defense basically hasn't changed however the elemental attack amount not affected by it tripled.
And all these UA-camrs talking about being 40k DEF. Like for instant, I run Gley and we all know to invest in HP. I wanted to invest more into what Gley was built around. Not just HP but HP recovery. I use HP collector mob, along with components with “HP recovery in combat”. I haven’t really tested it but I strongly believe it boosts the effects of everything that recovers HP period.. This video was needed, maybe even more deeper analysis into all this. This video makes me want to create way better builds now. My Gley is damn near immortal, even when running a 4 man team. Which enemies and bosses are buffed to balance out the battle. Build your character based around what they specialize in. This should be simple fundamentals but a major over look in TFD community. 👍🏾🙂↕️
Defense is just a damage mitigator. With that being said not ever character has the ability to regenerate shields on the fly at will. So there was a bad interpretation there. To make a long answer short, defense shouldn’t be the end all be all on your build. It’s good to have but shouldn’t be priority. High health, high shields, or a mix of all 3 (def, shield, health) is the best way to go. Health or shields first, then you can spec into everything else. My Ajax has 85k Def 23k shields and 29k health and I don’t die…even if I try 😂 Keep up the grind my brutha 💯
ok, now try 20-30k def and the rest health. on most char that will likely be the best. enzo with his shield ability might be unique, but in general, from what i've seen from this kind of testing, there is an ideal combo of def and health.
@robmurray5453 I agree with your comment as any character with a couple mods and the right external components can have 12 - 15k health and 25 - 30k def. (Minimal investment) But I do agree that you need to look at your characters kit and tailor the balance accordingly. However, except for Enzo shields (Maybe Sharen) are not that great from my experience, so far. I usually do not go out of my way to invest in shields.
There's no point in adding defense above 40,000 because defense has diminishing returns. Shields and health do not have diminishing returns, they're just a percent of your base. Get the health or shields first and then add 20K to 40K defense. If you ignore health and defense for shields, then you can be locked in a death loop because you do not rez with any shields and may not have time to cast any shield regeneration. The external equipment forces everyone to play a balanced build because there are only so many sub stat roll options that prevent cheesing. Defense without health or shields isn't defending anything because there is nothing there to defend. Emphasizing one or the other on particular characters may save one module slot for something else.
Shields only work on a select few descendants like the tanks and Enzo. Hp and def do the trick on everyone else. The reason your def showcase shattered is because you had little to no hp to work off.
@@gamermike24 that’s exactly why I say don’t run it. Whenever something needs you to invest in one thing to make one thing somewhat good. You’re now needing more modules to make something mid good. Instead sell out to one stat that gives you a straight jt up immediate return and you can actively have built in game mechanics help you.
Defense mitigates incoming damage, it only works if you work with the descendant strong attribute, be it shields or hp. You are correct in saying you work with the descendants base stats but you missed the mark completely in your conclusion. The base stats tell you which to prioritize out of the three. For most characters besides Enzo that is. Hp and defense because Enzo can regen shield. For Bunny or Sharen however, once their shield is gone they are cooked unless they have defense and resistance to mitigate the incoming dmg. Check out Ryechews games vids he and a bunch of math nerds crunch the actaeon numbers.
Shoulda tested def and hp stacked against pure hp and def shield stack against pure shield. Time the difference. Idk if there is a place with consistent dmg. This would allow us to understand better how much def brings to the table imo. Def imo, give EHP, effective hp, and that is based off how much hp or shield you have, and having non of the counterpart is well... counterproductive. I do see your point in def being a weaker stats, since it requires another stats to conpliment it. Shield is good with enzo for sure. Saw your enzo build vid last time and i liked the idea. Mp is can be an issue imo, still fixing him up so idk. HP is superior to shield generally (dps wise, if you purely built shield vs hp). Shield regenerate too slowly or none at all during combat. If you are dying, you need to get out of combat to regen shield (AKA dps loss). Having more hp means tanking more (1:1 to shield it seems). But orb heals for more (% base right...?) and can be done during battle with boss. Argument can be made that you take more dmg than you can pick up to heal. And my argument is that you got skill issue lol. For hp and shield, ig just build it according to what your playstyle is or w.e u comfortable with. Def was not tested too well here imo, but def a weaker stats.
You hit diminishing returns on DEF at around 40K. Of course your DEF demonstration looks terrible when you've got no HP. Even an Ajax with 100K Def and no HP is gonna get melted. I run 40K DEF and throw everything else into HP. I have like 200 Shields. Elemental resists play a huge part too. Shields are useless. When someone picks you up you get full HP and no Shield and the HP candy is everywhere. Spent $0 on this game, I'm at Hard Mode Dead Bride and I'm getting my 7th Char (Enzo) tomorrow. There's the occasional resource to grind out, but it's easily doable. Love it.
Every youtube vid I see these boss battles do maybe 10% of the attacks they do when I'm in the fight. I'm convinced content creators have been given an easy hard mode. No matter what build I follow I get absolutely demolished. The more attacks Indodge the more attacks come. The more defense I stack the more damage I take. The more hp I have the faster my health disapears. Sheilds get 1 shot no matter how high they are. What's shown here is nowhere near my experiene. CC easy mode.
Are you playing as part of a group or soloing bosses? Because you know that the boss' stats scale the more people you have in the instance, right? Also, are you using any resistances and using the correct weapon elements/bullet types to match the inherent weaknesses each boss has? Final Descendant is a whole MESS of rock/paper/scissors stats, in ADDITION to all the crit/weak point/fire rate/procs that you typically see in other games. Pierce vs. Crush vs. Burst is an extra 10% across the board if you pick the CORRECT one based on which boss you're doing.
Early on in the game, Resistance mods were great on bosses, later on in the game the Immunity mods "unleveled" are better because you don't need resist, just to be immune to the procs. A good setup would be 25k DEF, 10k HP and the correct Immunity or Resistance mod. If you are killing lots of enemies "HP Collector" is awesome. In the end, knowing the fight and how to move helps a lot, i always chuckle at players trying to avoid damage with their slow ass LMG's, if you have a lot of damage and RPM, you are going to get agro, and you are slow, you are going to have a bad time!
That's so strange, I thought DEF worked on shields and health. It states it caps at -80 dmg reduction. If so then I'd think DEF would make any shield/hp increase exponentially more valuable. Is this just a case of shit not translating properly or is it just broken?
The math data is flawed because 1. You can run multiple mods for Shield, HP, and Defense. You do not HAVE to run all your stats into one. 111k Defense and 800 HP is a flawed test philosophy. No build will ever run 800 HP, even if Defense focused. It's an extreme that follows flawed and biased tests philosophy.
I see there's a misunderstanding in the comments. Defense is still good but you need a high hp or shield to compliment it. Also I'd like to point out devour does not hit that hard. Pyro at least in my experience hits very hard with high accuracy compared to the others. Hanged man being second during his frenzy. I main gley with 20k def and hp during those fights and I have to respect the damage they can push out. Enzo Shields is superior with that Regen I'd be immortal too if I had hp collector still won't drop for me.
Tbh. I dont agree with the defense part as it scales with your hp/shield. You need to check the exact damage numbers when testing defense imo. How does def scale on a certain health/shield pool? Also certain defense stats scale different on other decendents and therefore your information could be misleading I do agree that at this stage of the game hp is the best and shield is good on certain heroes.
Please do an Ajax build bcuz you have me confused now with my build bcuz he needs the defensive right ? N also quit letting these Mfers n the comments get to you, you make great content your my go to everybody sleeping rn just wait ❤️💯
Dude..... i was PACKING on the defense before and wondering why 50k felt the same as 5k!!!! This really opened my eyes. Almost uninstalled the damn game over it 🤣
Awesome work. What's your take on mods like Safe Recovery, Psychological Victory, and Autoimmunity? These reduce of all incoming damage after calculations. You can potentially reduce up to 15% damage all around.
Do we have the data on Devourer attacks and their percent physical to elemental. Defense only helps on the former while the latter is all on your elemental defense vs that damage type.
@@afrosamurai3847 yes there’s a website that allows for us to see this information. I’m on my phoen rn but you can look up the bosses name and then tfd and it should show up on google
Shields only work this great with Enzo, If you try that with Valby or Bunny you die instantly, other operators work best with max HP or Max Def, he only showcased Enzo and misinformed the viewers by applying this to all characters by only show casing enzo.
@@robinroyale1751 Hells yeah! Kyle is fantastic with those two stats pushed hard. Sprinkle in some skill power and you'll see your ulti damage spike huge (NOT modifier, as it's already at 11k modifier. Push the power that gets amplified by multiplying against that 11k built in). MP Conversion, HP Conversion (Shield), and Stim Accelerant synergize with his kit really well, too.
Been running full Defense since the start of the game and i was wondering why i get ripped apart by some of the simple trash mobs...thank you for showing me i need to change this up (defense has never been so sht in any other game)
Just run more HP, Defense alone is not good. I run 60k defense with 30k HP and I'm immortal on Ultimate Ajax. Running shields on anyone that isn't Enzo is a death sentence, Enzo has crazy high shield regen he is the only descendant that can make that work, do that on any other descendant and they'll get ripped to shreds. Running high health also is pointless because it doesn't matter if you have 40k health if the bosses are nuking you. After all, you have no Defense. HP/Defense is the way to go on all descendants except Enzo, He's the only one that makes shields work. I run 1 defense mod, which is "Increased DEF" that's it, everything else is health and skill damage. The amount of misinformation on this video is crazy xD
@@ThaGodSmith Yeah i guess i went overboard. I was sitting at 96k Def with roughly 3500 hp. But each time when i went back to lvl 1 (lowering base stats) i'd had a baddd time till arround lvl 30 where the little hp i had to work with would start to mean anything again.
So, weve gone from thinking 25k is best defense before Dim et. Now we are finding out Defense is completely useless. And here I am farming Ultimate ajax?
said no defense.. but that descendant has one of the highest base def in the game. would have been better if you showcased sharen tanking that boss with . the first 3 intercept bosses have smol pp damage then pyromaniac hard is where their damage ramps up higher. both are true in all modes. that boss you showcased has 2-2.5k atk. i saw the first tick around 200+ damage. you have the right thinking but execution is a bit oof. i would have said you are correct about the shield thing if you are fast but the enemies in this game like that eye tentacle is hitscan no amount of fast movement can evade that laser . honestly you shouldve showcased the hangman 1 hit atk to show the defense vs shield argument.
Shields only work for characters that have special skills related to shields in this game, sorry, but dont go and suggest this for any characters that dont have similar things, is just a fact shields are poorly designed in this game. In Warframe you can have shields and HP in most character's builds along side damage and it's fine, here not so much, and in Warframe shields come back if you cover, here that simply doesnt happen. Lets say you use 7k shields in any other character and go into cover or out of combat... what will happen is that you can run the entire map without being attacked and when you get to the other side of the map your shields will still not be full. That is a fact, I've tested. If you dont have an ability to recover shields you are dead. Even in this video, when you got to 5 shields you were pretty much running for your life, because the moment your shields get thrashed you will die almost intantly. Dont do this people, specially if you are not on Enzo or the other guy that uses shields.
question is def works against all type of damage or only physical, but any way looks like we cant get enough pool of hp when def percent start shining.
Curious about gley then who doesn’t use shields and only health. Would you just all in on health and no defense? Even when your abilities take a % of your health when used?
Yeah sell out to hp as much as you can. And if you still struggle THEN go for def since shields is obsolete. But don’t do def modules when you have room for those hp % boost modules. Basically prioritize hp first always
Defense has severel diminishing returns after 35-40k. You’re not going to reduce incoming damage by 99% that’s not how that works. Let’s say it’s optimal 50-60% with ridiculous high defense. It’s still going to do several hundred damage a hit, which you had 400 health so you die anyways. The point of defense is running it with high health too. Because your reducing it’s damage by quite a bit and your health pool is big enough to take 10-20 more hits than usual. Also it’s important to note; shields do regenerate yes, very slowly, but there are not shield orbs that adds drop, but not health and mp.
Your example of % applies to defense, too. The flaw with your point is defense has to be stacked with HP and / or shield to work because it makes the hits do less damage, but if you don't invest in hit points then defense is wasted anyway. If defense sponges a hit from 2k to 200, but you only have 1k health, you will still die in 5 hits. Put 10k health with the defense, and then you are tankier than your first example. Your shield and health showcase a way to get tankier while saving modules for something else possibly.
@@JJ-gu9yy but buddy that’s exactly the point I’m making. In order for defense to be good you have to invest into hp and shields. WHY do that when you can just give yourself an extra 200-500% more health. Like use common sense. Fully selling out to max hp and shields and making those base values as high as we possibly can so these + 341 and 540 boosts to shields and hp give us even higher numbers will always net you more than defense would. The proof is in the pudding. Ontop of the fact that the orbs are off a percentage so even if you had 20k hp. One orb can heal you a large % of that and that one orb could negate 30s of damage you took. Who cares about defense when you still take damage and the tick rate on damage is high. Meaning when bosses hit you for 195 or 75 or 45. They do it multiple times in a row like a machine gun.
That’s exactly why I showed the video how I did to get people to understand. The investment on defense compared to hp and shields is just always going to be weaker compared to building base values of hp and shields and then boosting them by a large percentage
You are 100% correct just with Enzo health is something that you shouldn't be worried about, but DEF is more important than the shields because that is going to lower the damage you take per hit. DEF is going to slow down after 50k because that's how the game was designed.
@z00ko Wrong you don't need to invest into all three, it's 2 plus resistances if you want to maximize dr, you'd want shields to function like hp and increase def and shields or do def and hp, yeah you can go all hp but multiple c slots isn't great for everyone's build. You're just being illogical, the game is diverse enough to where you can't simplify it down to a single thought process.
If you guys think defense is useless because you watched this, keep in mind it’s an extremely flawed display. He had basically no HP when he was showcasing 100k defense. Imagine an enemy hits for 800 damage, you reduce it’s damage to 200 but you only have 400 health lol.. looks really awful though Neil you realize after 35-40k defense there’s severe diminishing returns. So say you run 35k defense and you have a reasonable 15k health. Now that 800 damage attack hits for maybe 500 (instead of the original 200 with 100k defense) except now you have 15k health instead of 400 health lol.. allowing you to take ~20-30 hits instead of the two he took with 100k defense and 400 hp. Don’t be fooled for views. Still run high up and as much defense as you can without sacrificing too much to the damage ratio. Shields ONLY work on Enzo because he can chain regenerate them, which costs MP and prevents him from having max uptime on his huge crit buff/lmg crap anyways, so it’s time wasted instead of dpsing
Exactly! He basically had no hp to work off with his massive def.
Agreed. I gots 65k Def and 40k HP.
My thoughts exactly
Exactly!
Extremely flawed display of how the stats work with the intention of getting clicks for flawed information. Please remove this video
Honestly me having both a defensive build and a full health build I’d agree with the no defense health it’s better to me if you haven’t tried it this critiquing it and also listening to you makes no sense
I’ll say this, you were on to it. The issue is you need to look into what exactly your character scales the most with. Enzo scales with and has higher shield values. (look at it as their own personal modifier) This is why Enzo specifically is good with shields. So it’s not a one fits all approach.
@@Rich_Rulez I said this in the video in the first 30seconds
@z00ko just so you know Enzo scales with shield. In case you forgot you mentioned it 30 seconds into the video 😂😂😂
You got a Sub for this, well done and thanks, now i can stop crawling around on the floor.
This is what I’ve been looking for. Thank you for the video. I’m gonna implement this right away.
Defense isn't useless, and shields are useless to gley so it's a matter of descendant to build.
But you have a good point in shield building for more mods space to input, but still you need to invest
on shield regeneration unlike health that can be healed by other descendant and orbs to pick up to have full hp in an instant vs waiting to regen
As a bunny i have to disagree a bit, defense has drastic eimishing returns past around 40k, but that 40k reduces damage by about 30-40%. I run about 45k defense/10k hp/ almost 0 shield and am never downed. Often when others go down and i revive them enemies can only take a quarter of my hp off while im reviving others. You need to have a good mix of both def and hp.
You dont seem to understand how defence works, or that it doesnt usually apply to shields so using HP+DEF is actually more EHP than HP+Shields will ever give you.
Effective Health (EHP) is the amount of health that the player effectively has when considering both Health and Defense in union.
Also, due to how defense actually works, most games put a limit or severe diminishing returns the higher you go, in TFD severe diminishing returns is after 50k, so being between 35k-50k is good.
Example, 1000 defense gives 10% damage reduction and 2000 defense will give 18% damage reduction and 4000 defense will give 28% damage reduction.
Stop spreading misinformation. Defense does affect the damage that your shield takes. It's even super simple to test. Go to an easy zone, get hit by an enemy and remember how much damage it does. Then take off all sources of defense and get hit again by the same enemy. The damage you take will be higher with less defense.
@@benjamingardner5277 Please read properly before you slander "doesnt USUALLY apply to shields", it was not a definitive statement unlike this clickbait video.
You are applying WOW math and concepts , such as also remembering this method is for killing bosses that take 15 mins to kill and every character is programmed to have the same ratio, cant have one DPS needing more healing than other DPS
Decedent is more like Diablo , Which is more about hit/recover ratios and that every character is programmed to have a different ratio like in Diablo, So in diablo you can carry a glass cannon with no health/shields/defence through the game just to one shot the boss
its a ARPG not a MMO
@pdy_ you don't even know what slander means 😂😂😂😂
Ive never seen anyone really talk about why you should run hp, defense or shields over one or the other. which is why im glad I found this video. Definitely gonna switch out my defense modules for some shields, thanks man :)
1 shield = 1 hp. If that is true;
More hp you have, more health orb regens you (should be % base iirc).
For shield, you cannot regen during battle unless enzo (broken on enzo).
For health, you can regen it during battle via adds/mob removal.
You gotta sit out of battle to regen shield (dps loss, unless enzo) but you can keep higher dps uptime with hp with orbs you pick up along the way.
If you are losing hp quicker than regen via orbs. It's either lacking in defense or skill issue (positioning and mechanic).
But this video tells u defence is bad? Well stand alone yes, but defence give what we call effective hp, it does more the more hp you have. If your current 50k def say... mitigate 40% dmg, compared to base def with 10% mitigate(an example). You have 30% more hp than what it's shown.
In the vid, he has shown you stand alone defence build, but due to lack of hp or shield, it do not translate well into survivability.
If you slow play the video when he takes dmg during pure hp build and pure defence build.... you can see how much less dmg he take roughly. And calculate how much effective hp 100k defence generally is.
@kaitee1789 Where in my comment did I say defense is bad? All I said was I'm gonna switch out my pure defense modules for shields and here you are essaying for the sake of it. Well I hope you had fun typing that out.
@@Oogwayne u mentioned no one talked about it.
U mentioned swapping out.
I didn't mention you saying defence is bad, the video did.
I am telling you defence isn't that bad and shields are horrible on non enzo.
I mostly copy paste from my other comment anyways. Z00ko does nice content, just felt that he did defence dirty here without proper testing. But you do you, I solo most bosses anyways, your survivability has nothing to do with me.
1. Shields are useless. 2. You dont need any more than 30k defense. 3. HP is the most important defensive stat. 4. Get HP on all 4 of your external components.
Follow this and you'll die a lot less.
Facts
Enzo shields are not useless
Its like im running my gley with no defense mods at all on hard mode bosses, she only has her base defense. And i see people around me dying in hard mode intercepts all the time but i rarely if ever die because of my massive HP pool and Gley can also regen health easily in intercepts since she can syphon health from those pillars that are everywhere. Meanwhile on some of my other characters i have around 40k def and they still struggle to keep alive. DEF doesn't really do much if you have ways to regen other resources easily, but if you don't then it can certainly help
In order for defense to work properly you must equip HP. Just like Enzo's shield regeneration ability, defense scales off of the amount of hit points that you have. It's a damage reduction modifier, a percentage of damage per percentage of health.
1:22
"if you wanna make a million dollars, normally shields recover like lets say 1$ an hour, well he's saying well I'll give you 25% a dollar"
That's the weirdest way anyone ever said "he gives you 25% shield"
@@DeadByFleshLight you gotta make it simple for people of all age types and learning types. I am a trainer irl so if someone isn’t catching on you have to find ways to make it click
@@z00ko Sorry I didn't mean it in a mean way or anything I just found it funny.
Keep on being you friend :D
@@z00ko You quite literally DID THE OPPOSITE. You over complicated it
Cant even begin to tell yall how many vids ive seen saying “ignore def” or “ignore shields”. Def actually HELPS shields with dmg mitigation. Def feeds into shields as well. So many people say contradicting statements when in fact it all works together. Some characters just benefit more off certain stats than others. It all works. Just build however you want, truthfully. Not everyone just sits there and tanks boss hits, thats just a dumb way to play.
i think the math checks out.
Scenario 1:
10k hp and 10k def
assuming 10k def provides 10% damage reduction
hit = 1000 damage
damage taken after reduction= 900 damage
10k / 900 = 11.11 hits before death
Scenario 2:
20k hp and 0 def
assuming 0 def provides 0% damage reduction
hit = 1000 damage
damage taken after reduction= 1000 damage
20k / 1000 = 20 hits before death
Seems like pure investment into HP is more worthwhile. can tank more hits. can someone double check my math please?
If this is true, there are 2 benefits.
1-stacking HP is easier due to % increase and
2-mod slots for def can be taken out to save mod capacity.
Did an experiment on ultimate bunny with hp modules only.
Stats:
15705.24k hp
1107 def
345.44 max shield
Modules placed:
Increased hp
Hp amplification
Tested with Devourer (Hard)
Auto damage: 78-90+ ticks
Poison: 190/tick, 219 with boss autos
Heavy hit: 389
@@ritsha2214 so bunny don't need def module?
@@randomgreyalien4835 yes because for some reason it makes her more squishy when hp and def mods are combined. Currently running the same mods with no problem with bosses or solo missions.
investing heavily into survivability will cause your DPS to suffer and in quite a few cases it can cause you to fail content like Colossi.
My Bunny has around 10k HP, 10k DEF, under 1k shields, 2-3k Elemental Resistance and I can survive taking quite the amount of damage, can't tank like a tank but enough to easily survive in end game content. And all I have is a single HP module slotted in.
personally I like to have 3 HP, 1 DEF components with high main stat secondaries, then depending on the enemies element type and what I have, I'll switch out a component for one with a higher element resistance if needed. highest component elemental resistance I've seen is 3800 which is more than enough as you don't need to hit crazy numbers to reach a "good" DMG reduction like with DEF.
I did what you said, and my health/DEF is better. The reason that the DEF is so bad at higher is because the game caps the scaling with health and shields at 60k and 50k is a better safe area for more health and shields to use that DEF. Shields is only good on Enzo you could just get tapped by any add and you will stop regen because you were hit. There are way better health mods like hp collector if you kill a add in a boss fight every 2 seconds you get 9% hp, the best thing to do for Enzo is shields and DEF like 60%/40% Ajax you want a 33.3%/33.3%/33.3% split because that is what he is for.
This video is wrong, how u run high defense with low hp how is that suppose to work. Defense mitigates damage based on the amount of hp you have. What is it mitigating if you just have 800 hp? You gonna get a lot of people killed out here with this video. And defense is not a big investment shield is, bro you had to use 3 mods to get your shield that high meanwhile one max increase defense mod and a couple of def on components and you get 33k defense. Those wasted mod slots on shield can be used for better mods to help you descendant do more damage.
searched and found your video bc i thought about testing this out and you did an excellent job thank you
That testing is a good way to check if the modules you have work or not.
Goated guide, as an Ajax player having infinite hp is the way to go. Also transferring shield to even more hp with transcendent mod. Although the skills do scale from defense you don’t need a ton of investment to have a lot for Ajax.
I love your content, in these type of games knowledge is power, and your giving us super sayin levels of knowledge lol thanks for the upload.
Dude... been looking for this info. One guy told me the same, but wanted more data. Removing my DEF mods and comps ASAP. Thank you!
I started a new Sharon with 47 points max blue HP and "An amazing investment" and some HP heal 8%. No shield and no defense and running around picking up Valbys dead to the flying curling orbs.
One thing i thought could maybe be the case: Void Bosses JUST do the elemental damage Type so defense does nothing against them but normal enemies do physical Damage
Not tested it myself but it maybe could be that way
That’s a good theory, I definitely would like to know how the results turn out
Would still hold but u would die faster. But u still need DEF in there with the health or shield to further decrease the damage
I've tried running antibody and the immunity mods, and other than the immunity mods negating tick damage, elemental resist mods are trash.
Best thing is the immunity mods to stop tick damage, otherwise building resistance is a waste of capacity.
I also just leave the immunity mods at base capacity, I don't level them up at all.
Note: the negating tick damage is arguably really good, don't get me wrong, but resistance itself is not good at all.
Top tier video!!what a game changer, looks like im dropping def mods in all my builds, yeees finally a free slot!
This is insane man. Appreciate the info!
Yeah, insanely bad logic. DEF is good if you can fit it with Shield or HP. Also there is huge diminishing returns after 45k DEF, I usually aim for 10-25k DEF with som HP and maybe an Immunity mod.
Now thats a lot of defense lmao! But! It drops off strongly after like 40k defense.. and it is affected after your health.. so having both should be better..
As a gley player I stopped stacking up for def and go all hp. With as low def as 10k I can still tank all attacks and stand inside dead brides blizzard dome like it is nothing.
Can you make a video of other characters? Because I feel like there’s a lot of outliers that makes other characters rely on defensive stats. Like for instance, does status resistance even matter then? If there was a build for gley would you build for only health? And cut out defense and shields since she has none?
w info, I appreciate it!
So I watched a video from Ryechew about this, and from what he gathered, early on, defense is good, because void intercepts do more physical than elemental,
when you reach hard mode, theres less non-elemental type attack so it actually gets used less frequently, the void intercept bosses in normal are roughly 66-75% Non-elemental and the rest elemental atk, in hard mode it becomes a minimum of roughly 45%? elemental attack and the rest non-elemental, keep in mind i said minimum, the % of elemental attack goes up the higher boss is in the group. He said he runs defense substat on his memory because when you run defense nowhere else it ends up being a huge difference and that all makes sense to me.
As an example,
Normal Swampwalker has 335 Firearm Attack and 130 Toxic attack Thats 70% Firearm and 30% Elemental.
Hard Swampwalker has 353 Firearm Attack and 382 Toxic Attack. Thats 48% Firearm 52% Elemental. Not to mention the amount of elemental damage essentially tripled from normal to hard. So the value being reduced by the defense basically hasn't changed however the elemental attack amount not affected by it tripled.
And all these UA-camrs talking about being 40k DEF. Like for instant, I run Gley and we all know to invest in HP. I wanted to invest more into what Gley was built around. Not just HP but HP recovery. I use HP collector mob, along with components with “HP recovery in combat”. I haven’t really tested it but I strongly believe it boosts the effects of everything that recovers HP period.. This video was needed, maybe even more deeper analysis into all this. This video makes me want to create way better builds now. My Gley is damn near immortal, even when running a 4 man team. Which enemies and bosses are buffed to balance out the battle. Build your character based around what they specialize in. This should be simple fundamentals but a major over look in TFD community. 👍🏾🙂↕️
Wow awesome info
Defense is just a damage mitigator. With that being said not ever character has the ability to regenerate shields on the fly at will. So there was a bad interpretation there. To make a long answer short, defense shouldn’t be the end all be all on your build. It’s good to have but shouldn’t be priority. High health, high shields, or a mix of all 3 (def, shield, health) is the best way to go. Health or shields first, then you can spec into everything else. My Ajax has 85k Def 23k shields and 29k health and I don’t die…even if I try 😂
Keep up the grind my brutha 💯
ok, now try 20-30k def and the rest health. on most char that will likely be the best. enzo with his shield ability might be unique, but in general, from what i've seen from this kind of testing, there is an ideal combo of def and health.
@robmurray5453 I agree with your comment as any character with a couple mods and the right external components can have 12 - 15k health and 25 - 30k def. (Minimal investment) But I do agree that you need to look at your characters kit and tailor the balance accordingly. However, except for Enzo shields (Maybe Sharen) are not that great from my experience, so far. I usually do not go out of my way to invest in shields.
Thanks for the info!
There's no point in adding defense above 40,000 because defense has diminishing returns. Shields and health do not have diminishing returns, they're just a percent of your base. Get the health or shields first and then add 20K to 40K defense. If you ignore health and defense for shields, then you can be locked in a death loop because you do not rez with any shields and may not have time to cast any shield regeneration. The external equipment forces everyone to play a balanced build because there are only so many sub stat roll options that prevent cheesing. Defense without health or shields isn't defending anything because there is nothing there to defend. Emphasizing one or the other on particular characters may save one module slot for something else.
M8 you deserve a like and sub, thank you for the info
You so underrated, you understand how the game works much more than the others
Shields only work on a select few descendants like the tanks and Enzo. Hp and def do the trick on everyone else. The reason your def showcase shattered is because you had little to no hp to work off.
@@gamermike24 that’s exactly why I say don’t run it. Whenever something needs you to invest in one thing to make one thing somewhat good. You’re now needing more modules to make something mid good. Instead sell out to one stat that gives you a straight jt up immediate return and you can actively have built in game mechanics help you.
Defense mitigates incoming damage, it only works if you work with the descendant strong attribute, be it shields or hp. You are correct in saying you work with the descendants base stats but you missed the mark completely in your conclusion. The base stats tell you which to prioritize out of the three. For most characters besides Enzo that is. Hp and defense because Enzo can regen shield. For Bunny or Sharen however, once their shield is gone they are cooked unless they have defense and resistance to mitigate the incoming dmg. Check out Ryechews games vids he and a bunch of math nerds crunch the actaeon numbers.
well damn :O you just saved me a lot of upgrades
was a good try till the defense test part, no idea what you're trying to do there...
Thanks for enlightening us. Everyone should still put their def comps in storage in case they fix defense.
very useful tip / guide
You are the man. This definately works. So with Gley are you gonna go all HP. Obviously she doesn’t use shields.
Shoulda tested def and hp stacked against pure hp and def shield stack against pure shield.
Time the difference.
Idk if there is a place with consistent dmg. This would allow us to understand better how much def brings to the table imo.
Def imo, give EHP, effective hp, and that is based off how much hp or shield you have, and having non of the counterpart is well... counterproductive.
I do see your point in def being a weaker stats, since it requires another stats to conpliment it.
Shield is good with enzo for sure. Saw your enzo build vid last time and i liked the idea. Mp is can be an issue imo, still fixing him up so idk.
HP is superior to shield generally (dps wise, if you purely built shield vs hp). Shield regenerate too slowly or none at all during combat. If you are dying, you need to get out of combat to regen shield (AKA dps loss). Having more hp means tanking more (1:1 to shield it seems). But orb heals for more (% base right...?) and can be done during battle with boss.
Argument can be made that you take more dmg than you can pick up to heal. And my argument is that you got skill issue lol.
For hp and shield, ig just build it according to what your playstyle is or w.e u comfortable with. Def was not tested too well here imo, but def a weaker stats.
You hit diminishing returns on DEF at around 40K. Of course your DEF demonstration looks terrible when you've got no HP. Even an Ajax with 100K Def and no HP is gonna get melted. I run 40K DEF and throw everything else into HP. I have like 200 Shields. Elemental resists play a huge part too. Shields are useless. When someone picks you up you get full HP and no Shield and the HP candy is everywhere. Spent $0 on this game, I'm at Hard Mode Dead Bride and I'm getting my 7th Char (Enzo) tomorrow. There's the occasional resource to grind out, but it's easily doable. Love it.
that's crazy. they do really need to look into this.
Every youtube vid I see these boss battles do maybe 10% of the attacks they do when I'm in the fight. I'm convinced content creators have been given an easy hard mode. No matter what build I follow I get absolutely demolished. The more attacks Indodge the more attacks come. The more defense I stack the more damage I take. The more hp I have the faster my health disapears. Sheilds get 1 shot no matter how high they are. What's shown here is nowhere near my experiene. CC easy mode.
Are you playing as part of a group or soloing bosses? Because you know that the boss' stats scale the more people you have in the instance, right? Also, are you using any resistances and using the correct weapon elements/bullet types to match the inherent weaknesses each boss has? Final Descendant is a whole MESS of rock/paper/scissors stats, in ADDITION to all the crit/weak point/fire rate/procs that you typically see in other games. Pierce vs. Crush vs. Burst is an extra 10% across the board if you pick the CORRECT one based on which boss you're doing.
Early on in the game, Resistance mods were great on bosses, later on in the game the Immunity mods "unleveled" are better because you don't need resist, just to be immune to the procs. A good setup would be 25k DEF, 10k HP and the correct Immunity or Resistance mod. If you are killing lots of enemies "HP Collector" is awesome.
In the end, knowing the fight and how to move helps a lot, i always chuckle at players trying to avoid damage with their slow ass LMG's, if you have a lot of damage and RPM, you are going to get agro, and you are slow, you are going to have a bad time!
I run hp and defense and I’m still a glass cannon, this explains a lot
That's so strange, I thought DEF worked on shields and health. It states it caps at -80 dmg reduction. If so then I'd think DEF would make any shield/hp increase exponentially more valuable. Is this just a case of shit not translating properly or is it just broken?
I love how people see the data with their own 2 eyes and disagree. Using ajax (who benefits specifically from using def) is not an argument.
But that’s the thing. Does it even benefit Ajax that much. It’s already diminishing returns at 25k+
I have on Ajax 20k hp and 125k defence
@kingcurmudgeon8685 yes the more def on ajax the stronger his abilities ajax abilities run off def and hp
I want to see tests against more lethal bosses like pyro. True test is tanking the chain or his ball attack
The math data is flawed because 1. You can run multiple mods for Shield, HP, and Defense. You do not HAVE to run all your stats into one. 111k Defense and 800 HP is a flawed test philosophy. No build will ever run 800 HP, even if Defense focused. It's an extreme that follows flawed and biased tests philosophy.
I see there's a misunderstanding in the comments. Defense is still good but you need a high hp or shield to compliment it.
Also I'd like to point out devour does not hit that hard. Pyro at least in my experience hits very hard with high accuracy compared to the others. Hanged man being second during his frenzy.
I main gley with 20k def and hp during those fights and I have to respect the damage they can push out. Enzo Shields is superior with that Regen I'd be immortal too if I had hp collector still won't drop for me.
Tbh. I dont agree with the defense part as it scales with your hp/shield.
You need to check the exact damage numbers when testing defense imo. How does def scale on a certain health/shield pool?
Also certain defense stats scale different on other decendents and therefore your information could be misleading
I do agree that at this stage of the game hp is the best and shield is good on certain heroes.
Please do an Ajax build bcuz you have me confused now with my build bcuz he needs the defensive right ? N also quit letting these Mfers n the comments get to you, you make great content your my go to everybody sleeping rn just wait ❤️💯
Nice man.
Dude..... i was PACKING on the defense before and wondering why 50k felt the same as 5k!!!! This really opened my eyes. Almost uninstalled the damn game over it 🤣
Bruh u bout to make me an Enzo main 😅
Thank you 🙏
What do u think is best strap for Kyle
Awesome work. What's your take on mods like Safe Recovery, Psychological Victory, and Autoimmunity? These reduce of all incoming damage after calculations. You can potentially reduce up to 15% damage all around.
Not worth it. The percentage values for selling out to max shields or hp would always yield a bigger return
This made me realize i need to run sheilds on Sharon
and put trans mod Overcharged Edge where it increases Ambush Damage(Sharen's passive) by the amount of Shields consumed. Sheeesh
Do we have the data on Devourer attacks and their percent physical to elemental. Defense only helps on the former while the latter is all on your elemental defense vs that damage type.
@@afrosamurai3847 yes there’s a website that allows for us to see this information. I’m on my phoen rn but you can look up the bosses name and then tfd and it should show up on google
In practice, on Enzo I now remove all defense mods and invest only in hp and shield
Doesn’t a little def help the shield take less damage?
@@antonvoltchok7794 def + hp works just fine, shields are trash on everyone besides the tanks and Enzo.
Shields only work this great with Enzo, If you try that with Valby or Bunny you die instantly, other operators work best with max HP or Max Def, he only showcased Enzo and misinformed the viewers by applying this to all characters by only show casing enzo.
Intelligent and you got to the point really quickly. Subbed!
preciate you gang, yo vids are always clutch!
I was wondering why some bosses would just melt my life away 🤦🏾♂️
On my freyna I love a mix of hp and defense because she has not much shield
I want to see what the Korean and Japanese players doing for the built.
Confusing, if the highest category is defense and that’s what he says to spec into. Then instead hp and shield?
Did you fix your shields bruh mine are like paper no matter what
Well, looks like my main kyle is going all out in shields. Back to the drawing board
Just tried it on kyle with all shield and cool down. I'm too legit to quit.
@@robinroyale1751 Hells yeah! Kyle is fantastic with those two stats pushed hard. Sprinkle in some skill power and you'll see your ulti damage spike huge (NOT modifier, as it's already at 11k modifier. Push the power that gets amplified by multiplying against that 11k built in).
MP Conversion, HP Conversion (Shield), and Stim Accelerant synergize with his kit really well, too.
Don’t do that
@@EPK-RAPWhy not?
Been running full Defense since the start of the game and i was wondering why i get ripped apart by some of the simple trash mobs...thank you for showing me i need to change this up (defense has never been so sht in any other game)
Just run more HP, Defense alone is not good. I run 60k defense with 30k HP and I'm immortal on Ultimate Ajax. Running shields on anyone that isn't Enzo is a death sentence, Enzo has crazy high shield regen he is the only descendant that can make that work, do that on any other descendant and they'll get ripped to shreds. Running high health also is pointless because it doesn't matter if you have 40k health if the bosses are nuking you. After all, you have no Defense. HP/Defense is the way to go on all descendants except Enzo, He's the only one that makes shields work. I run 1 defense mod, which is "Increased DEF" that's it, everything else is health and skill damage. The amount of misinformation on this video is crazy xD
@@ThaGodSmith Yeah i guess i went overboard. I was sitting at 96k Def with roughly 3500 hp. But each time when i went back to lvl 1 (lowering base stats) i'd had a baddd time till arround lvl 30 where the little hp i had to work with would start to mean anything again.
Yo thank you so much bro this really helped me!!!!
So, weve gone from thinking 25k is best defense before Dim
et. Now we are finding out Defense is completely useless. And here I am farming Ultimate ajax?
He had 400 life when he was testing defensive. That’s stupid
Defense isn't useless. He's spreading misinformation while using low hp
what is de defense amount needed to reach 80% cap? thats kinda all i need to know :p
I've come to sort of the same conclusions.. I've been running hp and the mod that negates 10% incoming damage and seems to feel better to me.
Your defense test is wrong, defense works different then health or shield, since def scales with health and shield....
Tbh i am sold
Sold your cheeks
My Ajax sits at 65k Def buffed with over 40k HP I dont get close to dying.
solid content man!!
said no defense.. but that descendant has one of the highest base def in the game. would have been better if you showcased sharen tanking that boss with . the first 3 intercept bosses have smol pp damage then pyromaniac hard is where their damage ramps up higher. both are true in all modes. that boss you showcased has 2-2.5k atk. i saw the first tick around 200+ damage. you have the right thinking but execution is a bit oof. i would have said you are correct about the shield thing if you are fast but the enemies in this game like that eye tentacle is hitscan no amount of fast movement can evade that laser . honestly you shouldve showcased the hangman 1 hit atk to show the defense vs shield argument.
But quick question why in your enzo build you included increased def and iron will if you showing here the opposite
@@Skewguard I grew. I made that video before I labbed the defense system more
Could you maybe do a 2.0 build what would you change brother?
Shields only work for characters that have special skills related to shields in this game, sorry, but dont go and suggest this for any characters that dont have similar things, is just a fact shields are poorly designed in this game. In Warframe you can have shields and HP in most character's builds along side damage and it's fine, here not so much, and in Warframe shields come back if you cover, here that simply doesnt happen. Lets say you use 7k shields in any other character and go into cover or out of combat... what will happen is that you can run the entire map without being attacked and when you get to the other side of the map your shields will still not be full. That is a fact, I've tested. If you dont have an ability to recover shields you are dead.
Even in this video, when you got to 5 shields you were pretty much running for your life, because the moment your shields get thrashed you will die almost intantly. Dont do this people, specially if you are not on Enzo or the other guy that uses shields.
I think only Ajax and Kyle benefits from defense stat
How do u get thise numbers on the side of ur shield and health?
It’s a setting in the game where you turn on all damage numbers and your heath numbers
I've been living in the Matrix
U only need 50k defence, no more no less. Everything else goes into health and DPS
what enzo skin is that? it looks so good
Surely 1 def mod and 2 HP is better than 3 HP when the last HP mod is only 60%, get to 40k def wit h1 mod and then rest is HP, im on 10k hp 40k def
hp collecter most definitely does recover hp
Loving Enzo way too much. However, there is HP regen in this game. You need to get out more and see more mods.
question is def works against all type of damage or only physical, but any way looks like we cant get enough pool of hp when def percent start shining.
Curious about gley then who doesn’t use shields and only health.
Would you just all in on health and no defense? Even when your abilities take a % of your health when used?
More healing after getting around 20k HP is better on Gley than defense to help to stay ahead of the HP burn in her kit.
@@Wwhat357 what mod provides healing?
Yeah sell out to hp as much as you can. And if you still struggle THEN go for def since shields is obsolete. But don’t do def modules when you have room for those hp % boost modules. Basically prioritize hp first always
@@koleplacer8267 Regeneration boost, or selective recovery HP. You probably just want one, and the blue one would be cheaper to max out.
course its easy to be tanky, but how u gonna skill stuff?
Guns.......lots of guns
You tested the 100k defense with 400 life lol? It’s definitely going to look better with no defense and high shield/or life
Defense has severel diminishing returns after 35-40k. You’re not going to reduce incoming damage by 99% that’s not how that works. Let’s say it’s optimal 50-60% with ridiculous high defense. It’s still going to do several hundred damage a hit, which you had 400 health so you die anyways. The point of defense is running it with high health too. Because your reducing it’s damage by quite a bit and your health pool is big enough to take 10-20 more hits than usual. Also it’s important to note; shields do regenerate yes, very slowly, but there are not shield orbs that adds drop, but not health and mp.
He tested 7500k shields and 400 health too