@@mq46312 Indeed. Your video is a great explanation why it's so. I had to scour internet for hours if not days to understand the difference between them from the physics standpoint, but I never encountered such a good presentation of the subject. The internet clearly needed a video like this.
Thanks for your informative technical analysis. It cuts through any marketing ploy and gets straight to the science and practicality of things. For 20+ years, I've been using the very affordable Tramontina tri-ply base set - made in Brazil. It has a very thick welded bottom disc just like the Demeyere line. Every piece is rather heavy but they're all lighter and cooks similarly to cast iron cookware IMO. Recently, I've been frying and sautéing with Matfer and De Buyer carbon steel pans. However, I still want to have stainless steel pots & pans in my arsenal. I'm hoping to get something a bit less hefty and with the same or better cooking experience than my Tramontina tri-ply base. That said, I've been eyeing on the All-Clad D3, Tramontina Tri-Ply Clad (Made in Brazil, not China), and Demeyere. Have you made any stainless steel comparisons with these 3 brands? If money and brand loyalty/prestige were not a factor, which line/brand would you pick and why? If you'd be so kind, let's just delve into pans & saucier since I'm happy with my very thick & heavy welded bottom disc stock pot :) If you haven't done any research on this, any input would be much appreciated. Any suggestions from anyone would be welcomed and appreciated. So sorry for this crazy inquiry ;)
You spent way more time figuring this out than I could ever contribute. But If I'm understating this right, it's even more insignificant between the two compared to the stored heat of the water because with the disc pan, you also have more than just the SS layer of the pan and you need to account for the 3 layered disk at the bottom too. Even tho the Pan isn't fully clad, it still has a good portion of clad properties at the bottom and that is where all the heat is coming from anyway, Right? So unless the pan is smaller (like a 2 quart saucepan or below) or you're making something equivalent of a stir-fry where you're using the whole pan to cook rather than the just the bottom to cook a steak, or you're cooking with electric/induction where the heat is only coming from the bottom anyway. A fully clad pan is only going to serve a marginal benefit. Great video, I watched every second of it! Thank you!
yes what you say is correct. Companies like to market fully-clad pans as being miles better than disc-bottom but in reality they are only marginally better in some cases.
Thanks for all your video's. You saved me from buying a fully cladded stock pot. Instead I bought the fissler original profi 14L (yes, it's huge 😁). It's currently on sale in Germany at XXXLutz.
Can't go wrong with Fissler. My mom still uses the same Fissler pots she got as a wedding present in 1980. She's cooked with them almost daily since then and they are still going strong.
@@mq46312 for larger cookware I think cladded is actually a disadvantage. The tendency to warp is too great for large cladded cookware. Even the high end ones. Once they warp they're useless on induction cookers.
Lately, I've noticed that disc-bottom pans tend to have a thicker upper layer of at least 1 mm of stainless steel, while with clad pans it is usually around 0.5 mm. (Notice in the Apollo stock pot, there appears to be 1 mm of steel plus whatever is on top of the disc, presumably at least 0.5mm.) That would result in a performance difference in terms of the temperature drop-off when adding cold ingredients and the tendency for hot spots to occur (resulting in burning if not mixed) when moist ingredients are transitioning to dry. That performance difference wouldn't be captured in your usual way of heating up a pan from the bottom; it would need to be cooled from the top in a small area. I wonder how this could be tested--perhaps by adding moist bread or dough to a hot pan. (For an extreme example, imagine the thermal properties of a cast iron skillet heated up with an aluminum heat diffuser disc between it and the hob. It would heat up evenly due to the aluminum, but the cast iron's properties would dominate once cold ingredients are added.) It should also be mentioned that clad pans shed heat faster, making them more responsive and more resilient to temperature drop-off when cold ingredients are added (since the burner must be at a higher setting to achieve the same temperature on the surface), but potentially at the cost of worse heat distribution, especially with an uneven heat source. Also, disc-bottom pans are lighter so they may be preferred for that reason if weight is a constraint.
While holding a magnet is usually reported as how to know if a pan will work on induction I have noticed that some pans work better than others. I have 2 3quart pots. One takes 4 minutes to boil water the takes 1 minute.
LOVE your channel, can you do a comparison video between fissler original profi and the successor after 40 years fissler pure profi? greetings from Athens!
what kind of disk pan would you recommend who is making pan seared chicken breast and steak? I mostly use my pans for sauteing fajita-like veggies, I thought a disk pan might be worth it, do you know of any good brands for disk pans that arent overly expensive? in the mid tier I guess
@@genericusername5520 sorry for very late reply. I missed this comment. The Fissler disc bottom fry pans are fantastic. Or you could get the Demeyere Proline (fully clad) with incredible heat retention.
The Atlantis. It's lighter and more manoeuvrable. There is no "technical need" for copper. The Atlantis has a copper bottom that distributes heat extremely well.
I actually never had experience with induction so I'm afraid I'm not qualified to give an answer. But my un-educated answer would be that it also makes no noticeable difference.
Thanks for your detail explaination review. I have a question, will a clad stock pot more suitable for boiling thicker liquid or stew ? I am choosing between the fissler original profi and a clad stockpot. Or even a hybrid disc bottom + clad side wall stockpot can do everything great ?
Hi! Do you have any idea what saucepot would be ideal for Pakistani/Indian cooking? Disc bottomed/Fully cladded? Because especially in Pakistani cuisine to make a curry, the heat stages vary throughout the cooking process.. going from med-high-med-low all while making one dish.. Thank you.
Please, i was checking some Apollo full clad vs Atlantis full clad. Do you know what is the wall thickness for each ones in general (proline pans from atlantis are thicker then saucepans from Atlantis, in full clad), are they the same maybe? Comparing 25328 vs 54428. Many thanks,
Proline pans are 4.8mm thick. Atlantis conical saucepans are around 3.5mm I think Not sure about the Apollo series. I'm guessing around 2.5 to 3mm thick.
@@mq46312so the Atlantis sauce pans should have the copper layer added, even when fully clad, like the proline, comparend with Apollo. For example from the pictures, looking to pouring edge, is obvious the difference of thickness between Atlantis 25328 and Apollo 54428. Apollo pouring edge seems very thin. Thanks.
@@mq46312 Great to know, I also found info right for Demeyere Conical Sauce Pan on centurylife and it seems on conical series there is not too much difference in thermal properties: "Apollo. Same thing as Atlantis, except that Apollo curved-sidewall pieces have less comfortable handles, no flared rims for drip-free pouring, and some lids are made out of Pyrex glass instead of stainless steel. This means that unlike straight-sidewall pieces, Apollo and Atlantis have equal thermal performance. Atlantis. Demeyere’s best curved-sidewall product line is Atlantis. Curved-sidewall products are called various things by Demeyere, usually “conic,” “simmering pot,” or “Dutch oven.” The stainless-aluminum-stainless cladding runs up the sides. The 5.1 quart and 3.5 quart pieces are 3.3 mm thick (2.2 mm of which is aluminum). Smaller pieces are 3 mm thick (2 mm aluminum)."
your calculations don't prove nothing, you calculated the energi that's needed to heat the pot and the water to 80 C, that's is not interesting! what you should calculate is the thermaldynamic of the heat loss during the time spent boiling the water and the energi used to hold the water at 80 C for an hour to compare the values. The heat efficiency og the spread heating aresa etc.
The bottom line to all of this British BS is, if you are going to cook your food at a temperature that is so hot you might as well be using a blow torch for a heat source, it doesn't matter what style you choose, you are going to scorch your food. On the other hand, if you are going to cook your food at moderate temperature like most food should be prepared a fully cladded pan is usually better the majority of the time.
it's fun in this age for the first time when you have a question about something very random and there's someone that explains it so well
Glad you found it helpful!
This is a great topic since most people don't understand the physics behind the concepts.
Yes precisely a lot of people simply think fully-cladded is automatically better, without understanding how or why...
@@mq46312 Indeed. Your video is a great explanation why it's so. I had to scour internet for hours if not days to understand the difference between them from the physics standpoint, but I never encountered such a good presentation of the subject. The internet clearly needed a video like this.
Thanks for your informative technical analysis. It cuts through any marketing ploy and gets straight to the science and practicality of things. For 20+ years, I've been using the very affordable Tramontina tri-ply base set - made in Brazil. It has a very thick welded bottom disc just like the Demeyere line. Every piece is rather heavy but they're all lighter and cooks similarly to cast iron cookware IMO. Recently, I've been frying and sautéing with Matfer and De Buyer carbon steel pans. However, I still want to have stainless steel pots & pans in my arsenal. I'm hoping to get something a bit less hefty and with the same or better cooking experience than my Tramontina tri-ply base. That said, I've been eyeing on the All-Clad D3, Tramontina Tri-Ply Clad (Made in Brazil, not China), and Demeyere. Have you made any stainless steel comparisons with these 3 brands? If money and brand loyalty/prestige were not a factor, which line/brand would you pick and why? If you'd be so kind, let's just delve into pans & saucier since I'm happy with my very thick & heavy welded bottom disc stock pot :) If you haven't done any research on this, any input would be much appreciated. Any suggestions from anyone would be welcomed and appreciated. So sorry for this crazy inquiry ;)
You spent way more time figuring this out than I could ever contribute. But If I'm understating this right, it's even more insignificant between the two compared to the stored heat of the water because with the disc pan, you also have more than just the SS layer of the pan and you need to account for the 3 layered disk at the bottom too. Even tho the Pan isn't fully clad, it still has a good portion of clad properties at the bottom and that is where all the heat is coming from anyway, Right?
So unless the pan is smaller (like a 2 quart saucepan or below) or you're making something equivalent of a stir-fry where you're using the whole pan to cook rather than the just the bottom to cook a steak, or you're cooking with electric/induction where the heat is only coming from the bottom anyway. A fully clad pan is only going to serve a marginal benefit.
Great video, I watched every second of it! Thank you!
yes what you say is correct. Companies like to market fully-clad pans as being miles better than disc-bottom but in reality they are only marginally better in some cases.
Thanks for all your video's. You saved me from buying a fully cladded stock pot. Instead I bought the fissler original profi 14L (yes, it's huge 😁). It's currently on sale in Germany at XXXLutz.
Great choice. For a pot that size fully cladded serves no purpose at all.
Can't go wrong with Fissler. My mom still uses the same Fissler pots she got as a wedding present in 1980. She's cooked with them almost daily since then and they are still going strong.
@@mq46312 for larger cookware I think cladded is actually a disadvantage. The tendency to warp is too great for large cladded cookware. Even the high end ones.
Once they warp they're useless on induction cookers.
Thanks, this is a really useful video! My wife and I have been looking at what pans to buy and this answered a lot of the questions that we had!
Lately, I've noticed that disc-bottom pans tend to have a thicker upper layer of at least 1 mm of stainless steel, while with clad pans it is usually around 0.5 mm. (Notice in the Apollo stock pot, there appears to be 1 mm of steel plus whatever is on top of the disc, presumably at least 0.5mm.) That would result in a performance difference in terms of the temperature drop-off when adding cold ingredients and the tendency for hot spots to occur (resulting in burning if not mixed) when moist ingredients are transitioning to dry. That performance difference wouldn't be captured in your usual way of heating up a pan from the bottom; it would need to be cooled from the top in a small area. I wonder how this could be tested--perhaps by adding moist bread or dough to a hot pan. (For an extreme example, imagine the thermal properties of a cast iron skillet heated up with an aluminum heat diffuser disc between it and the hob. It would heat up evenly due to the aluminum, but the cast iron's properties would dominate once cold ingredients are added.)
It should also be mentioned that clad pans shed heat faster, making them more responsive and more resilient to temperature drop-off when cold ingredients are added (since the burner must be at a higher setting to achieve the same temperature on the surface), but potentially at the cost of worse heat distribution, especially with an uneven heat source. Also, disc-bottom pans are lighter so they may be preferred for that reason if weight is a constraint.
While holding a magnet is usually reported as how to know if a pan will work on induction I have noticed that some pans work better than others. I have 2 3quart pots. One takes 4 minutes to boil water the takes 1 minute.
very useful thankyou
I appreciate the analytics behind this. Great content!
Thank you! This is informative and helpful!
LOVE your channel, can you do a comparison video between fissler original profi and the successor after 40 years fissler pure profi? greetings from Athens!
From reading the reviews on a lot of pans I will say that it seems that the disk bottomed are nearly impossible to warp.
Yes this is true. Disc-bottom pans warp less easily then a fully-clad pan, especially compared to a cheap one.
what kind of disk pan would you recommend who is making pan seared chicken breast and steak? I mostly use my pans for sauteing fajita-like veggies, I thought a disk pan might be worth it, do you know of any good brands for disk pans that arent overly expensive? in the mid tier I guess
@@genericusername5520 sorry for very late reply. I missed this comment. The Fissler disc bottom fry pans are fantastic. Or you could get the Demeyere Proline (fully clad) with incredible heat retention.
Very good video! Thank you.
Welcome!
For the saucepan, which one do you prefer, the copper one or the atlantis. If you chose one, why is that?
The Atlantis. It's lighter and more manoeuvrable. There is no "technical need" for copper. The Atlantis has a copper bottom that distributes heat extremely well.
How is the disc bonded to the bottom of the pan?
can we say full clade of any pan is worthless in induction stove?
I actually never had experience with induction so I'm afraid I'm not qualified to give an answer. But my un-educated answer would be that it also makes no noticeable difference.
Disc bottom is vastly superior on induction. I only use my cladded pans on gas.
Thanks for your detail explaination review. I have a question, will a clad stock pot more suitable for boiling thicker liquid or stew ? I am choosing between the fissler original profi and a clad stockpot. Or even a hybrid disc bottom + clad side wall stockpot can do everything great ?
No need for fully cladded here. A good disc bottom would work well.
Hi! Do you have any idea what saucepot would be ideal for Pakistani/Indian cooking? Disc bottomed/Fully cladded? Because especially in Pakistani cuisine to make a curry, the heat stages vary throughout the cooking process.. going from med-high-med-low all while making one dish.. Thank you.
If it is wet ingredients then both fully cladded or disc bottom would work well. Personally I would use a casserole style pot or a rondeau.
Doesn’t the Atlantis disc bottom also have two silver layers?
Yes it does.
Please, i was checking some Apollo full clad vs Atlantis full clad. Do you know what is the wall thickness for each ones in general (proline pans from atlantis are thicker then saucepans from Atlantis, in full clad), are they the same maybe? Comparing 25328 vs 54428. Many thanks,
Proline pans are 4.8mm thick. Atlantis conical saucepans are around 3.5mm I think Not sure about the Apollo series. I'm guessing around 2.5 to 3mm thick.
@@mq46312so the Atlantis sauce pans should have the copper layer added, even when fully clad, like the proline, comparend with Apollo. For example from the pictures, looking to pouring edge, is obvious the difference of thickness between Atlantis 25328 and Apollo 54428. Apollo pouring edge seems very thin. Thanks.
@@victormoroianu2461 No only the Atlantis vertical walled pots have a copper disk bottom. The Proline is a 7-ply made from SS and AL
@@mq46312 Great to know, I also found info right for Demeyere Conical Sauce Pan on centurylife and it seems on conical series there is not too much difference in thermal properties:
"Apollo. Same thing as Atlantis, except that Apollo curved-sidewall pieces have less comfortable handles, no flared rims for drip-free pouring, and some lids are made out of Pyrex glass instead of stainless steel. This means that unlike straight-sidewall pieces, Apollo and Atlantis have equal thermal performance.
Atlantis. Demeyere’s best curved-sidewall product line is Atlantis. Curved-sidewall products are called various things by Demeyere, usually “conic,” “simmering pot,” or “Dutch oven.” The stainless-aluminum-stainless cladding runs up the sides. The 5.1 quart and 3.5 quart pieces are 3.3 mm thick (2.2 mm of which is aluminum). Smaller pieces are 3 mm thick (2 mm aluminum)."
Will the aluminum layer mix with food?
The aluminum is fully enclosed in stainless layers and never comes into contact with the food.
your calculations don't prove nothing, you calculated the energi that's needed to heat the pot and the water to 80 C, that's is not interesting! what you should calculate is the thermaldynamic of the heat loss during the time spent boiling the water and the energi used to hold the water at 80 C for an hour to compare the values. The heat efficiency og the spread heating aresa etc.
British BS is it. Where are you from? This is a very informative video.
I'm from NZ but lived in several countries. I was in the Netherlands when I made this video.
The bottom line to all of this British BS is, if you are going to cook your food at a temperature that is so hot you might as well be using a blow torch for a heat source, it doesn't matter what style you choose, you are going to scorch your food. On the other hand, if you are going to cook your food at moderate temperature like most food should be prepared a fully cladded pan is usually better the majority of the time.