Why Karl Marx Was Wrong About Capitalism - George Magnus 💸 [2013] | Intelligence Squared

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  • Опубліковано 25 лис 2024

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  • @Vtrmb1
    @Vtrmb1 Рік тому +15

    "It is curious how these followers of Marxism criticize today's society, managing to deceive many young people. However, they do not present viable solutions for the problems they point out. When they try to do so, the results end up being disastrous both from an economic point of view and historic. the results are there in the countries where they've tried.

    • @plusixty8992
      @plusixty8992 Рік тому

      are people under the impression that wage labor just mysteriously appeared? this is just history. There ae critiques things are tried and iproved upon and eventually new systems emerge. Their critiques are justified wether or not the solutions are yet clear

  • @rainerlippert
    @rainerlippert 7 місяців тому +4

    Marx did not recognize the importance of value and the market.
    He tried to explain the formation of values in a purely objective way, which meant that he had to contradict himself.
    Marx explains the formation of value with a formula:
    W = c + v + m.
    W value of a work product
    c constant capital (proportionally the costs for raw materials, supplier products, premises, electricity, and in Marx also machines, etc.) per product.
    v variable capital (proportionally the cost of labor per product - for Marx only that of human labor)
    m Surplus value (is generated by the (in Marx only human) workers in the so-called unpaid working time).
    Marx applies this formula to the production side of commodity society. For him, the market has no significance for the creation of value.
    Marx was somewhat wrong about this formula: surplus value cannot be produced; only a buyer can pay for it on the market. But there is only surplus value if the buyer replaces the costs c + v completely (!) and pays even more, namely the surplus value.
    Furthermore, the surplus value is not paid on the costs, as this formula suggests, but on the replacement of the costs.
    Both happen on the market. Since surplus value is part of value, value is therefore formed on the market.
    On the production side of the commodity society, an entrepreneur can only estimate one surplus value:
    W|expected = c|cost factor, replacement expected + v|cost factor, replacement expected + s|expected.
    On the market the value is formed:
    W|real = c|cost replacing + v|cost replacing + s|real.
    The value therefore does not reflect the cost of the expenses plus an expected surplus value, but, at least in the case of work products, the recognition of the expenses, which also takes place through the replacement of the costs (partially or completely) and usually through the real surplus value.
    For Marx, the market was only the place of exchange. In reality, the unity of market and value shows what is important in an economic sense to people in a given social (economic, technological, political, cultural, religious, historical, foreign trade, etc.) and natural environment.
    Important in an economic sense means that, for example, very little value is assigned to a glass of water in a private household, namely the proportional costs for the provider, for the fittings, etc. - nothing more is necessary. In a restaurant, you assign a significantly higher value to a glass of water because the environment requires additional costs that you accept - additional rooms, services, furniture, additional hygiene measures based on legal requirements, etc. A person dying of thirst in the desert will drink a glass of water assign even higher value.
    Political influences on value formation are achieved through laws, e.g. that catalytic converters must be used in cars, how companies must treat wastewater, etc.
    This means that its interpreters fail to grasp what is being done to central planning. Furthermore, he was unable to grasp that the formation of values is not directly brought about by workers - one can only produce the prerequisites for the formation of values, but not the values directly.
    He also did not capture the fact that machines and parts of nature are used as workers.
    There is more to say about this.

  • @roberttolbert7002
    @roberttolbert7002 Рік тому +5

    I don't think Marx was right but I dont think Smith was right either.

    • @etbuch4873
      @etbuch4873 Рік тому +1

      Recommend that you search speeches and short messages by an American Economics Professor, Dr. Richard D. Wolff, if one may. He might have a lot to fill the gaps for you.

    • @ClayShentrup
      @ClayShentrup 11 місяців тому

      he was right about almost everything. the optimal system is wealth redistribution without dead weight loss. pigovian taxes, land value taxes, UBI. fix market failures. done.

    • @rjfontenotiii
      @rjfontenotiii 10 місяців тому +1

      @@etbuch4873 Wolff is not highly regarded as an economist. Most economists think he is a quack.

    • @psikeyhackr6914
      @psikeyhackr6914 8 місяців тому +1

      If you search Wealth of Nations you can find multiple instances of "read, write and account". He used the word 'education' Eighty Times.
      Western countries could have made accounting/finance mandatory in high schools. When have capitalists or socialists suggested any such thing.

    • @C_R_O_M________
      @C_R_O_M________ 8 місяців тому

      @@etbuch4873Wolff is a joke!

  • @aristocraticrebel
    @aristocraticrebel Рік тому +4

    His predictions failed to materialize. Meanwhile a lot of Nietzsche's predictions were spot-on.

    • @connorbrady5689
      @connorbrady5689 8 місяців тому +3

      Many of Marx’s predictions came to pass, what are you talking about?

    • @fastemil123
      @fastemil123 4 місяці тому

      Nietzsche was wrong about basic evolution(follower of Lamarckism, although to be charitable one could discuss epigenetics and such but he just misunderstood it), a lot of his predictions are mired in ambiguity due to his poetic prose and lack of systematising so you can read a lot into Nietzsche if you want. Nietzsche's writing can be interpreted very differently between scholars, let alone lay-people.
      Also his writing on women, even being self-aware aren't particullay nuanced or interesting/wise.
      The difference is that Marx actually made very concrete predictions whereas Nietzsche didn't make specific claims about how economy works or would work.
      It's a lot easier to be "right" when u don't try to be precise and scientific.
      However, I believe Marx to be one of the most brilliant minds when it comes to economics even if he was limited by his relative historical position, same thing about Nietzsche when it comes to culture.
      Philosopher from the past don't need to be right about everything, they can be onto something or just provide valuable insights or springboards for discussion like Plato/Socrates even if they can be "wrong."
      Let's go beyond this right or wrong when evaluating thinkers, do I think Dante was wrong? Yea. Do I think Inferno is fun to read and can provide food for thought? Yea!

    • @fastemil123
      @fastemil123 4 місяці тому

      What Nietzschiaan predictions do you see as prophetic?

    • @aristocraticrebel
      @aristocraticrebel 4 місяці тому

      @@connorbrady5689 Marx predicted that the revolution would happen in the most developed capitalist countries. The reality was literally the opposite of the prediction. He also predicted that capitalism would make the working class poorer and poorer and thus making the revolution inevitable. Again, a false prediction. The working class has become massively richer compared to Marx's time because of wage growth.

    • @aristocraticrebel
      @aristocraticrebel 4 місяці тому

      @@fastemil123 Nietzsche predicted that the death of God would lead to a collapse of meaning. He predicted that the new ideologies of nationalism, socialism, etc. would lead to the most horrifying wars the world had ever seen. He was spot-on about that. He was also spot-on about the mediocrity of democracy and how the modern world would lead to the last man. We can see this last man everywhere today.

  • @vanessali1365
    @vanessali1365 Рік тому +1

    The truth in those jokes are undeniable.

  • @USmetallist
    @USmetallist Рік тому +4

    why is this published 10 years late 😱

    • @vanessali1365
      @vanessali1365 Рік тому

      Really! Still so relevant.

    • @etbuch4873
      @etbuch4873 Рік тому

      Old dogs know no new tricks, so they often resort to what their ancestors did in the Neolithic Age. Sorta "atavistic evolution" in some sense.
      Haven't you noticed that the US regime has been fighting Russia and China with the archaic tricks dating back to the time of Nero's latter days when Roman Empire was about to fall?

    • @vanessali1365
      @vanessali1365 Рік тому

      @etbuch, Would Xi or Putin going to be the one to do some justice for K. Marx? or, both with their unlimited partnership/friendship?

    • @etbuch4873
      @etbuch4873 Рік тому

      @@vanessali1365 , One would reckon that the PRC has been doing it for round 4 decades by now and still doing it, and better by the days.
        As to Russian Federation, they might be able to get on with it once Zelensky's black comedy comes to its finale. Thus, we shall wait to see if Russian Federation is going to be able to do that like what the PRC has been doing. Lucky for Putin though, coz he's got a successful model to emulate.

    • @vanessali1365
      @vanessali1365 Рік тому

      @@etbuch4873 hope your 🔮 ball won't let you down too badly.

  • @bbbbnnnnb9383
    @bbbbnnnnb9383 Рік тому +8

    XD, evidently he did not get his house taken away from a bank while seeing his neighbors kicked out by a rental company. He should stfu.

    • @SwitzerlandEducation4471
      @SwitzerlandEducation4471 Рік тому

      Thank you so much
      Subscribe this channel "differences" for educational content

    • @C_R_O_M________
      @C_R_O_M________ 8 місяців тому

      Or you should for not understanding the points and deflecting with irrelevancy!

  • @psikeyhackr6914
    @psikeyhackr6914 8 місяців тому

    How does planned obsolescence fit into Marxist theory? Doesn't that expoit the workers? Then economists ignore the depreciation even though the stuff was added to GDP when it was purchased.

  • @FaithsFallen
    @FaithsFallen Рік тому +7

    Capitalism is not 100% the problem Capitalism and human greed is the entire problem!

    • @PerryWagle
      @PerryWagle Рік тому +2

      Regulation.

    • @countrymusicfan9176
      @countrymusicfan9176 Рік тому +2

      Government Intervention

    • @vanessali1365
      @vanessali1365 Рік тому +1

      How to regulate greed? We aren't doing well in this area. Perhaps, human nature is part of the reason?

    • @PerryWagle
      @PerryWagle Рік тому +5

      @@vanessali1365 We are rewarding greed instead of rewarding cooperation. Moreover, rewarding greed puts the sociopaths in charge.

    • @vanessali1365
      @vanessali1365 Рік тому +1

      @@PerryWagle you ever wonder why? Or simply highly selective about what would fit your narrative?

  • @Peirithous
    @Peirithous Рік тому +2

    lol those anecdotes are spot on👏👏

  • @stronkveak5917
    @stronkveak5917 Рік тому +15

    Breaking News: Reactionary British Scholar finds something wrong about Karl Marx!

    • @leonardticsay8046
      @leonardticsay8046 Рік тому +1

      Reactionary: communist buzzword for anyone who does not comply. fascist, regressive, meanie

    • @vanessali1365
      @vanessali1365 Рік тому +2

      Nobody perfect ok, not even your great pal Karl.

    • @aristocraticrebel
      @aristocraticrebel Рік тому +1

      "Anyone that disagrees with my leftist religion and its central prophet is a reactionary."

    • @odonnelly46
      @odonnelly46 11 місяців тому

      INCORRECT. Because by no means can George Magnus be labeled reactionary! Nice try.

    • @atheistmando4976
      @atheistmando4976 8 місяців тому +1

      As a communist. The best i can get is that hes a neo-liberal. Not a reactionary.

  • @etbuch4873
    @etbuch4873 Рік тому +6

    Why George Magnus was wrong about Karl Marx?

    • @vanessali1365
      @vanessali1365 Рік тому +6

      Waiting for your answer

    • @etbuch4873
      @etbuch4873 Рік тому

      @@vanessali1365 , As I recommend to another gentleman, one could recommend that you search speeches and short messages by an American Economics Professor, Dr. Richard D. Wolff, if one may. He might have a lot to fill the gaps for you.

    • @vanessali1365
      @vanessali1365 Рік тому +4

      @@etbuch4873 I know Wolff's stuff quite well, not buying his narrative either.

  • @Peirithous
    @Peirithous Рік тому

    This guy still alive ?

  • @fullbusta5
    @fullbusta5 Рік тому +3

    By capitalism he means Keynesian model, not a free market

    • @SwitzerlandEducation4471
      @SwitzerlandEducation4471 Рік тому

      Maybe

    • @plusixty8992
      @plusixty8992 Рік тому

      marx? or this dude. cuz marx definitely lived in a time of unregulated capitalism lol

    • @fullbusta5
      @fullbusta5 Рік тому

      This dude

    • @plusixty8992
      @plusixty8992 Рік тому +1

      @@fullbusta5 you guys are weird. Capitalism isn’t just a free market. Capitalism isn’t even an model it’s a term given to a mode of production by socialists. Capitalism just means a system based on capital accumulation. So as long as the system relies on capital accumulation then it is capitalism, no matter how “free” the market is.

    • @odonnelly46
      @odonnelly46 11 місяців тому

      A so-called "free market" is what led to the creation of Socialism and Communism.

  • @funnypantshd150
    @funnypantshd150 Рік тому +2

    facts!!!!

  • @BrotherCreamy
    @BrotherCreamy Рік тому +2

    8:23 “personally I don’t think anyone thinks laissez-faire is the answer” well, you’re wrong
    Crazy how these people talk about the finance sector behaving irrationally but deliberately omit the obvious explanation, which is the artificial surplus of low/zero interest loans caused by insane monetary policy (QE infinity)

    • @ClayShentrup
      @ClayShentrup 11 місяців тому

      of course it's not the answer. If you redistribute wealth without deadweight loss you get a net utility increase. this is econ 101. also there are market failures. please take an economics course m

  • @fightforaglobalfirstamendm5617

    What was he right about? The painfully obvious and that’s about it.

    • @HM-rz8nv
      @HM-rz8nv Рік тому +2

      If it was painfully obvious that begs the question of why no other scholar went into quite as much depth in their analysis as Marx did, and marx based his work off of the work of those that preceeded him one or two centuries prior such as Adam Smith because nobody else was doing it.

    • @plusixty8992
      @plusixty8992 Рік тому

      jesus people like you have zero active brain cells

  • @user-ux3jf4ji7t
    @user-ux3jf4ji7t Рік тому +1

    Womp womp

  • @robertduluth8994
    @robertduluth8994 Рік тому +5

    No as long as capitalism is here we cannot progress

    • @leonardticsay8046
      @leonardticsay8046 Рік тому

      Your device was a product of capitalism. Give that up before you try forcing your failed system on everyone else. If communism is the way, give up everything that was developed by capitalists first (your device, your food, your clothes, your vehicle, and your home) then you can come back and tell us how wonderful life is without capitalism.

    • @enbym1793
      @enbym1793 Рік тому +10

      @@leonardticsay8046What a ridiculous, inane comment. That’s like telling Adam Smith to go live in a cave and start society from scratch if he doesn’t like feudalism. Progress is predicated on critiquing and reforming the systems that already exist.

    • @leonardticsay8046
      @leonardticsay8046 Рік тому

      @@enbym1793 but only for progress’s sake. History is not linear. It is cyclical. Civilizations come and go, and it is arrogant hubris to ignore the fact that civilizations decay from within because of decadence. You attack what got you there in the first place because of imaginary “progress”.

    • @Mao_tse_tung
      @Mao_tse_tung Рік тому +11

      You criticize without offering realistic solutions. That’s not progress.

    • @vanessali1365
      @vanessali1365 Рік тому

      Progress or not progress, we are pretty resilient about our 'struggle' if I may call it a struggle.