Dr Oliver Hartwich on the state of our education system
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- Опубліковано 8 лис 2022
- Dr Oliver Hartwich from the New Zealand Initiative chats with Sean Plunket about the state of our education system.
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Kids these days are encouraged to have opinions and be activists but no one encourages them to know what they're talking about.
That is so sadly true
They are subjected to hysteria and fear don't forget, children should have their childhoods without constant alarmism
They are actually opinions picked up from mob culture
As a teacher, I couldn’t agree more. We aren’t permitted to impart knowledge because that’s old fashioned and just ‘plain wrong’, instead students make the decisions about what and how they will learn. I hate it. It doesn’t work and the kids are NOT learning. Criminal.
The students don't make decisions about how they learn and your extreme demeanor of saying "you hate it" is not ideal. My perception of the issue from experience is when "culture" and "inclusion" which created hate, exclusion and teams which diluted focused learning and was inappropriate as to the intention of these learning institutions were introduced, we learnt very little with so much distraction. I was in a poor school in South Auckland 30 years ago, there were A LOT of poor nz Irish, scottish and war vet families that had been there for generations living with maori, had all half maori or white nzers, my family have maori and colonial ancestries of really good people, also Asian, indian, all in the same classrooms and we never even knew what race was, we just liked each other. We were poor and good people and helped each but were encouraged to feel rich in the live we had for each other, it was beautiful. There were a minority of extreme racist maori all of us had to watch out for because there was also a lot of white looking maori, I got spat at as a kid as young as 7 and yelled at pakeha and palangi regularly without any reason. The race based policies were introduced with the lie that white people were rich and oppressing maori was the most disgusting and discriminatory policies ever made. It ignited the most racist people in our suburbs for generations and a lot of white people and their maori families were forced out through abuse and exclusion through fake inclusion in their lives and schools that our ancestors had donated their skills and hardworking to build without any help. Our ancestors are being lied about and the ignorance and damage through also teachers that are grown ups just sit by and allow this divisive behaviour as an example of a good thing. Now it's rainbow clubs excluding straight children and making other sexual identities a special thing, in our school time we had gay,lesbian,Trans and no one thought it was weird and didn't have a rainbow club designed to exclude people from grown adults. However in my time the things protecting us such as dare programnes that created mutual empathy ftom police to kids and vice versa for later in life was removed and drama classes were removed when this was giving us common ground and giving us self esteem. The policies and these clubs and these obviously excluding ideas like blaming race on failure while turning people against each other, helping some financially and others not for inclusion when a school is for education to get you a job and should apply its help to all nz kids is ridiculous and has turned our education into a hateful, immature joke.
@@elizabethbradley4301 why not listen to the message instead of implying someone is an extremist for having strong negative feelings.
@@bennichols1113 I didn't say the message was negative. I have had a very bad education and bullying and separation of treatment in our mixed families because of these institutions and policies so how about listen to mine. She needs to read my feedback and act accordingly to stop repeating the same bs in our schools and be the adult and not the child
@@bennichols1113 thank you Ben. The rant above has nothing to do with what I was saying.
@@elizabethbradley4301 As I skimmed your very long response I see that you didn’t hear what I was saying. You’re way off the topic I addressed.
Yes! We need to declare an emergency in the NZ education system. Thank you, thank you.
Yes I agree with you. The kids are missing out.
Make Oliver CEO of the Ministry of Education.
Great to hear, someone who does not mince his words. To many women in teaching. Bring back male teachers.
Totally agree with Dr Hartwich. Only way to reform is to terminate the M of Ed and create a new Ministry from start.
What a disgrace. They did assess it properly in my day. So what happened? I don't think the government cares about education. It keeps people stupid.
President Zuma (South Arica) said that he disliked "clever" blacks ie those educated enough to oppose him.Classical despot tactics that we are seeing here in NZ
This was an eye-opener. Not totally surprising to hear but outlined well by Dr Hartwich. Thanks Sean.
"You cannot teach creativity and critical thinking in the abstract." So true.
Yes, a nice line.
As a parent and a former education governor I can no longer recommend to parents that our education system is of any value to their children.
Yes. Please, please please fix the mess that is our Education system. It is a bloody disgrace.
We have been promoting a "consequence free" society for decades and this is just another symptom.
Very sad but we all knew this was happening. The pursuit of excellence is frowned upon.
Dear The PlatformNZ Team, 🥰My darling Dad who is nearly 90yrs old and still in good health for years now has been helping children of the local College in his area in reading and the history of NZ. He has helped hundreds of kids and actually he gets asked for dinner or lunch by the parents as a big thank you for his help. He does it all voluntarily and loves to see how the children get over their difficulty and blossom. Having that extra support makes all the difference in children's lives. It's like my Dad says you can actually see the light bulb go off when they get it. He does a wonderful job for the children. Great interview, thanks a lot.
This guy is awesome!
No standards is what we do best!
I new it was bad , but FFS this is shocking….does explain some of the social issues we are experiencing though.
Time for some significant resignations- starting with the Secretary of Education
Good on you Oliver I enjoyed the passion you displayed, excellent stuff
I remember a Minister of Education, in a previous Labour government, saying "When a student leaves school, so long as they are gender conscious and culturally aware, then their education is successful.
Ohhhhhmy goodness. Isn’t that a ridiculous statement
Wow, Oliver didn't hold back. Such a nice surprise.
The problem at High school is that most teachers are teaching subjects they don't even have a tertiary degree in and are expected to pass onto the students the required learning skills they themselves don't have.
I live at the pointy end of this failure...trying to employ young people to work in my business. So many school leavers cannot read and write or do simple math. Their general education is appalling too, they have no idea about history, geography, finances, politics,. Our schools do not prepare young people for a constructive life in our society. We have teenagers who arrive for an interview, clutching their bloody cell phone, totally unprepared for a job interview in every respect...Its just plain disgraceful!!!
Finally!!!
I hope Olivier is not cancelled for his extreme views as they are TRUE
Totally agree with your guest.
Great interview! Very sad
Absolutely correct!!! Have felt this for long time - as I watched grand kids struggling due to teaching inadequacies like I have not think possible Go back to basics!! Oliver is onto the problem!!
Thanks for highlighting this topic Sean, we are way overdue for a rethink in our education sector. It does matter when students go out into the commercial world, how well they are educated counts . Unfortunately, some school leavers aren't up to speed. Great stuff Oliver, your passion shows you are correct.
Badly educated people have thoughts and opinions that are easier to control
@@Eohippus100 there is a lot of truth in that comment, when the PM hasn't pushed the boat out on her own education I doubt she will for anyone else....baring mind she the top job atm probably doesn't resonate with her.
Cultural sensitivity, left wing politics and a shift from ‘Eurocentric’ teaching methods in the classroom are policies which have caused the decline.
Everything is in a state under Ardernaroā
🤣👍
Lets get rid of her as fast as possible
Give the new policy to the Act party. I believe that they will be the next government.
Absolutely agree.Good on you Oliver
Without speculating , I sense that the problems are within the education system , but also outside of it too . There seems to be little in our society that is giving support to critical thinking and a plain old inquistiveness about the world . How the children are being let down . Just watch them , they are highly inquisitive and interested in things by their very nature .
We are assessing the pupils , right all good . How about the criteria of teaching reflect and concentrate on tried and tested basics .
When you are asking your pupils to work out whether they are male or female , critical race theory , b.s climate change maybe check the teachers . Totally agree with you both . Start clearing from the top down
Well said Sir.
Back in 1989 we where the best of education in the world. Now 34 years later we are falling behind the rest of the world. I saw myself the Impact of how crap now the education system is. We need to completely start again with a blank document. The NCEA Levels are really a weste of time honestly. The system doesn't really give you the basic knowledge to gain higher honours. You have to earn the right to get to Higher Education, we are failing people
Wow! How's that for a kick nthe pants wakeup call.
As a (cancelled) teacher who taught for over 15 years in elite schools in SE Asia, my goal in the classroom was always the pursuit of ‘objective’ truth, beauty and goodness…and although it involved some collaboration between myself and my students, I as the teacher was responsible for their learning, and consequently, led my students (after all I was further along the path towards the target than my students). If truth (and knowledge and reality) is not objective than why bother with education at all, especially if you are paying for it. Everyone can create their own truth. But our experience tells us that reality would eventually find us out and that would be a painful ‘educational outcome’. Trust me, gravity and the laws of thermodynamics are not social constructs…AND ultimate reality is personal, intelligent and morally good.
In NZ, boards of trustees are independent. They have the authority to create their own activities within the requirements of the national curriculum.
I watched an Australian program which pointed out the youth and the education system is aiming at office jobs, computer type of jobs, and similar jobs. People have started look down factory and the trades. The persons factory cannot get staff. The factory was started in 1960 by dad who immigranted to Oz. Now his son's staff are all about 60 years old and one is 72. His son went uni but after finishing his degree but chose his dad's factory to work in.
We don't have one. We have a series of indoctrination centers. They teach climate religion years before they start teaching science.
For some time various governments have wanted a worker drone mentality amongst most of the potential workforce.
We currently have a 16 year old in our care who at year twelve has two to three days a week involved in Maori tanga based education programs, not at our choice but by direction from the college dean’s who say he will be ok, yet at NCEA time he has attained 35 plus credits from these programs and 10 from curriculum learning……. See the problem here….
If he is in your care you should think of stopping this abuse dead in its tracks
Never fear, Te Pukenga is here!
The schools have asked for support material.
40% literacy! To pick apples, cherries etc....cleaning the planes , driving the rubbish truck, mowing grass, working at checkout, stacking shelves, driving a bus, serving coffee etc. What level of literacy is needed from the education factory?
Even the teachers can't distinguish simple words such as:
their, there, they're
to, too, two
your, you're
wear, we're, where
Nor do they know to correct "should of" to should've or should have; similarly with must & ought, not to mention the negative shouldn't've.
Teachers standards are dropping too
You forgot lose and loose.
..and condoning and using made up words like, versing,
@@juliusschwencke142
Had never heard that word before. Why did they find versus inadequate, I wonder ?
@@juliusschwencke142
Such a pity that they don't speak the languages of their great grandparents.
I recall having been at a seminar many years ago (1970s) where a guest speaker(BROWN) talked about NZ school students achievements fell in three groups ie (1) High achiever (above average), (2) average and (3) Low/failing achievers. The speaker was promoting the ideal future would still have three groups but that there would be significintly fewer higher achievers and failing low achievers the idea being that the majority of students would all be in the average group
Well, Brown was wrong.
50% of those attending NZ schools in the 2020s are functionally illiterate & thus well nigh unemployable, unable even to fill in the form for financial assistance.
@@traditionalfood367 Theory v reality was obvious even back then
@@lauriescott535 Indeed even back then it was clear that the situation would only get worse; in particular after the DPB came in in '75, before which (& for many years after) said situation was dealt with by streaming. I wonder when .that ended. Teaching more than two levels in a classroom is very inefficient, unless it's done the 19th century way. Not that that was ideal; it was simply the reality of the rural schoolhouse.
That’s darkly fascinating.
I agree totally. We have fallen behind international standards. New Zealand's future for young people is dismal internationally. I have taught at Chinese Universities in business subjects also in NZ.
Our students can not front up on any measure.
We cannot compete globally.
NCEA is a plonkers qualification.
Even westpac bank can't do proper accounting. In their kiwisaver graph they take fees from the contributions column instead of the balance column. So if you put 1k in and then stop eventually the contributions column will read zero.
The decline in educational achievement seems to coincide with two things.
1. The insistence on teaching all that useless Māori language and culture in NZ schools at the expense of the traditional ‘3Rs’ required to function in an increasingly connected and complex world.
2. The demise of placing kids in class, the pretence that every kid is a winner and more recently the trend for the pupils themselves to complain exams are too hard and homework is too much. Some of the subjects available for NCEA are just designed to make people feel good about themselves, when a more realistic view of their ability and achievements might actually spur them on to greater things as they compete against the others. Never been able to understand why it’s ok to give places in sport but not in academic subjects.
Nothing to do with Māori, Buster. Quite the opposite if you knew anything about language.
Oliver is right, take out the trash and rebuild the education system. Go back to reading, writing, math, literature, science (real science) and leave out the other twaddle. No wonder people home school.
You need a lab to teach real physics and chemistry
That was the case in the past. Nowadays online resources are remarkable. Besides at upper secondary school level, chemistry, botany, physics, geography, etc. camps are organised.
@@Eohippus100 Perhaps at the High School level. The problem is getting the basics of numeracy and literacy established in the first place. Nothing is going to work if you don't get these foundations settled.
@@jeffappleton926 I do agree but I was replying to the concept of home schooling right the way through
@@Eohippus100 no you can do lots of physics without a lab. And some chemistry.
My kiwis went from average at a Australian private school to top of class here . The kind of rigour and discipline you get there is just utterly foreign and I don’t think kiwis would stand for it
The new history curriculum is crap
Yea, it's the nonesense of Paulo Friere
Hello so unionized not a hope
OK, well if you look at the reasons offered for truancy, so much of it looks like (increasingly solo) Mums giving in to the excuses of their kids. But if one of those excuses is that school actually does suck, that only creates a feedback loop.
bullying and anxiety epidemic. So many had to withdraw kids from school because of the trouble school created for them and homeschool. That's why homeschooling has blossomed throughout the country also, not just covid related. Better a well alive at home kid than a dead or increasingly suicidal one
@@havilahfarm1591 Agreed. I was bullied a lot at intermediate school and no member of faculty gave a shiitake mushroom.
They were plenty ready to pounce when I wagged though.
All the mind-numbing woke bs aside, none of this gets fixed until someone has the guts to disempower the self-serving teachers' unions.
Tamaki college in Glen Innes under the current education system is on his way to USA to study in the medical field. An other boy has just won international competition about data.
The UK had an Assisted Places Scheme, to support students from low-income backgrounds to attend private schools. It was very successful, providing social mobility for many young people. The APS was also very beneficial for the UK, socially and economically. Sadly, the scheme was abolished by the Labour Government, after they won the 1997 election.
This is New Zealand.
Modecodled many pacey run education system they need Tobe taught how too behave from day one under the present reigned there is no hope
Phonics is effective
The rate of dyslexia among the prison population has always been sky high.
In this discussion was there a breakdown of staff grouped into subgroups?
Scary
Common sense
Logical Positivism has failed tamariki for decades.
Why do people keep interviewing this drop kick ? Does he do anything other than get interviewed?
Creativity coming later? nope, as Ken Robinson said - kids are born creative, schools kill it. This all depends on what is considered a "good education" ; I hear what Oliver is saying and I agree with a lot of it, but given where AI is leading, a future focused education system is not something that anyone truly understands except possibly that "humanity" and "caring" etc will become increasingly important and a lot of other things can be replaced by AI
I wish Oliver was not interrupted all the time by Sean. This is very bad manners.
Sorry but te reo is the only language kids need to learn in Aotearoa.
Makes them unable to function on the world stage English just recently overtook Mandarin as the most widely spoken language and you need to teach good English for the sake of your kids futures. Learning Maori is fine but should not be forced at the expense of the three Rs
Yup great for Haka & song...NOT for fixing a microwave, reading maori history, driving licence computer programming ,working out tide tables cooking recipe s, or understanding all human functions! whoops I feel SO whakama I cannot ask to get better!
😂
Well said