SNS 208: More Heavy Shaping, Grinding New Mo-Max Toolbit
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- Опубліковано 29 вер 2024
- This week I show you some of my high speed tool bits and grind in a new Mo-Max cobalt bit for the shaper. We take some deeper cuts then before, and then inspect the tool to see how well the edge is holding up.
Also in the list is a new used set of Starrett mics, tool bits, and some shop updates.
Abom79 Swag here: storefrontier....
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I don't know who these people are that don't like to see someone buy an old tool, repair it, and teach themselves to use it properly, but I sure don't want them next to me in the shop. You keep going Abom; we love it.
Absolutely right sir. Who the hell are these bloody trolls that say such silly things?
The shaper footage is actually very soothing and satisfying to watch, so I won't get tired of it any time soon.
Wasting material!?! That's like saying you're wasting gas when you're learning how to drive. Or you're wasting gas/electric when you're learning how to cook/bake. You're learning/practicing how to use the shaper. What a crazy thing to say. If you were wasting the material, not dialing in your technique/feeds/speeds, and not recycling the chips, maybe they could say something about it... But they've got no right to tell you that you can't practice/learn.
You're the man, Adam! I love the direction of the channel! Keep up the good work.
I wasted a lot of chalk and pencils learning to write.
watching that thing cut is surreal. lights in my house dim on every stroke. fun vid Adam.
You think that’s something, wait till you see the 2” depth cuts with 30 thou step over. 😎⚡️
I'm a Subscriber Tony, bc of Adam Ment
Mentioning Your Channel .
Take Care
B Safe
man, you are a rare breed these days. You're a hard worker, honest, but also passionate about your trade. that's awesome and refreshing. you do some great work at the home shop, the works shop, and great videos. thank you for sharing your knowledge and cool projects. take care, jamie from canada
Abom, I have been subscribed to your channel for a little over a year. I haven't been dissapointed. I am not a machinist. I am an electronics technician. But I do enjoy watching what can be made and done with a piece of steel, mill & lathe. I learn something knew every video. Keep up the great work shipmate. I am loving the shaper video's. You show what a machinist needs to do just not making things.
I know from watching you that you are excellent at what you do. My 2 cents is this: Notice on your last cuts that you have all the heat from the cut going into the chip. You have a full blue color. That is exactly what you want on a shaper. It will definitely increase your tool life. When I apprenticed (Which was long before you were born, LoL) the shaper was one of my favorite machines. I used a 36" Cincinnati for years. One of the things about the Cincinnati was that it had a linkage from the clapper box to a friction block with hardwood in it to raise the box and prevent the tool dragging on the back stroke. It's amazing what can actually be done on a shaper when you think about the possible setups. I really am enjoying your videos. Keep up the good work my friend.
Tool lifter. Some shaper came optioned with them. They ordered mine without it.
Dang Adam those are some real big boy chips! Love the shaper videos, its cool to see how they work on the insides.
Jordan Bourns abom size
This journey and your enthusiasm for the machines and what they do make this "must watch " material.
Most excellent. I enjoy videos about the "new" metal shaper because they are so different. I've seen a lot of lathe work and a lot of mill work, but shaping, that's all new to me. I guess I just like old historical tools. Can't wait for the next edition.
I never truly appreciated shapers and their versatility until I watched your videos and learned quite a bit from you. Now I want a smaller one really badly, they are so awesome!
Shermingtan Look up Stefan Gotteswinter’s video making circular splines on his shaper. Very versatile machine with the right accessories.
Hi Adam, I enjoy watching you strip and repair machines it would be boring if you bought perfect ones keep up the good work.
I absolutely love your shop. One day I hope to have one like yours
Love seeing the shaper, and i can see how excited you are with this machine! I could fall asleep to the sound of it cutting.
You make very Quality content ! So don’t bother with those who talk but never do. Anyone who has worked with that type of equipment realizes it needs maintenance and needs maintained.
That’s the reason we have a world full of CNC people who have no idea how to actually run a machine keep it in top condition. Experience with the total picture will be appreciated great content great video.
Adam: Don't know if this makes much difference on edge durability, but I keep the overstroke on the back end very short so the ram has not accelerated up to stroke speed yet when the tool hits the cut.Great video....Dave
Dave, been going off the books but I learned to keep it at least an inch to allow time for downfeed. I’m going to play with different grinds once I get it back together.
Reminds me of those coin pusher games with the chips being pushed into your catcher....
Hey Adam. Don’t listen to those idiots! Maintenance is key, especially on machinery like this. That is how you keep things going smoothly for a long time and you don’t have a catastrophic failure down the line. You don’t buy a used car and expect it to be perfect all the way around.
Adam cutting oil is another word for shop perfume. Great mic set and video.
Oh man. That’s a nice mic set. Glad to see the shaper is getting good use Adam.
Love the videos. They just keep getting better and better. About the comments. YT comments can be the worst. I really appreciate you dispelling the shitty ones. It’s gotta suck reading them on your side. I know as just a viewer sometimes these comments drive me nuts. Too many trolls and idiots out there. There should be a test you have to take before commenting. LOL.
Adam could you set up a dial indicator on the table while cutting and see if it jumps when the cut starts ? Might work just an idea I had when you said there might be backlash in the table
Super great price on that Starrett 0-12 inch outside mic set. KBCTools.com has a new Starrett set in wood box for over $3900. Congratulations on that buy. Love these huge shaper cuts. I can imagine a Machinist Mate on a battleship in WW2 running one of these huge shapers to make parts to keep the ship running.
i know nothing about machining and those shaper chips blow my mind holy cow those are giant
This shaper would have come in handy a few years back when there was the collaboration for Kieth's Whats in your toolbox giveaway. Hogging all the metal off that large block for the machinist vice with the mill would have gone a lot faster with this shaper.
one point to becoming an expert is to know and understand and also repair all the machines you own. You can't be efficient if all the operations of a certain machine aren't up to specs. I enjoy learning and repairing machines in my line of work of maintenance man.
Never bored. Love seeing the notification of new content.
I love to buy old cars to fix them up, I buy old machines to fix them up. The old machines help me fix the old cars, and both old cars, and old machines bring me a lot of pleasure.
Loving this shaper series and the beard look! Keep making the videos and nevermind the haters Adam!
I have some Mo-Max - fantastic Molly + Cobalt metal. We love this site and video. Martin - CNC sheet metal, two Surface grinders (heavy Mill style), Metal & Wood lathes, Metal & Wood bandsaws, Small mill, Bench Delta drill press that will hold a #60 drill. Never heard clemax - glad to hear. Being coated - maybe Naval from a decommissioned ship. First crewman award.
Ese taller vale cada centímetro oro!! Hermoso, es el país de Alicia!!!
Felicitaciones desde Argentina
Nice!! I think we can see your progression to perfection.
It is not a waste of materials if you are learning from it.
My comment below was on the opening part of the video. I love this machine, and I understand your comments. Our local machine had a (I think) Cincinnati shaper. I am inclined to go to the shop and have a look at it - if it is still there. I know they have a milling machine and all the 'right' tools for it, as well as a horizontal mill, so I don't know if they use it, assuming they still have it. I remember the Father of the 'boys' that were running it when it was in the central part of my home town. The shop is now out in the suburbs and under new ownership. Just thought you'd like to know ...
I am sure you will find the problem with the jumping,but my gut feeling is that the clapper pivots are worn causing the tool to drop on the back stroke and raise slightly when loaded.
Any way, I love your videos,keep them coming
Les Bender I’ll be checking those parts also.
Hello! People restaure classic cars. We enjoy classic machinery. The haters can just sodd off!
Adam
Try with the tool bit against the clapper box with the packer under the screw . In the machine shop at the iron works that how they ran them . If you want big machines they had a lot of 18 foot bed boring machines for doing the mounds for the cast iron pipe spinning machines , they were used in WW2 for boring gun barrels up to 18 inch bore .
It would of been really cool to use a thermal camera to see the heat quickly build up on the cut and see the final temperature of the chips
Those Shpaer-Videos are so addicting!
OOOH I want one of those T-Shirts!
storefrontier.com/collections/abom79
Those chips look HOT. They would look good on an IR camera
I love the all the shaper footage!
Adam, Roughing tool for the shaper.
Please grind front and side clearance 1/2°.
Top side rake about 15°.
Negative back rake 25°
Side approach angle about 30°
Depth of cut 0.500"
Feed rate 0.05"
Speed ~40'/min.
I would recommend the side rake using the circumference of the grinder with a land with of 1/8" secondary side rake about 30° positive.
Hone the edge with a point radius of say 0.04" Please try.
Listen to machine work.
You should be able to run the cutting for 2 hours. The edge damage should be eliminated.
Please grind the clearances flat not on the curve of the grinder.
@@martynfrench7187 He is hand honing to put the flat edge on, you don't need it on the full surface
Wow, great deal on the mics!!
Hi Adam I use the surfice grinder to grind my toolbits and it done really good job.
that shaper would make an awesome plate beveler man would love that for makeing up welding tests
Nice shirt!
This cuts steel like butter. Its fun to watch something as substantial as steel peel off like that. Screw those snootty people.
Absolutely love the detail on the Shaper tool bits Adam . Also much better on the camera angle watching the tool do its work. Some day I hope to be able to grind my own gear cutting tools and make some gears on my little Southbend 7". Maybe some day You Tube will create a channel for "Snooty Comments" and then the trolls can all make Snooty Comments about each others Snooty Comments. And they can all be sent to stand in the Snooty Comments corner ! I do love the tutorial on the shaper tool bits. Thanks again.
Too much rake on the top, Maybe the bottom also. The key is to keep as much material on the cutting edge as possible for heat dissipation.
200 bucks,dude what a score.
Those "curly-ques" are nearly as large as engine bearing inserts. Maybe you should check for looseness in the clapper as well as table backlash.
Good day, Adam, looks like a way to make soft jaws - the question being will this work with brass , bronze or copper?
I like those cufflinks. Why is it every 2nd stroke the machine shakes and it feels like the bit slams the work piece when it first connects rather than cutting the entire tiem.
The footage with the sterling tool bit sounded a bit like Darth Vader breathing
You can't do to much shaping for me, Thank you
I´m wondering - If turning around the other holder to get the tool closer to the clapper seat worked pretty well, why didn´t you try this with the 1" tools also (tool bit on the clapper base, clamping piece on the top)?
wowee ! nice roughing work on the shaper. i wonder, if , on a good day, the K & T could remove 80 thou in one pass ?
Yes the K&T will handle heavy cuts no problem.
Adam, three things come to mind from my past with one of these machines. First I would suggest you change your cutting edge approach angle as it relates to the work. You have an angle on your toolbit like it was a lathe tool. If you grind it more like a planer tool leaving that tapered rake out of it. Make your bit square with only about 2 degrees clearance under the cutting edge. Put 3-4 under the tip and about 8 on the top. Maintain a square profile without that raked taper.. That will keep the impact on start of cut more linear with the ram and avoid the desire to shift the clapper box to the side.
Second... back the day we mounted a glass reservoir drip oiler on the ram and plumbed a soft copper tube over the cutting bit shank right where you keep dripping oil. Set it so it drips about once every 10 seconds or so... We used to use heavy black thread cutting oil in it like you would use for threading gas pipe. The oil is important when hogging to prevent chip weld on the cutting edge. On big projects we would take a gob of moly grease and mix it in the cutting oil.
Third. Since you don't have a tool lift actuator on the clapper box the tool pivot pin takes a bit of a beating. You'll want to take a look and do what you can to eliminate any play from the clapper and pin. The more rigid you can get that fit the better your surface finish will be.
hope that helps.
~Bill
3:18 "...and I'm gonna continue to share that stuff with you" (- whether you like it or not!)
You go Adam, it's *YOUR* show we tune in for.☺
Adam, PLEASE get yourself a leather apron to wear when you're using the 7" grinder to rough in tools. all it takes is a defect in the wheel and it's coming apart. You can get one on ebay for about $30 shipped.
Mighty impressive those 3/4" cuts. MoMax worked much better
Jeff
Getting too bored of all your G & E Shaper episodes??
HELL NO! Adam. Not in the slightest. You just keep 'em coming, and we'll just keep soaking them up. 👍👍
Appreciate ALL your postings. As always, hope all good in your world.
Best wishes,
Mark Pearce (UK)
Some people just don't get it, refurbishing a piece of machinery helps you learn a great deal about how it works etc.
Some people are too short minded to see the bigger picture.
In case you haven't found any more info on the "SUPER Mo Chip" tool, it was from Firth Sterling 4% Cr 6% Mo 1.5% V 8%Co b steel AISI code M40B.
If someone forced me to give an answer, I seriously couldn't honestly tell them why watching close-ups of one machine scraping off steel pieces from a bigger block so fascinating, in fact it's more than that, it's kind of peaceful watching it. Keep up your good work on any of your machining projects you've got going, these shaper videos are very interesting. And I enjoy how these machines work from the inside, I spent my entire life repairing similar kinds of equipment.
Titus Tucker Don’t worry, You are not alone:)
The one thing you didn't mention about what and why you are doing the tweaking on the shaper cutters and going through the shaper itself is not only your thirst to learn as much as you can about the shaper and the tooling used but it is also your passion to share and teach what you have learned and continue to learn. That my friend is magical in itself. When you can inspire and bring a smile to an old woodworker like me, that is special. I do understand sharpening and grinding the angles to get the best cut. It is magic when you hit the sweet spot.
James Stanlake Your right. There’s a who selfish people who fail to realize that.
Don't ever quit, I will always have your back! My eyes are good enough to see value.
I hope the next 30 episodes is shaper related.
So we need the "turning in a tuxedo" video so we can see proof of you using the cufflinks.
ʘ‿ʘ
“Hope you’re not getting bored with the shaper” Adam, I think as long as you’re making chip and showing us the shop life I’m happy.
You know, just listening to the pass at 800, with the 20 degree, it sounds smoother than in the previous video cuts. I’m enjoying the vids, keep on doing you sir!
Don't worry about any snide comments Adam, you're videos are awesome ,a man doing what he loves and sharing it with others , absolutely fantastic.
Haters going to hate , shaper's going to shape!
I have learned sooooooo much from this guy over the years, every time you post a video I have a pen and paper ready.
I could never get tired of watching shaper videos, lol.
People who express negative sentiments on the state of your shaper , reveal their own ignorance . There is nothing more satifying in the long term, than restoring old machines. Thanks Adam
I’m 50 to 75 years old and have a few worn out parts too! Those guys are not mechanics or machinists, good work Adam. Thanks for sharing.
Those cuts are starting to look pretty nice imo Ada, youre right there, the machine sounds and looks happy too. Amazing how those different tool steels hold an edge, as little relief and as much 'cutting' rake as you can get away with is surely the way to go for heavy cuts in mild steel. Im not sure if that block youve got behind the tool is doing anything for you, perhaps try it in front, getting the cutting edge closer to the clapper is good juju. Maybe you could indicate for movement whilst in the cut too, just to see if you find anything worth.
I dunno whats up with the guys saying the 'shame you had to work on it' stuff. Overall it looks in great shape with the scraping still visible on the ram etc. Getting in there and sorting the last little niggly bits is a total joy to my mind, proper satisfying whilst learning to better understand the machine.
Positive wave sent from the UK :)
I like when you said “from what the pros are tellin’ me” !
will done on your you tube video i do enjoy but its nice someone using shaper i have don`t see one or used one since i was apprentice i am now 58 and live in Bristol in the UK this seem like a forgot bit of kit. last i used one was to rough out keys like gib head and feather key s in my first year of apprenticeship i was show how used one a great m/c for roughing out +it nice to see one grinding up tools keep it up
Bored of your shaper! its just so fun to see you smile with your new machine :)
Hey brother. I'm a machinist at a medical shop. Over the past 10 years I've worked in the oilfield and defense industry. I just wanted to drop a line and tell you how much love your channel. I always learn something from every video. Thank you so much for the great content. Keep up the. Good work. -jimmy
The detractors have clearly missed the point
Yep
Holy cow, that set of micrometers is incredible! I have seen a few sets around but they are always missing something.... your set is really beautiful and complete!
anyone else find it super interesting watching a master in their field like Adam learning a new skill (using a shaper)?
I agree with ya 100% . I think the shaper is better then new. The best part I think is taking it apart to understand how it works and function. Great videos and thanks for bringing us along on your journey.
SMH.. Some people don't understand the joy and satisfaction in restoration. Especially for something that is this worthwhile.
I wouldn't be uptight either about having to make minor repairs on a 50 year old piece of good quality machinery. I have a 2 year old import lathe that has needed fairly major repairs and could still use some tweaking. I think your shaper is a very cool piece of equipment, reminds me of the (smaller) shaper I ran in high school metal shop.
Would it make a difference if you put the tool against the clapper and the spacer block nearest the screw?
Anyone who doesn’t like being able to do anything but plug and play will never enjoy the joy of breaking down old iron and fixing it to the build quality it once was. Old iron is the best iron. Thank you for that content, and please, continue making old iron videos
oy.
As an old machinist, I'd just like to say, don't ever loose respect for the power this machine has, keeping the surface footage at 75-100 for mild steel, depth of cut at .375- .500. And feed at .06-.08 will yield enormous metal removal rates all day long. One place I worked at we had contests to see who could throw chips the farthest with our Cincinnati 24" shapers, if it ain't fun what's the point.
bored of the shaper? are you kidding? it's metal magic.
Metal Magic, no, gives real meaning to "Heavy Metal"...
Don't need cutting oil??? That there is "Shop Incense", Keep up the great work Adam
Almost hypnotic watching that shaper carve away at that steel. Weight loss is really starting to notice now. Keep up the good work
Thats crazy people would say that. You are taking care of the machine so that it last another 50-75 years. I guess these people buy cars and dont maintain those as well.
Amazing videos Abom. You are a real nice guy also. You could smile a little more; it suits you. Keep your head together and don't let youtube totally run your live (it sneaks up to you)
Hi Adam - just keep going, it’s your shaper. I’m glad you take the time to restore it and fix it up right. And to the snooty folks out there; it’s a mechanical device; it’s got moving parts - they’re going to wear out eventually! It’s good that the shaper was in as good a condition as it was; it speaks to the pride and craftsmanship of the G&E folks who built it to do a job and keep on ticking! If you think you can run even a finely made German automobile for 25 years or so without maintainence, go right ahead and try! Meanwhile, I’ll keep up with my trusty ol’ Ford F-150 pick-em-up truck and scheduled maintainence and watch it tick over 200,000 miles or so, as I pass your broken-down car on the side of the road. If you take care of well-built equipment, it’ll take care of you. Treat it like cr*p, and Mr. Bozo will visit your shop! 😎
i'll never understand people who don't want to learn how things work, nor how old technology can continue to be used.
The people complaining about material waste obviously have no clue about machining. You’re not gonna just throw a job on a new/old/used machine and figure out the kinks as you go. Nice work Adam!
I think I could record the sound of the shaper running and use it to go to sleep by aka white noise lol
very well said abom 79 in the first three mins or so. some poeple just don't get.
Howdy Adam,
You are probably correct about the backlash in the table. If you notice the video when you are at full depth on the cut, there is a definite "bump" in the image when the tool makes contact with the work.
Drop the oil and go for some of that "Avon79"