The '83 Wagoneer rebuild is dead! CAR WIZARD gets burned by another shop!
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- Опубліковано 21 бер 2022
- Repairs don't always go as planned and this is not exception for the CAR WIZARD 🧙♂️ on this 1983 Jeep Wagoneer. See how he gets burned by another shop's work and the plan to fix it.
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Builder of engine supposedly did the full break in procedure and a dyno run. So that supposedly was done before we got the engine to install.
@@criticalevent poor assembly
Crappy flat tappet hydraulic lifters is a dicease now days, they are made of butter. And that busted lifter fills the whole engine with metal. Coolant and rod/main bearing are not the best of friends either. If the oil film in the bearing got replaced by coolant for a second or five that would damage the bearings. The engine oil will be at the top of the oil pan and the coolant at the bottom of the pan, the oil pump will suck nothing but coolant.
The only viable lifter options are old unused lifters or hydraulic roller.
Check out uncle Tony's garage here on UA-cam, he has some videos about lifters. The same thing seems to happen everywhere.
Is it true they call you Carwizard because.. when Hoovie gets the hourly bill, he says omg your a pokemon!
There is a rash of bad cams and lifters out there from major supply houses. That may have been the issue.
That engine was not broken in properly seen it a million times.
Man, look at how dark that piston rod was that was seized up compared to the one that moved freely. Must have been some tremendous friction / heat. Car Wizard, keep up the great content!
11:20 Yep... 206 SEATTLE
The piston skirt looks pretty scuffed too.
thats what shesaid
@@marsgal42 Yes, once the piston pin tried to seize in the piston, the piston started scuffing on the cylinder wall.
Bad cam takes out lifter, push rod takes out the block, coolant in oil takes out the wrist pin??? It did run for awhile but got progressively worse. Perhaps a short dyno cycle proving start/run was all it got before it ate itself.
The Wizard and his wife are just genuinely good people. Plain and simple. Bless them both.
First thing I thought of when he said it was a failure of a rebuilt engine is "lifters/cam".
The aftermarket is rife with cam + lifter failures, has been for a while now - Chinese-sourced cam/lifters
have been failing left and right out there, especially those sold by Comp Cams and the like.
Couple that with a market flooded with modern oils that lack zinc and phosphorus and rebuilt engines
are failing by the dozens out there.
*Flat tappet cams must have zinc (ZDDP) in order not to wipe the cam out and/or have lifter failure!*
Couple that with cheaper-sourced Chinesium cams/lifters and there you go...
Market is full of low quality cam and lifters, for lifters I always using best no mater what is the price and for camshafts even from famous cam producers I always double check them in machine shop, two years ago I bout a camshaft from a famous cam builder that I don`t want mention their name for Pontiac 455 engine and after checking with machine shop right out of the box it has major problems! I send it back with machine shop declaration about the problem and they changed it for me but if you install them without checking and also cleaning passages and holes it will ruin the engine. about lifters you cant inspect every of them tearing them apart etc. only way is to buy best from best manufacturers.
You are right my friend my boss and myself put a reman 4.3 v6 in a 1996 Chevy truck for a dude he bought his own engine it lasted less than a month wiped out the roller camshaft junk parts are starting to make folks look really bad
@houtan arefi im a professional engine machinist and the quality of parts nowadays is horrendous. I've had to spend at least 3-4 times longer inspecting parts because there is no qc anymore. And people wonder why there's no warranty on anything. I can't guarantee parts the manufacturers can't.
90s - 2000s VW TDIs have flat tappets and they don't need zinc stuff
@@rkan2 they need rotella which does have zinc and phosphorous in it. All diesel engines use flat taplet cams and they all need zinc oil
In the past 6 months I've had 3 remanufactured engines with lifter failure. From what I'm told by two different builders is there's no good lifters in the states right now... Well, there are they're just not easy to get right now.
Uncle Tony has had the same problem and had said the same thing. It's all cheap Chinesium..
I've seen multiple videos talking about this. It appears the only way to get guaranteed good lifters is to go with a roller cam.
I had a rebuild for my 1985 Grand Wagoneer. Rebuild was from rhymes with Casper. Coolant leak from day 1. Why not repaired under the 1 year 12,000 mile warranty? Didn't drive enough during that first year to notice. 4 shops later, still leaking! So there it sits, it's only been 12 years!
It's good the lifter failed though, those bearings are not looking good and the rod that's semi seized on the piston pin is just atrocious. This engine probably wouldn't have made it far.
But wrist pins don’t adjust themselves with lifters two completely different issues
I just finished up the rebuild of my 1979 Corvette including new lifters and pushrods . Did everything properly, but the lifter failed and wiped my cam lobe! They were comp cam lifters, guess the metal is poor quality nowadays.
Same here. Just had a lifter failure on L-82 engine. Lifters weren't hardened.
@@kennethdavis9987 mine is an L-82 as well! I have new Chevrolet performance lifters on the way, supposedly made in America so I'm hoping better quality metal (better be at the price point). As well as a NOS L-82 cam.
@@thorfalero7838 I used an Isky cam and Johnson lifters. Waited a few months for parts but it should live this time.
I have had this happen to me twice with the same 350, both cam and lifter sets were Comp...won't be doing that again. I have a Howard's cam and lifters now. I've also put together quite a few sbc's and never had an issue before.
@@kennethdavis9987 Woah woah woah wait wait -- THIS, YOU SAID IT: "Lifters weren't hardened."
That makes complete and total sense. Hardening costs 💰. Chinese suppliers are notorious for cutting corners almost out of spite. We need to stop buying their trash.
Hey wizard dont feel bad about the cam and lifters. Have seen it 2 times this week with less than 10 miles. It's the quality of the parts . Or rather the lack of quality. Same exact issues. The lifters looked exactly like yours do.
Add zinc to the oil.
Hi Mr & Mrs W! Loved this episode because out of tragedy it looks like you are going to step in to save the day for this customer, (and I always LOVE a happy ending 😊) I also want to say how beautiful the interior on that truck looks, I can see the customer has already put a lot of love into this project and he has my absolute respect! Peace and love guys! 💕
Might wanna check the lifters in the "rat jeep" engine. If they're good, use them. Only cheap Chinesium lifters to be found out on the market right now, and they have a high failure rate. Lots of experienced builder has had trouble with lifters, no matter what brand it says on the box. So I wouldn't be to hard on the builder.
A new cam will require new lifters, you cannot re-use lifters on a new cam because the same thing will happen but to all the lifters this time. If you can't get good quality lifters (I would be surprised at that) then machine tool steel solid lifters.
This is true about modern replacement flat tappet lifters. Let's play devils advocate though, because that still would not explain the piston to wristpin tolerances.
@@mikejohns3104 Maybe particles of material from the damaged lifter and/or cam that found their way in there, is it possible ?
Wow you'd think with hundred plus year old technology like valve lifters, even the Chinese wouldn't be able to get them this wrong!
Use better hardware or ARP bolts
Talking about the worn out cam lobe and lifter, @10:11 quote: "with that cylinder, that's the one that actually we saw that has the hole in the block", however, the video shows the lifter bore with the hole is #1 intake, and the camshaft with the worn cam lobe is #3 exhaust (7th lobe from the front). Apparently, the worn out cam lobe is a separate issue from the lifter bore with the hole.
Conveniently left out that tidbit of information. I want to see the next engine running, and if it shits the bed, apologize to the first builder.
I was thinking the same thing. The bore with a hole above it was up front on the left bank. That destroyed lobe was further back on the cam. … wonder what caused the hole above the lifter bore…
Also it's hard to believe that much cam/lifter wear from running the engine a short time. I don't think they put in a new cam with lifters. They're the old ones.
@@bobbamford5207 Yeah, that lifter damage would only occur from running without oil when talking about such short amount of time! Something's not adding up.
Many years ago I paid a "professional race engine builder" to do machine work on a engine for me. They left LOTS of metal shavings in the motor. The metal shavings would travel in the engine and knock out the bearings every time I started it. I had to take it to another shop to have it hot tanked and flushed. After that it was one of the best engines I ever built.
As an fsj owner, as far as I know there aren't any rebuilders that build amc engines worth a damn. The only way I've been told to ensure a reliable rebuild is either do it yourself or find someone that specializes in amcs or jeeps, and that's still not gonna shield you from parts failures from the substandard lifters that we can get new.
They over torque em a lot of times , they probably used small block chevy torque specs and hung the pistons with a torch.
Used to have a 1986 Grand Wagoneer with that AMC 360 engine. With all the emissions, carb and vacuum crap on that thing they almost never run right. I ended up selling mine when the market heated up on them. Heard the guy I sold it to made a huge profit on it a couple years later.
My '82 ran perfect for my 3 years of ownership with all stock emissions. But with age and all the vacuum controlled stuff if it starts degrading you are in for difficult times. When they are right and not hacked or decayed they run perfect in my experience.
Now you can raise the compression ratio up to get the most efficiency out of the fuel injection by using flat top pistons instead of the dished stock style pistons. Stock is only 8 to 1, as I recall.
8.0:1 compression and that big 3500-8000 RPM intake meant for a huge cam, huge heads, 3000 stall and 4:10 gears ...yikes. Might want to fix that too
@@MaliciousSRT Fuel injection and dual plane manifolds don’t get along all that well, it’s a very well documented issue. And with this being an AMC mill, intake choice is probably not great. It might look goofy, but it’ll run good when it’s done…
I'd go 12 1/2 to 1 to match that tunnel ram intake. 560 lift, 320 duration cam. Might as well get some Edelbrock aluminum heads with titanium valves, heard they work best at altitude, but that's me.
I was going to cut the builder some slack because I’ve heard that there’s bad cams and lifters going around but the wrist pins are on them. So I’m with you, crappy builder using inferior parts.
All of the damage I could see from the brief glimpses of the damaged parts say oil starvation to me. I'd be looking at the oil pick up and pump for the cause.
I had the same experience with a fancy "Pro" Machine Shop 50 years ago. I learned I was better at rebuilding an engine than a Machine Shop. Rather than mess with the '67 Chevy I traded the car in on a new Volkswagen Karmann Ghia.
Once you get past the cam / lifter failure (with a new rebuild), it is VERY important that you run a zinc additive in your oil. This is because all flat tappet / camshaft systems require zinc to lubricate the contact between flat tappet lifters and the camshaft and modern engine oil no longer has zinc in it. All modern automotive engines use roller lifters/cams.
I even run zinc additive in my lawnmower and snowblower.
That's certainly an interesting aspect. Easily the kind of knowledge that wasn't really widely understood in its day (just how many mechanics understand exactly how oil works?), and lost to the mists of time in the modern era.
All flat tappet cams require Zinc additive. If roller lifters are available use them if possible.
Valvoline VR1
There are engine oils that still have sufficient zinc
@@MrCarGuy Rotella still does in their t4 & t5 series oils supposedly. It’s a decent price too, not nearly the cost of valvoline racing oil and they make it in lighter flavors 5-30 10-30 etc
I am glad you found out why it failed and it wasn’t your shop! Thanks for another terrific video! Stay safe and stay healthy!
it could have been his shop
If possible I would do a roller cam with a grind close to stock. I’ve heard that it is impossible to find good lifters for a flat tappet cam as was mentioned in other comments.
Maybe another reason to use a hemi.
I don't know why they're bothering with the rat Jeep engine. They should just get a later magnum block. It would have a roller cam from the factory
Thanks for the great content MR Wizard!
While 1 bad build shouldn't completely make a shops name you have to find a shop you trust that will stand behind their own work.
Company I work at bought a new 2020 F350 and it got 2500 miles and puked the entire bottom end on the freeway. When it got to the shop on the flat bed it was missing all but #1 and #8 pistons and the center section of the crank. As I said it literally puked its guts on the freeway.
New engine and it now has 250k on it.
People make mistakes and new parts can be defective. Cams going out dump tons of debris that can take out lots of other parts.
And no I would not go back to the first shop again. Glad to see the Wizard is staying away from trashing others as not all the variables are known.
We had an 89 Caravan in the shop with a blown 2.5L engine. We went through 4 remans before we got one that didn't have a rod knock. Customer wasn't too happy about it, but realized it wasn't our fault. Needless to say we stopped using that supplier.
Who was it ? Name names its only fair
@@nickmalone3143 It was 25 years ago...I don't remember.
Last year I paid $$$ for an engine rebuild in my plane. I've looked at the break-in process as having three milestones:
Crib death: 5 hours, if something is really wrong it will happen quickly.
Karma: 10 hours, letting things settle in after taking anything that far apart.
Resume normal operation: 20-25 hours, first oil change.
What kind of plane do you fly? I deliver to a local aircraft engine rebuilder here in Nova Scotia. Pretty cool place...
@@Stahodad Beech 23 Musketeer. Built for comfort, not for speed. 😎
The plane in my profile picture is an Arrow. Nice plane. Not mine. 🙁
Problem is if a plane breaks then it’s kinda hard to pull over
Feel so sorry for the guy. Looking forward to getting your re-built car back, then it implodes 😩
That's me. Had my viper motor rebuilt and upgraded. Failed at 635 miles exactly.
Glad you are putting out videos daily wizard. Well done.
No excuse for this, rebuild problems can really get rough. Hey, you came through with a solution, as usual. You're a real wizard if you ask me. Good stuff.
I’ve been in that situation, but it came with the pickup I bought. Pulled it stuck another engine in it. Got an offer for the one I pulled. It still ran it was just off. It was an economy builder where you trade your engine and get a cheap rebuilt one. You get what you pay for at these places whether it’s a trade in or just a cheap overhaul with no machine work.
Thanks for being a blunt, honest man and mechanic. Hope your customer gets restitution out of the other party.
Hey Wizard & Mrs Wizard, I thought I was going to throw up when I saw the carnage bestowed on this poor Jeep!!! I'm glad that you have honesty & integrity on your side & can get this Jeep done correctly!!! 👍👍
I was thinking the project was over and I was sad thats a really nice jeep to just let die im glad you guys are putting a engine back in it
Sometimes its crap parts, sometimes an incompetant builder. Seen both. We once had a fresh rebuilt 4g63 engine (from a very well known shop) that wouldn't build oil pressure. Upon teardown, my friend discovered that the main bearings were installed backwards, blocking oil flow. Among other issues. Thankfully, it was caught early enough to save most of the engine.
Wizard, In my experience having a flat tappet cam go flat is not altogether uncommon. The quality of aftermarket parts now is so absolutely terrible. BUT the stiff piston is inexcusable, and would have blown up the engine regardless of the cam. You should also keep in mind the valve spring set up, and sometimes if you use too heavy of a spring, the cam will go flat. Also, I'm not sure the intake manifold is correct, looks like a Vic Jr single plane race manifold, you should swap out for a dual plane manifold, use the stock manifold or Edelbrock Airgap RPM (dual plane), and it will give you better runability/drivability and bolster low speed power. In any event love the channel Thanks!!!
The stiff piston wrist pin and the wiped connecting rod bearing surfaces are a 'symptom' of loss of lubrication due to coolant mixing with the oil and lost lubricity. They are a symptom of the soft lifter or cam which caused the push rod to lose its seating and punch a hole in the block for coolant to enter the oil sump.
Truthfully this is unfortunate but the explanation the so called wizard made is hyperbolic. The builder may have done everything correct other than using Chinese lifters and camshaft.
Yes, hardness checks could have been performed as part of pre build part inspection aka quality control like any Nascar or F1 engine but engine builders generally develop a track record of good faith and rapport with their parts suppliers to prevent this issue. In other words, they build a lot of engines that work just fine with the same parts. This wasn't the engine builder's fault other than relying on a poor parts distributor....or one that got a bad batch after a long track record of good batches. We don't have the full story and the real story is rarely told. The customer could have worked with the original engine builder...I would have...and try to make good or certainly get his money back. The customer overreacted. When you have an engine build you go to a good engine builder with good reputation so when sh!t hits the fan and it can with the best of intentions, the shop will stand behind their work and a rare anomaly because they earned their reputation and why you go to them.
I, too, think that a high rise single plane Victor Jr.-type manifold is completely wrong for this application, unless it's got the cams, valves, flowed heads, headers, and high stall speed turbine to go with it and take it sand duning or mud bogging.
Good advise! Performer intake better for street.
@@petrolbokehlicious Yup, I caught that too. For those unaware, a big single plane intake like that is for racing, IIRC most only work from 3000+ RPM and higher, this thing needs a dual plane, performer or performer rpm, that thing looks like a Victor jr lol
not true i use a vic jr with aftermarket fuel injection and it works better then a dual plane.
That's a shame. What a great Jeep too. I'm sure the owner can't wait to drive it again.
Wizard - I am the proud second owner of a 1989 Mercury Grand Marquis LS 50th Anniversary edition 4 door sedan in Dark Blue Metallic paint with only 68,000.0 miles ! This car runs and drives like new and looks like it just came out of the showroom. I enjoyed your video about your tan Mercury personal car. This just proves that these wonderful cars are still available if you look for them. My other two cars are a 1987 Ford Crown Victoria wagon which I have owned since 1988 and a 1991 Ford Crown Victoria Wagon that I have owned since 2001. All are in excellent shape and the 1987 has almost 250,000.0 miles on it and runs like a watch. My fourth vehicle is my 1966 Jeep J-2000 Gladiator Pickup that I still plow snow with. Old Jeeps are great ,rugged vehicles .
I remember watching a video on a channel called Uncle Tony's Garage where he talked about how some auto parts stores/suppliers will sometimes accidentally resell parts that have been returned as defective by customers.
He said that he was working on a project went to buy some lifters and was "amazed" when he got back to his shop and inspected that parts only too realize that he'd seen that particular part a few weeks earlier (he said he wrote down all the particulars of it and kept the recipts) and had actually returned it as defective before he used it in a project he was working on.
Apparently its a relatively common problem where parts are returned as being defective but aren't marked as such so the stockboy re-shelves them and they get sold on to the next person who doesn't think to do a detailed inspection pre-install, that could well be what happened here.
Could be counterfiet parts
@@nickmalone3143
Made in China no doubt.
It wasn't that long ago that counterfeit chinese made aircraft parts were a huge problem for that industry, they actually found some on Air Force One after an investigation into a plane crash in norway was attributed to counterfeit bolts that were used to secure the APU in said plane which failed in flight and caused it to go into an uncontrollable nosedive and break up mid flight over the north sea near denmark.
Had a 1982 Cherokee with a 258 c.i. and 4 speed manual. Took it literally to hell and back here in Australia. Great vehicle. Traded it on a V8 Cherokee, biggest mistake I ever made.
I suggest going with a roller lifter and cam set up. The flat tappet lifters on the market are pretty crappy high failure rate similar to what you found in that engine. That wrist pin holy smokes wrong part for sure.
The Car Wizards has the coolest walk on UA-cam! I'd love to see a continuous loop video of him just walking around with Pantera's WALK as the background music!
Unfortunately there are a lot of shops that do shoddy work like this. Lucky I have a friend that I can trust. He's done several engines for me and not a single one has ever had a problem.
If it's possible, whatever block used needs roller lifters.
Too many don't know how to do a proper break in for a flat tappet engine.
The main problem is the lifters from chyna are sh.it💩
Thats why I never rebuild. Ive gotten burned so many times by rebuilds and/or rebuilders that I just don't do it no more.
Great video Car Wizard, good to see you saving another old Jeep - good to see it getting done right,
I like that pinstriping with the waves and mountains in it. So much more attention to detail than I feel cars (most products) get now.
I’m going to be honest. It might not have been the builders fault. There is a known rash of bad cam to lifters running around out there just poor quality stuff from the builder of the camshaft and lifters not the builder of the engine. It might be that the metal from that took out that connecting rod as well. It really might not be their fault
We had an engine go bad (from defective lifters) during the first 5 minutes of break-in on our shop dyno. We had to completely strip the engine down, wash everything, polish the crankshaft, re-assemble with new bearings, gaskets etc, and upgrade to a hydraulic roller cam, with roller lifters that are made in America. In the end, the client received a good engine, but we lost money on that deal.
I thought it was kind of evident if you can't for sure say exactly where, why and how, you have to consider all possibilities. I'm with you on this one.
Yeah going as far as claming SHAME ON the builder and then not having solid proof it is the builders fault... yeah IDK about that one. Im with you here. Throwing shame was a bit over the top for me.
That doesn't explain the seized connecting rod and bad main bearings.
Doesn't explain that wrist pin
i think as a shop owner I wouldn't allow someone to bring their own motor unless they signed something before hand saying, if its breaks its not my fault
Seems like he did as he’s not taking the responsibility… did you watch the video?
@@LvLdGhost he's using a replacement block from his own inventory, did you watch the video?
Car Wizard gettin ready for Lake Season!!! Looking good, keep up the great work!!!
Car Wizard is the Mr. Rodgers of Mechanics. Always calm, cool, soft spoken and in control.
It would be interesting to see the reaction from your engine builder when he sees all the parts!
AMC' V8's have a not so great oiling system. And it might have out of spec rotor clearance for the oil pump in the front cover. And they are prone to poor oiling at the back of the block.
The oil issue to the rear mains is an easy fix. And it normally only comes into play at sustained high rpm operation. There are a number of things to do with the oiling system between the pump and the pick-up. One is to eliminate any casting flash and port match the front cover and block. Another thing is to do that ever is needed to ensure proper drainback from the top of the engine. Poor crank and rod oiling is a possibility on any OHV V-8 with hydraulic lifters where the lifters get oiled first. Oil is pumped into he galley and intersects the lifter bores. Oil goes into th ed lifters and up the pushrod before it gets to the passage for the mains. Also I think the oil passage to the mains from the lifter bores intersects the cam bore. The oil passage hits the side of the cam bore. Flow to the cam bearings is restricted by the size of the hole in the cam bearing shell. Also the cam bearings in these engines were line bored ai the same operation as the crank bore. The manufacturers did this so that lifter noise would be held to a minimum. In reality a high volume pump (I'm not sure if a high volume pump is available on the aftermarket front covers) can hurt more than help if there is not enough oil capacity in the pan and oil cannot drain back fast enough.
Really any of the oiling issues that can arise in an AMC Genll/lll V-8 can raise their heads in a Buick Big Block. Very similiar set-ups but not the same engines.
Probably not thebest engine to toss a new fuel setup on and figure out how to tune it either. The piston tops are SOOTY on this thing and all of the failures look to be lube related. I think they washed the bearings out getting fuel in the oil. Ive seen it a ton on not so problematic engines when guys toss a new fuel setup on at the same time as a fresh engine. It happens.
Everything you mention is true but the engine shop knew this and should have been paying attention to the oil pump clearance and the other issues.
You're a heck of a guy to help the customer with his rebuild...man that other shop sure dropped the ball. Now he can have your shop do it so it will be done right.
Buddy of mine has an Automotive machine shop and builds anything from stock to full on large drag motors. He tells me most all lifter / cam failures are due to the lack of proper break-in. He just got done with a Jeep 304 and he installed a street grind cam designed for roller lifters. I believe it was an ISKY cam and lifters. If you like I can get the part numbers he used.I’m with the other guy here get a dual plane intake intake. It will make more usable power in the rpm ranges the customer needs.
Love the content wizard! I've used alot of your tips on being a better mechanic. Especially how to get rivets out the easy way!
Is that a really old vid? I've only followed cw for about a year now but maybe i can find it.
@@stickit2theman1 it's in one of his videos showing mechanic tips.
@@matthewpugrad7013 thanks!
That thing looks beautiful, time to do it all the way right and drop a crate motor in there...as mild as a 5.7 Hemi or wild as a Heliphant!
The early roller rockers had a lot of bad needle bearings in them and would get loose and worn out quickly, letting the roller lock up and get sideways eventually, eating the affected cam lobe. They have new revised parts that are beefed up and way better quality so should be ok as long as the engine has the revised parts installed. It also was because they are using variable valve timing and cylinder deactivation to save gas. The early versions don't use vvt but can drop valve seats if they get overheated badly.
Love the hemi in my 06 Charger RT, hate the mpg.
The other Jeep brings new meaning to "rat rod". Lol Really glad you had another engine for this sweet looking Jeep Wagoneer.
Mrs Wizard never fails to make me laugh. Much love to you too! Keep up the good work.
Ok this exact same thing happened to me with a jeep 4.0 inline 6 it was my very first engine build i ever did in my life straight 6 somewhat basic and followed spec to the T. Lost the exhaust lobe on cylinder 4 and the cam and lifter looked exactly like that no damage to the block. Took it to a professional race engine builder who only builds v8 strokers and he did me a huge favor and rebuilt it and stroked it properly to a 4.99999 so a 5.0. We had to get a core block though because the stroker kit i built i got from “titan engines” and when my guy pressure tested the block they sold me 5 of the 6 sleeves were leaking so yeah theres always that. What he said more than likely happened was the sleeves were leaking coolant in the oil seized a rod bearing and basically chewed the cam up or that i got one of those bad cams floating around everyones been talking about. But my new stroker is awesome loving the knowledge i learned from this and thats what got me into custom engine building
9:03 to 9:48 Yeah I can tell just looking at that, along with the camshaft and the lobes the guy didnt do the break in period, your supposed to hold it at a set RPM to break the camshaft and the lobes in with High Zync Oil after a rebuild, then after a set amount of time, stop the engine and change the oil with the regular driving oil, so the two parts, the lifter and the lobe can learn to live together with minimal friction till they've set, otherwise this happens, you guys were probably given the engine as it was without doing the break in hence why the engine was running but was out of tune till it quit like it did and threw everything.
as that is no failure of the parts, that is the failure of the builder to disclose and do his job as the rebuilder of the motor.
M dad had a shop, which I inherited. We BOTH used the same guy to do the machine work. He never let us down over more than thirty years. When he retired,,, I did too, as we knew we were not going to find another guy like him. The relationship and trust is THAT critical.
Thank you for handling the interior this time...👍
The bearings will be taken out by the grinding swarf from the cam/lifter fail. Crank will be scrap too. Incorrect hardening on the lifter is your fail point. Bin it all.
Crank can be turned if not undersize or bearings spun
@@hotpuppy1 It can but every single oilway will be full of junk. Of course it can be cleaned but really you’d just start again at this point.
@@ruaraidhmcdonald-walker9524 He already said he was junking the whole engine and using his old bottom end for the rebuild. Heads and timing cover can be cleaned - no need to junk those.
I'd use some aditive for flat tappet cams, just in case. Or very, very, very reliable and tested oil, that has all the 'old stuff' in mind.
'no more purpose than a boat anchor'???.. My wife and I both shouted 'coffee table' simultaneously 🤣
roller cam conversion sounds like a good idea! I have heard the oil companies have removed zinc from oil which is key to the happiness of flat tappet cams.
There are a few available sources of zinc rich oil. One is Lucas Oil for hotrods.
I had something similar happen with my 98 Outback. It had a burned exhaust valve on #3 (EJ25D) at 230k miles. Mechanic had it for months. When I got it back, it died completely sounding like skeletons banging in a metal filing cabinet after only 40 MILES. Probably the angriest I’ve ever been in my life.
Oh if I'd just got my car back from a shop after engine work and it started sounding like that I'd be ready to get in a fight lol
Damn. 🪦
@@umad42 I had to wait a day before going back to the shop otherwise I very likely would have. Still gets me worked up just telling the story. Fucker is out of business now, good riddance.
@@shermanikk Hope you sued him good~
@@Flies2FLL I just wanted my damn car, it has a lot of sentimental value to me. He ended up taking a junkyard engine and rebuilding it and put that in for free. Mostly made things right but I really had to force him to agree to do it.
What did the oil filter look like?
Is it worth risking using parts from a failed engine?
If they are actually checked good and not bent and shit, there should be no issue.
Much respect to you for actually finding out what happened to the motor instead of jumping on the poor guy just trying to get the injector system to work right.
Nice piston wrist pin and self milling ( inside the engine) camshaft and lifters.
I thought you were going to say the engine blew and you took a look at the oil pump and it was attached inside the engine with bailing wire not bolts.
Car Wizard ,you might have saved this guys entire family because,if that engine blew up at seventy five miles per hour ,it could have been a real nightmare.
I also like the ammeter thing.
Car Wiuzard-"These are known for burning Jeeps to the ground.
Owner.."Yea,let's not hook that gauge up."
Engine rebuilding is a collosal pain in the rear and those unwilling to face the nightmare and do it right ,need to not rebuild engines.
You might want to gift the guy a red boot on his Rancho steering dampener.
1st class service....thanks for sharing
Not really sure about the about the rod it could have been damaged due to the lifter failure but I wouldn't blast the engine builder that much as there is a sweeping problem with bad parts going around on all kinds of different suppliers. Bad lifters cams are more common than good ones right now.
I wouldn't have even messed with having a shop do a rebuild, I would've bought a crate engine with a warranty and called it a day or swapped a nice low mileage magnum 360 and kept the injection that it came with.
No $$$ for wizard doing it right
Been down that road. Magnum 360 will bot bolt to the 727 trans, so that need to go, so then you need a new transfer case, which means that you need new drive shafts. Not to mention a cobbeled together transmission control system to make it shift up, down, and into and out of OD. The owner had the correct concept (FI the AMC 360), but his execution was faulty. You can buy a lot of gas with the money saved from NOT doing a drive train swap.
Glad to see you are working on your health David
I would love to see a detailed vid on your break in on the rebuilt engine. Show us the break in oil and the process to “mate” the lifters and the rings.
💥Rocker arm was pulled down too tight... Then the resulting metal hit the bottom end. Don't forget it was rough from the very start.
Agree, theres more to it than just soft cam/lifter combo and the wrong oil.
Mistakes happen, don't be like "shame on the builder" remember you almost messed up hoovies mercedes by not putting the correct fluid in the correct hole. People make mistakes, and we gotta treat people like people.
Yeah, I was definitely not liking the 'throw him under the bus' tone of this vid. The end of that cam was fuzzy with metal ... that could easily be the reason for the wrist pin. And given the quality of the available parts today (how many times did Hoovie's steering rack fail?) ... definitely not giving this vid a like.
10:44 exactly why he shouldn’t blame the builder, shame on the “wizard” we don’t need the discovery channel drama.
The builder lied and said the engine had been broken in and dyno'd So yes, shame on the builder.
@@21Piloteer it could have been, how many runs on the dyno we dont know. that cam and then the lifer could have failed and probably did when the customer was driving it home or on the way to the wizards shop.
It’s not like he called out the builder by name.
I can only imagine the choice of words uttered when the engine failed..., amazing how calm and compose the narrative is
thanks for actually caring about people i can actually tell the anger and the fuming i feel it take care
a lot of that can be contributed to a lifter failure the filter clogged up with all that debris was sent though the engine.
it may not even been the fault of the engine builder..
Love the car wizard, but I'm not so sure you can blame that all on the builder. Isn't it possible that there was a component failure after a certain time ?
I completely agree and have to wonder how long they ran the engine with the bad lifter. I have seen many cams go flat over the years and although they do happen quickly they’re not that hard to find or figure out. I’m not saying the rebuild was top notch but if they ran it until the engine started knocking that’s a red flag.
@10:45 he says he doesn't know why it failed but immediately blamed the builder.
Can't blame the Wizard. The motor was supposed to be broken in and dyno'd. The bearings are scored, the pistons are scuffed, it's got a tight wrist pin, and a catastrophic part failure. It's either extremely cheap parts or the tech didn't use any assembly grease, or who know what. Too many things were wrong. How did the did the builder Dyno and break it in when it wouldn't even idle. Maybe the builder wore it out on the dyno or breaking it in, and the Wizard just caught the tail end of it.
Best blog yet.
I have seen carbureted cars that struggle at Yellowstone's 10k elevation. I owned a completely stock '82 Grand Wagoneer that never had any noticeable difference at sea level or 10,000 ft elevation. All with the stock Motorcraft carb. That Jeep was my daily for 3 years in SE Idaho and may as well have been fuel injected it was so reliable from 100 deg summer temps to 10 below winter temps. The carb in proper condition and tune was absolutely flawless even left overnight in 10 below in West Yellowstone! They engineered them properly and they work great when in proper condition. Granted it was only 10 years old and 100k miles on it at the time in the mid 90's and had never been subject to a hack owner or mechanic so I felt lucky.
Hey Wizard, I really like your videos. Keep the work up man. I Appreciate it. Your consistency is really good. I hope Tavarish would learn from you.
He's growing his hair
Tavarish? Didn't he used to make videos back in the day? Hahahahah!
@@davidkroth I mean he is not consistent anymore. He was consistent a long time ago.
@@Lobo_cafetero Ok
My 84 was the same color, but in no where near as good of shape. Hear my out on this, but a 4.0L would be a good swap option. Fuel economy, power boost, nearly bolt in, and reliable as all hell.
@Rich Rishel plenty of I-6 engines in FSJs. Lets not forget lots more involved with an LS swap and you could also stroke the 4.0 to 4.7 or so and/or ad some sort of fan. Still be easier. LS swaps are also boring, and in a couple of years, outdated. You'll never get neck snapping acceleration out of one of those without spending a mountain of money. Why try? A stock HO 4.0L makes more HP than OEM (181+ vs. 144) and has a torque curve you could eat a family meal on. Lets not forget it also says "Jeep" on the engine.
end of the day, the 4.0L is longer lasting than an LS, much easier to install than the LS and more powerful than the 2B 360 it came with.
@Rich Rishel the people that want a Grand Wagoneer with wood paneling stickers and fresh carpeting in the back aren't taking them to the drag strip. Those that are would probably do a Big Block or some soot monster. I am not talking about the computer making it more work. they both need a computer. That isn't anything. The difference is the 4.0 needs to change 1 motor mount (bolt in junkyard part, no welding) and I think has the same bell housing as the OEM transmission. You've got to change an awful lot to swap in an LS. Motor mounts as mentioned, transmission, transfer case, drive shafts, speedo-output, etc. all that stuff stays with a 4.0L
The old POS I had had a 4.2 swapped in, so probably less than 100hp. I lived in probably the town with the steepest roads in the state at the time. I learned patience from that vehicle, and never got a speeding ticket since. The 4.0L is still significantly more powerful than the OEM engine. The 4.2 was quite a bit weaker than the 360.
I sure do miss my Dad's Jeep Grand Wagoneer from back when I was a kid. He ran it over 350k worth of miles and we used it fishing on the beach a lot. It finally rusted out!
Love what you are doing keep up the great work.
Such a nice Jeep, its worth putting right
The ONLY rebuilt engine I trust come from Jasper. 5 year warranty. My '71 Dodge D100 has been running on a Jasper reman slant six over 20 years.
I have horror stories involving Jasper "rebuilt" engines.
@@carmudgeon7478 5 year warranty, and it depends much on the shop that put it in. It runs whisper quiet and gets 21mpg
@@bmwloco so glad to hear your good fortune. But I must disagree. A monkey could punt a slant 6 in and get a quiet 300k out of it. At a dealership on the Colorado western slope, we would get tow-ins with "rebuilt" Jasper engines that had worn out timing chains, old hard main seals leaking, pistons on one bank put in backwards, valve springs with only one lock, etc. Because it was a vacation spot all these poor people were on vacation. Jasper would take 2 weeks to decide to honor the warranty, and about 75% of the time send it to one of the sleazy shops. Sounds like things may have improved, I hope so.
@@carmudgeon7478 And that's why I live in Appalachia. Our mountains were bigger than the Rockies... but time and erosion... and nothing much rusts here either.
@@bmwloco You remember that far back?😲
Imagine the owner of another shop going after the Tech for destroying the engine! Wizard is class act, with finding out what went bad, and not blaming the Tech!
I wanted one of these when value were going up. Couple older family members told me stay away engines and transmissions were only good for boat anchors.
Probably the easiest and cheapest solution to go out and just get a crate engine drop it in and call it a day
You don't find crate AMC engines
I've seen this before. It's lack of assembly lube and low oil pressure/quantity. I'm curious to know if the oil pump was even tested before the rebuild.
What’s that old saying?
“If you want it done right, do it yourself”
35 yrs ago, I trusted a shop to build me a Type 4 motor; that was the last time I ever trusted an engine builder
😉
My condolences to the Jeep owner
I had an 88 Wagoneer I bought used in 1991. Turns out it wasn’t such a bargain. Stayed in the shop half the time. Same 360 engine as this one.
My guess is that the bad lifter caused the stuck piston, as well as the additional wear on the bearings. That's much more reasonable and plausible to believe than the builder installed the piston with seized wrist pins or didn't use assembly lube. I'm surprised that anyone would believe that.
I’d love to see a 5.7 hemi in it.
put a 6.4!
So happy you have this Jeep now
Geeezzzzz....poor customer! Luckily he have you to fix it right! Great content Wiz!
This is why i swapped a 5.3 out of Tahoe in my grand wagoneer. Avoided all these issues and got more hp!
Welp... There's only one thing for it.
Hellcat swap.
I have had flat tappet lifter failure three time with different brands . Broke rocker arms and bent pushrods. Next time roller lifts only, the difference of $ 200.00 to $1000.00 is how many tines do you want to tear it down to finally get it right. A plus with rollers is that you do not have to use high zinc and phosphorus oils any more. I had the same problem years earlier when the oil companies didn't tell any one that they had pulled the zinc and phosphorous out of oils and had several flat tappet cams fail.
Absolutely critical on any standard flat lifter and cam combo to run a QUALITY High ZDDP Break-in oil. Comp cams had all kinds of issues with cams rolling off flat due to the surface of the cam giving up when they took the ZDDP out of standard oils. I saw several self destruct with less than 20 minutes of run time.. They used to have a good writeup on their web page, everybody got caught off guard back then.. This one is a mystery... Its been long enough any builder should know better by now..
Also that being said,, there are only a few guys left that know the ins and outs of the old AMC engines.. So you have to shop careful.