What a fascinating story about perhaps the greatest violinist of all time. If you had the fire why would you listen to me? You know this has got to be a true story.
This is so true. Many who are not the top in talent end up being the most successful because of the fire. I work in art and I was probably one of the least talented but I ended up having a successful career where as many of the much more talented people didn't because I outworked them over the years and kept going. A lot of them are working in non art related careers despite having much more talent than I had.
Yes, nothing is sadder than a great talent recognized too young. Orson Welles was the mid-Twentieth Century's case in point. When he was in his early 20s, 1938 I believe, he stirred up New York and Northern New Jersey with "War of the Worlds," and by 25 he had one the 1941 Best Picture Oscar for _Citizen Kane_. After that he experienced a very long slow decline into death.
I heard an NHL player say the same thing: he was never the best on the ice, but he worked harder than anyone else - and he was the one who made it to the NHL.
Heifetz had a very keen sense of who wasn't 100% into it. He knew those students wouldn't last, so he'd send them away from his masterclasses and tell them to think about if this was really what they wanted. He kicked out Eugene Fodor for "indiscipline", but in the end, he was right. Fodor just couldn't reach the heights he could have given his enormous talent.
Heifetz had a strict dress code and wouldn't let the students perform while they were part of the class. Fodor was only there for 1 year when he was 20 but said he learned more than he had in 7 years. Heifetz kicked him out because he wouldn't cut his hair and gave a concert with long hair. The rest of what say in regards to Fodor's career is rubbish.
The misconception is that the student would have to give up the violin to go run the business. And that unless he was on top of the violin world, there would be no enjoyment. And of course, the student's mind was probably already made up when he asked the maestro the question, so the slightest negative provided the remaining brake material. The truth is, that he could have run the business and still had an encouraging part-time future in the violin business. And that is taken from 58+ years of personal experience in playing guitar while earning a college education, working in my brother's music store and recording studio, marrying, raising a family, taking care of a demented alcoholic father and wife with cancer and a back injury, while at one point, "enjoying" my own A-Fib, ad infinitum ... We can do what we want to do, have to do and set our minds to do, even if we are an INFP such as I feel Mr. Heifetz was ...
Yes, quite right! And perhaps I didn't tell the story perfectly in the ways you suggest. You sound like the type of person we should have as a featured guest on our current Global Check-In service. Write to me if interested. skip.conover@gmail.com
@pillowjunkie5 Yes, that IS the Hero's Journey--the first 1/2 of life when we develop those assets. The mid-life crisis comes when we do the best we can and it is still not enough. Then we must have the fire to do what we can do, and hopefully we will have the Wisdom to know what that is.
Your kind of life has probably been a healthier one than that of most full-time performing musicians. Going out on a limb here, but ... ideally, art should be integrated into a life rather than being a life. The obsessed genius is probably not a great role model ... !
I have a sense that the "Job" archetype may not be the correct label for this story, and instead, the "Jonah" archetype is more appropriate. Job is the suffering servant who endures through to the end to receive (in Edinger's words) a "divine revelation," whereas Jonah is the man who refuses the call, and is swallowed by the great whale (the unconscious). Just look at the violinist Christian Ferras, who was perhaps one of the greatest violinists of the 20th Century (listen to his performance of the 2nd movement of the Sibelius Violin Concerto), and yet he ended his life by committing suicide, jumping off the 10th floor of a hotel building. Ferras was *too* close to the fire, and got burnt.
We acknowledge that the story may be apocryphal. Or as my Mother used to say--she was an inveterate story teller--'If it's not true, it ought to be!' Nonetheless, we acknowledge that there may better violin pieces to demonstrate fire. But, at the same time, unless we are violin geniuses like Heifetz, we cannot say how he recognized fire in a student. Your point is well taken!
It would be worthwhile to listen to the following 2:51 minute video. There are interesting comments on Haifetz's passion, but one of those points is seriously reflected in the very last note played in the following video, which can be compared favorably with notes played in "The Lark Ascending." Speaking for myself, I have heard "The Lark" in concert, and I found it a numinous experience in which I heard the passion. Reasonable listeners may differ. ua-cam.com/video/hA-NzKJdTwM/v-deo.html
There is an interesting biography about Heifetz which was on PBS a few years ago. It is the first time anything that I know of, really brought out his life story. He seems to have had a difficult life, in some ways. His father dominated him when he was a child. The" genius" child was sometimes tasked with saving the entire family from a life of struggle. There is a short story by Isaac Babel, called either "Awakening", or "The Awakening," which describes how some Jewish families from Odessa, Russia, pushed their children into studying music, hoping their child could become a great musician. In some translations it has it as " a lottery with children as its stakes" Many of the 20th century greats came from that one area of Russia.
I am glad to have contributed to this discussion. My father was a violinist with the NY Philharmonic, from 1946 to 1979. He was also a capable pianist, who subbed as the orchestra pianist on some occasions. My grandparents were immigrants from Russia, and he was subjected to what he called "the genius business" as a child. I think this left a profound mark on his life, and It's effect reaches even further to my generation in the family. So, it is an issue I have studied quite a bit.
Jr Wells told a similar story about how when he was a kid, he went to Sonny Boy Williamson II for a harmonica lesson - SBW insulted him and told him he would never be any good. Years later, when Jr was playing professionally, he ran into SBW - who pointed out to him that Jr wouldn't have become so good if he hadn't been trying to prove SBW wrong - and Jr agreed. All the same, I think it's a mistake to draw hard and fast rules from this sort of thing.
I don't get it. Meaning he's not going to build up a student from square one like a diamond in the rough? He's only going to make someone who's already outstanding just that little bit better?
That is both true and wrong. Depends on the case. Every psychologist knows an individual has specific maturation proces; some people shows "fire" when six yo, some with 20, some later. If we look at child prodigy who plays Paganini when 8yo astonishingly well, every talented student in music Conservatory studing violin when 19yo should be cancelled for not having fire. The guy mentioned was talented enough (obviously) but was cruely dismissed like garbage. What is more, the guy could be orchestra member not just as a high rankinggsolist, or music teacher. Eliminating all hopes of a young talented guy is - idiotic,even evil thing to do. Heifetz is probably the highest technical achiever in violin history, but his pedagogical or social abilities seems low. This story gives additional argument to people who often comment Heifetz playing as "cold", because cold selfish nature naturally imply cold playing and vice versa.
Yes, Jaifetz was not a psychologist, and spoke from his experience and his personal attitude. The story rings true to me in terms of an attitude about life, and how we must push through adversity. I would argue that the young man was predisposed to follow his family's business, although with a great personal sacrifice. How many of us have hung up our ice skates, knowing in our hearts that we could never reach the Olympics personally? The trick is to know what the Self wants us to do.
“A writer’s ‘sources’? His shames: failing to discover these in yourself, or dodging them when you do, you are doomed to plagiarism or reviewing.” - Emil Cioran, All Gall Is Divided
I don't even remember where I first heard it, but I was at the University of Rochester, which has the Eastman School as a part of it, so I may have heard it from a musician there. It was at least 40 years ago, so I don't actually remember the source; nor whether the story is apocryphal. What I do know is that I have told it at least 300 times, to good effect! ;-)
Not sure if this is a true story about Heifetz, because Heifetz only started giving master class in late 1960s when he was about to retire from public performance, and he passed away 20 years later in 1987. Cannot believe that "20 years later" that he met the former student in his back stage.
What a fascinating story about perhaps the greatest violinist of all time. If you had the fire why would you listen to me? You know this has got to be a true story.
This is so true. Many who are not the top in talent end up being the most successful because of the fire. I work in art and I was probably one of the least talented but I ended up having a successful career where as many of the much more talented people didn't because I outworked them over the years and kept going. A lot of them are working in non art related careers despite having much more talent than I had.
Yes, nothing is sadder than a great talent recognized too young. Orson Welles was the mid-Twentieth Century's case in point. When he was in his early 20s, 1938 I believe, he stirred up New York and Northern New Jersey with "War of the Worlds," and by 25 he had one the 1941 Best Picture Oscar for _Citizen Kane_. After that he experienced a very long slow decline into death.
Name Dallas . An example of your comment is Maria Callas. Not technically the best opera singer, but she had the fire and the passion.
I heard an NHL player say the same thing: he was never the best on the ice, but he worked harder than anyone else - and he was the one who made it to the NHL.
Wow,! How true! When you feel that fire in your heart, that inspires you to keep forging ahead, there is no denying it's manifestation in your life. 🙂
Heifetz had a very keen sense of who wasn't 100% into it. He knew those students wouldn't last, so he'd send them away from his masterclasses and tell them to think about if this was really what they wanted. He kicked out Eugene Fodor for "indiscipline", but in the end, he was right. Fodor just couldn't reach the heights he could have given his enormous talent.
Heifetz had a strict dress code and wouldn't let the students perform while they were part of the class. Fodor was only there for 1 year when he was 20 but said he learned more than he had in 7 years. Heifetz kicked him out because he wouldn't cut his hair and gave a concert with long hair. The rest of what say in regards to Fodor's career is rubbish.
Ahhhhhh, the fire!! That story was a fan to the flame, thank you for sharing!!!
The misconception is that the student would have to give up the violin to go run the business. And that unless he was on top of the violin world, there would be no enjoyment. And of course, the student's mind was probably already made up when he asked the maestro the question, so the slightest negative provided the remaining brake material. The truth is, that he could have run the business and still had an encouraging part-time future in the violin business. And that is taken from 58+ years of personal experience in playing guitar while earning a college education, working in my brother's music store and recording studio, marrying, raising a family, taking care of a demented alcoholic father and wife with cancer and a back injury, while at one point, "enjoying" my own A-Fib, ad infinitum ... We can do what we want to do, have to do and set our minds to do, even if we are an INFP such as I feel Mr. Heifetz was ...
Yes, quite right! And perhaps I didn't tell the story perfectly in the ways you suggest. You sound like the type of person we should have as a featured guest on our current Global Check-In service. Write to me if interested. skip.conover@gmail.com
@pillowjunkie5 Yes, that IS the Hero's Journey--the first 1/2 of life when we develop those assets. The mid-life crisis comes when we do the best we can and it is still not enough. Then we must have the fire to do what we can do, and hopefully we will have the Wisdom to know what that is.
Your kind of life has probably been a healthier one than that of most full-time performing musicians. Going out on a limb here, but ... ideally, art should be integrated into a life rather than being a life. The obsessed genius is probably not a great role model ... !
I have a sense that the "Job" archetype may not be the correct label for this story, and instead, the "Jonah" archetype is more appropriate. Job is the suffering servant who endures through to the end to receive (in Edinger's words) a "divine revelation," whereas Jonah is the man who refuses the call, and is swallowed by the great whale (the unconscious). Just look at the violinist Christian Ferras, who was perhaps one of the greatest violinists of the 20th Century (listen to his performance of the 2nd movement of the Sibelius Violin Concerto), and yet he ended his life by committing suicide, jumping off the 10th floor of a hotel building. Ferras was *too* close to the fire, and got burnt.
its a good story but actually the lark ascending is about the worst piece to play to demonstrate fire.
We acknowledge that the story may be apocryphal. Or as my Mother used to say--she was an inveterate story teller--'If it's not true, it ought to be!' Nonetheless, we acknowledge that there may better violin pieces to demonstrate fire. But, at the same time, unless we are violin geniuses like Heifetz, we cannot say how he recognized fire in a student. Your point is well taken!
It would be worthwhile to listen to the following 2:51 minute video. There are interesting comments on Haifetz's passion, but one of those points is seriously reflected in the very last note played in the following video, which can be compared favorably with notes played in "The Lark Ascending." Speaking for myself, I have heard "The Lark" in concert, and I found it a numinous experience in which I heard the passion. Reasonable listeners may differ. ua-cam.com/video/hA-NzKJdTwM/v-deo.html
Elgars «Lark ascending » maybe. But the one, they talk about ( and the only one actually existing) is by Vaughan Williams and utterly boring l
@@martin75r Absolutely - quite boring piece it is..... Not worth listening to more than once....
Have a listen to Zoe Beyers with the BBC Philharmonic, wonderful player
There is an interesting biography about Heifetz which was on PBS a few years ago. It is the first time anything that I know of, really brought out his life story. He seems to have had a difficult life, in some ways. His father dominated him when he was a child. The" genius" child was sometimes tasked with saving the entire family from a life of struggle. There is a short story by Isaac Babel, called either "Awakening", or "The Awakening," which describes how some Jewish families from Odessa, Russia, pushed their children into studying music, hoping their child could become a great musician. In some translations it has it as " a lottery with children as its stakes" Many of the 20th century greats came from that one area of Russia.
Thank you for this addition to our knowledge about Maestro Heifetz.
I am glad to have contributed to this discussion. My father was a violinist with the NY Philharmonic, from 1946 to 1979. He was also a capable pianist, who subbed as the orchestra pianist on some occasions. My grandparents were immigrants from Russia, and he was subjected to what he called "the genius business" as a child. I think this left a profound mark on his life, and It's effect reaches even further to my generation in the family. So, it is an issue I have studied quite a bit.
Jr Wells told a similar story about how when he was a kid, he went to Sonny Boy Williamson II for a harmonica lesson - SBW insulted him and told him he would never be any good. Years later, when Jr was playing professionally, he ran into SBW - who pointed out to him that Jr wouldn't have become so good if he hadn't been trying to prove SBW wrong - and Jr agreed. All the same, I think it's a mistake to draw hard and fast rules from this sort of thing.
Thank you so much for sharing this story! It is painfully true.
Someone told me that he said to an aspiring student: sorry I don’t cut diamonds I only polish them...
I don't get it. Meaning he's not going to build up a student from square one like a diamond in the rough? He's only going to make someone who's already outstanding just that little bit better?
That is both true and wrong. Depends on the case.
Every psychologist knows an individual has specific maturation proces; some people shows "fire" when six yo, some with 20, some later. If we look at child prodigy who plays Paganini when 8yo astonishingly well, every talented student in music Conservatory studing violin when 19yo should be cancelled for not having fire. The guy mentioned was talented enough (obviously) but was cruely dismissed like garbage. What is more, the guy could be orchestra member not just as a high rankinggsolist, or music teacher. Eliminating all hopes of a young talented guy is - idiotic,even evil thing to do. Heifetz is probably the highest technical achiever in violin history, but his pedagogical or social abilities seems low.
This story gives additional argument to people who often comment Heifetz playing as "cold", because cold selfish nature naturally imply cold playing and vice versa.
Yes, Jaifetz was not a psychologist, and spoke from his experience and his personal attitude. The story rings true to me in terms of an attitude about life, and how we must push through adversity. I would argue that the young man was predisposed to follow his family's business, although with a great personal sacrifice. How many of us have hung up our ice skates, knowing in our hearts that we could never reach the Olympics personally? The trick is to know what the Self wants us to do.
“A writer’s ‘sources’? His shames: failing to discover these in yourself, or dodging them when you do, you are doomed to plagiarism or reviewing.”
- Emil Cioran, All Gall Is Divided
this is an incredible story about Heifetz, true or not. where did you learn this story and who was the protege in question?
I don't even remember where I first heard it, but I was at the University of Rochester, which has the Eastman School as a part of it, so I may have heard it from a musician there. It was at least 40 years ago, so I don't actually remember the source; nor whether the story is apocryphal. What I do know is that I have told it at least 300 times, to good effect! ;-)
Not sure if this is a true story about Heifetz, because Heifetz only started giving master class in late 1960s when he was about to retire from public performance, and he passed away 20 years later in 1987. Cannot believe that "20 years later" that he met the former student in his back stage.
As my Mother used to say, "Never let the facts get in the way of a good story." 😉
LOL --- cannot agree more with your mom. :)
Kevin Huang definitely DOES "have the fire," so let me share a link to his professional career here: www.partybug.net/photo-video-gallery
Heifez didn't have a strong Russian accent, but good story.
Fair enough! We wouldn't know, having never heard him speak--only play. This is how the story was told to us.
He actually does slightly, watch his master classes
Nullius Verba....not even a 'master'..... Nullius Verba... One of the best....there is no best....who says, ' He is the best?"...Nullius Verba
Who is this nefarious "He" in your question? And if you say so, what is your credential to make such a judgment?
Nice Joke