Yeah... this. If you accept the wager, you should be on the hook for paying the win. Letting someone gamble and lose and only when they win big swooping in with the "haha" Simpsons response is not ok.
As well as all legal fees and should have to put giant posters all around the casino saying " We tried to scam this person.". Bet they really quickly just pay out what they should
Treble damages - Certain statutes require that after the jury has determined the amount of the plaintiff's actual damages, the court must award three times that amount
The very, very slight reasoning I could see behind this claim is that if this was the very first time she'd ever produced an ID for the casino, it could *potentially* be reasonable that this was the first time she'd been flagged since the time she was ejected. And that's about all the benefit I can give the devil on that one. The obvious counter being "Did they ask for her ID when they ejected her?" Also, as Steve mentions, "Did they tell her she was BANNED FOREVER?" All in all, it's completely ridiculous. You'd think they'd not do this just to avoid the negative PR.
@@ohar7237 I'd presume they'd have to check her ID when exchanging her money for chips upon arrival and then any small winnings she made at the end of the night.
Yes. I believe it's called estopple. When you waive a right you don't get it back just because it's convenient. The casino has a right to ban anyone from their premises for any reason for any length of time but they cannot say that because someone was banned 9 years ago, who was subsequently allowed on the property multiple times over a course of years they when it's convenient for them they can just assert that she was banned.
The casino knows EXACTLY who is on their property at all times. They've been fully aware that this woman has been to their casino weekly for years. PAY UP!
You are 100% correct. They know EXACTLY who is in their casino. I had hit a decent jackpot in a casino in Las Vegas once. 5-6 years later, I hit another jackpot at the same casino. I mentioned to the attendant that I had hit a big jackpot 5-6 years earlier. He said, "yes, we know who you are". I did get paid though.
This is not literally true. Or at least it's not in Las Vegas. There's enough weird in and out behavior at a casino, that they don't have a list being actively updated about who is an isn't in the building right this moment. They also don't have enough human eyes to track everyone, they're focused on people they think might be disruptive or dangerous (drunk people, young people, emotional people) BUT there is a lot of infrastructure for finding and tracking folks who have been trespassed from the establishment. It is possible that someone could play low stakes games for awhile and not end up on anyone's radar. But if she ever used her ID to claim any winnings, this should have been found. If she was there as regularly as this video implies (most weeks) then there is no realistic way she wasn't using a player card. Once you're using a player card they do legitimately no exactly where you are swiping it at all times.
@@RipliWitani Yes, they would, seeing as she has a casino loyalty card, know exactly when she visited, and exactly how much she spent. Almost no casino works on cash, they all work on cards now, because that means they know you will overspend, and the only thing with chips and tokens are the roulette tables, which are still holding out, though there is also being made digital. They know exactly how much she has spent since then, and also probably also have all the video of the intervening time as well stored on some sort of system "just in case". One casino about to lose their money, and a whole lot of reputation as well, which is the bigger hit, as the only thing they have to get people in is that they are not crooked, because it is rare to only have one casino in any area.
That may be so in her jurisdiction; but if the GCB in Nevada tells a licensee to do something, and they don't..........they can (and most likely will) lose their multi million dollar valued gaming license!
Absolutely. My friend was a card counter and would win enough at black jack that he gradually got put on the black lists at casinos. He was put the list at one of the national chains. Years later that chain buys a local casino. He goes there about a month after the purchase and he is walked out within 20 minutes.
Yeah if they believed she was trepass why didn't they do anything until she won. Walmart once thought they had one guy who turned out to be someone else in a trespassing case causing the idiot cop who took them at their word and didn't bother to look at ID before arresting the guy. Last I heard he was suing them over it
If she was banned for cheating, you bet your ass they would have caught her and thrown her out 5 minutes after she walked in. This is so obvious what is happening idk why the casino would even allow it to go to court. If I was the jury I would award her 1 million and lawyers fees just to keep this casino from continuing to pull these ridiculous stunts.
It’s weird that they would fight this one. Seems like the negative press will far outweigh $127k. That’s a drop in the bucket for a casino. This ain’t some mom and pop operation we’re talking about
That sounds about right, plus I don't know how they explain somebody being allegedly permanently trespassed being allowed to gamble openly for years when they magically discover the ban right after winning a 6 figure jackpot. Just the failure of the casino to enforce their rights for so many years over a single incident where there isn't even anybody complaining right after she wins that kind of money is probably not something that jurors are going to be OK with.
8 years of letting her gamble probably represent some sort of forfeiture of their right to claim she's there without their permission. They seemed to figure it out pretty quickly when she won, they didn't ever run her license or check up on who she was for that many years? A good chunk of the population would have forgotten about that incident entirely over that many years.
@@SeanBZA I'll bet (pun intended) that if you take that money and leave immediately, and then do that every time, they'll ban you. "Winnings" are only allowed in order to take the money back.
If they did not escort her out for trespassing when she was losing, they cannot say she is trespassing when she wins. And asking family members for money is NOT panhandling, no matter what a casino wants to say.
@@TheBoogerJames...Absolutely right ... Asking other people for money in a casino is NOT protected under the Constitution. Also, all we have is her claim that it was her cousin she asked money from. I've seen people get arrested at my local casino for being there after they were trespassed of if they put themselves on the exclusion list.
@@DaveBigDawg Except it won’t get to trial for five years, minimum. And then collecting will take another five, minimum. People are corporate serfs who are deluded when thinking they’re free.
If she was repeatedly trespassing there for 8 years, totally undetected, then what else is their security missing? It would make more sense to pay up than to functionally argue that their security is incompetent.
@@timdowney6721 I don't know how long it will take to get to trial. But once there is a judgment I think payment will be quick as casino does not want some lawyer seizing their assets. If casino wants to appeal judgment they will probably have to put up a bond.
I agree that there should be punitive damages. It's cases like this, where the offending party is clearly just doing this to screw over the other person, where you want to make it clear that if you do this, you will have serious consequences. If they just force them to pay the winning amount, there's basically not much incentive. Even if they have to pay legal fees... that's still worth it for these people to keep acting like this because a lot of victims wont have the means to take legal action and will just accept that they got screwed over.
I highly doubt the cousin thing is true , I see those beggars around the casino all the time. She was almost for sure booted , and has an addiction to gambling, she was told of her bar, listen to the story borrowing money off of friends, she clearly has an issue , she had almost for sure been panhandling, I don’t believe her one bit. She just kept showing up , and no one carded her , it’s not on the casino to find every trespassers on their property. She admits to borrowing, seems like a beggar to me.lets see if she has been using and getting points in her rewards card.? That will all be documented. If she has been using her rewards card in her name and has been given rewards, then yes money hers plus a little something, but if she hasn’t received any comp over the last several years , then press charges against her.
@@Womenandwine Everything you're talking about is a red herring. And yes it's absolutely up to casino to only allow eligible people inside, and not deny jackpots to people using valid USD currency risking their money.
@@Womenandwine Even if all this is true and she was indeed trespassing, what does that have to do with whether they have to pay her or not? It's a fact that they let her play. And while I'm not a lawyer, it seems to me that if a casino lets you play then they have to pay you when you win. Sure, maybe they saw she was trespassing AFTER she won, which means they can boot her out at that point. Maybe they can press criminal charges, or whatever. It doesnt change anything to do with whether they should pay her after she was allowed to play that game.
@@HarumiAida I don't. The casino could argue they had no idea who she was, and was not aware she was trespassing at the time the bet was placed. The questions go much deeper than this, but simply accepting her bet does NOT nullify her trespassing if they did not know who she was. For the record, I'm DEFINITELY on her side, and believe they should pay her the jackpot, plus a lot more.
I feel like saying they can declare her trespassing after a bet but not stop her from collecting the winnings seems like the fair outcome. Not legal advice, but if they want to stop her mid bet, they should either refund her, or if she got winning give them to her.
@@BryanM61 I just don't understand how they can justify the idea that they had no idea who she was.. since she was actively using a players card. They definitely knew who she was.
@@randyisaksson3301 Did they stop her from giving them money and tell her to leave? No, they took her money and only when they lost did they claim she was trespassing... What's to stop casinos from making this claim about everyone who wins?
@@randyisaksson3301 When the claim that you are trespassed only comes up after you win it's rather suspicious especially when they are regulars for several years.
If the casino can take her losses, it’s only fair they pay her wins. She wasn’t stopped, didn’t enter covertly, and the integrity of the game isn’t in question. The casino has motive to passively allow known trespassers. Since they can take her money, while knowing they don’t have to pay if she wins.
I recently had someone trespassed and the deputy filled out a written trespass warning so they had a record of it. He explained that most law enforcement won't arrest someone for trespsss unless the trespass had been documented. Even though there in no law backing the written warning it's how they confirm a trespass in court.
@@terryjohnson3479 This is a good point. Casinos are tightly regulated. If there is a provision saying they don't have to pay out to trespassers in the regulations, there *must* be paperwork of some kind. If she was never served with formal trespassing paperwork, then the casino doesn't have much of a leg to stand on, again, assuming they are allowed by regulation to deny payouts to tresspassers.
@@terryjohnson3479 You should watch more 1a and 2a audits. Tresspass is a procedure. It must be declared and documented, it must be INFORMED and NOTICE given. If the eyes were crossed and the tees dotted, fine. If not, there is NO trespass FORMALLY and therefore just an order to get lost. Once they ALLOW her in, there is no more trespass.
@@loginregional Even if she was trespassed and she was issued the casino loyalty card or used the loyalty card and was not escorted out of the building, that nullifies the trespass. As Steve said, they cannot trespass her and take her money while she was losing and then refuse the pay. Either she was trespassed or not, if she was, they shouldn't have let her into casino again.
Why would anyone go to a casino knowing these stories?
7 місяців тому+24
A hundred million Americans believe in the magical thinking of getting rich through lottery long-shots that have an expectation less than 0. Casinos seem more immediate.
I used to buy scratch off tickets to reward the teenage appointment setters in a phone room I managed. There were a few small winners and then a young man working to make money for college hit for 10K ( in 1981 dollars). He called his dad to come get the ticket to be safe and kept working. He did have a nice car when he left for college.
If she had won anything in the time between the 2015 event and this the judge should just say 'well, you paid her for these smaller wins... pay her for this one'.
If she won anything over 1200 I would agree anything less than jackpot would not have required an id. Jackpots require two copies of identification. If she is a banned/ excluded player, the casino is going to have record of it. Cheating is not remotely the most common type of easy to get banned. Ticket stealing and self bans are the most reasons for a player to be banned.
@@markquintonii If a banned player, a card cheat of some kind, walks in they would have them identified and removed within a very few minutes. She was supposedly trespassed, so they have the tech to identify her, and block her from playing, but because she isn't winning often they let her play so they can take her money. This isn't about trespass, or ID, this is about them refusing to pay out.
When I was underage once,I played the slots on a trip. No one said anything until I tried to cash out. Amazing, how they didn’t care when they were taking my money, but cared once it came time to give me money.
I was underage playing slots once and hit a jackpot just as the security guard came up to me. He asked for id and I told him I was underage. I took a big handful of quarters that came out of the machine and went to hand them to him. He told me "Go ahead and keep them just don't come back until you're 21.
exactly what I was thinking. If she was truly trespassed there should be a police record of the official trespassed. We all know it wasnt an official one or a permeant one. They just saw she won and are trying any reason possible to not pay her.
Technically if you are in a location without the permission of the owner, you are trespassing, you don’t need all the formalities of having the police called. Just being told you are not allowed to return is enough. That said it really depends on whether she was told that by casino when she was kicked out. If they just told her to leave that’s not saying she doesn’t have permission to come back. it really depends on the casinos policies / agreements with its patrons and Michigan’s gambling laws after that point.
@@NickSteffen no its quite literally not enough legally speaking. With exception or only if other laws have been broken cops wont arrest you for trespassing unless you have been formally warned prior. They will write a report, and tell you if you return you will then be arrested. Just telling someone to leave and not formally trespassing them you cant then have them arrested for trespassing if they show up again. Other wise it would be abused to just arrest anyone and get them charged with a crime. At least in the US which is where this happened so that is all that matters. There polices etc dont really matter to much. The fact they continued to take her money for years after shows she clearly wasnt still under a trespass warning any longer. They have no leg to stand on and just hoped she wouldnt sue when they denied her the winnings.
7:30 I used to work in Security and Surveillance at a local Indiana Casino. If we trespassed somebody for Panhandling, they would be detained, sat in an interview room, given a form to sign, and had a photo taken of them. They would be told how long they were banned for. And, we would log the video & audio of the interview room as evidence.
OK, good. That's the right way to do it. But, Indiana isn't Michigan, and the laws in Michigan are different- Verbal notice is sufficient. I'm also thinking that the mangers at this casino are confusing or conflating the laws, policies, and procedures at other MGM properties, and could be on the wrong side of Michigan law. I think she'll eventually win.
A long time ago on my 24th birthday, I stayed at a casino in Atlantic City. During the afternoon, I spent about 10 minutes at a slot machine and a security guard came out of seemingly nowhere and tapped me on the shoulder. He called me by my full name and said "happy birthday, and enjoy your stay," then handed me a pack of playing cards. I never had a player's card so there was no way the machine identified me. They absolutely know who is there and where they are at all times.
@@curtmeister24 Yup, and that's all coming here. I've played around with an ESP32 AI Cam module and for a $10 device, it does facial recognition pretty well. The Casino cams are definitely significantly more advanced and would have no issue spotting anyone wherever they are.
There is a reason why they use scanners to check IDs at casinos. They 100% keep track of every single person that walks in the door, regardless if the person signs up for the loyalty card or not.
@@ShaggyRogers1 Yeah, there is one near my sister that we go to when I visit. The machines don't take money anymore. You HAVE to get a card that you put into the machines. You have to give them valid ID, and go through a few things before you can play anything. They knew she was there, they were fine as long as she spent money.
In California, the casinos use face recognition software under the guise of taking your temperature🙄. Everyone that passes through the door is captured. What’s funny is that the temperature readers don’t even give an accurate temperature😂.
Every habitual player I know has a player's card. The card is how the casino keeps track of what type of player you are using a tier point system, they give you gifts and comps based on points earned and level of tier to entice you to be loyal and play at that casino. When you use that card, the casino knows you're there.
There was similar case of man that was arrested for trespassing in a Walmart. The security guard had confused him with another man. But once they found out the mistake instead of just dropping the trespass charges they looked to see if he had ever been trespassed from Walmart before and it turned out he was trespassed from Walmart about 5 years before. But for the past 4 years he had been going to Walmart and shopping there. The guy ended up wining his case against Walmart and the police.
IF you were asked to leave ONE time, that's not a trespass according to the courts. There needs to be a documented trespass served to her to be valid. Also, even if that HAD happened (which it did not), the courts have ruled that the trespass is invalidated if the business then chooses to do commerce with the person. Just another excuse to steal from people.
Did she have a casino member comp card? If she did and was using it over the years, then she wasn't trespassing. Most casinos you have to replace or update the card yearly.
@Rastaferrari829 your point? Are you implying/inferring she shouldn't go after justice anyway to hold them accountable? "Oh no! Some random keyboard warrior posting on YT said businesses hardly ever face criminal charges! I'll just go beat up grass then." smh
Heck maybe they do this to as many people as possible, trespassing people for a day, (since she wasn't actually panhandling). Just so that it reduces the number of jackpots they have to pay out. 😂
They know everyone that goes in and out of the casino by name. They use some of the most advanced facial recognition software on the planet across all of the MGM properties. I’m sure they have everyone input in their system who they don’t want in there playing, e.g. those that are trespasse, cheats, card counters, etc…. They know!!
Casinos are some of the worst crocks around. I remember hearing a story where a 20 year employee with perfect attendance didnt show up one morning. Turns out he was at the hospital. The casino said since he didnt call to inform them that he would be absent after having a massive *heart attack* that morning he was effectively terminated as of the beginning of his shift and therefore his hospital bills were not covered by their health plan.
$127,000 winnings, plus $1,000,000 compensation for stress and anxiety caused by MGM's attempts to fraudulently rip her off.. That would be a fair settlement.
Non-economic damages like stress and anxiety (i.e., no physical injury) are typically capped. No way in Michigan she gets more than $500k over the $127k she won.
I believe the term is “estoppel.” Because the casino failed to enforce their ban against her for 8 years the ban is null and void. They can’t decide to let her slide for 8 years until she wins a big EDIT: I wrote this before Steve got to it. I’m pleased to remember the business law course I took 30 years ago
...in your opinion, and you are not involved. Are you planning on moving there in hopes of being selected as a juror on this case, should it go to court, so you can force your opinion on the victim? Com'on, David. You can do better.
The fact that she was told when asked how long was she kicked out for, and was told a day or two, means it wasn't a permanent ban, and thus they are just being crooks, and I hope they lose all their business if they don't make this right.
Even without that, the fact that they hadn't taken any steps to enforce a ban in all those years is something. Most businesses won't enforce a permanent ban just because of how much of a hassle that can be, especially given that if they haven't seen the person in a year or two, they may not be recognizable and there may not be any witnesses available if they need a witness to testify to the records in case of further issues.
This reminds me of the story about Norm McDonald, a notorious gambling addict. On one occasion he won $20k, went to the beach and tossed it into the ocean, realizing the casino would just take it all back eventually anyway.
This has to be big news and MGM is going to lose business because of this. I think the one highlight her attorney should stress is if she'd lost 127k, they wouldn't refuse her money.
@@B_Bodziakthat's not a highlight. If you're not allowed in, but enter anyways and lose money, you did wrong and can't get a refund. But if you're still banned and go in anyways why would they pay you out on a jackpot ?
I work for a casino as a security officer. Panhandling is a 24-hour temporary trespass. then I usually a 30-day trespass, then a 90-day, then a permanent trespass. They do not go directly to permanent.
All she has to do show that rule to the jury. Put a security guard on the stand and ask them how a panhandling trespass is applied. And even if it was a permanent ban the Casino revoked it when they kept letting her in and taking her money.
The’er too addicted & to superstitious to do that. I’ve seen news stories about a bomb being put in a casino and authorities having to literally physically force people to stop playing the slots & leave. I’m not saying it wouldn’t work but I am saying it won’t happen.
@@CubeInspector I'm wondering how many other casinos are in the area. There are a few small casinos around here that are more or less just card rooms, there's only a couple tribal casinos within any sort of reasonable distance of me. It could potentially lead to people switching casinos, but gamblers can be very, very picky about which casinos are lucky and which ones aren't.
He mentions at least one other Casino in the story . They should run a full page ad about this story claiming you won't need a lawyer to get your winnings from us!
So for 9 years, while she was losing money, the Casino Corporations didn't seem to mind her trespassing as long as she spent her money there, but now they have a problem...??
I don't care if she was trespassing. Even if she was trespassing all the casino can say "You've been trespassed, take your winnings and leave", but they can't not pay her what she's won. If she's been criminally trespassed they can call the cops and have her arrested, but they'd STILL have to pay her her winnings.
@@heazilla If she had been using a players card, then they knew she was there and they were probably giving her comps (plus they were probably mailing her offers to play there). At best, one hand didn't know what the other hand was doing. But you're right. The two are unrelated. If they accepted her bet, they have to pay even if she was legally trespassing. The casino doesn't get to freeroll off a trespasser. Pay her and have her arrested if they must. But they have to pay.
@@heazillaIm a lawyer and would argue that are not unrelated. The dealer can be considered an agent of the casino. It takes an offer and acceptance to create a contract. The dealer acting as an agent of the casino accepted the bet and created a contract with the player. I would also argue, that if they knew she was trespassing all these years while still accpeting her business with no intention on paying out, then they were unjustly enriched and owe her all her spendings back over the years.
@@AJB_313 > The dealer acting as an agent of the casino accepted the bet and created a contract with the player. Make that argument in court and see what happens. I am not going to argue what a theoretical court would do.
This case will get no further than depositions. The allegations and testimony under oath will not go well for MGM. First MGM will offer something stupid like $50k and a permanent free Player’s Card to their casino. The offers will keep climbing until a suitable agreement to the plaintiff is reached.
🙄She probably owns half of the house. Even if she doesn't, she is a legal tenant, and has the right to be there. If a divorce is granted, then there is an explicit acknowledgement that the marriage occurred, and an annulment is impossible. You can only get one or the other - not both.
@@ThereIsNoOtherHandleLikeMine Could a member of the Roman Catholic church not get a civil divorce and an annulment from the church relating to the same failed marriage?
@@Ryansilver-w7z Why would the state of California take a position on a gambling debt in Detroit? You should be familiar with the place. Didn't you die in the MGM Grand in Detroit?
@@GRice999 to boost there economy, California is also responsible for the corrupt Powerball and mega million jackpot, because as long as a winner lives in the state of California, the state of California can read that winter of 30% or so if a winner happens to get $1.3 billion the state of California get $650 million
Usually casinos would love to do that. Since the price is generated from losses by multiple patrons, the prize usually far exceeds the amount any one patron has lost while gambling. A guy talks to a farmer about buying a horse. Says he's going to use it as a prize in a raffle. They agree on a price, and the guy says he'll pick up the horse after the raffle. Few days later the guy comes back. The farmer says he's sorry, but the horse died. The guy says ok, lemme see what I can work out. Later the farmer meets the guy at a bar and asks how the horse raffle situation turned out. The guy says everything is good, and he doesn't need the horse. The winner complained about not receiving the horse he'd won. So he refunded the money for his raffle ticket.
And how is anyone going to know how much that was? Did she write it down every time she visited? I'm not a gambler, but my late aunts used to go to nearby casinos fairly frequently, to play the slots. I'm sure they kept track of whether they were ahead or behind, but I strongly suspect that they didn't write it down anywhere, and that they simply figured it on a per visit basis, not adding it up over years of play. If you've been making money gambling you have to declare it on your tax returns, but there's no requirement to declare your losses (though you can, I believe, deduct them from your winnings); why else would you keep track of your losses?
Most casinos are happy to pay out large winnings, because of the law of averages. 1 person wins a million dollars, the casino lose a million dollars. 1 million people lose 100 dollars, the casino makes 100 million dollars. Large jackpot winners get advertised, because they encourage other people to gamble in the hope of winning. And most people will lose because the odds favor the casino. Most casinos won't kick you out unless they believe you're cheating. And even then, they'll pay your winnings unless they can prove that you were cheating.
Sweet Ill gamble in any casino, when I lose ill commit crime or give abuse ultill I'm tresspassed.... Boom full refund, can't lose If her players card is blocked and it can be proven then she should not of been playing before checking being allowed to play again then yeah its annoying, but if no evidence pf the ban Pay the lady
@@othertoken1349 why would they owe her losses back if she went in there when she was told she's not allowed back ? She collected winnings during those 8 years too that were less than the amount required to provide ID, and how would she ever be able to prove her losses ?
I think her case is strong if she has an MGM rewards card and has been getting rewards points and credits all these years. That means they knew she was playing there and they were welcoming her and rewarding her.
That is the problem, though. The casino can fight this in court for years. They have lawyers sitting around already paid to be there. They can appeal forever, effectively. But the lady only has her lawyer who actually will need to be paid. The entire winnings could be gobbled up by legal fees, not to mention the 50% tax she probably owes on the winnings if she collects. Her only hopes are huge damages, which again, the casino can appeal forever, or a quick settlement of some sort.
I only went to a casino once in my life. I allowed myself a max of $40 because it's all I could spare at the time. I played a bit of video black jack and I walked out with $1,100.
@@nodak81 Last time I was in a casino was because of a business conference in Reno circa 1990. I bought a roll of nickels for the half-hour I had to kill before going to the airport. I walked around putting a nickel in here and there…..basically paying to watch people ruin their lives. 😟
Even if asked to leave and then she returns ~days later and they then take her money (or convert it to chips), my assumption would be the trespass is no longer valid.
I was once a casino pit boss & yes, casinos record everything, cameras everywhere except the bathrooms & they keep records on computer so that every time your name is entered your entire gambling history at that casino comes up. But I have a system for a sure thing playing Black Jack. I’ll sell it to you if you need it.
Sure but if people stop coming because you have a reputation as a cheat then it will cost them millions. There are other casinos in Detroit after all. What if they start running ads about how they actually pay out their winnings unlike some of their competitors.
If they won't pay her because she was trespassing, they need to go back and give her every single dime she lost during the times she was there "trespassing". They can't do this one way.
I think that Detroit MGM is going to regret not paying out the win. When this case hits the jury, the jury is likely to award the plaintiff big damages....
They’d settle before it came to that. I don’t understand why the Casino is doing this over $127k. It seems more trouble than it’s worth. The casino must earn that back in a matter of . . . what? . . . hours?
If I was on that jury, I’d be putting myself in her seat at that table, thinking wow! I finally got lucky and won! Then casino says no payout? Heck no! I would recommend the casino have to pay WAY more for trying to cheat her out of that win. And I have sat at Blackjack table at that casino. Maybe it’s time to gamble elsewhere!
Well years ago in the 90s I had a problem with gambling and I ask the attendant to help me stop so they took me to a room and I signed some paperwork banning me from gambling in the state and still to this day they send me a copy reminding me also I’m not allowed to enter any of their casinos in other states if I do it’s called trespassing and I would go to jail the money if I won would go to a charity that I chose o that day but all I’m saying is that I do still receive the letter yearly
If you won't pay for her win because she was trespassing, *you also can't keep the money from her losses.* Either they owe her the prize OR a refund for every penny she lost.
They will take these retired people's life savings and monthly checks, but not payout when one wins. Shameful. They should get shut down for this, or have to pay 10 fold.
Casinos use extensive automated security measures, including facial recognition. There is no possibility they can "remember" everyone who is caught cheating or violating rules and laws. They rely on automation. So, if she was "permanently" trespassed they would know. Obviously they are simply trying to deny the payout.
As far as I'm concerned, if she can't win because she's trespassed, that should also mean she can't lose for the same reason (it is illegal to accept a bet where there's no possible way to win the bet and if she's trespassed, it's not possible to win the bet). She should allow the casino to a) either pay the jackpot, or b) refund the entirety of her losses since the time she was trespassed. Pretty straightforward.
My client was part of a 3 man team who traveled the country a few years ago installing facial recognition systems in casinos. Homeland security required it in every casino to combat money laundering of organized crime. If anyone stepped foot in any casino, someone knew you were there. The right people? I can’t answer that. But the hardware was there along with the software.
I went to a casino once in my life, it was for a job interview. The interview went badly but I had some coins and decided to try a slot.. my first and only time I won a car… the security came to me and asked me to leave or they would sue me. To this day I have no idea what security was talkin about. I assumed the my were cheating, these stories prove I was right. Never been back.
I'm not an attorney. With that said, it appears that the casino didn't act in good faith. Hence, the request for attorney's fees is a legitimate and winnable part of the lawsuit, and punitive damages could also be awarded.
Not likely. Most civil cases don't allow recovery of attorney fees unless you act in bad faith during the course of the lawsuit. If you stonewall the discovery process for example you pay the fees of the other person for the handling of that stonewalling. This cuts both ways, if youre offered a settlement and turn it down and go to trial and get less than the offer you owe attorney fees from the offer refusal. This other dude replying here got "bad faith" right, he just doesn't understand the bad faith is specifically for the course of the litigation not the act itself.
@@CubeInspector Are you serious? If you turn down a settlement and end up winning less than what was offered to you, your lawyer is entitled to his/her portion of the original settlement?
she would probably be also able to make the argument that even if she was tresspassed , the casino has waived their right to assert that tresspass after multiple faliures to enforce the tresspass
So for 9 years, while she was losing dollars, the Casino Corporations didn't seem to mind her trespassing as long as she spent her money there but, now they have a problem...??
i'm 68 and we used to boycott businesses/companies and places that weren't doing right by people but it seems to have gone the way of 8-tracks. it's too bad, it was effective but it was also a time when mega corporations with no honor weren't the norm or so prevelant
They pretty much gave her a membership card to the place, which means they knew she was there and they knew who she was. If this goes before a judge I would pretty much ask for summary judgement
After the first hand the trespassing order is void unless the order was part of a sentence by a judge, to allow her to play but unable to win is unjust enrichment.
She wasn't 'trespassing' while she gambled her money and once she wins she is 'trespassing'. They are going to lose tens of millions in bad press. She sure wasn't trespassing while losing money. Of course they wouldn't trespass her while losing money tacky tacky tacky. All of it.
The Mafia was into honestly-dishonest. The casinos were run clean and friendly, the dirty parts were behind the scenes. Now that the casino IS the business, casino operators are just scum bags to everyone
@youropionmattersnot That depends. If her bills are paid and she's not going into debt because of it. Then it's not really a problem. It's entertainment. You could argue that it's fiscally irresponsible for anyone to gamble. But many would disagree. At least it has a potential upside. Unlike people that spend thousands going to a sporting event or concert, or even just bars/clubs. That's literally money down the drain purely for entertainment with no financial upside.
There’s a “player’s card”, a magnetic or chipped credit sized credit card used to play on machines and given when playing at a table. That card record proves all the times she was there.
If they can deny her the winnings would there also be a case to be made that she should get her losses refunded for the past 8 years? Yes, I'm aware they can't determine what that amount would be. I'm just interested in the legal precedent.
Is there a legal paper preventing her from entering. No. In order to be tresspassed one must be asked to leave. If they don't leave or leave and come back thats trespassing. Law 101.
@@geekmoto1363 I wouldn't even hold that. I would hold even if it is tresspassing they still have to pay up; then she gets prosecuted for tresspassing.
@@joshuahudson2170 walmart has tried something similar and lost, there was a recent case where someone got arrested for tresspass and when the criminal case was dismissed they sued walmart and won, because they accepted his money and did business with him.
This is an easy case either way it goes. You can find records of trespass orders. If MGM never trespassed her, she probably wins. If it turns out MGM did alert authorities and had her formally trespassed, well then the lady was trespassing. Easy case either way
@@RobertLee-wi5kc thats in normal court. most casinos are on tribal jurisdiction which was an umconstitutional created years ago from treaties that violate comstition also known as intermarional agreements, basically foreign countries made efforts to undermine our constitution. basically those serve as means to obstruct justice. casinos are loaded with white collar crime and this jurisdiction helps protect them unfairly.
This is a matter of contract law. By the casino accepting her money while she was gambling essentially creates an implied contract with her to pay her out when she wins. The only way that they would not be liable to pay her out is by NOT allowing her to place her bets. Every time she lost her money then placed a new bet she created a new implied contract with the casino to pay her out when she wins. Also, I’m sure that she has won some amount of money in that casino since the time that she was asked to leave. Even if the casino only paid her out $100, it still shows that their claim of trespassing is invalid because it shows that she has done business with them at some point after being asked to leave but prior to her winning the jackpot. That’s where the estoppel principle can be applied.
I believe gaming boards are like the FAA... its PEER management i believe. They are for regulating the industry but something like this i don't think would be in their purview. Essentially the board is made up of casino insiders. their primary interest being casino interests.The board could never have the power to force financial items on a casino unless its some kind of internally agreed upon principle or bylaw, etc. Courts can force the casino no problem though.
Had she lost 127K, I seriously doubt the casino would have given her the money back and said "oh, we can't take your money. You're trespassing."
Exactly, they should of not taken any money at the beginning, since they did, they have no case
@@catberts6499 they're the _defendant_ though... She's the one who needs to bring the case
Yeah... this. If you accept the wager, you should be on the hook for paying the win. Letting someone gamble and lose and only when they win big swooping in with the "haha" Simpsons response is not ok.
You beat me to it - I was going to respond exactly the same thing.
She should sue them for all the money she lost over the years, since she shouldn't have been allowed to play at all.
If a casino refuses to pay legitimate winnings, the state should force them to pay double the winnings
Double? 10x. They'll stop if they have to pay out millions everytime they pull a stunt like this.
As well as all legal fees and should have to put giant posters all around the casino saying " We tried to scam this person.". Bet they really quickly just pay out what they should
At minimum
Treble damages - Certain statutes require that after the jury has determined the amount of the plaintiff's actual damages, the court must award three times that amount
They should have to pay 100 times the winnings, that’ll get them to stop cheating winners.
8 years of implied consent from the casino seems like this lady is in the right.
Correct
The very, very slight reasoning I could see behind this claim is that if this was the very first time she'd ever produced an ID for the casino, it could *potentially* be reasonable that this was the first time she'd been flagged since the time she was ejected.
And that's about all the benefit I can give the devil on that one. The obvious counter being "Did they ask for her ID when they ejected her?" Also, as Steve mentions, "Did they tell her she was BANNED FOREVER?"
All in all, it's completely ridiculous. You'd think they'd not do this just to avoid the negative PR.
and all settlements voided!
@@ohar7237 I'd presume they'd have to check her ID when exchanging her money for chips upon arrival and then any small winnings she made at the end of the night.
Yes. I believe it's called estopple. When you waive a right you don't get it back just because it's convenient. The casino has a right to ban anyone from their premises for any reason for any length of time but they cannot say that because someone was banned 9 years ago, who was subsequently allowed on the property multiple times over a course of years they when it's convenient for them they can just assert that she was banned.
The casino knows EXACTLY who is on their property at all times. They've been fully aware that this woman has been to their casino weekly for years. PAY UP!
You are 100% correct. They know EXACTLY who is in their casino. I had hit a decent jackpot in a casino in Las Vegas once. 5-6 years later, I hit another jackpot at the same casino. I mentioned to the attendant that I had hit a big jackpot 5-6 years earlier. He said, "yes, we know who you are". I did get paid though.
This is not literally true. Or at least it's not in Las Vegas. There's enough weird in and out behavior at a casino, that they don't have a list being actively updated about who is an isn't in the building right this moment. They also don't have enough human eyes to track everyone, they're focused on people they think might be disruptive or dangerous (drunk people, young people, emotional people)
BUT there is a lot of infrastructure for finding and tracking folks who have been trespassed from the establishment. It is possible that someone could play low stakes games for awhile and not end up on anyone's radar. But if she ever used her ID to claim any winnings, this should have been found. If she was there as regularly as this video implies (most weeks) then there is no realistic way she wasn't using a player card. Once you're using a player card they do legitimately no exactly where you are swiping it at all times.
No they dont, people trespassed sneak in not recognized, I Have seen yhis happen casino doesnt recognize everyone by site@ArtInOrlando
As long as she keeps that players card in the slot machine and give it to the dealer they know exactly how much she lost.
She deserves nothing
Well, if the casino took her money ... then that qualifies her to receive her winnings.
exactly!
Or a refund
@@RipliWitani Yes, they would, seeing as she has a casino loyalty card, know exactly when she visited, and exactly how much she spent. Almost no casino works on cash, they all work on cards now, because that means they know you will overspend, and the only thing with chips and tokens are the roulette tables, which are still holding out, though there is also being made digital. They know exactly how much she has spent since then, and also probably also have all the video of the intervening time as well stored on some sort of system "just in case".
One casino about to lose their money, and a whole lot of reputation as well, which is the bigger hit, as the only thing they have to get people in is that they are not crooked, because it is rare to only have one casino in any area.
Yep, sounds like they grandfathered her back in, if they took her money, that's a nonverbal acceptance
@@SeanBZA Excellent post.
A dishonest Casino? My word! Who would have thought!
I’m shocked! Shocked to find dishonesty in this casino!
Dishonesty is the American way.
And in Detroit no less! A city know for honesty and integrity.
@@PooturdoopNot just the American way. Many humans way, whether they want to admit it or not.
That may be so in her jurisdiction; but if the GCB in Nevada tells a licensee to do something, and they don't..........they can (and most likely will) lose their multi million dollar valued gaming license!
If Wal-Mart asset protection can pick out people that are trespassed on the cameras, the casino has no excuse.
Don''t casinos have the book of banned gamblers? They can figure those folks out so if they really felt she was a problem, she'd be in the book!
Casinos do it too for card counters.
Absolutely. My friend was a card counter and would win enough at black jack that he gradually got put on the black lists at casinos. He was put the list at one of the national chains.
Years later that chain buys a local casino. He goes there about a month after the purchase and he is walked out within 20 minutes.
Yeah if they believed she was trepass why didn't they do anything until she won. Walmart once thought they had one guy who turned out to be someone else in a trespassing case causing the idiot cop who took them at their word and didn't bother to look at ID before arresting the guy. Last I heard he was suing them over it
If she was banned for cheating, you bet your ass they would have caught her and thrown her out 5 minutes after she walked in. This is so obvious what is happening idk why the casino would even allow it to go to court. If I was the jury I would award her 1 million and lawyers fees just to keep this casino from continuing to pull these ridiculous stunts.
127k is a drop in the bucket compared to the money they rake in everyday. I don't trust MGM now.
It’s weird that they would fight this one. Seems like the negative press will far outweigh $127k. That’s a drop in the bucket for a casino. This ain’t some mom and pop operation we’re talking about
MGM Detroit doesn't rake in as much money as other casinos. Detroit isn't known for money.
@@dianekelly4597they’re still owned by MGM and they have more money than god at this point.
The casino isn't going to want this to go to a jury. Juries HATE when someone gets cheated.
That sounds about right, plus I don't know how they explain somebody being allegedly permanently trespassed being allowed to gamble openly for years when they magically discover the ban right after winning a 6 figure jackpot. Just the failure of the casino to enforce their rights for so many years over a single incident where there isn't even anybody complaining right after she wins that kind of money is probably not something that jurors are going to be OK with.
Since the casino is being sued they get to pick whether it’s decided by a jury or judge though. So they can just decide not to have a jury trial.
If you get one casino goer who dreams of hitting it big on that jury….Jackpot!
THE RULING COULD COST THEM MUCH MORE !...
Yep. Put me on that jury and see what happens. The old lady is going to own that casino.
8 years is implied consent to be there
8 years of letting her gamble probably represent some sort of forfeiture of their right to claim she's there without their permission. They seemed to figure it out pretty quickly when she won, they didn't ever run her license or check up on who she was for that many years? A good chunk of the population would have forgotten about that incident entirely over that many years.
She will definitely win the case but she will likely take 10 years to receive anything.
Man, casinos will do ANYTHING to keep from paying winnings. Disgusting.
They are happy to pay small winnings, on the bet that you will spend it again, and then more, at the casino immediately.
@@SeanBZA I'll bet (pun intended) that if you take that money and leave immediately, and then do that every time, they'll ban you. "Winnings" are only allowed in order to take the money back.
@@Serai3 Small amounts they do not care, so long as you win less than the average punter spend they will not worry at all.
The Vegas Strip wasn’t built on people winning.
They're worse than insurance companies ! 🙄😂
Took 8 years to tell her she was trespassing, while she put money into the casino. When they owed _her_ money, it triggered their memory of course.
Choosing to conduct business with a trespassed person on the premises revokes the trespass, because customers are implicitly invited to be there.
If they did not escort her out for trespassing when she was losing, they cannot say she is trespassing when she wins. And asking family members for money is NOT panhandling, no matter what a casino wants to say.
Also panhandling is a 1st amendment protected activity
@@liquidfiretibby Casinos are private businesses. 1st Amendment doesn't apply.
@@TheBoogerJames...Absolutely right ... Asking other people for money in a casino is NOT protected under the Constitution. Also, all we have is her claim that it was her cousin she asked money from. I've seen people get arrested at my local casino for being there after they were trespassed of if they put themselves on the exclusion list.
If you are told to leave, and don't, then you are trespassing. No escort required.
@@ThereIsNoOtherHandleLikeMine Yeah, but she wasn't told to leave. Instead they took her money...
If she wasn't allowed to be there those 8 years then they should give her back all the money she lost over that time.
Exactly
She will win this case though
@@DaveBigDawg
Except it won’t get to trial for five years, minimum. And then collecting will take another five, minimum.
People are corporate serfs who are deluded when thinking they’re free.
If she was repeatedly trespassing there for 8 years, totally undetected, then what else is their security missing? It would make more sense to pay up than to functionally argue that their security is incompetent.
@@timdowney6721 I don't know how long it will take to get to trial. But once there is a judgment I think payment will be quick as casino does not want some lawyer seizing their assets. If casino wants to appeal judgment they will probably have to put up a bond.
Plus the prevailing interest rate for all those years adjusted for inflation. OUCH!
I hope she is awarded $1M in punitive damages plus $127K.
Most would be fine with that.
I agree that there should be punitive damages. It's cases like this, where the offending party is clearly just doing this to screw over the other person, where you want to make it clear that if you do this, you will have serious consequences. If they just force them to pay the winning amount, there's basically not much incentive. Even if they have to pay legal fees... that's still worth it for these people to keep acting like this because a lot of victims wont have the means to take legal action and will just accept that they got screwed over.
I highly doubt the cousin thing is true , I see those beggars around the casino all the time. She was almost for sure booted , and has an addiction to gambling, she was told of her bar, listen to the story borrowing money off of friends, she clearly has an issue , she had almost for sure been panhandling, I don’t believe her one bit. She just kept showing up , and no one carded her , it’s not on the casino to find every trespassers on their property. She admits to borrowing, seems like a beggar to me.lets see if she has been using and getting points in her rewards card.? That will all be documented. If she has been using her rewards card in her name and has been given rewards, then yes money hers plus a little something, but if she hasn’t received any comp over the last several years , then press charges against her.
@@Womenandwine Everything you're talking about is a red herring. And yes it's absolutely up to casino to only allow eligible people inside, and not deny jackpots to people using valid USD currency risking their money.
@@Womenandwine Even if all this is true and she was indeed trespassing, what does that have to do with whether they have to pay her or not? It's a fact that they let her play. And while I'm not a lawyer, it seems to me that if a casino lets you play then they have to pay you when you win. Sure, maybe they saw she was trespassing AFTER she won, which means they can boot her out at that point. Maybe they can press criminal charges, or whatever. It doesnt change anything to do with whether they should pay her after she was allowed to play that game.
The moment the casino allowed her to place a bet is the moment the trespass was nullified.
i agree.
@@HarumiAida I don't. The casino could argue they had no idea who she was, and was not aware she was trespassing at the time the bet was placed. The questions go much deeper than this, but simply accepting her bet does NOT nullify her trespassing if they did not know who she was.
For the record, I'm DEFINITELY on her side, and believe they should pay her the jackpot, plus a lot more.
I feel like saying they can declare her trespassing after a bet but not stop her from collecting the winnings seems like the fair outcome. Not legal advice, but if they want to stop her mid bet, they should either refund her, or if she got winning give them to her.
@@BryanM61 I just don't understand how they can justify the idea that they had no idea who she was.. since she was actively using a players card. They definitely knew who she was.
@@tboshears Yeah? I think this is the first I've heard of a player's card. How do we know this?
The state needs to shut down these casinos who refuse to pay legitimate winnings.
Its NOT really a legitimate WIN if you are illegally on their property though.
@@randyisaksson3301 Yes it is. As soon as they took her money they waved any claim of trespassing.
@@randyisaksson3301 Did they stop her from giving them money and tell her to leave?
No, they took her money and only when they lost did they claim she was trespassing... What's to stop casinos from making this claim about everyone who wins?
@@randyisaksson3301 When the claim that you are trespassed only comes up after you win it's rather suspicious especially when they are regulars for several years.
@@randyisaksson3301 Well then its not a legitimate loss when you lose.
If the casino can take her losses, it’s only fair they pay her wins. She wasn’t stopped, didn’t enter covertly, and the integrity of the game isn’t in question. The casino has motive to passively allow known trespassers. Since they can take her money, while knowing they don’t have to pay if she wins.
I recently had someone trespassed and the deputy filled out a written trespass warning so they had a record of it. He explained that most law enforcement won't arrest someone for trespsss unless the trespass had been documented. Even though there in no law backing the written warning it's how they confirm a trespass in court.
@@terryjohnson3479 indeed considering usually most businesses can't just deny entry to the public without reason
@@terryjohnson3479 This is a good point. Casinos are tightly regulated. If there is a provision saying they don't have to pay out to trespassers in the regulations, there *must* be paperwork of some kind. If she was never served with formal trespassing paperwork, then the casino doesn't have much of a leg to stand on, again, assuming they are allowed by regulation to deny payouts to tresspassers.
@@terryjohnson3479 You should watch more 1a and 2a audits. Tresspass is a procedure. It must be declared and documented, it must be INFORMED and NOTICE given. If the eyes were crossed and the tees dotted, fine. If not, there is NO trespass FORMALLY and therefore just an order to get lost. Once they ALLOW her in, there is no more trespass.
@@loginregional Even if she was trespassed and she was issued the casino loyalty card or used the loyalty card and was not escorted out of the building, that nullifies the trespass. As Steve said, they cannot trespass her and take her money while she was losing and then refuse the pay. Either she was trespassed or not, if she was, they shouldn't have let her into casino again.
She was a customer as she paid and played for years without being told she is tresspassing.
we quit going to Vegas 10 years ago because of the greedy hotels. This is not an isolated incident.
I am from Vegas everyone I know has gotten there money, even if it is a contest. I have won a lost of money and always was paid.
Not to mention the rampant bed bugs. 🤢
This wasn't in Vegas, it was in Detroit.
Why would anyone go to a casino knowing these stories?
A hundred million Americans believe in the magical thinking of getting rich through lottery long-shots that have an expectation less than 0. Casinos seem more immediate.
It’s an addiction that is as bad as drugs and alcohol.
Nothing in my post suggests that I consider the lottery as an alternative. Besides at least the lottery pays out.
@@johnholmes2808 well no one gets addicted to a habit they don't start.
I used to buy scratch off tickets to reward the teenage appointment setters in a phone room I managed. There were a few small winners and then a young man working to make money for college hit for 10K ( in 1981 dollars). He called his dad to come get the ticket to be safe and kept working. He did have a nice car when he left for college.
Pharmaceutical companies....... insurance companies......casinos......biggest unhanged criminals ever.
Politicians top the list
Outside of government….
COAs/HOAs are up there too.
Politicians are at the top of the list
Timeshare companies, biggest fraudsters on the planet.
If she had won anything in the time between the 2015 event and this the judge should just say 'well, you paid her for these smaller wins... pay her for this one'.
My thoughts exactly. Theres gotta be one point where she cashed out at leasr a coup[le bucks durjng thatt time
Precedent set!
most likely for small pay out. They don't ask for ID or personal information but for big pay out they need to check ID i am guessing
If she won anything over 1200 I would agree anything less than jackpot would not have required an id. Jackpots require two copies of identification. If she is a banned/ excluded player, the casino is going to have record of it. Cheating is not remotely the most common type of easy to get banned. Ticket stealing and self bans are the most reasons for a player to be banned.
@@markquintonii If a banned player, a card cheat of some kind, walks in they would have them identified and removed within a very few minutes. She was supposedly trespassed, so they have the tech to identify her, and block her from playing, but because she isn't winning often they let her play so they can take her money.
This isn't about trespass, or ID, this is about them refusing to pay out.
"The gaming board couldn't force the casino to do anything, it's only a advisory committee". We'll there's one thing that needs fixed right away.
An "advisory committee" that also issues gaming licenses!!!! Sounds like MORE than an "advisory committee" to me!!!
@@SchererProductionServices They sound like an advisory committee who accepts money from casinos in the back pocket.
I would award her 10 times more than she is asking for .
8x for the 8 years they took her money !!!
@@magapatriot2943 i like that solution.
Realistically she should be awarded treble....3x
Casinos have been known to not pay out jackpots to under-age gamblers. But “not notice” them as long as they’re losing.
When I was underage once,I played the slots on a trip. No one said anything until I tried to cash out. Amazing, how they didn’t care when they were taking my money, but cared once it came time to give me money.
I'm totally shocked that gambling operations are run by scumbags. It's almost as surprising as finding authoritarian thugs in police uniforms.
I was underage playing slots once and hit a jackpot just as the security guard came up to me. He asked for id and I told him I was underage. I took a big handful of quarters that came out of the machine and went to hand them to him. He told me "Go ahead and keep them just don't come back until you're 21.
in the case of under-age gamblers losing, they asked for it.
It's not legally gambling if you cannot possibly win.
Legally speaking being asked to leave and being formally trespassed are drastically different things.
This is the key. When you are "trespassed", police are called, forms are filled out, and you're escorted out.
exactly what I was thinking. If she was truly trespassed there should be a police record of the official trespassed. We all know it wasnt an official one or a permeant one. They just saw she won and are trying any reason possible to not pay her.
Exactly. If she was not served a trespass notice and escorted off the property, she was not trespassing when she won the jackpot.
Technically if you are in a location without the permission of the owner, you are trespassing, you don’t need all the formalities of having the police called. Just being told you are not allowed to return is enough.
That said it really depends on whether she was told that by casino when she was kicked out. If they just told her to leave that’s not saying she doesn’t have permission to come back.
it really depends on the casinos policies / agreements with its patrons and Michigan’s gambling laws after that point.
@@NickSteffen no its quite literally not enough legally speaking. With exception or only if other laws have been broken cops wont arrest you for trespassing unless you have been formally warned prior. They will write a report, and tell you if you return you will then be arrested. Just telling someone to leave and not formally trespassing them you cant then have them arrested for trespassing if they show up again. Other wise it would be abused to just arrest anyone and get them charged with a crime. At least in the US which is where this happened so that is all that matters.
There polices etc dont really matter to much. The fact they continued to take her money for years after shows she clearly wasnt still under a trespass warning any longer. They have no leg to stand on and just hoped she wouldnt sue when they denied her the winnings.
7:30 I used to work in Security and Surveillance at a local Indiana Casino. If we trespassed somebody for Panhandling, they would be detained, sat in an interview room, given a form to sign, and had a photo taken of them. They would be told how long they were banned for. And, we would log the video & audio of the interview room as evidence.
OK, good. That's the right way to do it. But, Indiana isn't Michigan, and the laws in Michigan are different- Verbal notice is sufficient. I'm also thinking that the mangers at this casino are confusing or conflating the laws, policies, and procedures at other MGM properties, and could be on the wrong side of Michigan law. I think she'll eventually win.
A long time ago on my 24th birthday, I stayed at a casino in Atlantic City. During the afternoon, I spent about 10 minutes at a slot machine and a security guard came out of seemingly nowhere and tapped me on the shoulder. He called me by my full name and said "happy birthday, and enjoy your stay," then handed me a pack of playing cards. I never had a player's card so there was no way the machine identified me. They absolutely know who is there and where they are at all times.
China is supposed to have facial recognition software that is accurate at identifying people, even when they are wearing a mask.
@@curtmeister24 Yup, and that's all coming here. I've played around with an ESP32 AI Cam module and for a $10 device, it does facial recognition pretty well. The Casino cams are definitely significantly more advanced and would have no issue spotting anyone wherever they are.
There is a reason why they use scanners to check IDs at casinos. They 100% keep track of every single person that walks in the door, regardless if the person signs up for the loyalty card or not.
@@ShaggyRogers1 Yeah, there is one near my sister that we go to when I visit. The machines don't take money anymore. You HAVE to get a card that you put into the machines. You have to give them valid ID, and go through a few things before you can play anything. They knew she was there, they were fine as long as she spent money.
They have dossiers on everyone who has ever walked through their doors
Casinos have KYC. Know Your Customer. If she had a player card they CLEARLY knew who she was and that she was gaming.
They card you through the door around here
In California, the casinos use face recognition software under the guise of taking your temperature🙄. Everyone that passes through the door is captured. What’s funny is that the temperature readers don’t even give an accurate temperature😂.
She was a consistent heavy loser so they let her keep playing
Every habitual player I know has a player's card. The card is how the casino keeps track of what type of player you are using a tier point system, they give you gifts and comps based on points earned and level of tier to entice you to be loyal and play at that casino. When you use that card, the casino knows you're there.
@@Civ5forlife-td7hythat is their focus
They had years to tell her to leave but only told her after she wins? They need to pay her.
There was similar case of man that was arrested for trespassing in a Walmart. The security guard had confused him with another man. But once they found out the mistake instead of just dropping the trespass charges they looked to see if he had ever been trespassed from Walmart before and it turned out he was trespassed from Walmart about 5 years before. But for the past 4 years he had been going to Walmart and shopping there. The guy ended up wining his case against Walmart and the police.
IF you were asked to leave ONE time, that's not a trespass according to the courts. There needs to be a documented trespass served to her to be valid. Also, even if that HAD happened (which it did not), the courts have ruled that the trespass is invalidated if the business then chooses to do commerce with the person. Just another excuse to steal from people.
Did she have a casino member comp card? If she did and was using it over the years, then she wasn't trespassing.
Most casinos you have to replace or update the card yearly.
She will win.
@@adambirman2379I think she'll lose. Fraud is being allowed to be perpetrated onto Joe Schmo. Two-tiered "justice" lawfare to bankrupt Americans.
CRIMINAL FRAUD!!!!! Not only should they be forced to pay at least treble damages, they should be facing charges for criminal fraud!
Businesses hardly ever face criminal charges
@Rastaferrari829 your point? Are you implying/inferring she shouldn't go after justice anyway to hold them accountable?
"Oh no! Some random keyboard warrior posting on YT said businesses hardly ever face criminal charges! I'll just go beat up grass then." smh
My argument is security was so quick to say she was a panhandler, they’d recognize her after 8 YEARS of coming back.
haha, exactly
@bn880 And to further that point it was her cousin she panhandled from.
Heck maybe they do this to as many people as possible, trespassing people for a day, (since she wasn't actually panhandling). Just so that it reduces the number of jackpots they have to pay out. 😂
They know everyone that goes in and out of the casino by name. They use some of the most advanced facial recognition software on the planet across all of the MGM properties. I’m sure they have everyone input in their system who they don’t want in there playing, e.g. those that are trespasse, cheats, card counters, etc…. They know!!
Casinos are some of the worst crocks around. I remember hearing a story where a 20 year employee with perfect attendance didnt show up one morning. Turns out he was at the hospital. The casino said since he didnt call to inform them that he would be absent after having a massive *heart attack* that morning he was effectively terminated as of the beginning of his shift and therefore his hospital bills were not covered by their health plan.
Sounds about right.
I'd go postal for that.
$127,000 winnings, plus $1,000,000 compensation for stress and anxiety caused by MGM's attempts to fraudulently rip her off.. That would be a fair settlement.
Non-economic damages like stress and anxiety (i.e., no physical injury) are typically capped. No way in Michigan she gets more than $500k over the $127k she won.
I believe the term is “estoppel.” Because the casino failed to enforce their ban against her for 8 years the ban is null and void. They can’t decide to let her slide for 8 years until she wins a big
EDIT: I wrote this before Steve got to it. I’m pleased to remember the business law course I took 30 years ago
...in your opinion, and you are not involved. Are you planning on moving there in hopes of being selected as a juror on this case, should it go to court, so you can force your opinion on the victim? Com'on, David. You can do better.
@@uberfine You just posted one of the dumbest comments I have read on here.
@@uberfine🤦♂️🤦♀️
The fact that she was told when asked how long was she kicked out for, and was told a day or two, means it wasn't a permanent ban, and thus they are just being crooks, and I hope they lose all their business if they don't make this right.
Even without that, the fact that they hadn't taken any steps to enforce a ban in all those years is something. Most businesses won't enforce a permanent ban just because of how much of a hassle that can be, especially given that if they haven't seen the person in a year or two, they may not be recognizable and there may not be any witnesses available if they need a witness to testify to the records in case of further issues.
And that's a matter of he said-she said.
@@ritanelson8879but no one believes casinos or their employees
This reminds me of the story about Norm McDonald, a notorious gambling addict. On one occasion he won $20k, went to the beach and tossed it into the ocean, realizing the casino would just take it all back eventually anyway.
If I was on the jury, I’d not only award her the $127k, but extensive punitive damages.
This has to be big news and MGM is going to lose business because of this. I think the one highlight her attorney should stress is if she'd lost 127k, they wouldn't refuse her money.
@@B_Bodziakthat's not a highlight. If you're not allowed in, but enter anyways and lose money, you did wrong and can't get a refund. But if you're still banned and go in anyways why would they pay you out on a jackpot ?
@@ImGettinWeirdas soon as they exchanged her money for chips they have created a contract.
You watch, the casino is going to offer all losses to her since 2015 to drop the lawsuit. It’s coming.
No way would her lawyers accept that plea deal.
Na she need atleast 500k for this
They aren't going to win this one in court.
That would be like Walmart telling me I'm trespassed when I ask for a refund after years of buying product
I work for a casino as a security officer. Panhandling is a 24-hour temporary trespass. then I usually a 30-day trespass, then a 90-day, then a permanent trespass. They do not go directly to permanent.
All she has to do show that rule to the jury. Put a security guard on the stand and ask them how a panhandling trespass is applied. And even if it was a permanent ban the Casino revoked it when they kept letting her in and taking her money.
The gamblers of the area can end this quickly. Boycott.
The’er too addicted & to superstitious to do that. I’ve seen news stories about a bomb being put in a casino and authorities having to literally physically force people to stop playing the slots & leave.
I’m not saying it wouldn’t work but I am saying it won’t happen.
Addicts don't boycott their plug
@@CubeInspector I'm wondering how many other casinos are in the area. There are a few small casinos around here that are more or less just card rooms, there's only a couple tribal casinos within any sort of reasonable distance of me.
It could potentially lead to people switching casinos, but gamblers can be very, very picky about which casinos are lucky and which ones aren't.
@@SmallSpoonBrigade
You mean very picky in their delusions. 😒
He mentions at least one other Casino in the story . They should run a full page ad about this story claiming you won't need a lawyer to get your winnings from us!
This is a creative new way to deny payment.
Just like Disney, won't pay up on a wrongful death suit because the husband once had a trial Disney+ account.
I sure hope she wins this case and gets more. Bloody bastards!! Happy to take her money until she finally wins. Shame on them
F U MGM Grand. That's unforgivable. And I live 20 minutes from there. I'll never be back!
So for 9 years, while she was losing money, the Casino Corporations didn't seem to mind her trespassing as long as she spent her money there, but now they have a problem...??
When casinos pull this kind of crap, they should lose their license and be forced to close their doors.
After being made to pay punitive damages plus the bet.
Be great to see them end up paying treble damages PLUS attorneys fees.
I don't care if she was trespassing. Even if she was trespassing all the casino can say "You've been trespassed, take your winnings and leave", but they can't not pay her what she's won.
If she's been criminally trespassed they can call the cops and have her arrested, but they'd STILL have to pay her her winnings.
Facial recognition in most casinos.
If her bet was accepted, then she wasn't trespassing.
Sort of like an unwritten contractual agreement, right?
the two are unrelated. you expect the person taking bets to know if she had been trespassed? she admits to being trespassed.
@@heazilla If she had been using a players card, then they knew she was there and they were probably giving her comps (plus they were probably mailing her offers to play there). At best, one hand didn't know what the other hand was doing. But you're right. The two are unrelated. If they accepted her bet, they have to pay even if she was legally trespassing. The casino doesn't get to freeroll off a trespasser. Pay her and have her arrested if they must. But they have to pay.
@@heazillaIm a lawyer and would argue that are not unrelated. The dealer can be considered an agent of the casino. It takes an offer and acceptance to create a contract. The dealer acting as an agent of the casino accepted the bet and created a contract with the player.
I would also argue, that if they knew she was trespassing all these years while still accpeting her business with no intention on paying out, then they were unjustly enriched and owe her all her spendings back over the years.
@@AJB_313 > The dealer acting as an agent of the casino accepted the bet and created a contract with the player. Make that argument in court and see what happens. I am not going to argue what a theoretical court would do.
They will pay 500k in lawyer fees to not pay her.
The Lawyer is on the payroll anyway. Just making him work for once, LOL
This case will get no further than depositions. The allegations and testimony under oath will not go well for MGM. First MGM will offer something stupid like $50k and a permanent free Player’s Card to their casino. The offers will keep climbing until a suitable agreement to the plaintiff is reached.
If my wife divorces me, she was actually trespassing and marriage should be annulled
🙄She probably owns half of the house.
Even if she doesn't, she is a legal tenant, and has the right to be there.
If a divorce is granted, then there is an explicit acknowledgement that the marriage occurred, and an annulment is impossible. You can only get one or the other - not both.
"One can’t receive a legal annulment for the same marriage if that marriage has already been terminated by divorce."
- Ken Dunham, attorney
From the replies I think people don't realize you were kidding.
@@gwenwilliams3673Right! Lol
@@ThereIsNoOtherHandleLikeMine Could a member of the Roman Catholic church not get a civil divorce and an annulment from the church relating to the same failed marriage?
Boycott MGM. They’re being a bunch of sore losers!
They orders by the state of California to not pay out
@@Ryansilver-w7z Why would the state of California take a position on a gambling debt in Detroit? You should be familiar with the place. Didn't you die in the MGM Grand in Detroit?
@@GRice999 to boost there economy, California is also responsible for the corrupt Powerball and mega million jackpot, because as long as a winner lives in the state of California, the state of California can read that winter of 30% or so if a winner happens to get $1.3 billion the state of California get $650 million
@@GRice999 also, whenever you play a slot machine, you get taxed
@@GRice999 no I’m very much alive but Chris Cornell. Unfortunately, he was murdered.😡😭
Shouldnt they at least give her all the money she spent up to the point she was "Trespassed"?
And all her spending since?
She was perfectly welcome as long as she was losing
@@alphagt62 we all are 😂
Usually casinos would love to do that. Since the price is generated from losses by multiple patrons, the prize usually far exceeds the amount any one patron has lost while gambling.
A guy talks to a farmer about buying a horse. Says he's going to use it as a prize in a raffle. They agree on a price, and the guy says he'll pick up the horse after the raffle.
Few days later the guy comes back. The farmer says he's sorry, but the horse died. The guy says ok, lemme see what I can work out.
Later the farmer meets the guy at a bar and asks how the horse raffle situation turned out. The guy says everything is good, and he doesn't need the horse. The winner complained about not receiving the horse he'd won. So he refunded the money for his raffle ticket.
And how is anyone going to know how much that was? Did she write it down every time she visited?
I'm not a gambler, but my late aunts used to go to nearby casinos fairly frequently, to play the slots. I'm sure they kept track of whether they were ahead or behind, but I strongly suspect that they didn't write it down anywhere, and that they simply figured it on a per visit basis, not adding it up over years of play.
If you've been making money gambling you have to declare it on your tax returns, but there's no requirement to declare your losses (though you can, I believe, deduct them from your winnings); why else would you keep track of your losses?
Casinos will use any excuse to not pay out winnings. But they'll take your money all day no problem.
She should sue for the winnings plus damages.
hmmm....sounds like insurance companies. casinos and insurance companies....the two biggest legalized scams.
Sounds like the criminal enterprise known as the insurance industry.
Most casinos are happy to pay out large winnings, because of the law of averages. 1 person wins a million dollars, the casino lose a million dollars. 1 million people lose 100 dollars, the casino makes 100 million dollars. Large jackpot winners get advertised, because they encourage other people to gamble in the hope of winning. And most people will lose because the odds favor the casino. Most casinos won't kick you out unless they believe you're cheating. And even then, they'll pay your winnings unless they can prove that you were cheating.
If she’s trespassing, they should be required to return every cent she spent there in between.
And if she’s averaging as little as $250 per visit weekly for those 8 years, that’s $100,000 right off the bat.
Can you imagine what would cost them to have an accountant to try to figure that out???
Sweet
Ill gamble in any casino, when I lose ill commit crime or give abuse ultill I'm tresspassed.... Boom full refund, can't lose
If her players card is blocked and it can be proven then she should not of been playing before checking being allowed to play again then yeah its annoying, but if no evidence pf the ban
Pay the lady
@@othertoken1349 why would they owe her losses back if she went in there when she was told she's not allowed back ? She collected winnings during those 8 years too that were less than the amount required to provide ID, and how would she ever be able to prove her losses ?
@@jaysonwallker1648 thats the punishment for failing to enforce the trespass
I think her case is strong if she has an MGM rewards card and has been getting rewards points and credits all these years. That means they knew she was playing there and they were welcoming her and rewarding her.
What the hell is 127 thousand dollars to MGM its literally pocket change. I hope she takes them out in court.
Yea from time she won to the time they came back and told her she was trespassing they probably made 2x that from people losing.
That is the problem, though. The casino can fight this in court for years. They have lawyers sitting around already paid to be there. They can appeal forever, effectively. But the lady only has her lawyer who actually will need to be paid. The entire winnings could be gobbled up by legal fees, not to mention the 50% tax she probably owes on the winnings if she collects. Her only hopes are huge damages, which again, the casino can appeal forever, or a quick settlement of some sort.
@@LatitudeSky the casino will also have to pay her legal fees.
Ppfffftt, they sould rather spend $400,000 dollars so they won't have to pay $127,000...??
Make it make sense!🤔
My dad told me never gamble at a casino, the house always wins!
I only went to a casino once in my life. I allowed myself a max of $40 because it's all I could spare at the time. I played a bit of video black jack and I walked out with $1,100.
Cool story bro
Your Dad was 100% on-point.
@@nodak81 I burned thru a roll of nickles at the Plaza Vegas and didn't get nuttin'.Crooked as a dog's hind leg.
@@nodak81
Last time I was in a casino was because of a business conference in Reno circa 1990. I bought a roll of nickels for the half-hour I had to kill before going to the airport. I walked around putting a nickel in here and there…..basically paying to watch people ruin their lives. 😟
Even if asked to leave and then she returns ~days later and they then take her money (or convert it to chips), my assumption would be the trespass is no longer valid.
I was once a casino pit boss & yes, casinos record everything, cameras everywhere except the bathrooms & they keep records on computer so that every time your name is entered your entire gambling history at that casino comes up.
But I have a system for a sure thing playing Black Jack. I’ll sell it to you if you need it.
I’d think that not having enforced the trespassing decision for 8 years would mean it is bull and void.
Casinos will happily spend $400K in legal fees to avoid paying a $127K prize. Casinos should go into the insurance business.
The attorney is already on the payroll, they're paying nothing extra for it.
Casinos should be banned. At best they are a parasite, in practice they are criminal organizations.
Pay the lady. It keeps hopes high
Sure but if people stop coming because you have a reputation as a cheat then it will cost them millions. There are other casinos in Detroit after all. What if they start running ads about how they actually pay out their winnings unlike some of their competitors.
@@NickSteffen That's great marketing: "Come to Harrah's! We'll pay you when you win!"; "Wynn Resorts: More winnings, fewer lawsuits".
If they won't pay her because she was trespassing, they need to go back and give her every single dime she lost during the times she was there "trespassing". They can't do this one way.
I think that Detroit MGM is going to regret not paying out the win. When this case hits the jury, the jury is likely to award the plaintiff big damages....
Especially as it is likely at least half the jury pool has at some point or the other lost money in a casino.
They’d settle before it came to that. I don’t understand why the Casino is doing this over $127k. It seems more trouble than it’s worth. The casino must earn that back in a matter of . . . what? . . . hours?
@@nsnoppernot only that, Lawyers are way more expensive before this is over even if they won
Vegas casinos wound never. They rack in millions every few days😂. This is truly stupid of them.
If I was on that jury, I’d be putting myself in her seat at that table, thinking wow! I finally got lucky and won! Then casino says no payout? Heck no! I would recommend the casino have to pay WAY more for trying to cheat her out of that win. And I have sat at Blackjack table at that casino. Maybe it’s time to gamble elsewhere!
Well years ago in the 90s I had a problem with gambling and I ask the attendant to help me stop so they took me to a room and I signed some paperwork banning me from gambling in the state and still to this day they send me a copy reminding me also I’m not allowed to enter any of their casinos in other states if I do it’s called trespassing and I would go to jail the money if I won would go to a charity that I chose o that day but all I’m saying is that I do still receive the letter yearly
If you won't pay for her win because she was trespassing, *you also can't keep the money from her losses.* Either they owe her the prize OR a refund for every penny she lost.
Every penny since day she was banned.
Plus the interest they made off her losses
I say they owe her the prize *_AND_* a refund. But I might just be a little greedy right now.
They will take these retired people's life savings and monthly checks, but not payout when one wins. Shameful. They should get shut down for this, or have to pay 10 fold.
Or get the Vegas treatment.
Casinos use extensive automated security measures, including facial recognition. There is no possibility they can "remember" everyone who is caught cheating or violating rules and laws. They rely on automation. So, if she was "permanently" trespassed they would know. Obviously they are simply trying to deny the payout.
Not true . Facial recognition is not used in every casino and definitely wasn’t used much in 2015 when she was first trespassed .
Yes same way the keep ppl who have self excluded or banned themselves they have a way
@@pikach26 Also not true . Many self banned people continue to patronize the casino . As long as they never have to show ID they’re fine
@@michaelblankenau6598 not true, the facial recognition software will pick you up, security will escort you out
As far as I'm concerned, if she can't win because she's trespassed, that should also mean she can't lose for the same reason (it is illegal to accept a bet where there's no possible way to win the bet and if she's trespassed, it's not possible to win the bet). She should allow the casino to a) either pay the jackpot, or b) refund the entirety of her losses since the time she was trespassed. Pretty straightforward.
My client was part of a 3 man team who traveled the country a few years ago installing facial recognition systems in casinos. Homeland security required it in every casino to combat money laundering of organized crime. If anyone stepped foot in any casino, someone knew you were there. The right people? I can’t answer that. But the hardware was there along with the software.
Why would anyone go to the MGM grand after this hits the press?
Addiction
Thank you for wearing a "Battleship Texas" tee. Sales of those tees go to the restoration of the old gal as well as the building of the new museum.
That's kinda kool. I love museums
Make sure it's on the news and everyone knows they don't pay.
I went to a casino once in my life, it was for a job interview. The interview went badly but I had some coins and decided to try a slot.. my first and only time I won a car… the security came to me and asked me to leave or they would sue me. To this day I have no idea what security was talkin about. I assumed the my were cheating, these stories prove I was right. Never been back.
You should have sued.
That never happened
Question: If this goes to court, can she ask for more than $127K in order to cover her attorney's fees?
Attorney fees, And pain and suffering.
I'm not an attorney. With that said, it appears that the casino didn't act in good faith. Hence, the request for attorney's fees is a legitimate and winnable part of the lawsuit, and punitive damages could also be awarded.
Not likely. Most civil cases don't allow recovery of attorney fees unless you act in bad faith during the course of the lawsuit. If you stonewall the discovery process for example you pay the fees of the other person for the handling of that stonewalling.
This cuts both ways, if youre offered a settlement and turn it down and go to trial and get less than the offer you owe attorney fees from the offer refusal.
This other dude replying here got "bad faith" right, he just doesn't understand the bad faith is specifically for the course of the litigation not the act itself.
lawyers are always the winners - whether they win or lose the case they get paid
@@CubeInspector Are you serious? If you turn down a settlement and end up winning less than what was offered to you, your lawyer is entitled to his/her portion of the original settlement?
They sure didn't mind taking her money, even if she was trespassing.
I won't be going to MGM after this. They should pay her her f'ing money IMMEDIATELY!!!
Us either...
she would probably be also able to make the argument that even if she was tresspassed , the casino has waived their right to assert that tresspass after multiple faliures to enforce the tresspass
They’ve been allowing her to play for 8 years, but NOW she’s trespassing? Absolutely not.
So for 9 years, while she was losing dollars, the Casino Corporations didn't seem to mind her trespassing as long as she spent her money there but, now they have a problem...??
That casino needs to be boycotted until they pay.
i'm 68 and we used to boycott businesses/companies and places that weren't doing right by people but it seems to have gone the way of 8-tracks. it's too bad, it was effective but it was also a time when mega corporations with no honor weren't the norm or so prevelant
@@leward7788 It's still in vogue enough to have worked with Bud Light.
@@leward7788 Bud Light and...Tractor Supply.
I hope she sues them for her jackpot and more like emotional distress, attorney fees, interest and other damages they can get.
Everyone should boycott MGM casino
Casino didn't have any issue taking money from her all the time while they were "trespassing".....
Its wild that they didnt want to tell her that until she won, before they were fine to take her losses. Criminal.
They pretty much gave her a membership card to the place, which means they knew she was there and they knew who she was. If this goes before a judge I would pretty much ask for summary judgement
If they’re right - then they owe all the past booted patrons refunds since their boot.
and if she indeed has a card for the casino, they would know exactly how much she won and lost.
If she lost a pile of money and then claimed the casino should give the money back because she was trespassing, would they?
After the first hand the trespassing order is void unless the order was part of a sentence by a judge, to allow her to play but unable to win is unjust enrichment.
She wasn't 'trespassing' while she gambled her money and once she wins she is 'trespassing'. They are going to lose tens of millions in bad press. She sure wasn't trespassing while losing money. Of course they wouldn't trespass her while losing money tacky tacky tacky. All of it.
It is tacky. Remember, it's Detroit. Meh.
It was easier to get paid out by the mafia.
The mafia is at least honest......
@@sketch6995fr
The Mafia was into honestly-dishonest. The casinos were run clean and friendly, the dirty parts were behind the scenes. Now that the casino IS the business, casino operators are just scum bags to everyone
But if there are alleged mafia connections to casinos why is this woman not getting paid easily? 🤔😂
@Hairy_Takoyaki because of your own word.......alleged. the government got rid of those connections AFTER the mafia built the casinos
i hope the courts take this and screw the casino for more than 127k just to push the point to not screw around.
I’m thinking if they took her money for 8 years after she was “Trespassed” and told it would last for 24/48 hrs. They might owe her the money.
So they remembered her face from 8 years ago when she won, but never once in 8 years she was there every week did they recognized her when she lost?
So for 9 years, while she was losing money, the casino
didn't seem to mind her trespassing, now they have a
problem.
Actually she's the one with the problem. She has a gambling problem
@youropionmattersnot That depends. If her bills are paid and she's not going into debt because of it. Then it's not really a problem. It's entertainment. You could argue that it's fiscally irresponsible for anyone to gamble. But many would disagree. At least it has a potential upside. Unlike people that spend thousands going to a sporting event or concert, or even just bars/clubs. That's literally money down the drain purely for entertainment with no financial upside.
Exactly
She should sue them for 8 years of losses as part of her complaint in the event the court decides that the jackpot was properly denied.
@@youropionmattersnot She's 65, do you realize how many elderly people gamble because they can literally afford to?
There’s a “player’s card”, a magnetic or chipped credit sized credit card used to play on machines and given when playing at a table. That card record proves all the times she was there.
If they can deny her the winnings would there also be a case to be made that she should get her losses refunded for the past 8 years? Yes, I'm aware they can't determine what that amount would be. I'm just interested in the legal precedent.
Is there a legal paper preventing her from entering. No. In order to be tresspassed one must be asked to leave. If they don't leave or leave and come back thats trespassing.
Law 101.
dont forget that by accepting her money that trespass is effectively null and void
Im curious if the casino considers all trespasses as permanent bans. If so then I suspect they owe millions in bets they weren't supposed to take.
This
@@geekmoto1363 I wouldn't even hold that. I would hold even if it is tresspassing they still have to pay up; then she gets prosecuted for tresspassing.
@@joshuahudson2170 walmart has tried something similar and lost, there was a recent case where someone got arrested for tresspass and when the criminal case was dismissed they sued walmart and won, because they accepted his money and did business with him.
Trespass is forfeit even when declared permanent if afterward they persist in allowing the person to access the property.
With a jury trial, this should be a slam-dunk.
I hope she gets the $127K plus expenses plus a lot more.
Pay her lawyers fees.
in normal court? yes
in tribal court? no. she probably wont get a fair trial.
This is an easy case either way it goes. You can find records of trespass orders. If MGM never trespassed her, she probably wins.
If it turns out MGM did alert authorities and had her formally trespassed, well then the lady was trespassing.
Easy case either way
Lawyers fees and hopefully punitive damages. Not sure if she can get interest since the time of the win. Perhaps Steve can tell us.
@@RobertLee-wi5kc thats in normal court. most casinos are on tribal jurisdiction which was an umconstitutional created years ago from treaties that violate comstition also known as intermarional agreements, basically foreign countries made efforts to undermine our constitution.
basically those serve as means to obstruct justice. casinos are loaded with white collar crime and this jurisdiction helps protect them unfairly.
This is a matter of contract law. By the casino accepting her money while she was gambling essentially creates an implied contract with her to pay her out when she wins. The only way that they would not be liable to pay her out is by NOT allowing her to place her bets. Every time she lost her money then placed a new bet she created a new implied contract with the casino to pay her out when she wins. Also, I’m sure that she has won some amount of money in that casino since the time that she was asked to leave. Even if the casino only paid her out $100, it still shows that their claim of trespassing is invalid because it shows that she has done business with them at some point after being asked to leave but prior to her winning the jackpot. That’s where the estoppel principle can be applied.
My question is if they have an oversight committee has no power to enforce it how is it even worth having it enforce the rules
The old fox guarding the henhouse type of checks and balances. SOP for a lot of state governments.
@@curtmeister24 Regulatory capture.
I believe gaming boards are like the FAA... its PEER management i believe. They are for regulating the industry but something like this i don't think would be in their purview. Essentially the board is made up of casino insiders. their primary interest being casino interests.The board could never have the power to force financial items on a casino unless its some kind of internally agreed upon principle or bylaw, etc. Courts can force the casino no problem though.