I think you hit on an important realization us fan(atic)s must understand. Our heroes record something and don't often think about it or listen to it again. Yes, they have created a world through their music - but only we live in it.
I watched the documentary yesterday and actually told my wife afterwards the same kind of thing. When Phil said “It was 1975 after all” (or something similar) associated with Wind and Wuthering, my brain immediately replied ‘No it was 1977’. But yes these are just quibbles. I think it’s a naivety on my part to assume that Phil enjoys (or has even thought about) the same Genesis songs as much as I do. For example, I just want Phil to like Down and Out😊.
Its like what Phil has said about his 80 and 90's ubiquity " People have to remember , I only wrote and recorded those songs ONCE". What happens after that is out of his control.
@@lagrega "For example, I just want Phil to like Down and Out" Even moreso than seeing Phil in the physical state that he's in which is effing heartbreaking especially when you can just pull up a youtube clip of him even in the 2000's when he was still so healthy and robust ( not only playing but just in interview clips ) , hearing him say that about Down and Out which is such a monsterfuck of drumming excellence, hurt me the most .
I'm not ashamed to say that four minutes into it, I choked up. His playing to me is undeniable and he easily sits on my Mt. Rushmore of influences. My favorite all-around musician. Ever!
What's so great and special about Genesis is, you get to hear Phil's great running on the albums and then when they play live, they literally sound even better and you have Chesters amazing drumming and also Phils in part ... No band can do what Genesis did. Always underrated far too much.
What I loved about the documentary was that Phil hasn't lost his sense of humour (despite everything that's happened to him physically). The sad part was the lack of interview with Chester Thompson (& even Bill Bruford) as historically, he had the best perspective on Phil as a drummer (+ seeing inside Phil's drum parts).
Yeah, you can tell from the Genesis doc ten years ago that Chester was like 'ok, I've said all I'm going to say' and Bill was probably 'what ANOTHER doc, how come nobody cares about MY career:)' Even Simon Phillips only really added "oh genesis asked me to join'. What, you've got nothing about his drumming?
Ii watched the documentary and really enjoyed it. It great to listen to Phil talk about his history. I appreciate the clips of drummers from other bands tell how Phil Collins talent influenced them. In the beginning,, it is younger drummers speaking about Phil. As the interview progresses, drummers of Phil generation said they were influenced by him. He started as drummer, then singer, songwriter, producer. Phil talent is amazing.
So sad to see my hero like that. I saw him at the last concert in Toronto. Drew tears. Phil, you'll be in my heart now and forevermore. Trust God for you salvation. He loves you and gave you many gifts. I want to see you drumming in Heaven. God Bless you, the Artful Dodger.
Yes the fill is on Los Endos on Seconds Out around 5 minutes in. I remember it now I listen back and always thought In The Air Tonight when I heard it. Now I'm going to have to listen to the rest of Seconds Out again.
Born in 1989 and now I am mostly into metal. I like some 80s music (including Phil Collins) but never really got fully stuck in. Something I love is music history from the 60/70/80s period because it was before my time. While watching this doc, I kept pausing it to go listen to songs from the album they were talking about. It actually took me two evenings of watching to get through it all. By the end, I had ended up with a solid 12/13 tracks which I have no had on a playlists and can NOT stop listening to. I always knew these songs from my childhood, but now I'm learning the words and all the intricacies of the songs. And learning about the story of Phil makes it even more special. Jesus He Knew Me and Turn It On again are stand outs. I never knew Genesis were a prog band, and it's amazing to hear the transition of their sound. Good or bad, I am SO glad I found this doc!
I too love this "Drummer First" documentary. And same as you was not realizing the scope of it. It was announced in 11/ 2022 as a trip to Switzerland castle with Nic to sit w Phil. 2 of the 3 day scheduled "interview" was with Phil, the 3rd with Nic only. Then Nic came back and those videos where Nic went through the songs with Brandon, they had just gotten back from that trip. Nic mentioned how he learned on that trip that he'd been playing it wrong. Your theories are correct about Concord. The founder of Drumeo, Jared Falk, replied to a comment on their Twitter post: "Concord Music, the rights holder for Phil Collins and Genesis recordings, has declined to participate in this documentary and has not granted Drumeo permission to feature any music or past video footage of Phil Collins or Genesis. As a result, we have explored alternative ways to tell Phil’s story and present the narrative without their involvement." It is BEAUTIFULLY put together. The guest musicians must have taken some time to schedule, edit, etc. My husband, also a drummer of over 55 years, recognized, Dom Famularo right away. A respected drum instructor and has attended drum clinics he's led. Famularo passed away just over a year ago. So we know the guest commentary was planned. I felt like this documentary was Phil passing on the baton to Nic. That's the overall impression I got from watching the premiere and then my own re-watch. Which is a great thing for Phil's legacy. However, now that I've seen Jared's comments about Concord restrictions and listening to you, I need to watch again and maybe reassess. The many scenes with Phil handling, looking at, holding his sticks I think was heartbreaking for him and me as well. Something he loved so much, dedicated himself to, sacrificed for, that catapulted his life into mega 🌟, he can no longer enjoy. 🥺 However, this showed us that even though he's physically changed, he's the same sharp, funny, humble, beautiful man we ❤ I hope this helps his chances with the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame to #getphilvotedin too! 😁 😎🙌👍
I'm glad you enjoyed it ❤ but I'm surprised it even got the go ahead without having any permissions in place to use Genesis/ Phils Music. Would you watch a documentary celebrating Diego Maradona with no actual football footage and someone recreating them because they can't show the actual goals..... You just wouldn't go ahead with the documentary...
@@BigALuk33The sale came after the footage was filmed, at great expense. They wouldn't just want to end up throwing it all away (no pun intended). Concord now has full control (they even are getting his writer and performer royalties) of the catalog. Even if Phil called them and said let them use it, they legally can tell him "No".
I would love to see a Master Class done with nick and phil just explaining his works over the years ( I mean all of it) player,singer,producer...I mean ALL OF IT !!!
I agree, the parts with Nick and Phil were the best part! I would hazard a guess that Nick probably learned a lot about his Dad during the sit-down interview portions. I'm flying to to Wales to see Mick + the Mechanics on April 9th, so pleased to hear Nick will be drumming on the tour!
Loved the documentary and it merits a rewatch. The music rights issue does hamper it some as it would great to hear the actual drum bits they talk about especially with the older Genesis songs. Any Phil content is much appreciated and he deserves his flowers for his innovation in drumming. Last point, you were so right in pointing as fans we can get bummed out when we hear any of the guys in the band sound like they are not fans of certain albums or periods of time in the band’s history.
Seeing Phil in this physical condition is heartbreaking. He's the youngest member of Genesis and here he's looking older than the mask Peter used to wear to close out The Musical Box.
I enjoyed hearing Phil's anecdote about the stage malfunctioning during "The Trip into to Light Tour" and him having to play the famous "In The Air Tonight" fill under the stage. I would've loved to have been old enough to have attended that tour. If "Live and Loose in Paris" was any indication, it was a truly epic run of shows.
@@EverythingPhilCollins Phil specifically said it was the "Dance into the Light," tour. I remember seeing it on UA-cam at some point in recent years. The "Final Farewell" shows looked awesome as well!
I loved the documentary!!!! I thought it was phenomenal!!! It’s one of my new favorite videos of all time!!!!! Plus it’s about drums!!! And I am a sucker for drums and all things percussion!!!!
Scott, OM Goodness. I am not a drumeo member however if I could play the drums I would but I can’t because of limitations that I have. But besides the point, I am so glad this Documentary is now out there for me to enjoy. Yes I am a Phil Collins Nerd. It does not matter to me in what situation Phil Collins is in. This Documentary was DEFINITELY worth the wait. I am sick and tired of People putting Phil Collins down as a nobody. He is without a Doubt the most UNDERRATED Drummer around. Mike Portnoy said it best with that Statement. I have more to say at a later time.
If Nic set up a tribute band (with Nic on drums of course) I'd go see it anywhere, anytime! I wonder if the Genesis comments are really about his role in the group. For a long time he was essentially a hired hand. Tony and Mike were the driving force in his mind I think. He said something about drumming after becoming the singer and how he lashed out a bit with the drums and that he couldn't play that way again. I think that is very understandable and just makes him even more accessible. Cheers, Ian
Yes, it’s at about 4:21 in the Seconds Out version of Los Endos, at least in the version I have. Actually a normal drum fill and what can be called a “top and bottom” warm-up exercise for drummers; it’s more the way it was used in In The Air Tonight to break tension that was innovative
It made me quite emotional seeing Phil sitting behind the drums with his cheeky smile - knowing full well it's a pipedream. The highlight sure is the relation between Nic and Phil. It made me extra sad to see Sir Elton John that same evening doing interviews on American Late Night shows, at the age of 76 and promising new music and having recently made a hit with Dua Lipa. (Elton basically said he wasn't too much a fan of his own music either)
Apparently Phil Collins and Chester don't speak after a fall out a few years ago. Tony Banks seems to have interviewed a lot on UA-cam by different people so maybe you might be able to interview Tony as he seems open to interviews with some fans. I saw Genesis at Knebworth 1992 here in England 🇬🇧
They dont speak but Chester has done interviews about Phils drumming, and pretty favourable ones. These guys have done a fair bit of docs and the 'this is your life' so Tony is likely "look, anything to be said I've said it a dozen times".
@@RonnieMcNairney The story is that it was when Phil was in his alcoholic stage and he reemed out Chester on stage in front of everybody for something. People should keep in mind that the Genesis guys and the people who work with them have all said they don't exactly 'hang out' with one another. Darryl Stuermer said that when they did the 2007 tour he hadnt seen anything of them since they had performed together over a decade earlier.
As a big Genesis and PC fan and a learning drummer, I enjoyed the documentary and especially some of the things that I haven't heard before one way or the other (for instance, the In The Air Tonight fill in Seconds Out thing and Simon Philips having been approached to join Genesis). As for Chester and Bill not being there, I can understand it, since this was about Phil's drumming and Chester and Bill are two respected drummers in their own right who also are of the same generation as Phil, so probably there would have been no point in them celebrating Phil, unlike all the drummers that were in the documentary, who were born after him and influenced by him. Things that disappointed me a little bit: 1. Too many I don't know's from Phil. Maybe it's because he doesn't remember some of the things the way he used to, or because he has told these stories so many times that he just gets bored repeating them. 2. All these drummers talking about Phil (even though it was nice to see Mike and Chad), they make the documentary a little too busy, it might as well have been 1/2 hour shorter. And all of them doing DA DA BUM DA DA BUM DA DA BUM DA DA BUM DA DA... come on, did we really need that? 3. I'd have appreciated if not only Nick, but also Simon Collins had taken part in the documentary. Phil himself has said in many interviews how a fantastic drummer and musician Simon is, and he really is (in the 90s Phil and Simon did a gig together, in Geneva I think, and it's amazing watching both of them playing drums). It would have been nice to hear some stories from Simon.
It must have been very disappointing for Brandon and Nic to ask questions only to get "I don't know." Not to knock Phil, he's been through a lot and is not in the best of health. But Brandon and Nic were looking forward to hearing definitive answers to questions they worked on probably for a good amount of time. For instance, in the e-book, Brandon really wanted to know about the time signatures to Robbery, Assault, and Battery, only for Phil to say that he didn't remember much about the song.
I hope Trevor lukather and Nick continue to the music of two amazing families as one they could hopefully create some great music… I feel the same way about the doc. I felt the ornery old man, that used to be such a happy bouncing soul and a magician of many things… but I also understand if I was there and didn’t have my super powers still what would a lot of things mean to my life at that point… it’a touchy for sure.
A few of my observations. - I did find it odd that there was no music, which I figured was a rights thing. But I thought they worked around that pretty well by focusing on the drum part as played by Nick. Kind of like not seeing the shark in Jaws. - You never really get anything from Phil, but I suppose in talking with his son, he'd bit somewhat more revealing, so I enjoyed that. Phil always seems like a reluctant participant in these things. - He absolutely played that In the Air Tonight fill other times; it's a semi-regular go-to fill. I dont see that as an issue or anything. He recorded it again a year later for Thru These Walls. Whatever. - Really no mention of his music beyond Invisible Touch except for Tarzan and the the big band. Not sure I would have needed any focus on those albums, but just something to note. - I liked seeing Nick marvel at his dad's setup. - Liberty Devitto is my second-favorite drummer. Cool to see him as a talking head. - Lastly, this made me think of family dynamics. Was there any mention of Simon? There was a part where in talking to Nick, he references his "oldest daughter" as if Nick didn't know who that would be. Just makes me wonder - but none of my business. - The "I'm not the biggest Genesis fan" line was pretty frank but did stick with me after I watched this, and kind of in a sad way. I guess he's still a fan. Your observation about being a bigger fan than Phil of his Genesis music is pretty spot on. I feel the same way.
It was an absolutely amazing documentary/interview. I’ll admit at times I was getting choked up just thinking of his greatness. Also I’m glad Dave Grohl wasn’t a talking head.
Hi ! I am a drummer who has plaid in Genesis tribute bands for 25 years in the UK. Originally from Switzerland. I am now back in Switzerland and the first day that this film was being recorded I was in Vevey a block away from the castle . Phil Collins is the reason why I play drums . I had the huge honour of being able to rent my drums for a sampling project thst happened at the Genesis Studio The Farm. I had a little jam and this was filmed on a phone . So I hope you enjoy it and remember, it's off the cuff. Feel free to share the video if you like it ! I dig your channel ! So, from one fan to another... ua-cam.com/video/O54kIW_LVxU/v-deo.htmlsi=N4ZflWKMYxshCNXw
@@EverythingPhilCollins I would love to get to the bottom of it. The documentary was great. I think you could probably get an interview with Nic Collins as he does interviews and maybe Phil as well. Might be worth pursuing. Saw Genesis in 1992 at Knebworth Park here in England. They were amazing and I've since seen it on UA-cam which is called Genesis 1992 Knebworth.
So glad Drumeo did this, since Netflix's "Count Me In" didn't even mention Phil in their lineup of famous drummers. Kinda disappointed they didn't mention Simon Collins since he is Phil's son and an established singer and drummer as well. I'm also a huge Phil fan and I find it's funny that Nic and Phil talked about Frida's "I Know There's Something Going On", and in my opinion "I See Red" is a far superior drum song. Once you get better at the drums Scott, that's one for you to tackle for sure. As I may have mentioned before on your channel Scott, people need to listen to John Martyn's Glorious Fool LP and Grace and Danger LP, both of which Phil plays drums/piano and sings on!
Hey Scott!! How are you?? Kinda weird that I am watching your review before watching this documentary. I plan on some fine wine and watching the whole thing tomorrow night. Very excited. The one thing that instantly triggered my brain was the "In the Air Tonight lick" that was foreshadowed on Seconds Out. I am not a drummer and I am usually wrong about these things but immediately my thought went to Los Endos just before Steve's guitar solo ua-cam.com/video/jkrLGIhoCaE/v-deo.html @5:07 Great review. Exciting times to be a Phil/Genesis fan.
Hurts me deeply to see my hero Phil Collins struggle. An uttered tragedy. Life can be very cruel. Phil you'll be in my heart, now and forevermore. God Bless you. He loves you and gave you many gifts. Acknowledge His Son Jesus and believe Him for your salvation. I want to see you in Heaven drumming.
I’m about a third of the way through the drumeo video. I keep stopping it because it’s hard to watch. My mother recently died of Alzheimer’s and I can’t help but see some of her at the beginning of the illness in how Phil is interacting here. I can definitely understand your sentiment of “I’m a bigger fan of his music than HE IS!” Maybe a better line of questioning for Phil would’ve been to talk about The Who, Billy Cobham, Ringo, people HE probably knows more about than they do! Anyway, love your channel. And love those roto-toms!
“Chinese Wall is quite a good album.” Finally! Such an underrated album. Overshadowed by Easy Lover. But the grooves on songs like “Time is a Woman” good god! I’m feeling better about the doc. I just had to power through my own hang ups. Shame it’s missing actual music, but still very well done.
This is why these music labels are killing older music. They are so damn greedy that they are screwing themselves. If they put bits of music in this would be a great advertisement and cause many viewers to want to buy this older Genesis, Brand X, Phil, Tarzan, etc etc. music. I'm all for protecting the musicians, song writers, publishers, etc. but by restricting this too much it hurts them. Take for instance a live streamer, they walk by some place playing music and then they get a copy write strike or loose their YT money because they have to pay the publisher of that 10 sec of song. Stupid!
I have watched this documentary three times now and find it interesting on lots of levels. To me, the most interesting parts were the home movies. I would much rather hear about Nic and Phil’s relationship and Nics drumming. I’d love to have seen more home movies. We’ve pretty much heard everything Phi, is ever going to tell us. I did enjoy the ebook though. I play piano, not drums, but found that very nice to have. I’m sad Chester wasn’t interviewed and neither was Simon. It’s obvious that Nic is Phil’s favorite, but Simon must feel awful to be left out. Phil looks so terribly frail for 73. He looks 20 years older. I am sad he said he wasn’t Genesis biggest fan. I don’t think he really meant that. Old people have no filters and just say what they think at the moment. He used to say how much he loved Mike and Tony and that’s why they still played. I did think the photography was beautiful. I’m just glad to have anything new from Phil. I miss him.
My impression going from a clip is he seemed really old and that's the case with a lot of Boomers. If you like Phil Collins check out instrumental versions of RnB from the 90s. It has a similar contemporary pop flare with the 808 cowbell, congas or reverberated snares.
I was a little bit put off when I saw a picture of Earth, wind and fire while they were talking about weather reports so they were showing the wrong band.
I had never heard Phil say he wasn't a fan of Genesis before. Depending on how you take it, it makes sense because maybe he's saying he preferred his solo and Brand X careers more. That makes sense. But I'd hate to think that all that innovation and unconventionality was in any way unpleasurable for him. Because he performed Genesis like a beast. Maybe I took what he said wrong.
Personally and sincerely, I didn’t like it; I found it to be of low production quality. Most of the drummers featured are not very well-known. I don’t mean to diminish their merit, but I feel their inclusion is mostly filler, leveraging Drumeo's resources. If the documentary is about Phil and is produced by drummers, I think Chester's participation is essential. Not including him takes away 50% of its weight. This is without even mentioning Simon Collins-he’s also a drummer and has been playing for many more years than Nic. To me, it’s a very amateur documentary in which Nic, being part of Drumeo, had enough influence to convince his father.
I often think about how much more I seem to care and know about a few artists' careers than these artists themselves. It's a weirdly frustrating thought. Sometimes you can think, you know, "random people I meet must think I kind of have nothing to do with my time and brain to retain so much useless information about, say, Genesis". I'm okay with random people thinking that about me, I don't care. But it becomes a little hurtful (?) when you sort of realize that the artist you are a fan of might kind of feel the same way in a way? I'm not saying Phil *actually* thinks we're idiots for caring this much, but the unsettling feeling we get at Phil and Nic not knowing a basic piece of information about Genesis, I wouldn't be surprised if it had a little to do with a weird insecurity about being a geek/fan of anything. I dunno. I'm not sure how to word what I'm trying to say properly! Also, sometimes I feel like these artists overplay their "I don't really care" attitude towards their old stuff, maybe as a sort of defense mechanism against the fact that they might still be praised more for things they did as teenagers/young adults than anything they did after. I've seen Phil, in other interviews, pull out facts and things from the past that made me think "wait, he DOES remember a lot more than he lets on". His autobiography certainly says so. I mean I'm talking about Phil here but this applies to a lot of older artists...
Outstanding, insightful, and wildly interesting documentary. Also made me very sad, because Phil is clearly not physically well. I don’t know what has been happening these past years, but he looks as if he’s dying.
a lot of good comments/points already made, but i'll add to it. yes, for all of the time they put into it, it could have been better. kind of sad, i guess because of youth, these guys just didn't know some things about 'the subject matter'... as you said, you and other fans, knew more than these guys. and phil has done so many things, and... the years have been hard... i'm just glad he can think straight these days, and to ask him to remember things... but he also has a bad attitude about his past, it would seem. as you said, this is the crux of it. if you tell him it's a documentary about all of the music he made... and he doesn't really want to put much effort into it/doesn't really seem to want to talk about it.... i think, in the end, while it is entertaining even for hard core fans, it is fundamentally flawed - they could have done so much better if he had been a willing/eager participant.
Yeah I'm not sure WHY this is, there is nothing new here and you can tell the drummers are just like "hey, do like the guys did in the RUSH documentary". It almost seems more for the drum channel and Nic, which is just fine. There is almost no point in even TALKING about drumming after 1983, so its weird in a doc about Phil 'as a drummer' that theyd go on and rub it in his face that "here is where he became a singer". Granted I fast forwarded a bit, but they didn't even mention the number of times he was 'drummer of the year' by modern drummer, heck, its even Chester Thompson that talks about that.
Not everyone likes verse verse chorus, ballads, and his voice. "Untouchable" isn't true. There are many good composers. Edit: Aaaaand, he's not underrated either. Especially not criminally underrated. Weird comment.
The doc taught us nothing and really didn't explore Collins' drumming (and completely absent of the use of actual recordings to do so). When you talk about a PC drum part, it isn't really sufficient to have NC play it. It was shallow, ans as much about him as a singer as it was anything else. Very disappointing I thought.
I got halfway through the documentary and just stopped as it was frustrating me so much. The fact that no music or video of Phil playing wasn't used is ridiculous and after looking at the video's description they say right at the bottom about Concord Music refusing to give permission for any content to be used. Your suspicions are correct on that front. It's a crazy situation. The documentary is not complete without it. If it was me, I wouldn't have released it as it is. There's no point as far as I'm concerned. Wait to get permission or crowd fund the money if required. Surely 4 million subscribers could come up with the cash.
"They're not really interested in their own art." Are you serious? "I've listened to Phil Collins and Genesis music probably 1000 times more than Phil's ever listened to his own album" (21:00). "There's no doubt in my mind." I beg to disagree. Your channel is great and your content is shot well, good mic, etc. But watch out for deciding that you know something better than others, especially the creators of the magic that you are building upon. I really like all the work you're putting out there, but be careful and be humble, please. Otherwise you're just fishing for the biggest fish instead of having fun and entertaining us. (Both of which grow a channel, but one has a longer shelf life.) Keep up the good (and right) work. And regarding the context of the comments that you made ... he's had a long life! Lots of stuff. Lots of details. If he didn't remember something suddenly asked to him, so what? It doesn't mean he's dismissive of his past. Let's simply celebrate what he has made for us and brought to us.
There are a lot of band members who don't appreciate their own bands. Not sure why. Perhaps a "modesty" thing. With Phils sense of humour, could it have been tongue-in-cheek? No matter, I'm a huge Phil and Genesis fanatic.😊
Yeah I found the ‘not a fan’ comments sad (but honest and that’s appreciated above all else) but something tells me it’s physically impossible to spend 50 years in a band and not be a fan. Maybe it was awkward phrasing for saying he was tired after playing everything 10,000 times.
Phil Collins never liked progressive, he was more into jazz, funk, big band, yes he brought the "Phenix Horns" to Genesis and collaborated with Philip Bailey of EWF and to end his career he made an album of soul, funk, Motown covers called "Going Back", we shouldn't be surprised, and with that taste he enriched Genesis
I enjoyed it. Initially, I was going to turn it off after the first 5-odd minutes, because Phil looked so, so frail and old, and was barely responding to the questions. Then it got better, he became more animated, and more responsive. The video could have been dramatically improved if they incorporated more footage of Phil drumming back in the day, accompanied by other musicians (Genesis, his solo tours, Brand X etc.) Having Nick play Phil's drums, while interesting, wasn't particularly what I wanted to watch. And the drumming, without context, loses a tremendous amount. Overall, the documentary was good, but could have been much, much better.
Come to think of it, why was there no mention of Phil working with Ricky Lawson from 1994 to 1997... that was very poor on behalf of the documentary "research".
Questo è solo l'inizio......Phil ha vissuto molte vite in parallelo sia artistiche che umane.....troppo da capire per noi esseri umani.....in molti non lo hanno capito e quello che non capiamo spesso ci impaurisce.....la reazione è la critica......e Phil è stato sempre il bersaglio preferito dai critici.....dopo la sua "partenza" gli stessi che lo hanno distrutto lo celebreranno.....diranno che era un genio e saremo sommersi di pubblicazioni.....brutta cosa l'ipocrisia....
Oh, yes. The same critics who championed punk’s effort to make the pretentiousness of prog-era Genesis extinct or Oasis while Noel Gallagher was personally badmouthing Collins at every opportunity will miraculously turn out to have been Phil fans all along. The same tabloids that claimed he divorced his wife by fax (false) or voted Tory (false) or ran to Switzerland to avoid taxes and/or because Blair was elected (false) will lay it on something terrible about what a great guy he was and how his music was universally loved.
I have to admit it did break my heart when Phil said he's "not Genesis's biggest fan". Too much of a blanket statement, I know he's proud of a lot of the music. About the video as a whole, it was a treat of course but I also felt it was quite disjointed at times. I could tell sometimes that comments about something else had been edited in at strange moments. There was obviously an amazing thread of conversation with Phil and Nic that got a bit lost in the weeds. Very pleased to hear that some raw footage will be put out in the future.
When looking back at what he has done with a group he has been part of for nearly 50 years, there must be numerous things he wishes hadn’t happened or regrets to some extent. He might even feel the same way about his own career. I got the impression that he speaks this way because he is not someone who fully admires all the work he has done. For instance, Tony Banks’ favorite album is “Duke,” but if we were to ask Collins, he might choose a different one. Based on the impression he gave during this two-hour interview, it seems he would have preferred to remain solely a drummer in Genesis. That said, he is aware of the significant impact they had on music and how they dominated the music industry. However, instead of taking pride in it, he humbly chooses to say, “I was a lucky man.”
I think it became disjointed once the sale to Concord happened and they declined letting them use any of the songs. Now they cannot play what they are talking about. That sale came at a bad time for them.
I liked the documentary but again like all other Genesis / Phil Documentaries it didn't go far enough. Too much time spent on the prog days then the middle period was then jumped and we were on Tarzan. Far too much time was spent on the in the air tonight fill.... Phil has said it was a noose around his neck .... It started irritated me... Phil's drumming is soon much more than in the air tonight. The issue with music rights also ruined it for me.... Nick is a great drummer but he isn't phil....and the whole idea of the documentary was to celebrate Phil's Drumming... Not Nic doing a copy of what Phil did cause they couldn't get the rights to any concerts etc. Was touching to see Phil behind the kit again but also I could see 50 years of drumming had ruined him physically and mentally....when Phil said " That's enough of that ' you could sense that drumming had left him, do Phil has no interest in doing it again....almost like a divorce... And if the drumming came back to him he would give it another go... Again a bit like his third wife. I enjoyed it ( in parts) but it could have been so much better.😢
Your realisation at the end that we know more and care more than Phil and Nic (and Drumeo I suspect) is an epiphany !! To be honest I was disappointed with the doc for all the reasons you state here. I was touched by Nic and Phil's relationship but I didn't feel I learnt much that I didn't know already and the constant lame use of punditry to play the In The Air Tonight fill became nauseating. All but a handful of the pundits seemed to just be paying lip service to the guy, most didn't seem to really understand or rate him. There was so little about his peak 75' to '80 drumming period, no real 'drum talk' other than a few nuggets. I wasn't surprised as he's never been one for talking about his playing, even when he was younger. Reading his autobiog it's clear he was at times even a bit insecure about it which is such a shame. The obvious problem with the copyrights and those tossers at Concorde or whoever it is was owns the back catalogue was the straw that broke the camels back. There was so little context for people who maybe didn't know the back catalogue other than Nick valiantly trying to play some of the parts which, and I mean no disrespect to him, he doesn't play like his dad and neither should he. He's solid for sure and I'm sure there's a career out there for him as a player but this mimicking your dad thing has become a bit of an albatross if you ask me. I do respect Drumeo for giving it their best shot. Hope I don't sound like an ungrateful tosser myself😳
Interestingly, Phil's older son Simon actually DOES play just like Phil. Like, spookily so. I saw him drumming with Sound Of Contact and he is the only other drummer I've seen that has that effortless ability to start his drumsticks miles away from the skins and yet still generate that speed and power.
@@christianparsons6050 I wonder deep down if it annoys Simon that Nic is the one who got to play in Phil's band and Genesis? I know Simon is a huge fan of Genesis from previous interviews
@@BigALuk33Good to know I'm not a tosser😆 Yes I wondered what Simon's feelings were with the whole thing. Maybe he didn't want it, happy doing his own thing...I thought it was strange how Phil didn't really give Nic much tuition other than a few pointers, I'd have thought he would have been keen to educate him more on technique or get him a really good teacher to develop his own style more. But hey that's just me...
@@markgolland5717I heard the engineer from the Band-aid "do they know it's Christmas" single (excellent doc on the making of it on bbc and ytube) talking about Phil and what a lovely bloke he was. Also how 'Pud' his tech came in early to set up the kit and do a preliminary sound check. They watched as Pud hit each drum from about a metre back like he was wielding a hammer at the fair. Then when Phil played the levels were still too high even though he didn't appear to be exerting himself😅 That's part of his sound that I never really understood until recent years, he hits them bloody hard!
Had the feeling they asked any drummer associated with Drumeo about Phil. Some where true fans and actually showed albums they had etc, others just knew Phil by the in the air tonight drum fill....these drummers should have been rejected.... I got irritated by the constant obsession with In the air tonight.....Even Phil used to joke I'm gonna play that F**king song again. Phil's drumming was so much more than ITAT
I think it's hard to make a doc like this when you're trying to entertain fans like us, while also educate folks who aren't familiar with his work. Very hard to please all audiences.
A good documentary but it has its flaws, there are issues with chronology, the photo credits (wrong and suspicious). The documentary makers could have approached a few fans/collectors who have interesting items, which would have been useful in the documentary. It certainly was not perfect. Nice to see Nic again.
Hearing the background music that was obviously done so slapdash made me immediately think the Concord sale has something to do with it. And apparently it did - they declined the use. You have to think Phil sold his publishing, his masters, his writer royalties and his performer royalties to Concord. He literally no longer has a say on how his music is used. Even for a documentary about him, with Phil in it and Nic co-producer.
I agree, but it's REALLY hard to get cleared music that can be used on UA-cam. It's a nightmare. And if Concord pulled the rug last minute, they wouldn't have a lot of options. In a perfect world, the ideal scenario would be to have someone compose string or piano covers of the songs.
I was disappointed in him saying he wasn't a fan of genesis I know there are certain songs that he's not a fan of and even his solo career but him and Peter always seem they want to distance themselves from the band and I always stick up for the group I'm like guys this is where your bread got buttered first and allowed you to be where you are today
I think you took it the wrong way.... I think Phil should have said it better. He likes a lot of Genesis music, but some stuff he doesn't. Whilst interviews done by Tony banks is that he is proud of everything.... In my opinion Tony / Mike were the real Heart of Genesis - Not Phil
@@debbiekelley7899 Phil has said this before about certain albums of Genesis past... He never understood or got the idea about the lamb lies down on Broadway....he wasn't a fan.....That's Phil being honest.... Nothing that should upset you... I don't like then there were three album... But overall I love Genesis...even if they have a few duff albums....and remember Phil left Genesis after We Can't Dance.... So he didn't love it that much anymore.
Thanks for watching!
Thanks for making it Brandon! Would love to have you on for a quick interview to hear a bit more of the process!
I think you hit on an important realization us fan(atic)s must understand. Our heroes record something and don't often think about it or listen to it again. Yes, they have created a world through their music - but only we live in it.
Silly
Yah it's so crazy to think about that.
I watched the documentary yesterday and actually told my wife afterwards the same kind of thing. When Phil said “It was 1975 after all” (or something similar) associated with Wind and Wuthering, my brain immediately replied ‘No it was 1977’. But yes these are just quibbles. I think it’s a naivety on my part to assume that Phil enjoys (or has even thought about) the same Genesis songs as much as I do. For example, I just want Phil to like Down and Out😊.
Its like what Phil has said about his 80 and 90's ubiquity " People have to remember , I only wrote and recorded those songs ONCE". What happens after that is out of his control.
@@lagrega "For example, I just want Phil to like Down and Out"
Even moreso than seeing Phil in the physical state that he's in which is effing heartbreaking especially when you can just pull up a youtube clip of him even in the 2000's when he was still so healthy and robust ( not only playing but just in interview clips ) , hearing him say that about Down and Out which is such a monsterfuck of drumming excellence, hurt me the most .
I'm not ashamed to say that four minutes into it, I choked up. His playing to me is undeniable and he easily sits on my Mt. Rushmore of influences. My favorite all-around musician. Ever!
Very moving!
What's so great and special about Genesis is, you get to hear Phil's great running on the albums and then when they play live, they literally sound even better and you have Chesters amazing drumming and also Phils in part ... No band can do what Genesis did. Always underrated far too much.
Totally agree 100%. Cheers.
What I loved about the documentary was that Phil hasn't lost his sense of humour (despite everything that's happened to him physically). The sad part was the lack of interview with Chester Thompson (& even Bill Bruford) as historically, he had the best perspective on Phil as a drummer (+ seeing inside Phil's drum parts).
Yeah, you can tell from the Genesis doc ten years ago that Chester was like 'ok, I've said all I'm going to say' and Bill was probably 'what ANOTHER doc, how come nobody cares about MY career:)' Even Simon Phillips only really added "oh genesis asked me to join'. What, you've got nothing about his drumming?
@@mikearchibald744This doc wasn't about them...
@@396Cap I think the point was that some people 'closer' to Phil could have been included.
@@mikearchibald744 true enough.
I think Phil will always have his sense of humor
Great review. Very insightful.
I loved the documentary. And I liked your analyses Scott. That completed the impact. Thank you.
Ii watched the documentary and really enjoyed it. It great to listen to Phil talk about his history. I appreciate the clips of drummers from other bands tell how Phil Collins talent influenced them. In the beginning,, it is younger drummers speaking about Phil. As the interview progresses, drummers of Phil generation said they were influenced by him. He started as drummer, then singer, songwriter, producer. Phil talent is amazing.
So sad to see my hero like that.
I saw him at the last concert in Toronto. Drew tears.
Phil, you'll be in my heart now and forevermore.
Trust God for you salvation. He loves you and gave you many gifts.
I want to see you drumming in Heaven.
God Bless you, the Artful Dodger.
Gonna keep it short: I really enjoyed it! 😊 Great way to pay tribute to Phil and everything he created during his legendary career in music.
Well said!
Yes the fill is on Los Endos on Seconds Out around 5 minutes in. I remember it now I listen back and always thought In The Air Tonight when I heard it. Now I'm going to have to listen to the rest of Seconds Out again.
5:07 to be exact. Fascinating!
Born in 1989 and now I am mostly into metal. I like some 80s music (including Phil Collins) but never really got fully stuck in. Something I love is music history from the 60/70/80s period because it was before my time. While watching this doc, I kept pausing it to go listen to songs from the album they were talking about. It actually took me two evenings of watching to get through it all. By the end, I had ended up with a solid 12/13 tracks which I have no had on a playlists and can NOT stop listening to. I always knew these songs from my childhood, but now I'm learning the words and all the intricacies of the songs. And learning about the story of Phil makes it even more special. Jesus He Knew Me and Turn It On again are stand outs. I never knew Genesis were a prog band, and it's amazing to hear the transition of their sound. Good or bad, I am SO glad I found this doc!
I too love this "Drummer First" documentary. And same as you was not realizing the scope of it. It was announced in 11/ 2022 as a trip to Switzerland castle with Nic to sit w Phil. 2 of the 3 day scheduled "interview" was with Phil, the 3rd with Nic only. Then Nic came back and those videos where Nic went through the songs with Brandon, they had just gotten back from that trip. Nic mentioned how he learned on that trip that he'd been playing it wrong.
Your theories are correct about Concord. The founder of Drumeo, Jared Falk, replied to a comment on their Twitter post:
"Concord Music, the rights holder for Phil Collins and Genesis recordings, has declined to participate in this documentary and has not granted Drumeo permission to feature any music or past video footage of Phil Collins or Genesis. As a result, we have explored alternative ways to tell Phil’s story and present the narrative without their involvement."
It is BEAUTIFULLY put together. The guest musicians must have taken some time to schedule, edit, etc. My husband, also a drummer of over 55 years, recognized, Dom Famularo right away. A respected drum instructor and has attended drum clinics he's led. Famularo passed away just over a year ago. So we know the guest commentary was planned.
I felt like this documentary was Phil passing on the baton to Nic. That's the overall impression I got from watching the premiere and then my own re-watch. Which is a great thing for Phil's legacy. However, now that I've seen Jared's comments about Concord restrictions and listening to you, I need to watch again and maybe reassess.
The many scenes with Phil handling, looking at, holding his sticks I think was heartbreaking for him and me as well. Something he loved so much, dedicated himself to, sacrificed for, that catapulted his life into mega 🌟, he can no longer enjoy. 🥺
However, this showed us that even though he's physically changed, he's the same sharp, funny, humble, beautiful man we ❤
I hope this helps his chances with the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame to #getphilvotedin too!
😁
😎🙌👍
I'm glad you enjoyed it ❤ but I'm surprised it even got the go ahead without having any permissions in place to use Genesis/ Phils Music. Would you watch a documentary celebrating Diego Maradona with no actual football footage and someone recreating them because they can't show the actual goals..... You just wouldn't go ahead with the documentary...
@@BigALuk33The sale came after the footage was filmed, at great expense. They wouldn't just want to end up throwing it all away (no pun intended).
Concord now has full control (they even are getting his writer and performer royalties) of the catalog. Even if Phil called them and said let them use it, they legally can tell him "No".
I would love to see a Master Class done with nick and phil just explaining his works over the years ( I mean all of it) player,singer,producer...I mean ALL OF IT !!!
I agree, the parts with Nick and Phil were the best part! I would hazard a guess that Nick probably learned a lot about his Dad during the sit-down interview portions. I'm flying to to Wales to see Mick + the Mechanics on April 9th, so pleased to hear Nick will be drumming on the tour!
Loved the documentary and it merits a rewatch. The music rights issue does hamper it some as it would great to hear the actual drum bits they talk about especially with the older Genesis songs. Any Phil content is much appreciated and he deserves his flowers for his innovation in drumming. Last point, you were so right in pointing as fans we can get bummed out when we hear any of the guys in the band sound like they are not fans of certain albums or periods of time in the band’s history.
Seeing Phil in this physical condition is heartbreaking. He's the youngest member of Genesis and here he's looking older than the mask Peter used to wear to close out The Musical Box.
Botched back surgery will do that. Such an unfortunate experience for Phil. Constant pain can be very draining.
I enjoyed hearing Phil's anecdote about the stage malfunctioning during "The Trip into to Light Tour" and him having to play the famous "In The Air Tonight" fill under the stage. I would've loved to have been old enough to have attended that tour. If "Live and Loose in Paris" was any indication, it was a truly epic run of shows.
I gotta think that was "FFFT" in 2004 and not Dance tour... I didn't think the Dance tour had the kit rise up, but the Final Farewell did.
@@EverythingPhilCollins Phil specifically said it was the "Dance into the Light," tour. I remember seeing it on UA-cam at some point in recent years. The "Final Farewell" shows looked awesome as well!
It was the dance tour, he said in the farewell doc that this one would be too high to jump from @@EverythingPhilCollins
I loved the documentary!!!! I thought it was phenomenal!!! It’s one of my new favorite videos of all time!!!!! Plus it’s about drums!!! And I am a sucker for drums and all things percussion!!!!
Only got one thing to say. I love Phil Collins.
Scott, OM Goodness. I am not a drumeo member however if I could play the drums I would but I can’t because of limitations that I have. But besides the point, I am so glad this Documentary is now out there for me to enjoy. Yes I am a Phil Collins Nerd. It does not matter to me in what situation Phil Collins is in. This Documentary was DEFINITELY worth the wait. I am sick and tired of People putting Phil Collins down as a nobody. He is without a Doubt the most UNDERRATED Drummer around. Mike Portnoy said it best with that Statement. I have more to say at a later time.
Well said friend!
If Nic set up a tribute band (with Nic on drums of course) I'd go see it anywhere, anytime! I wonder if the Genesis comments are really about his role in the group. For a long time he was essentially a hired hand. Tony and Mike were the driving force in his mind I think. He said something about drumming after becoming the singer and how he lashed out a bit with the drums and that he couldn't play that way again. I think that is very understandable and just makes him even more accessible. Cheers, Ian
I enjoyed it!
Me too!
@EverythingPhilCollins We know more about Phil Collins than Phil Collins! 🤣 That's hilarious.
Los endos squonk reprise at the end of the song is the origin of the fill in the air tonight...
At the end of Los Endos? Or Squonk?
Yes, it’s at about 4:21 in the Seconds Out version of Los Endos, at least in the version I have. Actually a normal drum fill and what can be called a “top and bottom” warm-up exercise for drummers; it’s more the way it was used in In The Air Tonight to break tension that was innovative
Correct. On Los Endos from Seconds Out (on Spotify) it’s around 5:07
Yep! So incredible!
It made me quite emotional seeing Phil sitting behind the drums with his cheeky smile - knowing full well it's a pipedream. The highlight sure is the relation between Nic and Phil.
It made me extra sad to see Sir Elton John that same evening doing interviews on American Late Night shows, at the age of 76 and promising new music and having recently made a hit with Dua Lipa. (Elton basically said he wasn't too much a fan of his own music either)
The fill was used before in live show I have on my playlist
Apparently Phil Collins and Chester don't speak after a fall out a few years ago. Tony Banks seems to have interviewed a lot on UA-cam by different people so maybe you might be able to interview Tony as he seems open to interviews with some fans. I saw Genesis at Knebworth 1992 here in England 🇬🇧
So did I
They dont speak but Chester has done interviews about Phils drumming, and pretty favourable ones. These guys have done a fair bit of docs and the 'this is your life' so Tony is likely "look, anything to be said I've said it a dozen times".
@@mattk5020 sad that they don't speak, I'm surprised by Phil to be honest.... would have thought he would have apologised....
Why did They fall out ?
@@RonnieMcNairney The story is that it was when Phil was in his alcoholic stage and he reemed out Chester on stage in front of everybody for something.
People should keep in mind that the Genesis guys and the people who work with them have all said they don't exactly 'hang out' with one another.
Darryl Stuermer said that when they did the 2007 tour he hadnt seen anything of them since they had performed together over a decade earlier.
As a big Genesis and PC fan and a learning drummer, I enjoyed the documentary and especially some of the things that I haven't heard before one way or the other (for instance, the In The Air Tonight fill in Seconds Out thing and Simon Philips having been approached to join Genesis).
As for Chester and Bill not being there, I can understand it, since this was about Phil's drumming and Chester and Bill are two respected drummers in their own right who also are of the same generation as Phil, so probably there would have been no point in them celebrating Phil, unlike all the drummers that were in the documentary, who were born after him and influenced by him.
Things that disappointed me a little bit:
1. Too many I don't know's from Phil. Maybe it's because he doesn't remember some of the things the way he used to, or because he has told these stories so many times that he just gets bored repeating them.
2. All these drummers talking about Phil (even though it was nice to see Mike and Chad), they make the documentary a little too busy, it might as well have been 1/2 hour shorter. And all of them doing DA DA BUM DA DA BUM DA DA BUM DA DA BUM DA DA... come on, did we really need that?
3. I'd have appreciated if not only Nick, but also Simon Collins had taken part in the documentary. Phil himself has said in many interviews how a fantastic drummer and musician Simon is, and he really is (in the 90s Phil and Simon did a gig together, in Geneva I think, and it's amazing watching both of them playing drums). It would have been nice to hear some stories from Simon.
It must have been very disappointing for Brandon and Nic to ask questions only to get "I don't know." Not to knock Phil, he's been through a lot and is not in the best of health. But Brandon and Nic were looking forward to hearing definitive answers to questions they worked on probably for a good amount of time. For instance, in the e-book, Brandon really wanted to know about the time signatures to Robbery, Assault, and Battery, only for Phil to say that he didn't remember much about the song.
I hope Trevor lukather and Nick continue to the music of two amazing families as one they could hopefully create some great music… I feel the same way about the doc. I felt the ornery old man, that used to be such a happy bouncing soul and a magician of many things… but I also understand if I was there and didn’t have my super powers still what would a lot of things mean to my life at that point… it’a touchy for sure.
A few of my observations.
- I did find it odd that there was no music, which I figured was a rights thing. But I thought they worked around that pretty well by focusing on the drum part as played by Nick. Kind of like not seeing the shark in Jaws.
- You never really get anything from Phil, but I suppose in talking with his son, he'd bit somewhat more revealing, so I enjoyed that. Phil always seems like a reluctant participant in these things.
- He absolutely played that In the Air Tonight fill other times; it's a semi-regular go-to fill. I dont see that as an issue or anything. He recorded it again a year later for Thru These Walls. Whatever.
- Really no mention of his music beyond Invisible Touch except for Tarzan and the the big band. Not sure I would have needed any focus on those albums, but just something to note.
- I liked seeing Nick marvel at his dad's setup.
- Liberty Devitto is my second-favorite drummer. Cool to see him as a talking head.
- Lastly, this made me think of family dynamics. Was there any mention of Simon? There was a part where in talking to Nick, he references his "oldest daughter" as if Nick didn't know who that would be. Just makes me wonder - but none of my business.
- The "I'm not the biggest Genesis fan" line was pretty frank but did stick with me after I watched this, and kind of in a sad way. I guess he's still a fan. Your observation about being a bigger fan than Phil of his Genesis music is pretty spot on. I feel the same way.
It was an absolutely amazing documentary/interview. I’ll admit at times I was getting choked up just thinking of his greatness.
Also I’m glad Dave Grohl wasn’t a talking head.
Hi ! I am a drummer who has plaid in Genesis tribute bands for 25 years in the UK. Originally from Switzerland. I am now back in Switzerland and the first day that this film was being recorded I was in Vevey a block away from the castle .
Phil Collins is the reason why I play drums . I had the huge honour of being able to rent my drums for a sampling project thst happened at the Genesis Studio The Farm. I had a little jam and this was filmed on a phone . So I hope you enjoy it and remember, it's off the cuff. Feel free to share the video if you like it ! I dig your channel ! So, from one fan to another...
ua-cam.com/video/O54kIW_LVxU/v-deo.htmlsi=N4ZflWKMYxshCNXw
Listen to Phil’s drumming on Dodo off Genesis Abacab.
Amazing!
Dodo is one of my fav tunes… I think the one part sounds like a bob Marley tune is ways, yes. Bob Marley tune ha.
Really enjoyed the documentary, I do hope Phil Collins and Chester make amends though.
Agree!
@@EverythingPhilCollins I would love to get to the bottom of it. The documentary was great. I think you could probably get an interview with Nic Collins as he does interviews and maybe Phil as well. Might be worth pursuing. Saw Genesis in 1992 at Knebworth Park here in England. They were amazing and I've since seen it on UA-cam which is called Genesis 1992 Knebworth.
So glad Drumeo did this, since Netflix's "Count Me In" didn't even mention Phil in their lineup of famous drummers. Kinda disappointed they didn't mention Simon Collins since he is Phil's son and an established singer and drummer as well. I'm also a huge Phil fan and I find it's funny that Nic and Phil talked about Frida's "I Know There's Something Going On", and in my opinion "I See Red" is a far superior drum song. Once you get better at the drums Scott, that's one for you to tackle for sure. As I may have mentioned before on your channel Scott, people need to listen to John Martyn's Glorious Fool LP and Grace and Danger LP, both of which Phil plays drums/piano and sings on!
Hey Scott!! How are you??
Kinda weird that I am watching your review before watching this documentary.
I plan on some fine wine and watching the whole thing tomorrow night. Very excited.
The one thing that instantly triggered my brain was the "In the Air Tonight lick" that was foreshadowed on Seconds Out. I am not a drummer and I am usually wrong about these things but immediately my thought went to Los Endos just before Steve's guitar solo
ua-cam.com/video/jkrLGIhoCaE/v-deo.html @5:07
Great review. Exciting times to be a Phil/Genesis fan.
Yep 100% that's it! Thanks buddy! Can always rely on you!
Hurts me deeply to see my hero Phil Collins struggle.
An uttered tragedy.
Life can be very cruel.
Phil you'll be in my heart, now and forevermore.
God Bless you. He loves you and gave you many gifts. Acknowledge His Son Jesus and believe Him for your salvation.
I want to see you in Heaven drumming.
I’m about a third of the way through the drumeo video. I keep stopping it because it’s hard to watch. My mother recently died of Alzheimer’s and I can’t help but see some of her at the beginning of the illness in how Phil is interacting here. I can definitely understand your sentiment of “I’m a bigger fan of his music than HE IS!” Maybe a better line of questioning for Phil would’ve been to talk about The Who, Billy Cobham, Ringo, people HE probably knows more about than they do!
Anyway, love your channel. And love those roto-toms!
“Chinese Wall is quite a good album.”
Finally! Such an underrated album. Overshadowed by Easy Lover. But the grooves on songs like “Time is a Woman” good god!
I’m feeling better about the doc. I just had to power through my own hang ups. Shame it’s missing actual music, but still very well done.
Phil is self-effacing and self-deprecating in a way that is very common with his British heritage. He often uses sarcasm and humor often to deflect.
This is why these music labels are killing older music. They are so damn greedy that they are screwing themselves. If they put bits of music in this would be a great advertisement and cause many viewers to want to buy this older Genesis, Brand X, Phil, Tarzan, etc etc. music. I'm all for protecting the musicians, song writers, publishers, etc. but by restricting this too much it hurts them. Take for instance a live streamer, they walk by some place playing music and then they get a copy write strike or loose their YT money because they have to pay the publisher of that 10 sec of song. Stupid!
I have watched this documentary three times now and find it interesting on lots of levels. To me, the most interesting parts were the home movies. I would much rather hear about Nic and Phil’s relationship and Nics drumming. I’d love to have seen more home movies. We’ve pretty much heard everything Phi, is ever going to tell us. I did enjoy the ebook though. I play piano, not drums, but found that very nice to have. I’m sad Chester wasn’t interviewed and neither was Simon. It’s obvious that Nic is Phil’s favorite, but Simon must feel awful to be left out. Phil looks so terribly frail for 73. He looks 20 years older. I am sad he said he wasn’t Genesis biggest fan. I don’t think he really meant that. Old people have no filters and just say what they think at the moment. He used to say how much he loved Mike and Tony and that’s why they still played. I did think the photography was beautiful. I’m just glad to have anything new from Phil. I miss him.
My impression going from a clip is he seemed really old and that's the case with a lot of Boomers. If you like Phil Collins check out instrumental versions of RnB from the 90s. It has a similar contemporary pop flare with the 808 cowbell, congas or reverberated snares.
I was a little bit put off when I saw a picture of Earth, wind and fire while they were talking about weather reports so they were showing the wrong band.
I had never heard Phil say he wasn't a fan of Genesis before. Depending on how you take it, it makes sense because maybe he's saying he preferred his solo and Brand X careers more. That makes sense. But I'd hate to think that all that innovation and unconventionality was in any way unpleasurable for him. Because he performed Genesis like a beast. Maybe I took what he said wrong.
Personally and sincerely, I didn’t like it; I found it to be of low production quality. Most of the drummers featured are not very well-known. I don’t mean to diminish their merit, but I feel their inclusion is mostly filler, leveraging Drumeo's resources. If the documentary is about Phil and is produced by drummers, I think Chester's participation is essential. Not including him takes away 50% of its weight. This is without even mentioning Simon Collins-he’s also a drummer and has been playing for many more years than Nic. To me, it’s a very amateur documentary in which Nic, being part of Drumeo, had enough influence to convince his father.
I often think about how much more I seem to care and know about a few artists' careers than these artists themselves. It's a weirdly frustrating thought. Sometimes you can think, you know, "random people I meet must think I kind of have nothing to do with my time and brain to retain so much useless information about, say, Genesis". I'm okay with random people thinking that about me, I don't care. But it becomes a little hurtful (?) when you sort of realize that the artist you are a fan of might kind of feel the same way in a way? I'm not saying Phil *actually* thinks we're idiots for caring this much, but the unsettling feeling we get at Phil and Nic not knowing a basic piece of information about Genesis, I wouldn't be surprised if it had a little to do with a weird insecurity about being a geek/fan of anything. I dunno. I'm not sure how to word what I'm trying to say properly!
Also, sometimes I feel like these artists overplay their "I don't really care" attitude towards their old stuff, maybe as a sort of defense mechanism against the fact that they might still be praised more for things they did as teenagers/young adults than anything they did after. I've seen Phil, in other interviews, pull out facts and things from the past that made me think "wait, he DOES remember a lot more than he lets on". His autobiography certainly says so. I mean I'm talking about Phil here but this applies to a lot of older artists...
Outstanding, insightful, and wildly interesting documentary. Also made me very sad, because Phil is clearly not physically well. I don’t know what has been happening these past years, but he looks as if he’s dying.
I think the fill your referring to is from zappa live at the roxy, where Chester plays a fill like that ish… maybe I’m remembering wrong.
a lot of good comments/points already made, but i'll add to it. yes, for all of the time they put into it, it could have been better. kind of sad, i guess because of youth, these guys just didn't know some things about 'the subject matter'... as you said, you and other fans, knew more than these guys. and phil has done so many things, and... the years have been hard... i'm just glad he can think straight these days, and to ask him to remember things... but he also has a bad attitude about his past, it would seem. as you said, this is the crux of it. if you tell him it's a documentary about all of the music he made... and he doesn't really want to put much effort into it/doesn't really seem to want to talk about it.... i think, in the end, while it is entertaining even for hard core fans, it is fundamentally flawed - they could have done so much better if he had been a willing/eager participant.
Yeah I'm not sure WHY this is, there is nothing new here and you can tell the drummers are just like "hey, do like the guys did in the RUSH documentary". It almost seems more for the drum channel and Nic, which is just fine. There is almost no point in even TALKING about drumming after 1983, so its weird in a doc about Phil 'as a drummer' that theyd go on and rub it in his face that "here is where he became a singer". Granted I fast forwarded a bit, but they didn't even mention the number of times he was 'drummer of the year' by modern drummer, heck, its even Chester Thompson that talks about that.
You know what happend to the Nic Collins' video you talked about in the begining? It's private now
It's a shame that Chester wasn't really mentioned...
There was a long section where they mentioned how great Chester was.
Phil is probably just tired of it. After you've played something 10,000 times, you're kind of done with it.
Fair point!
That's why he changed up the songs a bit during the various tours. There's like four versions of I Missed Again.
From a composing and orchestral perspective, Phil Collins is THE BEST! Untouchable!
Criminally Underrated!
Not everyone likes verse verse chorus, ballads, and his voice. "Untouchable" isn't true. There are many good composers.
Edit: Aaaaand, he's not underrated either. Especially not criminally underrated. Weird comment.
PHIL IS STILL SITTING ON THE PIANO??? Wow, then hope for new music isn't fully dead
The doc taught us nothing and really didn't explore Collins' drumming (and completely absent of the use of actual recordings to do so). When you talk about a PC drum part, it isn't really sufficient to have NC play it. It was shallow, ans as much about him as a singer as it was anything else. Very disappointing I thought.
I got halfway through the documentary and just stopped as it was frustrating me so much. The fact that no music or video of Phil playing wasn't used is ridiculous and after looking at the video's description they say right at the bottom about Concord Music refusing to give permission for any content to be used. Your suspicions are correct on that front. It's a crazy situation. The documentary is not complete without it. If it was me, I wouldn't have released it as it is. There's no point as far as I'm concerned. Wait to get permission or crowd fund the money if required. Surely 4 million subscribers could come up with the cash.
Good eye! I just saw that now... Concord seems to have been a bit of a roadblock. Sad.
"They're not really interested in their own art."
Are you serious?
"I've listened to Phil Collins and Genesis music probably 1000 times more than Phil's ever listened to his own album" (21:00). "There's no doubt in my mind."
I beg to disagree.
Your channel is great and your content is shot well, good mic, etc. But watch out for deciding that you know something better than others, especially the creators of the magic that you are building upon. I really like all the work you're putting out there, but be careful and be humble, please. Otherwise you're just fishing for the biggest fish instead of having fun and entertaining us. (Both of which grow a channel, but one has a longer shelf life.) Keep up the good (and right) work.
And regarding the context of the comments that you made ... he's had a long life! Lots of stuff. Lots of details. If he didn't remember something suddenly asked to him, so what? It doesn't mean he's dismissive of his past. Let's simply celebrate what he has made for us and brought to us.
There are a lot of band members who don't appreciate their own bands. Not sure why. Perhaps a "modesty" thing. With Phils sense of humour, could it have been tongue-in-cheek? No matter, I'm a huge Phil and Genesis fanatic.😊
Yeah I found the ‘not a fan’ comments sad (but honest and that’s appreciated above all else) but something tells me it’s physically impossible to spend 50 years in a band and not be a fan. Maybe it was awkward phrasing for saying he was tired after playing everything 10,000 times.
Phil Collins never liked progressive, he was more into jazz, funk, big band, yes he brought the "Phenix Horns" to Genesis and collaborated with Philip Bailey of EWF and to end his career he made an album of soul, funk, Motown covers called "Going Back", we shouldn't be surprised, and with that taste he enriched Genesis
I enjoyed it. Initially, I was going to turn it off after the first 5-odd minutes, because Phil looked so, so frail and old, and was barely responding to the questions. Then it got better, he became more animated, and more responsive. The video could have been dramatically improved if they incorporated more footage of Phil drumming back in the day, accompanied by other musicians (Genesis, his solo tours, Brand X etc.) Having Nick play Phil's drums, while interesting, wasn't particularly what I wanted to watch. And the drumming, without context, loses a tremendous amount. Overall, the documentary was good, but could have been much, much better.
Maybe he doesn't want to talk about it... because he no longer can do it.
That's a good point!
Exactly, it's just a reminder that he can't do the thing he loves.
👍😄
Come to think of it, why was there no mention of Phil working with Ricky Lawson from 1994 to 1997... that was very poor on behalf of the documentary "research".
Interesting. I think there was just so much ground to cover in Phil's career.
Found it interesting Simon wasn’t included.
Simon is pushing 50 and probably tired of talking about his dad.
True. But his perspective would have been interesting
Interesting point!
Questo è solo l'inizio......Phil ha vissuto molte vite in parallelo sia artistiche che umane.....troppo da capire per noi esseri umani.....in molti non lo hanno capito e quello che non capiamo spesso ci impaurisce.....la reazione è la critica......e Phil è stato sempre il bersaglio preferito dai critici.....dopo la sua "partenza" gli stessi che lo hanno distrutto lo celebreranno.....diranno che era un genio e saremo sommersi di pubblicazioni.....brutta cosa l'ipocrisia....
Oh, yes. The same critics who championed punk’s effort to make the pretentiousness of prog-era Genesis extinct or Oasis while Noel Gallagher was personally badmouthing Collins at every opportunity will miraculously turn out to have been Phil fans all along. The same tabloids that claimed he divorced his wife by fax (false) or voted Tory (false) or ran to Switzerland to avoid taxes and/or because Blair was elected (false) will lay it on something terrible about what a great guy he was and how his music was universally loved.
Yes it WAS the end of Los Endos....
I was disappointed to hear that Phil feels embarrassed by some of The early GENESIS Tracks.
From The Gabriel Years.
I have to admit it did break my heart when Phil said he's "not Genesis's biggest fan". Too much of a blanket statement, I know he's proud of a lot of the music. About the video as a whole, it was a treat of course but I also felt it was quite disjointed at times. I could tell sometimes that comments about something else had been edited in at strange moments. There was obviously an amazing thread of conversation with Phil and Nic that got a bit lost in the weeds. Very pleased to hear that some raw footage will be put out in the future.
When looking back at what he has done with a group he has been part of for nearly 50 years, there must be numerous things he wishes hadn’t happened or regrets to some extent. He might even feel the same way about his own career. I got the impression that he speaks this way because he is not someone who fully admires all the work he has done. For instance, Tony Banks’ favorite album is “Duke,” but if we were to ask Collins, he might choose a different one. Based on the impression he gave during this two-hour interview, it seems he would have preferred to remain solely a drummer in Genesis. That said, he is aware of the significant impact they had on music and how they dominated the music industry. However, instead of taking pride in it, he humbly chooses to say, “I was a lucky man.”
I think it became disjointed once the sale to Concord happened and they declined letting them use any of the songs. Now they cannot play what they are talking about.
That sale came at a bad time for them.
I can't believe how frail Phil looks. Got the physique of a 95 year old. 😢
I liked the documentary but again like all other Genesis / Phil Documentaries it didn't go far enough. Too much time spent on the prog days then the middle period was then jumped and we were on Tarzan. Far too much time was spent on the in the air tonight fill.... Phil has said it was a noose around his neck .... It started irritated me... Phil's drumming is soon much more than in the air tonight. The issue with music rights also ruined it for me.... Nick is a great drummer but he isn't phil....and the whole idea of the documentary was to celebrate Phil's Drumming... Not Nic doing a copy of what Phil did cause they couldn't get the rights to any concerts etc. Was touching to see Phil behind the kit again but also I could see 50 years of drumming had ruined him physically and mentally....when Phil said " That's enough of that ' you could sense that drumming had left him, do Phil has no interest in doing it again....almost like a divorce... And if the drumming came back to him he would give it another go... Again a bit like his third wife. I enjoyed it ( in parts) but it could have been so much better.😢
A LIFE LESS ORDINARY (2002) documentary and the CLASSIC ALBUMS FACE VALUE (1999) documentary are better IMO
Your realisation at the end that we know more and care more than Phil and Nic (and Drumeo I suspect) is an epiphany !! To be honest I was disappointed with the doc for all the reasons you state here. I was touched by Nic and Phil's relationship but I didn't feel I learnt much that I didn't know already and the constant lame use of punditry to play the In The Air Tonight fill became nauseating. All but a handful of the pundits seemed to just be paying lip service to the guy, most didn't seem to really understand or rate him. There was so little about his peak 75' to '80 drumming period, no real 'drum talk' other than a few nuggets. I wasn't surprised as he's never been one for talking about his playing, even when he was younger. Reading his autobiog it's clear he was at times even a bit insecure about it which is such a shame. The obvious problem with the copyrights and those tossers at Concorde or whoever it is was owns the back catalogue was the straw that broke the camels back. There was so little context for people who maybe didn't know the back catalogue other than Nick valiantly trying to play some of the parts which, and I mean no disrespect to him, he doesn't play like his dad and neither should he. He's solid for sure and I'm sure there's a career out there for him as a player but this mimicking your dad thing has become a bit of an albatross if you ask me. I do respect Drumeo for giving it their best shot. Hope I don't sound like an ungrateful tosser myself😳
@@christianparsons6050 spot on, I couldn't have said it better myself....you definitely ain't a tosser
Interestingly, Phil's older son Simon actually DOES play just like Phil. Like, spookily so. I saw him drumming with Sound Of Contact and he is the only other drummer I've seen that has that effortless ability to start his drumsticks miles away from the skins and yet still generate that speed and power.
@@christianparsons6050 I wonder deep down if it annoys Simon that Nic is the one who got to play in Phil's band and Genesis? I know Simon is a huge fan of Genesis from previous interviews
@@BigALuk33Good to know I'm not a tosser😆 Yes I wondered what Simon's feelings were with the whole thing. Maybe he didn't want it, happy doing his own thing...I thought it was strange how Phil didn't really give Nic much tuition other than a few pointers, I'd have thought he would have been keen to educate him more on technique or get him a really good teacher to develop his own style more. But hey that's just me...
@@markgolland5717I heard the engineer from the Band-aid "do they know it's Christmas" single (excellent doc on the making of it on bbc and ytube) talking about Phil and what a lovely bloke he was. Also how 'Pud' his tech came in early to set up the kit and do a preliminary sound check. They watched as Pud hit each drum from about a metre back like he was wielding a hammer at the fair. Then when Phil played the levels were still too high even though he didn't appear to be exerting himself😅 That's part of his sound that I never really understood until recent years, he hits them bloody hard!
At least they didn’t ask Lars a single fuckin question 😂
:)
Didn't need all the other people constantly going on about ITAT over & over the whole show.
Poorly done ... mostly for ego purposes
Had the feeling they asked any drummer associated with Drumeo about Phil. Some where true fans and actually showed albums they had etc, others just knew Phil by the in the air tonight drum fill....these drummers should have been rejected.... I got irritated by the constant obsession with In the air tonight.....Even Phil used to joke I'm gonna play that F**king song again. Phil's drumming was so much more than ITAT
Bang average imo
I think it's hard to make a doc like this when you're trying to entertain fans like us, while also educate folks who aren't familiar with his work. Very hard to please all audiences.
A good documentary but it has its flaws, there are issues with chronology, the photo credits (wrong and suspicious). The documentary makers could have approached a few fans/collectors who have interesting items, which would have been useful in the documentary. It certainly was not perfect. Nice to see Nic again.
Dude you talk too much hate this
Thanks for the feedback Justin!
Watching you talking doesn't help
Thanks for watching Justin!
It helped me!
The background music.
Not the fills Nic played
Was distracting as hell
Hearing the background music that was obviously done so slapdash made me immediately think the Concord sale has something to do with it. And apparently it did - they declined the use.
You have to think Phil sold his publishing, his masters, his writer royalties and his performer royalties to Concord. He literally no longer has a say on how his music is used.
Even for a documentary about him, with Phil in it and Nic co-producer.
I agree, but it's REALLY hard to get cleared music that can be used on UA-cam. It's a nightmare. And if Concord pulled the rug last minute, they wouldn't have a lot of options. In a perfect world, the ideal scenario would be to have someone compose string or piano covers of the songs.
@EverythingPhilCollins Concord did pull the rug. Jared from Drumeo confirmed it on Twitter.
I was disappointed in him saying he wasn't a fan of genesis I know there are certain songs that he's not a fan of and even his solo career but him and Peter always seem they want to distance themselves from the band and I always stick up for the group I'm like guys this is where your bread got buttered first and allowed you to be where you are today
I think you took it the wrong way.... I think Phil should have said it better. He likes a lot of Genesis music, but some stuff he doesn't. Whilst interviews done by Tony banks is that he is proud of everything.... In my opinion Tony / Mike were the real Heart of Genesis - Not Phil
If you listen properly what said was he was not keen on a certain period of genesis.
@@davepage6428it's exactly what he said even Scott said it in this video if you would listen properly
@@BigALuk33I didn't take anything wrong it's what he said even Scott said it in this video
@@debbiekelley7899 Phil has said this before about certain albums of Genesis past... He never understood or got the idea about the lamb lies down on Broadway....he wasn't a fan.....That's Phil being honest.... Nothing that should upset you... I don't like then there were three album... But overall I love Genesis...even if they have a few duff albums....and remember Phil left Genesis after We Can't Dance.... So he didn't love it that much anymore.