Living in Germany I haven't seen the movie yet, but I have read the book in English and in the German translation. Your review and some of the others really make me curious to see the the film. I think we should never forget that the main objective of a movie as well as the book is to make money. Therefore the author has to exaggerate things and create dramatic effects, hence the ending. However those type of movies are actually an advertising for the catholic church as it portrays it as being a powerful, mysterious and interesting organization. People will know that it is a piece of fiction, but they will still capture the spirit. We can clean up the mistakes in it later. So in essence I think it will support catholicism.
True. Everyone's goal is the make money now a days, but that doesn't mean you can't still do it by making a legitimately good movie with solid values and true messages. I would reserve judgement until you've seen it. I think the way it looks from a trailer it appears like it could support the catholic church, but the actual movie was very different from the trailer. Let me know what you thought of it once you've seen it! Thanks for commenting!
@@southernbella8503 Hi, I will definitely watch it. Here in Germany we will get the synchronized version end of November. I liked the book actualyl very much. So I'm a little bit afraid that the movie may not be up the level of the book, but Robert Harris co-authored the script, so I hope its good. I'm somewhat dissapointed that the changed the name of the main character form the Italian "Lomeli" in to "Lawrence". - I'll see in 2 weeks from now.
Life long, faithful Catholic. Respectfully disagree with most points of this review. The archetypes for the conservatives and liberals were a little cartoonish. However, the conservative leader advocated for literal holy war. Is that the right man for the Chair of St Peter? Prayer is shown in meaningful ways throughout the movie. The cardinals are shown attending mass before conclave, there is a thoughtful prayer before a meal, and a tender moment of mercy and forgiveness between two cardinals expressed through prayer, in Latin no less. Regarding the ending, how is this blasphemous? This was straight up biology. Not some “woke” attempt to get a jab at the church and it was meant to be provoking. I think mature Catholics should see this movie and be prepared to be uncomfortable but not in a way that’s disrespectful.
Thanks so much for taking the time to reply. I totally agree that the way the conservatives and liberals were portrayed was cartoonish and exaggerated, I just meant that the politicking was likely and unfortunately accurate. Obviously the way the conservative cardinal was portrayed is not someone that should be pope, but most conservatives are not like that. There are some instances of prayer but for me it wasn’t anywhere near enough, especially for cardinals about to elect the next pope. We’ll have to agree to disagree on the ending. I found it offensive and unnecessary. Thanks for commenting! I always welcome differing opinions!
I'm glad you enjoyed it! While I did think it was a very well-produced film, there were just too many questionable messages in here for me to feel comfortable recommending it to fellow Catholics. Thanks for watching and commenting!
@@southernbella8503 agreed It is very anti-Latin Mass which is unfortunate It also has an extremely strange ending involving a rare gender “situation” that really seemed out of place in what was otherwise a very well acted and extremely well directed film. The subtext is definitely not inline with Catholicism unfortunately
@@kimcage7768 In the beginning of the film, the Pope passes away. During the conclave to select the new pope, there is a clear struggle between the conservatives and liberals . The way the film set it up the “good guys” are the liberals . There are two conservative candidates and one of them is presented as being somewhat anti-gay, etc. The other one is shown to have had an affair with a nun that led to a child put up for adoption. Then the liberal candidate that ends up becoming the new Pope ends up being a person who was born an intergender hermaphrodite so they present as mail, but have a uterus and ovaries. All along the primary protagonist is on the liberal side of the situation and in the end, makes it determination not to tell anyone about the new Pope’s secret. It is all very wellacted and presented ; and yet it certainly challenges the church. Sorry for the spoilers, but you asked !
I love the point you made aboit lack of prayer. On ending… I generally say “See the movie, pray, and make up your mind!” Greetings from a fellow Catholic in Poland! I lived in USA for 8 years!
@@southernbella8503 I am about to post my own review of Conclave by the way! I probably am far more forgiving then you were of the movie, but God Bless You! Keep making videos!
I appreciate your perspective as I am not Catholic. I think the lack of prayer that you felt in the movie was probably intentional. Cardinal Lawrence, as you pointed out, struggles with his faith in the film, and at one point in the movie he confesses to another Cardinal that he has specifically been struggling with prayer. In one scene the Cardinal that has just been disgraced by scandal asks Cardinal Lawrence to pray for him. Of course Cardinal Lawrence agrees, but the scene cuts before he prays. I think this is at least a depiction of how prayer becomes harder as doubt increases; it could indeed be saying something deeper than that as well. Either way, I think that was an intentional plot choice and not so much an omission on the part of the writers.
I can totally see that, and I hadn't thought about it before! Make sense why the film felt more like an American presidential election over a process guided by the Holy Spirit. I also think that the filmmakers were not really out to make a movie glorifying Church and prayer in the first place, and so I think they left it out since they likely don't even understand/believe in that aspect of Christianity. Great take! Thanks for commenting!
The novel - which I read - is a bit different, I think. There, you will find cardinals that really pray and ponder what God will think of their attitude - especially the main character, Jacopo Cardinal Lomeli (Cardinal Lawrence in the film). And the difference between "liberals" and "conservatives" is much more nuanced, conflicted and complicated - as it should perhaps be. SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER Cardinal Tamblay is regarded more as a "liberal", but in the end he is found to be a symoniac; one of the worst sin a Catholic prelate - indeed a Christian - could make. And Bellini, the supposed head of the "liberals", is willing to tollerate a symoniac Pope as long as the "ultraconservative" Tedesco is not elected. I believe these things happen in the film too (I haven't seen it yet), but in the novel they are highlighted and articulated. Adayemi is regarded as a homophobe, which is rather bad of course - but then one has to consider that these ideas are not uncommon in Africa. And yet, when the cardinals seem to be finally inspired by the Holy Spirit and walk sure-footed to the Chapel to cast their final vote, you see Adayemi chanting beautiful and holy hymns with his powerful voice. As for the final "twist", though, I think it's better in the film than in the novel. In the film, Benitez could pass off basically as a man with some... internal issues. In the novel it is different; "he" has got external deformed female genitalia, which assumes are malformed male ones (to be fair, this is also because Benitez came from a very poor cultural background). Now, I am not a doctor, an anthropologist nor a theologian by any stretch of the imagination, but I believe that Catholic theology assumes that there are only two natures in the human beings - male and female. But there are also those who are "prevalent" male and female; the former might be ordained. This might be possible in the film, but in the novel? I do not know. The quote from Jesus, regarding the question of certainty and doubt, is not present in the novel, nor is Benedict XVI anywhere regarded as a nazi.
The people involved in making this movie do not just hate our church, but our religion in its entirety. And when I see how much our faith bothers them, I can't help but smile. Keep up the good work, regards from Croatia!
True! It is a bit hilarious that they spend so much time, money, and effort on a propaganda film. If you don’t care about us and don’t think we’re relevant, why are you spending money trying to destroy us? Thanks for watching and commenting!
I was very pleased with this film after having seen Immaculate earlier this year, i was very disappointed by that film. I think Conclave is going in a direction that good Catholic thrillers and horror can be, there is a real evaluation and deliberation of different ideas present in Catholic culture. I agree with you about the conservative cardinal, although i do think there are religious leaders like him in the church that should be critisized, conflating traditional aspects of catholisism like latin and architecture with racism is quite shallow. I think they could have made a better distinction between the traditional parts of the culture and "traditional ideology" because racists or religious extreamists will say they are defending tradition when they're really just defending their personal ideology.
@@flamingo6828 Oh, I interesting. I’ve never seen Immaculate. I can see your point and I agree there likely are cardinals like that, I’ve just never seen any that loved Latin and tradition and were also racists. True, I just hate it when a movie like this implies that conservatism is somehow linked to racism. As if you can’t have one without the other. Good points! Thanks for commenting!
@@southernbella8503 I forgot to say earlier, that Tedesco seems to be a better character in the novel than he is in the movie. In the former, Robert Harris has him start a reasonable conversation or speech, "to tip the scales" at the end. Thus, he is not as bad and slimy as he may look like in the latter. True that, he was a harsh critic of the late, deceased Pope, and he would like to return the Church to what it was under the likes of Pius X. But was Pius X a bad Pontiff? I think not. Perhaps, not the right Pope for the XXI century (but who am I to judge the Holy Spirit's work?).
@@maxdepasquale2351 Oh interesting! I heard Ben Shapiro read the book and I found that interesting since he's not even Catholic. It's good to hear that the book didn't seem to be as bad as the movie.
@@southernbella8503 Probably true (the movie hasn't hit these shores as of yet), but I think that one may find the "final twist" more implausible - if not openly offensive to the Church - in the novel than in the film. Which is really a shame, because for what I gather the novel otherwise seems to be more sensible and respectful of the Church and our relationship with God.
I agree with you in everything. My only disagreement is not recommending to see the movie. I think it is still worth seeing for the beautiful cinematic experience and the process of Conclave. The ending did made me cringe as well. But it still important to see what the movies message.
Totally agree with you about the beauty of the cinematography. It really was an aesthetically pleasing movie, but I’m just concerned for uninformed Catholics; I wouldn’t want them to fall into heresy watching this movie. If only the message of the movie could’ve been as beautiful as the shots. Thanks so much for commenting!
@@andrewbaerwalde3706 I know! If it wasn’t for the ending, I might say it’s OK to watch, but the ending totally ruined it for me and made me feel like I was being away the whole time; (which I was). I would still say it’s not a great movie without ending, but with the ending is an absolute no for me. thanks for commenting!
@ i completely agree! I was entertained by most of the movie and they just threw that weird twist ending in their and I felt insulted as a catholic myself it was like being told to my face that I needed to change my views as a catholic…honestly I wanted to boo in the theater when I saw that “big reveal” lol
@@southernbella8503 exactly! But looking back on it I should have seen this kind of extreme liberal message coming considering how the film painted only the liberals as the “good guys”
@@christopherwithers319 I wouldn't recommend it but as long as you're a grounded Catholic and won't be swept away by any heresies in the movie, I'd say it's safe to watch. It looks beautiful, it's just the messages of the movie that are ugly. But feel free to see it and come back and tell me what you thought! Thanks for commenting!
@ it is very well acted and overall production quality is excellent…would have been great if not for the really strange and unnecessary ending. It kind of depends on whether or not you like the idea of the Pope having a very rare “gender situation” 😬
No, the ending was 💯 blasphemy. Don’t waist time trying to convince someone with goblin-brain why, especially out of a false sense of charity. That time has past. Let the devil gather his own.
@@southernbella8503 I like JESUS OF NAZARETH (1977) ✝️, JESUS (1979) ✝️, and THE PASSION (2004) ✝️. I also like THE CONFLICT (1973) ✝️. (Also known as CATHOLICS) And I like THE LION THE WITCH AND THE WARDROBE (1988) ✝️, PRINCE CASPIAN (1989) ✝️, VOYAGE OF THE DAWN TREADER (1989) ✝️, and THE SILVER CHAIR (1990) ✝️. No problem. I'm happy I saw your video. 🤠
Awesome video! Pretty thorough break down! It also appears that you've upgraded your video and audio quality! Looking and sounding great!
Thanks for watching! I'm doing my best!
Looks like you've got a good thing going with your channel! Keep it up!
I will! Thank you!
Living in Germany I haven't seen the movie yet, but I have read the book in English and in the German translation. Your review and some of the others really make me curious to see the the film. I think we should never forget that the main objective of a movie as well as the book is to make money. Therefore the author has to exaggerate things and create dramatic effects, hence the ending. However those type of movies are actually an advertising for the catholic church as it portrays it as being a powerful, mysterious and interesting organization. People will know that it is a piece of fiction, but they will still capture the spirit. We can clean up the mistakes in it later. So in essence I think it will support catholicism.
True. Everyone's goal is the make money now a days, but that doesn't mean you can't still do it by making a legitimately good movie with solid values and true messages. I would reserve judgement until you've seen it. I think the way it looks from a trailer it appears like it could support the catholic church, but the actual movie was very different from the trailer. Let me know what you thought of it once you've seen it! Thanks for commenting!
@@southernbella8503 Hi, I will definitely watch it. Here in Germany we will get the synchronized version end of November. I liked the book actualyl very much. So I'm a little bit afraid that the movie may not be up the level of the book, but Robert Harris co-authored the script, so I hope its good. I'm somewhat dissapointed that the changed the name of the main character form the Italian "Lomeli" in to "Lawrence". - I'll see in 2 weeks from now.
Life long, faithful Catholic. Respectfully disagree with most points of this review. The archetypes for the conservatives and liberals were a little cartoonish. However, the conservative leader advocated for literal holy war. Is that the right man for the Chair of St Peter?
Prayer is shown in meaningful ways throughout the movie. The cardinals are shown attending mass before conclave, there is a thoughtful prayer before a meal, and a tender moment of mercy and forgiveness between two cardinals expressed through prayer, in Latin no less.
Regarding the ending, how is this blasphemous? This was straight up biology. Not some “woke” attempt to get a jab at the church and it was meant to be provoking.
I think mature Catholics should see this movie and be prepared to be uncomfortable but not in a way that’s disrespectful.
Thanks so much for taking the time to reply. I totally agree that the way the conservatives and liberals were portrayed was cartoonish and exaggerated, I just meant that the politicking was likely and unfortunately accurate. Obviously the way the conservative cardinal was portrayed is not someone that should be pope, but most conservatives are not like that. There are some instances of prayer but for me it wasn’t anywhere near enough, especially for cardinals about to elect the next pope. We’ll have to agree to disagree on the ending. I found it offensive and unnecessary. Thanks for commenting! I always welcome differing opinions!
@@southernbella8503 I enjoyed your review, nonetheless. Peace be with you, sister.
As a devout Catholic of over 70 yrs. I very highly recommend this movie
I'm glad you enjoyed it! While I did think it was a very well-produced film, there were just too many questionable messages in here for me to feel comfortable recommending it to fellow Catholics. Thanks for watching and commenting!
@@southernbella8503 agreed
It is very anti-Latin Mass which is unfortunate
It also has an extremely strange ending involving a rare gender “situation” that really seemed out of place in what was otherwise a very well acted and extremely well directed film.
The subtext is definitely not inline with Catholicism unfortunately
@@kimcage7768
In the beginning of the film, the Pope passes away.
During the conclave to select the new pope, there is a clear struggle between the conservatives and liberals .
The way the film set it up the “good guys” are the liberals .
There are two conservative candidates and one of them is presented as being somewhat anti-gay, etc. The other one is shown to have had an affair with a nun that led to a child put up for adoption.
Then the liberal candidate that ends up becoming the new Pope ends up being a person who was born an intergender hermaphrodite so they present as mail, but have a uterus and ovaries.
All along the primary protagonist is on the liberal side of the situation and in the end, makes it determination not to tell anyone about the new Pope’s secret.
It is all very wellacted and presented ; and yet it certainly challenges the church.
Sorry for the spoilers, but you asked !
I love the point you made aboit lack of prayer. On ending… I generally say “See the movie, pray, and make up your mind!”
Greetings from a fellow Catholic in Poland! I lived in USA for 8 years!
@@krystofthepolishguytalksan310 Thank you! That’s awesome! I’ve always wanted to visit to Poland. Thanks for commenting!
@@southernbella8503 I am about to post my own review of Conclave by the way! I probably am far more forgiving then you were of the movie, but God Bless You! Keep making videos!
@@krystofthepolishguytalksan310 Awesome! I’ll give it a watch! I will!
@ it’s out now!
Just a reminder that when that character was about to cast a vote for himself, the roof didn't just fall in. It was a bomb that went off very nearby.
@@davidbroughall3782 Yes, I just was trying to be vague so I wouldn’t spoil anything. 😂 Thanks for the correction!
I appreciate your perspective as I am not Catholic. I think the lack of prayer that you felt in the movie was probably intentional. Cardinal Lawrence, as you pointed out, struggles with his faith in the film, and at one point in the movie he confesses to another Cardinal that he has specifically been struggling with prayer. In one scene the Cardinal that has just been disgraced by scandal asks Cardinal Lawrence to pray for him. Of course Cardinal Lawrence agrees, but the scene cuts before he prays. I think this is at least a depiction of how prayer becomes harder as doubt increases; it could indeed be saying something deeper than that as well. Either way, I think that was an intentional plot choice and not so much an omission on the part of the writers.
I can totally see that, and I hadn't thought about it before! Make sense why the film felt more like an American presidential election over a process guided by the Holy Spirit. I also think that the filmmakers were not really out to make a movie glorifying Church and prayer in the first place, and so I think they left it out since they likely don't even understand/believe in that aspect of Christianity. Great take! Thanks for commenting!
The novel - which I read - is a bit different, I think. There, you will find cardinals that really pray and ponder what God will think of their attitude - especially the main character, Jacopo Cardinal Lomeli (Cardinal Lawrence in the film). And the difference between "liberals" and "conservatives" is much more nuanced, conflicted and complicated - as it should perhaps be.
SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER
Cardinal Tamblay is regarded more as a "liberal", but in the end he is found to be a symoniac; one of the worst sin a Catholic prelate - indeed a Christian - could make. And Bellini, the supposed head of the "liberals", is willing to tollerate a symoniac Pope as long as the "ultraconservative" Tedesco is not elected. I believe these things happen in the film too (I haven't seen it yet), but in the novel they are highlighted and articulated. Adayemi is regarded as a homophobe, which is rather bad of course - but then one has to consider that these ideas are not uncommon in Africa. And yet, when the cardinals seem to be finally inspired by the Holy Spirit and walk sure-footed to the Chapel to cast their final vote, you see Adayemi chanting beautiful and holy hymns with his powerful voice.
As for the final "twist", though, I think it's better in the film than in the novel. In the film, Benitez could pass off basically as a man with some... internal issues. In the novel it is different; "he" has got external deformed female genitalia, which assumes are malformed male ones (to be fair, this is also because Benitez came from a very poor cultural background). Now, I am not a doctor, an anthropologist nor a theologian by any stretch of the imagination, but I believe that Catholic theology assumes that there are only two natures in the human beings - male and female. But there are also those who are "prevalent" male and female; the former might be ordained. This might be possible in the film, but in the novel? I do not know.
The quote from Jesus, regarding the question of certainty and doubt, is not present in the novel, nor is Benedict XVI anywhere regarded as a nazi.
@@maxdepasquale2351 Well that’s good to know! Thanks for commenting!
@@southernbella8503 No, let me thank you.
God bless.
The people involved in making this movie do not just hate our church, but our religion in its entirety. And when I see how much our faith bothers them, I can't help but smile. Keep up the good work, regards from Croatia!
True! It is a bit hilarious that they spend so much time, money, and effort on a propaganda film. If you don’t care about us and don’t think we’re relevant, why are you spending money trying to destroy us? Thanks for watching and commenting!
I was very pleased with this film after having seen Immaculate earlier this year, i was very disappointed by that film.
I think Conclave is going in a direction that good Catholic thrillers and horror can be, there is a real evaluation and deliberation of different ideas present in Catholic culture.
I agree with you about the conservative cardinal, although i do think there are religious leaders like him in the church that should be critisized, conflating traditional aspects of catholisism like latin and architecture with racism is quite shallow. I think they could have made a better distinction between the traditional parts of the culture and "traditional ideology" because racists or religious extreamists will say they are defending tradition when they're really just defending their personal ideology.
@@flamingo6828 Oh, I interesting. I’ve never seen Immaculate. I can see your point and I agree there likely are cardinals like that, I’ve just never seen any that loved Latin and tradition and were also racists. True, I just hate it when a movie like this implies that conservatism is somehow linked to racism. As if you can’t have one without the other. Good points! Thanks for commenting!
@@southernbella8503 I forgot to say earlier, that Tedesco seems to be a better character in the novel than he is in the movie. In the former, Robert Harris has him start a reasonable conversation or speech, "to tip the scales" at the end. Thus, he is not as bad and slimy as he may look like in the latter.
True that, he was a harsh critic of the late, deceased Pope, and he would like to return the Church to what it was under the likes of Pius X. But was Pius X a bad Pontiff? I think not. Perhaps, not the right Pope for the XXI century (but who am I to judge the Holy Spirit's work?).
@@maxdepasquale2351 Oh interesting! I heard Ben Shapiro read the book and I found that interesting since he's not even Catholic. It's good to hear that the book didn't seem to be as bad as the movie.
@@southernbella8503 Probably true (the movie hasn't hit these shores as of yet), but I think that one may find the "final twist" more implausible - if not openly offensive to the Church - in the novel than in the film.
Which is really a shame, because for what I gather the novel otherwise seems to be more sensible and respectful of the Church and our relationship with God.
Agree with you on the ending. They don't do the equivalent to Muslims. I wonder why...
Exactly. Isn’t it ironic how Hollywood won’t touch Islam, but it’s always open season on Catholicism. Thanks for commenting!
I agree with you in everything. My only disagreement is not recommending to see the movie. I think it is still worth seeing for the beautiful cinematic experience and the process of Conclave. The ending did made me cringe as well. But it still important to see what the movies message.
Totally agree with you about the beauty of the cinematography. It really was an aesthetically pleasing movie, but I’m just concerned for uninformed Catholics; I wouldn’t want them to fall into heresy watching this movie. If only the message of the movie could’ve been as beautiful as the shots. Thanks so much for commenting!
I liked the movie right until the very end
@@andrewbaerwalde3706 I know! If it wasn’t for the ending, I might say it’s OK to watch, but the ending totally ruined it for me and made me feel like I was being away the whole time; (which I was). I would still say it’s not a great movie without ending, but with the ending is an absolute no for me. thanks for commenting!
@ i completely agree! I was entertained by most of the movie and they just threw that weird twist ending in their and I felt insulted as a catholic myself it was like being told to my face that I needed to change my views as a catholic…honestly I wanted to boo in the theater when I saw that “big reveal” lol
@ SAAAME! It was incredibly insulting. I almost left the theater.
@@southernbella8503 exactly! But looking back on it I should have seen this kind of extreme liberal message coming considering how the film painted only the liberals as the “good guys”
While I liked this movie much more than Southern Bella, I thought she made a lot of very good points.
@@jonathanharvey1451 Thank you!
Agree that the end was not only terrible but unnecessary
Glad we agree! Thanks for watching and commenting!
They all should have prayed in the movie prayer is everything the shoes of the fisherman was a lovely movie where to Anthony Quinn
I know I haven't saw the movie I'm afraid to watch it I might be disappointed after looking at the lady giving me the review
@@christopherwithers319 I wouldn't recommend it but as long as you're a grounded Catholic and won't be swept away by any heresies in the movie, I'd say it's safe to watch. It looks beautiful, it's just the messages of the movie that are ugly. But feel free to see it and come back and tell me what you thought! Thanks for commenting!
@ it is very well acted and overall production quality is excellent…would have been great if not for the really strange and unnecessary ending.
It kind of depends on whether or not you like the idea of the Pope having a very rare “gender situation”
😬
No, the ending was 💯 blasphemy. Don’t waist time trying to convince someone with goblin-brain why, especially out of a false sense of charity. That time has past. Let the devil gather his own.
Glad we can agree that the ending was 100% unnecessary! Thanks for commenting!
amen
I know how this movie ends. And I have no desire to see it. I am tired of the WOKE nonsense. YES. The ending of this film makes a mockery of religion.
Totally agree. Thanks for commenting!
@@southernbella8503 I like JESUS OF NAZARETH (1977) ✝️, JESUS (1979) ✝️, and THE PASSION (2004) ✝️. I also like THE CONFLICT (1973) ✝️. (Also known as CATHOLICS) And I like THE LION THE WITCH AND THE WARDROBE (1988) ✝️, PRINCE CASPIAN (1989) ✝️, VOYAGE OF THE DAWN TREADER (1989) ✝️, and THE SILVER CHAIR (1990) ✝️. No problem. I'm happy I saw your video. 🤠