Me and some friends used to play SA2B a loooot as teens. One night while playin' the multiplayer I jumped off the edge while grinding a rail at the start. Then shouted "BATMAN" for some reason. Probably sleep deprivation. I feel for a while but ended up landed on a rail near the end, and won. From that moment on we'd try and find spots to cut out parts of the level during multiplayer, speedrun style. And called it Batmaning haha.
I can unfortunately confirm that jumping off the rails is usually SLOWER! I tried this maneuver a lot as a kid with my brother, on Pumpkin Hill and Crazy Gadget rail racing. There are several spots you can just fall and still land on rails, but if the other player just holds B while grinding they'll always catch up to you before you land.
@@Atylonisus Aye if we pulled it off while trying to race it usually looked like it was faster but most of the time it wasn't. When it worked and you got the win after though it felt pretty great. By that point years after the game released I think we were just pumped to find a different way to play haha. Went from "Who can win the race" to "Who can pull off the longest Batman".
The more I watch Sonic Adventure 1/2 retrospectives, the more it feels like I was the only person who actually liked the shooting and Treasure Hunting stages.
they were really solid levels, specially in 2 imo, its just that its obvius the majority of exploration and replayability comes from the running stages, but i myself love revisiting all levels with powerups just to discover new shie
Yeah, definitely one of the more archaic feeling parts of the game. It works, but having functions "compete" like that also results in a lot of headaches, like with the light speed dash vs bounce attack I think moving to a "three button" system for SA2 would have been a good compromise. Spindashing and similar "default" things can still be mapped to X/B, but Y button would be where functions that cant possibly overlap with one another could live. For example, Mystic Melody and Light Speed Dash are triggered by environment context, meaning there is almoat zero risk of the player doing one when they meant the other
It's crazy that Balan Wonderworld carries on with that design philosophy 20 years later, and it's even more egregious in that game compared to Sonic. All buttons are mapped to jump/costume ability, and having a costume ability means you cannot jump (unless the costume ability happens to be jump-like). Doesn't help that it's already so slow and limited in movement options.
This is an urban legend most likely stemming from GC release of Sonic Adventure. I completed SADX for PC (yes I know that it was based on GC port) and played a fair amout of SA2 on Dreamcast. I think I fell through the floor like once, as Amy, on the Egg Carrier.
@@kuklama0706 I've of played the entire franchise no exceptions, all mainline titles 4-5 times each. Only games I've ever fallen through floors in were SA, Heroes, S4:EP1, Colors, Lost World, Frontiers and Superstars. Not THAT bad all things considered lol.
I suppose it depends how far out in to space the stage is set. I figure most would mean atmosphere as "breathable" which was the implied meaning of my joke. I'm not sure the boundaries of the stratosphere and troposphere and such. I understand they're quite far out of this world though
This is the best breakdown I've seen on what makes Sonic Adventure 2 feel like nothing else, a high bar considering just how many videos this game has about it. Outstanding work.
I really really agree with what you said about Sonic-inspired games and the wide-open environments in them. They're fun to run through and launch yourself around, but nothing ever could quite compare to the tight, focused design of the Adventure games that force you to microadjust every movement and think on the fly. They don't forget that they're platformers and aren't afraid to have small, unique challenges you can only find in a platforming game. I really hope to find another game one day that captures the same kind of feel. (The thumbnail with the half-tone magazine look is sick btw!)
Yeah, I think for a Sonic style game the 'wide-open environment' should just be for a hub world/training ground and you jump into portals or something to enter the levels that have that very tight and focused design to them.
My personal example is the smash series. Smash Ultimate is a nice game but competitively, it just feels very sterile. Everything is so streamlined that I feel I can't go outside the dev's intended box when it comes to player expression.
@@heldon7951 also that sounds like a staple of the gamecube era, games were kind of wank, but that made them great in a weird way. Mario Sunshine, Smash Melee, Adventure 2
Btw, the treasure hunting and shooting gallery stages are designed as score attacks as well, by finding treasure quickly with few hints and locking on to as high as 11 enemies at once and getting high combo points while finishing the stage quickly. All stage types are essentially score attacks though you probably knew this. Just saying since you seemed to think less of them. Treating them as score attacks and going for the A ranks is how I found the most fun in them. They all share the same design philosophy in learning the level layout, treasure locations, enemy spawns, (including golden beetles), not dying, and replaying to get better. Shame most don’t realise this and they don’t try to play optimally, which leads people to suck at stages and dislike them without properly trying, though I know they’re not flawless by any stretch.
@@dashi-musashi351 Nah I totally get it but they just don't feel as well paced and thought out as the speed levels were, not a hater of the other levels at all or anything , thanks for commenting!
The score aspect has been almost forgotten. I see that many people don’t worry about the score, just the speed. It a shame. I love getting a big score doing things other than getting to the goal as fast as possible. Frontiers didn’t have a score system, and Shadow Generations’ score is based on time anyway.
Maybe if the score wasn't useless, people would care about it. Rayman 3 is one of the very few games where I took the scoring system seriously because it unlocks minigames.
@@envyLP333 A 3D recreation of Green Hill Act 1 in unlocked as a stage for Sonic after getting all 180 emblems, which requires among other things A ranking every mission.
I'm 25 turning 26 soon and a big Sonic fan though out of all the games SA2 is the one I return to the most after 20 something years for pretty much the reasons you put here. Glad to see a kindred spirit and very glad to see a topic on SA2 I haven't really seen discussed before. Got a like and a sub from me dude. Stay safe and have a good day!
You know what you should check out. Check out the super hard mode mod for sa2 on PC its super fun and makes the speedstages and really the rest of the levels in the game a lot more fleshed out and fun. Also i would suggest checking out the full story sa2 mod. Which makes the story a lot better@@thecamobot
that little part in radical highway you were talking about needing a acid drop is the best part in the entire game. I mean respect the heck out of sky rail and final rush but damn bro that little tunnel on radical highway is peak.
Glad to see more positive videos on SA2 these days! Felt like people were really down on the game for a while. This is my favorite Sonic game and I've really enjoyed the time spent with it. Raising the chao was a fun side game and I have so many memories of playing this game with friends! The adventure games do have a charm to them that modern 3D sonic doesn't quite get.
heroes has some of the coolest uses of the lightspeed dash imo. Also I was today years old when i learned that holding the jump button makes the homing attack popup higher
I came back to SA2 as an adult and it has been the greatest experience I’ve had playing a game. I got addicted to score attacks and especially score attacking final rush. I’ve gotten to 27000 points after spending who knows how long learning the level lol
As someone who only has played bits and pieces of SA2, I was completely unaware that the game had this much depth. I really like when levels have multiple paths aimed at different skill levels.
I think the reason why Sonic Adventure 2's speed stages are so addictive and replayable is because it triggers the same effect in your brain as a driving game would, it's highly replayable because you LEARN the stage more and more each time you play it and figure out the quickest way to beat it.
I've found it really hard to tap into Sonic games past SA2, and never really had the words to explain why. I'm thankful to find someone who said it better than I ever could!
Best Sonic game ever. I just wish they had a bit of more resources and enrich the game with more stuff, like the hub worlds from the original SA. Basically, when your only complain for the game is "I want more", it's probably a very good game.
While I also want hub worlds for this game (ESPECIALLY the ARK) I can understand why they didn't do it, this game's map is way to big, the city alone would probably be the size of station square, the mystic ruins and the egg carrier combined. It would be hard to traverse the large city, the isolated Prison Island and it's forest, the canyons, the desert and especially the ARK which just like the city would probably be way bigger than all the SA1 hub worlds combined.
I grew up with the Gamecube, so when I later went back and played the Dreamcast version, I was surprised just how many things were better there. Inparticular, the Hero and Dark chao gardens are way better there. Why did we have to lose that?!? The only reason I can think for the change, was maybe it was too hard to find chao in those complex gardens? (And also stopping players from drowning Tails, lol)
@@Protofall wait, were the gardens bigger in Dreamcast version than in PC version? I'm on PC now and the hero garden here is pretty minimal. I don't even see the reason in moving my chao there, aside from the more nutritious palm fruits.
Sonic Adventure 2 rails felt like the natural continuation of the Genesis game rolling physics: you can't build up speed on your own anymore, but you can STORE speed much better on rails, thus allowing you to reach areas you never could otherwise
Spark the Electric Jester 2 & 3 did the Sonic Adventure 2 formula really well. Though I can understand why some might not like it as both titles veer closer to Heroes/Shadow style gameplay by the midway point. Not sure if you disliked Spark, but do give it a second chance as there's a lot to like about those two games.
Give Penny's Big Breakaway a try. It has a lot of skill expression, tight level design that still allows for large skips with enough player skill to build up the speed, and do the jumps correctly to make it long distances, while still making level design something you need to consider at all times while playing.
This whole time, I was hoping he would make a special mention to Penny's, because it is the only Sonic-inspired game that has given me a similar experience to the Adventure games. Such a wonderful time.
Penny is a broadly similar type of game, but it seems like he's looking for something more like a straight clone of SA2. While obviously Sonic Team-inspired, Penny is really it's own thing and I feel like it's mechanically more reminiscent of Billy Hatcher if anything.
Penny's is too disimilar to the adventure games. Totally different art style and vibe. There's no set pieces and there's a lot less speed. What he wanted was an SA2 clone, and tbh so do I.
SA2 is my favorite 3d Sonic game for a lot of reasons. The speed stages in SA2 are just incredible. Every stage in that game is fun, the only one that can be kind of annoying is Crazy Gadget. The ranking system in SA2 is so good and I wish other Sonic games had a ranking system like that.
Incredibly well done video! Not only was the editing and gameplay on point, but everything about player expression and movement in SA2 were my thoughts exactly! Even when it came to implementing more movement options akin to THPS to make moving around in these tightly knit levels even better. Instant sub. : )
Sonic Adventure 2 Battle was so fun and the Chao Garden had a reason for me to keep playing, so I S ranked everything in the game back when I was a kid. No other game has pulled me in that strongly.
I literally came here straight from finishing my nth SA2 playthrough - Sonic Frontiers 1st playthrough. I complained to my sibling for like half an hour about how SA2 had SUCH good rail momentum mechanics and that none of the modern sonic games come close to how fun the running levels were in SA2
SA2 actually kinda has action chains already, just very obfuscated (like everything else). Off top of my head, in White Jungle, if you make it from the start of the stage to the first checkpoint without doing any jumps or somersaults unless they aim at a spring, enemy or are used to duck under a wooden obstacle, you get awarded with trick points when you make it the checkpoint. Cool, Radical, Tight or Awesome depending on how far you made it with those restraints until the checkpoint- acting like a combo of small sections where you alternate between not jumping and jumping once and doing large lengths without touching the ground. This is actually really hard to pull off in the Hard mode version of the stage. Iirc, you also do get more points for balancing properly in the grinding rails- at the end of City Escape, on the triple rail, you get anywhere from 600 to 1500 points (Radical to Extreme) based on how quickly you grinded down the rails. I completely agree with your conclusion about more focus on tricks/action combos and less on speed/huge levels. I think making the stages progressively faster and larger is a "dead end" in terms of gameplay- speed leads to boost auto-play (since it's almost impossible to control something so fast) and large levels always end up empty. The trick system is the solution, in which it allows for player agency, precise and quick reactions (which emulate speed quite well) while also looking stylish.
I always love it when I find a video essay that perfectly encapsulates how I feel on a given subject. You distilled everything I love about Sonic/Shadow's gameplay in SA2 perfectly into words in a way I just couldn't when arguing with people about it in the past.
Normally, I don't leave comments but I really needed to this time. This was an absolutely incredible video! You took my exact thoughts and put them out in a way that makes sense to those who've never played these games before. The magic of the Adventure formula truly cannot be understated and I do wish SEGA would try it again. I'm glad you were able to make such a great video on this topic, because I've been trying for quite some time now and couldn't get the right words for it. I look forward to more content from you :)
I wish they would give Shadow his run animation SA 2 back in all other games! Totally goated and it made you FEEL the speed of using him versus him slowly "skating" or gliding now.
i had a hard time describing in words just why i never really fully got into alot of 3D sonic fan games that claimed it was adventure-inspired but this video really captures what I really wanted sonic games to feel like! Awesome video dude!
Sonic Adventure 2 is probably my second most played childhood game, (first being Pokemon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers of Sky) oh my god I still love this game and the adventure gameplay and replayed it a bunch on Steam too haha It is really is a shame a lot of people write off Sonic instantly these days cause of a few bad games and never giving these a chance :( But I must say you 100% nailed why it is so replayable and I beg of you to try The Big Catch: Tacklebox, been playing that on and off and it is probably the most replayable platformer I have played since SA2.
SA2 controls need fixing, the grinding is amazing on the Dreamcast, but because the controller evolved on newer consoles, but SA2s didn't update the controls, the risk reward for grinding is a lot better on the Dreamcast, people should look this up, it's amazing how people can zip on rails because of the balancing mechanics
@@thecamobot from what I know, modders haven't fixed this, but someone on UA-cam has made a tutorial on how to make it closer, using Steam's controller layout
@@thecamobot I just played the mod @sbboard1 talked about, it might have fixed one of your complaints, the flying off the rail, I might have just been lucky, but it did improve the movement by a lot
I also am someone who enjoys Sonic games, but keeps coming back to SA2. There really is so much depth to the mechanics of this game (even if some of it was likely not developer intended). Some of my love is definitely nostalgia as I played the game on release on the first console I owned, the Dreamcast. Even as an adult though, the game still provides me so much joy as I learn more about the game each time I play. The game being endlessly replayable is part of the reason a friend and I created an SA2 randomizer a few years ago. We wanted more reasons to play the game, and a way to play together apart from the built-in 2P stages. We also really wanted to highlight parts of the game that are often ignored since they aren’t essential. Your video did a good job describing many of the aspects of SA2 that we think make it also fun to randomize. Thanks for this great video describing one of the gems from my childhood which I continue to love to this day.
How I can tell I've put a lot of hours into SA2: Hearing *Let's Make it!* Getting looped repeatedly before the climax of the theme was driving me nuts lmao.
Im not a huge sonic fan, but SA2 is one of my childhood favorites. I still play it every once in a while, and i love the insights. Separately, this video is very very well written, recorded, and edited and i just want to say great work. The "sa2 that exists" edit made me pause, like, and subscribe
the point about tightly knit very specifically designed levels in contrast extremely open areas is something I can't help but nod in agreement with. Lots of fangames and spiritual sequels push for exhilarating speed and that has its merits but so much freedom of movement means you aren't pushing for "faster. Faster! do it Better!"
The jankiest mechanics I can remember are the arms of the artificial chaos getting in the way of taking them out, and not wiggling in the correct direction on grinding rails
I love SA2 to bits, but I do agree that I tend to play as 2/6 characters 95% of the time. But there is a time I do enjoy playing one of those 4, Eggman in Cosmic Wall. You combined low gravity with tonnes of targets and it becomes a power trip!
I believe that the Adventure games were the first Sonic games that I ever played. I played SA1 more in my childhood because SA2 was too difficult for my childhood self, though in 2022 I learned that as an adult I can get through all 3 stories of that game, causing me to enjoy it a lot. I've been trying to get my own gaming PC this year and downloading Project-06 into it is one of the main things that I've already been 100% convinced to try to do after I get that PC. I've been trying to get help from people who I know have more knowledge about PCs than I do about how to find the right PC for myself.
i think a big reason why indie projects don't feel as good as sonic is because they're very resistant to take control from the player, but sometimes the player needs the control taken from them for spectacle. Loop de loops in indie titles, when they leave you in control, feel TERRIBLE, but sonic has always done them right by locking the player on a track for them in every 3d game. That combined with the spaces being too open make them feel very empty and oftentimes monotonously boring.
as such, id really only recommend penny's big breakaway for anything similar to what SA2 could offer. It's not as blisteringly fast, but the level design and fluid movement definitely is closer.
That's what's all about. Running through the levels several times and perfecting your run feels so satisfying. That should be a focus and I agree with you that it would resonate with today's crowd
Your Tile is spot on, i've seen my brother replay SA2 multiple times completely starting again and again so he can continuously go after S Rank on new save files.
Growing up with Boost gameplay (UnWiished & Colors), I remember playing Adventure 2 for the first time and thinking "wow, I get it. I get why people like this style". You made me appreciate this formula in a new way.
Excellent video! I grew up playing SA2 as one of my first video games ever and as an adult now I still revisit it. Even watching this video, I’m seeing things and routes I never thought of!
Stage-skipping... one player skipped one stage by only one jump from the start and I was left to wonder asking... "where is the fun in that...? Why would someone skip a level if they love to play it...???"
Because it takes an understanding and comfortability with the level that can only come after hours and hours of experiencing it in full without skipping it. Ideally, anyways. Its like finding a shortcut in mario kart, they're always a little hidden and can be tricky to pull off, so skipping it is an engaging feedback loop in and of itself
Great video! SA2 will always be my favorite Sonic game. You did a great job explaining and the gameplay was top notch especially that long jump in final rush
I really appreciate this love letter to my favourite game childhood game. I am pretty much completely in agreement with what I want from the series/spiritual successors, other than me quite strongly wishing for a new Chao Garden. Thanks for taking the time to nostalgia bomb me today, my "Perfect!" tattoo is practically glowing :)
preachin to the choir my man; this video was music to my ear holes. i feel i've been waiting forever for someone to correctly put into words how i feel about this specific gameplay style and how it differs from the other 3d entries in the series. for as happy as i wanted to be about sonic mania, i'm still waiting on the day us adventure truthers will be fed the same. also, thank you for mentioning the wii variety of unleashed. because that is also a specific gameplay style i'm praying gets its dues someday
Shoutout SSX3. I feel like people only remember Tricky, but SSX3 reminds me of SA2 when it comes to how the scope & vibe of the games outshine the jank they may have had 10 fold.
And the thing is that most people focus only on the physics of the character, when it is also important for a level design to have more things than just a straight line to run.
This was a solid video! While I personally love the boost formula at its best for it’s exhilarating speed and quick reaction based gameplay, I also really appreciate the adventure formula for allowing quite a lot of player experimentation and I’ve been meaning to replay adventure 2 at some point. Perhaps now is a good time considering it is the year of shadow, after all :)
You hit the nail on the head about indie titles trying to emulate 3D Sonic focusing too much on big open space and a lot of speed. It really takes the challenge out of the gameplay and honestly makes it difficult to create interesting levels in my opinion. I'm glad that Frontiers recognized this and still gave us smaller levels to platform through in between exploring the islands. Looks like we're on track for that in Shadow Generations too
Excellent video! As much fun as it is to blaze through the stages at high speed, it is equally fun to fully explore them at a slower pace and discover all the secrets. More Sonic-inspired indie games should focus on that too!
I hadn't noticed it before but what you mentioned about SA2 design where it's more closed spaces and densely packed stages with obstacles as opposed to more recent sonic games or clones where it's huge open spaces for the player to zoom around on . From a brief look around every new sonic inspired game is going down the huge open areas route. I never was a fan of the adventure games neither did I play them as a kid but today I got some level of appreciation for adventure 2 : )
Sonic Adventure 2 is definitely my favorite Sonic game. Not even just the speed levels, if you get that “I have to go and i have to do it now” mentality out of your head, the treasure hunting levels are just really chill areas to hang out in and search for the emeralds at your leisure (or as fast as you can if you know where they can spawn), and the mech stages are really fun to just destroy as much as you can in your path. And then of course the speed stages are just the cherry on top. Not perfect of course, but god does it feel good. Once you get a good flow where you just don’t stop, perfection.
I 100% agree with your thoughts on Spark The Electric Jester and Rollin' Rascal here. I love Spark and I've played the hell out of the Rascal demo. But I do notice that a lot of these stages are lacking a real identity like Sonic levels tend to have.
SA2 was an essential in my childhood Dreamcast/Gamecube games... and is the only Sonic game I look back on with genuine admiration... I've replayed SA1, and was dismayed to discover how shallow it was.
This is what I've been saying for years. Very happy to see other like-minded lovers of the classics. I'm hoping we get some more love to this kind of level and game design again; Sonic may be the "fastest thing alive," but having some good old fashioned obstacle-course and trick designed, fully 3D environments is what made SA1-2 the magic they are. Not just going fast; going fast, through obstacles, with style.
You know, probably don't need to say this, but I really think Pizza Tower envisions this idea really well, and to be frank, that idea in general is just good racing game design. It's all about the tightness of your lines, the comfort you acquire with the controls, the routing of the stages, just topped onto with good arcade platforming. Score, skips, combos, everything is kept in line with an idea of what makes good arcade racers so fun but sprinkled on with that kind of complexity you can only get from a character who can jump and grind rails and such. I also really do appreciate the looking at sa2 through the lens of skate games, skate games also imbibe that perfect arcadey goodness that makes you really understand your actions and your pathing to maximize your gameplay, and I think that's definitely a missing component from a lot of sonic inspired games.
The adventure style is where my heart was, my introduction of playing Sonic endlessly on my older cousin's Dreamcast as I played a Sonic Adventure demo disk, endlessly replaying Emerald Coast with my younger cousin was a vibe. Then comes my shock when I got my Game Cube and reliving that same experience on my own with DX. That's not even to mention my experience with SA2 Battle, back when I rented the game (Really struggled with the G.U.N Truck and the first boss) Remembered playing City Escape back to back and raising Chao that alone supported my enjoyment untill I got the game myself and my mind was blown. As for Heroes I wouldn't consider it an 'Adventure' game, least from a mechanics stand point, it's like, calling Lost World a Boost game even if it appeared two games after Unleashed kicking off the boost Era, like how SA1 did with Adventure. Like they are in the respective adventure and boost eras, but Sega just took a hard pivot for some reason before returning to form in both cases. Shadow The Hedgehog is more mechanically aligned with the adventure game play but with the Heroes aesthetic. Sonic The Hedgehog (06), never played the original but I enjoy what P-06 has done. If that was any indication of what 06 could of potentially been mechanically, it would be insane.
Thank you for finally summing it up. This play style is easy to point at and call "bad" by people who haven't tried to experience the heart of the style. There is a great outwardly "bad" appearance about these games too, the gameplay often has an ugly cover, but we know it's only part of the "endearing grime".
Between SA2B and PSO2 (two of my favorite gamecube games ever full stop) Sega had a real knack for creating surprisingly deep and complex mechanics like the chao garden and the races, fights, black market, school, multiple gardens, an entire death and reincarnation system and even the needlesly complex chaos chao which me and my brother poured hundreds of hours alone into attaining multiples of. Phantasy star online episode 1 and 2 also had an immense and complex drop chart database for characters assigned specific colors depending on what you named them and it had a massive effect on what drops you'd get from which monsters on which difficulties. They even had super rare versions of enemies to farm for that would hardly ever appear but would almost certainly drop some of the best items in the game.
good video, the adventure style will always be the king to me, and in SA2 u dont get trick points when you land on a rail u only get them when u land on the ground for some weird ass reason.
I've heard the argument that in the classic games Sonic is a pinball, and in the modern games Sonic is a car. I think in the Adventure games he was a skateboard.
I want a SA2 like game with Sonic Rider's tricks and air system, maybe not 1:1, but Sonic Riders' free form trick system felt like such a massive brain idea that just was never used again even with it's own sequels
Really enjoyed this video. Funnily enough, after seeing how well you described what makes sonic adventure unique, the game that reminded me the most of this is a 2D game, pizza tower. The never-ending quest for combos and speed really got some of the same taste to me, and everyone who loved SA2 should probably give it a try
I really like the way Sonic CD approached developing a Sonic game. It was a platformer at heart, and the levels were huge, very vertical, and densely packed obstacle courses, with the main gimmick being Sonic ability to build up and competently utilise his speed to reach new heights. That radical 90s Tony Hawk edge is absolutely a defining trait of the 3D games, and Sonic Dream Team already slightly utilises halfpipe tricks, although it’s not the main focus for platforming. On that, I’d love a game that combines skateboard stunts with parkour precision platforming. Personally, I *do* want a huge world to explore, *but* I want it to be more densely packed so you can take it at your own pace, freerunning and doing simple parkour when you just want to explore a local area, while always being able to build enough speed to travel the entire place quickly or even soar over large sections, mid-air tricks keeping you busy of course.
This is an insanely well made and thought out explanation of what makes Sonic Adventure 2 an amazing game to replay, and just a fantastic game in general. Very well done, great video! Watching this at 7k views, I really hope this ends up getting way more, it deserves it.
When I was a kid I really didn’t like the Tails/Egg Man missions. As an adult I learned to love them when I did my Sonic Adventure 2 100% play thru. But I agree, sonic and shadow was was the highlight
I actually had this game back when I had a Dreamcast. I didn’t know much about all these alternate routes. I just played the game just to get through the levels and never explored much, which is probably why it was a bit more of a linear experience for me. I never played for the “ranks” either as the game didn’t teach me to care about it. I found out later there was an unlockable Green Hill zone or something, but I never really had the regret about missing it.
Me and some friends used to play SA2B a loooot as teens. One night while playin' the multiplayer I jumped off the edge while grinding a rail at the start. Then shouted "BATMAN" for some reason. Probably sleep deprivation. I feel for a while but ended up landed on a rail near the end, and won. From that moment on we'd try and find spots to cut out parts of the level during multiplayer, speedrun style. And called it Batmaning haha.
I can unfortunately confirm that jumping off the rails is usually SLOWER!
I tried this maneuver a lot as a kid with my brother, on Pumpkin Hill and Crazy Gadget rail racing. There are several spots you can just fall and still land on rails, but if the other player just holds B while grinding they'll always catch up to you before you land.
I'm glad u wrote this comment.
These are the precious times we had with our buddies playing video games at each other's house.
@@Atylonisus Aye if we pulled it off while trying to race it usually looked like it was faster but most of the time it wasn't. When it worked and you got the win after though it felt pretty great. By that point years after the game released I think we were just pumped to find a different way to play haha. Went from "Who can win the race" to "Who can pull off the longest Batman".
Yoooo that's a golden memory right there! Make sure you hold that memory in your heart forever
That's hilarious
The more I watch Sonic Adventure 1/2 retrospectives, the more it feels like I was the only person who actually liked the shooting and Treasure Hunting stages.
I liked the eggman ones in SA2
finally... someone else who appreciates treasure hunt
they were really solid levels, specially in 2 imo, its just that its obvius the majority of exploration and replayability comes from the running stages, but i myself love revisiting all levels with powerups just to discover new shie
I'm with you. I a ranked the whole game, not just the speed stages
I think there were handled perfectly in 06 as little pace breakers in between levels rather than dedicated levels.
"Where A jumps and B does everything else" really got a chuckle out of me
Yeah, definitely one of the more archaic feeling parts of the game. It works, but having functions "compete" like that also results in a lot of headaches, like with the light speed dash vs bounce attack
I think moving to a "three button" system for SA2 would have been a good compromise. Spindashing and similar "default" things can still be mapped to X/B, but Y button would be where functions that cant possibly overlap with one another could live. For example, Mystic Melody and Light Speed Dash are triggered by environment context, meaning there is almoat zero risk of the player doing one when they meant the other
It's crazy that Balan Wonderworld carries on with that design philosophy 20 years later, and it's even more egregious in that game compared to Sonic. All buttons are mapped to jump/costume ability, and having a costume ability means you cannot jump (unless the costume ability happens to be jump-like). Doesn't help that it's already so slow and limited in movement options.
it's just not a sonic game without the constant thought in the back of your mind that you may well fall through a solid object
This is an urban legend most likely stemming from GC release of Sonic Adventure. I completed SADX for PC (yes I know that it was based on GC port) and played a fair amout of SA2 on Dreamcast. I think I fell through the floor like once, as Amy, on the Egg Carrier.
Or that the game you're playing isn't very good
Skill issue
@@kuklama0706 I've of played the entire franchise no exceptions, all mainline titles 4-5 times each. Only games I've ever fallen through floors in were SA, Heroes, S4:EP1, Colors, Lost World, Frontiers and Superstars. Not THAT bad all things considered lol.
And it’s still a problem in shadow generations 😂
"Final Rush has great atmosphere"
But it's in space? X)
So... stratosphere?
I suppose it depends how far out in to space the stage is set. I figure most would mean atmosphere as "breathable" which was the implied meaning of my joke. I'm not sure the boundaries of the stratosphere and troposphere and such. I understand they're quite far out of this world though
@@danielschott4639more like the exosphere
Lol
check again, he's 'burning in the atmosphere' x3
This is the best breakdown I've seen on what makes Sonic Adventure 2 feel like nothing else, a high bar considering just how many videos this game has about it. Outstanding work.
That has gotta be the dopest thumbnail I've ever seen.
I really really agree with what you said about Sonic-inspired games and the wide-open environments in them. They're fun to run through and launch yourself around, but nothing ever could quite compare to the tight, focused design of the Adventure games that force you to microadjust every movement and think on the fly. They don't forget that they're platformers and aren't afraid to have small, unique challenges you can only find in a platforming game. I really hope to find another game one day that captures the same kind of feel.
(The thumbnail with the half-tone magazine look is sick btw!)
They also don't have any good setpieces. Would speed highway be as memorable if you didn't have the sky scraper run? No.
Yeah, I think for a Sonic style game the 'wide-open environment' should just be for a hub world/training ground and you jump into portals or something to enter the levels that have that very tight and focused design to them.
Good points about the jank. Sometimes when games are made too well, they lose a lot of player creativity and soul
No, it really doesn’t. Don’t encourage objectively bad game design.
@@littlemoth4956 Nah nah he ain't wrong, it's rlly a coin flip, but i doubt you'll find anyone who tells you superbouncing isn't fun for exemple
I think Mario Kart 8 is a good example of this.
My personal example is the smash series. Smash Ultimate is a nice game but competitively, it just feels very sterile. Everything is so streamlined that I feel I can't go outside the dev's intended box when it comes to player expression.
@@heldon7951 also that sounds like a staple of the gamecube era, games were kind of wank, but that made them great in a weird way. Mario Sunshine, Smash Melee, Adventure 2
Btw, the treasure hunting and shooting gallery stages are designed as score attacks as well, by finding treasure quickly with few hints and locking on to as high as 11 enemies at once and getting high combo points while finishing the stage quickly. All stage types are essentially score attacks though you probably knew this. Just saying since you seemed to think less of them. Treating them as score attacks and going for the A ranks is how I found the most fun in them. They all share the same design philosophy in learning the level layout, treasure locations, enemy spawns, (including golden beetles), not dying, and replaying to get better. Shame most don’t realise this and they don’t try to play optimally, which leads people to suck at stages and dislike them without properly trying, though I know they’re not flawless by any stretch.
@@dashi-musashi351 Nah I totally get it but they just don't feel as well paced and thought out as the speed levels were, not a hater of the other levels at all or anything , thanks for commenting!
The score aspect has been almost forgotten.
I see that many people don’t worry about the score, just the speed.
It a shame. I love getting a big score doing things other than getting to the goal as fast as possible.
Frontiers didn’t have a score system, and Shadow Generations’ score is based on time anyway.
Maybe if the score wasn't useless, people would care about it. Rayman 3 is one of the very few games where I took the scoring system seriously because it unlocks minigames.
@@artey6671 score is how you get A ranks, and A ranks are how you get Green Hill Zone
@@spindash64 My bad, I forgot about that.
You unlock greenhill zone?@@spindash64
@@envyLP333 A 3D recreation of Green Hill Act 1 in unlocked as a stage for Sonic after getting all 180 emblems, which requires among other things A ranking every mission.
I'm 25 turning 26 soon and a big Sonic fan though out of all the games SA2 is the one I return to the most after 20 something years for pretty much the reasons you put here. Glad to see a kindred spirit and very glad to see a topic on SA2 I haven't really seen discussed before. Got a like and a sub from me dude. Stay safe and have a good day!
@@SneakyFoxHound thanks for the sub🙂
You know what you should check out. Check out the super hard mode mod for sa2 on PC its super fun and makes the speedstages and really the rest of the levels in the game a lot more fleshed out and fun. Also i would suggest checking out the full story sa2 mod. Which makes the story a lot better@@thecamobot
that little part in radical highway you were talking about needing a acid drop is the best part in the entire game. I mean respect the heck out of sky rail and final rush but damn bro that little tunnel on radical highway is peak.
Glad to see more positive videos on SA2 these days! Felt like people were really down on the game for a while. This is my favorite Sonic game and I've really enjoyed the time spent with it. Raising the chao was a fun side game and I have so many memories of playing this game with friends! The adventure games do have a charm to them that modern 3D sonic doesn't quite get.
heroes has some of the coolest uses of the lightspeed dash imo. Also I was today years old when i learned that holding the jump button makes the homing attack popup higher
Wait til you find out that hanging from a ledge without climbing onto it and then pressing A will make you flip onto the ledge instead
@@ChaosHillZone i did not know that. thanks
I came back to SA2 as an adult and it has been the greatest experience I’ve had playing a game. I got addicted to score attacks and especially score attacking final rush. I’ve gotten to 27000 points after spending who knows how long learning the level lol
It has the best version of shadow too.
I fell in love with Final Rush immediately when I played this game.
As someone who only has played bits and pieces of SA2, I was completely unaware that the game had this much depth. I really like when levels have multiple paths aimed at different skill levels.
I think the reason why Sonic Adventure 2's speed stages are so addictive and replayable is because it triggers the same effect in your brain as a driving game would, it's highly replayable because you LEARN the stage more and more each time you play it and figure out the quickest way to beat it.
I've found it really hard to tap into Sonic games past SA2, and never really had the words to explain why. I'm thankful to find someone who said it better than I ever could!
Best Sonic game ever. I just wish they had a bit of more resources and enrich the game with more stuff, like the hub worlds from the original SA. Basically, when your only complain for the game is "I want more", it's probably a very good game.
Totally agree with that sentiment
While I also want hub worlds for this game (ESPECIALLY the ARK) I can understand why they didn't do it, this game's map is way to big, the city alone would probably be the size of station square, the mystic ruins and the egg carrier combined. It would be hard to traverse the large city, the isolated Prison Island and it's forest, the canyons, the desert and especially the ARK which just like the city would probably be way bigger than all the SA1 hub worlds combined.
Need a sonic adventure battle 3 or at least a remake. They would probably screw up though, that kind of game just doesn't exist anymore.
I grew up with the Gamecube, so when I later went back and played the Dreamcast version, I was surprised just how many things were better there. Inparticular, the Hero and Dark chao gardens are way better there. Why did we have to lose that?!?
The only reason I can think for the change, was maybe it was too hard to find chao in those complex gardens? (And also stopping players from drowning Tails, lol)
@@Protofall wait, were the gardens bigger in Dreamcast version than in PC version? I'm on PC now and the hero garden here is pretty minimal. I don't even see the reason in moving my chao there, aside from the more nutritious palm fruits.
That's a really good looking thumbnail with style and flair
Same thought here!
Sonic Adventure 2 rails felt like the natural continuation of the Genesis game rolling physics: you can't build up speed on your own anymore, but you can STORE speed much better on rails, thus allowing you to reach areas you never could otherwise
Spark the Electric Jester 2 & 3 did the Sonic Adventure 2 formula really well. Though I can understand why some might not like it as both titles veer closer to Heroes/Shadow style gameplay by the midway point. Not sure if you disliked Spark, but do give it a second chance as there's a lot to like about those two games.
I think the bit of spark I played was fun! I just felt it wasn't recreating the specific things I liked if that makes sense, thanks for the comment!
Ehh Spark is alright I guess
Ohhh I wanna play now!
I don’t play Indie games
@@kingstarscream320 fair enough
Give Penny's Big Breakaway a try. It has a lot of skill expression, tight level design that still allows for large skips with enough player skill to build up the speed, and do the jumps correctly to make it long distances, while still making level design something you need to consider at all times while playing.
This whole time, I was hoping he would make a special mention to Penny's, because it is the only Sonic-inspired game that has given me a similar experience to the Adventure games. Such a wonderful time.
Penny is a broadly similar type of game, but it seems like he's looking for something more like a straight clone of SA2. While obviously Sonic Team-inspired, Penny is really it's own thing and I feel like it's mechanically more reminiscent of Billy Hatcher if anything.
Penny's is too disimilar to the adventure games. Totally different art style and vibe. There's no set pieces and there's a lot less speed.
What he wanted was an SA2 clone, and tbh so do I.
SA2 is my favorite 3d Sonic game for a lot of reasons. The speed stages in SA2 are just incredible. Every stage in that game is fun, the only one that can be kind of annoying is Crazy Gadget. The ranking system in SA2 is so good and I wish other Sonic games had a ranking system like that.
I love every speed stage in SA2, yes even final chase and crazy gadget.
Nooo 😭 I love crazy gadget, this stage is hella good, it's been one of my favorites since I mastered it
Incredibly well done video! Not only was the editing and gameplay on point, but everything about player expression and movement in SA2 were my thoughts exactly! Even when it came to implementing more movement options akin to THPS to make moving around in these tightly knit levels even better.
Instant sub. : )
@@NauticalNoey thanks for the sub and comment!
So many developers end up leaving good ideas on the table by never returning to what they built. Always starting from the ground up
Sonic Adventure 2 Battle was so fun and the Chao Garden had a reason for me to keep playing, so I S ranked everything in the game back when I was a kid. No other game has pulled me in that strongly.
There is no S rank in sonic adventure 2 battle but ok
Decades later, I'm still shocked that they had such a good system with SA2 and then completely flushed it down the toilet with Heroes.
I literally came here straight from finishing my nth SA2 playthrough - Sonic Frontiers 1st playthrough. I complained to my sibling for like half an hour about how SA2 had SUCH good rail momentum mechanics and that none of the modern sonic games come close to how fun the running levels were in SA2
SA2 actually kinda has action chains already, just very obfuscated (like everything else). Off top of my head, in White Jungle, if you make it from the start of the stage to the first checkpoint without doing any jumps or somersaults unless they aim at a spring, enemy or are used to duck under a wooden obstacle, you get awarded with trick points when you make it the checkpoint. Cool, Radical, Tight or Awesome depending on how far you made it with those restraints until the checkpoint- acting like a combo of small sections where you alternate between not jumping and jumping once and doing large lengths without touching the ground. This is actually really hard to pull off in the Hard mode version of the stage. Iirc, you also do get more points for balancing properly in the grinding rails- at the end of City Escape, on the triple rail, you get anywhere from 600 to 1500 points (Radical to Extreme) based on how quickly you grinded down the rails.
I completely agree with your conclusion about more focus on tricks/action combos and less on speed/huge levels. I think making the stages progressively faster and larger is a "dead end" in terms of gameplay- speed leads to boost auto-play (since it's almost impossible to control something so fast) and large levels always end up empty. The trick system is the solution, in which it allows for player agency, precise and quick reactions (which emulate speed quite well) while also looking stylish.
I never even noticed this. Wow.
Just wanted to say, this is a superbly edited video!
I always love it when I find a video essay that perfectly encapsulates how I feel on a given subject.
You distilled everything I love about Sonic/Shadow's gameplay in SA2 perfectly into words in a way I just couldn't when arguing with people about it in the past.
Normally, I don't leave comments but I really needed to this time. This was an absolutely incredible video! You took my exact thoughts and put them out in a way that makes sense to those who've never played these games before.
The magic of the Adventure formula truly cannot be understated and I do wish SEGA would try it again. I'm glad you were able to make such a great video on this topic, because I've been trying for quite some time now and couldn't get the right words for it.
I look forward to more content from you :)
I wish they would give Shadow his run animation SA 2 back in all other games! Totally goated and it made you FEEL the speed of using him versus him slowly "skating" or gliding now.
i had a hard time describing in words just why i never really fully got into alot of 3D sonic fan games that claimed it was adventure-inspired but this video really captures what I really wanted sonic games to feel like! Awesome video dude!
Sonic Adventure 2 is probably my second most played childhood game, (first being Pokemon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers of Sky) oh my god I still love this game and the adventure gameplay and replayed it a bunch on Steam too haha
It is really is a shame a lot of people write off Sonic instantly these days cause of a few bad games and never giving these a chance :(
But I must say you 100% nailed why it is so replayable and I beg of you to try The Big Catch: Tacklebox, been playing that on and off and it is probably the most replayable platformer I have played since SA2.
SA2 controls need fixing, the grinding is amazing on the Dreamcast, but because the controller evolved on newer consoles, but SA2s didn't update the controls, the risk reward for grinding is a lot better on the Dreamcast, people should look this up, it's amazing how people can zip on rails because of the balancing mechanics
@@blazeneko3384 Just gets worse with every port 😢
@@thecamobot from what I know, modders haven't fixed this, but someone on UA-cam has made a tutorial on how to make it closer, using Steam's controller layout
Actually a mod came out about 2 weeks ago fixing this exact thing. It's called "SA2 Input Controls".
@@sbboard1 cool thanks, I need to try that out
@@thecamobot I just played the mod @sbboard1 talked about, it might have fixed one of your complaints, the flying off the rail, I might have just been lucky, but it did improve the movement by a lot
Been waiting for Sonic Adventure 3 for quite sometime
I also am someone who enjoys Sonic games, but keeps coming back to SA2. There really is so much depth to the mechanics of this game (even if some of it was likely not developer intended). Some of my love is definitely nostalgia as I played the game on release on the first console I owned, the Dreamcast. Even as an adult though, the game still provides me so much joy as I learn more about the game each time I play. The game being endlessly replayable is part of the reason a friend and I created an SA2 randomizer a few years ago. We wanted more reasons to play the game, and a way to play together apart from the built-in 2P stages. We also really wanted to highlight parts of the game that are often ignored since they aren’t essential. Your video did a good job describing many of the aspects of SA2 that we think make it also fun to randomize.
Thanks for this great video describing one of the gems from my childhood which I continue to love to this day.
It never ceases to amaze me it’s such a gl
How I can tell I've put a lot of hours into SA2:
Hearing *Let's Make it!* Getting looped repeatedly before the climax of the theme was driving me nuts lmao.
Im not a huge sonic fan, but SA2 is one of my childhood favorites. I still play it every once in a while, and i love the insights.
Separately, this video is very very well written, recorded, and edited and i just want to say great work. The "sa2 that exists" edit made me pause, like, and subscribe
the point about tightly knit very specifically designed levels in contrast extremely open areas is something I can't help but nod in agreement with. Lots of fangames and spiritual sequels push for exhilarating speed and that has its merits but so much freedom of movement means you aren't pushing for "faster. Faster! do it Better!"
The jankiest mechanics I can remember are the arms of the artificial chaos getting in the way of taking them out, and not wiggling in the correct direction on grinding rails
Awesome coverage on this 10:50 A very nostalgic video my friend!
Back when I'd replay Sonic games immensely, replayability was off the charts.
I love SA2 to bits, but I do agree that I tend to play as 2/6 characters 95% of the time. But there is a time I do enjoy playing one of those 4, Eggman in Cosmic Wall. You combined low gravity with tonnes of targets and it becomes a power trip!
I believe that the Adventure games were the first Sonic games that I ever played. I played SA1 more in my childhood because SA2 was too difficult for my childhood self, though in 2022 I learned that as an adult I can get through all 3 stories of that game, causing me to enjoy it a lot. I've been trying to get my own gaming PC this year and downloading Project-06 into it is one of the main things that I've already been 100% convinced to try to do after I get that PC. I've been trying to get help from people who I know have more knowledge about PCs than I do about how to find the right PC for myself.
i think a big reason why indie projects don't feel as good as sonic is because they're very resistant to take control from the player, but sometimes the player needs the control taken from them for spectacle. Loop de loops in indie titles, when they leave you in control, feel TERRIBLE, but sonic has always done them right by locking the player on a track for them in every 3d game. That combined with the spaces being too open make them feel very empty and oftentimes monotonously boring.
as such, id really only recommend penny's big breakaway for anything similar to what SA2 could offer. It's not as blisteringly fast, but the level design and fluid movement definitely is closer.
A2's main sin is same button syndrome. we have more buttons, let's use them now.
That's what's all about.
Running through the levels several times and perfecting your run feels so satisfying. That should be a focus and I agree with you that it would resonate with today's crowd
Your Tile is spot on, i've seen my brother replay SA2 multiple times completely starting again and again so he can continuously go after S Rank on new save files.
Growing up with Boost gameplay (UnWiished & Colors), I remember playing Adventure 2 for the first time and thinking "wow, I get it. I get why people like this style". You made me appreciate this formula in a new way.
Excellent video! I grew up playing SA2 as one of my first video games ever and as an adult now I still revisit it.
Even watching this video, I’m seeing things and routes I never thought of!
Stage-skipping... one player skipped one stage by only one jump from the start and I was left to wonder asking... "where is the fun in that...? Why would someone skip a level if they love to play it...???"
Because it takes an understanding and comfortability with the level that can only come after hours and hours of experiencing it in full without skipping it. Ideally, anyways. Its like finding a shortcut in mario kart, they're always a little hidden and can be tricky to pull off, so skipping it is an engaging feedback loop in and of itself
You did a great job on this, I'm glad this video is getting recognition!
Great video! SA2 will always be my favorite Sonic game. You did a great job explaining and the gameplay was top notch especially that long jump in final rush
I really appreciate this love letter to my favourite game childhood game. I am pretty much completely in agreement with what I want from the series/spiritual successors, other than me quite strongly wishing for a new Chao Garden. Thanks for taking the time to nostalgia bomb me today, my "Perfect!" tattoo is practically glowing :)
10:58 dude, thank you for teaching me this shortcut, that made Final Chase a lot more fun for me
This is such a great video. You just laid out all the reasons I love this game!
preachin to the choir my man; this video was music to my ear holes. i feel i've been waiting forever for someone to correctly put into words how i feel about this specific gameplay style and how it differs from the other 3d entries in the series.
for as happy as i wanted to be about sonic mania, i'm still waiting on the day us adventure truthers will be fed the same. also, thank you for mentioning the wii variety of unleashed. because that is also a specific gameplay style i'm praying gets its dues someday
"squeeze and release"
Bill burr said something similar about comedy. Tension and release.
Your ideas are very creative, genuinely. I have subscribed because of that. Excited to see your other content.
As a game Dev that has been heavily inspired by the Adventure Series, thank you for this!!!
Shoutout SSX3. I feel like people only remember Tricky, but SSX3 reminds me of SA2 when it comes to how the scope & vibe of the games outshine the jank they may have had 10 fold.
I think someone should share this video with Sonic Team, as it exposes many of the problems I have with both official and fangames these days...
And the thing is that most people focus only on the physics of the character, when it is also important for a level design to have more things than just a straight line to run.
This and Sonic Advance 3. Experimenting with all the Tag Teams kept me coming back to the game.
This was a solid video! While I personally love the boost formula at its best for it’s exhilarating speed and quick reaction based gameplay, I also really appreciate the adventure formula for allowing quite a lot of player experimentation and I’ve been meaning to replay adventure 2 at some point. Perhaps now is a good time considering it is the year of shadow, after all :)
You hit the nail on the head about indie titles trying to emulate 3D Sonic focusing too much on big open space and a lot of speed. It really takes the challenge out of the gameplay and honestly makes it difficult to create interesting levels in my opinion. I'm glad that Frontiers recognized this and still gave us smaller levels to platform through in between exploring the islands. Looks like we're on track for that in Shadow Generations too
Excellent video! As much fun as it is to blaze through the stages at high speed, it is equally fun to fully explore them at a slower pace and discover all the secrets. More Sonic-inspired indie games should focus on that too!
I hadn't noticed it before but what you mentioned about SA2 design where it's more closed spaces and densely packed stages with obstacles as opposed to more recent sonic games or clones where it's huge open spaces for the player to zoom around on . From a brief look around every new sonic inspired game is going down the huge open areas route. I never was a fan of the adventure games neither did I play them as a kid but today I got some level of appreciation for adventure 2 : )
Sonic Adventure 2 is definitely my favorite Sonic game. Not even just the speed levels, if you get that “I have to go and i have to do it now” mentality out of your head, the treasure hunting levels are just really chill areas to hang out in and search for the emeralds at your leisure (or as fast as you can if you know where they can spawn), and the mech stages are really fun to just destroy as much as you can in your path. And then of course the speed stages are just the cherry on top. Not perfect of course, but god does it feel good. Once you get a good flow where you just don’t stop, perfection.
I 100% agree with your thoughts on Spark The Electric Jester and Rollin' Rascal here. I love Spark and I've played the hell out of the Rascal demo. But I do notice that a lot of these stages are lacking a real identity like Sonic levels tend to have.
SA2 was an essential in my childhood Dreamcast/Gamecube games... and is the only Sonic game I look back on with genuine admiration... I've replayed SA1, and was dismayed to discover how shallow it was.
This is what I've been saying for years. Very happy to see other like-minded lovers of the classics. I'm hoping we get some more love to this kind of level and game design again; Sonic may be the "fastest thing alive," but having some good old fashioned obstacle-course and trick designed, fully 3D environments is what made SA1-2 the magic they are. Not just going fast; going fast, through obstacles, with style.
You know, probably don't need to say this, but I really think Pizza Tower envisions this idea really well, and to be frank, that idea in general is just good racing game design. It's all about the tightness of your lines, the comfort you acquire with the controls, the routing of the stages, just topped onto with good arcade platforming. Score, skips, combos, everything is kept in line with an idea of what makes good arcade racers so fun but sprinkled on with that kind of complexity you can only get from a character who can jump and grind rails and such. I also really do appreciate the looking at sa2 through the lens of skate games, skate games also imbibe that perfect arcadey goodness that makes you really understand your actions and your pathing to maximize your gameplay, and I think that's definitely a missing component from a lot of sonic inspired games.
The adventure style is where my heart was, my introduction of playing Sonic endlessly on my older cousin's Dreamcast as I played a Sonic Adventure demo disk, endlessly replaying Emerald Coast with my younger cousin was a vibe. Then comes my shock when I got my Game Cube and reliving that same experience on my own with DX. That's not even to mention my experience with SA2 Battle, back when I rented the game (Really struggled with the G.U.N Truck and the first boss) Remembered playing City Escape back to back and raising Chao that alone supported my enjoyment untill I got the game myself and my mind was blown.
As for Heroes I wouldn't consider it an 'Adventure' game, least from a mechanics stand point, it's like, calling Lost World a Boost game even if it appeared two games after Unleashed kicking off the boost Era, like how SA1 did with Adventure. Like they are in the respective adventure and boost eras, but Sega just took a hard pivot for some reason before returning to form in both cases.
Shadow The Hedgehog is more mechanically aligned with the adventure game play but with the Heroes aesthetic.
Sonic The Hedgehog (06), never played the original but I enjoy what P-06 has done. If that was any indication of what 06 could of potentially been mechanically, it would be insane.
This video earned my sub. Thanks for putting to words what I couldn't as an 11 year old but felt in full force.
Thank you for finally summing it up. This play style is easy to point at and call "bad" by people who haven't tried to experience the heart of the style. There is a great outwardly "bad" appearance about these games too, the gameplay often has an ugly cover, but we know it's only part of the "endearing grime".
Between SA2B and PSO2 (two of my favorite gamecube games ever full stop) Sega had a real knack for creating surprisingly deep and complex mechanics like the chao garden and the races, fights, black market, school, multiple gardens, an entire death and reincarnation system and even the needlesly complex chaos chao which me and my brother poured hundreds of hours alone into attaining multiples of.
Phantasy star online episode 1 and 2 also had an immense and complex drop chart database for characters assigned specific colors depending on what you named them and it had a massive effect on what drops you'd get from which monsters on which difficulties. They even had super rare versions of enemies to farm for that would hardly ever appear but would almost certainly drop some of the best items in the game.
I absolutely agree sonic should be a trick-based, action/combo platformer, and I wanna see that happen in the next 5 years pls
Sonic Adventure 2 is definitely a favorite when it comes to Sonic games. The Chao Garden adds tons of replayability.
good video, the adventure style will always be the king to me, and in SA2 u dont get trick points when you land on a rail u only get them when u land on the ground for some weird ass reason.
Nice video, thanks for shining light on this amazing game
I've heard the argument that in the classic games Sonic is a pinball, and in the modern games Sonic is a car. I think in the Adventure games he was a skateboard.
I want a SA2 like game with Sonic Rider's tricks and air system, maybe not 1:1, but Sonic Riders' free form trick system felt like such a massive brain idea that just was never used again even with it's own sequels
Replayed it several times this year and I do that every year. Forever the best sonic game in my book
At some point, you have to accept that there will never be another Sonic Adventure 2, but that’s what makes it special! Also the soundtrack 😭
Really enjoyed this video. Funnily enough, after seeing how well you described what makes sonic adventure unique, the game that reminded me the most of this is a 2D game, pizza tower. The never-ending quest for combos and speed really got some of the same taste to me, and everyone who loved SA2 should probably give it a try
I really like the way Sonic CD approached developing a Sonic game. It was a platformer at heart, and the levels were huge, very vertical, and densely packed obstacle courses, with the main gimmick being Sonic ability to build up and competently utilise his speed to reach new heights.
That radical 90s Tony Hawk edge is absolutely a defining trait of the 3D games, and Sonic Dream Team already slightly utilises halfpipe tricks, although it’s not the main focus for platforming. On that, I’d love a game that combines skateboard stunts with parkour precision platforming.
Personally, I *do* want a huge world to explore, *but* I want it to be more densely packed so you can take it at your own pace, freerunning and doing simple parkour when you just want to explore a local area, while always being able to build enough speed to travel the entire place quickly or even soar over large sections, mid-air tricks keeping you busy of course.
This video is extremely awesome!
This is an insanely well made and thought out explanation of what makes Sonic Adventure 2 an amazing game to replay, and just a fantastic game in general. Very well done, great video! Watching this at 7k views, I really hope this ends up getting way more, it deserves it.
I put God knows how many hours into the Chao garden. Good times.
When I was a kid I really didn’t like the Tails/Egg Man missions. As an adult I learned to love them when I did my Sonic Adventure 2 100% play thru. But I agree, sonic and shadow was was the highlight
I think you'd like Penny's big breakaway, it's got that dense obstacle course style gameplay you're into
The fact that we never got SA3 should be a crime
I actually had this game back when I had a Dreamcast. I didn’t know much about all these alternate routes. I just played the game just to get through the levels and never explored much, which is probably why it was a bit more of a linear experience for me. I never played for the “ranks” either as the game didn’t teach me to care about it. I found out later there was an unlockable Green Hill zone or something, but I never really had the regret about missing it.
SA2 is that one game that I can genuinely replay at any time.
Me and my brother played the multiplayer so much that we both hit 999 on both sides of the board, amazing times!
Sonic adventure 2 so epic!! 2001 we received this amazing game from sega and what a dreamcast sendoff; a game for the ages!!