Should You Dunk? Fan? And How to Avoid Sidepins (NO Liner), and How to Harvest Shoeboxes! Mycology
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- Опубліковано 27 кві 2023
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Should you dunk? How do you prevent sidepins? Are liners really the answer?
Hello everybody! In this video I go over 3 important topics for the home mushroom cultivator:
1) All about sidepins, including discussion on how to avoid them and dispelling some misconception that liners are a one way ticket to no-sidepin city.
2) An in-depth explanation on the various methods I have used to harvest shoeboxes when there are pins on top that I don't want to damage, but have mature side/bottom fruits that need to be picked.
3) How to rehydrate your substrate, whether it's a shoebox, monotub, jar, or bag. I talk about dunking and why I am not a fan of it and present some alternative methods that are increasingly becoming the primary method for many cultivators.
Hope you all enjoy and have a great day or night!
🍄💜
Sage
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It WORKED!
@@greatestytcommentator 😊
Hey brutha I have a question and I don't know if I Kno how to ask it but here it goes.. so I made my own bag and I used some LC I made and I put it in the dark then I looked at it like 2 days later and there was liddo white spots it looked different then micelum to me but I'm new to this.. and so it's been a week and where those white spots where are now liddo mushrooms.. and I'm wondering if that's normal.. like my substrate hasn't even colonized..
Is blueishing mycilum being in fruiting condition means contamination?
I just don't see the reason to care about side/bottom pinning... except for a tiny increase in yield.
In a world of confusion, your videos have made the most sense to me. I see people turning cultivation into rocket science, but keeping it simple seems to work just fine. Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
Thank you David, that is why I started this channel so I’m happy to hear you get it :)
Finnaly! Everybody says to just "get another flush" but never say how.
Happy I could help!
I could watch 20 videos from 20 other channels and still not get as much information as a single one of yours. Thank you for being so content rich.
Thank you 😊
I can never tell you enough how grateful I am for all of your knowledge. Sage you are the man.😊
Thank you David, I appreciate it!
@@Mycophilia right brother, Sage is awesome❤my favorite Canadian ever 💯👌
Thanks, no problem😊
I misted after first flush and second flush was bigger than first. Your videos have been spot on. Not dunking ever. On my third flush now.
Thanks for the videos and teaching us through your trial & error.. saving us a ton of our own time. Shoebox neglect tek is the way!!
Always such a help no matter how much we think we know something more to learn from your experience man love it 🙌🤟 mush love
Great video man. Totally agree with what you were saying about why you use unmodified shoeboxes.. so much easier to work with than putting them in a tent or bigger container. Glad you out here helping us shoebox/neglect tek folks thrive
"Misting the hell out of it" was the way ive used at my UncleBens cakes and THIS was the way: second and 3. flush with no problems :)
Thanks for this video - in regards to rehydration it confirmed what I intuitively was doing - heavy misting repeatedly and looking closely at the surface each time. Makes sense to me to recreate a heavy rain and watch the sub to see how it's absorbing it! Cheers.
Wow, every Content provider has something to contribute. This is science after all. Everyone even the most ardent veteran to newbies like myself can learn something new from their own and others experiences.
I have been geowing since the 90s and can tell that the intuition is the best advisor.
Exactly
Common sense and understanding nature , not just counting on UA-cam advise
Back when internet wasn't around
Had to learn from hands on experience
These days no one has to think for themselves
This was extremely helpful thank you again sage .
My weed experiment with I know vermiculite casing started kicking out side pins. I added a dub tub now it's going nuts on top. Looking like I got 5-6 side pins to deal with, and 10+ on top. Pretty sure it's gonna do good even with vermiculite casing. I had some peatmoss I probably should of added, but to late for that now. Coir isn't easy to find locally. So did what I could. I normally grow straw bales no casing. Wasn't prepared for this, but forgot to shake syringe and one jar was ready way before the rest.
I actually just add 1/4 cup of water after picking first flush. I also remove my liner after cake is solid. Side pins don’t bother me too much
I literally just dunked after a little hesitation Wish I’d watched this 1st . So my cake did fracture into a few pieces. So I’ve basically patched it together as best I can and am now just going to watch and wait . There’s more room in my tube now so I’m actually hoping to get more side pins. Some of the best fruits I got off the 1st flush came off the sides actually. Thanks for your vids they’re so helpful
Great vid....super helpful. Have you ever experimented with using an additional high moisture casing layer for additional flushes?
As in recasing later on? Or making a thicker casing layer?
Wow! That was a great video. I've learned so much from your work. Thanks Man!
Glad I could help! Thanks for the comment Bumlee 😊
Great video Sage!!
There is some much information out there, some of it conflicting, but this all just makes really good sense. 👍
Wonderful video buddy, appreciate you!
I was waiting for this video😄🍄
Thank you for the suggestions. I've grown for many years using cases -- but use black sided ones to reduce side pins. After the first flush , the substrate has shrunk from the sides so I fill the gap with sterilized soil (coir) and heavily spray. Because I live in an area with low humidity, I've built a small "clean" room with intake and exhaust fans with a humidifier feeding into a long distribution tube to cover 7 or 8 cases. Big production, typically 300-400 grams per case.
Cases?
Sir Sage! I am brand new to this end currently inoculating my second attempt. After stumbling upon this video, I realized I watched one more of yours previously so I investigated, man do I wish I had viewed all of your incredible work before spending so much time and money on other methods!!! Wondering if any of your previous videos have, or if you could produce one in the future for viewers like me. I know have a all in one Martha tent that I am now into for about $500. I am mostly using spawn bags and large containers for fruiting. Should I just stop all of this or could you recommend ways in which I could utilize the tent better? I very much appreciate your work and your replies to so many comments. Thank you, Tim.
Fefe here! thanks, i need this! Stone teach me a very usefull tech, using 5ml of destiled water syrynge in every corner
Great video. “Simulate Thunder”, that cracked me up. Nice job man 👍🏼.
Thanks! 😁
Ah, PF Tek. Haven't heard that referenced in quite some time. Reminds me of college.
dunking seems just easier for me.
i've heard about some people weighting the fresh fruit they harvested and putting that amount of water back into the sub.
Always learn something new 😊
100% going to not dunk this time round as that is a massive pain. Keep up the good work its really appriciatesd !
Thanks brother! Dig yer content, and yer style!
Thank you Jack 😊
Thx 🍻😎congratulations 10.000 🥳🥳🥳SAPERE AUDE
Thank you!
I can’t believe I was considering dunking…thank you sage!!
😊
I had 3 shoeboxes sitting after a second flush dunk which got me 4 grams dried (first flush got me 60 grams)... gonna try this on them and see how it goes
Nice one, I’m all for simplifying! I do have a question about dunking though: isn’t it also about drowning nasties? I read somewhere dunking for 24h fulfilled a function of cleaning up your sub from previous flush life and properly resetting it. Is this a not valid point in your opinion?
Another is regarding large tubs. I now run 50+l ez dials, and not sure how I should go about dunking or spraying.. feels like I’d need to spray an insane amount of water on those. Have you got any advice for those larger projects?
You can move them to 27qt containers once you start to see the side pins
Question, have you ever switched to a bigger tub, after the mycelium is developed and starting to pin? And envert the mycelium block sideways? So it pins on all 5 sides? I did this last time and found it productive. But I live in a humid area as well.
Until now, I have bought ready-made growing kits from online fats. I have always had success (I see that in these compliments there is perlite on the bottom, a middle layer of rye grain, and vermiculite on top! I want to grow in the same box, I have a filter bag. I recently took a print .Please advise .I want to make jars and add in a box with coir and vermiculite
Great video 👍
Thanks for sharing your techniques! Much appreciate your content! So with these small shoeboxes you don't need to do anything with FAE to make them fruit (coir lovers)? Just spritz, cover back up and let evaporation do it's job?
Yep!
Just what i wanted to hear about ❤
What about ice cubes to rehydrate? Would the cold be bad for them? My room temperature running about 80 degrees right now so thought maybe might help keep fruiting chamber (shoebox) cooler while adding moisture that can slowly seep into substrate as ice melts?
No, just water.
Dude! Great info
Glad it was helpful!
I love your videos. Im on my first grow. My first pin started 14 days ago and I only got 2 full open caps and 2 aborts. I believe because of I was fanning it caused my cake to lose water and shrink a little. Now im trying to rehydrate the cake and hopefully see if i can get a flush out of it. Do I need to remove all the pins on top before I heavy mist my cake? A friend suggested taking a sterilized fork and very slightly taking of the surface of the cake then spraying it down to rehydrate which im a little worried to mess up the cake. What is your best advice, thank you for all your videos!
My advice would be to pasteurize some cocoa choir and put a half inch thick Field capacity casing on top
Man you have helped me more than anyone else I watch! Thank you, your work is not going unappreciated!
Thank you 😊 🍄 💜
A good method to know how hydrated your substrate is, weigh it when it is perfect. Take note of the weight. And then weigh it after your flush. It will give you an idea of how much moisture it needs. But you have to weigh it down to the gram, not just ounces and pounds.
It doesn't work like that as the nutrients in the substrate are also lost after flushing (as they go towards the mushrooms). This is a completely unnecessary step and overcomplicates unnecessarily. Just mist until it stops absorbing the water, simple as that.
@@Mycophilia I respect your opinion
I apologize if I came across rude, that was not my intention.
I once had like literally 1-2 pins on the top of mycelium and plenty of pins on the side of cake, although it was taped and in box. Anyway, since this time i just let it grow everywhere, and c'mon it's just smarter. Instead of only top surface I have 3x more by using sides.
It’s just easier to harvest if they come out on top. And they will flush the same amount in the end, sides or top.
i personally use a large basting syringe to hydrate my larger tubs. :)
by flush do you mean harvest or is a flush an umbrella term for like 2-5 harvests?
Dang it, I just placed an order with ITW and didn't see your code! Oh well, next time!
Can you talk about his to cultivate enigma. I hear that it’s special don’t wanna mess it up
I wish you had this video out about a month ago haha lol I just came to the same conclusion about fanning, all it caused me was contamination lol every time and every bin I fanned , I don't use a liner either , thanks for the info on side pins and how to rehydrate! I'm off to Walmart to get some more shoeboxes, oh also I have some pins in my Cyansen finally lol ! Take care man ! Peace from Welland Ontario Canada 🇨🇦 ve3hip Mike
So / you obviously know what you’re talking about, so Ive decided to go start with your first video and watch the series. Maybe catch up so I can be current with the new vids you put out. Thanks for the info.
Thank you so much!!
My pleasure!
this is a good idea !!!
Great ! Exactly what I still needed ! Thanks a lot. I look forward to watching this video.
That fits my situation rather well. Thanks a lot.
Shoot I’m already soaking a cake. I’ll try your method on the next batch
If using a bag do i mist the top of the substrate?
If you were drying fruits overnight and your dehydrator shut off leaving the fruits more than halfway done, i assume its ok to restart it up the next morning? The fruits were still a tad soft inside so I wasn't sure if they're ruined or not due to sitting out for several hours on the tray. Seems like I might just lose out on some "flavor"? Other than that any concerns I should worry about? I just turned on the dehydrator and gonna finish the job 🤷♂️ appreciate you!
As long as it’s not TOO long in between, probably fine
@@Mycophilia it was like 3 hours max and they had already done 8 hrs in it so they were pretty close just not quite there. They look good now😁
What if don't have casing and it's mycelium can i still do that and spray it obviously from further away? Thank you?
Yes
Hey mycophillia! I had someone on Reddit suggest to me to leave the aborts on my sub when I dunk and send it to 2nd flush. He claimed that the mycelium would reclaim all the aborts and the mycelium will eat them up for nutrients. Is this true and would you recommend doing this?
Yes, check out my video “All About Aborts”
Sorry to be slightly off topic.
I like AiO groBags.
Is the rubber band a thing? I tried it... then got paranoid that moisture was collecting at the bottom....
Haven’t tried it so I can’t say
I use a rubberband until the first flush is done, then I slide it down some to actually get as much yield as possible around the sides as the substrate shrinks and leaves room for side fruits without the harvesting problems. Then after the 2nd I take the band all the way off on attempt to getting more from bottom and sides 😊 so far so good. Mush love!
Bro lately I have been experimenting with just injecting the cake with a syringe full of water to rehydrate. Give it a shot and see how it works for you.
Blessings!
Where do you buy the syringe ? Sorry if thats a stupid question.
I habe grown off and on for a while now but just getting into shoeboxes. I kinda like em so far. But also wanted to add, a layer of small bubble wrap is really good for keeping the top from drying out..or you can just pack down a top layer of coir and spray it down with extra water.
Weigh your harvest and ensure you spray at least half that over the first two days after flush.
Thanks man
Are you reusing shoeboxes? Do you have to use them with same strains? Just need a decontam and sterilization between grows?
Lol definitely sterilize everything u use bud
Can you add molasses to your water as a nutrient?
I have watched multiple videos on growing and no one addresses this quedtion I have. What kind of water is everyone using: tap, bottled, spring, or distilled?
Tap or distilled.
I'm actually finding that the top mist method after flush is not working for me because I live in a super humid/tropical climate - I can't judge whether or not it's adequately hydrated based on it 'sucking up' moisture because I'm pretty much guaranteed to have excess moisture around/on/under the cake regardless of whether or not the cake is actually hydrated inside. I had water pooling under and on top of my cake last harvest and the cake wasn't actually hydrated leading to small fruits. I'm going to need to do the classic dunk/float with holes in it in between frushes.
If you had water pooling then they were properly hydrated. The largest cause of small fruits is genetics
I get water puddling under the cake even at the end of a flush with no misting just from so much condensation drip and the cake itself is shrunken and dry. It seems like the mycelium forms a 'seal' and becomes hydrophobic at a certain point. Not trying to tell you how it is as I'm a n00b and obviously you have a ton more experience than me but my RH is on average high 50's so I'm finding I have to tweak some things. @@Mycophilia
The mycelium on mine made a crust that will not absorb any water after the first flush. I tried injecting, but it's so dense internally that either the water comes out the top around the needle, or the plunger is impossible to push in. I am still afraid to dunk, but idk what else to do. I thought about breaking the cake apart, crumbling it into completely loose material, adding water, and reforming it into the container, then wait for the mycelium to regrow, but I worry that will just destroy it completely. It's been over 2 weeks without any change at all; no mycelium repair, nothing. I mist it daily to the point water puddles in spots, and the mycelium stays bruised, but water just evaporates by next day.
If it’s been 2 weeks and nothing, I would stop expecting for another flush. Likely due to some contam
@Mycophilia I cleaned it up with hot water and dunked it overnight. Just experimenting now since it seems lifeless anyways. I think it just completely dried up where even heavy misting wasn't enough to rehydrate. It was extremely dry when I worked with it yesterday evening. The first flush was super abundant, and I was afraid to mess with it at all.
Thanks for the reply..
very nice 🍄
Thank you! Cheers!
Great video, Sage!
🐦
If you cake cracks, or separates, but isn’t dry does that affect fruiting??
Yes but they will still fruit
If you put a casing layer do you still mist?
Yes, I’ve basically been treating them like my exotics, just because I’am at home (mist a lot), but they should be fine with minimal misting with a casing layer.
Recently attempted my first clone of a fruit. I sterilized my knife with a torch and tried to let it cool a bit, anyways all my samples look a bit burnt on the agar. Do you think it'll still produce? It's been about 3 days and haven't seen anything yet. even the spot where I dropped it on the agar looks a bit burnt too :c
It could recover, the outside could just be burnt but the inside may still be viable. If so, it can take a few days for it to recover.
A good trick is to dunk the blade into the uncolonized agar to cool it down before cutting into the mycelium.
That's ridiculous. You are way over thinking it
I've literally made several clones with my bare fingernails after spraying them with alcohol.
@@jakeplumber1373 yeah, mushrooms can start over again from animals dropping a stem after eating the cap
I’ve had a lot more success since tuning in to your channel. Much appreciated
Very happy to hear that, thank you :)
Liners are basically just handles. Once you have it out of the tub you can just saw everything off at the base with a guitar string.
First time grower, and here's what my experience has been using the outdated techniques:
First flush was very exciting. Thought I had some cobweb mold which I treated with hydrogen peroxide. I fanned and kept the holes in my monotub filled with polyfill. I had a decent first flush.
I dunked the cake after this for about three hours. It was messy and didn't feel right, but I did it anyway. I then set the monotub back up into fruiting conditions but thought I really messed it all up. However, after a few days, pins popped up everywhere and had a really nice second flush.
After my second harvest, I did "neglect tek" and just basically left it on its own for about a week. I didn't dunk or even mist it. This was an experimental run as I was satisfied with my yield anyway and I have a grain spawn bag colonizing with another set of spores that I'd like to transfer into substrate soon. I would check on it daily and did notice a strange stem with a really tiny head grow rapidly. It was essentially a stem covered in white mycelium. Around the rest of the surface, there were several aborts but several pins began to pop up (much less pins than prior two flushes). I kept an eye on the strange "mutant" but eventually plucked it and tossed it as it stopped growing. I then cleaned up the surface by removing any aborted pins. I also stopped using polyfill and just left the holes open and misted the top. On this third flush, though there are fewer pins, the pins are bigger, and I have one MONSTER growing right in the middle of the cake. I wish I had more experience as I would definitely clone it, but ultimately, I've learned that all these other outdated techniques may have actually harmed my previous flushes - smaller mushrooms with lower potency. I haven't tested this third flush yet, but the beast in the middle is surrounded by relatively large pins compared to previous flushes.
All in all, in my next grow, I plan not to fan and just stick to misting. I may use syringes to rehydrate the cake, but no dunking. Messy and unnecessary, as stated here. No fanning, and no filling up the holes. Since I've been using coir, I am not concerned with contamination (someone can correct me if I should be concerned, though). Thanks Sage.
Cheers! About the last part about not contaminating with coir. That much is true, but coir will not save sketchy/dirty spawn either. Thanks for your comment B!
@@Mycophilia Thanks Sage; what you said about sketchy/dirty spawn makes sense. These areas of the remaining substrate look dead and devoid of any further growth. I'm just glad a last bit of soldiers grew through, and they look way healthier than any of the mushrooms in my first two flushes. I think I got much better FAE this time around leaving the holes open. I don't have a traditional monotub; it's something I got online before I knew much about growing that has these clusters of holes that can be covered with a swivel. Fancy little contraption, but at least I know it's viable for growing. There aren't any gaps where the lid closes off, so I think this particular tub requires those holes for good FAE.
The thing with coir is that while it might be in some ways more resistant to contamination, if the spawn is contaminated to begin with, which is more likely with spores straight to grain, or tested LC, or agar to grain, then it won't, as MS points out, give any particular advantage by itself.
Where it is good, is as a cheap, efficient and easy to prep substrate/water reservoir for the mycelium, that's low maintenance and inert enough that clean, good quality coir often doesn't even need to be fully pasteurized.
TLDR: With good, clean spawn it's great, but with contaminated spawn, it's still going to get contaminated in turn and won't protect the mycelium. Plus, there can be low quality, dirty coir, that isn't as resistant to contamination and may in fact need to be pasteurized, just to be on the safe side.
Cloning large later flush fruits is pointless, later flushes dont produce bigger fruits due to genetics, they are bigger because the top of the substrate doesnt have as much suitable surface area due to it being damaged or taken up from the previous flushes being harvested and instead of more fruits, so it makes less, but bigger fruits. Cloning a large third flush fruit won't produce more giant fruits. Cloning a first flush giant probably will though.
Im a new cultivator & i dont even understand most terms like brf dunk case etc. then you go and throw in AMELIORATE!!
What is, "Jiffy mix"? 😮 Yes, I'm a noob! 😅
Also, why not use tweezers to reach those side pins?
Jiffy mix seed starting mix, it’s a bagged soil mix that’s sold in a lot of gardening stores/centres. As for the tweezers, on my old channel I had a video showing that! But some sidepins are inaccessible with tweezers, or you may only get a part of a fruit. Or, you might end up getting a huge chunk of substrate along with the fruit. And finally, you will not be able to get bottom fruits. Thanks for the comment Melinda!
What’s the better way to harvest? Pick and pull, or cut the fruits at the surface? I welcome all opinions and suggestions
I just pick or pull depending on genetics as some are easier to harvest than others. I cover this topic in detail in my harvesting talk video:
ua-cam.com/video/6Ul81ntxxw0/v-deo.html
Yo! What is good genetic and how to make that? Thx for your work!
That’s a loaded question with many points and intricacies, if you are serious then reach me out to my email and I will send you my mentorship prices & details:
mycophilia.official@gmail.com
A liner also helps you to lift the block out for rehydration.
No need to take out the substrate for rehydration, as shown in this video. Just mist. A liner is only useful for taking out the substrate from a monotub, to harvest (sidepins if you have them especially).
ok I hope this isn't too low brow but what if you took that clump and put it in a bigger box allowing the sidepins to grow to full size??
Sidepins will grow to their full size whether they have room or not. They’ll make room.
No air holes etc? Because of your low RH?
Shoeboxes should never have air holes. They are by design intended to have ample airflow to keep shoes from rotting via sweat.
Jiffy Mix??? You mean the box of cornbread mix you buy at the supermarket or is there some tek I'm unaware of with that nickname?
Not a TEK but another product of the same name. Jiffy mix seed starting mix.
What up sage 🍄❤️ awesome video as always! Quick question if you have time, I've been messing with steel mags for a little bit now and just haven't been very successful do to lack of moisture, they keep stalling after spawn unless I keep misting them and they still are stalled, the question is, if I did a thicker casing instead of a pseudo casing do you think it will help keep the moisture in?
First, are you sure it’s due to just moisture and not contamination? Or maybe a genetics problem. I wouldn’t try adding more casing but misting more often.
@@Mycophilia I've grown a bunch of plates out and never really noticed any contams. Could be wrong but everything seems fine up until colonization/fruiting. I'm assuming it's dry because, it looks dry and it sucks up any water I mist on it. No weird smells, nothing funky in the tubs unless I mist to much, got trich one time I believe from to much misting. My first tub is on third flush, like 4 others can't seem to get it to colonize. Tried using new bags of substrate as well, just in case maybe something was wrong with them
I Also spawned another one this morning, I made it 3:1, have been doing 2:1. I did manage to get prints off a couple flushes and I put those back to agar, maybe there's some kinda hidden or embedded contams in the old ones? So hopefully the next generation will be better. Up until now I've just been expanding culture from the original swab plates.
Also here's the last part that leads me to believe it's a moisture problem, could be wrong but when it stalls, if I mist it, I get more mycelium poking through (aerial mycelium) little by little. Whole things been weird lol. 😅
Can you innoculate with just a few drops of spore(less yhan 2 ml)
Yes, that’s how I recommend it. Otherwise you can make the grains too wet and contaminate.
How much LC would you recommend for 3lb grain bag...? I was going to do 2ml each..
Depends how dry your grain is
Thank you/
What’s jiffy mix ?
Never mind, I found your casing layer video
Don't you clog your needle with spawn and substrate when you inject water into it?
No because when you push the plunger the water stream will clear out the debris.
I always use thin black liner. The mycelium adheres to it and seals out side pinning. The liner will shrink with the substrate. Easy to lift out. I spray well after flush and tilt out any excess water after 2 hrs. Shoe boxes are great but they need to be 2in taller.
Drill 1/4 inch holes one inch apart right above substrate about 4 holes and fill another tub with water and push the tub into the water filled lower tub. Water comes in the side and fills up. No need for liner to lift out. Also jelps with fae. Cover the holes with millipore tape when finished
Do you have a stove top pressure cooker yet?
Nope
In case you haven't heard it today. YOUR AWESOME! 🍄💙
Thanks 😊
You got a like and a sub for this one
🍻
Do you dehydrate your aborts and side pins with the rest of your fruit?
Yes
Pins are the best. McKennaii pins almost pop between your teeth a lil' bit as they break open. :D-Lish-Ush
Couldn’t you weigh the shoebox in the early stages and try to mist to a similar weight?
Check recent comments, I replied to one with this exact same question :)