Yes, Jesus Christ is indeed present in the Eucharist. It's truly a beautiful, powerful, and humbling experience to receive our Lord in this way! Thank you, Hank. Stay the course, dear brother! +
What do you mean Jesus Christ is "present" in the Eucharist. You are NOT actually eating the Lord's body - you know that right? That is one of many of the false teachings of the catholic church and I see of the orthodox church as well. I thank God that I can read, study and rely on the Word of God for my self. Don't need a pope, priest or any man to present me before the Lord.
Catholics read and study the scripture as well and lean on the 2000 year old teachings of the Church. I will pray that someday you will come to know the joy of receiving the Eucharist.
Thank you. As an old-school, orthodox/confessional Lutheran pastor, I really appreciate that you explained the Lutheran understanding and belief better than most Lutherans can!
EUCHARIST: THE BIBLICAL LANGUAGE OF MIRACLE The reason why we are Christians is that we follow the teachings of Christ, and we recognized that Jesus Christ is the Bread of Life that came down from heaven. We are part of God’s New Covenant, and in fact, we can only see the words “New Covenant” in the Eucharistic meal. This is the primary reason why Eucharist is the center of worship of the Early Christians and the Catholic Church as the continuation of the Kingdom of God here on earth. However, a lot of non-Catholics and anti-Catholics claim that we, Catholics, are taking the word of God out of context for 1500 years. And through this presentation, we can see why “Biblical” Christians miss the plain language found in the Bible that united all Christians for 1500 years until the Reformation tried to break that unity. Every time we are discussing with a Protestant, we are doing our best to explain Eucharist as a miracle that even the species of the bread and wine remain, Jesus Christ is really present. I always hear the complaints that we are just deceiving ourselves and that we are worshipping a piece of bread. Because of this, we have to explain it to our brothers and sisters in Christ through the guidance of the Holy Spirit, so that we can be united once again. In order for us to clearly see the Last Supper as a miracle, we have to compare it to other accounts of miracles. Let’s compare it to the accounts of the multiplication of the bread and the fish because this event took place during the Passover when His followers increased. The account of feeding the 5000 men is present not just in John 6:1-15, but this can also be found in Matthew 14:13-21, Mark 6:30-44, and Luke 9:10-17. Jesus Christ also fed 4000 people found in Matthew 15:32-39 and Mark 8:1-10. As we can see, Jesus Christ is preparing us for the miracle of the miracles that took place on the Holy Thursday. By the way, there are also some people who do not believe that Jesus Christ multiplied the bread and the fish. So, we should also ask ourselves. How do we know that these accounts were real miracles? If we will look deeply at the passages that I cited, we can see a biblical pattern that is present in all the passages. Personally speaking, I believe that one of the key phrases is found in John 6:11 that are commonly ignored even by Catholics, including me. Here is what it says. John 6:11 11 Jesus then took the loaves, and when he had given thanks, he distributed them to those who were seated; so also the fish, as much as they wanted. What does this verse mean? We will break it down into three. The first part was when Jesus Christ took the loaves because the loaves would suddenly experience the miracle later. Then, the second part was when Jesus Christ gave thanks and He blessed and consecrated it. Lastly, the third part was the miracle. He distributed the loaves to the people seating. Remember, the number of loaves before He took it was still 5 and after He blessed it and distributed it, it’s more than the people seating around Him. And He didn’t just do it using the loaves. He also used the fish and He performed the same three actions. Think about this. This language is not just present here as I repeat myself. You can look at all other verses and you will see the beauty of the miracle. If the Protestants will hear you saying this, then we should expect them to say “AMEN…I agree…Praise the Lord”. The problem for them is that there are also other passages where we can see the same actions. These passages include Matthew 26:26-29, Mark 14:22-25, Luke 22:14-23, and 1 Corinthians 11:23-26. Let me just quote the same phrase using the Gospel according to St. Matthew. Matthew 26:26 26 Now as they were eating,[a] Jesus took bread, and blessed, and broke it, and gave it to the disciples and said, “Take, eat; this is my body.” OK, here comes the exciting part. Let us now understand the words of Jesus Christ in context. We will now break it down into three. The first part was when Jesus Christ took the bread and He was preparing everyone for the miracle. Then, the second part was when Jesus Christ gave thanks and He blessed and consecrated it. Lastly, the third part was when the miracle took place. What happened after He blessed it? He broke it, gave it to the disciples and He said, “…this is My Body”. He didn’t stop from there. That was not the only thing that he did. He also took the cup. He gave thanks and He consecrated the wine. Then He said, “…this is the Blood of the New Covenant”. Matthew 26:27 27 And he took a cup, and when he had given thanks he gave it to them, saying, “Drink of it, all of you; 28 for this is my blood of the[b] covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. If we will present this and other Eucharistic Supper passages to our Protestant brothers and sisters, will we be able to hear the words “AMEN…I agree…Praise the Lord”? Brothers and sisters, what we are simply seeing is the clear language that was understood by the Christians from 1st Century AD up to now. Our Lord is so powerful that when He said it is His Body and it is His Blood while applying this biblical language of miracle, nature obeys Him. When God said “Let there be light”, there was light (Genesis 1:3). When Jesus said “This is My Body”, and “This is the Blood of the New Covenant”, who are we to reject that it’s really Christ’s Body and Blood? We are Christians, and as Christians, we are to accept EVERY part of the Gospel of Christ. To both non-Catholics and anti-Catholics, we can offer them two options. a. If Jesus Christ is inconsistent with what He says, then the Catholic Church is guilty of idolatry and superstition. b. If Jesus Christ is consistent with what He says, then the people who are separated from the Catholic Church are lacking the key of the gospel that unlocks God’s greatest mystery of love.
I can remember as a young Roman Catholic hearing the 2nd chapter of Acts being read in catechism. To a young imaginative boy it was a electrifying tale that offered great hope of experiencing it. Tongues of flame over the head, speaking in tongues, who would not want to see that happen. I even went several times to the back of St. Anthony church during recess, to read the 2nd chapter of Acts again in the days before the sacrament of Confirmation. The long, dry ceremony in Latin was a great disappointment to me. I even asked a nun afterwards why nothing took place similar to the account of the book of Acts. I do not remember her answer but do remember she sidestepped my question. I can honestly say I was agnostic from that point on because what was taught by the Catholic Church regarding Confirmation did not line up with scripture. I felt very close to God at that age but that closeness fell away due to the disappointment of not receiving the Holy Ghost. Some 25 years later I received the baptism of the Holy Ghost and spoke in tongues. It was a powerful and emotionally moving experience. The trouble is, the traditions of men, in most all denominational Christianity, makes the word of God to no effect. Mark 7:13 KJVS [13] Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye. Our Lord was talking about the Pharisees of his day, but I think it applies to many of today's Christian churches. The format followed by most churches of today does not follow that of the early church. 1 Corinthians 14:26-28 KJVS [26] How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying. [27] If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret. [28] But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God. Even in the churches that are charismatic you do not see the above wide participation of the members. The Spirit of truth is intentionally bridled to protect denominational doctrines. Mainly the doctrine of a eternal hell which has garnered enormous amounts of wealth over the ages for the various Christian denominations.
The teaching and practice that Jesus's presence is upon and through the bread and wine at community conveys error, in that each believer who comes to the table to partake in bread and wine already have the presence of Christ in them by virtue of the Holy Spirit, and because of that constant presence in the believer, the believer carries with him or her all the grace Christ wishes to bestow upon believers. Insisting that Christ's presence is upon the bread and wine and can be received by the believe through eating the bread and drinking the wine, is a distortion of the teaching of the true indwelling of the Holy Spirit of Christ in every believer, everyone who walks in faith in Christ's redemptive and sanctifying work on the believer's behalf.
False. New Testament replete with narratives explicitly detailing the pouring of the Spirit onto followers. Also replete with the OMNIPOTENCE AND OMNISCIENCE of Christ, as the Spirit, who states that the bread and wine are HIS body and blood, with no conditions attached. The error made is by Protestants who superimpose their finite human thinking onto the mystery, one of MANY, thereby distorting the scriptural directive. Luther accepted the REAL presence, so what EXACTLY is the source of this point of diversion by Protestants.
“Do not work for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.”” John 6:27 NASB1995
If the Lord of the universe, creator of all things, sustainer of life and author of life is in the Eucharist,.... How could that be a non essential doctrine?
The question of the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist is debated, it is secondary as Christian theologians have taken different approaches in explicating the doctrine (e.g. transubstantiation, illocial presence, mystery, etc.), but there are still profound implications. The dialogues are to be carried out in the spirit of humility, gentleness and respect. The maxim applies: “In essentials unity; in nonessentials, liberty; and in all things, charity.” Check out the following podcast> www.equip.org/unplugged/the-mystery-of-the-eucharist-with-nathan-jacobs/
If it is consecrated by an Apostolic priest then the Presence is real and the doctrine essential... What Protestants eat is that which is figurative, and therefore non-essential.
This quotation you made is of human origin , therefore in error. Christ directly states “ THIS is my body, THIS is my blood” with no conditional statements afterwards. The idea that this is a secondary matter is a false invention of human origin, therefore, defective. Christ’s statements are of divine origin, PERIOD.@@BibleAnswerMan
Most people have to know the mystery. I praise Father God that I am one of these people. I’m satisfied not to know the mysteries that He has not revealed to me. I’m ok with that. And you know what He has revealed some His mysteries to me and that’s probably why. I have lots of work to do for Him. He can fill me in when I meet Him. “Indigenous Potliquor”. Hope your well Hank. God bless you.
Yes, Jesus Christ is indeed present in the Eucharist. It's truly a beautiful, powerful, and humbling experience to receive our Lord in this way! Thank you, Hank. Stay the course, dear brother! +
What do you mean Jesus Christ is "present" in the Eucharist. You are NOT actually eating the Lord's body - you know that right? That is one of many of the false teachings of the catholic church and I see of the orthodox church as well. I thank God that I can read, study and rely on the Word of God for my self. Don't need a pope, priest or any man to present me before the Lord.
Is the real presence of Jesus Christ a hard teaching?
Chris Oliver Dela Cruz It was the reason many followers of Jesus walked away from Him in the Gospel of St John, chapter 6.
Catholics read and study the scripture as well and lean on the 2000 year old teachings of the Church. I will pray that someday you will come to know the joy of receiving the Eucharist.
@Spacecoastz John 6???
Thank you. As an old-school, orthodox/confessional Lutheran pastor, I really appreciate that you explained the Lutheran understanding and belief better than most Lutherans can!
EUCHARIST: THE BIBLICAL LANGUAGE OF MIRACLE
The reason why we are Christians is that we follow the teachings of Christ, and we recognized that Jesus Christ is the Bread of Life that came down from heaven. We are part of God’s New Covenant, and in fact, we can only see the words “New Covenant” in the Eucharistic meal. This is the primary reason why Eucharist is the center of worship of the Early Christians and the Catholic Church as the continuation of the Kingdom of God here on earth. However, a lot of non-Catholics and anti-Catholics claim that we, Catholics, are taking the word of God out of context for 1500 years. And through this presentation, we can see why “Biblical” Christians miss the plain language found in the Bible that united all Christians for 1500 years until the Reformation tried to break that unity.
Every time we are discussing with a Protestant, we are doing our best to explain Eucharist as a miracle that even the species of the bread and wine remain, Jesus Christ is really present. I always hear the complaints that we are just deceiving ourselves and that we are worshipping a piece of bread. Because of this, we have to explain it to our brothers and sisters in Christ through the guidance of the Holy Spirit, so that we can be united once again.
In order for us to clearly see the Last Supper as a miracle, we have to compare it to other accounts of miracles. Let’s compare it to the accounts of the multiplication of the bread and the fish because this event took place during the Passover when His followers increased. The account of feeding the 5000 men is present not just in John 6:1-15, but this can also be found in Matthew 14:13-21, Mark 6:30-44, and Luke 9:10-17. Jesus Christ also fed 4000 people found in Matthew 15:32-39 and Mark 8:1-10. As we can see, Jesus Christ is preparing us for the miracle of the miracles that took place on the Holy Thursday. By the way, there are also some people who do not believe that Jesus Christ multiplied the bread and the fish. So, we should also ask ourselves. How do we know that these accounts were real miracles?
If we will look deeply at the passages that I cited, we can see a biblical pattern that is present in all the passages. Personally speaking, I believe that one of the key phrases is found in John 6:11 that are commonly ignored even by Catholics, including me. Here is what it says.
John 6:11
11 Jesus then took the loaves, and when he had given thanks, he distributed them to those who were seated; so also the fish, as much as they wanted.
What does this verse mean? We will break it down into three. The first part was when Jesus Christ took the loaves because the loaves would suddenly experience the miracle later. Then, the second part was when Jesus Christ gave thanks and He blessed and consecrated it. Lastly, the third part was the miracle. He distributed the loaves to the people seating. Remember, the number of loaves before He took it was still 5 and after He blessed it and distributed it, it’s more than the people seating around Him. And He didn’t just do it using the loaves. He also used the fish and He performed the same three actions. Think about this. This language is not just present here as I repeat myself. You can look at all other verses and you will see the beauty of the miracle. If the Protestants will hear you saying this, then we should expect them to say “AMEN…I agree…Praise the Lord”. The problem for them is that there are also other passages where we can see the same actions. These passages include Matthew 26:26-29, Mark 14:22-25, Luke 22:14-23, and 1 Corinthians 11:23-26. Let me just quote the same phrase using the Gospel according to St. Matthew.
Matthew 26:26
26 Now as they were eating,[a] Jesus took bread, and blessed, and broke it, and gave it to the disciples and said, “Take, eat; this is my body.”
OK, here comes the exciting part. Let us now understand the words of Jesus Christ in context. We will now break it down into three. The first part was when Jesus Christ took the bread and He was preparing everyone for the miracle. Then, the second part was when Jesus Christ gave thanks and He blessed and consecrated it. Lastly, the third part was when the miracle took place. What happened after He blessed it? He broke it, gave it to the disciples and He said, “…this is My Body”. He didn’t stop from there. That was not the only thing that he did. He also took the cup. He gave thanks and He consecrated the wine. Then He said, “…this is the Blood of the New Covenant”.
Matthew 26:27
27 And he took a cup, and when he had given thanks he gave it to them, saying, “Drink of it, all of you; 28 for this is my blood of the[b] covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.
If we will present this and other Eucharistic Supper passages to our Protestant brothers and sisters, will we be able to hear the words “AMEN…I agree…Praise the Lord”? Brothers and sisters, what we are simply seeing is the clear language that was understood by the Christians from 1st Century AD up to now. Our Lord is so powerful that when He said it is His Body and it is His Blood while applying this biblical language of miracle, nature obeys Him. When God said “Let there be light”, there was light (Genesis 1:3). When Jesus said “This is My Body”, and “This is the Blood of the New Covenant”, who are we to reject that it’s really Christ’s Body and Blood? We are Christians, and as Christians, we are to accept EVERY part of the Gospel of Christ. To both non-Catholics and anti-Catholics, we can offer them two options.
a. If Jesus Christ is inconsistent with what He says, then the Catholic Church is guilty of idolatry and superstition.
b. If Jesus Christ is consistent with what He says, then the people who are separated from the Catholic Church are lacking the key of the gospel that unlocks God’s greatest mystery of love.
I love you brother and am praying for you.
I can remember as a young Roman Catholic hearing the 2nd chapter of Acts being read in catechism. To a young imaginative boy it was a electrifying tale that offered great hope of experiencing it. Tongues of flame over the head, speaking in tongues, who would not want to see that happen. I even went several times to the back of St. Anthony church during recess, to read the 2nd chapter of Acts again in the days before the sacrament of Confirmation. The long, dry ceremony in Latin was a great disappointment to me. I even asked a nun afterwards why nothing took place similar to the account of the book of Acts. I do not remember her answer but do remember she sidestepped my question. I can honestly say I was agnostic from that point on because what was taught by the Catholic Church regarding Confirmation did not line up with scripture. I felt very close to God at that age but that closeness fell away due to the disappointment of not receiving the Holy Ghost. Some 25 years later I received the baptism of the Holy Ghost and spoke in tongues. It was a powerful and emotionally moving experience. The trouble is, the traditions of men, in most all denominational Christianity, makes the word of God to no effect.
Mark 7:13 KJVS
[13] Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.
Our Lord was talking about the Pharisees of his day, but I think it applies to many of today's Christian churches.
The format followed by most churches of today does not follow that of the early church.
1 Corinthians 14:26-28 KJVS
[26] How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying. [27] If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret. [28] But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.
Even in the churches that are charismatic you do not see the above wide participation of the members. The Spirit of truth is intentionally bridled to protect denominational doctrines. Mainly the doctrine of a eternal hell which has garnered enormous amounts of wealth over the ages for the various Christian denominations.
@Lit for the Lord come on man ...do some serious digging and research
God bless your work, Brother!
May God grant you many years
The teaching and practice that Jesus's presence is upon and through the bread and wine at community conveys error, in that each believer who comes to the table to partake in bread and wine already have the presence of Christ in them by virtue of the Holy Spirit, and because of that constant presence in the believer, the believer carries with him or her all the grace Christ wishes to bestow upon believers. Insisting that Christ's presence is upon the bread and wine and can be received by the believe through eating the bread and drinking the wine, is a distortion of the teaching of the true indwelling of the Holy Spirit of Christ in every believer, everyone who walks in faith in Christ's redemptive and sanctifying work on the believer's behalf.
False.
New Testament replete with narratives explicitly detailing the pouring of the Spirit onto followers. Also replete with the OMNIPOTENCE AND OMNISCIENCE of Christ, as the Spirit, who states that the bread and wine are HIS body and blood, with no conditions attached.
The error made is by Protestants who superimpose their finite human thinking onto the mystery, one of MANY, thereby distorting the scriptural directive.
Luther accepted the REAL presence, so what EXACTLY is the source of this point of diversion by Protestants.
“Do not work for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.””
John 6:27 NASB1995
If the Lord of the universe, creator of all things, sustainer of life and author of life is in the Eucharist,.... How could that be a non essential doctrine?
The question of the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist is debated, it is secondary as Christian theologians have taken different approaches in explicating the doctrine (e.g. transubstantiation, illocial presence, mystery, etc.), but there are still profound implications. The dialogues are to be carried out in the spirit of humility, gentleness and respect. The maxim applies: “In essentials unity; in nonessentials, liberty; and in all things, charity.”
Check out the following podcast> www.equip.org/unplugged/the-mystery-of-the-eucharist-with-nathan-jacobs/
If it is consecrated by an Apostolic priest then the Presence is real and the doctrine essential... What Protestants eat is that which is figurative, and therefore non-essential.
This quotation you made is of human origin , therefore in error.
Christ directly states “ THIS is my body, THIS is my blood” with no conditional statements afterwards.
The idea that this is a secondary matter is a false invention of human origin, therefore, defective. Christ’s statements are of divine origin, PERIOD.@@BibleAnswerMan
Most people have to know the mystery. I praise Father God that I am one of these people. I’m satisfied not to know the mysteries that He has not revealed to me. I’m ok with that. And you know what He has revealed some His mysteries to me and that’s probably why. I have lots of work to do for Him. He can fill me in when I meet Him. “Indigenous Potliquor”.
Hope your well Hank. God bless you.