Just to avoid confusion: Using the terms used by Marozzo 1536, the pole arm simulator we used is a "spiedo" - it has that very long blade and the hocks, and you can use it for slicing and hacking. We had to avoid that out of safety reasons, and count thrusts and drawn/ pushed cuts only, so we applied the rules of a "partesana", which is also what you see on the card. In modern terms it would be called a spear I guess. We had partesana-simulators last year in the tournament. They were made of bamboo and rubber --> super safe but too wobbly. Often neither attacker nor the person hit would feel any impact at all and the referees hardly saw the hits too. So this year it was wood with plastic tips. Seems to work much better while being a good compromise on safety.
When I look at items in museums, I don't think the distinction between spiedo and partisan is that clear, and they are labelled as a partisan (although the Wallace collection does list a few Spetum = Spiedo that look out of Marozzo images). I also understand that the Bolognese partisan is supposed to have hooks at the base for catching on the draw, compared to others that have the side hooks to catch on the push, at which point they are an effective spiedo. So that adds to the confusions in classifying these polearm from a morphological perspective. Classifying them based on their use makes more sense to me in HEMA, so they are a partisan if you use them in connection to a partisan system. At least that's how I think about it.
@@FiliiMartis There is a lot of confusion when it comes to the designation of pole arms, especially with the modern translations into German and English and the designations in museums. It seems to me that something changed or was switched at some time, I kinda suspect the 19th century... But who knows. Anyways: We decided to stick to the designations and images found in Marozzo, and there the image of the partesana clearly shows no hocks and it is used for thrusting only, while the spiedo clearly has them and is used for cutting too. Marozzo also talks about them in the section about the Spadone/ Spada da due mani (e.g. Cap. 177, rule 3). So, summed up it seems he was consistent with that distinction.
I didn't expect to see a Pole Arms section. For safety reasons, I assumed a bill or a partisan would be too dangerous to use in free sparring or in tournament conditions. I see you guys showed restraint at times and used synthetics, so not bad as a compromise. I saw that Jay Maxwell was looking at the partisan more and more, and I didn't get why. I remember Tempus Fugitives shop in the UK (now defunct) selling a beautiful sharp partisan, and man that thing looked incredible. I assume that a steel trainer to be used in a prized tournament (i.e. incentive to hit hard) is still out of the question. But this is the first time I see a partisan fight, and I can only imagine an in-period fight with the real deal (those long blades looks frighteningly awesome). I wanted to stick to learning side-sword (and a bit of rapier). I decided to get an Italian style feder to also study some Bolognese longsword, some spadone, but stop at that. Now I think I need to add the partisan to the list of weapons to study. 😏
It works quite well until now - it's always super fun to play your pole arm in this tournament. 😄I think, adding pole arms to your training does actually not require that much commitment - you can learn the basics in no time. This is one of many reasons why they probably were used so much. You can give them to literally anybody and he will be able to do considerable damage without much knowledge or training. Also, it is different enough from swords and its relatives, so it won't confuse you or mess with your stance if you focus on a specific style ecc. Training sidesword, rapier, longsword and spadone at the same time sounds much more difficult from that perspective 🤯
Just to avoid confusion: Using the terms used by Marozzo 1536, the pole arm simulator we used is a "spiedo" - it has that very long blade and the hocks, and you can use it for slicing and hacking. We had to avoid that out of safety reasons, and count thrusts and drawn/ pushed cuts only, so we applied the rules of a "partesana", which is also what you see on the card. In modern terms it would be called a spear I guess. We had partesana-simulators last year in the tournament. They were made of bamboo and rubber --> super safe but too wobbly. Often neither attacker nor the person hit would feel any impact at all and the referees hardly saw the hits too. So this year it was wood with plastic tips. Seems to work much better while being a good compromise on safety.
When I look at items in museums, I don't think the distinction between spiedo and partisan is that clear, and they are labelled as a partisan (although the Wallace collection does list a few Spetum = Spiedo that look out of Marozzo images). I also understand that the Bolognese partisan is supposed to have hooks at the base for catching on the draw, compared to others that have the side hooks to catch on the push, at which point they are an effective spiedo. So that adds to the confusions in classifying these polearm from a morphological perspective. Classifying them based on their use makes more sense to me in HEMA, so they are a partisan if you use them in connection to a partisan system. At least that's how I think about it.
@@FiliiMartis There is a lot of confusion when it comes to the designation of pole arms, especially with the modern translations into German and English and the designations in museums. It seems to me that something changed or was switched at some time, I kinda suspect the 19th century... But who knows. Anyways: We decided to stick to the designations and images found in Marozzo, and there the image of the partesana clearly shows no hocks and it is used for thrusting only, while the spiedo clearly has them and is used for cutting too. Marozzo also talks about them in the section about the Spadone/ Spada da due mani (e.g. Cap. 177, rule 3). So, summed up it seems he was consistent with that distinction.
Great)) it would be interesting to see different styles, for example fencing with a Japanese master
I didn't expect to see a Pole Arms section. For safety reasons, I assumed a bill or a partisan would be too dangerous to use in free sparring or in tournament conditions. I see you guys showed restraint at times and used synthetics, so not bad as a compromise. I saw that Jay Maxwell was looking at the partisan more and more, and I didn't get why. I remember Tempus Fugitives shop in the UK (now defunct) selling a beautiful sharp partisan, and man that thing looked incredible. I assume that a steel trainer to be used in a prized tournament (i.e. incentive to hit hard) is still out of the question. But this is the first time I see a partisan fight, and I can only imagine an in-period fight with the real deal (those long blades looks frighteningly awesome). I wanted to stick to learning side-sword (and a bit of rapier). I decided to get an Italian style feder to also study some Bolognese longsword, some spadone, but stop at that. Now I think I need to add the partisan to the list of weapons to study. 😏
It works quite well until now - it's always super fun to play your pole arm in this tournament. 😄I think, adding pole arms to your training does actually not require that much commitment - you can learn the basics in no time. This is one of many reasons why they probably were used so much. You can give them to literally anybody and he will be able to do considerable damage without much knowledge or training. Also, it is different enough from swords and its relatives, so it won't confuse you or mess with your stance if you focus on a specific style ecc. Training sidesword, rapier, longsword and spadone at the same time sounds much more difficult from that perspective 🤯