Ep. 57: Glenn Gould - The Private Tapes (Oct. 1980)

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  • Опубліковано 24 лис 2024

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  • @timpage54
    @timpage54 5 місяців тому +38

    In late October, it will be 44 years since my first telephonic encounter with Glenn Gould. Thus began a friendship that lasted until his death on October 4, 1982, a little less than two years later.
    It was Susan Koscis, one of my first lifelong friends in the music world, who set this up. Glenn was celebrating his 25th anniversary of his signing to Columbia Masterworks, later CBS Masterworks, and now SONY Classical. Glenn agreed to give only a couple of interviews to commemorate the occasion and Susan suggested we might like each other. The article eventually ran in the Soho News, my first cover story anywhere.
    The meeting wasn't in person, of course -- none of Glenn's "first encounters" at this stage in his life ever were -- but, after a little difficulty setting things up at WKCR-FM, I decided to record it at home and went and bought a cheap suction cup microphone that could be attached to the top left of a landline phone, just behind the earpiece. My friend, the composer and filmmaker Paul Alexander, was there that night too and spoke some to Glenn -- my thanks to him for letting me share this.
    Those who know only the scripted interview I made with Glenn about his second studio recording of Bach's "Goldberg Variations" right before his death will find a very different person here. So far as I know, this is the only recording that has preserved Glenn Gould enjoying himself in a spontaneous conversation, where both subject and interviewer found that they had a lot in common. I am willing to forgive some of the gaucheries of my youth (I had just turned 26) because I think that the talk that preserved on two cassettes presents Glenn as he really was -- friendly, courteous, playful, full of ideas and intelligence. We had many further such conversations, none of which was taped
    The 1982 "Gouldbergs" interview featured Tim Page playing a character named Tim Page effectively saying mostly things that Tim Page had in fact said in conversation with Glenn two weeks before we made the tape. We recorded that one night in late-August 1982 at a studio in downtown Toronto and when I excused myself for a moment after we were done I returned to find Glenn at the house piano.. I was so tired I could barely move -- it was almost 6 AM -- but I forced myself to wake up: Glenn Gould was playing for me! He went through most of the second movement of the Beethoven B-flat Concerto (singing along), large parts of the Elektra-Chrysosthemis scene, parts of the Sextet from "Capriccio" and then just a bit of Variation XIX of the Goldbergs.
    After about 20 seconds of the Bach, Glenn stopped and said "I can't play baroque music without my chair" with some alarm, and my private concert was over. We expected to have the "Goldbergs" radio play presented once or twice on classical radio stations and then forgotten but then Glenn had his stroke about a month later and suddenly our little drama was broadcast everywhere, after which it was issued on LP, then on CD, then on countless CDs since and online.
    But this is The Very Real Thing -- my first, absolutely unscripted, talk with a man who changed music and changed my life, all but unedited. I hope you enjoy it. (Thanks to Brian Levine and Michael Berec for making the antiquated sound so immediate, and for the titles!)

    • @hurricane_hazel
      @hurricane_hazel 5 місяців тому +5

      Thank you so much for releasing this publicly. I really wish I could explain properly why I think doing this is so important. I’ll try- I just feel that a lot of what is presented about Gould shines a spotlight on the controlling/eccentric/neurotic side of him. And yes, while he was some of these things some of the time, he was not these things ALL of the time and that seems to be the mainstream current perception of him. People who just see this- I think they are missing a lot. Hearing the conversation- where he is so warm and relaxed, charming, funny and brilliant- where he listened to you, and you both had a real give and take in the discourse, and he didn’t bulldoze over the conversation like the self absorbed egocentric people make him out to be. I just think it’s so important to reveal this for posterity. So thanks to all who made it happen.

    • @timpage54
      @timpage54 5 місяців тому +6

      ​@@hurricane_hazel This was the Glenn I knew.. The only time he deviated from this behavior was when we were actually MAKING the "Goldberg" interview, during which he was all business -- not rude but wanting no digression from the task at hand. I understood that and when we were finished, he was my funny, easygoing friend again immediately.

    • @charlotterose6724
      @charlotterose6724 5 місяців тому +3

      "a man who changed music and changed my life" He had that effect on so many of us, those who met him and those of us who didn't. You are so blessed to have known him. Thanks for sharing!

    • @lunakling3807
      @lunakling3807 5 місяців тому +7

      When I heard Glenn talking about struggling with the script for the program with Bruno, it occurred to me that perhaps the motivation behind all the scripting was not so much a need for control per se, as a desire to efficiently communicate important ideas within a limited time frame. The difference is perhaps subtle, but my thesis is that he was a perfectionist but not necessarily an egocentric.
      By the way, I do get a certain sense of spontaneity (apart from an awkward moment or two 😅) and definitely warmth from the 1982 Goldbergs interview as well! I'd say the friendship between GG and Tim Page comes through.
      This said, I must say I'm sorry Mr. Page didn't tape all their conversations... Of course, one doesn't tape one's friends. Still, what a treasure those chats would have been! Thank you so much for sharing this, as well as the account of your face-to-face meeting with Glenn.

    • @hurricane_hazel
      @hurricane_hazel 5 місяців тому +2

      @@lunakling3807 Agreed. I always presumed this was the reason behind the scripted shows and interviews as well.

  • @weimarlove
    @weimarlove 4 місяці тому +7

    A beautiful match of your intellectual and passionate minds, this is a precious historical artifact, Tim.

    • @BrianLevine-ku1xf
      @BrianLevine-ku1xf 4 місяці тому

      We couldn't agree more. What a privilege to be invited to "eavesdrop" on this private conversation, which shows both Glenn and Tim at their best.

  • @cheri238
    @cheri238 5 місяців тому +6

    Glenn Gould was in a lane of his own, a master truly.
    One of our greatest classical pianists.
    A genius in many areas in feeling of consciousness, beyond time and space etherically.
    Thank you for this, Tim Page and Paul Alexander.
    Svialoslav Richter❤
    Lyubov Bruk & Mark Taimanov.
    Harold Bauer.
    This list is long.
    Glenn Gould will remain closely in my heart forever.
    Bach, all classical music comes back to Bach.
    One cannot leave all the others out, neither.
    Composers, arrangers. Make your choices and fly with your own technique in addition without fear. Above all, have fun and love life and above all one another. Seconds and inches one is gone back to the Cosmos of the unknown.
    Free Palestine.
    🙏❤️🌎🌏🌍🌿🕊🎵🎶🎵

    • @BrianLevine-ku1xf
      @BrianLevine-ku1xf 5 місяців тому +1

      We're thrilled and delighted that you enjoyed this podcast. Please tell your friends, Cheri, and subscribe to The Gould Standard.

    • @cheri238
      @cheri238 5 місяців тому +2

      @@BrianLevine-ku1xf
      Sir, I have. Most of them are jazz and rock musicians. Unfortunately, they just make fun of me.
      It is their problem not mine.
      With deep appreciation and respect to you.

    • @BrianLevine-ku1xf
      @BrianLevine-ku1xf 5 місяців тому

      @@cheri238 Give it time, Cheri. Most people discover the riches that have been spread before them for years only when they're ready to make that leap. For the jazz folks, you might check out what Oscar said when he received The Glenn Gould Prize - you can hear an audio clip on the GGF website, under the Prize tab - click on Oscar Peterson's photo. All in good time, Cheri!

    • @BrianLevine-ku1xf
      @BrianLevine-ku1xf 4 місяці тому

      Glad to have your comments - we will pass your kind words along to Tim. Please check out our other episodes, Cheri!

  • @clearasmaude
    @clearasmaude 5 місяців тому +4

    I love this series so much! Thank you GS for keeping the legacy alive

    • @BrianLevine-ku1xf
      @BrianLevine-ku1xf 5 місяців тому +4

      You are so kind to say so! We love our listeners, and know they love music, the arts and the spirit and legacy of Glenn Gould as much as we do. Music can draw the whole world together in harmony and agreement, if only we can become wise enough to hear its true meaning.

  • @hurricane_hazel
    @hurricane_hazel 5 місяців тому +15

    One of the most charming things about this audio is Tim Page explaining to Glenn Gould what call waiting is. Thank you so much for sharing this. I have accessed it at the LAC in Ottawa, so don't worry Tim, if you HAD lost it, it is safe in the archive. There is another recording there as well, of Gould talking on the phone for over 5 hours- and that would be the tape Jonathan Cott made for his Rolling Stone interview. Perhaps, Brian, you can work on Mr. Cott next, to convince him to share? 😅This is wonderful though. There are so many insights into his work that we cannot hear elsewhere. And hearing Glenn break into various accents and alter egos, and his warm laugh- they are the most gorgeous things on UA-cam right now.

    • @mortofon
      @mortofon 5 місяців тому +2

      "You don't have that in Toronto yet?"

    • @mortofon
      @mortofon 5 місяців тому +3

      "No one seems to have a reel-to-reel these days."

    • @hurricane_hazel
      @hurricane_hazel 5 місяців тому +1

      @@mortofon 🤣It's great. Glenn can have a phone taking up the trunk of his car, but you can tell he's making a note to find out about getting call waiting.

    • @mortofon
      @mortofon 5 місяців тому +1

      @@hurricane_hazel Exactly ;-)

    • @timpage54
      @timpage54 5 місяців тому +1

      I love that too!

  • @JoelPuckettMusic
    @JoelPuckettMusic 5 місяців тому +6

    This is amazing!!! Thanks, Tim!!!

    • @BrianLevine-ku1xf
      @BrianLevine-ku1xf 5 місяців тому +2

      Tim is a national and international treasure. We are truly fortunate to have him as a friend and supporter of The Glenn Gould Foundation.

  • @lunakling3807
    @lunakling3807 5 місяців тому +8

    This is truly incredible, being able to hear this conversation! It actually feels like getting to know Glenn personally. In all the books about him, sometimes one can almost detect a sense of irritation from some recepients of his late-night calls... Well, I'd adjust my schedule and get a suitable job to be able to take his calls... ❤

    • @BrianLevine-ku1xf
      @BrianLevine-ku1xf 5 місяців тому +6

      Luna, you are a person of taste and perspicacity! I think one thing about Glenn that comes through here is his warmth, kindness, humour and earnest dedication to his art. In a time of narcissistic celebrity culture, isn't it refreshing to see a truly dedicated, intellectually gifted artist who isn't debasing his art all the time by jumping around saying "look at me, look at me!"

    • @lunakling3807
      @lunakling3807 5 місяців тому +3

      I absolutely agree, Brian. My impression is that Glenn actually rather hated being looked at, but did want to be heard, to communicate. Which he did brilliantly, of course, with remarkable eloquence and depth.
      While he would presumably appreciate the possibilities that modern technology - the internet - facilitates, I suppose he would be apalled at some of its side effects, like the casual exhibitionism of all the influencers and live streamers, etc. The polar opposite of anonimity, and "nobody caring what the other person is doing", which he speaks about in the exchange with Paul Alexander here.
      In this conversation, he really does come across as warm, kind, humorous (Glenn's laughter is so contaigeous - I'd fall in love if I already hadn't...) But it also strikes me how consistent he is. He is very much the same person here as in all his creative output - the articles, the essays, even to a large extent the scripted television programs, like "An Art of the Fugue" with Bruno Monsaingeon he's discussing here. Even there Glenn's personality does come through: passionate about music, gentle, completely unpretentious.

    • @BrianLevine-ku1xf
      @BrianLevine-ku1xf 5 місяців тому +4

      @@lunakling3807 I think you've put your finger on it. For someone who looked forward to the end of the public concert, imagine how horrified GG would have been by today's mega-tours. At the root of his feelings about public performance, we have to remember that GG grew up during the 2nd World War, and undoubtedly the memories of newsreels showing the torchlit processions of fanatics and mob mentality at the Nuremberg rallies, would have been seared into his brain. While I think of GG as a radical egalitarian, his belief in the dignity of the individual is based on the moral agency of each person, freed from collective and "mob" pressure. His feeling that solitude was a moral and philosophical necessity may in part have been a reaction against the suspension of human choice, reason, freedom, dignity, when a crowd is pressured / intimidated / "rallied" into a state of irrational amorality. All of these factors have been exacerbated and amplified by the malignant uses of mass communication and social media. But GG, ever the optimist, would - I believe - have held out hope for the triumph of the humane uses of these technologies to liberate what Lincoln called "the better angels of our nature."

  • @milkenjoyer14
    @milkenjoyer14 5 місяців тому +2

    Fantastic! He was every bit as delightful in private conversation as I imagined him to be. Thank you for sharing!

    • @BrianLevine-ku1xf
      @BrianLevine-ku1xf 5 місяців тому

      Thanks for your kind words, Mike. I'm glad you enjoyed this episode and hope you'll stick around as a subscriber, check out our other episodes and tell your friends. We'll keep 'em coming!

  • @westernkentucky5956
    @westernkentucky5956 5 місяців тому +4

    Gould's voice, to me anyway, seemed deeper over the phone in a private conversation than in his radio or television work. He had a very nice baritone. These two friends did indeed seem to "hit it off" right off the bat! Mr. Page continues to do very well to keep Gould's legacy alive, and us fans greatly appreciate that. Page was extremely well prepared for this interview, and I think it impressed Gould. The interchange just after the 30-minute mark about the Strauss Opus numbers showed off Gould's memory for sure....

    • @lunakling3807
      @lunakling3807 5 місяців тому +2

      A very pleasant baritone indeed!.. 😊

    • @hurricane_hazel
      @hurricane_hazel 5 місяців тому +2

      I really think, especially when you hear his voice on teen/home recordings (or even 55 GV outtakes) that Gould really worked at the radio/TV voice that we've all come accustomed to. It's nice to hear him relaxed and less affected here.

    • @BrianLevine-ku1xf
      @BrianLevine-ku1xf 5 місяців тому +3

      @@hurricane_hazel As for the depth of GG's baritone, you never know how many calls he'd been on that day before calling Tim - maybe a little husky from extended use? We'll never know. One reason I think they hit it off so well, aside from recognizing a certain character of mind that they had in common, was shared interests and passion. I think Glenn was always enthusiastic about his current projects, so he took glee in talking about his Silver Anniversary Audio Fantasy reccording, but he really came alive during the conversation about Richard Strauss. He and Tim had a real meeting of the minds!

    • @westernkentucky5956
      @westernkentucky5956 5 місяців тому +1

      @@BrianLevine-ku1xf They did indeed have a real meeting of the minds. This conversation seemed to kick off a beautiful friendship for the two of them. Thanks for posting another great session. You outdid yourselves with this one!

  • @enricoalvaresviolin
    @enricoalvaresviolin 5 місяців тому +3

    Many thanks indeed for posting this

    • @BrianLevine-ku1xf
      @BrianLevine-ku1xf 5 місяців тому

      Thank you! It was our real privilege to share this look into Glenn Gould's mind, personality and inner thoughts with the world for the first time! All thanks to the great Tim Page!

  • @caramelorb
    @caramelorb 5 місяців тому +8

    There is another recording of Gould talking on the phone, recorded by Glenn Plaskin around 1979 or 1980. Plaskin interviewed Gould about Vladimir Horowitz. Plaskin gave me the original 150-minute audio cassette which I sent to John McSomething (I think) at the Glenn Gould Foundation around 30+ years ago. A shame if it’s no longer in the Foundation archives. I transcribed it, but there’s nothing like listening to the conversation.

    • @caramelorb
      @caramelorb 5 місяців тому

      It’s a long interview, but not 150 minutes long. I had never previously encountered a 150-minute audio cassette so that’s what sticks in my mind. And Gould talked about Rubinstein and lots of other stuff. His comments about Horowitz were revelatory since he admitted for a time that he aped Horowitz’s programming choices. He mentions admiration of Horowitz’s recording of Czerny’s Ricordanza Variations. He admits to opening student recitals with Scarlatti sonatas because Horowitz did so. Although he’s dismissive of Horowitz’s influence on him, I think he was like a lot of piano students in the 1940s and fell under the Horowitz spell.

    • @BrianLevine-ku1xf
      @BrianLevine-ku1xf 5 місяців тому +2

      @@caramelorb Fascinating. It would be very interesting to get Kevin Bazzana's take on the fraught and complicated relationship that GG had with Horowitz - or rather, the Horowitz legacy. As for that recording, it would perhaps be a good addition to a future Gould Standard episode, if it can be located - we can restore and optimize its audio quality. Keep me posted, please!

    • @lunakling3807
      @lunakling3807 5 місяців тому +1

      Good heavens, please find it! 😮

    • @afritimm
      @afritimm 5 місяців тому +1

      @@caramelorb
      I have always wondered what Horowitz thought of Gould. I never heard of their meeting, and I have not read of any
      comments by Horowitz. But tangentially, I did recently hear or read that Horowitz went to hear Art Tatum one time.

    • @hurricane_hazel
      @hurricane_hazel 5 місяців тому

      @@afritimm Apparently after hearing Gould's piano recording of Siegfried Idyll Horowitz said he "played like a stupid ass." But then, also apparently, when Gould died Horowitz was the first to send flowers (my bets are on Wanda, though.)

  • @quinto34
    @quinto34 4 місяці тому +1

    You guys made my day!! 👍

  • @caphaddock1126
    @caphaddock1126 4 місяці тому

    Thank you very much!

    • @BrianLevine-ku1xf
      @BrianLevine-ku1xf 4 місяці тому

      A great pleasure. Please do subscribe, and check out our other Gould Standard programs.

  • @robertmuncaster3510
    @robertmuncaster3510 Місяць тому

    Radio 3 used to put on really interesting talks in the interval of their concerts. Now they have a musical interlude and it spoils it.

  • @francescaemc2
    @francescaemc2 3 місяці тому

    grazie

  • @honeyinglune8957
    @honeyinglune8957 3 місяці тому +1

    Anyone know what they're talking about at 10:40?

  • @LastMinuteAssignment
    @LastMinuteAssignment 5 місяців тому +1

    A r Rahman retweet

    • @BrianLevine-ku1xf
      @BrianLevine-ku1xf 5 місяців тому +1

      Thank you for joining us - please subscribe and check out our other podcasts, including our in-depth 2-part conversation with A.R. himself!

  • @papagen00
    @papagen00 5 місяців тому

    Interesting interview with maverak views, none of which I agree with, many were blatantly and laughably wrong -- but interesting nonetheless. Gould was an outlier, not a 'center core' pianist; I found his playing entertaining and zany like a circus show, even his famous Goldberg recording.

    • @BrianLevine-ku1xf
      @BrianLevine-ku1xf 4 місяці тому +4

      Well, we will always have people, artists, thinkers and institutions that congregate around the middle - it's what we call mainstream, where originality and creative thinking goes to die, but there is the sheltering presence of the herd. And then there are the Beethovens, Schoenbergs and Picassos and other rule-breakers who smash up people's preconceptions and chart an original path. Was Gould one of them, or, as George Szell said, merely a "nut" who was also a "genius" - right now, based on the continuing interest in Gould, that spans the globe and all media, while the public following of other keyboard titans of the past wanes, the judgment of history seems to be bending more towards genius than nut. Opinions may differ, of course - just like the radio DJ Peter Schickele played in his first PDQ Bach album, "Report from Hoople" - that announcer didn't think much of Beethoven, either . . . and come to think of it, neither did Glenn Gould! For myself, I find the rule-breakers, even when willful, arbitrary and impossible to agree with, vastly more interesting - at least they make you think!

    • @nadia0660
      @nadia0660 2 місяці тому

      ​@@BrianLevine-ku1xf, БРАВО!!! 🤝

    • @BrianLevine-ku1xf
      @BrianLevine-ku1xf 2 місяці тому

      @@nadia0660 Thank you, Nadia! Please subscribe to the podcast!

  • @findbridge1790
    @findbridge1790 5 місяців тому

    what RUBBISH!!

    • @westernkentucky5956
      @westernkentucky5956 5 місяців тому +6

      So, we have a great private recording of Gould talking about his work and his impetus in creating some of his work. Do you have another suggestion for more pertinent material?

    • @BrianLevine-ku1xf
      @BrianLevine-ku1xf 5 місяців тому +6

      Sorry you didn't enjoy the episode. We'll keep makin' 'em and maybe you'll like a future episode better. Do you mind sharing what bothered you about this program?

    • @justinpino8115
      @justinpino8115 4 місяці тому +1

      He's just being a j.o. Sorry for the people forced to be around him.