Legitimately the first time I heard of a queerplatonic romance I was confused, so I looked it up and the moment I read the definition i thought “Oh, it’s just Moirallegiance.”
I've thought about making a follow up video talking about auspistices for a while . It's a topic that's rarely talked about and it might be interesting to tackle .
3:25 Nepeta doesn't hunt as bloodsport! She hunts what she eats! During Act 5 she even explicitly talks about distrusting Vriska for killing things for sport instead of to eat during roleplay sessions, and prefers not to roleplay with Vriska for that reason (as well as the Tavros's legs, Sollux's trust, Aradia's entire home village, and Terezi's eyes shaped hole in the trust...)
i know, i was mostly joking . still though, considering lusii are parents on alternia she almost certainly was or has orphaned multiple trolls before , possibly as much as eridan or feferi . nepeta is one of the better trolls to come out of alternia, but she has prominent flaws all the same .
@@shimadubs Coming out as mostly alright of a person from an environment literally designed to foster horrid behaviour first and foremost I'd say is pretty impressive tho. It is probably safe to assume that hunting lusii from a wilderness environment could tip the odds away from orphaning another troll as well, so I wouldn't expect Nepeta to have Eridan or Feferi levels of orphaning.
@@AmbrosiaPoly-yolkEgg regardless of environment, she still did the things she did . i will agree though that her coming out of it as a pretty decent person is impressive, and your point about wilderness environment effecting orphanage rates makes sense . nepeta is cool awesumeeeome
Gotta love Feferi and Eridan making the necessary cameo inherent to any discussion of the pale quadrant Turns out no matter how alien a system of relationships gets, entitled dipshits will still manage to fuck it up
5:57 I think that this phenomenon can be boiled down to Hussie being incredibly smart, and generally writing things that make some sort of sense in his larger stories, even if only by strange esoteric logic as much of Homestuck operates on (which I am all here for) He doesn't tend to research stuff to see if it's a real thing, and often ignores the implications of other things focusing more on his own level of arcane bullshit, leaving lots of gaps where not directly important to the main running story, and some insensitive crap to boot. I don't think Hussie is malicious, just another weirdo who's special interests leage notable gaps in knowledge, while enabling making some amazing stuff.
Good point, but I'd say it goes further than that. Hussie can write interesting concepts at surface level, showing repeated usage of mystery and intrigue in almost every layer of homestucks story, at least in acts 1-5. Where hussie fails is executing on that intrigue, where if im being honest, i dont think hussie ever really knows where hes going with his concepts. Lord English is built up an extraordinary amount, but ends up becoming more of a background threat than one more consistently pervasive in the story (examples for this would be something like HIC or Jack Noir). In short, I wouldn't exactly say hussie ignores the implications of his works, I would more say he doesn't even realize there are implications until pointed out to him.
@@shimadubs I will say, for Lord English's threat level, he seems to be an omnipresent threat in the way that his combination of Lord of Time classpect and being just a general asshole combine to make him a passive threat through whose acts of simply becoming his final form does immense damage to everything surrounding him. Jack and HIC are more active threats due to both being more intelligent and being pawns in the game Lord English has lucked his way into being the master of.
as someone in a qpr moiraillegiance is the easiest way to explain it to someone who doesnt get it and im like well I have to respect homestuck for that. God damn.
Awesome video, as someone who experiences romance in an unconventional way (mostly due to neurodivergence), troll romance has always made more sense to me than some parts of human romance. Specifically moiraillegiance always stuck with me (especially as I have some strikingly similar relationships in my own life) so I always like seeing people talking about it ^^
this comment is just a ramble and kind of tangential to the amazing and very informative point you make with this video, but this really puts into perspective how much homestuck was ahead of its time in a lot of unexpected ways. i originally got into the comic around the tail end of its runtime in 2016, and had delved a into a lot of older fan content from around 2012. i was pretty young at the time so i enjoyed it but i didn't really understand what i was reading. just recently, i've been rereading it a little at a time and trying to engage more faithfully with the story, and my god, homestuck is a totally different experience if you read with a fresh mind in 2024. there are so many things that are just so completely clear in retrospect that a lot of fans at the time just did not understand. it's kinda crazy how little this is talked about, but homestuck is so unbelievably queer in almost every aspect; it's a story about the nature of humanity, and of the emotional strain of bearing the pressures of societal expectation, and dealing with those expectations as a growing teenager. the familiar culture of the humans in the story is examined by the contrast they have with their alien counterparts, who deal with completely different societal expectations of their own. and so the story unpacks queerness and the nature of growing up queer in a very unique way that really gets into the nuances of what it's like, and how teens deal with accepting their own identities. i feel like in a weird way, 8 years after the original story has ended, right now is the perfect time to get into homestuck. i'm very happy to see new fans like you that are infected by the passion and uniqueness of the story, and make great fan content for it. i'm slowly going through your channel right now and i love your dubbing! you've earned a sub from me :3
OH MY GOD THANK YOU ! ! ! this is such an amazing response and im so glad my silly little video got ya to talk about this cool ass stuff a bit ! ! homestuck is so incredibly queer and analyzing all the different ways this story connects to that is so fun and so amazing to me . thank you for watching and super thank you for commenting ! ! !
Moirallegiance as described in-comic is described as specifically between a violent troll and a soothing troll that keeps them in check, like a therapy dog situation. I feel like that's something that a lot of people ignore. Then again, kismesissitude is said to be explicitly about "sexual attraction" and that sorta gets clarified to not necessarily be the case later, when John's black crush on Terezi is brought up. Maybe it makes sense to change the initial idea of moirallegiance to fit a non-Alternian context too.
Id agree with the idea that Moirallegiance is more than the "violent troll and soothing troll" thing it's sometimes described as. Vriska and Terezi could maybe be described as this, but it seems their relationship is more of a mutual messing around compounded by general(?) honesty and interpersonal talk between them. Homestuck is inherently interpretive though, and how you take this depends on you.
ngl i feel like in troll society, moirailigence is viewed as something romantic, as is every other quadrant. But by human standards, it is definitely something more in line with a QPR/viewed as platonic.
Moirallegience is always depicted as a level-headed troll calming a violent troll. That's why it exists, both functionally in the webcomic and explicitly stated by the author. I do not find this to be particularly comparable to QPRs. The extremely common (better) fanon interpretation of moirallegience definitely is though.
i mostly meant non-romantic from a "standard" human perspective . it's still romantic within it's own definition of romance, but discussing what the definition of romance is or what romance even means is far beyond the scope of this video .
there are two umbrella types of romance, red and black. red includes matesprites and moirails, black includes kismesis and auspistice. matesprits, the heart quadrant. closest to what we would call “dating.” usually implying a sort of romantic and/or sexual relationship. moirails, the diamond quandrant. this is heavily covered here. a close relationship void of romance. “platonic soulmates” if you will. kismesis, the spade quadrant. this can be easiest described as “hate fucking.” basically, joker/batman kind of stuff. you hate a person so much you become obsessed with them. auspistice, the club quadrant. this one is the hardest to explain. think of it as a kismetude, along with another person who is a sort of barrier between them. someone they both trust, and who can keep them from killing each other. trolls are “legally” required to collect genetic material (if you catch my drift) for the purpose of new generations of trolls being created. if kismesis end up getting too violent and end up killing the other or just split up, it can cause them to not have enough and end up being culled !
@@spritewhisper Thanks for explaining it! I think the term kismesis comes from kissing and nemesis, and reminds me of Catra and Adora in the early seasons of She Ra.
not sure u rlly get what I'm trying to get at here , but to be fair , "predict" is probably the wrong word . I more just meant like , did Homestuck accidentally hit this shit on the mark . which , in my opinion , it 100% did .
Maybe people should stop trying to define "new" social relationship dynamics directly in relation to their flawed perceptions of "society" or ones need to stand apart from it.
Homestuck also invented being gay (Rosemary)
hello funk mclovin thank you for making homestuck
@@shimadubs hello shimanot thank you for increasing the UA-cam Homestuck presence. You and Hussie Hints have the sauce
I hope you enjoy your queer singularity :o) things are getting... critical atm
also da ekat
Homestuck has been quite queer friendly throughout its history and nearly always unintentionally
I'm willing to bet a lot of it was actually intentional lol
@@AlexMourning5635I mean the author recently came out as clowngender so like... yeah. 💜
Legitimately the first time I heard of a queerplatonic romance I was confused, so I looked it up and the moment I read the definition i thought “Oh, it’s just Moirallegiance.”
Ah yes, the four types of love
♥️ Love
♠️ Hate-boning
♦️ Queerplatonic
♣️ Unlicenced Therapy
I've thought about making a follow up video talking about auspistices for a while . It's a topic that's rarely talked about and it might be interesting to tackle .
Homestuck also invented gay people as a whole from what I know
3:25 Nepeta doesn't hunt as bloodsport! She hunts what she eats!
During Act 5 she even explicitly talks about distrusting Vriska for killing things for sport instead of to eat during roleplay sessions, and prefers not to roleplay with Vriska for that reason (as well as the Tavros's legs, Sollux's trust, Aradia's entire home village, and Terezi's eyes shaped hole in the trust...)
i know, i was mostly joking . still though, considering lusii are parents on alternia she almost certainly was or has orphaned multiple trolls before , possibly as much as eridan or feferi . nepeta is one of the better trolls to come out of alternia, but she has prominent flaws all the same .
@@shimadubs Coming out as mostly alright of a person from an environment literally designed to foster horrid behaviour first and foremost I'd say is pretty impressive tho.
It is probably safe to assume that hunting lusii from a wilderness environment could tip the odds away from orphaning another troll as well, so I wouldn't expect Nepeta to have Eridan or Feferi levels of orphaning.
@@AmbrosiaPoly-yolkEgg regardless of environment, she still did the things she did . i will agree though that her coming out of it as a pretty decent person is impressive, and your point about wilderness environment effecting orphanage rates makes sense . nepeta is cool awesumeeeome
Gotta love Feferi and Eridan making the necessary cameo inherent to any discussion of the pale quadrant
Turns out no matter how alien a system of relationships gets, entitled dipshits will still manage to fuck it up
i love eridan he sucks
I can’t believe homestuck invented everything in existance also kewl vid
5:57 I think that this phenomenon can be boiled down to Hussie being incredibly smart, and generally writing things that make some sort of sense in his larger stories, even if only by strange esoteric logic as much of Homestuck operates on (which I am all here for)
He doesn't tend to research stuff to see if it's a real thing, and often ignores the implications of other things focusing more on his own level of arcane bullshit, leaving lots of gaps where not directly important to the main running story, and some insensitive crap to boot.
I don't think Hussie is malicious, just another weirdo who's special interests leage notable gaps in knowledge, while enabling making some amazing stuff.
Good point, but I'd say it goes further than that. Hussie can write interesting concepts at surface level, showing repeated usage of mystery and intrigue in almost every layer of homestucks story, at least in acts 1-5. Where hussie fails is executing on that intrigue, where if im being honest, i dont think hussie ever really knows where hes going with his concepts. Lord English is built up an extraordinary amount, but ends up becoming more of a background threat than one more consistently pervasive in the story (examples for this would be something like HIC or Jack Noir). In short, I wouldn't exactly say hussie ignores the implications of his works, I would more say he doesn't even realize there are implications until pointed out to him.
@@shimadubs I will say, for Lord English's threat level, he seems to be an omnipresent threat in the way that his combination of Lord of Time classpect and being just a general asshole combine to make him a passive threat through whose acts of simply becoming his final form does immense damage to everything surrounding him. Jack and HIC are more active threats due to both being more intelligent and being pawns in the game Lord English has lucked his way into being the master of.
@@shimadubsthis man does NOT know how deep the Homestuck canon rabbit hole goes (LE is EVERYWHERE)
@@AmbrosiaPoly-yolkEgg i suppose, but lord english being a passive threat while his classpect is described as "the most active" feels unintentional.
@@victorvirgili4447 im not a man . dont call me that .
as someone in a qpr moiraillegiance is the easiest way to explain it to someone who doesnt get it and im like well I have to respect homestuck for that. God damn.
Awesome video, as someone who experiences romance in an unconventional way (mostly due to neurodivergence), troll romance has always made more sense to me than some parts of human romance. Specifically moiraillegiance always stuck with me (especially as I have some strikingly similar relationships in my own life) so I always like seeing people talking about it ^^
YES HELL YES BASED ASS COMMENT THIS IS SO GOD DAMN COOL
urm, what the homestuck???
IVE BEEN THINKING ABT THIS YES AAAH you cooked im afraid, you devoured even
TYYYYY ! ! ! !
this comment is just a ramble and kind of tangential to the amazing and very informative point you make with this video, but this really puts into perspective how much homestuck was ahead of its time in a lot of unexpected ways.
i originally got into the comic around the tail end of its runtime in 2016, and had delved a into a lot of older fan content from around 2012. i was pretty young at the time so i enjoyed it but i didn't really understand what i was reading. just recently, i've been rereading it a little at a time and trying to engage more faithfully with the story, and my god, homestuck is a totally different experience if you read with a fresh mind in 2024. there are so many things that are just so completely clear in retrospect that a lot of fans at the time just did not understand.
it's kinda crazy how little this is talked about, but homestuck is so unbelievably queer in almost every aspect; it's a story about the nature of humanity, and of the emotional strain of bearing the pressures of societal expectation, and dealing with those expectations as a growing teenager. the familiar culture of the humans in the story is examined by the contrast they have with their alien counterparts, who deal with completely different societal expectations of their own. and so the story unpacks queerness and the nature of growing up queer in a very unique way that really gets into the nuances of what it's like, and how teens deal with accepting their own identities.
i feel like in a weird way, 8 years after the original story has ended, right now is the perfect time to get into homestuck. i'm very happy to see new fans like you that are infected by the passion and uniqueness of the story, and make great fan content for it. i'm slowly going through your channel right now and i love your dubbing! you've earned a sub from me :3
OH MY GOD THANK YOU ! ! ! this is such an amazing response and im so glad my silly little video got ya to talk about this cool ass stuff a bit ! ! homestuck is so incredibly queer and analyzing all the different ways this story connects to that is so fun and so amazing to me . thank you for watching and super thank you for commenting ! ! !
Moirallegiance as described in-comic is described as specifically between a violent troll and a soothing troll that keeps them in check, like a therapy dog situation. I feel like that's something that a lot of people ignore.
Then again, kismesissitude is said to be explicitly about "sexual attraction" and that sorta gets clarified to not necessarily be the case later, when John's black crush on Terezi is brought up. Maybe it makes sense to change the initial idea of moirallegiance to fit a non-Alternian context too.
Id agree with the idea that Moirallegiance is more than the "violent troll and soothing troll" thing it's sometimes described as. Vriska and Terezi could maybe be described as this, but it seems their relationship is more of a mutual messing around compounded by general(?) honesty and interpersonal talk between them. Homestuck is inherently interpretive though, and how you take this depends on you.
i never really thought the term queerplatonic was coined that EARLY :O
ALSO NICE VIDEO BTW :D
yeah actually a lot of queer concepts have existed for longer than most ppl think . the community has been around forever lol
Honestly you cooked, delivered, and ate in this video. Very clear and informative c:
TYSM OMG GIJNFDJ
ngl i feel like in troll society, moirailigence is viewed as something romantic, as is every other quadrant. But by human standards, it is definitely something more in line with a QPR/viewed as platonic.
i like the semi-low stakes and realness of this video, it provides great nuanced insight :D
5:06 This is true for SO MANY things in Homestuck lmao
Good video! The romance label of moirailegeance made a ton of sense to me as a (unknowingly) queer teen
Moirallegience is always depicted as a level-headed troll calming a violent troll. That's why it exists, both functionally in the webcomic and explicitly stated by the author. I do not find this to be particularly comparable to QPRs. The extremely common (better) fanon interpretation of moirallegience definitely is though.
interesting . id argue that the comic intentionally veers more into the latter territory further in, but i get where you're coming from .
wow this is a really good and interesting video, ive been wondering about it
Yes yes it did.
And also no it didn't
Yeah if it didn’t already predict it, they might have bolstered it
but the point is that moirallegiance IS romantic in the eyes of trolls! its not "non-romantic but still important". its still called a kind of romance
i mostly meant non-romantic from a "standard" human perspective . it's still romantic within it's own definition of romance, but discussing what the definition of romance is or what romance even means is far beyond the scope of this video .
wow awesome
yes.
very cool
Can u explain the troll romance? I LITERALLY CANT GET IT
there are two umbrella types of romance, red and black.
red includes matesprites and moirails, black includes kismesis and auspistice.
matesprits, the heart quadrant. closest to what we would call “dating.” usually implying a sort of romantic and/or sexual relationship.
moirails, the diamond quandrant. this is heavily covered here. a close relationship void of romance. “platonic soulmates” if you will.
kismesis, the spade quadrant. this can be easiest described as “hate fucking.” basically, joker/batman kind of stuff. you hate a person so much you become obsessed with them.
auspistice, the club quadrant. this one is the hardest to explain. think of it as a kismetude, along with another person who is a sort of barrier between them. someone they both trust, and who can keep them from killing each other. trolls are “legally” required to collect genetic material (if you catch my drift) for the purpose of new generations of trolls being created. if kismesis end up getting too violent and end up killing the other or just split up, it can cause them to not have enough and end up being culled !
@@spritewhisper THANK U
@@UnicrnXDyou are so very welcome my friend
@@spritewhisper i actually knew homestuck 2019 but i never thought that troll romance that important 😭
@@spritewhisper Thanks for explaining it! I think the term kismesis comes from kissing and nemesis, and reminds me of Catra and Adora in the early seasons of She Ra.
Act 5 of Homestuck is from what, 2010 or 11? And the first usage of the term was in 2010, so probably not.
not sure u rlly get what I'm trying to get at here , but to be fair , "predict" is probably the wrong word . I more just meant like , did Homestuck accidentally hit this shit on the mark . which , in my opinion , it 100% did .
HOW MANY LETTERS IN SHIMANOT????
EIGHT!!!!!!!! XXXXD
someone had a very good comment here and I misclicked and removed it to that person I'm so sorry
solid vid 👍
yeaj
where is spades slick?
?
right behind you
Maybe people should stop trying to define "new" social relationship dynamics directly in relation to their flawed perceptions of "society" or ones need to stand apart from it.
this comment is so incredibly vague i have no idea what you're trying to talk about