Bianchi Fork Failure - And a Rant
Вставка
- Опубліковано 9 гру 2021
- We were sent some photos of a recent Bianchi Arcadex Fork Failure, the rider sustained serious injuries.
Update - The rider sent me the photo of his injuries but asked to be blurred for privacy.
I also have a bit of a rant about the bike industry ;)
On this channel we show marketing free, real information about the bikes that you ride.
Support us with merch / @luescherteknik
www.luescherteknik.com.au
www.insidecarbonbikes.com
#insidecarbonbikes
#lessthanideal - Спорт
You're not ranting just stating fact. I've been cycling for almost 40 years, and is still very active year round. When I build up my bikes I look for functionality and serviceability = less integration and I prefer mechanical shifting. The bike industry trying to push equipment solutions to problems that don't exist and in turn creates and manufactures poorly engineered products. Thanks for exposing Them. 👍
Very well said "...solutions to problems that don't exist". 👍
@@TheKryztiandivor Marketing hacks are like snake oil salesmen. They prey upon ignorance.
Ive bought one new frame in the last 18 years. It was a steel touring frame. I'm restoring a '70s custom vintage roady now. I got it for free!
Always common sense from you. The marketing of these products are taking over from good engineering.
A very worthwhile rant. From what you and others have exposed I certainly wouldn't ever purchase a bike with similar internal routing. Thankfully there's models out there without this nonsense, if these eventually disappear I can see myself going down the custom frame route rather than mass manufacturing to avoid this placing of marketing bs above safety. Can confirm from a recent top end frame straight out of the box from one of the biggest manufacturers that even a simple QC check appears to be worryingly non-existent, with the prices they're now charging this is not acceptable.
Consumers don't realize how much they pay just for marketing BS and all sorts of vanity driven garbage.
Small custom builders don't make much profit. These guys are dedicated artists. They do it because they love bikes! You get EXACTLY what you want.
STOP buying garbage. Stop HOPING your bike doesn't fail, require a recall, a warranty. STOP settling for compromises and lost rides time.
"A little bit out of hand." That'd be right! Internal cable routing through the headset/steerer? Death on a stick. On a gravel bike??!! Madness. Short of a pro road race bike or TT bike, this is an utterly unnecessary trend that is going to kill someone. Or probably has (and the grieving family paid off/NDA'd). Props to 3T for making a full aero bike WITHOUT internal routing. Also Giant for keeping external routing on the TCR. Internal cables are also a complete nightmare to travel with, let alone spanner. Props to you for keeping this issue alive (unlike the general cycling media that just exists to flog 'new.'). As informed cyclists, we have a duty to spread this information to all - it could easily be you/your wife/husband/kid whatever next.
Care to know how long it takes pro mechanics to change cables, housing and hoses on integrated bikes? Do you think a Pro mechanic will charge you the same price for work that takes over 10X the time? This is no exaggeration.
I charged a customer over $300 for one hose replacement and bleed on a Special👀Ed Levo. Several hundred for a cable change on a Look integrated bike. Similar prices to install integrated h'bars on an Orbea Orca. We're not going to work for cheap. You come to us for OUR EXPERTISE. Time is money.
Haha, maybe y'all need to learn about DIY!
I still can’t get my head around the fact that you can buy a fabulously engineered and complex Japanese, Italian or German motorcycle for the same price as an under-engineered and overpriced carbon road bike - seriously awful incident, it’s proving really hard to find a bike I can service myself ATM.
I agree, it's ridiculous when you consider that comparison, but it goes to show how much profit they are making on each bike. And how well their marketing works. And how many suckers there are in the cycling world.
@M570 yes and it’s labour intensive -definitely wouldn’t go for full carbon anything atm..
You can service it yourself ATM. Just go get more money out of the ATM.
Oh wait you meant the other ATM. My bad. 😂
@M570 Maybe Raoul can do a video on what a high end carbon frame costs the manufacturer ex-factory. Hint- it's in the mid hundreds of dollars for even the highest end carbon frame. Everyone in the bike industry knows this. If you think the fact that these are made form carbon is the reason they are so expensive you are very much mistaken. It literally is all profit.
Try Winspace or Pardus. Legit bikes with very fair price
Total cable integration must be becoming a legal nightmare for the bike manufacturers. I expect that they will start to return to less integration. Models that have bucked the total integration trend like the Giant TCR all of a sudden seem so much more appealing.
That's why I prefer the TCR Advanced over something like the Émonda. Hell, I even almost bought one.
Everyone was laughing at the 2021 Giant TCR for the lack of integration. Guess who has the last laugh now
it also has a bigger steerer, so probably it's even safer
Love my 2018 TCR Advanced pro with rim brakes
@@jjmoto65 Same here!
You are right on everything. Common sense, clear thinking and an awareness of practical realities needs to return. We have become irrational slaves to over-blown popular trends. We lose fundamental virtues over gluttony for marginal gains and for the vast majority of us it is only a psychological status game. Manufacturers are counting on our behaving like privileged, entitled, spoiled children. All the best.
Clearly there are alternatives if one can adopt a quality mindset. Ignore marketing BS lip service. Demand proof and proven results. Its really simple. Boycott junk proven to fail. Then none of their problems effect you. Allow these problems to remain
someone else's problem.
The easiest and simplest action is to just be patient and wait. Withhold your money. Demand better.
I have no idea which factory Bianchi uses today for this particular model but remember about 3-4 years ago when I was interested in the cycling industry and doing some research many of their bikes were coming out of fuji-ta in mainland China. Also I found out that one manufacturer was doing a factory door price for a open mould carbon frame for about $80 at that time. Lastly I managed to find myself on a Chinese forum by translating my english search into Chinese and then using that chinese to search Chinese forums and then translate back to English and found some postings where the Chinese were very happy in that Bianchi were selling their low cost Chinese bikes at such inflated prices in Japan and ripping off Japanese consumers who they didn't seem to like. The chinese brand was 'Battle' and were basically the same quality bikes as Bianchi. I should point out fuji-ta are by far the biggest bike manufacturer in China and have made a huge number of bikes for famous brands, Cannondale, Specialized etc as well as their own Battle brand bikes. It's funny you get these Chinese bikes being sold by so many different western brands at hugely inflated prices and each putting their own marketing on them, like the cycling history of Italy or engineering excellence of Germany etc and they are just repackaging Chinese bikes with slightly inconsistent quality. Always worth looking at the Quest Composites site in China as they make CF bikes for Trek and Canyon as well as other brands I'm sure and their factory images on their site are quite shocking in the conditions they show and those are the images they show on their site so perhaps day to day conditions could be worse. I suppose its no different to the cheap Bangladesh clothes we wear, where people are locked into the factory (women mainly) and not allowed to leave. Hence the factory fires where few people escaped. Such factories have produced cycling clothing and shoes.
It's never about how much something costs to make its always about how much someone is prepared to pay. If someone will pay $12k for a CF road bike then such a product will be made even if manufacturing cost is only $600. Careful marketing and appealing design might make someone pay such money even if the product is actually quite poor and dare I say it actually a bit unsafe.
The problem now is not just manufacturing quality anymore. It's engineering which these Chinese manufacturers are just following from these western brands. If they design this integrated system safely, this things should not be happening.
Thats untrue, fuji-ta is a OEM company, it will order parts from the manufacturer. There are too many manufacturers, and anyone can give them orders. The quality depends on cost, cost will affect everything. And hi bro, there isn't any illegal confinement, especially in the industry area. That will waste more money to satisfy the same standard.
@@WashichawbachaW Bingo, Maker isnt designer, Chinese is very hard to touch design detail.
@@lockonyuan231 What is untrue? Who mentioned illegal confinement? What is the point you are trying to put across if you can summarise it.
@@lockonyuan231 Fuji-ta have a huge portfolio of bike designs as you can see on their web site, they do their own engineering, testing and certification in house but of course some brands will want custom frames and forks but others will use open mould frames etc and the same brand may vary this by price point. As far as I understand there can be some minor customisation of designs without the full re-design and re-certification process but not sure about this. I.e. cosmetic changes to the frame and forks without making structural changes but I guess this depends on the moulds and mould inserts. Quality I'm sure will vary but its the same manufacturing team and engineers being used across brands but materials used and final checks could vary. Many brands will use different factories for different quality levels. Merida and Giant are quite expensive now as OEM manufacturers so some brands will only use them for their high end bikes and will use lower end factories like fuji-ta for mid-level or low level bikes. I think Specialized does this or did this. As a consumer you get snippets of information at different times and have to form a picture. You can see Specialized bikes being manufactured in a recent fuji-ta video but sometime before that high end Specialized bikes were being made by Merida who used to be part-owner of Specialized and maybe still are.
thank you for pointing these failures out and making them known! This can't keep happening!
My current bike is Cannondale Supersix evo hi-mod 2017 with rim brake/mechanical gears. I was very close to buy new Supersix w' disc brakes/internal stuff.
With these problems with various top-end bikes, I definately keep my current bike and won't touch these modern nightmares.
Thanks again for Luescher for this site. 👍
I feel very fortunate to have found your channel. I'm a heavy rider, love new technolgies - but, I'm steering away from carbon as much as I can! The bike industry can do much better, but keeps playing games with our safety and our lives! Thank you for your honesty opinions and spot on analysis! Appreciate it!
Oh boy, that just does not get to happen. It's horrible. And not reassuring on safety standards, when such famous companies make these sort of mistakes.
I wish the rider a full recovery, and that any costs will be covered by insurance respectively the bike manufacturer.
Thank you for your great in depth videos concerning these issues.
In my little local repair operation, I have to explain to customers that bring in bikes with internal cable routing, with sticky (mechanical) shifting (& that's not even the 'inside the bars/stem/steerer' routing), that, on average, it's going to take twice as long & cost twice as much to replace a cable as it would with external cables/hoses. The only bikes that should have completely internal routing are EPS/Di2/hydro brake road race bikes, for mechanic sanity and customer satisfaction reasons, as well as structural integrity, that Raoul rightly shellacks the soyboy marketers that design bikes today over the lack of. & what does it save you in drag? Canyon wind tunnel tests say 3 watts, at the most. I'd rather 5 seconds slower than 6 months in hospital slower. Well done.
As has been said before, thank you for your work. The general public needs to know about these issues unvarnished by marketing spin. As you’ve emphasized, we’re talking about lives here. A bit over a year ago I was in the market for a new frameset (and groupo) and I was looking at many of the big brands out there, Bianchi included, with all of their integrated this and that. I was willing to spend money to get the bike that met my needs and almost went the integrated route. I ended up, by pure luck, going with a slightly older design, non-integrated, but not cheap. Purchased a new TIME Scylon frame/fork, 2018 model, and built it up accordingly. For a while I felt a bit guilty for having gone that route given the frames are not cheap but all of these recent failures, due to poor engineering and marketing bs, I don’t regret that decision at all now. I proudly flaunt my exposed cables everywhere I go.
The industry took us from threaded bottom brackets to BB30, BBright, OSBB, PF30 and PF30a, 386Evo, BB90&95 and the list goes on. Now we are circling back to threaded and T47. The bike industry will go down any rabbit hole as long as they can sell/market it.
Last week, I pulled a suspension fork off a friend's bike and water and mud trickled out of the head tube. Removed the bottom cartridge bearing, removed the seal and it was literally packed with mud! I laughed as I flushed out the grit & grime. Ended up pretty damn smooth with fresh grease. That was an hour job by itself. With re-doing internal hydraulic lines? 3+ hours, for sure!
Maybe the LBS will end up on the plus side, billed labor-wise, despite the industry going consumer-direct. When the crap needs service, expect some big bills!
get them to put on a $10 front mud flap, or make one out of a plastic jug and zip ties
@@JogBird he has one! But three years with little maintenance will do that.
(I need one... better get on that!!! I say this after Tuesday's wet ride with all sorts of crap flying up into my eyes. Past time to put on a guard.)
A very good and worthwhile video so thank you for posting it. My friends think I'm a bit of a dinosaur when it comes to progress, my road bike is from 2009, it has external cables which are super easy to adjust, rim brakes obviously, no hydraulics to bleed, rim brakes very easy to service and adjust. Yes my road bike has a carbon steerer but it's easy to check and has no silly internal cabling down by the steerer, the headset bearings and preload ring is easy to check and service as there is enough slack on the cables to drop the forks without having to faff about with the brakes or shifters.
I still run mechanical groupset, I don't want to faff about with batteries to go out on my bike.
A lot of really good progress has been made over the years with regard to carbon frames and now that progress has been damaged by this drive to go to disc brakes and internal cables. Internal cables running through the downtube or top tube fine, just stay away from the stem and steerer it's stupid. So I will continue to be a dinosaur on my 2009 bike and ensure I can maintain my own bikes easily and cost effectively. I don't care what people think about how my bike looks.
As for carbon steerers on gravel bikes thats just nuts. My mountain bike has a hefty front fork and metal steerer and good job too, I think there are limitations for materials and how they are used and a good engineer will say which materials can be used and for which purpose because they know the loads the parts need to go through.
Very disappointing in 2021 we are seeing people face plant because of poor design or poor application of materials.
Hello Raoul,
Well said... There is a very good book called "Black Box Thinking" that echo's what you are saying about being open about failures if you want to make things better... Keep up the good work raising awareness.
Take care.
Paul,,
Problem is we all think our bikes are okay....until we know they are not! Anyway I'm sure mine are fine! Thanks and keep on helping to expose these issues!
I've recently moved to a titanium road bike, rim brake, external cables, standard stem...... nothing integrated!! Information like you're putting out will hopefully lead to change that needs to happen. Or maybe some class action lawsuits against bike manufacturers to make them all terrified of going down this ridiculous "integrated" path. Notice the priciest bikes seem to be the worst offenders for these problems. Imagine a car brand selling a car where the steering wheel snaps off if you go over a bump? At least the car industry has more integrity than the bike manufacturing industry.
The Prius was recalled for that a couple of years ago. The steering shaft wasn't sufficiently torqued into the rack's pinion shaft clamp. I think they had to replace a few racks and steering shafts over it.
Since I started, to take cycling more seriously, I changed my stem length 4 times, the angle and my bar width 2 times. As my fitness got better, and my fit more aero, I got 15 percent more speed from almost the same FTP. I could do this from nickles, because I could buy cheap and great quality UNO stems, and Ritchey non integrated bars.
For me with these integrated nonsense things was the problem, that no cyclist has the ultimate fit from out of the box, so if you have to change the cockpit, you have to throw the whole thing out and shell out a huge pile of local currency.
But now this is shifting towards safety and the simple well-being of the cyclist. So these things are now an absolutely no go for me, ever.
Thanks so much for getting this important message out there.
Thanks for the informative video as always. Around a year or so back when the Focus Atlas bike model was released I called the shops mechanic as it too had a similar internal cable setup thru headset.
I discussed the same design points and drawbacks that come with this design you mentioned. I would have bought the model bike if it was externally cabled. The mechanic said he would put the points we talked about to the Focus rep when he next dropped by.
I do not understand the need for this internal cabling fad, in alloy or carbon bikes.
Ive since built up a workhorse alloy hybrid that rides well, day in day out and is easily home serviceable. I think the bike industry has lost the pure simplicity that cycling should offer on many new bikes, to their detriment
This is the main reason I still ride my Fisher Cronus from 2011. It's not an aero bike or the lightest bike or the newest, fanciest bike, but it's a good bike. It also uses standard parts like a normal seat post, easily accessible cables, and it's a nice riding bike.
This will only change when one of two things happens... either people quit buying this crap... OR someone successfully sues a manufacturer and wins a huge amount of money, which scares the rest into change. The large lawsuit will only happen when someone is killed or gravely injured.
Or start featuring issues like this on GCN (as if...).
Good luck proving the bike wasnt involved in a crash prior.
A good barrister can always push the point ' we dont know what happened to the bike prior to the fail...was it over torqued, crashed etc?'.
@@durianriders it will take a pro rider probably to have a serious crash due to failure. The professional credentials of a team mechanic and expert witnesses like Raoul could be enough to override reasonable doubt. A civil suit with a well informed jury could put an end to a large manufacturers credibility. People are out to impress and cyclists are the worst offenders even willing to discount imminent dangers.
They settle out of court and keep it quiet.
@@durianriders Good point. But in America, if a lawyer takes to a jury it is possible that a large settlement would result. American juries LOVE to hand out huge settlements.
The idea of making the cables internal was incorrect from the origination. It offers NO performance gains. Zero. But it does have a very striking appearance. That is what the bike industry trades on today. Bikes are now status symbols that identify their owners as wealthy, no different than a Rolex or Louis Vuitton purse. Disk brakes with external cables are not as attractive as rim brakes with external cables, so the manufacturers had to fix that so they could force disk brakes on the market.
Spot on Sills. This is driven by fashion in cycling. I think 95% of cyclists are not fit enough to gain any aero advantage from integrated cables. But they want and follow the latest trend. Great view mate and you're totally correct 👍👍👍
Disc brake with external cables are not attractive as rim brakes with external cables? How can you conclude that? That is so subjective man.
i actually like the look of ext cables, whenever i replace, i look for new colors to try
@Viacheslav heh. Just reminded me of the stories about blown rolexes that were actually used in saturation diving.
I really don't understand the obsession and attraction regarding hidden cables. There are way more visually significant parts hanging externally on the bike such as chain and derailleurs, why hasn't no one complained about those? It's so pathetic to sacrifice safety and ease of maintenance just to get rid of cables.
I do not like disc brakes at all. It places too much stress on the fork and creates a lot of heat. Now, internal cable may look cool but why do I have to bleed the brakes and use brake fluid? It’s not a car or motorcycle, it’s a bicycle for crying out loud. It took me a long time to warm up to carbón rims. And some of the claims bicycle manufacturers make I now question more than ever.
If profit minus medical bills and compensation (we don't see any reputation loss)is still an acceptable positive value nothing will change. People forget, new ad video on gcn (or any other popular channel) will show you how the new is so much better than the old one. UCI could probably force companies to put a protective feature but I bet it wouldn't widespread in all lineups (if at all on top of the line product where they can justify the loss in a very small number of parts). I'm afraid that you are a Sisyphus of cycling. What you do is very important but I don't believe it will change anything.
Internal cables look cool... but I'm glad none of my 3 road bikes (bought in the last 2,5 years... two Canyons and one Bulls) don't have them. Nonetheless I remove and inspect the whole fork once every 6 months. Not sure if that will help me avoid it snap, but it's the best I can do.
My next bike was supposed to have internal cables (again, because they look cool), but from a safety & maintenance point of view I will avoid that.
"Cycling is a leisure activity, it's not a let's-go-to-hospital activity"
And
"[In a gravel bike] you're looking for practically, you're looking for ease of maintenance...and, IDEALLY you're looking for your fork steerer not to FAIL"....
Scathingly hilarious
That's why I ride a MTB (gravel) with an alloy steerer.
I don't see this problem going away anytime soon. We're talking high end bikes with poorly designed functional and mechanical strength. We still have expensive carbon bikes arriving with expander plugs that are barely suitable for purpose. It's penny pinching despite exorbitant prices for the customer.
That means you can avoid it by going for the simpler lower tier bikes. Imagine it would be the other way 😮
Speaking of internal brake cables, a Cervelo S5 headset bearing replacement is a mechanic’s nightmare.
Cervelo s3 is the same thing. Gotta disconnect everything before you can remove the bearings.
Trek madone is awful as well....
I've been years hesitating to buy a new bike and wondering if I would regret a purchase because of a faulty bottom bracket. Now, its those fork steerers with these stupid integrated cables.
I blame the greedy corporations for coming up with stupid ideas to promote sales and increase profits. I blame greedy influencers like GCN for promoting these stupid superficial ideas by hiring young people willing to say anything to make a living and become "successful".
I blame the people for lacking critical thinking, buying into these stupid superficial ideas and buying bikes for all the wrong reasons.
The way we see pro equipment might be a part of the problem. Pro means that it's good, right? That's also how it is to some extent with photo equipment.
But would you buy a "pro" car? What might that be? A truck? An excavator? A racing car?
Veblen good.
@@apair4002 Maybe that's also a part. I have to admit, the clutter free cockpits with hidden or internal cables look great. Or the molten marble colors on Trek bikes ❤
But for us mortals, conventional designs have some advantages like simpler (and cheaper) production, easier maintenance and more flexibility for adjustment and part swaps.
Look for bikes that use BSA bb shells. The press-fit stuff is a pain, and a lot of them lock you into using 1 or 2 types of cranksets whether you like it or not.
@@jochenkraus7016 the thing is that the pros usually only use each bike for one season, and then it gets replaced, unless it breaks before that, and then it just gets replaced early. Pros don't need their equipment to last more than a single race. It doesn't matter if their bike breaks because their sponsors will just get them a new one.
Agree totally. I have a new Tarmac SL7. Brought it to my LBS for the recall. Longer plug placed (the headset collar and ring were the updated version already). However on my second ride I hit a large stone shard, hard enough to crush the front carbon rim. Now I am concerned as to the integrity of the steerer tube. To drop the fork for inspection I need to disconnect both hydraulic brake lines etc., I am not confident as to the integrity of the steerer without inspection after such an impact. Thus will need to do this every time after a significant impact, pita.
Should have read my bike buyers guide bro! :(
@@durianriders I must admit I WAS WRONG YOU WERE RIGHT . Literally because of discs. Never had this problem before... #carbup
I spent 10 great fun years in the cycling industry, but the advent of electronic shifting, and then internal cabling took the joyous simplicity out of the bicycle for me, it became complicated for no real advantage and I was done, but what superb bikes I have sold and ridden over the years. My retirement made me sad as I felt deeply that the Industry had lost its way, but what could I do, nothing. Now I have no problem with discs, but discs and steerer routed cabling is another sad development , that turns the pilot into a Guinea Pig. Not all but most of the big players are so sensitive to this weird idea that pointless, form over function, vanity based unsafe developments is in service to the rider….’out there’. To keep up appearances in the boardroom the integrity of the road bicycle and the safety of the rider is being sacrificed. I would advise riders looking for a new bike now to approach a custom bike builder and buy a well designed, simple and safe frame that is made to fit you, the extra cost now will be money well spent as you will have it for decades, not a season or two and that is an environmentally sound decision as well….bonus.
I left the bike trade for many of the same reasons. Customers now being absolutely ripped off by big brands and being sold completely needless improvments. 5 minute jobs now taking over an hour and who would pay for a hours work to lower a stem 20mm. Custom made steel bikes is all I would buy now. Enve carbon is well made I reckon buying Enve Carbon because it won't fail
Great video mate. Everything you say is 100% correct. Been a Bicycle mechanic for 36 years and the shit i see everyday is mind blowing
LT... Well, the Boulder Colorado Elite Fashion Panty Twisters *MUST* have internal cable routing, full carbon and negative rise stems for personal bests on the gravel race circuits and strava boards. LoL
Back in my day, we had all the aero cable integration we needed from our local hardware store in the form of black electrical tape . . .
As a bike mechanic I agree with you 💯
I'm sure you see a lot more of this happening than anyone else and I can see in your expression and tone just how serious it is. You're right, the UCI needs to do what they can which I think would be to band the use of bikes with hidden cables. That would get the message out to everyone and force the industry to change. Most consumers are clueless that is why the Governments step in and make laws and I feel if the bike manufacturing industry is getting this careless then maybe it's time for some regulation.
Great video.
I’m in the minority as I trust your advise, it is honest and unbiased, a manufacturers nightmare telling the truth.
Nothing will stop when riders continue to pay thousands of pounds for frames.
It really is a con.
I snapped the forks clean off my sisters Schwinn 3 speed in 1980 after I hit a railroad track at night. A 7-Eleven rider snapped a fork clean off a steel Serotta built Huffy at one of the 80’s TDF. Being an old guy who’s been at this for decades now I’ve seen frame/fork failures of all types of frame materials in all types of scenarios .. not just carbon, but I fully agree with this rant, and I feel bad for this guy .. I flew over the bars of my Schwinn Stingray in the 70’s and landed on my face with almost the same exact injuries as his .. very very painful, hoping he heals up quicker than I did.
I worked in a Bianchi dealer, one of the largest in the UK (Not Evans) and we had a lot of problems with Bianchi forks. It was always the eyes snapping where the wheels goes in. We put it down to bad transit at the time but who knows. It was a noticeably common occurrence.
My thoughts go out to the rider. I hope he is making a quick recovery. (The result could have been even worse.)
Thanks mister Luescher to say the truth, I was working like bike mechanic and when I saw this kind of bikes... Umm, terrible, pressfit BB terrible, handlebar terrible, axis threated terrible, all in this industry was mading wrong, and this bianchi a SL7 and other is the result but people buy bikes that its cost is 14000 euros or more, crazy.
Best regards.
As a Clydesdale rider I have never seen a need for disc brakes. Always seemed like a gimmick. That’s why I’ll never let go of my 2013 Supersix EVO HM w/ rim brakes.
drop the fork out today and check for the ring of death on the steerer. All carbon forks are at risk of this if your headset is ever ridden loose.
Alloy or steel forks can come unbonded and need regular inspection around the joins.
Ive lost count how many damage forks from ALL materials Ive discovered on riders totally ignorant to the time bomb waiting to happen to them or the next owner.
"Cycling supposed to be enjoyable and fun, it's a leisure activity, it's not a let's go to hospital and then have months of dental work activity." Love it
Thank you so much
Seems most of these modern fork failures are due to the 'compression ring'. Redesign the aheadset.
Cut the olive and barb off at lever , pull lines thru bar to enable headset bearing replacement. Reroute thru bar.Should be enough slack(appx.1cm) to reach lever. Put on new olive and barb. Done.
Well said,thanks.
Full face helmets the next must have gravel accessory!!
Well said Sir 👍 thank you
There's one vague argument with hiding the cables on gravel bikes: bikepacking. Handlebar bags can cause all sorts of squeezing and rubbing of housings / hoses against each other and the headtube . I've had issues with poor shifting performance or cable housings wearing out in a few days of bikepacking / multi day races (side note, I've never had any issues with brake hoses, they seem to be much more durable for some reason).
Anyway, the rubbing problem can be reduced in many ways, from changing bag setups to get rid of handlebar bags, using bags with a rigid "cradle", using "bar extenders" as means to push handlebar bag away from the headtube to changing to an electronic groupset or (at least) getting rid of front derailleur (one less cable, one less point of failure).
I'm not sure I'd go carbon again because of this and many other issue's. My carbon bike (which I love to ride btw) has internal routing into the frame thankfully. So is it just routing at the headset 'these' failures occur? It's great that you are educating people about these problems though LT great work mate.
Many bikes have carbon forks, independent from the frame material.
I think all the integration and aero stuff makes the shaping more complicated and potentially weaker.
Internal routing through non-moving parts is generally fine. They drill holes to install external routing hardware anyway, so it's a toss-up - internal routing may be even stronger if it was moulded in instead of drilling and cutting through fibres. But when they start routing through high-load moving parts that have a lot of going on, like stems, steerers, crown forks and the like, beware! Caveat Emptor.
By all means, DO go carbon - it's a great material for a bike. But above all, don't get the high-end model, the newest model that has just come out, and that promises full pro performance. That's the model they're testing on their customers. You can buy one of these only after enough people have broken their necks riding them to force the company to admit they screwed up and issue recalls or fixes it. Get a middle class model, or a lower end one, and endurance or even gravel bike if you can bear riding one of these things over longer distances (I can't), if you have money and if it pleases you toss out the cheap groupset and non-group components they usually put on those and replace with a 105 or an Ultegra, or, if you have more money than brains, DuraAce XD. Carbon is not the problem. Poor, untested engineering is.
Watching this while on the trainer with my CAAD 10 mech, rim brake bike.
Agree 100%.
Design is part of the problem however not everyone is a skilled bicycle mechanic but many think they are, I have seen so many home mechanic mistakes. Bicycles have become far more complex and require a level of maintenance, detailed procedures and tools which the average rider is not able to perform. How many stem bolts are over torqued, too many shade tree mechanics. I am not a fan of internal cable routing shift , brake cables through the head tube, far to complex. Wireless and electronic drivetrains take away most of these issues and offer an option. If you are not mechanical bring your bicycle to a shop.
Serviced many integrated headset/cable bikes and they are a royal pain in the arse. Also ridden a few of them and to me it makes no difference.
Recently I've managed to get a trek emonda project one 2019 for a good/cheap price, everything is 'normal', even the brake cable for the fork is external. Super easy to build and service, bang on at 7kg even though it is a disc brakes setup and it rides like a dream.
My advice? Less is more.. and don't listen to the marketing.
My money is on the integrated cabling, not the discs. Nearly nobody needs integrated cabling, as we are not fast enough for that difference in "drag".
I think it’s more about the looks and the desirability. Also not a good enough reason.
@@discbrakefan 100% they are doing it, because the customer desires it. I have seen it countless times when under a review of a bike multiple commenters moaned about "the lack of integration". Just have a look at the comment sections of Time on their Insta account - regularly someone moans about "still no handlebar integration". So there you go.
@@82vitt They review bikes that way to boost sales numbers, not because customers ask for it. Reviewers don´t need your wishes, they need advertizing. Rgr
@@82vitt Sadly, this is true. But I also think that is not about the looks. It is about people being stupid and apply some irrational attributes to certain looks. I don't get why a bicycle with hidden cables would look better per se. If you are after "clean look", why having discs is OK then? They are causing substantially more air disturbance than cable housings so they shouldn't be viewed as "clean".
My 2017 Roubaix was my first, and last bicycle with internal routing, and that was only the downtube, I cannot imagine the routine maintenance on those with internal headset routing. Now we see that not only they are terrible for maintenance, but they are dangerous too :S
The youngest bike in my fleet just turned 6. I don't think I'll update anything for a little while yet.
What can one do, Raoul except agree 100 percent with everything in your video. Contrast the bike situation with FIA regulated motorsports where the structural integrity of race cars is being continually improved - and with no penalty to performance. But today's bike industry is a "triumph" of aesthetics over engineering. Great, until you end up on your face in the gravel - or worse.
Has there been a "similar" Specialized SL7 failure (meaning a complete shearing of the steerer resulting in a crash)? I've been searching, and can't find one.
"Hope your fork steerer doesn't fail" is the new "Merry Christmas"
less than ideal
Beat me to it!
So agree on the silliness of total integration for the sake of aerodynamics. Even if the involved components do not break, TI does not make any sense. First you hide all cables inside the handlebar and the stem to reduce frontal area, but the stem has to be thick as a brick to make them all fit inside. Plus, the bloated aero bars and brick stems are so super stiff that manufacturers widen the tyres up to 32 mm to add more comfort, totally negating all aero efforts.
Apparently now with Specialized, before purchase, you either have to have proof of medical insurance or sign an indemnity form. I also heard that Bianchi is thinking of the same practice. True! I heard it from a guy who heard it from a guy. If you don't like cables showing on your bike start riding track! lol
Totally agree, in engineering view, there isnt development in several years. So customers didn't pay, and companies have to raise prices to keep profit. Vicious circle
Good comment...!Thnxs
It needs to be addressed as the possibility of been killed on a fault like this is very likely so thanks for your input 👍
But which is the difference between the compression rings that are supposed to break the steerer tubes and the ones in the past? All the compression rings have been made of aluminium or steel always, and I’m using a 60 size bike which has a hell of large steerer with no marks on it whatsoever, so were is the problem? Why do brands need to install expansion plugs that are large enough to end after the compression ring?
It seems this kind of accidents have become more frequent ever since the trend of internal cables starts...coincidence?
100% agree with you sir.
Money, money, money. This is the reason for broken faces!
The only thing they need to progress is prices. At the moment they are very successful. Specially these Italian brands selling Taiwanese frames with Italian paintjobs that cost from 4.000 euros for a frameset.
You decide where to put your money, so just decide wisely.
Dear Raoul, just one question: can this type of failure be reduced by using longer compression plugs? Thanks for sharing your information to us riders.
Reduced sure, but the steerer tube doesn't have a bonded sleeve of steel around it, so the bearing race will eventually wear through the carbon.
To what degree could this be a problem caused after manufacturing? Could it be caused during fork or stem installation?
@@leftfieldbikehacks1857 a loose head stem top bolt would cause slop and therefore rubbing wear.
There is a tiny compression washer in between the fork and bearing in a typical setup. Its only 4mm tall, so all steering loads are put through a small 4mm patch of the carbon steerer tube.
No one installs a compression plug that goes down far enough to support the top bearing loads
What do you think about changing carbon fiber steerers to aluminium so we can still retain the concept of integrated cables?
Fully internal cable routing is stupid and especially so when other parts of the bike are sacrificed to make it happen.
The argument that cable rub on the outside of the bike is no longer present is true, but now it is on the inside of the bike. If heaven forbid the plastic sheath on a shift housing is worn through then you have steel strands rubbing the insides of the frame and fork steerer down the line destined to cause an accident. Even the plastic sheath is usually enough to damage a carbon frame if it rubs the same spot all the time over time.
Only way to know if you have internally compromised bike is to fully dismantle it regularly to check which means many people will not do it due to cost and hassle.
Utter pain in the ass due to an utterly pointless and stupid design to appeal to a trend which saves such a miniscule amount of aerodynamic drag that you can barely measure.
"cable rub on the outside of a bike"? is that real, or just more marketing scare tactic? all of my bicycles have fully external routing, and there's no evidence of cable rub anywhere. because i use protective tape where needed.
Love the lesson and the common sense reminders. So, is it safe to say that “Moving backwards is less than ideal.”?
Terrible. The braking forces from disc going through the steerer that is compromised by cabling is a very obvious and unnecessary design flaw.
Ouch. The shear is right at the metal insert at the bearing the cabling routes through. Not a good look for FSA. Do some mfgs add a sleeve there?
Good rant and totally agree that for a bike that's use case is more or less off road then the idea of using an integrated cable cockpit is pretty bonkers due to all the reasons you gave. However disagree with others saying there is no place for it at all .. a race bike with all cables hidden is a thing of beauty. People saying others don't need it are just old men shouting at the clouds. They may not be able to take advantage of it but I know I and others do. Also, since when has need had anything to do with a persons passion?
You dont need it. But keep telling yourself.....
@@johndef5075 I don't _need_ 60mm deep carbon wheels either .. but I've got them and love their speed and look. I also race my aero road bike on local 10 m TT's against actual TT rigs and it's faster than some of them and actually faster than my old rim braked, 50mm wheeled TT bike when I actually developed more power. So I'm super happy with integrated cockpit, slippery frame and improved, deep profile wheels.
no, they're actually laughably stupid looking
This is news to me. My pals and I used to scavenge old bike parts from the local tip in the 70s. Rusty old frames and bent wheels. Once we had put them together at least they stayed together. Progress eh? Glad my bike is a steel Condor.
Do you have an opinion on Argon 18 frames? Gallium?
I'm in favor of running cable and lines through long straight tubes--top tube, down tube, chain stay, fork blade. It keeps them clean and protected, they don't weaken the frame, and with a few tricks they can be threaded quite easily. But running them through handlebars, stems, and steerer tubes is asking for trouble and a maintenance quagmire.
LT I dont think you understand that the new Bianchi and SL7 have a new technology called a self cutting steerer - if the steerer fails it means the bike sensed you needed a lower stack height.
SCS TECHNOLOGY
Companies quietly paying off injured parties and/or their families has been going on for a long time. Look up the Ford Pinto scandal of the early seventies - it was cheaper to pay the compensation than modify the design to be safe. So many of the fashionable developments in cycling have made bikes harder to work on and in some cases more dangerous. One of the few improvements is threadless headsets. Many of the others just increase the cost and frustration of maintenance.
Ford also did this in the 90s when they underspecified a tyre on the Explorer from Bridgestone I believe.
There is nothing wrong with a rant when it is more than warrantied.
The internal routing is all about the clean look of a bike 98%, with maybe a 1% aero advantage and the last 1% because they can.
Something has to be done as you said because I don't see things changing any time soon or in the next 2 years. 2022 bikes are done, 2023 bikes are in the design now and ready to go so maybe 2024 there might be a step towards something being changed.
Integrated cables makes sense on TT bike only
U R so right! A gravel has to be practical and low-tech but if you are looking 4 a fancy cafe-racer…it is up to you bro!
Rim-brakes rule 😀
I love disc brakes but have never understood hydraulics on non-mountain bikes. Who needs that much power on a road (even gravel) and is the feel really worth the hassle? Internal cable routing is a great way to make a simple repair take all day. But what's the top of this look like inside, and how does the steerer break way up there on a first ride? Forks in general scare me. I know people who had faceplant failures back in the 80s on steel, so I don't trust any material inherently. Bad design driven by instagram-friendly design (no cables!) seems to make this worse.
With carbon wheels, a tiny piece of grit struck in a rim brake pad would cause serious damage to the rim. This means that careful inspection and cleaning must be undertaken frequently.
Disc brakes eliminate that. That's the only positive I can think of.
@@ricosalomar I like them with even cheap ally rims b/c if you ride a lot with rim brakes you wear them thin and who wants to rebuild wheels when you can wear down a disc instead? And IME, even the cheap ones (I use Avid BBs all the time) are MUCH better on power than any rim brake I've ever used (esp when wet), and they make a lot less noise than many of the V-brakes I've used. They do add decent weight, of course, and they're not aero, so if rimmies work, might as well use 'em.
@@ricosalomar disc brakes on road bikes was an answer to a REAL problem that the marketing executives created. which was carbon rim-brake clincher wheels.
Are they absolutely sure they used the recommended torque and the correct length of steerer plug? That's why i don't use carbon forks, metal forks are simpler to use.
If practicality is what gravel bikes are for, they will be using flat bars instead of drops. Shimano MT200 hydraulic brakes with a clutched Deore 10 speed drivetrsin is more practical than a GRX groupset. Costs less, easier to work on.
I'd be dumping shares if I was an investor in some if these brands having faults. They need to issue recalls asap otherwise they could be sued so heavily that the companies go into bankruptcy.
Totally agree.How do you get the message to people that buy these bikes?
I believe these super light integrated bikes are designed for professional use where bikes are changed multiple times per season. At the end of the season most teams sell off their used bikes both to replace them with the latest model, but also because they know that equipment with thousands of miles of hard use are potentially not reliable enough for more professional use.
The pro's get different bikes to the rest of us, typically a different carbon layup or the steerer has an aluminium sleeve bonded inside to stop it splitting in half.
I think there is a rational reason for the manufacturer to have integrated cabling: the integrated look sells. In this specific case it's not about aerodynamics, it's the clean look that attracts. And since most customers let the bike shop do all adjustments it doesn't matter to them that it's harder to adjust. I've heard plenty say "I would not buy a new bike today with an ugly spaghetti mess of cables and hoses", so I think the truth is that the look aspect is more important/selling than one may think.
However, it is of course a scandal that this has lead to unsafe designs
i must be in a VERY small minority that thinks fully internal routing looks ugly and stupid.
The problem may have been caused by the unequal length and depth of the compression plug and the stem.
So I do get the aesthetic appeal of internally routed cables, but what totally boggles the min is that this specific Bianchi has an internal front break hose but an external rear one… where’s the sense in that?
That’s the worst of both worlds 🤯
: Thank God, he's alive!
The only progress is the prices. Inflation has not increased at the rate bicycle prices have. More money, more hassle and more injuries.
Internal cable routing is all for aesthetics. Everyday people don’t need the minuscule aero gain from internal routing. I always buy external cable routed bikes. Much easier to work on as well.
Traditional internal routing is not that bad. Only counterpart is it take some effort to route at first, but full on integration from bar to frame is the sin.
It reminds me of integrated seatpost. High end models required it while it made no sense and disappeared in the end.
Customer have a reponsability in throwing ridiculous money to get those gimmicks for parade on sunday mornings.
I would love to know what the top rated forks are. Before I buy new forks that is.
So would I, they can be a bit random, that's why I test the ones that I use.