Battletech - how to build a lance
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- Опубліковано 27 сер 2019
- The history lesson of Battle Value and how to build a lance! Some tools and resources for the new player to understand the evolution of "game balance" in Battletech and some tools on how to make 2 balanced forces to battle each other.
Veteran Battletech players - what resources do you use? - Ігри
For the benefit of anyone watching this years later: Master Unit List now includes a Classic BattleTech Force Builder, located in the same dropdown menu as the Alpha Strike Force Builder. Enjoy!
It really does! Yay MUL!
how to balance a match, clan version:
-declare batchall on your opponent
-see the forces they have, proceed to flex and say you only need an inferior force to win
-if the opponent shares your superior clan mindset, keep bidding down until only one soldier with a stick is on each side.. then bid away the stick. Well bargained and done!
-if not, proceed to yell "you dare to refuse my batchall?". Go squish those dirty freebirth now!
Lol love it!
The composition of a Lance will largely depend on it's purpose and faction.
For example: A Steiner scout lance will often consist of 4 Atlases or other 100 ton mechs. After all, a scout must survive to deliver the intel they discover and an Atlas has a good chance to survive an encounter with the enemy.
makes logical sense to me
Unless of course bees enter the cockpit
Bees in mein cockpit!!!!
Steiner scout lance commander: Command ve have scouted ze enemy zey vere very surprised, and now zey are dead. commencing scouting of ze next location.
this joke never gets old :D
To be honest I think one of the biggest barriers for entry (outside of product availability) is the lack of a clear and concise reference to say "To get started with the board game you next x, y and z" or "To get started with the table top war game you need a, b and c". BattleTech is its own worst enemy in many ways, and for many of those in the know it is understandable when you consider its storied history as a franchise.
Personally I think the game is relatively welcoming with rule sets that offer scalability along with the option for progression into progressively more complex/in-depth rule variants. Further to this BattleTech is a living, breathing universe unlike others I could name which remain stagnant to this day.
Its a fair point. I think for newer gamers, btech seems very fragmented and arcane to set up your "army"
Check "Battletech fan" channel essentials video. What you need to play tabletop. There are other materials that are not essential. To play.
I am wanting to get into Battletech again, after being very casually involved years back- the constantly out of stock boxed sets is making it hard.
@@DanielRand Last time I checked Barnes and Noble had it with normal price.
I am trying to get into the game after playing a few games in the late 80s then walking away for 30 years. It’s pretty challenging. It’s a “game system” closer to D&D than to most other minis games. You use the system to design your own game. If you are interested enough, you can do lots of cool things with the battle system. But to pick it up and play a Saturday afternoon game, you have a LOT of decisions to make before you can play.
coming from 40k im really liking the fact you can actually use any mechs you want and just tweak the Pilot skill level and accuracy to fit the point value of the game.
40k was similar in its first few editions.
Players could just make whatever they wanted for the most part
if you can find a copy of rogue trader (1st ed 40k), they had a list of base stats/points by race and a list of point cost to improve individual stats. you could completely customize each member of a squad.
@@bruced648 not just that. All the games equipment and wargear was listed out too, with rules detailing how to make vehicles of almost any kind.
Most importantly, Rick Priestley made it clear that his rules were guidelines for players to adapt for their own uses, opposed to this authoritarian tournament based BS they completely focus on now.
In the words of Andy Chambers "40k should remain a galaxy sized sandpit for players to exercise and express their imaginations, not get straighjacketed into a chess board for tournament play"
@@colossalsquib4450 you are preaching to the choir! I own 1st and 2nd ed rules. I made the mistake of picking up 9th ed. 20 pages of game mechanics in a 300+ page book that promotes mini's painting. literally- nothing of use or value for my $65. I'll be selling it on ebay soon. what a waste of money.
unless you are a top tier tournament player or only playing in a GW store, the color schemes and unit structure should be what you want. even having mixed forces - if that's how you want to play. I'll stick to the games original concept - small unit combat!
The best way in the early 90s that we came up with was. You get 240 tons to pick or build mechs. Inner sphere had to field 4 mechs, clan 5. The 240 tons was based on a 4 mech lance 2 at 75 tons, 1 at 55 tons and, 1 at 35 tons. We found this to make well balanced games and it kept the clan guys from rolling everyone.
Thats a good system!
That's the same thing my high school group did.
to quote Tex of the BPL "you play tonnage V tonnage? shame on you , shame"
@@SSGTWinters fr tho my guy
Tonnage, ew. Esp IS vs clan sane Tonnage, super ew.
Sarna is the best source to date for Btech, those guys are dedicated and committed. J
They really are!
Currently in a MechWarrior game. We as a group decided that arbitrarily setting balance by BV or C-Bills missed the entirety of how life operates. Instead, we went with a more verisimilitude accurate method: the "GM" presents contracts to take, allows us to negotiate on pay/salvage, and we field what we feel appropriate. We've dropped a double assault lance to deal with a single light lance; we've dropped a triple light lance to deal with a Steiner scout lance. And the C-Bills fall where they may. Yes, we've dropped so that our take didn't even cover transport, drop, and repair costs. We've also made so many "unbalanced" drops, we bought a WarShip. Because that's cool, and we could afford it. The merc company has been running for over a decade in game and the original company members are all rich and just "run" the company and don't drop (except the one crazy a-hole that's a true murder-hobo). Not saying this way is the best by any means, it requires tons of bookkeeping. And unless your players are "good" at the game, it can seem really unfair, especially early on. It works for us so I thought I'd share.
I rely dig this. Great idea. And thanks for sgaring it here, Im sure others seeing this inspires others to do something similar!
Capitalism: the unknown ideal by Jerome Blake
It is always nice to put in a bit of flavor of why your company or lance is dropping I agree. But BC or C-Bills does matter if you are going to fighting another player. If the GM playing the opposing force, you can fudge but if another player/friend, It needs to be fair or at least balanced fight. Otherwise someone will not have fun. So I agree that having a reason for fight is great but balance either BV (Battle Value) or C-Bills. I personally like to match a Steiner Scout lance with 9 Lances of UrbanMechs just to make things fair...HA. Actually did this in a scenario and it was glorious. Later.
Playing by C-Bill has been my way. But there is something I think a lot of people miss. BattleTech has been driven by the lore. Something like WH20K is a minis game drawing their history from a line that goes back to Kriegsspiel which was a training tool for Prussian army officers. BattleTech draws more from a history that includes RPGs. The Clans mopped the floor with the Sphere troops when you play by weight, and it got fixed with BV abtout the time . There wasn't a plan, but the game modelled the lore, it had to change to fit the story.
I think what everyone forgets is there's actually 3 sets of tech (If not more), you have 3025 which we called Battletech era, Lost tech which is star league era stuff, and Clan era stuff. we went by tonnage, Clan was X1 multiplier, Lost tech was x1.5 multiplier and battletech era was x2 multiplier and any armour infantry was .5 multiplier, seemed to work well. Then we got into a campaign/narrative game and it was a blast, it went on for years. i think what really hurt Battletech was that stupid lawsuit against the Robotech people on models and the way models were then put on those weird bases, lost its way to mod.
I'm getting into Battletech and I've had so many questions about tabletop. After watching this video, I can gladly say that I have slightly fewer questions!
Thank you for the video. It's a great entry point on the basics of Battle Value and a picture well-painted in broad strokes. I'm looking forward to learning more about this game.
Glad I could help! Thanks for watching!
I think my favorite 3025-tech lance combination to date was a Medium skirmisher lance:
Phoenix Hawk
Large Laser variant Wolverine
Griffin
Dervish
We were fast enough, durable enough, and armed enough to overpower anything lighter and escape/harass anything heavier. Our greatest threat was a similar lance.
Thats a sweet lance!
Id say a good way to make a lance is to use assualt mechs. Need a scout? Assualt mech. Heavy hitters or shooter? Assualt. Missile boats or snipers? Assualt. Yes im a fan of house steiner, how did you know
I played Wizkidz Mech Warrior, but was a tween, early teen when it was cancelled. I've since gotten into Star Wars X-Wing 1.0 and 2.0, as well as Star Wars Armada. Those now definitely seem like stepping stones up to this game that I've been avoiding, as I knew I would dump money into it immediately upon starting. Which I have.... no regrets as I'm eager to yet play my first game! This paired with local players has been very informative. Thank you good sir
My pleasure, Im glad you found it valuable!
Holy shit that tex impression was spot on
Love the Tex impression LOL!
Hahaha thank you! I've been considering doing an entire episode / video in his voice and mannerisms but not sure how well that would go over! 🤣
@@CrankyOldGamer maybe ask him first? I bet he'd be flattered, but asking first is probably the safest bet.
@@randomnetsurfer totally!
I'm totally new to Battletech (I have played just about every Mechwarrior game on PC, though :D) and this information was really helpful.
I'd *love* to have that spreadsheet!
The I'm making my force is that I bought a star of clan heavy mechs (one box) :P
I haven't even got the rules or anything, but that's because I'd rather have them on paper and they're kind sold out from everywhere here in Finland.
But great video!
Great overview. Back in ‘87 we chose one light, one medium, one heavy, and one assault. That worked well. When 1990 rolled around and the Clans came to ruin the game we stopped playing. I kept buying the boxed sets and supplements. Just started actually playing again recently. Been playing the games on computer all along. To be honest the whole Unseen thing really stopped us from coming back more than the Clans. Project Phoenix... I was so excited when that was coming in the mail... sorry for rambling. The reason the Clans were such a problem is people who played them didn’t want to follow the rules. Ergo no balance. Great video! Liked and subscribed.
Hey thank you so much, and thanks for watching! We often did the same back in those days - we'd typically go 1 light, 2 mediums, and a heavy and take it from there. No apology necessary - we're coming from the same place. I had very similar experiences.
The problem of the clans was the technology and inherent better skills. Pulse and ER Laser devalued movement modifiers and LRMs without minimum range added to that. These are just some examples same with Lost Tech 2750. The Mechs and vehicles from the first 2 technical readouts were imperfect but that was the actual challenge of the game. After that, it degraded to a slugfest.
The way it was supposed to work is that Clans never fight with their full force, they bid with their peers for the lowest amount of combat power they feel is necessary to win the fight. If you play with friends, that's completely fine and will lead to some really interesting games, but for general play it's a terrible idea :D
It's interesting how so many newbie battletech guides turn into history lessons. I understand nostalgia but newbies just want to know the answers. Not knocking you brother it's just strange that people don't realize how to teach newbies.
When there isn't a straight answer, but a buffet of options, it is fair to explain them all.
@@owlsayssouth And sometimes you can't give a simple, "one-size fits all" answer. Context is always important.
I enjoyed the history lesson
@@owlsayssouth Thats all well an good but i kinda zoned out and now we're at spreadsheet?! I don't wanna mess about with spreadsheets an tools.
I agree. This video is not newbie friendly. Too complex.
Clanner vet returning after a break: screw balancing, be a Chad and include bidding in every game
YES! Bid for your opponents miniatures!!!
Clan units work in a Star which is 5 mechs. Inner sphere units use 4 mechs as a lance
Yes indeed - a star is 5 "points" - a point could be a mech, or a unit of elementals, as far as I understand it.
By the way, I would also really appreciate the other video you mentioned about how to build a good lance (choosing mechs, making your lance balanced, etc.)
Can do! I think in my next couple of videos, I'm going to suggest a few "next mechs" to get, as well as, here's some pretty decent lances at certain Battle Value levels, is that what you're looking for?
Cranky Old Gamer those sound great! My collection so far is a few of the Alpha Strike lance packs and one of the new beginner boxes. Working up to the regular box set!
The Steiner Scout lance: 4 Atlas mechs with heavy weapons leadout.
YES!
good thing beong, you don't need to change a thing when its time for assault duty!
This helped me thank you. Decided to go with a Hollander BZK-F3 with Gunnery 2 Piloting 4 for our 1500 BV Under 60 ton, Clan Invasion era practice game
Awesome! Im glad you enjoyed it and thanks for watching!
c-bills are the Comstar currency. I still use this method. starting unit size of a company and 50 mil c-bills. while that seems like alot, when you buy the vehicles, personnel, supplies and transport... those funds get used up quickly. when playing a continuing campaign, it becomes an important tactic to damage for salvage or capture instead of blowing up ammo or fusion engines.
for one-shot games, bv is probably the better method for unit design.
personally, I don't believe in balanced and fair play. I'll stick to the c-bills.
Cool! I honestly never used the C-Bill method but it does seem like the most real, "in-game" variant of "balance". If you can afford it then get it. And you're right - its way more than the mech costs. Once you start adding up drop ship transport, maintenance, salaries, replacements, etc etc etc it starts adding up FAST!
@@CrankyOldGamer heard the issue with Cbills is that prices don't change when moving to later eras where older tech should have become cheaper compared to the newer gear. Instead oudated mechs and equipment stay the same price through their entire history, which can create some issues apparently
I'm listening to this while working on art, at 3:25 I had to pause what I was doing because I heard Tex. Turns out you were just imitating him but you did a great job
Hahaha thanks! Perhaps the Tex impression will make another appearance soon!
Hey, when you were looking at the thunderbolt, and couldn't figure out why it wasn't listed with the succession wars symbol/time frame, is because while it is a star league era mech, it is also present /leftover during the succession wars. a lot of the record sheets from the CGL succession wars pdf from them have star league symbols on them too.
Oooh really good point, thank you!
Great idea with the Excel sheet. I had a similar one, but your's gave me some ideas to improve upon on it.
I now have a list with all unit variants available to me, including their type ('Mech, infantry, vehicle etc), tonnage and BV. This is is sorted by type>tonnage>name (but can be sorted every other way as well).
Besides that, I created an area with 36 'slots' that consists of three drop down menues per slot: one fed by the units name list and one for gunnery and piloting each. These together form then the modified BV (name is referenced to base BV) and all valid modified BV values are then calculated together to a total force value. You only have to make sure, that all invalid values are automatically converted to 0 to make your live easier in this step.
My buy/paint status for the units is color based.
If we ever change eras, I can easily add another column for availibility of the units
This is complemented with a .pdf that I assembled from all my TROs to only include the units I own, so I can find them faster.
That is awesome, glad you found the spreadsheet useful and sounds like you made it even better!
Really enjoyed this video. Thanks, was very helpful
Thank you! Im glad you enjoyed it!
You made a typo!
The Clan “Star” is comprised of 5 mechs not 4.
Gah! I think I even said it right!
5 points. This is why it is called a star.
@@Battletechfan I know each "point" of the star is one mech, but is it the same for infantry and armor? Or do stars of smaller units use multiple tanks/soldiers/etc for each point?
@@David_Fellner The number of units in a Point varies depending on what kind of unit we're talking about. A Point consists of one 'mech, two aerospace fighters, two combat vehicles, five elementals or twenty-five conventional infantry. Members of a point are Warriors commanded by a Point Commander. All mechwarriors are in command of their one-man Point, so mechwarrior is equivalent to Point Commander.
Five points make up a Star, commanded by a Star Commander. All points of a Star will be made up of the same type of unit. A Binary consists of two Stars, commanded by a Star Captain. Typically, the two Stars in a Binary match types. A Nova is a mixed-type binary, typically 1 Star of Mechs and 1 star of Elementals. Novas are usually commanded by senior Star Commanders, with Coyote and Hell's Horses having an official rank of Nova Commander. From there it gets messy.
@@David_Fellner Having 5 point lances seems very clanish. Clans have one of a kind culture and instead of strategizing to optimize results, they get more honor by having disadvantage and winning. A 5 star lance is quite a disadvantage.
Search "retrovision formations and threat zones". A 5 star formation does not allow to group in pairs and does not allow a finger 4 "schwarm" formation. In a way it is similar to the 3 point "vickers" formation used by the brits in 1940 that had flexibility disadvantages.
If you want to test custom mechs you may like to play Mechwarrior 2. "Battletech fan" channel has some videos on how to install them. Check video description, all resources you need are there. Mechwarrior 2 games are surprisingly good to customize mechs and they offer very cool gameplay. Only problem is aged graphics but if you think you are piloting miniatiures in a diorama things will be suddenly Ok. These games offer some lore text and gameplay is action packed. Development was rushed and Activision management was messy so physical attacks are not there. But many advanced rules are in place.
There are very few things that depart from lore here and there, like a mission with a force field, for example. But I forgive them.
Ghost Bear Legacy was not made by the same team and you can tell because menus are not that cool and even some voices are different. Mercenaries development was messy too so it was very buggy, but the video shows how to install the patch. There might still be some bugs here and there so just save your game after every mission.
At the time of release these games had cutting edge graphics and sound and the atmosphere they bring is so cool.
Later games may have better graphics but music is not so cool and environments feel too much like an Earth setting, and even light mechs are hard to pilot (I find annoying that a bushwacker feels like a heavy with light armor in MW3) and your aiming skills do not matter.
Also Mechwarrior 2 missions show some variety. Other games are about look for mechs, destroy them, destroy ground target. Very repetitive.
Mechwarrior 2 allows first person experience that will make your tabletop experience more rich.
I've been around the game for ...ever . I have seen various comp rules . The 50% rule is the one I like the most , where the lance or army consists of 50% med or heavy units , to depict the rarity of assault and light mechs.
Thats a great idea, keeping heavies and assaults more rare.
Is that 50% of the physical number of mechs or 50% of the total BV? (I assume physical mechs, but wanted to be sure)
@@colbyboucher6391 ...to depict the rarity of assault mechs in contrast to the more common light mechs.
I disagree. If you have to face clans you better bring your Atlas with AMS and Arrow IV escorted by a Stalker. Send Atlas to soften targets. Stalker will try to reach the Atlas. Enemies will go for the Atlas. Once enemies are at medium range, unleash Stalker on the enemies circling the Atlas. Stalker is a better escort than another Atlas.
Do you really think light mechs are "rare"? They're more likely the most common mechs employed in the Inner Sphere and especially the Periphery. I'd bet Locusts and Commandos are more plentiful than your typical medium oar heavy, for instance.
good video. great tex impression!
Hahaha thanks! Maybe "Tex" will make an appearance again "soon"! :D
I both ran Mechwarrior and played it a lot back in the 90s.
The best lance setup I found was one close-in unit, preferably an assault. Two long-range, heavy mechs work well here. And a scout that has a good solid punch.
I would use a Victor, two Archers, and a Panther. Those four can shred an opposing unit pretty well. The archers make the enemy have to wade through LRM20 missile swarms to get to you, then they have Victor's autocannon pounding into already damaged armor. The Panther does the run-around and they have to choose to take a PPC in the back armor or turn to try and hit this small quick mech while the three others tear them to pieces.
I came close to wiping out whole parties when they played my game.
Thanks for the video. I'm getting back into BT after 30+ years. I still have my 2nd edition boxed set of BattleTech: AGoAC, my CityTech boxed set, MechWarrior 2nd edition, and TRO:3025. I just picked up the new boxed set of AGoAC and am eager to see how the game has evolved since I last played. I'm also interested in learning how to play Alpha Strike.
Battletech is almost identical to how it was back then, so hopefully the learning curve is short! And thank you for watching!
New player here: super useful stuff! Would love to see a video on good beginner lances.
Great idea!
It depends on what i want the lance to do. My go to battle lance is a thunderbolt, Centurion, shadow hawk, and enforcer. The first three can fight at most ranges and the enforcer can hammer on a hill and then switch out for trading as needed. While my assault lance is a orion, a warhammer, a hammerhands, and a modded marader with a ac20 and ether 4 medium lasers or 4 medium pulse depenant on the era. Which just marchs down the line smashing any thing and everything that trys to stop it. Or my support lance which is a catapult, a crab, a hunchback and a talos. This lance stays at range hammer as things come. The hunchback and the talos even engage rushers but the cat and crab can defend them selves pretty well.
In general, military combat I always felt a 5 man squad was best given the ability to equally strike both sides and depending on the movement of the enemy you can reinforce with that 5th unit as the other 2 hit the rear.
I use megamek to design my lances. They also have a create random lance tool that works really great.
Oooh I should try that - good pointer!
As a fellow old school battlemech player, I use lances based on relative tonnage based on purpose. (I'll have to be like the cool kids and try BV someday, but this is the default.) Within a given lance range, tonnage is balanced by category, and a +/- 20 ton difference isn't unbalanced. If you get to 40 tons of discrepancy, someone is outclassed and needs help badly! Assuming a lance of four types of mech in a Succession Wars setting, here's how I do it.
Recon Lance: The fast movers for scouting, spotting targets for the fire lance, swatting the light non-mech opposition, and annoying the enemy fire lance. A weight of 140 tons is the mean, usually two mediums and two bug mechs. It can go down to 105 tons (Cranston Snord's recon lance) or up to 150 tons.
Strike Lance: This is a step up from the recon lance. A strike lance can do some scouting, but it's really used for skirmishing, doing a fast assault on a non-hardened target, and harassing the enemy fire lance. They weigh in at 160-180 tons, depending on available mech types. Usually you get a mix of medium mechs with the higher-tonnage light mechs, with maybe one heavy. Four 55-ton mediums are the ceiling here, weighing in at 210 tons, which would make it a baby assault lance.
Fire Lance: The fire lance has mechs which favor LRM armament. It brings the long-range damage, softening up targets for other lances, or finally deigning to do close combat when the enemy lance is in tatters from the steel rain. The common composition is three LRM-lobbers and a light for indirect fire spotting. Tonnage here is fairly open, since a lance with a Griffon, two Whitworths, and a Locust is a nice budget 155 tons, a Centurion-two Trebuchets-Spider is respectable 180 tons, and a Catapault-two Archers-Valkyrie is a bring-the-pain 235 tons!
Command Lance: the command lance is naturally the unit for the company commander. It is the unit reserve, either delivering an assault after the other lances have weakened the foe, or as the final defense if the enemy attacks in strength. The command lance usually has two heavies belonging to the commander and his guard/enforcer, so weight will be up there! The other mechs could be light, medium, or heavy depending on company resources and preferred mission type. Usually you get something in the 220-250 ton range depending on lance composition. A battalion or regiment command lance is more like an assault lance than the standard company one, since there will be a couple of assaults to guard the major/colonel who will have a heavy or an assault mech. In this case 240 tons is the low end, up to 300 or more tons!
Assault Lance: The assault lance is the fullback of battlemech combat. Sometimes the only good play is straight up the middle, and that is the job of the assault lance. Assault lances lead the breakthrough, or the breakout. This is where the heaviest of the heavy mechs and the assault mechs shine. 320 tons is a good average for an assault lance.
Thumbs up just for the tex impression, was not half bad
Hahaha thanks!!!!
My first lance is going to be based on the opening intro cut scene from Mechcommander, so it's way below the average weight/BV, but it's gonna be nostalgic and cool :)
Rule of cool > minmax every day
@@CrankyOldGamer 3 urbies and also 3 urbies in a trenchcoat masqarading as an assault mech
@@TheR00karrow IV would like to know your location moment
Great info thx
You bet thanks for watching!
I am new here, my previous war games was flames of war, building a force can't be any worse then that. Got the clan invasion box and the beginners box (tryna get agoac) these vids are great!
Awesome! So glad you're here! Any questions or suggestions for other content just let me know!
FoW you have to be a psychic. I swear Battleground use house rules and forgets to tell everyone until they make ruling that confuses everyone
Great video!
Would you consider making a video(s) on which mechs work well in a Lance in different environments (jungle, urban. desert, etc.)?
Thank you! Ive been considering doing a lance composition video, Ill put that on the list!
As a total scrub in BT I would suggest:
Jungle: No Snipers
Urban: Bring Jumpjets
Desert: Avoid Energy Boating
As far as i have observed the HBS game on PC and as I'm trying to get more on the tabletop these ideas hold water more often than not
buiding a lance in the video game is a lot more tricky because its very dependent on what you can salvage, find or buy.
As a rule though, i tend to like 1x scout which is often something like a wolverine, armed with a UAC-5 and SRM-6. good firepower good speed good jump. 2x direct fire, this could be paired marauders, or 1 marauder and something like a highlander. and 1 firesupport, either catapult, archer or a stalker with 4x lrm 15's or 3x lrm 20's. IF i have access to a raven, it will often flip around to 2 marauders, 1 highlander and the raven...
In some cases i might go with a heavy brawler, King crab, Atlas, highlander, highlander. or atlas, highlander, highlander, stalker missile varient.
love how the jenner is the leggy boi still
Hello and thank you for the very informative video! I woulda liked to know how it works in terms of models though especially with the variants. When is it ok to use the same model for a different variant and when should you have another? For instance I assume that 2 variants of a Mech armed the same are probably represented by the same model, but what about different loadouts, is there one mech model available per loadout, because I noticed that some variants wear very different weapons?
My start is an annihilator sniper, 4 gauss rifles and 4 medium pulse lasers.
2 timber wolfs with all their fun.
And 2 kitfox snipers, with a gauss rifle, and a medium pulse laser.
You can also use BVs battle values. If u want a challenge, use two heavies, two mediums with Lotsa terrain some of these mechs are jumpjetted
I use the roster feature of the Mech Factory app. I can make a lance and add in pilot skill and get BV. I can even DL and print the record sheets from there.
Thats a great source. Since making this, Master Unit List's Total Warfare Builder has gotten a lot better. Ive been using that. Ill check out your suggestion as well!
I'm just getting back into this game after having played Mech Warrior Online in the 1990's. So I'm like a kid in a candy store and have already bought a Battalion worth of minis in a few short weeks, and still want to buy more. I kind of have that Completionist streak in me when I get into a game (ask me about my 200+ ship fleet of A&A minis). So, I'm a bit of the Odd Man Out when it comes to putting together a Lance. My primary data point is...speed, followed by class. In a real world universe, Great Houses wouldn't be counting battle points; they'd be thinking about grouping mechs in Lances that can keep up with each other. Operationally a 54kph mech is going to be left in the dust by a 120kph mech, or the light mech's speed will be wasted in order to act as an escort to the ponderous lance-mate. Class wise, I like 3 lights led by a medium but with the same speed, the medium providing firepower to the typical lance of all lights. Even within the same class (say Mediums) I look for lances that can move at 86kph instead of having one or two that slows the whole lance down to 64kph.
The other thing I look for is versatility of weapons within a lance: Does the Lance as a whole have the ability to engage effectively at all ranges? I try not to have a Lance with a blind spot that way, with either no short range weapons or no long range weapons. That is a weakness that you're just asking an opponent to exploit. Second of all, is there diversity within the Lance between energy weapons versus ammo fed weapons? I always want to avoid creating a Lance of all missile boats that have next to no weapons after the ammo runs out. In the opposite vein, I want to avoid an over-reliance on energy weapons that reduces the Lance's rate of fire to avoid over-heating (unless I can fight in Minnesota where there is always a handy lake to step into nearby).
I am a completionist too - I have to fight the urge to have every singl3 mech for every faction!
When creating a classic BattleTech list I also use a spreadsheet. I am intimately familiar with Master unit list and sarna. I have spend a little bit too much time in those systems to not be familiar with them. I am the 1 chiefly responsible in my playgroup to instigate playing a game and therefore have taken on the default role of force organizer. The people I play with or a little bit lazy in their approach to playing period and use the outdated metric or scale of tonnage. That is one of the hazards of playing with my family who have been playing the game for over 30 years and were brought up in that environment
Ive been using Master Unit List more and more for list creation. Its quite good. I havent fully retired my spreadsheet though
"I made my own spread sheet" haha awsome
I actually realized lately I can do all of this on Master Unit List, so while my spreadsheet is great for tracking what Ive painted, its superfluous wrt adding up points for units
@@CrankyOldGamer cool.
I'm using the Master Unit List to build my force. Under the mech listing where can I see what each mechs weapons are.
Is there a tutorial on how to build the spreadsheet? I wasn’t able to see any links for it.
I would use the MUL (Master Unit List) wich is a free, online tool, and choose a set BV (Battle Value) and construct a lance based off the era we wanted to play. the farther down the timeline, the more complex the mechs become. We usually keep it Succession Wars or earlier for learning games.
Totally agree. I think new players keeping it to 3025 Inner Sphere and earlier and even medium mechs and heavy mechs would be ideal. Light mechs might make it feel a bit to hard to hit in the beginning and less "stompy" and fun. Whats your thoughts on initial mechs to play?
Cranky Old Gamer anything from the Game of Armored Combat box set can make for a good game. But I agree with your assessment, medium/heavys. 5000 bv makes for some good choices.
Also... The game I'm planning to run soon, I'm just going to say "no XL engines". That's where a lot of the clan mech power comes from. Most inner sphere mechs don't have XL, but almost all clan mechs DO. XL us also the primary modifier to the cbill cost, because it almost exactly doubles the unit's money cost.
Depends on the era. When you're playing clan invasion and later era mechs, most IS mechs have XL engines and endo steel and things like that as well. In Dark Age and later a lot of them even have clan grade equipment.
The best thing about introducing the clans is you make the game shorter, because with the same BV, you have fewer mechs, which have the same armor, but much more firepower than same tonnage mechs of the non-clan variety.
Urgh, balance. This is why I liked "Objective-based" games more than the Free for All games that most seem to play. I recommend checking out any of the Chaos Campaign books to find a good long term way to build a force.
Back when I played regularly we used Solaris Skunk Werks. Easy to find mechs and variants, tweak things to make your own versions or even start from scratch with your own design. Set all your weapons, armor allocations, crit slots. Easy to print off mech sheets that it generated for you too almost identical to the catalyst ones.
I wish I could find a mobile app similar. I've tried a couple, but they're either limited in overall design or by limitations set by in app purchases. Id be happy to pay for a good one, but I'd have to know it does what I need it to beforehand. So if you have any recommendations I'm all ears, otherwise I'll have to dust off an old laptop for dedicated Skunk Werks usage.
Have you looked at MegaMek? I dont think they have a mobile version but Ive used it and its pretty solid on desktop.
@@CrankyOldGamer no, these days about the only thing I'm able to spend any time on the comp is taxes lol. And if I'm using one for battletech stuff I was pretty happy with SSW. If I get a chance I'll take a look at megamek...but itd take a good deal to change (either megamek being that much better than SSW or SSW having tanked since I last used it).
Great information. I am new to the game and I am going to a game in a few weeks. I am ordering a couple minis to paint. I don’t have any rule books. Is there a place I can print out a mech sheet? I want to be prepared and to have a mech sheet for each of my mechs I think will be helpful. Thanks!
The best place to easily get any mech sheet you want is flechs sheets. Just google that term, will take you straight there.
@@CrankyOldGamer ok, thanks. I will look there. I am thinking instead of just buying some Mechs to just get the box set. It comes with the sheets and 8 plastic mechs. It has the sheets for those Mechs as well. But, thanks for the info. I am going to pick up one or two more and the matching mech sheets might not be included in the box set, so this will help.
Where's the likn to your Excel sample? I have one but would like to compare mine to yours. One thing mine has is, instead of an "X" I enter a number, of how many of that mech I want. and it calculates the total BV for that mech type, and I have another column that shows me how many minis I have for that mech, and that number drops as I add them (so I have 6 Griffin minis, if I take 2 Griffins, my available column will drop to 4). One thing I don't have is the Pilot/Gunner modifier.
I the clan tech helped speed up the game as the lethality went up significantly. Not to mention more customizability.
Absolutely. You can burn through 12k+ battle value in clan tech with very few mechs and about 1/2 the time it takes for a Inner Sphere game of about 1/2 the battle value.
Usually a 4point stars are, one heavy, one medium, and two light mechs, then mix it up, like in this photo here...
you did have one type o clan ( star) is 5 mechs not 4. was a Fasa rep back in the day , 92 thru 95.
Yes good catch - a Clan Star is 5 mechs!
@@CrankyOldGamer Star having 5 points
Wait, so higher pilot skill = lower battle value? I feel like I missed something, but couldn't find the spot in the video that I missed.
Do lower numbers mean higher skill/easier rolls?
Thats correct! So think of it this way - high numbers on pilot and gunnery skills are bad, low numbers are good. The reason for that is that number is the BASE number you need to roll on 2d6 to hit a target or pass a oiloting check. Nearly every modifier to hit ADDS to tgat number. Example: youre in a mech thats running (+2 modifier if youre running) and the target is running anf moves say 6 hexes (another +2). Youre firing a medium laser at it, from 7 hexes away, which is long range for a medium laser, so thats another +4 to hit. So now youre at dice +8. So if youre gunnery 4, you take 4 (your skill) and add your midifers (8) and thats the number you have to roll on 2d6 to hit. So yes - thats a 12 on 2d6. Thats a tough shot. If youre gunnery 2 (an elite veteran), you start at 2 and add 8 so need a 10 or higher. Still hard but not as bad. Make sense? Battletech is all about "managing the modifiers)".
@@CrankyOldGamer Yep, that makes perfect sense. Thanks
Each gunnery skill level makes about 9% chance of hitting target. Higher gunnery skill means less chance of hitting as it makes your GATOR higher.
Look. This is all opinion. What you do is, first you need a Charger, which is the most glorious mech in the galaxy, and then you put a C3 in it, and then you DFA all the filthy clanners and teach them that they are merely wayward children playing at war ... OR, you die with honor for the Combine, which is just as good or possibly even better. Oh, and almost as important - you have to bring PPCs. Lots of PPCs on your Catapult, on your Dragon, on your Panther, on your tanks - this will insure maximum glory in combat. THIS is how you build a lance.
YOU WIN THE COMMENTS SECTION FOR THIS VIDEO!!!1!
@@CrankyOldGamer banza... I mean, thanks
For clanners I use Atlas with AMS and Arrow IV and whatever else you can fit inside, and a Stalker as escort. Stalker will only attack those who attack Atlas. Atlas can attack whoever it wants. Stalker is more dangerous as escort than people think, and it is even better than other Atlas as long as you keep your firepower to unleash in an alpha strike at mid range instead of firing as you get close. If you can put a pilot with better gunnery skill that makes a killer.
@@aquarius5719 Nice. which Stalker variant do u run? or what build
@@konsyjes Stalker
2x LRM10 (24 shots)
2x Large laser
4x Medium laser
2x SRM6 (30 shots)
I’ve been playing 3 gunnery 4 piloting on every mech just to keep it standard.
Yeah I find it makes the games run a LOT faster too - which I'm super ok with.
I've been going with 4 gunnery and 5 pilot. I've been wondering if going 3 gunnery would make the game go a bit faster. Does it make it too easy to hit things? What's been your experience?
@@kahldris1228 I can't go back to 4/5. 3/4 goes so much faster without making things feel unbalaced or too fast. Way more fun IMHO.
@@kahldris1228 I made calculations and with 4/5 about half the shots will miss. What I do to speed up the game is to have many pairs of colored dice. I have 4 colors so I can make 4 rolls at once. I also use dice for GATOR. That saves paper and the kinestetic experience is better. I have like 70 colored dice. Going for 3/4 will make the game more like a deterministic game of chess. Not good if you have newbies and experts in the same game. So I prefer the multiple rolls to speed game.
What mech is that on the right?
I assume you mean from the image at the very beginning of the vid - that is a Locust from A Game of Armored Combat boxed set.
which product would you recommend to get started with Battletech ? there are so many options.
Get the box called "A Game of Armored Combat". Has everything you need. If you love it you can expand from there. Ping me here if you have any questions!
@@CrankyOldGamer will do, thanks !
MUL is a good source.
So for my first lance I want a Battlemaster, Thunderbolt and 2 Shadowhawks. Thoughts?
Is this for a good all-roinder lance? If so, to me, the Battlemaster and Tbolt are great. Keep those. Im personally not a huge fan of the shadowhawk. Its a bit pillowfisted, and armor isnt great. For a similar sized mech, Id go Wolverine hands down every time over a SH. I think its even cheaper too if memory serves. If you like SH you can certainly keep them for rule of cool though. If it were me building an all rounder lance Id swap the SHs with a Wolverine and a Jenner.
depends on the Shadowhawk variants. The jump capable t-bolt and Kurita style Shadowhawks blend well. It will focus on energy as you main long range punch with the Battle master as CQC brawling. Also pull the extra ton of SRM ammo out of the stock Battlemaster and drop the machine guns (if going straight anti mech) for extra heatsinks. lowers the mechs chance to blow shy high with a lucky ammo hit.
The absolute killer when we do not need speed is Atlas with AMS and Arrow IV and whatever else fits inside, and a Stalker in stock configuration as escort. Send Atlas as bait to soften enemies, and as enemies jump on the Atlas as Stalker reaches medium range, unleash Stalker on enemies, take the heat and let Atlas finish the job while Stalker is cooling down, then unleash Stalker again.Stalker is way better than having another Atlas as escort. Even big clan mechs have problems with that combination.
@@CrankyOldGamer Jenner F will wreck any light mech and most mediums. Got plenty of points with this chassis in my Mechforce U.K. days.
This is great information! I would love to get a copy of those spreadsheets! Are you planning to share them or post a link somewhere?
I sure can. Watch this space. I'll make a copy and make it public.
@@CrankyOldGamer Awesome! Thank you so much!
Try this spreadsheet - if you copy both tabs, it should work?
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/14KoXQdrd6Ref3VRBIi9-XHDryzeoAAqBd-cCWwWpO00/edit#gid=0
I always deploy STARS!
Can i make a lance with mechs from IS and clan together?
By the rules - sure. Nothing is limiting you. By lore/fluff - I think that wpuld be highly unusual. But I could see in 3052 Clan Invasion era Inner Sphere techs have salvaged a clan mech and added it to their ranks. However, I would say discuss with your opponent and see if you can craft a story around it.
MegaMek. Best way to manage lances...
master unit list is worth less if your not play alpha strike since it doesnt let you see the rec sheet
Am I the only player who uses a lances tonnage equivalent of infantry, track vehicles, hover vehicles, aerospace, and battleships rather than mechs'?
Nope. I have a lot of friends who run campaugns totally on tonnage
There is a typo in this video. So far I am enjoying the information but a "Star" in clan speak is a 5 mech lance not 4 mechs as shown in your video.
Yep - my bad! Stars are 5 mechs.
@@CrankyOldGamer it happens
My mercenary lance: 1 panther, 1 vindicator, 2 valkyries.
Everybody laughs till they start jumping around and stay at long range till the first enemy is dead and the rest damaged. Then the fun starts
Hey, I'm an idiot who fell off thr turnip truck into a pile of Clan Mechs and an "A Game of Armored Combat" box, where do I find stats for my Timber Wolves and Elementals?
How hard is it to join an established battle tech group ??
Depends - you have to put yourself out there and express interest, and be willing to abide by the group norms to make a seat at the table ingratiate yourself and be a cool player and you'll invariably get invited back! But Ive personally found the btech community very open and welcoming. Good luck in finding a group!
Video starts at 12:09
Why do you choose to have Kurita mechs? I haven't read much of the lore admittedly but Kurita seem like they're the perma-villains.
They are easy villains to be sure. Back in the very early days they werent quite as "warcrimes inc" as they are today, or maybe I just have my nostalgic rose colored glasses on. But I would say I quite like them for the strong Japanese / Samurai culture that they exude. And red. I dig red 😎
@@CrankyOldGamer I have been starting from the older books myself, as it seems like the thing to do, and they've pretty much been warcrimes inc from the start. Ie grey death 1 where they send a bunch of their own in ununiformed to start murdering civilians. GD2 where they clear out half the women from a city to be "joy girls".
Maybe it's specific to the GD books though, since they're from the viewpoint of a Lyran. Would be odd though.
@@jimmydesouza4375 yeah don't get me wrong - they aren't good guys. But then again, all the factions are pretty bad. Some more than others.
You can also just use Solaris Skunk Werks, which has an app called Battle Force Balancer and will let you do all that without making a spreadsheet. www.solarisskunkwerks.com/
I love how battletech is trending when GW fucked up
My favorite part is that I dont have to worry about the rules treadmill with GW. I still like some GW games but it is SO NICE to not have to worry about "keeping up with the Joneses".
Alternatively, be a clanner and do 5
Indeed!
Back before BV, my group came up woth a tonnage... Say 300 tons. Clanners got 75% of that total. So IS would be 300 tons, and Clans would have 225 tons to work with. It worked ok. But BV is much better.
You mean there are lighter lances than a Steiner scout lance?
Lol I know right??? Hard to contemplate!!!
@@CrankyOldGamer I scouted the enemy headquarters. Tripped over the communications array and stumbled into the headquarter's building. Technically we are still undetected. Both the headquarters and communications are out. :-)
@@CDP1861 perfection 🤣
@@CrankyOldGamer Actually I don't like the Atlas that much. A reasonably agile heavy Mech is better. How about the good old Marauder?
@@CDP1861 love me some Marauder.
I just came up up with a lance picking method.
Pick a cool mech
Chose if you want to
..run
..think
..ram
Or defend.
Then add two mechs light medium heavy or assault based on the above list top down.
Last mech chose one to die every mission.
You dont sound like a cranky old gamer. Maybe that comes out when you are playing.
Lol I get that all the time - I guess the name is sorta the exact opposite! Well except for the cranky and the game part.. :)
Easy, all Annihilators :P
If only! I weep for your battle value budget! :D
best answer
@@CrankyOldGamer Fine! All Fafnirs with Improve Heavy Gauss.
@@CrankyOldGamer Though normally I game 10 to 20k BV. BV is ate up fast by mechs, pilot skilss and loads fo cheap vees and pbi
a star is 5 mechs
Indeed it is!
Jenner, Thunderbolt, Locust, and....?
Depends. With those 3, a great all rounder would be an Archer. Locust could spot for it if necessary. You rarely can go wrong with an Archer.
@@CrankyOldGamer I apologize for the ambiguity. I was trying to identify the four mechs at the beginning of the video; the one in the foreground looks like a Warhammer, but the shoulders and second missile pod are different.
@@michaelpeavy3074 oh derp my apologies! I should have put 2 and 2 together. It is indeed a Warhammer. Its from Strato Studios.
@@CrankyOldGamer Thank you (oh yay, a new site to read over and over)
Catapault, if you are using the new materials.
step 1) buy as many urbanmechs possible
step 2 ) there is no step 2 :)
YAAAAASSSS
Wow, I really don’t like this, at all. Like I get C bills and tonnage, but why implement tonnage and C-bills as a balance mechanic, if I have to learn an entire theorem to calculate the value of one singular mother fucker. I find it annoying. If clan mechs really did just steam roll everything, wouldn’t it have made more sense to adjust the weight and money value of clan mechs to reflect the difference? And instead of setting specific limits on Clan lances, just use the opposing clan Lance to adjust how many units you bring?
Look if you felt the need to go into a long winded history and build up to the basic understanding on How to Build a Lance, Maybe you should have done a separate video for that or at least post at the start at what time stamp you would actually discuss Lance Structure.
I liked the history explanation. Yeah, it woulda been better to frame it so that people who already knew could skip it, but the entire video seems like it was directed toward people who are new to the game anyway.
Think of a faction as the social political group not a race.
100%
Hey, when you were looking at the thunderbolt, and couldn't figure out why it wasn't listed with the succession wars symbol/time frame, is because while it is a star league era mech, it is also present /leftover during the succession wars. a lot of the record sheets from the CGL succession wars pdf from them have star league symbols on them too.
That is good to know, thank you!
Think of a faction as the social political group not a race.