I find it so funny that this conflict was completely avoidable. Rome didn't want to give full citizenship to the Socii, so they all went to war, then in the end they gave citizenship to the Socii. Not one of Rome's greatest moves.
And for good reason, the italians worshipped "Italia" and not "Roma". After Roma defeated Italia, in other words after the Romans taught the Italians that Roma would be their main goddess that they would owe allegiance to and not Italia, these latter were granted citizenship. It was not that the Romans were just being selfish about granting them citizenship, a lot of those allies were Osco-Umbrians with their own political ambitions, especially the Samnites.
@jasonmuniz-contreras6630 This is entirely wrong. The one and only reason why the romans generously decided to share their roman citizenship with italians was because they were desperate. There was a tangible fear of Etruria and Umbria joining the revolt which would had cut their supplies from Cisalpine Gaul and likely been the end of Rome. That and the defeat in the battle of Tolenus with the numerous corpses dragged back to Rome was the final wake up call and it's only then that the Romans were willing to negotiate. There was no reason for Romans to teach the Italians to worship Rome when so many of them already did, at least at the time the social war started. They wanted to be full fledged Romans with all the perks and privileges of being one. They were angry at Rome for being used in wars and then discarded, oftentimes left without land and still treated like dirt.
I see the Social War and the Sullan-Marian rivalry as basically one continuous conflict from 91-82. Especially because Cinna and Carbo stoked the fears of the Socii against Sulla, and then when Sulla arrived back on the peninsula, he made sure to slowly march across Italy to reassure the Italians that he viewed them at least somewhat as Romans. By the time both Marius and Sulla had died, all of Italy was truly Roman, and that's what allowed Pompey, Caesar, Antony and Octavian to raise a crazy amount of legions.
@@7777ScionThose patrician armies in the 3rd century bc represented all of the patrician and land owning plebeian class combined in Rome. So maybe 100 k at most. They had to play Fabian tactics against Hannibal for a decade or they were going to become extinct. The Socii war increased that number into the millions. Octavian and Antony 20 legions vs Brutus and Cassius 18 legions or Severus 45 legions against Pescennius Niger would’ve been impossible in 3rd century bc.
@@7777Scionexactly. The Punic wars alone, should be enough evidence of that. Hell, even Pyrrhus was shocked and ultimately had to withdraw from Italy because of it.
@@7777ScionBy relying on auxiliaries of their conquered allies and subjects. That's how they conquered the Mediterranean, but after this there were no more allies and only frontier subjects. That's why the imperial legions as early as Tiberius are almost exclusively frontier bred and trained. The Late Republic civil wars bring an end to Roman legions dominated by Italian soldiers. All the fuss over the Senate inadvertently led to the Iberians, Gauls, Greeks/Illyrians, Sicilians and North Africans all being trained and battle tested in the Roman style of warfare.
I am always half amazed that the bourgeoisie intelligentsia, in the form of republican liberism, decided to copy the Roman system to such an extent. The Social War is a prime example of it being incompetent and prone to civil war. Then again, as a step away from absolutism and towards the plutocratic oligarquies of today, it's understandable why they chose it. What baffles me are the common citizens, specifically those that learn Roman History yet do not learn *from* it.
Actually, this video is a remake of an older video that was part of a series on the Roman Republic I made; so, I already have a bunch of videos covering the aftermath of this period
If you've a dcord server it'd be great to share with ya there to supplement your work & research. These social wars are brought to their climax ultimately by julius caesar. That sentence was the theme used by rome & romeia till the times of the medici financed neopagan school of firenza. At this time the plutocratic 'republic' was resuscitated. Des cartes & the venetian & medici & 'humanist' (erasmus) (de vere aka oxford) themes run on about the glory of the struggle for liberty etc from these times. Its no mere coincidence either that the reformation immediately follows this period. Love what ya did here with this 10m vid!
No. The Social War was long over by the time of Caesar. In between was the Spartacan revolt, and other military situations. The conflict of Crassus, Pompey, Caesar were all about personal "dignitas" and the class conflicts between plebian and patricians. Had nothing to do with the 'allies' because they were all citizens by then. Caesar's dictatorship and the following civil wars were simply wars between great (as in, successful) generals clawing for personal power.
I find it so funny that this conflict was completely avoidable. Rome didn't want to give full citizenship to the Socii, so they all went to war, then in the end they gave citizenship to the Socii. Not one of Rome's greatest moves.
The social war and later the battle of the colline gate all but ensured that the filthy S*mnites were thoroughly pacified so it was worth it imo
Welcome to the greed of humanity. Nothing's changed. Putin's Russia, North Korea, corrupt politicians in Australia, Finland, and even the Americans.
And for good reason, the italians worshipped "Italia" and not "Roma". After Roma defeated Italia, in other words after the Romans taught the Italians that Roma would be their main goddess that they would owe allegiance to and not Italia, these latter were granted citizenship. It was not that the Romans were just being selfish about granting them citizenship, a lot of those allies were Osco-Umbrians with their own political ambitions, especially the Samnites.
@@jasonmuniz-contreras6630100%
@jasonmuniz-contreras6630 This is entirely wrong. The one and only reason why the romans generously decided to share their roman citizenship with italians was because they were desperate. There was a tangible fear of Etruria and Umbria joining the revolt which would had cut their supplies from Cisalpine Gaul and likely been the end of Rome. That and the defeat in the battle of Tolenus with the numerous corpses dragged back to Rome was the final wake up call and it's only then that the Romans were willing to negotiate.
There was no reason for Romans to teach the Italians to worship Rome when so many of them already did, at least at the time the social war started. They wanted to be full fledged Romans with all the perks and privileges of being one. They were angry at Rome for being used in wars and then discarded, oftentimes left without land and still treated like dirt.
This is a criminally underrated channel. You explain an incredibly complex and obscure event in roman history very well.
Great video on a neglected event in Roman History!
I see the Social War and the Sullan-Marian rivalry as basically one continuous conflict from 91-82. Especially because Cinna and Carbo stoked the fears of the Socii against Sulla, and then when Sulla arrived back on the peninsula, he made sure to slowly march across Italy to reassure the Italians that he viewed them at least somewhat as Romans. By the time both Marius and Sulla had died, all of Italy was truly Roman, and that's what allowed Pompey, Caesar, Antony and Octavian to raise a crazy amount of legions.
Rome raised huge armies in the 3rd century B.C., so, no, that is not a viable theory.
@@7777ScionThose patrician armies in the 3rd century bc represented all of the patrician and land owning plebeian class combined in Rome. So maybe 100 k at most. They had to play Fabian tactics against Hannibal for a decade or they were going to become extinct. The Socii war increased that number into the millions. Octavian and Antony 20 legions vs Brutus and Cassius 18 legions or Severus 45 legions against Pescennius Niger would’ve been impossible in 3rd century bc.
@@7777Scionexactly. The Punic wars alone, should be enough evidence of that. Hell, even Pyrrhus was shocked and ultimately had to withdraw from Italy because of it.
@@7777ScionBy relying on auxiliaries of their conquered allies and subjects. That's how they conquered the Mediterranean, but after this there were no more allies and only frontier subjects. That's why the imperial legions as early as Tiberius are almost exclusively frontier bred and trained. The Late Republic civil wars bring an end to Roman legions dominated by Italian soldiers. All the fuss over the Senate inadvertently led to the Iberians, Gauls, Greeks/Illyrians, Sicilians and North Africans all being trained and battle tested in the Roman style of warfare.
I am always half amazed that the bourgeoisie intelligentsia, in the form of republican liberism, decided to copy the Roman system to such an extent. The Social War is a prime example of it being incompetent and prone to civil war. Then again, as a step away from absolutism and towards the plutocratic oligarquies of today, it's understandable why they chose it. What baffles me are the common citizens, specifically those that learn Roman History yet do not learn *from* it.
Always a great day when you upload!
These are amazing videos. Thanks for shedding light on some of the most forgotten periods of Rome’s history!
This is such an under covered topic, thanks.
? Under-covered ... where? Certainly not in any history courses in universities all over the Western world.
Very good . Thank you!!
He's back!!!
You made my day
Glad to hear it
Fantasies of Rome, I never lived through, taking up my mind.
I have an exam soon and these videos really helped me! I wish you would do a full roman history!
Try the History of Rome podcast, very similar energy to this for a full history
great video on some niche history
Boom nice. I hear people whinging about this being similar to todays environment. (Always. Forever). Roma Invicta
thank you for your efforts
Continue the great work.BTW,would you consider doing a video about Emperor Constantine I?
Very clear. Thanks! Will you explain in the next video the consequences of how the Senate is sidelining the votes from the Italian tribes?
Actually, this video is a remake of an older video that was part of a series on the Roman Republic I made; so, I already have a bunch of videos covering the aftermath of this period
9:00
If you've a dcord server it'd be great to share with ya there to supplement your work & research.
These social wars are brought to their climax ultimately by julius caesar. That sentence was the theme used by rome & romeia till the times of the medici financed neopagan school of firenza. At this time the plutocratic 'republic' was resuscitated. Des cartes & the venetian & medici & 'humanist' (erasmus) (de vere aka oxford) themes run on about the glory of the struggle for liberty etc from these times. Its no mere coincidence either that the reformation immediately follows this period. Love what ya did here with this 10m vid!
No. The Social War was long over by the time of Caesar. In between was the Spartacan revolt, and other military situations. The conflict of Crassus, Pompey, Caesar were all about personal "dignitas" and the class conflicts between plebian and patricians. Had nothing to do with the 'allies' because they were all citizens by then. Caesar's dictatorship and the following civil wars were simply wars between great (as in, successful) generals clawing for personal power.
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