Some guy once said the risk of getting shot is always present, so "you don't conform yourself to a barricade... you adapt to the thing that's trying to kill you." The way you said it is fine too.
I was taught the knee up option and my instructor was adamant not using the first knee up option and gave a whole lecture as to why it was best. I like the approach John teaches these options as each are tools with different strengths and weaknesses.
i've been having this debate for awhile now about "getting hit and falling behind cover". The concept works, only if your center of gravity is between your legs. @04:54 you lean beyond your right leg. Imagine your two feet are the bottom part of a triangle and just beyond your feet is the point of the triangle. People generally fall where the point of the triangle is (unless they are pushed or otherwise moved) when they lose consciousness. The concept being that if you lose consciousness at that moment, your body will fall out of cover due to center of gravity being outside your leg (point of the triangle no longer being between your legs). Saying the above, i keep my right knee down to reduce signature and increase stability. Even though the point of my triangle is "outside" of cover. Thank you for such a great video and explanation.
If you want to maximize mobility (reach) while maintaining the lowest signature you need to point your down knee at the corner of cover. This is a quick and simple rule to follow as you move into the cover position. Just aim that knee to the edge of cover. If it's pointed inside you lose reach as you lean out over you knee in relation to uncleared area down range. If you point it out you expose it before your muzzle. There's a little wiggle room based on body shape. If you consider your rifle will be mounted in your shoulder then anything that protrudes out further then your shoulder is exposed before you have a chance to shoot it. Speed, surprise, and violence of action can make up for some technical errors and plays into John's comment at 3:16 taking about "The enemy of the good is the perfect."
I always instructed which position allows you maneuver and react the quickest. Stability by maintaining a solid low center of gravity is vital to move quickly. The environment you are in will always vary so being able to adjust is vital. You need to practice on different terrains frequently. Definitely do so while conducting some live fire with reactive targets. Get that immediate response.
@@jonc4050yup. Neither did founding fathers, any Guerilla outfit in Urban or any other type of combat. Men in this country are becoming soft thanks to ❤neoliberalism and tacit subservience to Israel, globalism
День тому
@jonc4050 unc has had double knee replacement too.
I like the knee down for the same reasons that he stated, however I noticed that when he throws out the other knee for counter balance, that knee is now outside of cover and thus can be engaged by the bad guy. To me this is the same as the knee up approach. I do concede that the cover will dictate the position as if I was behind a wall that provided ample cover for my knee that is the center balance. This was a great video and got me thinking about positioning. Thank you I love all the stuff you put out.
That's just because he's using a barrel as cover for demonstration purposes.. Obviously a building or a car or a wall, the things found in real life....when barrels are not found in real life....would hide the other knee just fine.
I remember in the police academy they taught us a knee up technique and we basically just showed our femoral artery to the bad guy and then poked out. I had watched pistol 2 on WPSN before I started the academy and immediately knew how much I didn’t like the technique they taught. I did what they asked while I was there, and then immediately returned to the way you taught it. Also, the WPSN pistol classes made me a stud on the range. I was just a couple points shy from being class top shot and we all agreed that the guy grading my target missed a few shots because of ragged holes.
Hey John, huge warrior poet fan, especially the family based stuff for the wife and kids. In this video it appears you use your magnifier to co-witness your iron sights rather than your red dot. Is this the case and can you explain your thinking please. Thank you for the awesome content! God bless! 🇺🇸❤️💪🙏
The knee down one also would depend on your cover. When you had the camera in front you could see your counterweight leg behind the barrels. So cover would make a difference as well. Good training though to test which ones will serve me best.
I’m with you on the knee down for sure - but of course it depends on your cover so having multiple options is important - most important to me is having all those options and using them appropriately depending on what cover you have. 👍
Awesome...recognize all of those from paintball. Please a video incorporating rice paddy prone/slav squat...stable and ripe for opportunity of movement.
Paintball players are the absolute masters of signature reduction. It is a regular occurrence in a tournament paintball point to have a literal hose of paint about 3in away from your head while you are also hosing down a critical area of the field, if you flinch for even a second that’s an opportunity for the other player to flank you. So if your signature reduction is off by 3in, that’s a point lost and potentially tournament ending. And you’re typically playing for a cash prize so……
Paintball is great practice for this. Go have a look at how good paintballers get at having a tiny signature. The nice thing with paintball is that you can fail a few times before you get it right… without getting killed.
Agreed. I played paintball for 6+ years, starting in high school & on a team. In taking tactical classes I find myself thinking back to those approach & shooting angles, getting LOW lol, being a small target, movements etc.
Airsoft too, particularly speedQB (like speedball for paintball). Bb’s all over an indoor fields’ concrete floor drives home the benefits of knee pads too!
Paintball players are the absolute masters of signature reduction. It is a regular occurrence in a tournament paintball point to have a literal hose of paint about 3in away from your head while you are also hosing down a critical area of the field, if you flinch for even a second that’s an opportunity for the other player to flank you. So if your signature reduction is off by 3in, that’s a point lost and potentially tournament ending. And you’re typically playing for a cash prize so……
I noticed during your analysis of the knee down position, during the angle from the front, that your other knee was showing outside the other side of the barrel. That would leave it open to be shot. So it seems both positions could open your knee to be shot on either side.
Fantastic and exactly how I was trained. Had a "Swat" trainer note many years into training that my knee down style identical to this was ludicrous. Love the inflexibikity of horrible trainers. Keep it up awesome content.
Interesting points. I don't have actual combat experience, but plenty of paintball/airsoft - and even slow moving projectiles hit anything exposed. Seems to me signature is def the most important factor and adjusting all factors to the cover your behind and who is with you. What good is stability or mobility if you get shot because you gave a bigger target? To me this isn't out of fear or retreat, but about staying in the fight longer.. Also, any thoughts on how close to cover you should be? With your barrels your using and sitting a couple feet behind it, if anyone was to get an angle on you, your super exposed.
Paintball players are the absolute masters of signature reduction. It is a regular occurrence in a tournament paintball point to have a literal hose of paint about 3in away from your head while you are also hosing down a critical area of the field, if you flinch for even a second that’s an opportunity for the other player to flank you. So if your signature reduction is off by 3in, that’s a point lost and potentially tournament ending. And you’re typically playing for a cash prize so……
Seems like the knee-down method also has the "drawback" that if you are behind a skinny block of cover, like the stack of barrels here, you run the risk of sticking your counterweight leg out the other side. In these examples maybe we are assuming the barrel represents a wall or something where that wouldn't be an issue
James Williamson taught knee down as you reveal very little of your body. Otherwise you risk becoming a mobility kill. If your leg gets shot you’re good as dead. So he would have us say, “Right side, right knee down.” And “Left side, left knee down.” That is, you’re poking out from right side of cover, be on your right knee.
Jiue jitsu or basically any grappling MA can really help with the balance issue of knee down and overextending. Once you figure out how to move and balance your body in less than ideal positions you can be extremely effective in whatever you are doing. My coach always drilled into our heads "find your balance". Without being balanced you are inevitably going to be compromised in your position in terms of getting sweeped or getting caught in something you otherwise shouldn't have been caught in.
It slows you down getting from both knees to standing if you're bumping from cover to cover and if you snap shoot it will throw your lower body the opposite direction and your core will kinda "wiggle" in a way that makes your shot less stable. If you have outside knee down your body mechanics let you snap shoot MUCH faster. Outside knee up lets you get faster from kneeling into explosive sprints. Other tips: Learn different dives and slides. Source: tournament paintball in the 2004-2010 era We had these exact discussions and practiced and workshopped all this extensively. Watch Dynasty Dysected 1&2 or One With The Gun and they really go into the body mechanics of high speed gunfighting
Wish there were more pants with knee pads that were affordable. I only have one pair of crye g3. I don't want to tear them up. I tried the $75 Chinese copy. While they are pretty damn good, you'd imagine we could get some $125 pair that aren't Chinese knockoffs.
Paintball players are the absolute masters of signature reduction. It is a regular occurrence in a tournament paintball point to have a literal hose of paint about 3in away from your head while you are also hosing down a critical area of the field, if you flinch for even a second that’s an opportunity for the other player to flank you. So if your signature reduction is off by 3in, that’s a point lost and potentially tournament ending. And you’re typically playing for a cash prize so……
Question I have as well as observation with knee down is that your weak side leg or foot is somewhat exposed. Is there a way to counteract this and/or reduce the signature of that exposed foot/leg?
Excellent video! I do have a fair amount of training. Biggest issue is I'm old with a lifetime of old injuries and the flexibility just isn't there so I do the best I can. I have not seen the "sideways" knee up version. I like that.
To do all that I would need Knee REPLACEMENT!😂 Worse thing about getting older is you finally gey your sh£t together and either you forget where you put it or don't have the physical ability to use it!😂😂
I know this is unrelated to this video but I've been a fan of the mr920 war poet with the holosun for a long time. I've been budeting for a while to purchase one. Where I live you can't find them any where, sure I could probably have one shipped to an FFL holder but a lot of the gunshops here are friggin assholes that charge a big extorsion fee. I just wished that they more readily available. I guess I'll just keep looking.
I think knee closest to exposure should be up so you have better control when leaning over to shoot so you don’t topple out into the open. Just my amateur opinion before I even watch the video
I think knee closest to exposure should be up so you have better control when leaning over to shoot so you don’t topple out into the open. Just my amateur opinion before I even watch the video EDIT: video opinion is better. Go with that - HAHA
Right there with you. Knee pads are a godsend. Getting up is a not-fun process. Suggest trying to get on the floor and get up like every few days. It's painful but you'll figure it out eventually and start building the muscles to do it. P.S. Have a tow truck standing by to get you up those first few times. lol
Calling one knee up and the other knee down when theyre both kneeling is a very poor level of communication. Strong side vs weak side knee would be better.
Some guy once said the risk of getting shot is always present, so "you don't conform yourself to a barricade... you adapt to the thing that's trying to kill you." The way you said it is fine too.
I was taught the knee up option and my instructor was adamant not using the first knee up option and gave a whole lecture as to why it was best. I like the approach John teaches these options as each are tools with different strengths and weaknesses.
I need more of these tactics videos! John is an excellent explainer
i've been having this debate for awhile now about "getting hit and falling behind cover". The concept works, only if your center of gravity is between your legs. @04:54 you lean beyond your right leg. Imagine your two feet are the bottom part of a triangle and just beyond your feet is the point of the triangle. People generally fall where the point of the triangle is (unless they are pushed or otherwise moved) when they lose consciousness.
The concept being that if you lose consciousness at that moment, your body will fall out of cover due to center of gravity being outside your leg (point of the triangle no longer being between your legs).
Saying the above, i keep my right knee down to reduce signature and increase stability. Even though the point of my triangle is "outside" of cover.
Thank you for such a great video and explanation.
Praying for you Pastor John.
Thanks for the inputs sir John really matters and helpful this concept 👊
Paralysis by perfection will get you killed.
If you want to maximize mobility (reach) while maintaining the lowest signature you need to point your down knee at the corner of cover. This is a quick and simple rule to follow as you move into the cover position. Just aim that knee to the edge of cover. If it's pointed inside you lose reach as you lean out over you knee in relation to uncleared area down range. If you point it out you expose it before your muzzle.
There's a little wiggle room based on body shape. If you consider your rifle will be mounted in your shoulder then anything that protrudes out further then your shoulder is exposed before you have a chance to shoot it. Speed, surprise, and violence of action can make up for some technical errors and plays into John's comment at 3:16 taking about "The enemy of the good is the perfect."
I always instructed which position allows you maneuver and react the quickest. Stability by maintaining a solid low center of gravity is vital to move quickly.
The environment you are in will always vary so being able to adjust is vital. You need to practice on different terrains frequently. Definitely do so while conducting some live fire with reactive targets. Get that immediate response.
Reminded me of the Aerosmith song, "Falling In Love Is Hard On The Knees".
I know, a different battle....
Knee pads/pucks can't be overstated
Arguably, one could not effectively engage the assailant without them from this position.
Uncle didn't have them in 'Nam
@@jonc4050yup. Neither did founding fathers, any Guerilla outfit in Urban or any other type of combat. Men in this country are becoming soft thanks to ❤neoliberalism and tacit subservience to Israel, globalism
@jonc4050 unc has had double knee replacement too.
Especially if you live through it and end up in your 40s😂
I like the knee down for the same reasons that he stated, however I noticed that when he throws out the other knee for counter balance, that knee is now outside of cover and thus can be engaged by the bad guy. To me this is the same as the knee up approach. I do concede that the cover will dictate the position as if I was behind a wall that provided ample cover for my knee that is the center balance. This was a great video and got me thinking about positioning. Thank you I love all the stuff you put out.
That's just because he's using a barrel as cover for demonstration purposes.. Obviously a building or a car or a wall, the things found in real life....when barrels are not found in real life....would hide the other knee just fine.
3:16 Some good life advice right there.
My knees hurt just watching this. Eight years in the infantry, two OIF deployments. 😭
I remember in the police academy they taught us a knee up technique and we basically just showed our femoral artery to the bad guy and then poked out. I had watched pistol 2 on WPSN before I started the academy and immediately knew how much I didn’t like the technique they taught. I did what they asked while I was there, and then immediately returned to the way you taught it. Also, the WPSN pistol classes made me a stud on the range. I was just a couple points shy from being class top shot and we all agreed that the guy grading my target missed a few shots because of ragged holes.
Hey John, huge warrior poet fan, especially the family based stuff for the wife and kids.
In this video it appears you use your magnifier to co-witness your iron sights rather than your red dot. Is this the case and can you explain your thinking please. Thank you for the awesome content! God bless!
🇺🇸❤️💪🙏
The knee down one also would depend on your cover. When you had the camera in front you could see your counterweight leg behind the barrels. So cover would make a difference as well. Good training though to test which ones will serve me best.
I’m with you on the knee down for sure - but of course it depends on your cover so having multiple options is important - most important to me is having all those options and using them appropriately depending on what cover you have. 👍
context is the answer
Awesome...recognize all of those from paintball. Please a video incorporating rice paddy prone/slav squat...stable and ripe for opportunity of movement.
Paintball players are the
absolute masters of signature reduction.
It is a regular occurrence in a tournament paintball point to have a literal hose of paint about 3in away from your head while you are also hosing down a critical area of the field, if you flinch for even a second that’s an opportunity for the other player to flank you. So if your signature reduction is off by 3in, that’s a point lost and potentially tournament ending.
And you’re typically playing for a cash prize so……
Paintball is great practice for this.
Go have a look at how good paintballers get at having a tiny signature.
The nice thing with paintball is that you can fail a few times before you get it right… without getting killed.
Agreed. I played paintball for 6+ years, starting in high school & on a team. In taking tactical classes I find myself thinking back to those approach & shooting angles, getting LOW lol, being a small target, movements etc.
Airsoft too, particularly speedQB (like speedball for paintball).
Bb’s all over an indoor fields’ concrete floor drives home the benefits of knee pads too!
Speed ball was great practice
Paintball players are the absolute masters of signature reduction.
It is a regular occurrence in a tournament paintball point to have a literal hose of paint about 3in away from your head while you are also hosing down a critical area of the field, if you flinch for even a second that’s an opportunity for the other player to flank you. So if your signature reduction is off by 3in, that’s a point lost and potentially tournament ending.
And you’re typically playing for a cash prize so……
Unless the paintballs are frozen.
Solid tips on breaking it down. Thanks!
I noticed during your analysis of the knee down position, during the angle from the front, that your other knee was showing outside the other side of the barrel. That would leave it open to be shot. So it seems both positions could open your knee to be shot on either side.
Bro my knees hurt just watching you
Great points. Thank you.
I really enjoy this style of video hope you keep posting more
Fantastic and exactly how I was trained. Had a "Swat" trainer note many years into training that my knee down style identical to this was ludicrous. Love the inflexibikity of horrible trainers. Keep it up awesome content.
Dudes get training 15 years ago based on 25 year old doctrine and refuse to modernize
"Institutional inbreeding."
Interesting points. I don't have actual combat experience, but plenty of paintball/airsoft - and even slow moving projectiles hit anything exposed. Seems to me signature is def the most important factor and adjusting all factors to the cover your behind and who is with you. What good is stability or mobility if you get shot because you gave a bigger target? To me this isn't out of fear or retreat, but about staying in the fight longer.. Also, any thoughts on how close to cover you should be? With your barrels your using and sitting a couple feet behind it, if anyone was to get an angle on you, your super exposed.
This is actually one of the concepts that carries over well from paintball
Paintball players are the absolute masters of signature reduction.
It is a regular occurrence in a tournament paintball point to have a literal hose of paint about 3in away from your head while you are also hosing down a critical area of the field, if you flinch for even a second that’s an opportunity for the other player to flank you. So if your signature reduction is off by 3in, that’s a point lost and potentially tournament ending.
And you’re typically playing for a cash prize so……
John is my absolute favorite Ninja guy!!
John, some of us old farts (I’m 65) aren’t so bendy anymore. How about some tips for non-gumbys. Keep up the great work.
Seems like the knee-down method also has the "drawback" that if you are behind a skinny block of cover, like the stack of barrels here, you run the risk of sticking your counterweight leg out the other side. In these examples maybe we are assuming the barrel represents a wall or something where that wouldn't be an issue
This whole video existed for John to show off at 5:32. Us with low quality knees cannot compete.
James Williamson taught knee down as you reveal very little of your body. Otherwise you risk becoming a mobility kill. If your leg gets shot you’re good as dead. So he would have us say, “Right side, right knee down.” And “Left side, left knee down.” That is, you’re poking out from right side of cover, be on your right knee.
John, I've tried several knee pads over the years and I am in need of something new, what are the ones you are wearing and would you recommend them?
Posting firearms tutorial content again?!
Subscribed.
Jiue jitsu or basically any grappling MA can really help with the balance issue of knee down and overextending. Once you figure out how to move and balance your body in less than ideal positions you can be extremely effective in whatever you are doing. My coach always drilled into our heads "find your balance". Without being balanced you are inevitably going to be compromised in your position in terms of getting sweeped or getting caught in something you otherwise shouldn't have been caught in.
What about on both knees? I know the navy guys like that one.
It slows you down getting from both knees to standing if you're bumping from cover to cover and if you snap shoot it will throw your lower body the opposite direction and your core will kinda "wiggle" in a way that makes your shot less stable.
If you have outside knee down your body mechanics let you snap shoot MUCH faster. Outside knee up lets you get faster from kneeling into explosive sprints.
Other tips:
Learn different dives and slides.
Source: tournament paintball in the 2004-2010 era
We had these exact discussions and practiced and workshopped all this extensively.
Watch Dynasty Dysected 1&2 or One With The Gun and they really go into the body mechanics of high speed gunfighting
@@ericj6636 you are taking yourself wayyyyyyy to serious. Please read my comment again and, well, never mind
@@stevelumbert9867😂 went over his head.
@@stevelumbert9867 oh... I just got it. That was a good one
Thank you! For you
Wish there were more pants with knee pads that were affordable. I only have one pair of crye g3. I don't want to tear them up. I tried the $75 Chinese copy. While they are pretty damn good, you'd imagine we could get some $125 pair that aren't Chinese knockoffs.
Yikes. Just buy double knee work pants like the rest of us blue collar normies.
God bless you
you can counterweight the "knee up" style too.
Thanks for the video
Excellent content 👌🏿!
Fortunately for me, knee down has always been my natural go-to. It was interesting seeing the pro/con of all the options. Thanks.
@WarriorPoetSociety are y’all gonna be coming to Utah any time soon for training courses? I’d love to have the chance to learn from y’all
I was taught that (if shot) you tend to fall towards the down knee. So that knee should be towards the cover not the corner.
Same question but weak side.
Switch shoulders or maintain strong side but lean further?
Great way to break it down, their is no one size fits all in anything.
Paintball players are the absolute masters of signature reduction.
It is a regular occurrence in a tournament paintball point to have a literal hose of paint about 3in away from your head while you are also hosing down a critical area of the field, if you flinch for even a second that’s an opportunity for the other player to flank you. So if your signature reduction is off by 3in, that’s a point lost and potentially tournament ending.
And you’re typically playing for a cash prize so……
Man... it's like sportsbike riding class. Knee postion and counterweight.
Outstanding Semper Fi!
John, your mobility at your age is impressive
Thank you.👍😎🇺🇸
I love instructors who don't "always/ never."
When are you bringing the war poet rifle back?
Bonus tip, the same technique can be applied to the tea bag after you drop your target.
Question I have as well as observation with knee down is that your weak side leg or foot is somewhat exposed.
Is there a way to counteract this and/or reduce the signature of that exposed foot/leg?
I try to buy some ifak's from WPS but they're always sold out...
Looking for your thoughts on Trump's Sec Def pick.
WPS 💪🏼
Excellent video! I do have a fair amount of training. Biggest issue is I'm old with a lifetime of old injuries and the flexibility just isn't there so I do the best I can. I have not seen the "sideways" knee up version. I like that.
To do all that I would need Knee REPLACEMENT!😂
Worse thing about getting older is you finally gey your sh£t together and either you forget where you put it or don't have the physical ability to use it!😂😂
Good stuff put out more stuff like this bro in christ
Kneeling from cover can be tricky, especially if you’re in an unpredictable situation where you need to move quickly.
WOW!
G'day, I remember the "A Team" All drums are %1000 pullet proof and the good guys don't get seriously hurt.
What muzzle device are you rolling sir?
Anyone know what knee pads he’s using? Interested in a good set of knee pads to keep with my kit
good explanation, especially for an older guy whose had both knees replaced..
I know this is unrelated to this video but I've been a fan of the mr920 war poet with the holosun for a long time. I've been budeting for a while to purchase one. Where I live you can't find them any where, sure I could probably have one shipped to an FFL holder but a lot of the gunshops here are friggin assholes that charge a big extorsion fee. I just wished that they more readily available. I guess I'll just keep looking.
I was taught knee down, and it served me well over 2 deployments.
Very interesting presentation, I've never seen a video on this topic before, it's definitely a good thought experiment
My knees hurt watching this video lol
Great instruction!
What shoes are those?
Depends, how much do your knees move?
Next video, expanding on the defeatest mindset.
I think knee closest to exposure should be up so you have better control when leaning over to shoot so you don’t topple out into the open. Just my amateur opinion before I even watch the video
Knee up to protect the bit and pieces! 😂😂😂
And now we know. Thanks 👍
Was walking like a baby deer for a week after all day airsoft. My legs weren't ready
Yup. Love what you are sharing, my brother.
From the thumbnail, perhaps the question should be "Shades up or down?"
I think knee closest to exposure should be up so you have better control when leaning over to shoot so you don’t topple out into the open. Just my amateur opinion before I even watch the video EDIT: video opinion is better. Go with that - HAHA
Awesome video. Great info and delivery.
Blessings brother
This is why I practice dragging a decent camping chair around with me
Mines a rocking chair, with side table and overhead cover/concealment
I prefer the tactical recliner.
Fantastic video on all points, John! Now, if only my jacked up knees would allow me to get in those positions again . . .
Thank you Warrior.
Not exposing the Knee is the key in this position 🎉❤
Love this. Thank you
What knee pads are those? Train hard, train smart, stay free!
Google imaged them. Arc'Teryx.
@@maurelius135awesome !
Great content!
My first thought was to shoot your back foot🤣 playing airsoft and paintball I always blasted people feet.
Train hard, train smart
Unfortunately, my knees are shot, as in EXTREMELY painful to get down and more so to get up.
Just stay on your knees, bro.
That's when you steal a tank and roll up... no need to get down...
Right there with you. Knee pads are a godsend. Getting up is a not-fun process. Suggest trying to get on the floor and get up like every few days. It's painful but you'll figure it out eventually and start building the muscles to do it.
P.S. Have a tow truck standing by to get you up those first few times. lol
PT focused on knee flexibility can help with that a lot
Blind fire ftw (obvious sarcasm is obvious).
U learn quickly by doing airsoft pretty quick 👍
Calling one knee up and the other knee down when theyre both kneeling is a very poor level of communication. Strong side vs weak side knee would be better.
Imma be totally honest. This sh1t really don’t matter