Gold Recovery from ICs Without Incineration - Part 3 - The full process!
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- Опубліковано 4 вер 2016
- I know the video is long ! Hopefully those people who are actually intending to try this will appreciate the detail!!
In this video I show the full process of recovering gold from integrated circuits without any incineration of the chips.
Also very happy to take requests for videos if there is something you guys would like to see.
If you have some interesting material you would like me to run, please feel free to get in contact via the comments.
If you enjoy this series and end up making a few $$ out of the information, please feel free to throw a dollar my way, bitcoin address: 1EpGuPa2VtUVWjGmgWRmFicNKMFZSGhfLr - Наука та технологія
That was the best spent hour and half on UA-cam in years and I spend 4 to 5 hours a day watching!! Great stuff, saving to watch again!!!
Have a GREAT Day!!!!
Thanks for the comment Shane :)
Thank you for taking the time and effort for detail i have lost a bit in the last sections in my previous attempts and hopefully get it right now.
No worries, thanks for the comment. There is also a video I made a while ago for another member that shows a better washing process than this video, might also be worth a look. 99% of the losses tend to be in the washing steps. - ua-cam.com/video/BQFNG_FXgZg/v-deo.html
I finally got the chance to watch this video and loved every minute of it. Very interesting and informative. Good job...
Thanks for taking the time to leave a comment Barry, much appreciated.
As a baker myself when hydrating cocoa powder that is also as fine as talc, I add a little water to the cocoa stir and it absorbs much easier first turning to a mud then loosen up when adding more liquid.
I've just come across this video I bought a blue bowl i week ago and have done exactly what you have done too the t .your videos are by far the best on the net .i commend you for the precise content and the easy description on how to recover gold
bloody fantastic fantastic fantastic video kind regards Tim from AUSTRALIA victoria
Always appreciate your comments and feedback Tim! Yep, the blue bowl is amazing, the key to awesome results is patience and also classification. It works best when all the particles you feed into it are roughly the same shape and size. I have a few different sieves that I run the material through before the blue bowl, that way I run all the 100-mesh stuff together, then all the 60-mesh etc.
Successful Engineer just been out in the work shop and I have used 2 systems the blue bowl also a miniture slue it 2 foot long with small corragations on a rubber mat type system its runs on a 25cm fall with a crystal clear flat surface of water most of the gold is stoped by help way and it works very well also .i have about 100kgs of gold plated and gold filled jewellery im reverse plating and I'm thinking it's a good way to do pins as well .love to be friends on face book regards Tim .
When hydrating powders I have always found adding a little water to the powder and stirring works so much better than adding powder to water. I've never tried powdered chips though but worth a try! Very informative video, thanks.
Great little tip there, thanks. Will certainly try it that way round next time!
It's so fine ,like flour. Pretend your making pancakes,minus the cooking an eating. 😂
Bao tiền cái máy ngiền đó hơơ bạn
So glad I just rewatched this. I was thinking of getting one of those grain mills and now I can save my $$$.
Hey Jon, yeah, I actually still have that old one sitting around here after a few years and still have never really used it. At some point I might do a proper clean of it and sell it to someone who actually wants to mill some grains, but I honestly didn't find it super useful for Gold recovery.
a gold recovery fan, here " ralph thomas gerwing " in Vancouver Canada, " come and visit " and i enjoyed this from start to finish, to that end, i got in an online poker game, for small coin, and am in the money now, i am finding more and more chips, by watching these videos and looking for what is considered more valuable in chip recovery, big thing for me, is the time, and set up. i would like to do between 1 killo to ten kilo grams a process. on average grade material " not mil spec " i am getting just under 1/2 of one percent by weight, recoverable gold, which i think is at 85 percent of recovery. thanks for the strong effort, on doing things right and logical.
great video, one of the best, i thank you. cheers, come and visit vancouver
Thanks for the comment Thomas, what kind of material do you do mostly ? plated items or ICs ? I hover somewhere between 0.1% and 1% of raw weight depending on my starting material.
this is my better material, , pre 79 heavy current device, the greater the current on mil spec ic's the thicker the gold bond wire inside. this running towards your 1 percent or just a little better, scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/12000860_952250604835824_3663510515755880883_o.jpg?oh=c5e747500de3268455dc60e4aab772e8&oe=59A0FD91
Your videos are so informative, and step by step.. I love it all. Many thanks for your time of doing these...
Thanks for the comment Timothy, feel free to ask if there is ever anything that is not clear enough in the videos.
Is there a little chip inside these before they get pulverized? Would it not be easier (if possible) to break that down if so??
Which part of the video are you referring to Timothy ?
Sorry, it may not have been one of your videos... I just saw an IC that had like a silver glass like center... ??
lol, no worries, had me a bit confused there. There are 2 types of ICs that may be what you are referring to, some have silver round bits that are built in heat-spreaders, others have little round glass windows. In all cases you pretty much have to break ICs apart to get to the Gold bond wires. Generally with plastic ICs, we machine them down to micron sized particles to ensure that chemicals have access to the bond wires.
Magnetic separation modification: I like your concept of the separator but I did not like the idea of standing there and spooning in powder for long periods of time so I came up with a slight modification. I got a large plastic funnel about 13 cm at the wide mouth and just let it sit in the top pipe. I made a filter out of plastic fly screen and put it into the plastic funnel. I got an electric back vibrator/massage unit and strapped it to the top of the plastic tube. I emptied my whole sandwich container of powder into the funnel and turned on the vibrator and walked away. The vibrator breaks up the powder and the fly screen mesh lets the powder drop loosely like snowflakes. Works great and a time saver. Cheers.
Nice idea, love it.
I have a few gold feet ICs and quite a few regular ICs, can't wait to
try something like this. Going to save them up until I get enough to
worry about. I love that you show all of your details. That
calculation could NOT have been any closer!! Great job sir...
Thanks for the positive comment David, yeah, didn't look like I was going to get there, but I figured I would show the result, good or bad. Looking at the powder can sometimes be a bit deceptive, it always seems to weigh more than it looks to me.
Excellent
that same system called hydrocycle is used in agriculture to remove sand from drip irrigation systems
the answer is that it works the other way
Thanks for sharing your work
ismael342 Thanks for the comment, I will go google that, always looking for new ideas !
Your command of English is spectacular. Well done. Nice recovery process.
Thanks for the comment Kalle
thank you for your detailed and helpful content bro!!!!you could eliminate glare on water by rigging some soft white light under the blue bowl and toggle shop lights off/on !
Thanks for the tip! Appreciate the comment.
Excellent! Doing some awesome work!
Thanks Paul, appreciate the comment!
I couldn't figure out what the bowl mole was that he was talking about until I saw him put the stuff into a ball mill. I'm usually pretty quick at decoding ridiculous accents, but this was definitely to a new level for me.
your videos are second to none .outstanding you have tought me so much i thank you god bless Tim from AUSTRALIA victoria
Thank you very much for the kind words Tim. All the best for 2018 and feel free to ask if there is ever anything not clear enough.
I have learned much about matel but video of Aus give me more knowledge about. Different type of separation ok pdgosai
Thank you that appreciate my effort to in video
Media ok
I just made one of those bowls. After running several test batches it seems like you can feed it material quite quickly. As long as it still behaves like water and does not slurry up the feed speed does not really do much for the result. So it seems from my limited tests so far.
Excellent video thank you for sharing all your tips and advice much appreciated
Thank you for posting this! I've really learned quite a bit and got a few ideas on how to automate/streamline a few areas (except for the chemical ones).
Thanks for taking the time to leave a comment, sorry for the late reply !
First off..Great work..thank you for the videos...maybe a slightly greater axis angle for the second half in the tumbler would speed up the process a bit..love the experience thanks again and keep it up!
Thanks for the positive comment, have a few more interesting videos in mind!
Get some nesting sandwich boxes, fuse some suitable metal mesh over an opening cut into the bottom of each, then you have a stacking set of sieves and the ability to take out a chosen mesh size range for further processing.
I am very happy to see you ànd thanks to you
hi there, just an idea, on the blue bowl put a small length of hose fixed on in side of bowl with the bottom of the piece of hose just in front of the water inlet with a funnel fixed in the top of the piece of hose, this may help the gold dust to start/stay at the bottom of the bowl from the start of pouring the dust in. mick from uk, BRILLIANT VID
Hey Mick, thanks for the comment, yes, certainly sounds like it would help, you would also be able to feed the system without having to stop the water flow! Well worth a try!
This comment is not directed at anyone I just watched the video and I couldn’t believe all of your hard work and for so little return wow I was expecting a lot more than what you got oh my giddy aunt. I’ve been saving all the boards from satellite dishes and other odd and sods now watching this I am seriously wondering if it’s worth doing or not what do you all think I should do I’ve got 24kg of LMBs boards as well as a lot of e waist approx 6kg should I keep going or stop and send it to a recycling plant. Great video very informative and educational keep going bud.
Hi Iain, yes, from memory the ICs I was processing there yield around 1g per kg of ICs, that is actually incredibly Gold dense if you consider that often in mining they only get 1g of Gold out of every 1000kg of rock! But, as you noted, that is a hell of a lot of work for not much money. Generally I try to target material that yields more than 1g/kg, black-tops from gold corner BGA chips are closer to 10g/kg, high yield, thin square flat pack ICs are around 3g/kg. Good quality fully plated old pins are around 4g/kg. This is definitely a hobby, would be near impossible to make a living out of Ewaste Gold recycling in a first world country, even more so once you start taking into account how much time is spent dealing with the waste too! If you are keen to learn and pursue it as a hobby, then it can be a great hobby, if you are just after the cash, you would probably be way better off just on-selling the material. Thanks for the comment and good luck :)
Thanks for The great video I was wondering as to where you vent your fume hood and if some type filter would be needed?
Hey mate, thanks for the comment, my fume hood only vents externally, reasonably high up. This is pretty common for very small scale chemistry. If you wanted to add a wet scrubber, that would be great, but unfortunately I can't help much there. The real key is to always minimize the amount of vapors coming off wherever possible!
👍👍Thank you for sharing your knowledge and experiences very appreciated it here 👊😎🇺🇸
love the ingco bench grinder in the back
As a new but extensive hobby I really enjoyed your video I have used Ap solutions for ram fingers reverse electroplating on pins have processed a few grams but collecting more daily... Just wanted to thank you for explaing in detail the process steps etc for this method ...your friend SONNY FROM Denver....
Hi Sonny, thank you for the kind words. Sounds like you are doing very well, good luck and be safe.
I am really digging your ball mill set up. I had been thinking about using a propane tank, but wasn't sure how I was going to spin/turn it. But seeing your set up is awesome!! And if you was to use 2 or 3 balls half the size as you had, would it work better/faster??
Hi Bruce, this type of crushing mill really relies on picking the ball up and dropping it on the material, so a bit different from a normal ball mill. I tried it with some smaller balls, but ended up settling on the one large ball. Once you have the tank spinning, you can try the smaller ones, and even try lots of small balls more like a regular ball mill.
Hello I'm new to your channel. But I think that it's safe to say that you can call your wetted particals a "slurry". I really enjoyed watching this new non furnace method.
Thanks for taking the time to leave a comment, appreciate it.
Teeny tiny teeny weeny truck loads! That's really cool that you can recover gold from that stuff but having been through the whole process myself I found that I actually got a lot more gold by shoveling black sand from the river bank and instead of spending my weekend racking my brain and measuring chemicals I spent my weekend drinking a beer catching a fish hanging out with the girlfriend and leaving with more money than I started with can't wait to get one of those blue bowls and head out to river next weekend.
Yeah, fantastic if you live somewhere like that. Unfortunately no easy Gold in the ground anywhere near where I live!
gotta love how youtube links you to the 3rd video in a series without giving any links whatsoever to the first 2 videos.
😆
Love your work. Have built my own ball mill and magnetic separator and blue bowl using your 3d plans. Question on this video you don't appear to have pyrolised the chips? do you still use that step in the process?
good question no answer though any chance of one plz ill subscribe lol
Very Nice process. I like how you showed everything. My process is very similar but it took year of trial and error to put together. Anyways excellent job
Thanks for the comment, it took literally months of working at this to get a process that works, and I'm not 100% happy yet, still trying to improve various parts.
First I incinerate the chips that is just so i can crush them easier. But the way you are doing it works great also. I dont do any sifting I just throw all the crushed chips into a beaker and put hydrochloric acid in. then I either add an air bubbler for a week or add hydrogen peroxide to dissolve the copper. when I am satisfied that all the copper and other base metals are dissolved I extract the gold using mercury. Then I melt the amalgum into a bead then go through the aqua regia refining process. I know a lot of people frown on the mercury but it is an excelllent way to collect the gold. That is my preference though. Whenever I go to the aqua regia part of the refining I prefer to have beads of material that I can watch dissolve. It takes the guess work out of the aqua regia process. You had a nice solution to tell when the reaction was done and to tell if all the nitric acid was gone.
You ever though about putting a screen on your ball mill? Then when the powder get to a certain size it would go through the screen into a collection container. Then it would be a continuous running operation. Chips in the top, and powder out the bottom.
For me it was more a case of controlling the dust, if you incorporate an outlet, you probably want to also seal the whole thing inside some secondary container. I guess if you really wanted to go next-level, you could mill it wet and have the outlet run directly into a sluice.
Thank you very much very helpful
Excellent work, well done! I'm sure if I tried to buy the chemicals to do this here in England I'd soon have a SWAT Squad breaking through my windows lol
LOL yes, I think Nitric acid is quite difficult to buy in the EU. If I couldn't get hold of the acids, I would probably next look into either smelting or Melting + Copper Electrolysis if I wanted to pursue this hobby.
Great video! Will this process work with incinerated chips that were ground to the same consistency as you show here? I left my incinerated chips in the ball mill too long, or so I think! Or, is there a different method that should be used for burnt chips ground to talc consistency?
Hi Alvin, I 100% believe there is no such thing as material milled too fine, so you have probably done exactly the right thing. My current process (which I will video at some point in the near future) also involves Incineration before ball-milling and I usually aim to have the vast majority of the material go through a 100 mesh sieve. Let me know how you go and feel free to ask advice if you get stuck anywhere.
Successful Engineer Sincerest thank you! Your videos, as well as yourself have become my "go to" for help. You have the most informative videos I've watched, and I've watch many! Please keep up the great work! Thinking that I had screwed up this batch, I was just trying to assemble a vibrating platform made from a Homedics back massager in hopes of trying to get the gold to settle to the bottom! I'm not sure if it would work, however, I may still try that until I can assemble a blue bowl for myself! Again, thank you sincerely!
Gold floats on clean water despite the fact its 19 times more dense, adding jet dry or soap prevents it from riding on the surface tension and going into the tailings
Absolutely, bond wires love floating away!
"I might do that fucking again..."
Glorious!
Hello, I think this is a wonderful set up! Ever thought of setting something up to take advantage of Eddy Currents?
Hi Chris, thanks for the comment. Yes, actually I have built a couple of prototypes with strong magnets spinning on the end of a disc, hoping to separate metals from epoxy, but have not really had much luck with it to be honest. I think industrially separating with static electricity is more common for powdery material. The washing + blue bowl procedure gives great results when done well (I have another video showing an updated wash procedure) but they are incredibly time consuming, I would love to figure out a way to speed it up!
Ah yes, I saw that video with the blue bowl. Again, awesome! I was trying to figure out how I would process all my own stuff, when I saw something with Eddy Currents and how this is how some of the large industries help sort things out, and this was the first video I could remember that you did some sorting. I am working on creating my own ball mill, and I really like your set up with the PVC with the magnets, so I think I will give that a try. But before I really get things going, again, I am trying to figure out the best process that I can do with the materials I have access to. I look forward to seeing all the other videos you put out! Ever thought of attempting to pull a majority of the metals out of a circuit card?
Hi Chris, the Gold recovery for me is just a hobby, so I don't usually worry too much about all the other metals. I think for the vast majority of scrap, the Copper value would far outweigh the Gold value. My understanding is that a lot of E-waste recyclers are actually Copper recyclers and the Gold is just an added bonus.
Excellent video.
One word . brilliant. Tim from Australia
Thanks Tim, as always. Great to hear you are having good luck with the ICs and bond wires over there. Persistence pays off!
@@successfulengineer I sent you a email in regards to a gold cube and fine gold recovery.
Use JB weld and shorten the exit path on that grinding machine where those chips fall out so the chips get recycled through the machine more
I'm curious if using a magnet to remove ferromagnetic materials from the bulk may actually reduce yield. Not because any material containing gold can be trapped by ferromagnetic material, but rather because nickel is frequently used as an underplate for gold. If you capture some of this nickel you may end up catching some gold that is plated on it as well.
The Gold we are catching here is in the form of bond wires, so no no Ni underplating, but yes, that would certainly be a consideration for any plated Gold parts. You do actually lose a small amount of Gold with the magnetic separation because the bond wire usually breaks off the component leg, leaving a small Gold ball on the leg. I reckon the lost Gold is worth it for the huge reduction in acid usage and waste creation though!
Very common sense smart. It's an honer watching you work.
Appreciate the comment Scott
'n Boertjie in die vreemde? Hou so aan, ek geniet jou videos baie. Groete uit Namibia.
Hi Willie, baie dankie vir jou boodskap, groete uit New Zealand.
Good job!
Yield is spot on.
Make sure the hammer mill is fully enclosed for ceramic chips. Inhaling the dust will cause mesothelioma
For sure, it is good practice to avoid breathing pretty much everything other than clean air. I eventually started running my various crushers and mills wet to keep the dust down.
An O shaped Cake mould adjuted would be easier and more durable than the blue plastic vortexer!
Thanks a lot for the tips
Amazing information, thanks for sharing.
Appreciate the comment
Very interesting...I've always known there were trace amounts of gold in electronics...just imagine what is being dumped in land-fills...Is there an industrial scale-up of this process? Seems like it could be quite profitable on a large scale?
Hey Tom, yeah, there are a few big players around that recover precious metals from E-waste. On industrial scales, they tend to actually be Copper refineries, making most of their money out of the base-metals, the precious metals being the cream on top. Some of the older stuff I have worked with can yield around 10g of Gold per kg of material, the stuff demonstrated in this video was some of the lowest yield material that I worked with.
Hi Again. I have found that if you wet you material into a slurry, ( I use a paint mixer on an electric drill in a ten gallon bucket with rinse aid and water added, as I have 30Kg of crushed ram chips to put trough the blue bowl ), you can slowly pour the material in to the bowl a little bit at a time and wait for the bowl to do it's thing , then repeat. I use a small cup for this purpose. But you need to stir the materiel in the cup just to keep in a slurry form and stop it settling in the bottom of the beaker then it pours in ok. It's a lot faster than using a spoon with thick material. I hope this helps.
Hi Peter, have you seen my video where I built the auto-feeding hopper for chip slurry ? I think I was feeding it into a sluice, but same basic idea. Yeah, I gave up pretty quickly sitting around for hours doing it by hand! Wow, 30kg is bloody nice! Hope you get a good payday!
great stuff.
If you are still using your blue bow try to line the bottom with silicone. 100% silicone for whatever reason is very tacky for gold. Something to do with the hydrophobic nature of the two. I am a gold prospector In an area with very very fine gold. It works better than you might suspect.
I think at some point all the Neodymium in the magnets will be a profitable except that the magnets are getting g smaller compared to 15 years ago. I still have some I use as a tool magnetizer.
Same thing I use mine for. Damn things stay magnetized for a long time. And I have one philips head that refuses to demagnetized now lol.
You can eliminate the use of nitric acid by using hydrochloric acid and hydrogen peroxide to leach out the copper and other base metals as suggested by another viewer. You can also eliminate the nitric acid when dissolving the gold by using calcium hypochlorite in place of the nitric acid. (It is a pool chemical and found in bleach.). The perception step is the same as done in you video. Great job, by the way!
Thanks John, I have not tried using peroxide, I assume it would be much slower than using Nitric ? also, I believe you can also put gold into solution with peroxide and HCl. Would definitely have to stannous test the solution before sending it to waste processing.
I am not sure of the chemistry but I have never found a trace of gold after a HCl H2O2 leach. Still, my copper leach solution gets dropped out with zinc or aluminum, and electro refined in a cu H2SO4 cell. The slimes are put aside for my retirement fund. Much more information can be found at the Gold Refining Forum. Your information would be a great addition to the group. Thank you for what you have shown us here. Be safe!
Better way. After you think the tin is in solution, filter the mixture. After the acid solution had drained from the filter, rinse the solids off really good. Add baking soda to neutralize the liquid. This will eliminate the waste you will have stannous chloride and salt water solution. Put the solids in a clean beaker for the nitric acid.
Thanks, that is actually a pretty good plan, certainly much faster and simpler than washing the acid out, and much more likely to get all the acid. Will give this a try next time.
Could you eliminate all of the rinsing by simply adding UREA to neutralize the acid,, thus saving a boat load of time ? Fantastic Video By The Way !!!
Hi Steven, part of what I'm trying to accomplish there is also to wash out all the Stannous Chloride solution that was formed by Tin dissolving into the HCl, not sure whether just neutralizing the solution would cause problems later on. Thanks for the comment!
Thank You, I have been collecting electronics for scrapping and have not yet done any of the actual process. That's why I watch all of the videos I can to see which way will be the most efficient. I think I would like to try the reverse electroplating to eliminate some of the chemical fumes but have not settled on a process at this time. Thank You !
Yes, the reverse electroplating (concentrated Sulfuric cell) works great, I will definitely do a video on it at some point. Unfortunately I don't process much plated waste, so probably only run it about once per year. But quite simple and very safe with some basic precautions. Feel free to ask any questions as you progress, always happy to help!
Hi I like your video very much and you have explained the process very well, could I make you a question on how to process and recover gold from a heavily gold plated brass tape Thankyou from Donatello Italy
Hi there, research the Sulfuric Acid Deplating Cell (my video recovering gold from plated spoons shows this) It is pretty much the least waste method of recovering Gold from Brass without having to dissolve all the Brass
great work thanks for sharing it .but i have a qustion .did you use a low type of ic chips or it was the heavy stuff
Do you mean the yield from the chips ? If that is what you meant, then these chips were 100% average, for most mixed ICs, I expect about 1g of gold per 1kg of chips, which is exactly what I got here.
thanks . but what about the magnetic stuff that u catch withe your separator .did u do them . i think there is quite good amount of gold also
I have not processed the magnetic parts yet, but I did pan some of the magnetic stuff to make sure my vertical separator was not catching any bond wires, I couldn't see any bond wires, so I'm pretty sure there is no loose gold there. It is possible for little bits of bond wire to still be stuck (soldered / welded) to the magnetic pins, but it would probably not be very much considering how much gold I'm getting. Have you processed these magnetic pins before ? I'm not sure what would be the best process for them.
aqua rejia is good way and if u melting them using oxigen tourch and in the melting point add some lead and try to oxidize the iron withe the torch and add some borax till u finish and get a nice nugget of metals free of lead . i did this and get some gold .
Awesome man, that sounds very very interesting, if you ever want to make a video, I would love to see that process. Usually dealing with the iron / kovar pins is too much hassle for me. I know some people dissolve the iron with boiling HCl, but I'm not a fan of boiling acids. I will look more into the melting / oxidizing process.
You should show the process of MLCC's on one of your future videos.
Hey Nick, I have always been interested in Gold, so never really got into capacitors, they can have good amounts of PGMs and Silver, but usually also a ton of Tin!
Try dumping the whole tub in at once. Mightvget a finer grind that way.
You're doing much more than I am but.....using an electric coffee bean grinder I bought second hand, I can turn my chips into a fine powder in a single minute.....I think maybe too fine as I haven't done the final chemical processing so I don't know if I went too far. No idea how much gold I have in my dust! Just thought I'd give you the idea.....great vids, by the way.
Yeah, I've tried coffee grinders and blenders and couldn't get them to last long enough. You want that powder to be as fine as possible, ideally all your powder will go through at least a 60 mesh sieve, even better if it passes through a 100 mesh. Let me know how you go when you get to the processing.
Very timely process for the amount of extraction but good video very detailed
Hi there, yes, absolutely, it is very much source material dependent, the same basic process and time yield 10x the amount of Gold with better starting material easily. In this case I just worked with what I had and knew what yield I was expecting as a test.
Amazing video! But it would be even more amazing if you could put subtitles on it! (Even if they are auto-generated)
Thanks for the comment, will look into it!
I imagine the hydrophobic nature of gold would be responsible for it floating away in powder form. People often have this trouble when panning.
a few drops of jet dry solves the float problem
nusrathulla444@gmail.com
How small of a particle size do you need for the hydrophobic nature to over power the density, with and without soap if they are different sizes? BTW what is particle?
@@alienrocketscienceshared8454 I don't care , I just want to know the size that floats.
@@alienrocketscienceshared8454 with soap
Sieve.. 😐😂Dis n sif my vriend, kom met sulke hoër Graad Engels haha.. Dankie vir die info en jou tips & tricks 👍
Haha, verseker. Baie dankie vir die boodskap!
tape a brown paper bag on the outside of the ball mall and wad up another for a cap in the hole! that will greatly reduce the bell effect!!!
Haha, yeah, that banging got old eventually for sure!
Awesome video!!
Thanks ! appreciate the comment :)
Hi one thing I done the VERY first step I put all my chips in AP for a few weeks in the sun and it eats of all the legs and deep inside of the chips giving you lots and lots of less metal to deal with and keep AP and use again and again the better it gets
Yeah, Ive seen that done a few times, I always tried to avoid too much AP due to the huge amount of waste it creates, costs a lot of time and money to treat it for disposal. You also have to keep feeding it extra HCl as the solution get saturated with Cu2Cl
@@successfulengineer yeah but not much top up better than making new batch for new product
What if you put a hole in the ball mill container, right behind the "fingers" where it wouldn't come into contact with the ball, and put fine screen material over it, so when something reaches the appropriate size, it automatically falls out into a collection container placed under it?
Probably quite a good idea, having too much powder in there could slow down milling of the larger parts, will look into that a bit.
A couple of items. First he could have created some Aqua Regia (3 parts HCl and 1 part HNO3 (nitric) acid). The reason is that the HCl will dissolve the Au and Pt (not the AG), and the HNO3 will dissolve any Ag but not the Au. Afterwards the Au can be dropped out of solution, followed by the Pt, and then the Ag. The brown to black powder would be the AuCl (gold Chloride) which then can be mixed with some borax after it is filtered and dried and then fired leaving close to pure gold at around 0.998 if done correctly.
There are a few things wrong there, firstly, it is almost never a good idea to pre-mix aqua regia, much better to have a large excess of HCl and add the HNO3 as required. HCl will not dissolve Gold, both HCl and HNO3 are required to dissolve Gold. Silver also does not dissolve in Aqua Regia, it forms a Silver Chloride layer that greatly slows down the reaction. It sounds like you have some chemistry background with no experience in the real world application ?
very clean powder, great job. throw the other chips back in and run them next time. always love your videos friend, always....take care
Thanks Mike, got a few more in the pipeline at the moment.
thank you friend you es at I am so poor and ain't looking for much further but I know those that can't GodAnd may he continue to bless you and your consideration of others less fortunate I am well without TY GBEE
You alright Tracy?
Awesome video! You suppose there's a way to refine this power without nitric?
Thanks, it is definitely possible, just a bit more difficult without Nitric. You want to remove the iron based base metals magnetically, then you can use AP to remove the copper based alloys, then finally you can look at "Poor Man's AR" to dissolve the bond wires. Possible, but certainly a lot more hassle. There are ways of making Nitric acid from Nitrate fertilizers, may also be worth investigating.
Successful Engineer I'm just getting ready to start processing 5.5kg of ic chips and I was going to ask the same question as Robert. I live in England and the general public can't purchase nitric acid here. I'll definitely have to go down the ap route. I've already tried poor man's ar and it worked fine for me, so fingers crossed that I'll get some good results.
Hi Nick, this can definitely be done without Nitric acid, AP is just slower. 5.5kg should give you a decent amount of Gold. Make sure you remove as much unwanted material through sieving, magnet, sluicing, blue-bowl etc. From 5.5kg of chips you should only have about half a cup of concentrates at the end before you use acids. Good luck and feel free to shout out if you get stuck anywhere and need a bit of advice.
Hi Robert, Sorry, missed your question somehow, Nitric acid is not 100% required for Gold recovery, it is just a very fast way to do things. AP works very well to dissolve away copper and poor-man's-AR should work (slowish) to dissolve the Gold once all the base metals are dealt with.
Successful Engineer this will be my 2nd attempt at this process so I'm going to take it each step nice and slowly. I incinerated about half of the material over the weekend and I've pretty much sieved all of that. I did find quite a lot of chips that were still black in parts so I'm going to have to incinerate them again. I've also taken all of the magnetic pins out of the material. To be honest I don't mind if it takes me 2 months to process it all as I want to make sure I do it correctly. Thanks for the offer of help, I'll definitely get in touch if I get stuck at any point.
Could you add "sive window" that allows the fine powder to escape this giving the ball a better chance to break up the remaining IC's. The exit wouldn't need to be very big and would then allow you to add more IC's as its working. Would a blender help you mix the powder as well? just a thought..
Hi Jon, could definitely add a screen that will allow the super fine material to escape the mill, with how I built this though, the screen would have to be very robust if the balls could impact it.
@@successfulengineer Was thinking maybe 3-4 screen equal distance apart no bigger then an inch wide or drill holes around the area and mount screen on outside. Just a thought, as I'm sure you know best how it might work. Or maybe plasma cut very small slots around the cylinder much like a hammer mill screen that mbmmllc does for their hammer mills.
Dude i just started your video and i gotta say get a mini jaw crusher and if you can weld make a chain mill. The first machine you dont like is similar to chain mill just your is a hammer mill that sucks....and your ball mill is annoying and takes days the fine powder protects they thick chunks your trying to break up the chain mill will turn them to dust quick as hell.....jaw crusher will crush big pieces to a nice even fragments for the chain mill to powderize. That way you dont have three days of thumping in your garage. Just becareful of dust from chain mill just make a tube that drops into a bucket with lid on it to contain the dust. And for your multi metals you can use acids or cornstarch to extract the gold through percipitation.
Yep, you will see one one my videos a bit later on I welded up a chain mill that worked pretty well, as you say, dust was a bit pain. If I'm doing the chain mill again I would run it wet for sure. The ball mill (really a crushing mill) actually worked effortlessly for a very very long time, it is not the fastest, but I could just leave it running in the workshop and eventually it would turn basically anything into super fine powder. I've always wanted to build a proper ball mill, might get onto that at some point.
Could you also use HCL and peroxide to remove the copper? Nitric acid is a bit scary to work with and like you said it is expensive
Hey David, honestly, pretty much all acids are scary to work with and obviously require a level of safety equipment and care. A single drop of concentrated peroxide can blind you. But generally yes, you can always use a Copper(II)Chloride (also known as AP) leach to remove Copper. Obviously you have to be careful with the Peroxide to avoid dissolving Gold. Nitric acid is just a much faster way of achieving the same outcome, as long as you can get hold of it in your location.
How much did the button you used to kill the acid weigh? I didn't hear you say anything about removing some powder to replace what you dissolved in the cup, did you get .5 or a lot less when you take into consideration the button you threw in the cup?
Gold dissolves very very slowly from a solid button like I showed in this video, I had that button in the solution for only a few seconds to judge the amount of free Nitric, so no appreciable amount of Gold would have come from that button. Would probably need a very very good lab balance to see the amount of Gold lost from the button. In this early video I was still evaporating the solution down to denoxx, these days it is done in a few minutes with Sulfamic acid.
Put a thick black marker line on the vertical, on the far inside of the bowl, turn on your water and drop a cork or fishing bob into the water. wait until the circulation of the water and bob are steady, then time the number of turns the bob makes in a minute. Now you know your RPM and can adjust up or down and forget about constant monitoring the flow.
You can try using ethyl alcohol (cheap gin) to first wet your power first, then add water, this is something that works well with some very fine painters pigments, including dyed stuff, or you can try some artist's ox gall fluid, or even adding some urine to the water to break down the water tension and allow each particle to be wetted completely, and shed those pesky air bubbles.
If you try these, let us know how it worked.
Hi Eli, nice suggestions! Will certainly keep them in mind for next time!
nice job
This is fascinating to see your very unique solutions to the many complex problems we face. Is it possible for you to edit this and somehow mute those segments with the shopvac
Appreciate the comment Douglas, make sure to check out some of the newer vids to see how the process has evolved, this was done fairly early in my experimentation with Gold recovery.
❤
Quick question how do you percipitate the tin from the hcl or discard it..also will appreciate if you do a video covering how you discard your wastes solution.. thanks in advance! 👍🏼
Hi Willy, when you go through the standard waste treatement, you raise the waste solution pH to about 2, then put a solid chunk of iron in the solution with an air line for agitation. The iron will displace all less reactive metals (including Tin and Copper). Once all the other metals have been displaced, raising the pH some more untill the Iron hydroxide is precipitated will usually leave a solution that is safe to disard. I have tried doing a video on waste treatment a couple of times, both times the video ended up boring even me, so never got posted. But yes, it is a very important subject. On the Gold Refining Forum, a user called 4Metals has a fantastic post on waste treatment for the home refininer.
Successful Engineer Thanks for the quick response and for the info 👍🏼
If you add hcl to get rid of the tin, and then evaporate it, all you're getting rid of is h20 and some Sn and H. If you add water to reduce it, all you're doing is concentrating the hcl and the Sn suspended in solution. I feel like your process to this point can be skipped and go to suspend the gold in solution then precipitation it out after
You've created aqua reagis by concentrating HCl and adding in HNO3. Everything precipitated out is gold and the same exact process can be used, because you have unknowingly used the same steps.
Could you please describe in detail your rust bucket you mentioned in this video. I would like to use it for magnetic pins, still containing bits of gold, after incineration of black chips. Thanks.
Hi Jerry, pretty long time ago now, but basically most people just throw the iron based (kovar) pins in a bucket and let time do it's thing turning them to rust. Eventually you can sieve the rust and bond wires through a fine sieve to separate from the unrusted pins. At this point your would chemically separate the Gold from the rust, not 100% sure how to do this as I never got this far.
Hi so great video how did you dry gold powder all time my powder stick to Baker I wish you add this to your video
Hi there, as long as the powder is very well washed with water and HCl, you shouldn't have any problem with it sticking. I also used a small paintbrush to loosen any sticking powder that remained.
Nice video :) interesting to see for sure!
Thanks Ned, remember to send any dead electronics you come across my way!
Great video and very usefull info, may i know what is Rinse Aid? Is it like Listerine..?
Hi there, rinse aid is a surfactant product for dish-washers that prevents water spots on glass-ware. Should be able to buy it at most supermarkets near the dishwasher tablets.
Successful Engineer thank you. Will try to look around, if cant find it, is there any other replacement?
Kepong JUSTICE Kepong JUSTICE Dishwashing liquid or even hand soap will also work, but makes a lot of bubbles
Successful Engineer noted with thanks. And 1 more thing, the hc1 is to get rid of tin and lead and some other unwanted thing?
Successful Engineer and how come not just throw the hci away instead of rinsing it?
NICE SUUNTO!!! GOT THE SAME ONE LOL
Hi great enjoy watching
But being a tight person
And not tec minded
Can you recover the copper from the first solution
And can you separate the other premium metal as well just ending up with gold and say platinum etc in each section
Hi Aaron, you can almost always recover Copper, and that is actually where big refineries make most of their money. For hobby refiners like me, recovering the Copper is actually just part of the waste treatment process. But other than ending up with a bucket of very fine Copper powder, I never really did anything with it.
Would love to see a breakdown of all the chemicals you used and the cost of said chemicals plus the cost of gas burnt not taking the containers into account as off today the price of gold has greatly falling due to the COVID 19 Virus so would not recommend you selling any to this virus has passed. Sure would love to $$ your way but i only have Pay-Pal they don't do Bitcoin sorry mostly deal in American $ or British £ . Breakdown the more you have done this the overall cost comes down. It was a good Science and Technology experience did enjoy it very much
Hi there, yeah, this video often gets commented on regarding the low value of Gold recovered relative to the effort, to which I usually reply that this video only demonstrates a process, the exact same process can be applied to material that yields 10x the amount of Gold and then it looks pretty good. Gold price still looks to be over US$1700 and at an all-time-high in my local currency, but I generally don't sell my Gold, don't really need the money and prefer to keep it for a really rainy day :)
There are a few videos floating around that talks about the chemicals used in refining, but it would be hard to give a cost breakdown since it varies so much depending on which country you are in. Overall I spent a few years pulling Gold out of E-waste and have done pretty well out of it, at the end of the day, the chemical cost was so low that I don't even really consider it.
I have a suggestion: blend that stuff into the water first, then when it hits from the bag., it should drop like gold. won't it? The reason it floats at all is cause you add the rinse aid secondly, if the water is already saturated with 150ml?, the stuff should soak right up and fall right in... maybe? I never did it... lol
I think the powder mainly floats because it is 99% plastic and very very fine, a few people have suggested adding the water slowly to the powder, instead of how I did it, definitely works much better!
a marathon video for 1/2 gram, i love it , it is time consuming , not sure can dig the evap action ? what did we gain ? nitric kill , i may of said something b4 abuot denox.
Hi there, yeah, this was pretty much demonstrating the process on some pretty low-grade material, the exact same steps work for ICs that yield 10x, 5g looks a lot better for the amount of work! Yeah, this was a very early video, I gave up on evaporation for denoxing rather quick and started using Sulfamic acid . . . fast, easy and reliable.
@@successfulengineer sure wish i had that blue bowl, i loose a bit here & there with a big jar panning. i just did 3 purple ceramics pentium pro doubles ended up with about 8 $ worth of gold each. not good, paid 25 $ ea. on ebay, Ha ! im a clever devil though.
@@spotlobac7694 LOL, yeah, when I started reading I was going to say you should see those online rather than process them LOL Yeah, once you have the blue-bowl dialed in it works very well, a bit slow, but if you run it carefully you don't lose much!
@@successfulengineer im gonna buy one then i came across about 150 slid out mini servers loaded with chips bga & gold corner black tops , enough to last all summer if i dont become a covidian.
its about 7 aclock in zeeland ay ? its 11 here in washington state US. 4 hrs. out of time , im not subject to time here.
Hi.
How does the blue bowl manage if there is crushed silicon die material in with the mix ? I sieve most of the silicon die stuff out of my material from ram chips, but there is always very fine silicon in my mix even after sieving down to 100 mesh. I just wondered if it restricts the cleaning flow of the water.
Hi Peter, crushed silicon is absolutely no problem, the key thing about the blue bowl is classification. It is great at sorting things by density as long as the particle sizes are similar. So as long as all the stuff you run go through the same mesh, it will be fine. I usually ball-milled all my ICs, so had tons of cushed silicon in there and never had any issues.
@@successfulengineer Hi, Thank you for your reply. I use the same mill you first use. I have engineered two metal grinding discs attached two the original discs. It works well taking the material down to 40 mesh, then I put the material through a liquidizer (dry) and that comes out at -100 mesh. I just thought I would share that with you, it saves all the ball milling Etc. Big thanks again for your reply and for sharing your knowledge .
Sounds fantastic peter, thanks for letting me know. Feel free to ask if there is ever anything you get stuck with, but sounds like you are a can-do kind of guy.
Great videos watched all3. The bought blue bowl is way better than a diy, mine was similar to your one. My two cents, get urself some good sieves. Classification is the key to the blue bowl. Ur material could b run In 3 or more size grades to get that extra 1-2% per run over the next few years.
Hi there, that is great advice, thanks for the comment. I will be buying a few more sieves for sure, could you recommend the mesh values that would make a good set ? I'm also very seriously considering buying the genuine blue bowl after seeing how well my crappy DIY one works. I think it will be my from-me-to-me xmas present.
Successful Engineer eBay under gold fossicking. U will find the sieves there not cheep but needed. Blue bowl inlet for the water is a Moulded in fitting and the angle on centre funnel is not just a upside down funnel. it has a flatter spot at the top and no glue. I used a donut shaped plastic cake pan, cut out the middle top part and added a pipe to the outer edge for water inlet :)
If you chopped the gas tank in half you could laser cut a nice flat lid, unload and inspect it much more easily. Will it still roll ok if you only had half a tank?
I think it would work OK, would definitely make cleaning it out a little easier.
what size and how deep is your blue bowl and what size and how far down did you cut the funnel please
Was a very long time ago now, but I followed the dimensions of the original bowl on this link -> gpex.ca/smf/index.php?topic=415.20
Where did you get your tiny grinder? I need one of those in my life
Nice video I'm glad to see the video and I have tow questions first one : can i use nitric acid directly with out using hydrochloric acid2
is the water in cleaning step makes circle with the second powl which has a bumper i mean the water turning into the second powl Thanks again
For question 1, no, you want to use hydrochloric acid first to remove any Tin metal before using nitric acid to remove copper base metals. For question 2, I think you are asking if the water is turning in the blue bowl ? If that is the question, the answer is yes, you can google / search on youtube for "blue bowl gold recovery", some videos will show better how it works.
Successful Engineer thanks for answering my questions . Is the concentration of acids are 100% or it's not necessary I mean I can get it with concentrate 3% is it OK ?
The concentrations are not critical, but your HCl should be around 20%-33% and your HNO3 should be around 40%-70%