European to North American Electrical on a Boat
Вставка
- Опубліковано 22 сер 2024
- Chris wrote to us to ask, "Jeff, I have a French-built sailboat with 24V DC and 220V 50Hz Ac electrics. The horsepower here is 110V 60Hz. Could I use an onboard charger with dock power and use the battery bank to run a large inverter? The simpler would be to convert dock power directly with a freq/V converter and take its output to the boat. Can you recommend available units and solutions?"
Read our Tech Talk Article from Pacific Yachting Magazine, "European Conversion", www.pysystems....
Check out the PYS website for more information on isolation transformers, www.pysystems....
SUBSCRIBE to the PYS UA-cam Channel
www.youtube.co...
Sign up for the NEWSLETTER confirmsubscri...
Follow Us:
/ pacificyachtsystems
/ pacificyachtsystems
/ pysystems
As long as the demand on the inverter/ battery bank doesn't drain the battery bank, you would be isolated from shore power. And if the battery charger is not grounded to the boats bonding system, the under water metals are isolated from galvanic corrosion from within the vessel itself
Good summary.
Keep in mind that many/most electronics and devices work on either 50 or 60 hz. But the problematic ones are motors and compressors for air conditioners and refrigerators. Compliant ones can be sourced - theyre the inverter type typically. Other motors might have a change in performance or overheat. If you're careful itemizing your electrical system, you can make it work with just a transformer. But because your European boat has smaller guage wire, it can only run at 220v. American boats with thicker wire could do either 110/220 after adjusting breakers, etc.
Thanks Matt for contributing to the discussion, much appreciated.
Jeff, the way you use words in these videos is on point. "Well not only, but one of a very few" as a correction to explain a point, awesome, wish I could do better with this in my life, thanks
Jacob, communicating with others is a never ending journey, always growing and trying to make sure our points resonate with the listeners. Appreciate the feedback.
I have a 110v/60hz boat here in New Zealand which is 230/50hz I have a transformer (victron) stepping down to give me 115v @ 50hz up to 32 amps of 115
Everything - air con / microwave / tv / fridges are working fine aside from my battery charger needed to be changed.
But this is down in frequency @ 50hz so my air con isn’t as powerful nor are my fridges. But all is working fine 2 years later
Thanks for sharing foodley123.
Royal Caribbean crusie ships uses 60Hz 230V (EU outlet) and 115V (US outlet). Some staterooms with appliances are mostly 230V (fridge, LED bulbs, coffee maker, etc. TV, hair dryer and some coffee makers in some staterooms, 115V.
230V / 50Hz is most common in Europe, not 220V. If this was a French boat it is most likely 230V.
I work on a 76m / 250ft fishing vessel and there we have 440v and 230v / 60Hz. When we are connected to shore power it is 50 Hz. I feel the transition from 60 to 50Hz as problem-free. The only thing I notice is that pumps and other rotating equipment have their rpm / capacity lowered by 20%.
A bigger challenge is when we connect to shore power which is 400V insted of 440v ... this means that 230v is no longer 230v, but becomes 210v out of the transformer! This has led to errors and, in the worst case, early death on electronics.
230VAC is 220VAC…230+/-10% so AC powered electrical equipment is required to function on anything between 253VAC and 207VAC.
Thanks Mats for providing real world experience to the conversation.
You do make the best videos and give the best advice ! You say in the beginning there are voltage and frequency converters. Which devices would I be looking for ?
Europe uses 230V at 50Hz. North America uses 120V and 240V split phase. Most stuff that works on 230V can handle 240V and the other way round. The difference in NA is the double fusing of 240V.
230+/-10%…so 240 is fine.
@@borysnijinski331 some devices like pumps in dishwashers and washing machines will not work if the frequencies do not match. But everything else including power tools are no problem.
Thanks to both of you for contributing.
You switched between watts and amps there when talking about the downsides. If I'm not mistaken, your charger is giving you 100 amps at 24 volts = 2400 watts to play with (- inverter loss). If you draw 3000 watts then the difference of 600 watts is made up by the battery. So, as long as you keep your draw less than ~2200 watts you should be good right?
Hi Gavin, the conversion of AC to DC (e.g. battery charging) is quite taxing. For instance a 100 amp battery charger at 12 VDC, draws about 18 amps at 110 VAC. For a 24 volt 100 amp charger, expect about 36 amps at 110 VAC (or 18 amps at 220 VAC). Try your charger and see how many AC amps it takes to power it at max output.
You may have addressed this in another video but are 220 “appliances” more, or less, efficient than 110 devices. If my boat has both 110 and 220, would I be better off with 220 fans, toaster, hair dryer etc, or their 110 counterparts. Which would deplete the batteries faster? Thank you.
Are you producing 110v 60hz and 220 50hz from 2 different inverters? Or running 110/240 60 hz? the 220v appliances are probably 50hz may not like 60 hz. Many factors in this question. I doubt there would be much difference between a 120v and 240 hair dryer. You'd be better off making everything the same voltage and turning off the 2nd inverter. that would save you way more power then trying to worry about efficiently of each device. inverters draw a lot of power just being on.
There is no technical reason say a Victron or Mastervolt inverter can do this. Would require additional AC input isolation terminals to allow isolation from the source AC to the output AC to the vessel (main board and housing will need to be modified) and to twit the software to change the switching settings to fire on varying Hz output (50Hz to 50Hz or 60Hz to 50Hz). This would be required due to the existing setup just hands over the shore power frequency from the input terminals. Connect in North America with the multiple 3 phase plug can help with the load of the vessel
Maybe pacific yachts systems know someone to contact in Victron R&D or Mastervolt with a product suggestion
Hi David, thanks for the input.
When I am not sailing I keep my boat in a slip connected to shore power at the dock. I usually visit my boat three or four times a week and like to have my refrigerator running continuously so I always have cold drinks etc. My question is, to run my refrigerator I need to continuously charge my battery through the shore power and should I be using a battery switch set on one which is my starter battery (I’m sure this is not the right way) or set on two which is my house battery or should it be set to both. Thank you in advance for your answer.
Danny Rubio
Hi Danny, for your setup, suggest you run the DC powered fridge off your house batteries while you are at the dock. Make sure your battery charger is charging your house battery and the battery voltage should be above ~13.1 volts.
Hi Jeff, at 3:44, you meant 60hz instead of 50hz, or I got it all wrong?
Sorry for the mix-up:
European: 50 hz at 220 VAC
North America: 60 Hz at 120/220 VAC
I have always wondered this...I live in Japan where we are 100v with either 50Hz or 60Hz depending where in Japan I am.
Oh interesting. Generally most AC appliances want to run on either 50 or 60 hz, but rarely both.
The two ends of the country. I have always wondered how much this affects JDM. Most export electronics seem engineered as adaptive, each running their own power converter. Does this affect consumer electrical or boating?
@@PacificYachtSystems So that is the weird thing about Japan....if you move to the half of the country that uses 50Hz you need all new appliances. I am going to look into the charger/inverter option. Never thought of that before.
I knew that about Japan re 50hz and 60hz, but what is even more weird is that in Japan they drive on LHS of the road…you would think USA would have changed that back in late 1940s. Pretty much the only places in the world where 120VAC and 60Hz is the norm in North America (there are a few other places, but by and large 220VAC and 50Hz dominates world wide.
I bought a Sony MD player in Nagoya with wrong HZ for use in my USA, always gave a high voltage warning, but if you put some load on it, seemed to always charge fine.
Bonjour Jeff,
Your Tech Talk are really interesting!
I'm looking to install a FLIR M-232 thermal camera with a AR200 on my Nauticat 38.
I would like to have your advice about the better place to install it.
On the top of the mast, with 360 degree view, a farther view angle and a lot of swing
Or on the bowsprit with more splashs and less swing and angle of view of about 270 degree.
Jean Domingue
Quebec
Hi Jean-Dominque, suggest you install on the mast. Best to keep the FLIR camera away from spray.
@@PacificYachtSystems thank's Jeff. I will try it next summer and will give you some news