I've been a junior flunkey in various public and private organisations in the industry - including both the DfT and SRA, and from my lowly observations I agree entirely with Richard. The civil service is like a giant flywheel. It keeps things going, it helps to moderate ministers' more eccentric ideas, it minimises corruption and legal risk, and it sets up and processes routine tasks. I wouldn't want anyone else doing most of the jobs that they do. And where they have outsourced these processes it's often gone wrong. But they need to be kept well away from day-to-day stuff where decisions need to be done without consulting teams of lawyers, and they need to be kept away from one-off projects where deftness, flexibility, and action is more important than risk-free, solid, stable procedure. And well away from projects that need a decent firebreak between well meaning but non-expert politicians and the potential for blowing up under them and the resulting de-risking to oblivion.
I’ve said for years that DfT stands for ‘Don’t Flippin’ Touch’! Every time they start meddling, costs go up and it goes to pot. They should leave HS2 phase 1 along to get built, get phase 2 moving and stop messing with things. Great interviews and show as always. Cheers, Tim
A very insightful, thoughtful and informed discussion regarding HS2. Personally, I think the issue regarding "greater scrutiny" of Phase 1 from the DfT is nothing to be alarmed about. I think it's the new administration's way of signalling they will - unlike the last lot - "get a grip" on costs. This will stand it in good stead when the government (hopefully) announce both the projects to rebuild Euston & push on from Birmingham will go ahead. "Worry not, taxpayer, we have it all under control."
It would be interesting to hear Nigel and Richards views about East West Rail and especially the final link between Bedford and Cambridge. It looks like the vested interests in South Cambridgeshire are out to wreck the project using the same tactics as were used in the Chilterns, which were the catalyst for the HS2 fiasco. Also you missed the first test trains running between Bicester and Bletchley in the news.
Quite right, and the absurd decision to only make " passive provision " ( based once again on short termist penny pinching ) for electrification of the EWR rather than actually electrifying from ( initially ) Oxford to Milton Keynes, which ought to have been glaringly obvious as the route joins already electrified lines at each end. Once again we have a diesel desert in an electrified area but unlike say the Marshlink line, this is one we have newly created and at no little cost.
Great HS2 episode, be interesting to see what gov eventually announces. Let's hope for clear decisions which include Euston and Crewe. Otherwise very limited benefit to Scotland. Good to hear about the free remembrance travel.
Great discussion of less than notional HS2 to Crewe; hopefully the northern designs will retain the tall & larger tunnels and gauges for tall sleepers & large overnight freight to future proof ? and hopefully they can retain high quality sleepers and 200+ mph speeds with 100 year life. Besides the North/South divide....what about other East / West divides (e.g. EWR, MVL upgrades with some single-tracks) ? It seems like the expensive bits in the plans are usually overlooked (hence re-engineering and plan re-designs due to fiscal deficits ! sad but true willful ignorance). Here we go forward.
@@andrewhotston983 The classic I won't use it so nobody should have it mentality that keeps UK backwards. It's abit like the boomers telling young people that they've fked up the environment, so you can't enjoy the things we used to enjoy ourselves like flying, or travelling to other cities to meet friends and families
In my opinion it makes no sense whatsoever to just go to Birmingham, we need to free up the routes further North so the existing lines can become a dedicated commuter and freight corridor!
It's surprising how little attention is paid to poor project delivery of Ph1 by HS2 Ltd and their construction contractors, including overengineering and poor (incentivisation of) cost control. It's too easy/lazy to lay the blame with 'politicians' and DfT, e.g. regarding scope. A report a year ago by the Institute for Government stated the following: "HS2 Ltd estimate that scope changes accounted for [only] £1bn of the £20-26bn increase between 2017 and 2019". When Louise Hague speaks of 'dire delivery' and 'poor project management' by HS2 Ltd, I think she deserves a little more respect than merely speculating that Starmer might soon sack her. Hopefully James Stewart will identify what has caused the delivery of Ph1 to be so 'dire', and in an ideal world, the people responsible will be held accountable; e.g. being hauled in front of the House of Commons Transport and Public Accounts Committees. 😂😂😂
1. The Daily Mirror and The Sun speculated she might be sacked. We merely reported what they’d said - and then said it would be a mistake. 2. When football managers attack their players in public, it never ends well. The best leaders / managers give their players bollockings in private but in public, they support them. I would counsel a similar approach with HS2 Phase 1. 3. Whilst I’ve never suggested that HS2 has been the best managed project - there are clearly some very serious issues to learn - I am certain that 99.999% of the population wouldn’t know where to start trying to lead or manage something as complex. Not that you’d know it from comments on social media over the last few years!!
I don't understand what's problematic about 200m HS2 trains (stopping hopefully and) passing through Stockport as 1/2/3/4 are all over 200m. btw, I've previously posed the question of a potential 400m HS2 train split at Crewe to service Liverpool and Manchester or even WCML to Scotland or across to Wales as explicit inclusion.
Issue with 200m trains are that they are shorter than the current pendolinos, meaning fewer seats per train, but still using up the same path, which is already very congested going into piccadilly (via stockport).
Briiiiant,! And so much is common sense. We have always lacked technical and project management experience in both our politicians and civil servants. For example, changes to the scope of work post the study phase, and managing risk in implementation is such an integral part of project management which often goes unrecognised in those circles. I also think that the whole approach to procurement in HS2 needs to be looked at.
Hello Richard and Chris, Firstly, I would like to say that you have new watches in my family who have come across your news about Folkestone and Warren and the Humble goats. And thank you for keeping us weary enthusiasts stuck in the middle of nowhere entertained with great stories and fantastic sense of humour. Thanks again. Stay safe.! Robert Black (Cambridgeshire)
Perhaps the point of the new Phase 1 review is to address the lack of Civils contractor performance incentives in existing contracts. Although this is obviously a simplification of the reality I recall the rationale for this situation dates back to the original Civil Engineering tenders where the industry couldn't / wouldn't expose itself to the vast commercial risk potential which existed at the time of ITT due to the immaturity of the engineering scope and political uncertainties which existed and would not bid on the basis of that commercial risk. Subsequently the HS2 chair and acting CEO John Thompson was of the view last year that as much of the Civil Engineering scope is de risked with the existence of mature scope of work, detailed designs and ground surveys, a more performance risk sharing based contract model should be sought, moving away from the low risk / low performance incentive model in existence. Perhaps last weeks Ministerial announcement is a nod of their intention to move existing Civil's contracts to a more performance incentivised model (if commercially possible?) As always chaps, another excellent subject matter and content to match.
Interesting and informative as always! Hopefully the review will conclude that the civil service and general public should have no meaningful say over infrastructure projects
You want a dictatorship? I suppose Mussolini did make the trains run on time, so it's natural for railway enthusiasts to be willing to sacrifice democracy for a few miles of new railway line! Honestly, I despair.
@@andrewhotston983 Grow up! Not allowing entitled boomers to block or interfere with infrastructure is not dictatorship! HS2 to Crewe has Parliamentary approval if anything Sunak was being a dictator when he cancelled it!
@@Adam-pk2teYou're the one that needs to grow up - the general public aren't all "entitled boomers". If you want a society where any project just gets bulldozed through, go and live in China.
@@Adam-pk2teYes, it's everyone understanding their role. The public vote for a general concept/idea. Eg. More trains, faster trains, greener trains to connect cities. Elected government and parliament decide on what goes where and how much capacity is needed. A report to scope it out by the government department. Then a budget is estimated and an arms length team deliver the specifics to meet the objectives. Surely that's how it should work?
If Louise Haigh wants to understand why HS2 is so expensive, take her to a site local to me at Burton Green where they are building a totally unnecessary cut and cover tunnel just to placate the nimbys
I know an HS2 site where all the workforce stood down for a mental health awareness day with free hot catering. Other days they brought in an ice cream van, free for all. Now, I'm not trivialising the issues here, but bringing professional caterers in is over the top. HS2 can't be trusted with the kitty.
Thank you Gents ,A very Interesting and informative show as always, In my opinion it would be madness not to go up to Manchester .Your shows are the best hours viewing on TV something to look forward to with coffee and biscuits on hand . Regards David
It is generally said to be difficult or impossible to restrict where goats go. If they will be dealing with lineside vegetation, how are they to be kept off the tracks?
I live in the Appennines in Italy. Keeping goats off the roads is a full time job, so keeping goats of the line is interesting. What do they do with the goats, eat them or milk them
One other local point about HS2A. Somebody we know sold their house to HS2 Ltd and moved out about 3 weeks ago. Their house is close to the proposed southern portal of the tunnel under Bar Hill. Why, are HS2 Ltd still buying up property 11 months after the project was cancelled. Is there a secret agenda going on here?
Great show again, guys and gal. It's a pity that Richard was not on the board for TRU. On the subject of TRU was the transport and works act Leeds to Micklefield or Church Fenton? I only ask this because of the number of crossing in the proposed closure notice. It would useful to know if the change in guage and bore diameter is going to be a real saving.
once all veichels are electric powered are small rural lines better with a smaller more frequent bus services or a very infrequent rail service.. where do you draw the line this would make an intresting future episode.
The fact that Labour are using a consultant from KPMG - a pure consultant not even with an rail engineering / civil infrastructure background is jarring. If the all government departments just stopped paying consultants Rachel Reeves would easily have the 'savings' she is looking for.
I have previously worked with KPMG over two projects and found them to be very good at challenging “but were the railway, and that’s not how we do things” thinking and getting you to justify the decisions taken and then pushing you hard on process control. Having a fresh pair of eyes can at times be very useful.
@@gordondudman240 I understand but having a bean counter who is biased towards cutting rather than expanding scope is the reason why there is so much inertia in the UK for major projects.
I think your way out of line with that as KPMG did an amazing job with Carrilion and they had a big part to play in rail engineering/ civil backround. So KPMG have a great track record.
The Lower Thames Crossing (LTC) in the UK is estimated to cost around £9 billion to build, the project was originally expected to cost £5.3 billion, but costs have increased due to delays and Britain's planning system. National Highways spent £267 million on the LTC's planning application alone. (all this public information). Again, all the expesive bits were not included in the original "ignorant" or dismal planning. After review it really is expensive build however necessary. Maybe they will put KPMG on this too to see what is what ?
Great stuff, the political parts sound just like some of the episodes of "Yes Minister". Having built several Subways in overseas countries I can relate to this. Nigel is under a misapprehension, by the way, the approach to Penzance was double track in GW days, confirmed by Cooke's Atlas of the Great Western
I used to teach a permanent secretary during the Blair government astrophysics. The stories he told me were straight out of 'Yes Minister and Yes Prime Minister@ This sounds exactly the same.. Obviously I can't divulge information. Due to my involvement with the MOD.
HS2A 'with only one tunnel'? Well I'm sat in the corner of North Staffs, hardby the edge of both Shropshire and Cheshire and HS2A was due to run in a tunnel under Whitmore, then a viaduct over WCML and into another tunnel through Bar Hill to emerge out into Cheshire and a run down into Crewe. So I'm not sure where 'just one tunnel' comes from
Hope these rumours are correct, savings suggestion for phase 2 - stop putting it all in deep cuttings and standardise the under/overbridges surely we can learn from phase 1 where nearly every bridge seems to be different method of construction!
Civil servants are fundamentally risk averse. It's in their culture - most would rather have a committee approve what they say than take a risk. Committees, minutes and files are their way of life. To paraphrase an old saying - those who can, do; those who can't, form committees and talk about doing.
A genuine question hopefully requiring a detailed response. In regards to HS2 etc, having European track separation and European high speeds (187) line sight specification makes sense should there be an intention to run both wider trains and double decker trains all the way down to the foot of Italy / South of France / med coast of Spain and Portugal. I would love to put my car on a train in Manchester and get off at Bari or Cadiz. Without any trains heading for the HS1 line, what are the benefits of British design limits compared to project costs? It is presumed train sets will be renewed every 25 years so performance could be introduced in future programs depending upon intentions. For instance travelling at 140 instead of 187 from Old Oak to Birmingham could be sabotaged if it takes an extra five minutes to find a second disabled ramp with a second person to deploy it at Birmingham International. 😎😇
It was my understanding that the original idea was for HS2 to indeed be connected to HS1 thus provinding a link to the Continent as an alternative to flying.
Without any industry expertise or knowledge ministers and civil servants will try to prescribe how the project should proceed. Outcomes and consequences will be dire.
Good show chap,s. HS2 has cost a fortune because it,s in tunnel,s through the Shires. I,m on the M6 through the week and see Hgv,s from Eastern Europe regularly, no brainer to ship by rail? Don,t the Swiss insist any Hgv journey over 80 miles has to go by rail? Limit Hgv,s to 6pm to 6am, then off the road. Simples.
Richard one railway forum online said there was a price online among the graffitiests to see who could be the first to tag thhis first ever 2024. Overall opinion was that they were following its progress using realtime trains so were lying in wait
Pretty much yeah, HS2 name is toxic particularly to more conservative and Southern voters who feel like its billions spent that wont directly benefit them, but is overwhelmingly desired by Northern and most Midland voters. The scheme is still required. So they need a new palatable name for the same scheme, calling it something like the Birmingham-Manchester/Liverpool line. I think they also need a marketing strategy that tackles the people that will say there is already a line by emphasising what they will do with released capacity, i.e. new/more frequent services and more freight, not solely benefiting the cities at the termini of the route.
Why is Andrew Gilligan criticised for hyperbole for exaggerating the financial farce of HS2, but Henry Murison can talk about "the impending collapse of the WCML" and isn't challenged at all? In the USA railways collapsed, but only after the managements ceased to spend any money on maintenance. There's no likelihood of that happening to the WCML, is there?
Never throw the car keys to a falling down drunk when you are sitting in the back seat. The pols have done harm to HS2 and in the long run raised the cost all for what? Keep the uniformed and uninterested out of complex projects.
Whilst its true that current road and rail infrastructure is getting overloaded why is the only solutions being considered is to build new road and rail links? No one seems to ask do all these people need to travel regularly huge distances in connection with work? Our current trajectory is clearly unsustainable in the long run for economic, climate change and environmental reasons. In the longterm we should be remodelling the economy to bring people and their work close to their work in such a way that people are not economically disadvantaged by not working in the South East. This could clear the rail and road network for freight and passenger and leisure travel.
Railways are about freight. The problem between Birmingham and Manchester/Liverpool/Leeds is lack of capacity road/rail to support any increase in freight. This is why no one will build a new large production facility almost anywhere in the UK. Contrast with any other country in Europe where production has expanded over the last 50 years, in the UK in real terms it has not, in fact it has shrunk very substantially. Pick an industry and look at the statistics over the period from 1965 to present. Passenger traffic is a different subject, and a high speed passenger line was always less important than increasing capacity. If you want to talk about passenger capacity look at the failure of the UK in air transport,
Lord Hendy confirmed yesterday that the land for phase 2 would be ring-fenced in the Lords, which is not the best timing for you to making this episode.
I wouldn't trust this government to deliver newspapers, let alone a new railway. All these briefings to journalists are just words, and this government has already shown that it can U-turn at the drop of a hat, regardless of how stupid it makes them look!
I love the way they keep saying a bypass through Staffordshire is going to make it more economical for Staffordshire when all the county is doing is getting chopped up to accommodate a railway line that goes through it to other parts of the country, doesn't stop or provide any access to it in Staffordshire. So really there is no economic benefit unlike what this Henri guy says. All we'll get is massive disruption. We've had one massive bypass put through West Midlands which has done dick. It's a classic example of Green Signals ignoring what's in front of them just cos they like the idea of another railway line. They also haven't considered that when renewable fueled and electric trucks come into the main stream Trains will be rendered useless as trucks will be able to drive straight to the front door of the business, be cheaper and won't be hamstrung by the union barrons like the railways are. I am all for making the railways more effective and productive but constantly chopping up the country side is not it. Especially when we've seen expensive bypasses do sweet FA.
Clearly shows your lack of understanding of traffic management. Running express service on dedicated lines means that more local/stopping trains can run on existing lines. Also electric trucks do sweet FA to solving road congestion, mining materials for EVs are also harmful to the environment, also doesn't stop pollution from rubber tyres.
@@lukjzuwhere do they get the metal from to make metal wheels that go on trains from? We already have an express service that goes from Stafford to London in around an hour or less. The only thing that gets in the way is Avanti West Coast itself and their shocking service. Staffordshire doesn’t get any benefit as it goes from Lichfield through Staffordshire and ends up in Crewe which is Cheshire. You can’t access it from any line that is currently in Staffordshire so we don’t get any benefit from it and the express train that we can access is already the quickest it will ever get it. So please go away and do something else.
Also whilst we’re at it. If you think haulage companies will switch from road to rail you massively deluded. Starters the cost and secondly they will just switch the fuel on the trucks and carry on their merry way. We have to stop electric trains running on the existing network cos we don’t have the capacity in the electric system and also they cost too much cos of the cost in electricity at the moment. So you’re basically reliant on a volatile power source to move freight about. Stop kidding yourself.
Reducing the loading gauge of a brand new railway to Victorian standards to save 3% will be the most quintessential British politics of my lifetime
I've been a junior flunkey in various public and private organisations in the industry - including both the DfT and SRA, and from my lowly observations I agree entirely with Richard.
The civil service is like a giant flywheel. It keeps things going, it helps to moderate ministers' more eccentric ideas, it minimises corruption and legal risk, and it sets up and processes routine tasks. I wouldn't want anyone else doing most of the jobs that they do. And where they have outsourced these processes it's often gone wrong.
But they need to be kept well away from day-to-day stuff where decisions need to be done without consulting teams of lawyers, and they need to be kept away from one-off projects where deftness, flexibility, and action is more important than risk-free, solid, stable procedure. And well away from projects that need a decent firebreak between well meaning but non-expert politicians and the potential for blowing up under them and the resulting de-risking to oblivion.
I’ve said for years that DfT stands for ‘Don’t Flippin’ Touch’! Every time they start meddling, costs go up and it goes to pot.
They should leave HS2 phase 1 along to get built, get phase 2 moving and stop messing with things.
Great interviews and show as always. Cheers, Tim
A very insightful, thoughtful and informed discussion regarding HS2.
Personally, I think the issue regarding "greater scrutiny" of Phase 1 from the DfT is nothing to be alarmed about. I think it's the new administration's way of signalling they will - unlike the last lot - "get a grip" on costs. This will stand it in good stead when the government (hopefully) announce both the projects to rebuild Euston & push on from Birmingham will go ahead. "Worry not, taxpayer, we have it all under control."
That was my initial thought too. Unfortunately, the stuff about possibly renegotiating contracts sets the alarm bells off. Not the way to behave
@@superted6960 Yes, that's true. It would be interesting to understand why that was said.
It would be interesting to hear Nigel and Richards views about East West Rail and especially the final link between Bedford and Cambridge. It looks like the vested interests in South Cambridgeshire are out to wreck the project using the same tactics as were used in the Chilterns, which were the catalyst for the HS2 fiasco.
Also you missed the first test trains running between Bicester and Bletchley in the news.
Quite right, and the absurd decision to only make " passive provision " ( based once again on short termist penny pinching ) for electrification of the EWR rather than actually electrifying from ( initially ) Oxford to Milton Keynes, which ought to have been glaringly obvious as the route joins already electrified lines at each end. Once again we have a diesel desert in an electrified area but unlike say the Marshlink line, this is one we have newly created and at no little cost.
You should start doing the 'Two Ronnies' farewell.
"It's good bye from me and its good bye from him"
Then both say "Goodbye" That would be cool.
You feel the tension every time too? ..They're not going to "Play" ! - they love our pain........................(Not serious N, R & S xxx)
Wonderful to hear sound and informed common sense for a whole hour. Thank you. 🌻
Thanks Marilyn!
Great HS2 episode, be interesting to see what gov eventually announces. Let's hope for clear decisions which include Euston and Crewe. Otherwise very limited benefit to Scotland.
Good to hear about the free remembrance travel.
Thanks Allan
Excellent and informative discussion based on sound evidence. Well done to all 😊
Great discussion of less than notional HS2 to Crewe; hopefully the northern designs will retain the tall & larger tunnels and gauges for tall sleepers & large overnight freight to future proof ? and hopefully they can retain high quality sleepers and 200+ mph speeds with 100 year life.
Besides the North/South divide....what about other East / West divides (e.g. EWR, MVL upgrades with some single-tracks) ?
It seems like the expensive bits in the plans are usually overlooked (hence re-engineering and plan re-designs due to fiscal deficits ! sad but true willful ignorance).
Here we go forward.
Speaking as a chartered environmental engineer (IEMA), I can confirm building a massive motorway is worse than a railway.
Speaking as a resident of the UK, I can confirm that motorways are much more useful than railway lines!
@@andrewhotston983 The classic I won't use it so nobody should have it mentality that keeps UK backwards.
It's abit like the boomers telling young people that they've fked up the environment, so you can't enjoy the things we used to enjoy ourselves like flying, or travelling to other cities to meet friends and families
and speaking as someone with their brain engaged I can confirm that both serve a purpose - just a different one.
In my opinion it makes no sense whatsoever to just go to Birmingham, we need to free up the routes further North so the existing lines can become a dedicated commuter and freight corridor!
😁Thanks Team. Great show on the HS2 special.
Cheers Max. Much appreciated!
It's surprising how little attention is paid to poor project delivery of Ph1 by HS2 Ltd and their construction contractors, including overengineering and poor (incentivisation of) cost control. It's too easy/lazy to lay the blame with 'politicians' and DfT, e.g. regarding scope. A report a year ago by the Institute for Government stated the following: "HS2 Ltd estimate that scope changes accounted for [only] £1bn of the £20-26bn increase between 2017 and 2019".
When Louise Hague speaks of 'dire delivery' and 'poor project management' by HS2 Ltd, I think she deserves a little more respect than merely speculating that Starmer might soon sack her.
Hopefully James Stewart will identify what has caused the delivery of Ph1 to be so 'dire', and in an ideal world, the people responsible will be held accountable; e.g. being hauled in front of the House of Commons Transport and Public Accounts Committees. 😂😂😂
1. The Daily Mirror and The Sun speculated she might be sacked. We merely reported what they’d said - and then said it would be a mistake.
2. When football managers attack their players in public, it never ends well. The best leaders / managers give their players bollockings in private but in public, they support them. I would counsel a similar approach with HS2 Phase 1.
3. Whilst I’ve never suggested that HS2 has been the best managed project - there are clearly some very serious issues to learn - I am certain that 99.999% of the population wouldn’t know where to start trying to lead or manage something as complex.
Not that you’d know it from comments on social media over the last few years!!
so good to see your fun and the info, keep up the good work
The G.O.A.T off all railway podcasts keep it up I might need to track down the team behind the goats to talk at Network Rails Green Network
Great episode this week
Cheers
I don't understand what's problematic about 200m HS2 trains (stopping hopefully and) passing through Stockport as 1/2/3/4 are all over 200m. btw, I've previously posed the question of a potential 400m HS2 train split at Crewe to service Liverpool and Manchester or even WCML to Scotland or across to Wales as explicit inclusion.
Issue with 200m trains are that they are shorter than the current pendolinos, meaning fewer seats per train, but still using up the same path, which is already very congested going into piccadilly (via stockport).
Briiiiant,! And so much is common sense. We have always lacked technical and project management experience in both our politicians and civil servants. For example, changes to the scope of work post the study phase, and managing risk in implementation is such an integral part of project management which often goes unrecognised in those circles. I also think that the whole approach to procurement in HS2 needs to be looked at.
Thanks
Will the goats get high vis coats ?
Hello Richard and Chris,
Firstly, I would like to say that you have new watches in my family who have come across your news about Folkestone and Warren and the Humble goats.
And thank you for keeping us weary enthusiasts stuck in the middle of nowhere entertained with great stories and fantastic sense of humour. Thanks again. Stay safe.!
Robert Black (Cambridgeshire)
Perhaps the point of the new Phase 1 review is to address the lack of Civils contractor performance incentives in existing contracts. Although this is obviously a simplification of the reality I recall the rationale for this situation dates back to the original Civil Engineering tenders where the industry couldn't / wouldn't expose itself to the vast commercial risk potential which existed at the time of ITT due to the immaturity of the engineering scope and political uncertainties which existed and would not bid on the basis of that commercial risk.
Subsequently the HS2 chair and acting CEO John Thompson was of the view last year that as much of the Civil Engineering scope is de risked with the existence of mature scope of work, detailed designs and ground surveys, a more performance risk sharing based contract model should be sought, moving away from the low risk / low performance incentive model in existence.
Perhaps last weeks Ministerial announcement is a nod of their intention to move existing Civil's contracts to a more performance incentivised model (if commercially possible?)
As always chaps, another excellent subject matter and content to match.
Thanks. Though I do worry about varying any contract post tender. It rarely costs less.
Interesting and informative as always!
Hopefully the review will conclude that the civil service and general public should have no meaningful say over infrastructure projects
You want a dictatorship? I suppose Mussolini did make the trains run on time, so it's natural for railway enthusiasts to be willing to sacrifice democracy for a few miles of new railway line!
Honestly, I despair.
@@andrewhotston983 Not letting a few irate boomers in the Chilterns interfere with National Infrastructure is not Dictatorship, grow up!
@@andrewhotston983 Grow up! Not allowing entitled boomers to block or interfere with infrastructure is not dictatorship! HS2 to Crewe has Parliamentary approval if anything Sunak was being a dictator when he cancelled it!
@@Adam-pk2teYou're the one that needs to grow up - the general public aren't all "entitled boomers". If you want a society where any project just gets bulldozed through, go and live in China.
@@Adam-pk2teYes, it's everyone understanding their role. The public vote for a general concept/idea. Eg. More trains, faster trains, greener trains to connect cities. Elected government and parliament decide on what goes where and how much capacity is needed. A report to scope it out by the government department. Then a budget is estimated and an arms length team deliver the specifics to meet the objectives. Surely that's how it should work?
If Louise Haigh wants to understand why HS2 is so expensive, take her to a site local to me at Burton Green where they are building a totally unnecessary cut and cover tunnel just to placate the nimbys
I know an HS2 site where all the workforce stood down for a mental health awareness day with free hot catering. Other days they brought in an ice cream van, free for all. Now, I'm not trivialising the issues here, but bringing professional caterers in is over the top. HS2 can't be trusted with the kitty.
Top quality as always! 👍🏻
Cheers.
SUPPER THANKS FROM ROY BURNLEY
FOR DERBY ALSTOM INTERVIEW AND HST 2
Thank you Gents ,A very Interesting and informative show as always, In my opinion it would be madness not to go up to Manchester .Your shows are the best hours viewing on TV something to look forward to with coffee and biscuits on hand . Regards David
It is generally said to be difficult or impossible to restrict where goats go. If they will be dealing with lineside vegetation, how are they to be kept off the tracks?
Hi from Glasgow Thanks for another great show Boys
Cheers Cameron!
I live in the Appennines in Italy. Keeping goats off the roads is a full time job, so keeping goats of the line is interesting. What do they do with the goats, eat them or milk them
One other local point about HS2A. Somebody we know sold their house to HS2 Ltd and moved out about 3 weeks ago. Their house is close to the proposed southern portal of the tunnel under Bar Hill. Why, are HS2 Ltd still buying up property 11 months after the project was cancelled. Is there a secret agenda going on here?
Itnis clearly still going to happen but will be a different spec and called Staffordshire connector
Great show again, guys and gal. It's a pity that Richard was not on the board for TRU. On the subject of TRU was the transport and works act Leeds to Micklefield or Church Fenton? I only ask this because of the number of crossing in the proposed closure notice. It would useful to know if the change in guage and bore diameter is going to be a real saving.
Thanks
Cheers Pete. Much appreciated!
once all veichels are electric powered are small rural lines better with a smaller more frequent bus services or a very infrequent rail service.. where do you draw the line this would make an intresting future episode.
The fact that Labour are using a consultant from KPMG - a pure consultant not even with an rail engineering / civil infrastructure background is jarring.
If the all government departments just stopped paying consultants Rachel Reeves would easily have the 'savings' she is looking for.
I have previously worked with KPMG over two projects and found them to be very good at challenging “but were the railway, and that’s not how we do things” thinking and getting you to justify the decisions taken and then pushing you hard on process control. Having a fresh pair of eyes can at times be very useful.
@@gordondudman240 I understand but having a bean counter who is biased towards cutting rather than expanding scope is the reason why there is so much inertia in the UK for major projects.
I think your way out of line with that as KPMG did an amazing job with Carrilion and they had a big part to play in rail engineering/ civil backround. So KPMG have a great track record.
The Lower Thames Crossing (LTC) in the UK is estimated to cost around £9 billion to build, the project was originally expected to cost £5.3 billion, but costs have increased due to delays and Britain's planning system. National Highways spent £267 million on the LTC's planning application alone. (all this public information).
Again, all the expesive bits were not included in the original "ignorant" or dismal planning. After review it really is expensive build however necessary.
Maybe they will put KPMG on this too to see what is what ?
@@taipizzalord4463 Bring asked, “are you sure?” and “how much?” Along with “what did you put in the budget?” Were the challenges I most remember!
Another brilliant episode ta
Great stuff, the political parts sound just like some of the episodes of "Yes Minister". Having built several Subways in overseas countries I can relate to this.
Nigel is under a misapprehension, by the way, the approach to Penzance was double track in GW days, confirmed by Cooke's Atlas of the Great Western
I used to teach a permanent secretary during the Blair government astrophysics. The stories he told me were straight out of 'Yes Minister and Yes Prime Minister@ This sounds exactly the same.. Obviously I can't divulge information. Due to my involvement with the MOD.
HS2A 'with only one tunnel'? Well I'm sat in the corner of North Staffs, hardby the edge of both Shropshire and Cheshire and HS2A was due to run in a tunnel under Whitmore, then a viaduct over WCML and into another tunnel through Bar Hill to emerge out into Cheshire and a run down into Crewe. So I'm not sure where 'just one tunnel' comes from
Fantastic as always Nigel Richard & Stef 😊 Can’t wait to see some goats 🐐 wearing Network Rail orange hi viz coats lol 😂 See ya next Thursday 🤩
where exacly are the railway goats i missed the location in the annoucement.
Hope these rumours are correct, savings suggestion for phase 2 - stop putting it all in deep cuttings and standardise the under/overbridges surely we can learn from phase 1 where nearly every bridge seems to be different method of construction!
The alignment is fixed for Phase 2a and the powers are whatever is set out in the Act.
Thanks!
Cheers Bob!
54:07 and the next bridge. Those are alright designs. It's better than the depressing concrete crap that is replacing stone arches.
Civil servants are fundamentally risk averse. It's in their culture - most would rather have a committee approve what they say than take a risk. Committees, minutes and files are their way of life. To paraphrase an old saying - those who can, do; those who can't, form committees and talk about doing.
A genuine question hopefully requiring a detailed response. In regards to HS2 etc, having European track separation and European high speeds (187) line sight specification makes sense should there be an intention to run both wider trains and double decker trains all the way down to the foot of Italy / South of France / med coast of Spain and Portugal. I would love to put my car on a train in Manchester and get off at Bari or Cadiz. Without any trains heading for the HS1 line, what are the benefits of British design limits compared to project costs? It is presumed train sets will be renewed every 25 years so performance could be introduced in future programs depending upon intentions. For instance travelling at 140 instead of 187 from Old Oak to Birmingham could be sabotaged if it takes an extra five minutes to find a second disabled ramp with a second person to deploy it at Birmingham International. 😎😇
It was my understanding that the original idea was for HS2 to indeed be connected to HS1 thus provinding a link to the Continent as an alternative to flying.
Without any industry expertise or knowledge ministers and civil servants will try to prescribe how the project should proceed. Outcomes and consequences will be dire.
Good show chap,s. HS2 has cost a fortune because it,s in tunnel,s through the Shires. I,m on the M6 through the week and see Hgv,s from Eastern Europe regularly, no brainer to ship by rail? Don,t the Swiss insist any Hgv journey over 80 miles has to go by rail? Limit Hgv,s to 6pm to 6am, then off the road. Simples.
Still think it should have been built north to south, politically it would have been easier and made the argument against phase 1 impossible.
Richard one railway forum online said there was a price online among the graffitiests to see who could be the first to tag thhis first ever 2024. Overall opinion was that they were following its progress using realtime trains so were lying in wait
Perhaps Louise Haigh needs some new SpAds before a SPAD occurs and she’s relieved of her ministerial red boxes
Good day green signals all railways in this country are very important imagine if we had no railways
Would rather not!
Did you say HS2 needs an “Executioner”?
I did not - and I suspect you know I did not….😎
The DfT make a plan and then change it and fail to learn from the past...GWR Electrification anyone?
I think we will see it resurrected but different name and being privately funded
Pretty much yeah, HS2 name is toxic particularly to more conservative and Southern voters who feel like its billions spent that wont directly benefit them, but is overwhelmingly desired by Northern and most Midland voters. The scheme is still required. So they need a new palatable name for the same scheme, calling it something like the Birmingham-Manchester/Liverpool line. I think they also need a marketing strategy that tackles the people that will say there is already a line by emphasising what they will do with released capacity, i.e. new/more frequent services and more freight, not solely benefiting the cities at the termini of the route.
"Privately funded", like all those PFI hospitals that the taxpayers pay through the nose for? Great! 😫
when was the last motoreail train run.
1995 I believe.
Is someone going to sue Gilligan for libel?
No! Because for a libel suit to succeed, reputational damage must be proved, and the reputation of HS2 is already in the gutter!
Why is Andrew Gilligan criticised for hyperbole for exaggerating the financial farce of HS2, but Henry Murison can talk about "the impending collapse of the WCML" and isn't challenged at all? In the USA railways collapsed, but only after the managements ceased to spend any money on maintenance. There's no likelihood of that happening to the WCML, is there?
I think They mean Collapse in terms of Capacity available to meet demand without major issues or constant delays
Why is Andrew Gilligan anywhere near decisions relating to national infrastructure?
@@Adam-pk2te Not the most apposite word, then!
@@stephendavies6949 He isn't.
@@stephendavies6949 Exactly!
Never throw the car keys to a falling down drunk when you are sitting in the back seat. The pols have done harm to HS2 and in the long run raised the cost all for what? Keep the uniformed and uninterested out of complex projects.
Just GET. IT. BUILT.
FFS!!
Whilst its true that current road and rail infrastructure is getting overloaded why is the only solutions being considered is to build new road and rail links?
No one seems to ask do all these people need to travel regularly huge distances in connection with work? Our current trajectory is clearly unsustainable in the long run for economic, climate change and environmental reasons.
In the longterm we should be remodelling the economy to bring people and their work close to their work in such a way that people are not economically disadvantaged by not working in the South East.
This could clear the rail and road network for freight and passenger and leisure travel.
Railways are about freight. The problem between Birmingham and Manchester/Liverpool/Leeds is lack of capacity road/rail to support any increase in freight. This is why no one will build a new large production facility almost anywhere in the UK. Contrast with any other country in Europe where production has expanded over the last 50 years, in the UK in real terms it has not, in fact it has shrunk very substantially. Pick an industry and look at the statistics over the period from 1965 to present. Passenger traffic is a different subject, and a high speed passenger line was always less important than increasing capacity. If you want to talk about passenger capacity look at the failure of the UK in air transport,
Lord Hendy confirmed yesterday that the land for phase 2 would be ring-fenced in the Lords, which is not the best timing for you to making this episode.
Too much reviews to waste time Just build it in full in the original plans, no other alternatives are better.
Plus East Midlands and North East always get shafted for some reason
I wouldn't trust this government to deliver newspapers, let alone a new railway. All these briefings to journalists are just words, and this government has already shown that it can U-turn at the drop of a hat, regardless of how stupid it makes them look!
I love the way they keep saying a bypass through Staffordshire is going to make it more economical for Staffordshire when all the county is doing is getting chopped up to accommodate a railway line that goes through it to other parts of the country, doesn't stop or provide any access to it in Staffordshire. So really there is no economic benefit unlike what this Henri guy says. All we'll get is massive disruption. We've had one massive bypass put through West Midlands which has done dick. It's a classic example of Green Signals ignoring what's in front of them just cos they like the idea of another railway line. They also haven't considered that when renewable fueled and electric trucks come into the main stream Trains will be rendered useless as trucks will be able to drive straight to the front door of the business, be cheaper and won't be hamstrung by the union barrons like the railways are. I am all for making the railways more effective and productive but constantly chopping up the country side is not it. Especially when we've seen expensive bypasses do sweet FA.
Clearly shows your lack of understanding of traffic management.
Running express service on dedicated lines means that more local/stopping trains can run on existing lines.
Also electric trucks do sweet FA to solving road congestion, mining materials for EVs are also harmful to the environment, also doesn't stop pollution from rubber tyres.
@@lukjzuwhere do they get the metal from to make metal wheels that go on trains from? We already have an express service that goes from Stafford to London in around an hour or less. The only thing that gets in the way is Avanti West Coast itself and their shocking service. Staffordshire doesn’t get any benefit as it goes from Lichfield through Staffordshire and ends up in Crewe which is Cheshire. You can’t access it from any line that is currently in Staffordshire so we don’t get any benefit from it and the express train that we can access is already the quickest it will ever get it. So please go away and do something else.
Also whilst we’re at it. If you think haulage companies will switch from road to rail you massively deluded. Starters the cost and secondly they will just switch the fuel on the trucks and carry on their merry way. We have to stop electric trains running on the existing network cos we don’t have the capacity in the electric system and also they cost too much cos of the cost in electricity at the moment. So you’re basically reliant on a volatile power source to move freight about. Stop kidding yourself.
@@lukjzuAt present, Staffordshire has a service of express trains. HS2 will end all that - how is that an improvement for Staffordshire?
@@LetsGo_41 Glad you're not a transport planner. Um, are you?????
Thanks
Cheers Richard. Much appreciated!
Thanks!
Thanks
Thanks Paul. Much appreciated.