Renault's Biggest Mistake? Is The New Alpine Already Over? (Was The A110 The Right Car?)
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- Опубліковано 4 жов 2024
- Today we're talking Alpine - the quirky sub division of Renault that was revived a few years ago and brought back the A110 name. A very retro styled car with a unique placement in the market, the A110 won over a lot of fans, including myself - but with Renault needing to make huge savings, it looks like Alpine is potentially going to be shut down. Did they deserve it?
#Renault #Alpine #A110
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I’ve had mine since September 2018. It follows a couple of 911s and a Boxster. For me it’s been a much more special experience. The dealer in Glasgow is fantastic. Nothing I would change it for.
Class! Bet it handles our Scottish roads no problem. Had it round knockhill yet?!
Hello Philip, originally from Glasgow myself I have worked in the Renault Design Department in Paris for 30 odd years as one of the Design directors. So I followed the cars development and have visited the factory in Dieppe. I will be retiring in October and yes have just ordered my A110 which will arrive in July. I am planning to do a road trip around Scotland so if you see a blue Alpine with French plates....it will surely be me. Thanks for supporting the Brand and if you ever think of driving your A110 down through France pop in to see me in Honfleur where I live in Normandy. Best Kenneth
@@livlem Great to hear from you. What a dream job! It's a very special car. Enjoy yours. I will look out for it.
Speaking for northern Italy, in particular Milan, the main alpine Italian dealer was there in a nice and dynamic area of the city, and the Renault dealer next to it was one of the nicest in the province. I think the best way to sell two types of products is to do it the nissan way, with two separate dealers franchising, one only for the bottom of the range like the March, the Primera, etc, and one for the best models like the Skyline, the Z, the Cima, and so on.
Love mine. Drove a Porsche Cayman and the BMW M2. Great cars too. But just didn’t excite me in the same way. I used to own an MX-5, and the Alpine is the only one of these three that has that Colin Chapman lightness. Also test drove an Elise...very light, but not very practical, and slightly clunky. I don’t care if Renault stops production. I bought it to enjoy it, not to make money from it or to see it swamp Cayman sales. The reason I suspect that the A110 isn’t selling like hot cakes is because of prejudice and a certain “follow me” syndrome, with availability also to be factored in. If Gordon Murray and Chris Harris, amongst a whole plethora of journalists and automotive experts, rated it as the best two-seat mid-engined sports coupe on the market today, that’s good enough for me. Interestingly, Dickie Meaden has written that he hopes that the Alpine A110 creates a trend toward pure sports cars rather than the electronically assisted, overly porky, over powered cars that seem to get released every second week. Seems your average punter isn’t interested in purity, or we’d be seeing a lot more Lotus, Alpine and 4C sales.
I was in the market for such car. I did my homework researching/reading/viewing online resources and drive-testing.
Alpine is a nice car that has personality. Problem is the competition, especially Porsche 718. For a similar price you get a 718 with(PASM, Sportchrono package, 19" wheels, few extra bits). Simply 718 ticks more checkboxes. When it comes to 50k gbp people are very careful how they are getting spent.
- Apline is too unsettled/unstable driven towards the limit. Check the l'Argus drive test on Norschleife: ua-cam.com/video/iigAQH8DR8g/v-deo.html. Then check other drive tests: Megane, Civic Type R, 718 (ua-cam.com/video/i6dlk0zJ8bo/v-deo.html) see how stable they are towards the limit. You'll say Alpine is meant to be fun. For a professional driver/trackside spectator I am sure is fun but for your average untrained enthusiast these RWD antics are downright frightening on a track at those speeds. Check Alpine moose test here and check 718: ua-cam.com/video/AdsXUB0z-Pc/v-deo.html. Not convincing. Simply other cars have more engineering in them that give you better control over the car. 718 is a benchmark for this. Be honest with yourself and think about the racing engineering experience of Porsche to build such cars.
- build quality/materials there is no comparison to a Porsche even a base 718.
- Renault was stubborn to limit the configuration of this car(no manual, other upgrades). They don't afford this. Only Ferrari/Lamborghini can afford to force customers take whatever they propose.
- sales on 2020 collapsed possibly also because the marketing hype died and owners/reviewers/buyers became aware of the real qualities/limitations of the car.
- you say the car was low margin. But it's a technology showcasing / halo car, a brand ambassador. Almost all generalist car manufacturers operate such halo cars at a loss. Exceptions are Ferrari/maybe Lamborghini/other few performance specialized brands.
I ended up buying a Civic Type R. It ticked almost all my checkboxes. Performance, looks, manual transmission, stable towards the limit. I refused to part with such amount of money for something that was not meeting my demands.
For the second car a CPO 718 will be my choice. Not an Alpine, for the aforementioned reasons. I had Renault cars since few years ago and they were good/reliable, good value. But since 4 years ago they started jumping prices too fast, emitting premium ambitions. See Talisman, Koleos, Espace, Megane 4 RS. Good cars but too expensive to get even people in the show-rooms.
Alex G Aaah...thanks for trying to convince me that I bought the wrong car...much appreciated. I don’t have time for a p*ssing contest that involves me posting videos that show that your videos are wrong, but I did enjoy your videos all the same, and it doesn’t bother me that the Alpine is “playful” and the Cayman is “serious”. Driver aids tend to produce a more “serious” car, but I don’t drive on the Nordschleife with its wide open high speed corners. I drive on mountain roads, where the Alpine A110 is at home. I’ll just keep enjoying my wonderful A110, let you enjoy your equally wonderful Type R and others enjoy their superb 718s. Why this has to turn into a “mine is better than yours” discussion is beyond me...For what it’s worth, I once owned a Megan RS265. Mega car with its own special character. Love them and still admire them on the road today. Was it worse than the A110? No. It was different, demanded different things of me as a driver, and gave me pleasure in different ways.
@@simonng2077 Your money your choice. Not trying to convince anyone. It's just the other side of the story, another view. In case others are wondering what went wrong with Alpine. That's what put me off. Norschleife has a wide variety of corners not only fast ones. That's why cars are tested there. Mazda mx-5 is also playful but check the Argus drive test how reassuring it handles. The price is more down-to-earth. If Renault priced this car at 35-40k gbp and added a manual it would have sold.
I also drive tested the M2 (few hours apart from the Type R) and was underwhelming: overweight, less grip in corners, too much body roll, too linear and less exciting overall(sound, sensation) compared to Type R. If I'd spend close to 50k gbp it would be on a 718.
Alex G Okay. Well, thanks for sharing the videos and enjoy your Type R.
@@simonng2077 I have Mine for a year now and I can assure You that You didn't buy the wrong car . I once again enjoy driving of to work every morning ! The car just makes Me happy just driving it ! Tested the 718 and the Alpine on the same day and bought the A110 , alltough the Cayman had better build quality , I found it rather boring to drive ! And just like You I didn't buy a car for driving it up the Nordschleife once a year but for a daily driver !
With so many people making O-faces to supercars accelerating, I am glad James is talks about cars.
@jayEmm you make a mistake on sales for 2020. actually, in France, if you wanted to buy a car between January and March, due to CO2 regulation, you had to pay extra fee. that is why they produced massively in December 2019. then, models produced the first 3 month of 2020 were for exportation , ( UK for example). they also speak about closing Dieppe factory but not to stop production of A110. they want to transfer production to another site. there are some example in automotive industry, such as Cayman produced by Valmet in Finland, then at VW Osnabrück, then to be back in Zuffenhausen. same for 4C...
This comment needs to be higher or pinned.
It could be true, but it turns out that the Alpine does not suffer from a penalty with the new classification, anyways...peanuts at this price level (moreover Alpine has increased its catalog prices for 2020...), the drop in orders is just due to a lack of interest in the model ... The enthusiasts bought it, the dealers too (obliged ...) despite a raised price of € 10,000, and as Renault wanted to restrict the launch markets ... and that on those of predilection (Germany, Japan), it does not sell ...the real goal was to sell SUV, not to sell a A110...
SETHalpine you can still bought a pure for same amount of money than before. This extra cost is for S models an color edition. And if you know tax fee are decreasing within 3 months time, you are thinking twice.instead of that, I would prefer to spend this money in one or two more options.
Alpine and Renault F1 are safe ! Here is the report : www.globenewswire.com/news-release/2020/05/29/2040668/0/en/GROUPE-RENAULT-Press-Release-Cost-reduction-plan-project-2o22.html
@@frenchLeon I wish that were true, but all I can find about the A110 is "Open reflection on the reconversion of the Dieppe plant at the end of the production of the Alpine A110." which sounds like the end to me. I suppose it mean my car will appreciate over time - but makes me sad.
I'm just glad they made it for a while. People seem to prefer convertibles in the small sports car market
If Alpine is dropped hopefully they will return with a convertible after some time
Why are the Cayman, 350z, TT, M2 etc all so popular then ?
Cayman because it's a Porsche, 350z because it's cheap, TT because it's an Audi, the M2 isnt a sports car
@@JayEmmOnCars and 718 Boxster has better selling numbers than 718 Cayman...California dreamin...
@@JayEmmOnCars how is the M2 not a sports car ?
One cannot judge the A110 without having driven it. A fantastic car and a real sports car. I bought one and never looked back.
Alpine may disappear in the near future due to financial cutbacks at Renault, and soon after many will regret not having bought one....
Honestly the biggest problem with it was the price. Being non-manual was almost as bad. Great car, but not for many.
Probably get a really good deal on one now...
@@EvoraGT430 i think the non manual is a bigger problem than most think, ive noticed in the UK automatic is seen as a girly or more pathetic option instead of manual, i always saw it as an option for girls who couldnt get used to manual driving test so they do it in manual and get stuck on an automatic license and arent experienced in manual stick shift.
boyo I get that people like manuals. I’ve had two manual sports cars. Specifically chosen because they were manual. When I bought my Alpine, I was in the market for a manual Cayman. Drove it. Really loved it. Drove a few other manual cars too. Then I drove the A110, and it is magical. Lightweight, beautiful ride. And the DCT is fantastic to use. Flip it into manual mode and it is just as engaging, because you’re paying for dynamics, and dynamics trumps everything else.
I was in the market for such car. I did my homework researching/reading/viewing online resources and drive-testing.
Alpine is a nice car that has personality. Problem is the competition, especially Porsche 718. For a similar price you get a 718 with(PASM, Sportchrono package, 19" wheels, few extra bits). Objectively 718 ticks more checkboxes (badge aside). When it comes to 50k gbp people are very careful how they are getting spent.
- Apline is too unsettled/unstable driven towards the limit. Check the l'Argus drive test on Norschleife: ua-cam.com/video/iigAQH8DR8g/v-deo.html. Then check other drive tests: Megane, Civic Type R, 718 (ua-cam.com/video/i6dlk0zJ8bo/v-deo.html) see how stable they are towards the limit. You'll say Alpine is meant to be fun. For a professional driver/trackside spectator I am sure is fun but for your average untrained enthusiast these RWD antics are downright frightening on a track at those speeds. Check Alpine moose test here and check 718: ua-cam.com/video/AdsXUB0z-Pc/v-deo.html. Not convincing. Simply other cars have more engineering in them that give you better control over the car. 718 is a benchmark for this. Be honest with yourself and think about the racing engineering experience of Porsche to build such cars.
- build quality/materials there is no comparison to a Porsche even a base 718.
- Renault was stubborn to limit the configuration of this car(no manual, other upgrades). They don't afford this. Only Ferrari/Lamborghini can afford to force customers take whatever they propose.
Talking about Honda, I ended up buying a Civic Type R. It ticked almost all my checkboxes. Performance, handling, excitement, looks, manual transmission, stable towards the limit. I refused to part with such amount of money for something that was not meeting my demands.
For the second car a CPO 718 will be my choice. Not an Alpine, for the aforementioned reasons. I had Renault cars until few years ago and they were good/reliable, good value. But since 4 years ago they started jumping prices too fast, emitting premium ambitions. See Talisman, Koleos, Espace, Megane 4 RS. Good cars but too expensive to get even people in the show-rooms.
Been waiting for years for Alpine to return. Addition to my 1989 Alpine GTA, Most owners of the original A110, A310, GTA and A610 would have bought one
Not many then. 😀
We have an Alpine dealer near where I live and I always drool over them whenever I'm over that way...could never afford one though. They look so much better in the flesh.
It is a future classic for sure
I bought one from new, absolutely love it. On British Broad, faster than a lot of more powerful car. Even on track, the a110 and S are doing very well! I don’t think they will stop it, they will either sell it (to Carlos Tavarez who initiated the project) or build it from another factory. Dieppe factory might close yes but, that definitely does not mean Alpine will be ditched! If so, then I will have a collector!
Please no. It's my favourite modern car, unlike anything else on the road it makes sense.
Nissan is going to drop off from Europe and I don't see how Renault could continue making the Alpine with its expensive aluminium chassis. It'll go very soon or soon
@@hexgraphica
They are? Can't say I'm surprised, they have very much faded into obscurity in recent years (in Germany, at least). However, I can see it happening as well, people would rather buy a 'performance hybrid SUV', something which makes no bloody sense whatsoever. I cannot say I am not partially to blame for Alpine's demise either, I figured I'd rather go for a cheap hot hatch (most likely a Fiesta ST) and a nice classic car (most likely a Mercedes C126) instead of an Alpine.
Infiniti has left the UK, not sure Nissan would go?
They're going to focus on Asia Pacific and if they're staying in EU it will be for the note and the joke, as the qashqai looks too similar to an already existing Renault product to me
@@hexgraphica Why would Nissan leave when their SUVs sell so well?
So BEAUTIFUL sport car with an original design and a look with caracter. Everyone who drives this car, loves her for life.
A beautiful and vastly underrated car, Renault, please NON!
Have you bought one?
I love your take on these things, and wouldn't argue against any of that. I'm an owner and use mine every day (>20k miles in the year), I love it for everything it should be and love it for those things it shouldn't do as well as it does. I'm a serial owner (2x GTA's and still with an original A110) so I would forgive the car a lot. For the dealerships, yes - bolted to a Renault Dealership and I understand why some people would not want that (they may need to take a look at their reasons for buying a car if that keeps them away IMHO) - but the Alpine guys love and understand the brand and what it means and has meant, the service has been first class - so they got that bit pretty well right. When Renault announced that there would be another Alpine and then let them come up with this masterpiece I applauded them for their vision and passion (and 'Frenchness' - only the French could do this). It will be a huge shame if they kill off these cars and the potential future goodness that could have rubbed off on the Renault brand in general. Petit Pois. Mange Tout and all that.
i agree and disagree on the dealerships thing. If a low volume car has bespoke dealerships and sales team, the price is going up big time to support it. Meanwhile, some time back in the 1980s and 90s, a vauxhall dealership a few miles away from me also had Lotus and it really made the place appear a bit more like it. They had an Elan and a Cartlon nice'n'visible and you really couldn't just ignore the place like you could with the Nissan shop next door. I don't get the thing with treating people differently, but then as a customer i'm more interested in who's going to be working on it as opposed being schmoozed
I understand the concept of a separate dealership. It is driven by prejudice, but knowing that doesn’t fix it. In Australia, there is only one dealer and stock is very limited. The dealership is attached to a Renault dealer, which isn’t as flash as the Porsche or BMW dealer down the road, but is still quite nice. Do I care? No. I’m interested in the car, not the showroom or the glamorous sales staff. But plenty of people like to feel special through association :-)
I own an A110S and it is as you write ... I love this wonderful car! It is outstanding in any experience! Whoever didn't test drive it for some hours is just talking about nothing. It is so special how you feel the road you drive! And it is so different how you feel about physics!
@@carpediem1140 - I drove the S at Thruxton back to back with a standard Alpine. Straight away you could feel how much more controlled the S was - it''s a great improvement for fast driving. I wouldn't change mine for an S as the PURE gives me everything I want except for those very few miles when I press on hard (too hard for sanity if I'm being honest) - the S would let you go VERY fast, the standard car is 'merely' effin' quick.
From what i heard the production cycle of the alpine a110/a110s will be finished like scheduled and not earlier. After that the factory in Dieppe will be restructured.🤞( have an 110s on order)
I have bought an A110S and I love it. Renault inside but its hard to fault. Lovely to drive
Badge obsessed - that’s so true.
Here’s our garage: 2018 MX-5, what a stunning car to drive ALWAYS a smile on my face when I slide into it. Monumentally underrated by us Brits and probably just about lost its “hairdressers” tag over the years. 2018 AMG GLA 45, another underrated car. Mind blowing performance and total luxury. And when you can’t take life’s detritus to the dump in the MX-5 the AMG performs that admirably and still provides a million smiles per mile. Oh yes and you can still park it in the UK’s ever diminishing parking spaces (cue interjection from Range Rover owners about tank like qualities of their massive bus).
So that’s my ramblings. The Alpine never got a look in because I always want flexibility from my cars, bikes and boats. Plus as you rightly say the Top Gear burn out did it no favours at all. The Alfa, never in a million years. I still remember 70’s 80’s and 90’s unreliability (and I even had a Fiat from new...) and can’t see past that. So I drive a Merc, because it’s reliable (and I like the badge).
But here in the UK everyone drives one of the three premium German brands. But whatever happened to “Mondeo Man”? 25 years ago he was King - now he drives a 3 Series..... Brand obsessed - Never!
Surely the Mx5 was one of the best selling 'sports' cars ever in the UK?
Good video. I’m 2 months into the ownership of a A110s and am loving it so far. Be a sad day if the factory shuts. As a previous Lotus owner the A110 fits in that nice niche between an Elise and a Cayman, small, agile and quick. Plus it has the extra bonus of being very rare which, for me, gives it that extra ‘x’ factor 😀
It's interesting to come across this video now, after the new Renault President has decided to rebrand the Renault F1 team into Alpine next year. I imagine that is a good sign!
Gordon Murray owns one, and praise it. If it’s good enough for Gordon it’s good enough for me! At least if I had the money to buy it
Totally agree
I've literally only seen one new A110.. And that was sitting out front of a Renault dealer 🙄
Which is 100% more times than I've seen one of these horrendous monstrosities. Fantastic car by all accounts but f**k me it's ugly 😩
@@thecoops2329 It's ugly?! You must be tripping
@@onelyone6976 not currently.
It costs as much as a new mid-engine Corvette, that's the problem.
I love my Alpine - it is absolutely brilliant! I would hate to see a shutdown. The brand has a potential as a prestige/niche in the Renault family with the purpose to shine some light on the other brands. To take one of the Renault SUV and make an Alpine I guess was the plan. It would have made sense as Porsche are doing with the VW SUV´s.
Love my A110 Pure and so does everyone who sees it. Not a Porsche and that is why I bought it. Virtually hand made, apart from a couple of switches from the Renault parts bin this is a truly unique and bespoke car. Please keep buying your overweight German cars, makes the A110 owners smile knowing that they are driving something truly different !
I don’t think it’s an odd product at all, it’s the sort of car Lotus could have turned out, a bit more upmarket than the Elise with superb driving dynamics. The next model based on the Evora platform should be something equivalent but at a higher price.
It’s certainly on my list to have one day!
The value of the A110 is going to rocket in the next few years, everyone wishing that they had got one!
People always lament the cars they should have bought, but deep down know that they will only part cash for established brands. I'd have an Alpine but it would be a terrible financial purchase.
It's another Alfa 4C, a cool little car that is priced too high.
working for renault, fortunatly, i can tell there are several wrong assumptions here. just don't worry :)
Glad to hear.
I've heard something about a road going version of the GT4 race car...any info you can give on that? 😁
In this case maybe you could forward my opinion to the management.
I was in the market for such car. I did my homework researching/reading/viewing online resources and drive-testing.
Alpine is a nice car that has personality. Problem is the competition, especially Porsche 718. For a similar price you get a 718 with(PASM, Sportchrono package, 19" wheels, few extra bits). Objectively 718 ticks more checkboxes (badge aside). When it comes to 50k gbp people are very careful how they are getting spent.
- Apline is too unsettled/unstable driven towards the limit. Check the l'Argus drive test on Norschleife: ua-cam.com/video/iigAQH8DR8g/v-deo.html. Then check other drive tests: Megane, Civic Type R, 718 (ua-cam.com/video/i6dlk0zJ8bo/v-deo.html) see how stable they are towards the limit. You'll say Alpine is meant to be fun. For a professional driver/trackside spectator I am sure is fun but for your average untrained enthusiast these RWD antics are downright frightening on a track at those speeds. Check Alpine moose test here and check 718: ua-cam.com/video/AdsXUB0z-Pc/v-deo.html. Not convincing. Simply other cars have more engineering in them that give you better control over the car. 718 is a benchmark for this. Be honest with yourself and think about the racing engineering experience of Porsche to build such cars.
- build quality/materials there is no comparison to a Porsche even a base 718.
- Renault was stubborn to limit the configuration of this car(no manual, other upgrades). They don't afford this. Only Ferrari/Lamborghini can afford to force customers take whatever they propose.
- sales on 2020 collapsed possibly also because the marketing hype died and owners/reviewers/buyers became aware of the real qualities/limitations of the car.
- you say the car was low margin. But it's a technology showcasing / halo car, a brand ambassador. Almost all generalist car manufacturers operate such halo cars at a loss. Exceptions are Ferrari/maybe Lamborghini/other few performance specialized brands.
Talking about Honda, I ended up buying a Civic Type R. It ticked almost all my checkboxes. Performance, handling, excitement, looks, manual transmission, stable towards the limit. I refused to part with such amount of money for something that was not meeting my demands.
For the second car a CPO 718 will be my choice. Not an Alpine, for the aforementioned reasons. I had Renault cars until few years ago and they were good/reliable, good value. But since 4 years ago they started jumping prices too fast, emitting premium ambitions. See Talisman, Koleos, Espace, Megane 4 RS. Good cars but too expensive to get even people in the show-rooms.
I must admit that the enthusiast car market in France is in a dead state. Co2 taxes when buying new cars just kills anything over 7-8L/100km combined. That taxe goes up to 20.000€.
Just imagine a Gt86, you expect to pay 30k but no, its 50k instead. (that one of the worst case scenarios, if not the one)
All the relatively cheap sport cars get gutted by that taxe. If you don't want to pay such a thing you end up with either a diesel (not really meant for fun) or a 3cyl petrol engine...
Basically anything between 30 to 60k sees its price incredibly swollen up.
I feel sad for my domestic car market... :'(
Great informative video though! Love to hear more stories like that!
Yea it sounds like France needs to rethink their Co2 taxes
Paulin Cherpas: thanks for some great insights on France.
You have a beautiful country for driving and motorcycling. Not to forget, skiing, walking and sailing. I must visit again soon
Euro Car Parts and DFS sales on the same day? No way. 😂
i bought a sofa from dfs on the 1 day they never had a sale
The topic is nice but your hair is nicer
Hahaha
Epic
If they're going to cancel the car, possibly a future classic, imagine a sports car widely loved only made for a couple years, sounds like will be expensive.
If it was widely loved people would have bought it.
@@robert7622 I thought they were selling them as fast as they could make them. New ones are still selling above retail due to the waiting list aren't they?
@@Rhowhat correct the first batch sold out immediately on arrival, on autoscout you can get one for 45-55k, they all have relatively low mileage and that Renault 1.8l engine should last for a few miles
Rhowhat No. You pay the retail price and you have to wait 2-3 months.
When I was shopping for a sports car I did put a deposit down on one and also drove it. It's a great car - light and quick. In the end I picked a differnt car for a similar price.
Back then I had these main concerns:
- The closest official Alpine dealer was 60 miles / 100 km away. Who could/would service it and treat it appropriately?
- How reliable will it be? Yes it's using some Renault (Megane) parts but even other big manufacturers screw up their first year of production due to electronic issues.
- How was the depreciation going to be?
- What future models would they introduce i.e. with more power?
- The sound of the 4 cylinder was not really my taste (also didn't like the Cayman 4 cylinder sound). A 6 cylinder like the Cayman GT4 / GTS 4.0 would have been much better in my opinion.
Depreciation must be steep, nobody wants to pay what they're asking.
The Alpine A110 could have benefited a better looking more modern front fascia, and a low volume limited introduction to international markets. Yes, a front redesign would have no longer retained the “retro” lineage, but the Alpine A110 genuinely could have outsold and erased the remnants of the Lotus Exige and Alfa Romeo 4C’s marketshare off the planet. They had a real winner that could have easily launched a very “Porsche-like” GTS trim to the adore lightweight track car enthusiasts.
I love the Mordin poster from Mass Effect! Well done Jay.
I really wanted an A110 when I was looking to swap my M235i in, my issue was the lack of dealers and service centres and they were just not enough in the used market to get them at my price point (was hoping some would creep into the 35k mark)
I wondered what happened to Dom Jolly.
Jay looks nothing like that pillock Dom Joly, who by the way writes a column for Cotswold Life.
Impressive Afro, James 👍
The Alpine wasn’t made to sit in jams on UK motorways. It was made for the sunny, winding roads where I live in the south of France. The locals scowl at Porsches, but get very excited when I wizz past in my A110 Legende.
At the end of the day.. whether the Alpine was in direct competition or not technically speaking is trivial as long as they target the same type of purist buyer which is increasingly overwhelmed not only by exotics but now mainstream names like the new Miata or even the BRZ and probably some hyper hatches - which evolved being really good (in my opinion). Alpine then has not only the challenge to target these buyers but to convince the premium as a premium brand.
Another fascinating review - Chris Harris, Nif Needell and James, now that WOULD be a Top Gear worth watching!
In Canada we do not have the Renault or Alpine so it is very interesting to learn about the sales numbers, especially geographically, as these are great insights. Here the 4C is sold out of the Ferrari dealership (with Maserati and Alpha) and Lotus is sold out of the Lamborghini dealer. You are 100% correct in saying the regular car brands just do not know how to cater to the difference in buyers. The NSX is sold out of Acura dealerships here but again a supercar and the rest of the line-up are so removed from each other. Enjoyed this segment a lot!!
The Alpine is very much a Marmite vehicle. Particularly coming from France as they are not renowned for proper sports car production. The numbers sold could be the maximum the French market can absorb, remembering that the French are very patriotic for homegrown products!
Signing Daniel Ricciardo for $25m per year is probably the biggest.
You do understand that you're a car UA-camr and that's how you make your living doing car reviews and the fact that your country is allowing you to do content with cars as much as I enjoy you talking through the car's you review it's starting to get alittle old at this point just hearing you only talking about cars instead of getting out there and driving them. The McLaren series was great but it's getting stale now and the only reason I'm listening to all this is just to make this comment. It's almost like a hospital situation were the doctors standing there saying we're losing him you're losing me . Cheers mate 😁
It's not very easy to do reviews at the minute still, but I am filming what I can
There is always a follower, slightly-better-in-every-aspect competitor type and A110 was also in that category.
A few year ago, I chose the 4C over A110 despite A110 having slightly better specs than the 4C. I somehow smelled a herd of marketers behind Renault who took market-in approach rather than that mythical, crazy and unreasonable element called "passion." The 4C had it, somehow.
So I wouldn't be surprised if they withdrew it because of marketing and financing reasons.
Destined to be a future classic?
Interesting video and to be honest I don’t have an opinion because I don’t know the answer. History is repeating itself because the original Alpine and NSX didn’t sell well. The only reason for “dull” cars selling well and “interesting” cars not selling well is that we forget enthusiasts live in our own wee bubble. If I can use watches for example. Watch enthusiast want every watch to be stainless steel, 40mm or less and a Rolex. However most people buying watches want big watches, fashion watches, watches in style and bling! Car enthusiasts want manuals, lightweight and Naturally Aspirated engines. I just think the mass buying public don’t really care about that stuff. They want toys, gadgets, gimmicks, fuel economy and a badge with a strong image. The car companies will make cars that the majority of buying public want to buy.
It would be a serious error to shut down the Alpine program - it really is their 'halo' range.
I'm glad they shut it down before ruining it by going electric!
@@TheMentalblockrock an electric alpine would probably surpass any other electrical car on the market in all honesty, why against it so much? hurr durr petrol fumes make me feel good.. and light and woozy.
im against electrical right now but in the future there will be some good examples i think of electrical design and theirs no point sitting at the back of the class refusing to accept.
my dad considered buying one. in the past we used an old a310. we liked it, was a unique car, very different from posche. my dad disliked the look because it tries to remember the original one with no succes. our local dealer had in the showroom the real one and i must say it did look much better. also it's mid engine as the porsche and costs as much as the porsche. but the porsche is more powerful and more confortable, and you can have it with a proper manual gearbox. lotus is old but looks more aggressive. my dad didn't find many reason to buy it, if they were my money i would have bought the bmw m2.
The M2 is plagued with problems. Unfortunately.
Try a Porsche 718 with PASM, optional LSD, Sportchrono package. For the same price it has no competition: handling, build quality, sensations.
Will be a REAL shame if they go, damn I was giving serious thought about buying one.
What's stopping you then??
The fact that the factory will be closed down maybe???
you have all the more reason to do so now: any renault dealership can service the alpine, parts won`t run out anytime soon...and, due to the limited number built (10`000 total?), the prices in the collectors market will begin skyrocketing in no time flat. I wish I could afford one, but opted for a used 2006 boxster instead: my bad.
God I hope they keep making this car...
I think it will survive. Nissan just announced the 370z replacement (400z?) and I think that niche models can play a big part for manufacturers going forward and the volume models become blander and blander.
People have been making this same argument (sports cars will die) for decades. People thought that hot hatches would kill them. They tend to come in waves. Like in the late 1990's there were loads, mgf, Alfa spider s2000, Mk5, MR2 ,barchetta, slk, 350z, boxster, z3, tvr, etc yet in the 1980s there were hardly any.
Sports cars can exist they just need to be great enough to overcome the lack of practicality. Mx5s are great so they sell. Alpine a110 whilst good to drive has no spider version whitch is borderline essential for a sorts car. But it will survive. 100% they just need to develop it properly and make it more sellable and get some decent finance deals.
As a Diehard Alfa guy and 4c owner, I was sad when the USA didn’t get these cars. The early rumors were they would be sold at the same Nissan dealerships that sold good numbers of GT-Rs.
Renault were never really interested in USA lol
@@blademanx Renault was really interested to hit the US market and they tried but the Americans did not buy renault because it's French and during the old time it was not the time for small cars either, renault lost a big amount of money by trying so right now they stopped trying. It is also what is happenning with the A110, trying to do a fun lightweight sport car but it does not sell because of badge snoberie.
Very true about the Mustang thing you brought up. Once the petrol head people who have always wanted a specific car have finally got it, the numbers of sale will drop and drop and drop
The core issue - probably everywhere except maybe France- is their dealers not doing a good job and their dealer network being simply too thin (Renault has a good network here but they can t sell or service A110s). Asked twice for an appointment and test drive on site (aka 1h30min drive away from my location) and got no answer, 2nd attempt by phone felt hurried, ended with the promise they ll call back...yeah almost a year later, I m still waiting.
Meanwhile, Audi "spammed" me with promo material for the TT and R8 coz I once mentioned after a bog standard service that I d be interested in a sports car whilst highlighting that the TT might not be for me. I always get a birthday card, a reminder for the MOT and a little, neat gift for Christmas...unfair comparison you might say given I already own an Audi.
Okay, fair point, so let s have a look at how it went at Porsche: walked into the dealership unannounced, had a look at cars followed by a chat with their sales rep who had the brains to realize I m the type of guy who is less interested in the quality of their coffee and cookies but more into the car related things which led to an ad hoc visit of their repair shop...the conversation with the sales rep ended on: "so you re interested in a Cayman, no problem, feel free to tell us when you d like to pick up the demo car for a few days"...yeah well, I own a Cayman now which has a suspiciously similar spec to the demo car.
Note to Alpine/ Renault: I still love the concept of the A110 (even if it seems less practical as a daily than a Cayman), I love that you went lightweight and resisted the "easy-to-market" power creep temptation, I could have lived with the fact that your quality is probably not right on par with your German rivals, I could possibly even live with your version of DSG instead of having a manual (which I clearly prefer for this kinda car), I m francophile and the history of the original means something to me, pff one of my ex girlfriend s dad even owned the original (seating position is horrid for tall ppl btw), the fact that I haven t seen one in the wild up to date rather adds to my excitement for this car and yet, I haven t had the chance to drive one. If your marketing department made up a customer willing to spend this kinda money on a car like the A110, it d probably be me... gladly or sadly for you, I ve become an extremely happy camper in Porscheland.
Firstly, French govt. condition for stepping is that Renault will have to maintain all manufacturing plants. Instead they'll have to close foreign manufacturing sites. Secondly, the Alpine is manufactured in Dieppe where Alpine have been made since 1969. It's also where Renault Sport competition dept. is and where until the last model Renault RS where made. Hopefully that means they'll keep making it.
Fingers crossed!
The alpine was never marketed as a luxury vehicle, it was marketed as an driver’s car. Porsche and Audi mark sports cars that are marketed as luxury vehicles. That is the same issue with lotus. I don’t think the sports car market is dead, it really does depend how you market your product.
Audi luxury? mass production? and luxury?
my friends dad just bought a brand new Audi A3 and complains still about giving up his 13 year old ford focus. Audi to me personally is a teenagers dream brand, at least the A line.
@@Dockhead Audi market themselves as a luxury brand. What's so hard to understand
Driver's car with no manual gearbox option. Lost potential sales.
come on, you make a car with manual they say " iwish it has a paddles". if make paddels they say where manual. buy the car drive it, don't like it then modify it to manual. and stop bickering
Harshith Sadhana “modify to manual” 😂
Agreed!
I own an A110S ... perfect car! Did you ever test drive the A110 or the A110S? No? Do it! You will not miss a manual gearbox ...
80% of all the new Caymans sold are PDK's ! So no manual is not the problem !
The only Renault in my family ever was a brief foray with a Dauphine which never had a chance because my father never found a proper mechanic to put it right. That was in the 1950's. I don't know any more on this Alpine that what you have told me. I saw immediately the love in the UK for cars that are light, corner as if on rails and have six speed manual gear boxes. The comment about the flavor of the month, or rather, "...that get released ever second week," thank you Mr. Ng. However, something like that but not really like that has been announced with the release for the U.K. with a proper steering location for left-lane driving with a very special model of the Corvette that even we in America do not get. The proper level for the C8 Vette is the LT2 and Europe not only gets that, they get a special edition first release car, which means more car for the money in the first year. On top of that, Corvette has had a year of experience to iron out the very few kinds that developed to the America public, having had just under 2700 cars to look at, a sufficient number to find problems. An amazingly few problems were found and none on a regular basis. That is, none. No problems:...not on any regular or recurring basis. All problems were either corrected or are correctable. Those doing the most driving, had the least amount of problems which also tells you something about this car. The popularity of the removalble Targa roof coupe far exceeded the motorized convertible. The advantage of the latter car is the U.K. is much more obvious with far more changing conditions of weather than pretty much anywhere in the U. S. experiences. I hope the first of these cars gets to England sooner, rather than later. The country deserves an early grand opening or reveal and the car would be wonderful working its way around the country, so that people can see the unbelievable deal they are getting. I will attempt to attach a couple of my own photos to an e-mail to you. I'm no pro as you will notice, but you will get to see the car without the look of slick professionalism. AF
They weren’t really ‘selling’ the alpine a110’s in early 2019. They were most likely just completing the orders placed years ago. I don’t think comparing those sales to 2020 would be fair.
I'm disappointed that this car never made it to North America, but then again when I drove the Alfa 4C I fell in love with it, but due to legislation the US models ended up about 200 kilos heavier making it nothing like I remember...
I’m sad about Alpine. I hope they keep going. Being on the other side of the pond, I’ve never even seen an Alpine (modern or classic), let alone driven one. But if it had been sold here it would have definitely been on my radar as a fun weekend car.
of the 250 sold in the UK, around 50 are currently for sale on autotrader.
I would also estimate, that out of the sales numbers you quote, quite a bit are dealer registered, ie not sold to customers at all. This would explain why they have the amazing drop in 2020, the fact is there was a final customer drop well before this.
I agree its a good car, I've driven the 300hp one, but although it is a good car, as a UK person and Lotus fan, the elise looks nicer to me, even if its not as good in many ways, its just such a good looking car and its a good 250 kilos lighter and as you said, its a manual! You also have the option of the slightly uglier exige with its V6.
I never thought the alpine would be a success and I'm not proud to see I may be correct. Even the Cayman and boxster for porsche as a sales disappointment in reality, and I had a 718 S myself, which I wont talk about other than its a good car, but a bit boring, if your taste's allow you to indulge in something lighter.
Its the same as the 4C, a good car, but not enough people want one and you wont get many porsche fan's away from a quality marque like that to a "lotus" type marque with lower quality, and lets face it, although I may get myself an elise 250 Cup, the quality will and has been pretty bad.... but the next one should be much better, maybe in 2022. Whether there will be much market for it, also remains to be seeeeeeeeen.
I thought your numbers sounded off but according to howmanyleft there are only about 280 on the road. That's nuts, anyone know why such a widely loved car has almost 1 in 5 for sale?
@@Rhowhat yes, simple... its not as loved as we think it is, just like the elise. I love it, you love it, but the 55 yr old next door or the 28 year old with 40k doesnt as its not got 400 HP, it doesnt make a decent noise, and he cant race away from the lights in it as much or as easilly and the numbers of the lotus/caterham etc are all not true unless you are in "perfect" conditions, which you never are.....
gary murray as the 54 yr old man next door, trust me it makes a good sound and pulls away from the lights as quick as my previous Lotus Elise Cup 😉
@@david111s Exactly My point being a 56 year old next door neighbour !
I’m buying one, in 2022, to take over from a 2018 C63 Coupe
I think the chassis and drive is what makes this car special. Much as I loved the noise of my Merc it was just a little inert. I wanted to love the Alfa but the reviews were crap. All the journos love this car. That’s good enough for me.
The gtr is staying. New 400z in the pipeline also.
The new alliance announcement gives a little more detail.
Till 2022 despite poor sales
Interesting views again, nicely presented, thank you! Perhaps Renault could recapture some of its investments by making Alpine into their 'AMG' or their 'Ghia' . Only seen one Alpine here, in 2018, new at the Renault dealer (NL). Would love NSX topic video!
I love the idea of it, but I don't have anywhere like the money for it. Tell you what - residuals still seem to be holding up - you can't get one for less than £40k? Guaranteed future cult car. I'd have another look in 7-8 years! Hope they run ok on E10...
Surely Corona has put a lot of strain on sales, I started tightening up around January when cases left china
i also wish if people stopped buying all german cars togehter and buy others then people will know about different tastes, colors, culture, uniqueness.
many people do buy different cars, its the market above budget family line that is the tricky part, everyone drives a KIA SUV or Hyundai hatchback, but there is no proper saloons or coupe style cruisers from these type of brands, and if they ever introduce them, the UK population turns all monkey and starts throwing Audi banana peels at the car companies going hurrrr durrrp this isnt a S3 or bmw m3, herpp durppp the m3 has 38 mpg in my town but this gets 36 so its a complete shit car.
It throws people off when it was first released that only journalists could see it, and when they released i think 100-200 "launch models" that no one could get their hands on unless they were "somebody". Threw me off and I decided not to order. New car companies with a snobbish released I'll pass on. Those first units were only available to people who could just splash money on a car without ever seeing it in person. Majority of us are not like that.
Not true. The order process for the launch versions was very democratic. You only needed to put a refundable deposit down when the order book opened.
In France the original A110 has a great history known by a lot of people... but the new one wasn’t marketed as good as it could have been... and if at the time it came out, I had been on the market for a new car and if my finances hadn’t crashed shortly before, I would have seriously considered it...
I would love an A110.........considered one briefly but realistically would mean that I needed to lose my two current garage princesses .....that was never going to happen.
Its a shame that it seems to be destined to be discontinued but I am not surprised as the days of (relatively) affordable proper sports cars seem to be numbered. Basically very very few of the driving public are prepared to buy such cars. This saddens me, greatly.
Hi jay, i'm one of the rare owner of a alpine A110-AEF and Youre absolutley right. Renault with this beautiful little Car got a glimpse of how it could be to get this Kind of customers but i'm totally lost at the Renault Infrastrukture. I feel like buying a spaceshuttle from a scrapyard. And it hurts to bring it back There for a simple Service.
Customerservice is just not Ready for this outstanding lighthouse Product. And one time someone will Remember how it could been....
I have seen literally one Alpine here in the UK, randomly parked on a driveway in London
I'd say, many people don't understand the level of the actual financial crisis. It may kill many automakers.
Good insights. Thank you from america
Perhaps ordinary carmakers make special sportscars not to make profit but to give the brand a sporty image....
James May owning one put me off😂nice video👍
Rumor has it France has great haircutters.
And makes great little sports cars...
Used to own an original A110 1300 S in the mid 70s. Fabulous fun car. The current A110 is an exciting well put together package. It will always be a fairly niche market. There will be people like me who would buy one because it is not a Porche. Its Frenchness and rarity are a lot of its appeal ( I have only seen half a dozen on the road since launch).I hope that Renault do not muck it up, with the transfer to another plant and the fact that Renault F1 is now Alpine F1 may give it a raised profile with Alonso and O’Connor, cruising round in A110s
Main problem in the UK was that no manual was offered and the fact there was a big price hike when they brought out the s version. I’ve still never seen one on the road in the UK the ones that sold here must all be tucked away in peoples collections as investments
whats your take now that Renault is renaming their F1 team to Alpine? from the alpine website "From the 2021 season, the Groupe Renault team will become the Alpine F1® Team, equipped with a Renault E-TECH hybrid engine." is the future for Alpine hybrid?
Bring it to the US market. The dealer network could be set up Genesis-style, where there are a few dealers across the state, and the car gets delivered to you and taken on flatbed to get serviced and such. There are many enthusiasts here who are jealous of y'all Europeans for getting this car. Price it at around 45K, and it'd be a worldbeater. Cheaper than a Cayman and more useable than the 4C? Everyone would buy it.
I never thought about the dealership being part of the "make or break" aspect of a cars success
The only person who's hair is getting better the longer Covid ensues!
Great video and apologies if I missed if this point was covered, but did these sales include the A110 S? I can imagine the release of that (universally agreed) improved version would really halt sales of the vanilla A110. Either way it's a tragedy, I really wanted to see the focus on weight and fingers up to power mentality succeed
Very interesting as usual. Thanks !
I liked the alpine, but what killed it for me was no manual gearbox, no mechanical handbrake and no lsd. If it had that it would be the perfect car (in my opinion).
I'm not a manufacturer and I don't know how much it costs to make a car but I think when people say it could do with x y or z to make it better I think they just mean to make it sell better over a rival. Regardless of how much they have to sell it at to make a profit, if no one will buy it at that price I don't think it's wise to have made it in the first place. People who class it as a luxury item who have money would probably just pay the extra and get a Porsche.
IF i had the money, i'd love one.
Particularly when they came out, many journalist loved them, many say it's as good, if not a better than a Cayman.
Many even said when the more powerful S came out, they still preferred the feel of the "standard" A110.
Of then, lack of funds aside, another reason it'd be hard for me to buy one is that they're only list for sale in 16 specific countries, with mine* not being one of them :_ .
*I live in Ireland and while i could go to say Northern Ireland or England for one, having to travel doesn't help, not to mention servicing - would i have to bring one to the UK for every main dealer service or would a Renault garage count? ...
In general it's hard to buy sporty/powerful cars here anyway, many simply aren't sold or are super expensive because of the way our VRT tax is weighted against more powerful cars....
For example, Nissan never sold the 350Z, 370Z or GTR here, Mazda withdrew the RX-8 here two years before they did in the UK....
The MX-5 never got the newer 2.0l engine here (aside from the limited to 10 30th Aniversary MX-5 units sold here), while you can't get an MX-5 with even the old 2.0l engine now.
While you CAN buy a GT86 here, it's €45,000 before options!
While the Supra is €85,000 before options 😂🎏
There are several problems with the Alpine , one of them was it's brand... no one under 40 has any idea of it's heritage. Then you had the price. For that amount, buyers prefer to get something with a badge more recognisable. Then it's the age. You know that a model just 3 years old is getting "old". Any model nowadays is hot for as little as the first 6 months, then it falls into the category of "meh...next!"
I've seen tons of reviews about it and every single one seemed to adore it, so we can take into account it's a great car. If they ever fall into the 20k mark (which I doubt), I'll definitely look into one.
Looks like this video needs an update. Factory still in production (oct 21). Renault F1 team rebadged to Alpine. Alpine to flagship all Renault sports cars. Looks like it might be around for a while!
Good news for sure
To be fair this would be my 1st choice for a little sports car. Love the look of it and it’s definitely got personality and a bit of uniqueness. 50k is a little rich for what I’d want to spend for some fun on the weekends, have to see what happens to the used market in the next few years.
I ve always found that as a consumer I usually am better informed about the cars I might be in the market for, rather than the auto dealers who are supposed to be selling the car to the public...
one of my favourite cars of all time, so sad to see it potentially finished ;(
Light, purist, driver-centric cars must have a manual box - end of for me.
but a manual gearbox weights 7 Kg more and becomes tricky to handle on the kind of roads the A110 is most enjoyable on - that's what most reviewers did say, and grudgingly agreed with Alipen engineers when they said that dual clutch robotized was the best option they had when they could only have one.
Being that I live in the U.S. I am very jealous that this car is only available in Europe and Asia and I hope one day alpine could sell a limited number in the U.S.
Here's all you need to know about how good this car is/was; Gordon Murray has been benchmarking his new multi million dollar T50 hypercar's handling on the Alpine.
Wish it had a manual gearbox. The whole car was made from scratch to appeal to real driving enthusiast and then they stick a dct in it... 🤦🏻♂️
Agree
Don’t you know gearbox used in is same brand than the ones used in Ferrari such as the 458 Italia ?
Samuel Piau no I didn’t know and all the reviews I’ve seen and read say it’s pretty good but as good as it is it will never give the same driver involvement as a good manual... call me old fashioned! I do like the car a lot and who knows, maybe I’ll buy one anyway!
Nuno Bandeira this car is quick. Involvement with wheel and pads can be pretty joyful. I doubted about it before, as you do. But since I drive this car, Limits are far beyond I could imagine especially limit I could reach with a stick.
@@samuelpiau9466 I have a DSG and whilst it's quicker than a manual it just isn't as fun. Completely subjective I know. That's why I think they missed the mark here. Guys like me would rather go a manual Lotus even if it isn't as good a package.
Why would anybody owning a R.S. Mégane decide that what he needs next is to spend £20k more for a basically the same car, but with less practically & no manual gearbox , just because a few “experts” say that rwd is better than fwd?
Is the fwd Mégane really £20k worse to drive than the Alpine?
Comparing a heavy FWD front engine 4 seater hatchback to a lightweight aluminium RWD mid engine 2 seat sportscar ! I can assure You, they drive nothing alike ! The only thing they have in common is the engine !
You made some very valid points. I was very seriously looking at buying one as soon as I heard about it over a year before it was launched. I just could not afford the price in the end. Then when I saw it close up, the practicality for any type of road trip with my wife was just too poor. There is nowhere to put anything, really, especially inside.
I am a car nut and love drivers cars and was hoping this would be the one, sadly not. But I still think the car is great, it's a shame they will disappear again.