In my opinion, there's no way that OW2 will ever come close to prime OW1. Just between the cinematics, the lore, and the general vibes of OW1, it just hit a lot harder. Obviously, OW1 had its flaws, but let's be real, if they didn't shut down the OW1 servers to go along with the launch of OW2, then I think that the player count for OW2 would be dramatically lower.
Just my personal opinion, the music when people are talking should be quieter, or the music should be less energetic and more complimentary. It's very distracting and annoying trying to listen to what people are saying when there's music (which is good music on its own) that has an energy that detracts from the person speaking. I still enjoy the videos and your format is great in most respects.
Thanks for the feedback! Been experimenting with music and haven’t settled on a solid plan for it yet, but I’ll use this advice to try to find what works perfectly for these videos :)
@@TheRedRosa lot of people struggle to separate music with vocals (even speaking regularly) so it makes sense to help make the voices be more clear and easier to understand I personally don't have that but I still struggle sometimes with being distracted by the music instead and forgetting what the person was saying
The take "Too bad u broke just cry about it" is clearly of bad taste when you originaly paid for the game and got used for like 6 years of getting free stuff and suddenly you are asked to pay minimum 20 bucks per skins which more and more becomes simple recolors of old free skins... to me feels predatory why do we have to pay a 1/3rd or what the OG game cost for 1 SIMPLE SKIN and the fact that for now old coins cant be used for anything past OW1 is insane just because we complain about the price being way too high doesnt mean we are broke... and using the "Look game number 202092 sells them for twice the price of OW2 so why do you cry it could be worse" just because someone lost a leg they shouldnt complain because their neighbor lost both of their legs ?!
I do personally miss earning loot boxes. I used to play a lot more and never spent a dime on cosmetics. The current shop is relies too much on fomo in my opinion. and a skin should never cost more than a full video game. that's just absurd.
The loot box take was kinda bad, I remember not spending a cent on overwatch 1 so in the early days I had 0 skins, I played and got more and more and gradually built up the amount of coins I had especially when it came to events. I think anyone who disagrees with them being brought back as a free reward is being emotional because they spent money and didn’t get what they wanted. Especially when you knowingly spent that money to gamble.
No it’s not. We can all agree that the current system is bad and almost objectively worse. But that doesn’t make the old system good. To put into context, people on console had to pay $60 to play Overwatch and then on top of that they threw in a cash grab Gacha system that was extremely greedy in comparison to even their F2P competition at the time. I played Overwatch for 2 years straight and have almost no skins to show for it and every skin I got for my main character I had to grind for because there were no methods to target a character through the loot boxes. It was not good. There are good loot box systems in paid games but OW was not one. Had they done something like hat Injustice 2 did, most people wouldn’t complain about the old system even if loot boxes did still cost money
@Kintaku ow1 lootboxes were insanely good. You got one every level up, and you leveled up pretty much every 4-5 games you also very commonly got coins in those lootboxes which you could buy any skin with. I have a lot of alts and pretty much every single one of them has a lot of skins just from the lootboxes
@@Kintaku it sounds like you didn’t play at all, I played since season 3 and have almost every skin on my main account, I’d much rather get coins from a loot box than spend $20 for a skin
@@AdamSlander888 I literally played almost every day for about 2 years straight and was an active player until Apex came out. Please don’t discount my personal experience. In my experience the system was extremely unrewarding. There was no way to target what I want so even when I got skins they were almost never for the character I played, and I was really unlucky when it came to getting feee coins. But that’s the problem with loot boxes. They are random. So your experience and mine could be totally different over even the same period of time. I feel like people that defend the system never realize that they were either just lucky or had more disposable time to make the system feel more fair than it actually is. Also please do realize that I’m not defending the current system. It is objectively worse than the loot box system was. I literally started my response with that. My point is that even among loot box and gacha systems, the one in OW was not great but especially when you consider that you had to pay $60 to get the game in the first place. I don’t feel like I’m being unfair here.
Whoever doesnt want 6v6 back i noticed almost always was never a tank player I started on ow 2 on 5v5 , and i prefer 6v6 , thy had to change most of the game to actually rebalance the entire game , and that would be complicated , but trying to balance 5v5 tanks will be broken or underpowered And yes the new tanks designed for 5v5 would have to be redesigned , but overall , it would be better for everybody Btw i am a plat dps , gold sup and tank.
As someone that's been playing OW since 2016 on both console and PC, 6v6 is very often viewed through rose tinted glasses. There were so many problems with 6v6 and OW1 that people just happily ignore. Like how GOATs (3 tank 3 support) was meta for several seasons. Or how double shields were incredibly annoying to fight against, especially if you were an off tank player who got paired with a Hog 1 trick. Or how so few people played tanks at lower ranks that I became a tank player specifically because my games were usually 4-5 DPS and 2-1 supports. Like even if you drastically reduced the numbers of tanks in OW2, there are some wild and some bad potential match ups in a 6v6 scenario. Like Zarya paired with someone like Mauga or Queen or Doom would be wild even if you halved their stats and doubled their CDs. Honestly I think pickable passives are a better solution to the counterswapping issue and all that and help alleviate *some* weaknesses of tanks in certain matchups without making them oppressive. Which would, in turn, make tanks more fun to play
@MxChloeB42 a lot of these problems u stated like goats for example , werent a format problem , but a balanving problem in general , these "problems" most of them at least are not the format , most of the reworks till today can work on 6v6 , 6v6 codes with balancing tanks accordingly works like a charm Tho i do agree with a lot u said , most can be fixed and could have been fixed without changing the format The problem is that there is no way to please everyone , they took away 6v6 and brought 5v5 , so 6v6 players were disappointed, if they bring back 6v6 , 5v5 players will get disappointed And the percentage will differ but my point stands , tho i belive that bringing 6v6 back will need a lot of balancing changes and things to actually work , but less people would be disappointed at 6v6 coming back than keeping 5v5 imo I started on ow2 when it launched , and i loved it , then i saw og ow content , samito and others talking about it , then i started noticing tank problems , power creep , and etc And im not saying 6v6 will insta fix everything , but it is a step in the right direction , theproblem in ow 1 were the supports , and not the tanks
@@MxChloeB42GOATS and Double Shield are not format issues, they are balance issues. GOATS existed because Brigitte on release was so insanely strong that they needed to introduce role lock to counter it. Double shield existed because Sigma and Orisa were backed up by Baptiste’s AoE healing and immortality field and Brigitte Inspire and health packs, as well as the tanks having insane sustain as well (Fortify + Kinetic Grasp / Deployable shields) These are issues that can be solved through balance
Holy fuck, those people who are against 6v6 literally argue for 6v6. As a damage dealer you don't have more freedom in 5v5, you have less freedom. You get to the fights faster, but those fights have less impact than in 6v6. It's a one dimensional gameplay loop. With 6v6 you could actually fight and kill tanks, in 5v5 you can't kill the raid boss tank. This literally limits your options to outplay the enemy. Also, what's up with those "we'd have to rebalance the tanks when going back to 6v6", yeah like no shit Sherlock. Nobody is arguing just putting in a 2nd tank and be done with it. There is nothing good about the 5v5 format. There is not a single argument that hasn't been debunked in favor of 5v5. Try me.
What changed OW was the idea that all heroes should be good, even if they're easy and have a low skill ceiling. OW in 2016 and 2017 was different because it was skill based balance instead. I believe we can get some of that back if the devs realize that low skill ceiling heroes should not be so impactful. They have to have a self-intervention and realize that the game suffered from that philosophy change and do what is best for the game.
My take is if they would stick to the PvE path they've promised the game might come back to it's prime era cause it was again something unique and with the deep lore that the overwatch characters have it would have been something very very nice. BUT they've scrapped it entirely so it's now just another fps moba type shooter game with a hero release as the only new thing here and there. And with so many games like overwatch being on the horizon sadly the Future for this game is darker than ever. It's sad that we don't even get any cinematics for new heroes and it shows that team 4 is completely focused on farming skins for money rather than bringing good content. My rank is plat btw
real peak for me was 2021. Season 27 was rein meta when they added 25 hp and made his hammer do 85 dmg Was so fun actually being able to play rein post role queue
This is a really minor thing, but I would've liked for the hot takes to be a little bit less biased. They all favor OW1, and some of them could easily be reversed without changing their purpose (for example, changing the third question to "push is better than 2cp"). As someone who does enjoy ow2, it often feels like everyone just wants to talk negatively about it, and I think that variety in the hot takes could also bring more variety into the contestants' responses. It's your show though, feel free to ignore this comment. As always, it was fun to watch!
One positive thing is that the devs are actually updating the game consistently unlike in Overwatch 1, though the balancing is not good at least they we are not getting dumped for months then getting a small patch
Wait. Rose is stating reasons why 6v6 SHOULD come back. Is she sure she's on the right side?? Also I feel seriously bad for the OW community about whether Loot boxes or Battlepasses were a better monetization system, and IMO THEY BOTH SUCK! Monetized loot boxes is INHERENTLY gambling, and Battle Pass STILL sucks cuz even after buying it you still have to grind for it. AND it's pricy as shit cuz AAA companies have gone full greed.
@ChristalRaine have you ever thought about doing an Overthink discussing the accessibility options for players with some for of handicap? They seem to be adding things in the shadows that greatly help myself as well as plenty of others I’m sure!
My hot takes no one asked for: I dislike monetization in any form. I somewhat would be down for a subscription model like an MMO, but companies are never satisfied with just that model either. And it does keep people out of the game. I also remind myself often the temporary nature of cosmetics. They will only exist as an investment for as long as the game keeps running. Can we trust any game will stay around forever? Especially with how many older games are impossible to play legally? When it comes to balance and meta, the devs will never win. Someone, somewhere will dislike whatever meta is happening at the time. And if they are in a position of influence in the community, people will uplift and agree with that viewpoint. And there will always be something meta. We're power gamers. I think of this often with things such as TTRPGs for instance. There will always be meta classes and builds. We need to accept balance will never happen, and accept it is ok to just not like a meta or not like the game in a certain state for a while. I actually enjoy the game more, much like TTRPGs, when I allow myself to not power game for a while. Maybe the solution is a robust custom game system to allow players to create a balance of their choosing. Run comp seasons of their choosing. And, depending on HOW robust, heroes of their choosing. Essentially, creating the infrastructure for custom Overwatch mods like how people ran Classic WoW servers before Classic WoW became a thing.
From a qp perspective on push vs 2cp, imo push is better and more competitive No side has a big advantage until they do by winning fights While 2cp for qp is only 1 side of what a comp match would be, meaning you don’t get to prove that you’re better at the other side of the mode if you lose Escort and Hybrid have the same issue just they are a bit more enjoyable than 2cp For competitive 2cp is more balanced by being able to fight both sides Where as Push stays as is just with less time and the other comp rules that aren’t bound by game mode
17:00 Although I will say I like the maps design for 2 cp, the mode was a draw more than not. Personally I think there are plenty of opportunities to improve the push game mode and they have only had a few years time for us as players to learn it and for the devs to understand what they have created. I like how it offers different battle locations throughout the map and you can pick where to engage by either letting the bot push or leaving him, forcing the enemy to play where you want them to. I mean we still see people pushing the bot into the enemy during OT to give them another contest haha. I think we still have plenty to learn about push as a community.
2 cp was terrible and push is fun. I tried 2 cp pugs several times in the last month and 2cp is trash. It was fun as a novelty, but it was clear to everyone that 2cp was deleted for a reason. Several people said it.
4:00 so the tank has to lose their freedom in 5v5 instead? I’m not vying for either but tank has felt abysmal for so long with how volatile counterswapping is, try out open queue or the 6v6 patch. Tanks can’t really duel a competent dps, but with the way it is now stats are piled up on the tanks to force them to win that duel. Open queue isnt really balanced, but it shows you that the hp pools make tanks much more exploitable even with a few on the field.
here is my take 5v5 is the better gamemode but 6v6 works better as it is now you can just lose the entire match cuz 1 guy on your team is bad the tank role in 5v5 is literally the team leader, if THEY are bad your gonna have a really hard time getting anything done it just feels like the entire game hangs on the fact of "which one of these 2 players is better at being a tank"
I kind of understand but disagree with 5v5 being the better game mode because tanks need to be thanos due to the insane amount of work they need to do. Tanks are just inherently more valuable in a team right now vs what they were in ow1 and thats why it feels so frustrating to get the worse tank
about 6v6 i played Solo ranked all OW1, as a challenge if i had to play tank it was horrible, tank duos pretty much determined the game, 2 randos vs well executing tank duo is no can do, as a DPS there was no off angle to take, there was a shield or something all the time in the way, 5v5 gives more space to work whit to make plays, oh and people want longer que timese because we dont have tank players? thats why we had them in OW1.
6v6 is possible but it gets harder and harder the more heros and reworks happen, but 5v5 will never be balanced or at least fun like ow1 in its prime i'm sorry, unless you make all tanks virtually the same and really busted and have it be steamroll heavy with games revolving around tanks or leave tanks vulnerable to all cc and just have 1 really shit role to play.
I dont agree that overwatch 2 can ever be as good as overwatch 1. i already had a feeling it would be a flop before it came out. Bcs i know blizzard well. and i was right. 5vs5 is horrible. and also choosing to make it 5vs5 was stupid when it came to balancing, beacuse the game was relativly well balanced around 6vs6 and tanks were more fun to play in overwatch 1. in overwatch 2 they had to balance everything around 5vs5 which ain't working when it comes to tanks. either tanks are buffed so they are op asf or they are just a bullet sponge that get abused if they get nerfed. there no balance inbetween. plus overwatch 2 is just filled with microtransaction, with over priced skins. If i paid for all skins i got in overwatch 1 it would have costed me thousends of dollars. meanwhile all skins i gotten in overwatch 1 i haven't paid a penny for it.
And a little thing , i think this game would benefit more if it was treated more like a moba and less like a hero fps , longer cooldowns , more health and less healing i think would make playing some characters like doomfist n such less fun to play as but would be 100 more skill to know when to use the cooldowns and things ... imo
whould be less fun in general comparing it to be like every characater whould fel like your playing tank where your doing the ame thing over and over angain for the untire match
It's very hard for OW to be at it's prime again at the start! We got to keep in mind that A fresh new game hypes the audience/keeps them interested HOWEVER OW rn has made HUGE changes which keep the game extremely balanced/fun. Blizzard is testing out new takes and adjusting if something didn't go well! Blizzard has been doing a lot of AMAZING changes! The game is extremely fun😎 Blizzard keeps improving on the game!!! It's incredible! The last point! I don't like how veterans complain about OW2 and the current state. Wishing/demanding for the old times to come back🙄 It will never be the same again! Games evolve/devs have to adapt and oc earn MONEY. Blizzard doesn't force you to BUY them! It's legit/fine when people who have money spend them on cosmetics/accessories! People can spend their money on whatever they want! You can get stuff without spending money! It depends on when you started and for how long you grinded the game! I as well as many others didn't spend money on OW and we still got cool/diverse amount of skins! 44:23 Finally a person who uses objective facts! No wishful BS etc. PS: Blizzard is showing A LOT of initiative which proves that they are trying. Now game modes. I don't understand why people hate/love certain game modes since YOU can always make a comeback! It's never like you lost straight up just bc of one loss!
Ah yes everyone wanted a new PvP game and the old one be darned No one really wanted a PvE game or better balancing of the already existing PvP game As a player of OW1, Going f2p is fine as much as people may be a bit unhappy that they paid 60$ for a game 4 year prior and got the whole game after for free now have to pay for stuff again boo hoo. however, there's should be a way to earn stuff for free still (there is but it's slow and it's mostly already earned stuff) The monetization could be better and they could probably get away with being more "psychologically" scammy about it like too get free stuff you need to check the back, or hard to get to spot, of the store add very unreliable loot boxes that can't be purchased only obtained thorough playing the game. The preference for one game mode over another is in every game that has multiple gamemodes. A game being competitive brings out those opinions more than others Personally I fine the game fun when it isn't balanced only because I can then look at it more casually rather then when it is "balanced" and I can see it's flaws that mostly stem from role power distribution or the "unskillful" hero choices
@@wiltedrose6699 I don’t see how anyone would look at my comment and say “that is negative.” Voice cracks are normal for men, it’s not a big deal. It’s just funny when it happens. Everyone agrees on that.
as for character design i think its a bit tricky because i would split it in 2: what geoff goodman made(old lead hero designer) and what alec made (the new lead hero designer) i think geoff made some good designs like ball, ashe, doom, ORISA YES LET ME EXPLAIN, ana, echo, queen, and ram. these characters were somewhat fair and either had skill=reward mechanic or didnt have the bullshit that some heroes he designed which are sombra: she COULDVE been a good designed hero but they fucked up really bad sigma: this piece of shit has +1 too many abilities and thats the reason why hes so good in 5v5 bap: he has an immortality field, thats all i have to say, why would you add an immortality ability in the game moira: waaay too braindead of a hero, and shes actually the first support to make goats a thing with her aoe healing brig: i dont think i have to explain this one lol(for anyone who says double shield was caused by sigma and orisa..youre wrong,even tho sigma was kinda at fault) kiriko: yes she was designed by goodman, because im pretty sure most of the ow2 heroes are made or somewhat made by the old hero design team, also another immortality, better 1v1 potential than most dps, goes through walls, one of the best ult in the games lmao weaver: again another braindead support who plays for you and denies a lot by existing mauga: its mauga illari: she would be fine if it wasnt for pylon being up forever this guy did well when it came to roles outside support but decided to ruin the game by making support the most skilless role in the game as of alec im pretty sure we dont know if he had something to do with the heroes i listed but we 100% know he made venture and now juno, which are actually well made heroes that are fair compared to idk that one character that can make people immortal. as of redesigns idk who worked on them but i know goodman did the doom, orisa, bastion and the first sombra one. most of them are fine with the doom one almost being perfect except for block not fitting with the hero at all, but the first sombra one was holy shit wtf is wrong with you, the second sombra rework is perfect, the ball one is useless, the hog one made him way more annoying to play against and removed the little skill ceiling he had, and the phara one was throwing shit at a wall until they made her broken. TLDR: you cant separate them in ow1 and ow2 because most of the second game were made by the lead designer of the first one, goodman did some good but mostly ruined the game, and alec has a chance because as of now hes cooking . edit: holy shit i forgot sorjourn, shes stupid and was broken for most of the ow2 lifetime lol
the 2cp/push one always gets me, push is better and more balanced (and i dont even really like it so), saying 'nobody hates hanamura/temple' is insane, playing first point hanamura in high elo was complete hell. yeah of course you have to win fights in a row to win push, just like any other gamemode. its just push (like koth) only has one round so has to play that way.
You don't have to win multiple fight in a row to win any gamemode besides push. Some angles are not contestable on the payload maps and you can pretty much lose any fight after you get to the checkpoint. You can get a full push from kings row 1st point to the 2nd in 1 fight for e.g. Even if you lost the fight midway you only lose a tiny bit of progression
Novity's take on Mauga is hilarious! Mauga is weak and Rein is strong! I'm a Brig otp who played with a Rein otp in season 8 during "Mauga meta" and we believed Mauga was garbage, and we still do! For anyone wondering, we played in diamond/master lobbies
People are looking back on OW1 6v6 with rose-tinted glasses. Tank was far more broken in OW1 than it is in OW2. Does everybody not remember the YEARS of overpowered tank toolkits and synergies completely dominating the metas? Everybody was complaining about game balance surrounding tanks for so long so Blizzard did literally the simplest thing and removed one of them. At least with one tank, you don't need to worry about broken tank synergies. Even if you still struggle with balancing their toolkits (which Blizzard has), the fewer number of them on the battlefield (2 now instead of 4) lessens their dominance of team fights which has made the game faster and allowed more skill expression by damage and support heroes which are good things. Also, it seems most people complaining about 5v5 in these videos really enjoyed the so called "off-tank" role which was about supporting your "main-tank" and rest of your team through utility. It's simply a skill issue if you can't adapt your play style as tank in OW2 to fulfill both main and off tank responsibilities.
Firstly no Tank wasnt broken in Overwatch 1, just some Heroes had Synergies with each other that where broken like double shield with orisa and sigma (its a balance problem not a format problem here so doesnt count really). Support was the overpowered Role and even now it is, Abilities that negate impact like Lamp, Brigs entire kit and basicly Overkitet Heroes where the problem. Tanks not getting impact is not a skill issue with the role your are fully at the mercy of your team, if your dps lose 1v1 on offangles where you cant help since you need to negate the enemy tank or push the backline or your support just die to a flanker cause they dont help each other, all not your job in the current format.
streaming rn doing viewer games and playing juno with upside down glasses on :) Sign up for future episodes here: www.discord.gg/christalraine
In my opinion, there's no way that OW2 will ever come close to prime OW1. Just between the cinematics, the lore, and the general vibes of OW1, it just hit a lot harder. Obviously, OW1 had its flaws, but let's be real, if they didn't shut down the OW1 servers to go along with the launch of OW2, then I think that the player count for OW2 would be dramatically lower.
Also, Loot Boxes>the current battle pass system by far.
Dude I loved loot boxes because there was always the next one could be better, tbh that would keep me playing for a while without getting bored
I think that's the sole reason why they will never add 6v6 to comp\arcade. Because it would divide the player based significantly
@@invarkul7831it’s because nobody would play 6v6
@@TheRealKush420 cope
Just my personal opinion, the music when people are talking should be quieter, or the music should be less energetic and more complimentary. It's very distracting and annoying trying to listen to what people are saying when there's music (which is good music on its own) that has an energy that detracts from the person speaking.
I still enjoy the videos and your format is great in most respects.
Thanks for the feedback! Been experimenting with music and haven’t settled on a solid plan for it yet, but I’ll use this advice to try to find what works perfectly for these videos :)
@@ChristalRaine fyi I disagree with him. keep the music as is rn imo
@@TheRedRosa lot of people struggle to separate music with vocals (even speaking regularly) so it makes sense to help make the voices be more clear and easier to understand
I personally don't have that but I still struggle sometimes with being distracted by the music instead and forgetting what the person was saying
Yo its me(rein), thanks for having me. I enjoyed this and i have some opinions in the second question that has changed XD. Have a good day
@ChristalRaine thx for having me. I'm such a huge yapper.
ew is that your face
Yappatron 💀
@@VipsyOnTwitch they call me mcyapper
The take "Too bad u broke just cry about it" is clearly of bad taste when you originaly paid for the game and got used for like 6 years of getting free stuff and suddenly you are asked to pay minimum 20 bucks per skins which more and more becomes simple recolors of old free skins... to me feels predatory why do we have to pay a 1/3rd or what the OG game cost for 1 SIMPLE SKIN and the fact that for now old coins cant be used for anything past OW1 is insane just because we complain about the price being way too high doesnt mean we are broke... and using the "Look game number 202092 sells them for twice the price of OW2 so why do you cry it could be worse" just because someone lost a leg they shouldnt complain because their neighbor lost both of their legs ?!
I do personally miss earning loot boxes. I used to play a lot more and never spent a dime on cosmetics. The current shop is relies too much on fomo in my opinion. and a skin should never cost more than a full video game. that's just absurd.
The loot box take was kinda bad, I remember not spending a cent on overwatch 1 so in the early days I had 0 skins, I played and got more and more and gradually built up the amount of coins I had especially when it came to events. I think anyone who disagrees with them being brought back as a free reward is being emotional because they spent money and didn’t get what they wanted. Especially when you knowingly spent that money to gamble.
No it’s not. We can all agree that the current system is bad and almost objectively worse. But that doesn’t make the old system good.
To put into context, people on console had to pay $60 to play Overwatch and then on top of that they threw in a cash grab Gacha system that was extremely greedy in comparison to even their F2P competition at the time.
I played Overwatch for 2 years straight and have almost no skins to show for it and every skin I got for my main character I had to grind for because there were no methods to target a character through the loot boxes. It was not good.
There are good loot box systems in paid games but OW was not one. Had they done something like hat Injustice 2 did, most people wouldn’t complain about the old system even if loot boxes did still cost money
@Kintaku ow1 lootboxes were insanely good. You got one every level up, and you leveled up pretty much every 4-5 games you also very commonly got coins in those lootboxes which you could buy any skin with. I have a lot of alts and pretty much every single one of them has a lot of skins just from the lootboxes
@@spotow9819 ok man.
@@Kintaku it sounds like you didn’t play at all, I played since season 3 and have almost every skin on my main account, I’d much rather get coins from a loot box than spend $20 for a skin
@@AdamSlander888 I literally played almost every day for about 2 years straight and was an active player until Apex came out. Please don’t discount my personal experience.
In my experience the system was extremely unrewarding. There was no way to target what I want so even when I got skins they were almost never for the character I played, and I was really unlucky when it came to getting feee coins.
But that’s the problem with loot boxes. They are random. So your experience and mine could be totally different over even the same period of time. I feel like people that defend the system never realize that they were either just lucky or had more disposable time to make the system feel more fair than it actually is.
Also please do realize that I’m not defending the current system. It is objectively worse than the loot box system was. I literally started my response with that.
My point is that even among loot box and gacha systems, the one in OW was not great but especially when you consider that you had to pay $60 to get the game in the first place.
I don’t feel like I’m being unfair here.
Whoever doesnt want 6v6 back i noticed almost always was never a tank player
I started on ow 2 on 5v5 , and i prefer 6v6 , thy had to change most of the game to actually rebalance the entire game , and that would be complicated , but trying to balance 5v5 tanks will be broken or underpowered
And yes the new tanks designed for 5v5 would have to be redesigned , but overall , it would be better for everybody
Btw i am a plat dps , gold sup and tank.
As someone that's been playing OW since 2016 on both console and PC, 6v6 is very often viewed through rose tinted glasses. There were so many problems with 6v6 and OW1 that people just happily ignore. Like how GOATs (3 tank 3 support) was meta for several seasons. Or how double shields were incredibly annoying to fight against, especially if you were an off tank player who got paired with a Hog 1 trick. Or how so few people played tanks at lower ranks that I became a tank player specifically because my games were usually 4-5 DPS and 2-1 supports.
Like even if you drastically reduced the numbers of tanks in OW2, there are some wild and some bad potential match ups in a 6v6 scenario. Like Zarya paired with someone like Mauga or Queen or Doom would be wild even if you halved their stats and doubled their CDs. Honestly I think pickable passives are a better solution to the counterswapping issue and all that and help alleviate *some* weaknesses of tanks in certain matchups without making them oppressive. Which would, in turn, make tanks more fun to play
@MxChloeB42 a lot of these problems u stated like goats for example , werent a format problem , but a balanving problem in general , these "problems" most of them at least are not the format , most of the reworks till today can work on 6v6 , 6v6 codes with balancing tanks accordingly works like a charm
Tho i do agree with a lot u said , most can be fixed and could have been fixed without changing the format
The problem is that there is no way to please everyone , they took away 6v6 and brought 5v5 , so 6v6 players were disappointed, if they bring back 6v6 , 5v5 players will get disappointed
And the percentage will differ but my point stands , tho i belive that bringing 6v6 back will need a lot of balancing changes and things to actually work , but less people would be disappointed at 6v6 coming back than keeping 5v5 imo
I started on ow2 when it launched , and i loved it , then i saw og ow content , samito and others talking about it , then i started noticing tank problems , power creep , and etc
And im not saying 6v6 will insta fix everything , but it is a step in the right direction , theproblem in ow 1 were the supports , and not the tanks
I went from a tank enthusiast to a tank hater.Playing tank is so boring that I feel like falling asleep!
@KURENANI it really is , tank raid bosses aernt fun , have you seen the ramatra vs ramatra clip? 🤣
@@MxChloeB42GOATS and Double Shield are not format issues, they are balance issues.
GOATS existed because Brigitte on release was so insanely strong that they needed to introduce role lock to counter it.
Double shield existed because Sigma and Orisa were backed up by Baptiste’s AoE healing and immortality field and Brigitte Inspire and health packs, as well as the tanks having insane sustain as well (Fortify + Kinetic Grasp / Deployable shields)
These are issues that can be solved through balance
Holy fuck, those people who are against 6v6 literally argue for 6v6. As a damage dealer you don't have more freedom in 5v5, you have less freedom. You get to the fights faster, but those fights have less impact than in 6v6. It's a one dimensional gameplay loop. With 6v6 you could actually fight and kill tanks, in 5v5 you can't kill the raid boss tank. This literally limits your options to outplay the enemy.
Also, what's up with those "we'd have to rebalance the tanks when going back to 6v6", yeah like no shit Sherlock. Nobody is arguing just putting in a 2nd tank and be done with it.
There is nothing good about the 5v5 format. There is not a single argument that hasn't been debunked in favor of 5v5. Try me.
Oh yeah? Try this argument tough guy:
Winton
@@ROBAKABIGPAPAThere's more chances for a winton to appear in a match with 2 tanks per tea. Thus, it is better.
What changed OW was the idea that all heroes should be good, even if they're easy and have a low skill ceiling. OW in 2016 and 2017 was different because it was skill based balance instead. I believe we can get some of that back if the devs realize that low skill ceiling heroes should not be so impactful. They have to have a self-intervention and realize that the game suffered from that philosophy change and do what is best for the game.
My take is if they would stick to the PvE path they've promised the game might come back to it's prime era cause it was again something unique and with the deep lore that the overwatch characters have it would have been something very very nice.
BUT
they've scrapped it entirely so it's now just another fps moba type shooter game with a hero release as the only new thing here and there.
And with so many games like overwatch being on the horizon sadly the Future for this game is darker than ever.
It's sad that we don't even get any cinematics for new heroes and it shows that team 4 is completely focused on farming skins for money rather than bringing good content.
My rank is plat btw
cold take prime Ow was Aug 13 2020 - Oct 29 2020
I will second this
real peak for me was 2021.
Season 27 was rein meta when they added 25 hp and made his hammer do 85 dmg
Was so fun actually being able to play rein post role queue
This is a really minor thing, but I would've liked for the hot takes to be a little bit less biased. They all favor OW1, and some of them could easily be reversed without changing their purpose (for example, changing the third question to "push is better than 2cp").
As someone who does enjoy ow2, it often feels like everyone just wants to talk negatively about it, and I think that variety in the hot takes could also bring more variety into the contestants' responses. It's your show though, feel free to ignore this comment. As always, it was fun to watch!
@@alvin_row that’s a great point! Will keep in mind for the future, thank you!
@@ChristalRaine I really do love the show and watch every episode! Thanks for taking my feedback positively :D
@@alvin_rowI appreciate that ❤ and ofc! I love feedback and always appreciate when people take their time to give constructive feedback
One positive thing is that the devs are actually updating the game consistently unlike in Overwatch 1, though the balancing is not good at least they we are not getting dumped for months then getting a small patch
Hot take. Push is just 2cp on rails
Wait. Rose is stating reasons why 6v6 SHOULD come back. Is she sure she's on the right side??
Also I feel seriously bad for the OW community about whether Loot boxes or Battlepasses were a better monetization system, and IMO THEY BOTH SUCK! Monetized loot boxes is INHERENTLY gambling, and Battle Pass STILL sucks cuz even after buying it you still have to grind for it. AND it's pricy as shit cuz AAA companies have gone full greed.
@ChristalRaine have you ever thought about doing an Overthink discussing the accessibility options for players with some for of handicap? They seem to be adding things in the shadows that greatly help myself as well as plenty of others I’m sure!
My hot takes no one asked for: I dislike monetization in any form. I somewhat would be down for a subscription model like an MMO, but companies are never satisfied with just that model either. And it does keep people out of the game. I also remind myself often the temporary nature of cosmetics. They will only exist as an investment for as long as the game keeps running. Can we trust any game will stay around forever? Especially with how many older games are impossible to play legally?
When it comes to balance and meta, the devs will never win. Someone, somewhere will dislike whatever meta is happening at the time. And if they are in a position of influence in the community, people will uplift and agree with that viewpoint. And there will always be something meta. We're power gamers. I think of this often with things such as TTRPGs for instance. There will always be meta classes and builds. We need to accept balance will never happen, and accept it is ok to just not like a meta or not like the game in a certain state for a while. I actually enjoy the game more, much like TTRPGs, when I allow myself to not power game for a while. Maybe the solution is a robust custom game system to allow players to create a balance of their choosing. Run comp seasons of their choosing. And, depending on HOW robust, heroes of their choosing. Essentially, creating the infrastructure for custom Overwatch mods like how people ran Classic WoW servers before Classic WoW became a thing.
I just realized I suggested a TTRPG solution to OW haha. "Please, allow us to homebrew your game Blizzard."
I’m not sure why those 2 were pro buying $20 skins when you used to get free skins via coins or loot boxes
From a qp perspective on push vs 2cp, imo push is better and more competitive
No side has a big advantage until they do by winning fights
While 2cp for qp is only 1 side of what a comp match would be, meaning you don’t get to prove that you’re better at the other side of the mode if you lose
Escort and Hybrid have the same issue just they are a bit more enjoyable than 2cp
For competitive 2cp is more balanced by being able to fight both sides
Where as Push stays as is just with less time and the other comp rules that aren’t bound by game mode
6:53 this guy has spit some truths
Thanks for having me! Now i see what u meant with my mic being weird lol, sorry! 🙈
17:00 Although I will say I like the maps design for 2 cp, the mode was a draw more than not. Personally I think there are plenty of opportunities to improve the push game mode and they have only had a few years time for us as players to learn it and for the devs to understand what they have created. I like how it offers different battle locations throughout the map and you can pick where to engage by either letting the bot push or leaving him, forcing the enemy to play where you want them to. I mean we still see people pushing the bot into the enemy during OT to give them another contest haha. I think we still have plenty to learn about push as a community.
If you ever do an imposterwatch with DPS vs 1 support or tank then I’m a great candidate for a DPS
2 cp was terrible and push is fun. I tried 2 cp pugs several times in the last month and 2cp is trash. It was fun as a novelty, but it was clear to everyone that 2cp was deleted for a reason. Several people said it.
yeah i was overwatch 1 off tank player and it felt WAY WAY better than playing tank does now
4:00 so the tank has to lose their freedom in 5v5 instead? I’m not vying for either but tank has felt abysmal for so long with how volatile counterswapping is, try out open queue or the 6v6 patch. Tanks can’t really duel a competent dps, but with the way it is now stats are piled up on the tanks to force them to win that duel. Open queue isnt really balanced, but it shows you that the hp pools make tanks much more exploitable even with a few on the field.
18:00 the music in this part is so cool, can I know where you got it from?
"Realm Overworld / Full steam ahead" from The Legend of Zelda: Spirit Tracks
@@koto2211 thank you!
here is my take
5v5 is the better gamemode
but 6v6 works better
as it is now you can just lose the entire match cuz 1 guy on your team is bad
the tank role in 5v5 is literally the team leader, if THEY are bad your gonna have a really hard time getting anything done
it just feels like the entire game hangs on the fact of "which one of these 2 players is better at being a tank"
I kind of understand but disagree with 5v5 being the better game mode because tanks need to be thanos due to the insane amount of work they need to do. Tanks are just inherently more valuable in a team right now vs what they were in ow1 and thats why it feels so frustrating to get the worse tank
@@spotow9819 yea all that is why i think 6v6 works better
PUT THE SONG A LITTLE LOUDER I CAN STILL LISTEN MY THOUGHS
about 6v6 i played Solo ranked all OW1, as a challenge if i had to play tank it was horrible, tank duos pretty much determined the game, 2 randos vs well executing tank duo is no can do, as a DPS there was no off angle to take, there was a shield or something all the time in the way, 5v5 gives more space to work whit to make plays, oh and people want longer que timese because we dont have tank players? thats why we had them in OW1.
6v6 is possible but it gets harder and harder the more heros and reworks happen, but 5v5 will never be balanced or at least fun like ow1 in its prime i'm sorry, unless you make all tanks virtually the same and really busted and have it be steamroll heavy with games revolving around tanks or leave tanks vulnerable to all cc and just have 1 really shit role to play.
11:43 totally, hamamına and Anubis for the win
I dont agree that overwatch 2 can ever be as good as overwatch 1. i already had a feeling it would be a flop before it came out. Bcs i know blizzard well. and i was right. 5vs5 is horrible. and also choosing to make it 5vs5 was stupid when it came to balancing, beacuse the game was relativly well balanced around 6vs6 and tanks were more fun to play in overwatch 1. in overwatch 2 they had to balance everything around 5vs5 which ain't working when it comes to tanks. either tanks are buffed so they are op asf or they are just a bullet sponge that get abused if they get nerfed. there no balance inbetween. plus overwatch 2 is just filled with microtransaction, with over priced skins. If i paid for all skins i got in overwatch 1 it would have costed me thousends of dollars. meanwhile all skins i gotten in overwatch 1 i haven't paid a penny for it.
And a little thing , i think this game would benefit more if it was treated more like a moba and less like a hero fps , longer cooldowns , more health and less healing i think would make playing some characters like doomfist n such less fun to play as but would be 100 more skill to know when to use the cooldowns and things ... imo
whould be less fun in general comparing it to be like every characater whould fel like your playing tank where your doing the ame thing over and over angain for the untire match
@mkvader1165 that is true , well , guess well have to wait and see the direction they take the game , i hope its a good one
It's very hard for OW to be at it's prime again at the start!
We got to keep in mind that A fresh new game hypes the audience/keeps them interested HOWEVER OW rn has made HUGE changes which keep the game extremely balanced/fun.
Blizzard is testing out new takes and adjusting if something didn't go well!
Blizzard has been doing a lot of AMAZING changes!
The game is extremely fun😎
Blizzard keeps improving on the game!!! It's incredible!
The last point! I don't like how veterans complain about OW2 and the current state. Wishing/demanding for the old times to come back🙄 It will never be the same again! Games evolve/devs have to adapt and oc earn MONEY. Blizzard doesn't force you to BUY them! It's legit/fine when people who have money spend them on cosmetics/accessories! People can spend their money on whatever they want! You can get stuff without spending money! It depends on when you started and for how long you grinded the game! I as well as many others didn't spend money on OW and we still got cool/diverse amount of skins!
44:23 Finally a person who uses objective facts! No wishful BS etc.
PS: Blizzard is showing A LOT of initiative which proves that they are trying.
Now game modes. I don't understand why people hate/love certain game modes since YOU can always make a comeback! It's never like you lost straight up just bc of one loss!
Ah yes everyone wanted a new PvP game and the old one be darned
No one really wanted a PvE game or better balancing of the already existing PvP game
As a player of OW1, Going f2p is fine as much as people may be a bit unhappy that they paid 60$ for a game 4 year prior and got the whole game after for free now have to pay for stuff again boo hoo. however, there's should be a way to earn stuff for free still (there is but it's slow and it's mostly already earned stuff)
The monetization could be better and they could probably get away with being more "psychologically" scammy about it like too get free stuff you need to check the back, or hard to get to spot, of the store add very unreliable loot boxes that can't be purchased only obtained thorough playing the game.
The preference for one game mode over another is in every game that has multiple gamemodes. A game being competitive brings out those opinions more than others
Personally I fine the game fun when it isn't balanced only because I can then look at it more casually rather then when it is "balanced" and I can see it's flaws that mostly stem from role power distribution or the "unskillful" hero choices
4:35 Holy voice crack. 😅
There's no need to comment on people 😭 Comment on the takes instead fam
@@wiltedrose6699 Aw come on. I thought it was cute tbh.
@@thawingkarma233 Then say that! If you just comment on the voice crack alone it comes of negative, especially since you didn't use a tone tag
@@wiltedrose6699 I don’t see how anyone would look at my comment and say “that is negative.”
Voice cracks are normal for men, it’s not a big deal. It’s just funny when it happens. Everyone agrees on that.
Who are considered vets? Since 2016, OW1 in general ??
@@AletheSnail7 most of these players started playing in 2016-2017!
@@ChristalRaine ooh ok! Coulda made it, I’m one year off 😭
11:29 yeah push SUUUUCKS
20 dollar skins are still criminal
as for character design i think its a bit tricky because i would split it in 2:
what geoff goodman made(old lead hero designer) and what alec made (the new lead hero designer)
i think geoff made some good designs like ball, ashe, doom, ORISA YES LET ME EXPLAIN, ana, echo, queen, and ram. these characters were somewhat fair and either had skill=reward mechanic or didnt have the bullshit that some heroes he designed which are
sombra: she COULDVE been a good designed hero but they fucked up really bad
sigma: this piece of shit has +1 too many abilities and thats the reason why hes so good in 5v5
bap: he has an immortality field, thats all i have to say, why would you add an immortality ability in the game
moira: waaay too braindead of a hero, and shes actually the first support to make goats a thing with her aoe healing
brig: i dont think i have to explain this one lol(for anyone who says double shield was caused by sigma and orisa..youre wrong,even tho sigma was kinda at fault)
kiriko: yes she was designed by goodman, because im pretty sure most of the ow2 heroes are made or somewhat made by the old hero design team, also another immortality, better 1v1 potential than most dps, goes through walls, one of the best ult in the games lmao
weaver: again another braindead support who plays for you and denies a lot by existing
mauga: its mauga
illari: she would be fine if it wasnt for pylon being up forever
this guy did well when it came to roles outside support but decided to ruin the game by making support the most skilless role in the game
as of alec im pretty sure we dont know if he had something to do with the heroes i listed but we 100% know he made venture and now juno, which are actually well made heroes that are fair compared to idk that one character that can make people immortal.
as of redesigns idk who worked on them but i know goodman did the doom, orisa, bastion and the first sombra one. most of them are fine with the doom one almost being perfect except for block not fitting with the hero at all, but the first sombra one was holy shit wtf is wrong with you, the second sombra rework is perfect, the ball one is useless, the hog one made him way more annoying to play against and removed the little skill ceiling he had, and the phara one was throwing shit at a wall until they made her broken.
TLDR: you cant separate them in ow1 and ow2 because most of the second game were made by the lead designer of the first one, goodman did some good but mostly ruined the game, and alec has a chance because as of now hes cooking .
edit: holy shit i forgot sorjourn, shes stupid and was broken for most of the ow2 lifetime lol
this comment is for the algo gods of yatub to push this more for the peepoos!
the 2cp/push one always gets me, push is better and more balanced (and i dont even really like it so), saying 'nobody hates hanamura/temple' is insane, playing first point hanamura in high elo was complete hell. yeah of course you have to win fights in a row to win push, just like any other gamemode. its just push (like koth) only has one round so has to play that way.
You don't have to win multiple fight in a row to win any gamemode besides push. Some angles are not contestable on the payload maps and you can pretty much lose any fight after you get to the checkpoint. You can get a full push from kings row 1st point to the 2nd in 1 fight for e.g. Even if you lost the fight midway you only lose a tiny bit of progression
first comment!
Yay
no one gives a shit
@@-TatoChip-I do :)
@@ChristalRaine oh well then
Novity's take on Mauga is hilarious! Mauga is weak and Rein is strong! I'm a Brig otp who played with a Rein otp in season 8 during "Mauga meta" and we believed Mauga was garbage, and we still do! For anyone wondering, we played in diamond/master lobbies
they just need to take sombra out the game
Third
People are looking back on OW1 6v6 with rose-tinted glasses. Tank was far more broken in OW1 than it is in OW2.
Does everybody not remember the YEARS of overpowered tank toolkits and synergies completely dominating the metas? Everybody was complaining about game balance surrounding tanks for so long so Blizzard did literally the simplest thing and removed one of them. At least with one tank, you don't need to worry about broken tank synergies. Even if you still struggle with balancing their toolkits (which Blizzard has), the fewer number of them on the battlefield (2 now instead of 4) lessens their dominance of team fights which has made the game faster and allowed more skill expression by damage and support heroes which are good things.
Also, it seems most people complaining about 5v5 in these videos really enjoyed the so called "off-tank" role which was about supporting your "main-tank" and rest of your team through utility. It's simply a skill issue if you can't adapt your play style as tank in OW2 to fulfill both main and off tank responsibilities.
👎🏾
Firstly no Tank wasnt broken in Overwatch 1, just some Heroes had Synergies with each other that where broken like double shield with orisa and sigma (its a balance problem not a format problem here so doesnt count really).
Support was the overpowered Role and even now it is, Abilities that negate impact like Lamp, Brigs entire kit and basicly Overkitet Heroes where the problem.
Tanks not getting impact is not a skill issue with the role your are fully at the mercy of your team, if your dps lose 1v1 on offangles where you cant help since you need to negate the enemy tank or push the backline or your support just die to a flanker cause they dont help each other, all not your job in the current format.
How can i apply to be in the vid
In my discord server! www.discord.gg/christalraine