I think this is a d&d problem more than a general rpg problem. Ie, call of cthulhu often has characters leave the adventuring life after an adventure or scenarios where the PC are there due to chance without an intent to seek out the adventure.
Shorter adventures have been the key to my success in RPGs, you're entirely right, and I don't think they have to be limited to 1 session either. Between one and five sessions for smaller stories works perfectly well. In fact, shorter adventures used to be the norm, they were called modules. Small chunks of gameplay and narrative that were designed to be completed in a few sessions. D&D was heavily inspired by pulp story telling from the likes of Michael Moorcock and Robert E Howard, and going back to those pulpy roots works exceptionally well. Great video, and great moustache.
Thank you! Yes, modules are sorely missed - is it me or does it seem like everything has to be longer and longer these days? I have made myself push down to single sessions though and I am finding it's beneficial 👍🏼
@@marcushasopinions That's definitely the way things have been going. How grand your campaign is, is presented as a selling point, but just like you, I think that the longer the campaign, the more likely it is to fizzle out, for a variety of reasons. Changing schedules, loss of interest, and just the sheer amount of time they take. Who can remember the subtle clues planted early on in a campaign 2 years later?
Absolutely agreed. Short storylines (4 sessions?) are starting to feel really nice. You can still link things together over the course of a long-term campaign, but keeping things bite-sized helps keep the pacing and momentum. What a lovely channel you have! Looking forward to more!
Thank you! There is more to come - I hope you enjoy 👍 I'd love to hear what happens if you (try to) chunk down further - I really have found 1 is the magic number.
I find it interesting how people keep rediscovering this. Me included. At least as early as the Dungeon Master's Guide for D&D 3.5, this was presented as the way to play. Perhaps earlier, but that was the first DMG I ever had. Loose adventures (Chapter 3), connected through a bigger campaign (Chapter 5). It was never one continuous story taking years. Encounters make up adventures, and adventures make up campaigns. It was then reinforced again in D&D 4e's DMG. Once again, loose adventures (Chapter 6), coming together in a bigger campaign (Chapter 8). It took years of GMing to understand what it meant, but when you return back to adventures and campaigns being different, and give it a try, I feel you're rewarded with a level-up in GMing.
Thanks for commenting! It is interesting isn't it? What goes around comes around I guess, haha. I really do think that going slightly further and pushing down into single session adventures, not 2-3 sessions, has great benefits though - for pacing, rewards, and player attendance logistics.
I had a TTRPG Festival 2 months ago where I ran 8 single session adventures with pregen characters and a rotating cast of players over 6 days. It was awesome.
I have heard some say: --- We dream of running the epic saga. But it ends up as an episodic soap opera. --- I ask; who are "We" here? - "We" are people who sit in GM chairs. That ignores those who sit in the PC chairs! If you (sitting in a GM chair) aim to run an epic saga, you have set yourself up for (almost sure) failure. But, if you start out small, you are far more likely to run something people (those who sit in the PC chairs!) will remember as one of those epic sagas we dream of! What is the difference? - If you plan an epic saga, you are likely to lay out a railroad track with a specific end station in mind. You are thus likely to run a solo show, reducing those in the PC chairs to mere spectators. (The players' choices do not matter.
I've done this all of once before, but in my defense I didn't run many games. The idea was a random, ridiculously goofy one-off session. I told everyone to roll up the wackiest character they've ever wanted to. Most didn't do anything particularly remarkable, but one friend made an oompa-loompa while my gf at the time made a tonberry. The whole session was filled with outrageous cartoon and video game tropes, plus I had a room where a bunch of Care Bears were dancing to Rick Astley's Never Gonna Give You Up. Everything was done with D&D 3.5e and supported by actual abilities and spells in those books. The overall goal was to inject some new ideas in the regular GMs, since I felt their sessions were getting predictable and stale. Sadly it (mostly) failed at that, but only 2 of the 5 people playing didn't have a lot of fun with it, so I count it as largely successful. Also my best friend at the time did use some of my methods for spontaneity when he started running his own games. I also had a lot of fun with it, though I will say it was pretty tiring to spend an entire session just running with whatever came into my head. If I'd been given the chance to do that again, I definitely would've planned more out ahead of time.
I certainly wouldn't recommend entirely winging it without a lot of experience to draw on, that sounds really brave of you! And it sounds like you inspired a new GM so well done you 👍
My shortest session was one session where my player uncovered a conspiracy to destroy a small frontier village from the inside, mediated a deal between the forgotten protector deity (who was definitely not a devil…) for the sacrifices in the form of everyone who wishes to harm the village and managed to take down the two moles, thus securing the future of the small village
I'm one of the players in Marcus's Impulse Drive sessions and I can confirm that this episodic approach he takes keeps everything feeling as if the action is unfolding at a rip-roaring pace, without sacrificing the gradual building of the overall story arc. An interesting point on this is that because we're used to this way of doing things now and have come to expect it, it actually has an impact on our decisions as players too. So, for example, I've noticed we've got more decisive as time has gone on - that's to say, for instance, that there's no way we would do the equivalent of spending 45 minutes looking for traps in a corridor, because we know that's not the point. So, it's a virtuous circle, really - we know we're aiming to conclude each adventure within a single session, so we tend to make bolder decisions as a result, which in itself keeps the action going, and this presumably helps Marcus out with the flow of his game running as well.
Hi Russtmantle! Thank you for confirming my observations - I feel it really has made a difference. I think it has empowered your characters and made them more dynamic 👍
I really think they are. My current campaign has been going for over a year and a half and the party is still engaged. While I don't normally run single-session adventures (my group's a little too large for that), I really do think one of the reasons they're still playing is that I do play old-style D&D with shorter adventures rather than a single epic campaign. They get to do more things and have less stress because they can take a break and not worry about the overarching plot--because there isn't one. They've had their wins and the game is better for it.
Thank you for commenting! That does sound a lot better - I think some DM's/GM's are frustrated fantasy novelists and want their stories epic, but episodes have been the way to go for me. How many are in the group?
I've always preferred chaining together small adventures that form a larger story arc. IMO, this helps players learn the game world and helps invest them in the lore, while still weaving them into a larger epic adventure. Subbing for more of your opinions :-)
Thanks for the sub! That sounds like a great plan. I do think it makes for a more responsive campaign, as you can see what sort of content you/they enjoy and cater to that.
@@marcushasopinions "you can see what sort of content you/they enjoy and cater to that." ~ exactly! I've never been one to run campaigns that have a pre-established BBEG and / or a predetermined story arc. I run what I call a "guided sandbox". I throw a handful of different adventure hooks in the water and see what the players bite on. Then I build out from there, only staying a few steps ahead of them so that I can be flexible. After a few adventures you get a feel for what the players like / want, and a story arc begins to form itself.
Hi, glad you're enjoying it! For me, and my players scheduling, a session is typically 2 to 2.5 hours - I've found they've shortened to this as I've gotten older. Are yours the same?
One thing that i always find foundational to advice based around the session... How long are your sessions? Designing an adventure for two hours after school versus eight hours on a weekend provide very different opportunities for detail and depth.
Hi Barry - good question! I'm using this template for sessions that are typically two and a half hours. It's been amazing to me how much more dynamic the players act when they know they're expected to get it done in that length of time. Eight hours at the weekend is heroic - how have you found those?
@@marcushasopinions My games are also about 2-3 hours, usually. After that I need some time off to consider how everyone's actions have changed the direction the story is going. I have a friend who grew up in the original D&D days, and his experience was definitely that roleplaying was an all day thing; whenever we talk about maybe playing something, I have to remind him that I'm just talking about hanging out for a couple hours after work.
@@BarryFigrim I remember a 12 hour D&D session when I was at college, I think it was a sponsored charity thing. I'd never attempt more than an evening - I'm old now and I get tired 😂
nowadays i look at completion times if they are like 30 hours plus for an rpg i dont bother unless its ff. when playing shooters 8 hours max , and story based games 12 hours. Anything longer just means filler and fetch quest or running from place to place on a huge map.
I have to disagree with you friend. I play with a variety of people at my local game shop. The adventures start and stop in one 4 hour session. It is so fun. And they are not one shots. Just saying don’t knock it till you try it.
I'm tired of the brags all being about the adventure that never ended. What instead was a fun snack and not a weighty banquet?
I think this is a d&d problem more than a general rpg problem. Ie, call of cthulhu often has characters leave the adventuring life after an adventure or scenarios where the PC are there due to chance without an intent to seek out the adventure.
Shorter adventures have been the key to my success in RPGs, you're entirely right, and I don't think they have to be limited to 1 session either. Between one and five sessions for smaller stories works perfectly well. In fact, shorter adventures used to be the norm, they were called modules. Small chunks of gameplay and narrative that were designed to be completed in a few sessions. D&D was heavily inspired by pulp story telling from the likes of Michael Moorcock and Robert E Howard, and going back to those pulpy roots works exceptionally well. Great video, and great moustache.
Thank you! Yes, modules are sorely missed - is it me or does it seem like everything has to be longer and longer these days? I have made myself push down to single sessions though and I am finding it's beneficial 👍🏼
@@marcushasopinions That's definitely the way things have been going. How grand your campaign is, is presented as a selling point, but just like you, I think that the longer the campaign, the more likely it is to fizzle out, for a variety of reasons. Changing schedules, loss of interest, and just the sheer amount of time they take. Who can remember the subtle clues planted early on in a campaign 2 years later?
Exactly!
Absolutely agreed. Short storylines (4 sessions?) are starting to feel really nice. You can still link things together over the course of a long-term campaign, but keeping things bite-sized helps keep the pacing and momentum.
What a lovely channel you have! Looking forward to more!
Thank you! There is more to come - I hope you enjoy 👍 I'd love to hear what happens if you (try to) chunk down further - I really have found 1 is the magic number.
I find it interesting how people keep rediscovering this. Me included. At least as early as the Dungeon Master's Guide for D&D 3.5, this was presented as the way to play. Perhaps earlier, but that was the first DMG I ever had. Loose adventures (Chapter 3), connected through a bigger campaign (Chapter 5). It was never one continuous story taking years. Encounters make up adventures, and adventures make up campaigns.
It was then reinforced again in D&D 4e's DMG. Once again, loose adventures (Chapter 6), coming together in a bigger campaign (Chapter 8).
It took years of GMing to understand what it meant, but when you return back to adventures and campaigns being different, and give it a try, I feel you're rewarded with a level-up in GMing.
Thanks for commenting! It is interesting isn't it? What goes around comes around I guess, haha. I really do think that going slightly further and pushing down into single session adventures, not 2-3 sessions, has great benefits though - for pacing, rewards, and player attendance logistics.
I had a TTRPG Festival 2 months ago where I ran 8 single session adventures with pregen characters and a rotating cast of players over 6 days. It was awesome.
That does sound awesome, I so agree! Also it's great practice!
I have heard some say:
---
We dream of running the epic saga.
But it ends up as an episodic soap opera.
---
I ask; who are "We" here? - "We" are people who sit in GM chairs.
That ignores those who sit in the PC chairs!
If you (sitting in a GM chair) aim to run an epic saga, you have set yourself up for (almost sure) failure.
But, if you start out small, you are far more likely to run something people (those who sit in the PC chairs!) will remember as one of those epic sagas we dream of!
What is the difference? - If you plan an epic saga, you are likely to lay out a railroad track with a specific end station in mind. You are thus likely to run a solo show, reducing those in the PC chairs to mere spectators. (The players' choices do not matter.
I've done this all of once before, but in my defense I didn't run many games. The idea was a random, ridiculously goofy one-off session. I told everyone to roll up the wackiest character they've ever wanted to. Most didn't do anything particularly remarkable, but one friend made an oompa-loompa while my gf at the time made a tonberry.
The whole session was filled with outrageous cartoon and video game tropes, plus I had a room where a bunch of Care Bears were dancing to Rick Astley's Never Gonna Give You Up. Everything was done with D&D 3.5e and supported by actual abilities and spells in those books.
The overall goal was to inject some new ideas in the regular GMs, since I felt their sessions were getting predictable and stale. Sadly it (mostly) failed at that, but only 2 of the 5 people playing didn't have a lot of fun with it, so I count it as largely successful. Also my best friend at the time did use some of my methods for spontaneity when he started running his own games.
I also had a lot of fun with it, though I will say it was pretty tiring to spend an entire session just running with whatever came into my head. If I'd been given the chance to do that again, I definitely would've planned more out ahead of time.
I certainly wouldn't recommend entirely winging it without a lot of experience to draw on, that sounds really brave of you! And it sounds like you inspired a new GM so well done you 👍
My shortest session was one session where my player uncovered a conspiracy to destroy a small frontier village from the inside, mediated a deal between the forgotten protector deity (who was definitely not a devil…) for the sacrifices in the form of everyone who wishes to harm the village and managed to take down the two moles, thus securing the future of the small village
Now that sounds action packed! Thank you for sharing - I bet it was a blast to play through 👍
I'm one of the players in Marcus's Impulse Drive sessions and I can confirm that this episodic approach he takes keeps everything feeling as if the action is unfolding at a rip-roaring pace, without sacrificing the gradual building of the overall story arc. An interesting point on this is that because we're used to this way of doing things now and have come to expect it, it actually has an impact on our decisions as players too. So, for example, I've noticed we've got more decisive as time has gone on - that's to say, for instance, that there's no way we would do the equivalent of spending 45 minutes looking for traps in a corridor, because we know that's not the point. So, it's a virtuous circle, really - we know we're aiming to conclude each adventure within a single session, so we tend to make bolder decisions as a result, which in itself keeps the action going, and this presumably helps Marcus out with the flow of his game running as well.
Hi Russtmantle! Thank you for confirming my observations - I feel it really has made a difference. I think it has empowered your characters and made them more dynamic 👍
Love this. I'm writing a free TTRPG for charity, I might steal this lol
Hi there, glad it was useful! Please do - would love to know more when it's ready to read 👍
Hi Marcus, first time here. You had me at one session adventures.... West Marches?!?!?!? Keep going, Marcus.
Welcome! Glad you liked it 👍🏼 West Marches is a new name for a revived old-school idea, I've a video about it brewing for soon.
I really think they are. My current campaign has been going for over a year and a half and the party is still engaged. While I don't normally run single-session adventures (my group's a little too large for that), I really do think one of the reasons they're still playing is that I do play old-style D&D with shorter adventures rather than a single epic campaign. They get to do more things and have less stress because they can take a break and not worry about the overarching plot--because there isn't one. They've had their wins and the game is better for it.
Thank you for commenting! That does sound a lot better - I think some DM's/GM's are frustrated fantasy novelists and want their stories epic, but episodes have been the way to go for me. How many are in the group?
@marcushasopinions about a dozen though I almost never have more than 10 or 11 players at a session. Usually it's between 8 and 10.
That's a heroic number 👍
I've always preferred chaining together small adventures that form a larger story arc. IMO, this helps players learn the game world and helps invest them in the lore, while still weaving them into a larger epic adventure.
Subbing for more of your opinions :-)
Thanks for the sub! That sounds like a great plan. I do think it makes for a more responsive campaign, as you can see what sort of content you/they enjoy and cater to that.
@@marcushasopinions "you can see what sort of content you/they enjoy and cater to that." ~ exactly!
I've never been one to run campaigns that have a pre-established BBEG and / or a predetermined story arc. I run what I call a "guided sandbox". I throw a handful of different adventure hooks in the water and see what the players bite on. Then I build out from there, only staying a few steps ahead of them so that I can be flexible. After a few adventures you get a feel for what the players like / want, and a story arc begins to form itself.
Interesting content, I really like the idea! Curious, how long are your individual sessions Marcus?
Hi, glad you're enjoying it! For me, and my players scheduling, a session is typically 2 to 2.5 hours - I've found they've shortened to this as I've gotten older. Are yours the same?
One thing that i always find foundational to advice based around the session... How long are your sessions? Designing an adventure for two hours after school versus eight hours on a weekend provide very different opportunities for detail and depth.
Hi Barry - good question! I'm using this template for sessions that are typically two and a half hours. It's been amazing to me how much more dynamic the players act when they know they're expected to get it done in that length of time. Eight hours at the weekend is heroic - how have you found those?
@@marcushasopinions My games are also about 2-3 hours, usually. After that I need some time off to consider how everyone's actions have changed the direction the story is going. I have a friend who grew up in the original D&D days, and his experience was definitely that roleplaying was an all day thing; whenever we talk about maybe playing something, I have to remind him that I'm just talking about hanging out for a couple hours after work.
@@BarryFigrim I remember a 12 hour D&D session when I was at college, I think it was a sponsored charity thing. I'd never attempt more than an evening - I'm old now and I get tired 😂
Interesting concept
I agree with most of what you said
Thanks for watching! These are, of course, just opinions 😉
What I do is have one major story with several small ones leading up to it.
Thanks for commenting! Nice - and that way they might not realise it's even the major story until they're part way through it 👍
You are welcome. Also i might add, I let my players make choices that change the landscape of my kingdom as they go. Consequences.
nowadays i look at completion times if they are like 30 hours plus for an rpg i dont bother unless its ff. when playing shooters 8 hours max , and story based games 12 hours. Anything longer just means filler and fetch quest or running from place to place on a huge map.
Oh with computer RPGs I'm all about going off quest and just enjoying the detail. I think I have over a thousand hours in Fallout 4, haha 👍🏼
@@marcushasopinions wow thats dedication , saying that i have 3500 hours in pubg :P but thats online multiplayer so abit different
That's just pandering to the inability of younger people to focus for longer than 3 seconds.
My players will be excited to hear they're younger people! I think the youngest is 45 😂
I have to disagree with you friend. I play with a variety of people at my local game shop. The adventures start and stop in one 4 hour session. It is so fun. And they are not one shots. Just saying don’t knock it till you try it.