Honestly, I used a foregrip for a decent period of time in the army My guys always asked why I, the medic of all people, felt the need to have one The secret is, it was never about shooting It was just comfier to patrol with
Same here. The only other advantage i ever really found was resting your hand under it when prone for a more stable forward platform while weighing much less than a bipod.
They really are more comfortable lol. You can kinda cradle your arm in between it and the mag well. The gun is still accessible but the weight is supported.
In the past I've seen people say that hand stops for more aggressive c-clamp grips are great until you're clearing rooms for hours or trying to just hold your rifle up on patrol. I suppose a classic long VFG is more like a comfortable hand grip than for maximum recoil mitigation. Even on BCMs website, they specifically advertise the popular KAG grip as being a grip with a "slight angle without significant bulk adds just the right amount of relief to the wrist without substantially increasing the girth of the handguard" Because the grip was designed with Haley you also get his classic jargon, "Designed to complement modern shooting grips, the Kinesthetic Angled Grip (KAG) uses a biomechanically efficient forward rake to create an interface for positive retention and joint relief to the wrist, elbow, and shoulder, allowing for smooth weapon manipulation without substantial increase to the girth of the weapon system." I hope Admin does a review on the KAG just to do his Haley impression for the whole video
With modern shooting I use my vfg more as a hand stop to support a c clamp grip and my favorite use of it is getting a nice hold on a ledge for more stable shooting. It’s also comfortable when wearing your rifle for a long time with a sling.
VFG's are definitely a useful and practical piece of kit, we used the older "broom handle" VFG's (like on that first rifle you showed) in the Army during the OIF/ GWOT, very handy in relentless Urban Fighting and those long suckfest days. There's many flavors, use what y'all like and fits your needs. The R. Lee Ermey sound bits got me lol, nice bru.
@@mattysee24 bruh there’s bank robberies happening all the time I’m hardly concocting a conspiracy here lol just a joke my guy I don’t carry a badge and would never want to
I intentionally want guns without rails: less rails means not going broke because you can't decide which grip, light, and Keurig looks best on your rifle.
I remember in the police academy they had us qualify on the pistol with no fatigue for the state required qualification but then they had us do the same course of fire under stress with fatigue and I actually shot better with the exercise. I think it’s because my body thought I was dying and went into survival lizard mode. #fatcoplife
Lizard mode is always on (It's milennia old, kinda hard to kill if you like the pun). Our executive function is doing it's best to keep it in check otherwise, which creates a lot of dissonance if ya catch me. Good shooting!
I was doing the shooting test for my CCL and shot like shit for the chest target, still passed it, but I wasn't happy. Then they told me to aim for the head and I put 5 rounds into a quarter sized target rapidly. I have no idea what I did right to achieve that but the instructor thought it was hilarious.
One big consideration for all you recce-ing out there, or just doing the work in the woods. In nature, there aren’t a lot of nice flat edges to brace the grip off of, but there are a lot of irregular surfaces, and using your pack as support to shoot distance. It’s much easier to use these irregularly shaped obstacles as a rest when the bottom of your rail is slick
@@BeingFireRetardant kinda. It doesn’t work super well as a monopod when the 30 round magazine is longer though. And even still, you won’t be as stable using it as a monopod than just sitting the whole rail down on it. This is scientifically proven by surface are or whatever. Idk ask a doctor from New Jersey
@@BeingFireRetardant Nah. I promise you, it gets in the way. You want as much contact with your shooting prop as possible. if it's a rock, maybe a fat wall or table or a big log your VFG is getting in the way. If you have to monopod, use your magazine. If you're desperate to strap something to your rail, a shooting bag or a bipod is more useful than a VFG.
@@Muricanwerewolf Dear Lord... It's fucking preference guys. I'm happy for your slick rail life choices. Better is a very subjective word. I don't care if you like pineapple on your pizza either. My point is there are a hundred ways to run a gun. Use what you think works. But don't assume that everybody agrees with you. That just makes you a neo-fudd...
I know it was just an audio clip of Sergeant Hartman but hearing that voice come seemingly out of no where to berate your performance legitimately took 30 seconds off my life. Even after all this time the old dog's still got it 👍
Every veteran here started having flashbacks to round browns and doing absolutely nothing right as we shuffled from bus to building... That and a "fucking Jelly Doughnut!?!?" In a foot locker.
I use mine to butt up against or hook over barricades and tree branches and stuff. Especially when shooting at longer ranges (200-500 yards) it takes all of the recoil away and allows me to spot my own shots. Also it serves as a good index point for my light switch on my cloud defensive Rein. (Great light by the way. Highly recommend.)
Is there a risk, over time obviously, that if you are hooking your VFG in front of a ledge or wall that the stress from recoil could weaken and break the mlock bolts? I have no idea I'm just hypothesizing lmao
@@austin6ish It absolutely will, or it could possibly wear out the threads…. That being said you’re going to likely need to shoot thousands of rounds in that exact configuration, which would take years even with regular use… so if it gets loose, replace it. Vertical/angled grips are abundant and Mlok screws are endlessly plentiful
@@austin6ish Fortunately that part of your gun breaking won’t actually impair any functionality, it’ll just make shooting in specific scenarios potentially less stable. If it were to simply come loose while being used as a “hook” you could simply apply more pressure and by virtue of Mloks design it would likely still work until you let the pressure off. It’ll be loose and not useful past that point but it won’t get you killed on the spot… at least I don’t think THAT would be what got you killed lol. If you’re worried carry an extra one in your bag, but I’m confident that you’ll likely never need it.
I use a finger stop and I like it. It does get a bit uncomfortable on my finger after a while though since it’s putting pressure on the sides of the finger. I think angled foregrips are the best option. Or maybe I’ll put some tape on the finger stop to make it more comfy for my weak baby fingers.
I only use a VFG in one special configuration - on a 45° QD Mount, grip tilted to the left, so that I can run a 75 RNDS Drum in my AK and hold the Rifle like an LMG (I guess you can imagine what I mean). Otherwise, your lower arm/hand will collide with the (drum-) Magazine if you extend your arm. So unless for drum magazines, I personally don´t see much use for a VFG (on a 45° mount) anymore.
On short rails, you run out of room for your hand quick. The biggest advantage is when you've been through a couple mags and the rail starts to get hot.
Exactly my thoughts. You can use them just the same as a smaller hand stop as far as modern shooting grips go but you have the added functions holding it when the rail is hot and also holding it for longer periods
I use the stubby VFG on my rifle like a hand stop and for leverage on barricades. I think traditional VFGs work best when you have a crowded rail, or a rail too short for a better "C clamp". Something like a SCAR Rail, those old KAC M4 rails, or systems that have heat issues (think a Galil/AK where C clamping over that gas tube rail will burn you). That's my $.02.
For me it's the body mechanics. I've never really noticed a difference in recoil for my shooting, but I noticed with a grip and modified c-clamp it puts less strain on the forearm.
The hurty verty grips definite make things more comfortable. If you're short like me and NOT using a vertical grip you end up bending your wrist pretty much as far as it can go if you want a good clamp. A stubby vertical makes for a great hand stop and you don't bend at the wrist nearly as much while still being able to clamp down.
@@richardnamber813 go on an 18 mile hump through the hills of Pendleton, or a 30k foot mounted route clearance in Afghanistan. ounces equal pounds, pounds equal pain. Carry ammo, extra water, demo, and a metal detector. Leave all the extra bs at the pb
I found myself falling out of using a VFG in the traditional sense several years ago, and using it as more of a hand stop even during CQB training/ situations. It is definitely more comfortable for longer durations and is a much more stable shooting platform. I actually just recently went to a straight up hand stop setup to try out for some time.
I've found my grip has evolved from utilizing a vertical foregrip with a c-clamp grip, to an angled foregrip with the c-clamp grip, to a c-clamp with no foregrip, to more of a "pointer" grip (where I start with a c-clamp, but instead of wrapping all four of my fingers around the bottom of my handguard, I "point" my index finger along my handguard). I've found grips add unnecessary bulk to my rails. Also, for the folks who do this, explain to me why you would buy a vertical foregrip, saw it in half, and use it like a handstop instead of just buying a handstop to begin with.
I’ve found that installing the Magpul mlok handstop backwards is ideal for me (so the bigger hook is up front and backwards). Looks goofy but it honestly works with your index finger in front of it. Helps index your hand to your pressure pad for your light too.
Its refreshing to see someone here in AZ shooting in the desert, in June, at what appears to be friggin noon o'clock, in a balaclava, and running to boot. You are one crasy guy!
One of my favorite memories of being so glad I had a VFG. Playing army somewhere hot where the sun was making metal not fun to touch and we had to set up a support by fire. The only position I could be in engage targets was on a knee brush was in the way so no prone. 2 mags in gloved hands got spicy doing the handstop method went to noob grip. Mag 4 or 5 I discovered my hand was creeping away even further from the barrel to about halfway down the grip and hand is slighty less on fire. Not quite its intended purpose but it was an experience. Would win no marksmanship awards but hit what I was aiming at.
It's up to the shooter. It's their weapon. I personally run with VFGs It gives me more control over front of rifle and a resting surface for my hand. Plinking vs shooting tactically your gonna want a grip in the long game.
Remember that a foregrip reduces recoil so, in theory if you mount 9 RVG to your rails, you can reach negative recoil stats. XD vertical grips are nice because they add a good backstop to a c-clamp and also allows for a "palm forward push hold". Personally i like the magpul angled grips but they do not have the versatility of a vertical grip. I do like your idea of chopping the RVG. Great content.
I think vertical foregrips are a product of their time. They more or less began as a way to control recoil on SMGs like the Thompson. In the early 2000s when surefires and PEQs were giant, the VFG was adopted from SMGs to provide more grip space on a loaded down rifle. However now with longer handguards and smaller attachments, it makes more sense to use it as a handstop type thing to better secure your support hand on the mass of the rifle, if not just get an AFG
For short guns and the M4, yes. Take your support hand and pretend to a C clamp out in front of you. Now draw the support hand inward towards yourself but keep that c clamp grip. You will notice there is a lot of wrist tension that is not sustainable.
There was a time when a young Private First Class myself had an M4with a underbarrel 320, and ELCAN on the M4, an LA5, a light, AND an Eotech side mounted on the under-barrel 320, the rifle was a fucking monstrosity and a vertical foregrip mounted in place of the 320’s standard flip down grip was the only way to control the thing. They definitely have their place. As far as people saying for long duration they’re more comfortable, when clearing rooms on target for hours people start to do a weird, break the stock “over the shoulder” and 45 degree cant to the weapon because you’ve been locking down a doorway/alley for 45 min while the primary team is clearing/vice versa As always great content and I’m jealous of all the fairly difficult to acquire firearms you get to shoot.
I can live without a vert grip but it is nice on shorter set ups and in general to index when trying to activate lights or buttons. It can help with barriers and awkward angles but sometimes it gets in the way.
I had mine on for the sole reason that it made my wrists way less achy during patrols and deep infiltrations. I would never use it for cqb or any other kind of shooting. It was simply just added on the gun for added comfort. LCP, Medic / Light Reconnaissance.
The broomstick made a lot of sense in 2007 when you had to cram a PEQ and light on 6” of rail, but in 2022 it’s not worth the weight. I still like a tiny hand stop but at this point I’ve come to accept that it’s probably more safety blanket than tool.
Man I know you’ve said your not a veteran which I highly doubt but if that’s true then you’ve done the best research ever to learn all the nuances and little things that military folks do
(Brushes the dust off FPSRUSSIA videos) Let me tell you a story from long ago. Before the coats & Kentucky Ranch Thumbs. Before the Results, but not before History Jesus, that guys always existed. In a lawless and apparently highly flammable land, one man showed us de way.
Why are you as a man trying to put a phallus object onto your rifle? Thanks for watching bazzos, drink water and work out. Also argue amongst yourselves.
I know everyone is clowning vfg but as a guy who only gets to “train shoot” (versus shooting at a stationary distance like indoor range etc) a couple times a year, I think mine helps me out and let’s me really push the rifle extra tight. I desperately need to get in better shape tho and now I feel more depressed than ever after the motivating speech at the end.
Had to jump on here and speak my mind. I’m 56 now, but at 48 I was diagnosed with a rare form of spina bifida. It causes a lot of pain in my left leg and weakness in my hands. If I didn’t have my vertical for grip. I would have sold my AR. I just couldn’t hold onto it anymore. That’s my two cents. Have a blessed day. Love your channel..
I find that having the dong on my iron sighted AK is especially helpful since you can’t really get a full C clamp without obstructing your sights, and the natural curve of the wood (nice) makes for a natural hand stop.
From what I've seen on gun videos etc is that after a few mags the majority of people let go of the vertical fore grip especially in videos melting barrels etc.
As someone who fucked up his left wrist in motorcycle accident, i am in desperate need for VFG on rifles otherwise if i position my hand in classic position without vfg my hand hurts like hell after a minute or so.
It depends on the guy operating the firearm. Some guys like em, some guys don't. I like a good vertical grip, but I think old school guys could take it or leave it.
I know it's sort of a meme, but I really enjoy the Fortis Shift grip for having multiple ways to comfortably hold the rifle. You can C-Clamp pretty aggressively and have a nice slot in the top portion of the grip for your pinky to slide into giving you some pretty positive engagement with the grip compared to some others. If you don't want to C-Clamp and just "Beer can" grip the thing, it's still extremely comfortable for that. And not as long as some of the older style grips tend to be. Only thing I find it's not great for is any type of braced shooting since there really isn't any sort of "Flat" surface to get decent purchase on something. Regardless....It's still become my standard for all my guns. Too versatile to pass up personally.
In my years of shooting three gun, never seen a top competitive shooter using a vertical fore grip, for good reason… It places the barrel’s center of gravity above your hand, when you want it in your hand to better counter recoil and transition quickly.
The first time I walked through the woods for 10 minutes with my BCM Kag, I said, "I'm ripping this thing off as soon as I get home." Now I'm using a magpul MVG with the back half sliced off and gripping using a thumb break. Good control and comfortable when patroling.
man is a chad for doing this is 101 F. here lately in OK has been 104F. I could only stay outside for like an hour or shooting WITHOUT running and exercising and gear. What a balaclava god. I really like these segments, although I love your gun reviews and hope you got more down the pipes, simple experiments like this I feel like people only really do with just talking and their experience
I've always had a love-hate relationship with them. But I've always used them because I always found it easier to activate my light (Surefire G2X) with a vfg.
Yes, they matter. No, verticle grips aren't for controlling recoil. Vertical grips give you the ability to continue to place acurate shots after a high round count. Try your c-clamp after hundreds of rounds and a smoking hot barrel. The additional benefits are that it is easier to use the verticle grip with a fully loaded plate carrier and it's easier to carry on long patrols. For most shooters these are non-issues. If you wear armor, shoot high round count, and carry your rifle for long distances then the verticle grip will help.
In my own personal experience, VFGs are a good idea on machine guns if they are paired with a bipod. That combination allows you to really bear down on the system and dominate the recoil to the best of your own ability. But on a rifle such as the AR-15, C-clamp is king. I find that the C-clamp allows me to not only control recoil, but it allows me to drive the muzzle from target to target easily, without over-travel.
I keep mine on for training reasons. When I hand my gun off to another person with less shooting experience; I’ll tell them to use the grip then I can ensure that their left hand is where I want it to be: away from the front of the barrel, away from the Ejection port, and off the hot bits.
To start with, I don't exactly do "C clamp", but instead "thumb over bore" which is just C clamp but with your pointer finger parallel to the barrel allowing for a more comfortable wrist angle and faster point shooting which was important with our issued acogs in cqb. Grips make a bigger difference with thumb over bore than normal C clamp in my experience. When I was active I only used the issued broom stick and the grip pod/stripped grip pod which was just a large hollow grip at that point. Now that I'm out and have more choices to use I have found the slate black industries SVG and BCM vertical grip to be better suited to me and more practical in general. I did notice some improvement in recoil control but more importantly less wrist fatigue during patrols and long shooting days, ie clearing mout towns allowing me to maintain better control for longer. They are also useful for indexing your hand to switches for lights/IR devices.
I've ran a verty on and off of an HK91 pattern rifle, and from my experience I didn't notice an increase or detriment to my accuracy or overall grouping. What I did notice, is that with VFG, I can manipulate the rifle a bit easier, when the grip is fully grasped like a 'nooby' it frees up muscles in the support hand and arm and I could noticeably swing the rifle onto a target easier. Your mileage may vary I guess, also depending on where you install the VFG too. On my rifle I had it set up as close the trunnion/center balance point of the rifle as possible, I don't currently possess an Armalite style rifle so I couldn't say how much of a difference it would make on that platform. I think a further experimentation is warranted, I'd like to see you try VFG on/off with a few different types of rifles. HkG3/CETME, AK platform, and an AR platform, and a range set up with multiple targets set up so that you can make a double tap on each one switching back and forth between targets.
Screw recoil mitigation, if you run an AK then you know that it gets stupid hot really fast, and without a VFG you're only option is to grip the magazine.
The only guys I see using vertical grips are the ones who are “maybe” into butt stuff. No judgement tho! My best rifles are females so they don’t get ding dongs hanging off the bottom.
I put 2 grips together on my rifles, i put an angled foregrip on the bottom rail, without the finger groove piece because the grip will fit in the middle of my hand, then I buy a magpul handstop grip and put the bug piece on the left for my thumb and the smaller part on the right side so it fits between my middle and index finger,you get a really good grip on the end of the rifle, it's like the combination of a vertical grip and an angled grip, you get the recoil control like you would get with a vertical grip because of how tight you're holding it with your thumb and other fingers and you get the quick target acquisition quick and accurate target selecting shots that you get from an angled grip, ever since I realized how good this grip combo is, I've put it on all my rifles, I'm even considering drilling holes in my KSG to add some side rails so I can add this grip, this grip would be great for a pump shotgun
I like using mine with a thumb on top of the rail. Lets me have something solid to pull on and the wrist angle feels good especially for hitting a pressure switch.
This is how I use mine as well. Reference point mostly. But give a nice angled c clamp as well. Comfortable for me.. and I notice it helps best when firing fast.
For me a vertical grip is essential for shooting comfort in the sense of being able to hold on to the rifle after more than a mag or two of slow to moderate fire. Before with the stock fore end that came on my Colt I could manage at most two 40 round mags of slow aimed fire without gloves before I couldn't hold the gun, adding gloves bought me a another mag. Even switching to a free floated quad rail didn't change much. Adding a vertical grip fixed everything and made practicing ammo based instead of heat based.
Yep. All up to personal preference. I've found that the clamp method with a vertical grip is the most comfortable and effective method for me personally. It also translates well for guns with bigger handguards like MCXs and my MDRX. Plus it gives me the option to broomstick out of sheer, unadulterated laziness.
For someone like me, I used the short BCM grip as a hand stop for a while, then needed a shoulder surgery with my non-dominant arm and C clamp is extremely uncomfortable now. Now I use VFG’s like a mofo.
I used to prefer a foregrip, then got more comfortable with just C-Clamping until I just tossed my foregrip in a box. Now that I've built a 10.5inch SBR however, I'm considering getting a foregrip again. C-Clamping on that short of a rifle holds my wrist at a generally uncomfortable angle. So I think that's definitely one merit towards the foregrip camp. It definitely is much more comfortable on guns with a lot less real estate to stretch your arm out comfortably.
Without watching this video from having it pop into my feed, yes it does make a difference, you pull down when the recoil pushes the operator using the firearm which in most cases cause the area of fire to be smaller by restricting it to a line area, whereas gripping awkwardly or using the C clamp technique can throw aim and recoil slightly to the right or left depending on which side the operator is gripping in a circle area.
The only times I ever really use a VFG is either because the weapon was too hot (wear gloves) or I was resting/bracing it for longer shots. Issued kit so I tried it out. I am not a fan. If used for storage you’re better off placing that added weight further back to better balance the firearm or carry elsewhere. I prefer a barricade stop and indexing tab on my go-to, or a bipod on the long boi rifles. All that said it’s a preference thing, but I think we can all agree that those who use a “grip-pod” should self delete.
Watched a video of this Navy SEALs dude discussing his most often used rifle...he had a potato grip on the left side that he gripped to allow his wrist to be straight bc of old wrist injuries. I can relate. I might do this as well.
This is a question that I have never really been effected by. I love C-clamping, I love vertical grips, I love horizontal grips. It really depends on what I'm feeling like on the day, but at the end of the day I like them all.
I never even thought of using a vertical foregrip for recoil mitigation, I just thought it was all about comfort. For example, I use one because I inherited a trait from my dad where my wrist/arm can’t rotate as far as it can for most people, so holding a rifle like normal where your fingers are on one side, thumb is on the other, and the hand guard rests on your palm, is so painful for me that I can’t hold the position for more than a minute at most
The vertical grip funtion is to Help a better grip with sustaind semi-auto fire Is more usefull on close quarters Mostly when its necesary doing more than 3 shots per-second with intuitive aming... Also it improves movility without sacrifis the sustaind grip of the rifle... Preventing the exesive moving of the foward hand on the barrel while moving Greathings from Uruguay 🇺🇾
Of course they matter, they give you extra controllability in a lot of video games
They give +17% vertical recoil
Gotta get those ergo points
and in real life for some people on some builds
Very fed of you to say
M249 with foregrip, steady aim, and double tap and now you don't have to use your sights ever while you spray Spetsnaz down on Overgrown.
Honestly, I used a foregrip for a decent period of time in the army
My guys always asked why I, the medic of all people, felt the need to have one
The secret is, it was never about shooting
It was just comfier to patrol with
You're so lucky.
Same here. The only other advantage i ever really found was resting your hand under it when prone for a more stable forward platform while weighing much less than a bipod.
They really are more comfortable lol. You can kinda cradle your arm in between it and the mag well. The gun is still accessible but the weight is supported.
Hahaha! I just wrote the exact same thing as you! I was a medic in a reconnaissance battalion 😅
My friend Ryan (you might not know him) wildy succesful, famous even, agrees with you.
This man is answering the deepest philosophical gun questions that need answers. He is the hero we needed but did not deserved.
And we don't even know what he looks like
@@rangereview4590 true
@@rangereview4590 true beauty has no form
The true dark knight my dude lol, nice reference and now we or SOMEBODY must chase him
@@rangereview4590 He looks just like a fed
In the past I've seen people say that hand stops for more aggressive c-clamp grips are great until you're clearing rooms for hours or trying to just hold your rifle up on patrol. I suppose a classic long VFG is more like a comfortable hand grip than for maximum recoil mitigation.
Even on BCMs website, they specifically advertise the popular KAG grip as being a grip with a "slight angle without significant bulk adds just the right amount of relief to the wrist without substantially increasing the girth of the handguard"
Because the grip was designed with Haley you also get his classic jargon, "Designed to complement modern shooting grips, the Kinesthetic Angled Grip (KAG) uses a biomechanically efficient forward rake to create an interface for positive retention and joint relief to the wrist, elbow, and shoulder, allowing for smooth weapon manipulation without substantial increase to the girth of the weapon system."
I hope Admin does a review on the KAG just to do his Haley impression for the whole video
lol I promise you it’s not that deep
@@nathancummins8728 cheese
you should watch Vigiliance Elite's AR15 setup and he'll tell you why he uses a vert grip
just grip the magwell
Always used a VFG during my ruck marches in the Army. Made carrying my M4/SAW much better.
Between Garand Thumb and Admin, the science info being put out is nothing short of staggering!! Another epic vid bro. Keep'em coming!!
Oh if you are into science, go watch Paul Harrell.
they are the same guy , he puts on different voices for different personas.
@@EfftupSmith LOL
The gunny voice-over while you tried to draw a "doughnut" killed me. Perfect!
R.I.P. R. Lee Ermey you legend
"You climb obstacles like old people fuck!!"
You are missed by many R. Lee Ermey
@@michaelfranciotti3900 I will motivate you, if it short dicks every cannibal on the congo
@@michaelfranciotti3900 "get the fuck off my obstacle"
The man was a master, he improved all those insults. None of those were written by Kubrick. Beautiful, just beautiful 🥲👍
With modern shooting I use my vfg more as a hand stop to support a c clamp grip and my favorite use of it is getting a nice hold on a ledge for more stable shooting. It’s also comfortable when wearing your rifle for a long time with a sling.
Same.
Take some weight off that sling.
no added VFG is needed for the *Grip Clamp C* ™
This hero is increasing accuracy and control without selling us anything. 10/10 chad confirmed
WHAT WAS I THINKING
Why not both?
VFG's are definitely a useful and practical piece of kit, we used the older "broom handle" VFG's (like on that first rifle you showed) in the Army during the OIF/ GWOT, very handy in relentless Urban Fighting and those long suckfest days. There's many flavors, use what y'all like and fits your needs.
The R. Lee Ermey sound bits got me lol, nice bru.
rip
Using the foregrip for leverage during a muzzle strike is helpful. Gives you a bit more force when poking bad guys in the eye.
Doubt you’ll ever make it there alive
My mans been watching Shawn Ryan 👍
Muzzle thump. For maximum compliance from the bank teller :)
@@tarandfeatherem hey Fed. You're not gonna trick us... go back to the ATF office
@@mattysee24 bruh there’s bank robberies happening all the time I’m hardly concocting a conspiracy here lol just a joke my guy I don’t carry a badge and would never want to
I intentionally want guns without rails: less rails means not going broke because you can't decide which grip, light, and Keurig looks best on your rifle.
Yeah because without rails your only option is to hose clamp a maglite on
M203 or bust
until duct tape starts whispering to you in the middle of the night about the temptations of $300 surefire flashlights
TACTICAL BEAN HOLDER!!!
“It stiff enough” my girlfriend told this morning then it went soft again😔
I remember in the police academy they had us qualify on the pistol with no fatigue for the state required qualification but then they had us do the same course of fire under stress with fatigue and I actually shot better with the exercise. I think it’s because my body thought I was dying and went into survival lizard mode. #fatcoplife
Gib wurm.
I can relate, stress shoots in the army definitely yield a little bit better results for me at least
Lizard mode is always on (It's milennia old, kinda hard to kill if you like the pun). Our executive function is doing it's best to keep it in check otherwise, which creates a lot of dissonance if ya catch me. Good shooting!
I was doing the shooting test for my CCL and shot like shit for the chest target, still passed it, but I wasn't happy. Then they told me to aim for the head and I put 5 rounds into a quarter sized target rapidly.
I have no idea what I did right to achieve that but the instructor thought it was hilarious.
Enforcing unconstitutional laws is exhausting at times
One big consideration for all you recce-ing out there, or just doing the work in the woods. In nature, there aren’t a lot of nice flat edges to brace the grip off of, but there are a lot of irregular surfaces, and using your pack as support to shoot distance. It’s much easier to use these irregularly shaped obstacles as a rest when the bottom of your rail is slick
Agreed. My go to AR is slick for that very reason.
You could make the identical argument to the contrary, using the VFG as a monopod or rest...
@@BeingFireRetardant kinda. It doesn’t work super well as a monopod when the 30 round magazine is longer though. And even still, you won’t be as stable using it as a monopod than just sitting the whole rail down on it. This is scientifically proven by surface are or whatever. Idk ask a doctor from New Jersey
@@BeingFireRetardant Nah. I promise you, it gets in the way. You want as much contact with your shooting prop as possible. if it's a rock, maybe a fat wall or table or a big log your VFG is getting in the way. If you have to monopod, use your magazine. If you're desperate to strap something to your rail, a shooting bag or a bipod is more useful than a VFG.
@@Muricanwerewolf
Dear Lord...
It's fucking preference guys.
I'm happy for your slick rail life choices. Better is a very subjective word. I don't care if you like pineapple on your pizza either.
My point is there are a hundred ways to run a gun. Use what you think works. But don't assume that everybody agrees with you. That just makes you a neo-fudd...
I know it was just an audio clip of Sergeant Hartman but hearing that voice come seemingly out of no where to berate your performance legitimately took 30 seconds off my life. Even after all this time the old dog's still got it 👍
Every veteran here started having flashbacks to round browns and doing absolutely nothing right as we shuffled from bus to building... That and a "fucking Jelly Doughnut!?!?" In a foot locker.
@@jamesdevore3022 because you were hungry
I use mine to butt up against or hook over barricades and tree branches and stuff. Especially when shooting at longer ranges (200-500 yards) it takes all of the recoil away and allows me to spot my own shots. Also it serves as a good index point for my light switch on my cloud defensive Rein. (Great light by the way. Highly recommend.)
Is there a risk, over time obviously, that if you are hooking your VFG in front of a ledge or wall that the stress from recoil could weaken and break the mlock bolts? I have no idea I'm just hypothesizing lmao
@@austin6ish It absolutely will, or it could possibly wear out the threads…. That being said you’re going to likely need to shoot thousands of rounds in that exact configuration, which would take years even with regular use… so if it gets loose, replace it. Vertical/angled grips are abundant and Mlok screws are endlessly plentiful
@@TheDiameter Gotcha. The reason I ask is because with my luck I would damage it and then it fails when I actually need to use that technique lmao
@@austin6ish Fortunately that part of your gun breaking won’t actually impair any functionality, it’ll just make shooting in specific scenarios potentially less stable. If it were to simply come loose while being used as a “hook” you could simply apply more pressure and by virtue of Mloks design it would likely still work until you let the pressure off. It’ll be loose and not useful past that point but it won’t get you killed on the spot… at least I don’t think THAT would be what got you killed lol. If you’re worried carry an extra one in your bag, but I’m confident that you’ll likely never need it.
I use a finger stop and I like it. It does get a bit uncomfortable on my finger after a while though since it’s putting pressure on the sides of the finger. I think angled foregrips are the best option. Or maybe I’ll put some tape on the finger stop to make it more comfy for my weak baby fingers.
I only use a VFG in one special configuration - on a 45° QD Mount, grip tilted to the left, so that I can run a 75 RNDS Drum in my AK and hold the Rifle like an LMG (I guess you can imagine what I mean). Otherwise, your lower arm/hand will collide with the (drum-) Magazine if you extend your arm.
So unless for drum magazines, I personally don´t see much use for a VFG (on a 45° mount) anymore.
Gigachad behavior
Yeah those model clipping really ruins the immersion :3
B25u enjoyer
Same, I run my only VFG on my RPK
1:44 "It's your gunfight; do whatever you want."
That's funny in weirdly surreal way.
You'll have the rest of your life to figure it out.
@@AdministrativeResults only if you win.
On short rails, you run out of room for your hand quick. The biggest advantage is when you've been through a couple mags and the rail starts to get hot.
I have one on a Zastava for that reason. 40 rounds and it’s very hot can’t hold it. With the grip doesn’t matter how hot.
Exactly my thoughts. You can use them just the same as a smaller hand stop as far as modern shooting grips go but you have the added functions holding it when the rail is hot and also holding it for longer periods
Heat and rail space are the two best points in terms of using a VFG…especially on AKs.
And yet nobody mentioned either of them.
I use the stubby VFG on my rifle like a hand stop and for leverage on barricades. I think traditional VFGs work best when you have a crowded rail, or a rail too short for a better "C clamp". Something like a SCAR Rail, those old KAC M4 rails, or systems that have heat issues (think a Galil/AK where C clamping over that gas tube rail will burn you). That's my $.02.
For me it's the body mechanics. I've never really noticed a difference in recoil for my shooting, but I noticed with a grip and modified c-clamp it puts less strain on the forearm.
The hurty verty grips definite make things more comfortable. If you're short like me and NOT using a vertical grip you end up bending your wrist pretty much as far as it can go if you want a good clamp.
A stubby vertical makes for a great hand stop and you don't bend at the wrist nearly as much while still being able to clamp down.
As soon as I tried one, I noticed a lot less movement in my sight picture while shooting.
I like your idea of the stubby being a pseudo hand stop, seems like it would give you very consistent chimp clamp ups.
My personal belief is that their greatest use is on short PCCs that you cant C-clamp because you got IR and a bunch of other shit all over it.
Travis Haley has a video where he says basically the same thing; on shorter barrels, it’s simply more comfortable and natural-feeling to use a VFG.
maybe just take some of that shit off in stead of adding more shit?
@@mtnbound2764 no
@@wilddomestic2015 ok, fine, dont.
@@mtnbound2764 Tell us you don't run nods without telling us you don't run nods.
They sure work great on machineguns. Ive had a magpul grip on my 249 for over a year
Personal experience, save the weight and hold the bipods like a grip
@@alexmason1387 isn't the weight like couple ounces?
@@richardnamber813 go on an 18 mile hump through the hills of Pendleton, or a 30k foot mounted route clearance in Afghanistan. ounces equal pounds, pounds equal pain. Carry ammo, extra water, demo, and a metal detector. Leave all the extra bs at the pb
@@alexmason1387 what weight?? They’re hollow plastic tubes
@@zacharson1946 buddy it’s a fire sale on weight as a division combat engineer in Afghanistan, all the unnecessary bs must got
I found myself falling out of using a VFG in the traditional sense several years ago, and using it as more of a hand stop even during CQB training/ situations. It is definitely more comfortable for longer durations and is a much more stable shooting platform. I actually just recently went to a straight up hand stop setup to try out for some time.
How are you liking your hand stop setup?
I've not left the shitter since the last video. This is my life now
Connected by the pipes, bröther
I've found my grip has evolved from utilizing a vertical foregrip with a c-clamp grip, to an angled foregrip with the c-clamp grip, to a c-clamp with no foregrip, to more of a "pointer" grip (where I start with a c-clamp, but instead of wrapping all four of my fingers around the bottom of my handguard, I "point" my index finger along my handguard). I've found grips add unnecessary bulk to my rails.
Also, for the folks who do this, explain to me why you would buy a vertical foregrip, saw it in half, and use it like a handstop instead of just buying a handstop to begin with.
I’ve found that installing the Magpul mlok handstop backwards is ideal for me (so the bigger hook is up front and backwards). Looks goofy but it honestly works with your index finger in front of it. Helps index your hand to your pressure pad for your light too.
Like button smashed
Its refreshing to see someone here in AZ shooting in the desert, in June, at what appears to be friggin noon o'clock, in a balaclava, and running to boot. You are one crasy guy!
great video i especially love the audio edits and boomer wife jokes
One of my favorite memories of being so glad I had a VFG. Playing army somewhere hot where the sun was making metal not fun to touch and we had to set up a support by fire. The only position I could be in engage targets was on a knee brush was in the way so no prone. 2 mags in gloved hands got spicy doing the handstop method went to noob grip. Mag 4 or 5 I discovered my hand was creeping away even further from the barrel to about halfway down the grip and hand is slighty less on fire. Not quite its intended purpose but it was an experience. Would win no marksmanship awards but hit what I was aiming at.
It's up to the shooter. It's their weapon. I personally run with VFGs It gives me more control over front of rifle and a resting surface for my hand. Plinking vs shooting tactically your gonna want a grip in the long game.
Remember that a foregrip reduces recoil so, in theory if you mount 9 RVG to your rails, you can reach negative recoil stats. XD
vertical grips are nice because they add a good backstop to a c-clamp and also allows for a "palm forward push hold". Personally i like the magpul angled grips but they do not have the versatility of a vertical grip. I do like your idea of chopping the RVG. Great content.
my fore grip cant even get vertical anymore.
Under rated comment
Leaving a like and comment for the top comment algorithm.
I think vertical foregrips are a product of their time.
They more or less began as a way to control recoil on SMGs like the Thompson. In the early 2000s when surefires and PEQs were giant, the VFG was adopted from SMGs to provide more grip space on a loaded down rifle.
However now with longer handguards and smaller attachments, it makes more sense to use it as a handstop type thing to better secure your support hand on the mass of the rifle, if not just get an AFG
For short guns and the M4, yes. Take your support hand and pretend to a C clamp out in front of you. Now draw the support hand inward towards yourself but keep that c clamp grip. You will notice there is a lot of wrist tension that is not sustainable.
There was a time when a young Private First Class myself had an M4with a underbarrel 320, and ELCAN on the M4, an LA5, a light, AND an Eotech side mounted on the under-barrel 320, the rifle was a fucking monstrosity and a vertical foregrip mounted in place of the 320’s standard flip down grip was the only way to control the thing. They definitely have their place.
As far as people saying for long duration they’re more comfortable, when clearing rooms on target for hours people start to do a weird, break the stock “over the shoulder” and 45 degree cant to the weapon because you’ve been locking down a doorway/alley for 45 min while the primary team is clearing/vice versa
As always great content and I’m jealous of all the fairly difficult to acquire firearms you get to shoot.
I can live without a vert grip but it is nice on shorter set ups and in general to index when trying to activate lights or buttons. It can help with barriers and awkward angles but sometimes it gets in the way.
Basically why some variants of the aug have an integrated vfg aswell as the MP5K due to how short they are as far as viable places to put your hand.
I had mine on for the sole reason that it made my wrists way less achy during patrols and deep infiltrations. I would never use it for cqb or any other kind of shooting. It was simply just added on the gun for added comfort.
LCP, Medic / Light Reconnaissance.
Oh shit the R Lee Ermey overlay was hysterical.
The broomstick made a lot of sense in 2007 when you had to cram a PEQ and light on 6” of rail, but in 2022 it’s not worth the weight. I still like a tiny hand stop but at this point I’ve come to accept that it’s probably more safety blanket than tool.
Vertical grip is to keep hands from getting burned during a firefight. That's about it.
Man I know you’ve said your not a veteran which I highly doubt but if that’s true then you’ve done the best research ever to learn all the nuances and little things that military folks do
To be fair, if you aren't wearing a white lab coat, is it really science?
(Brushes the dust off FPSRUSSIA videos) Let me tell you a story from long ago. Before the coats & Kentucky Ranch Thumbs. Before the Results, but not before History Jesus, that guys always existed. In a lawless and apparently highly flammable land, one man showed us de way.
@@6catsinacoat781 Those videos live in a special place, deep in our gun loving hearts.
If there's a lab coat it's science. If there isn't, it's engineering
These videos keep getting better. Somehow he bests himself every time.
Only downhill from here❤️
@@AdministrativeResults You just punned me! Awesome. Ya know, the downhill is harder than the uphill. What did the choo choo say? What?
I believe making videos of beating oneself is against YT TOS. Prayers to avoid the Al Gore Rhythms displeasure.
Why are you as a man trying to put a phallus object onto your rifle? Thanks for watching bazzos, drink water and work out. Also argue amongst yourselves.
Get fit or die. I need to get fit ha!
I saw someone on instagram had a 3d printed pair of nuts as a VFG
"Sometimes a fore grip is just a fore grip" - Sigmund Freud
@@mitch511 look up TFB TV’s PEN-15 rifle build
If your vfg is longer than 2 inches you’re just showing off at that point. StubClub ftw
Always thought VFG's were great for comfort. Also handguards get pretty hot after shooting a while, and it gives you something to grab on to.
That Full Metal Jacket audio was AWESOME!!! I got a good laugh.
I know everyone is clowning vfg but as a guy who only gets to “train shoot” (versus shooting at a stationary distance like indoor range etc) a couple times a year, I think mine helps me out and let’s me really push the rifle extra tight. I desperately need to get in better shape tho and now I feel more depressed than ever after the motivating speech at the end.
I use the BCM Mod 3 short vertical grip as an handstop/index point for my modified C-clamp grip
Had to jump on here and speak my mind. I’m 56 now, but at 48 I was diagnosed with a rare form of spina bifida. It causes a lot of pain in my left leg and weakness in my hands. If I didn’t have my vertical for grip. I would have sold my AR. I just couldn’t hold onto it anymore. That’s my two cents. Have a blessed day. Love your channel..
I find that having the dong on my iron sighted AK is especially helpful since you can’t really get a full C clamp without obstructing your sights, and the natural curve of the wood (nice) makes for a natural hand stop.
Somewhere in the depths of texas, Brandon Herrera just got a chubby.
Totally. I like a grip on my AK for when it gets stupid hot.
From what I've seen on gun videos etc is that after a few mags the majority of people let go of the vertical fore grip especially in videos melting barrels etc.
Honestly I use the vertical grip cuz my shoulder has some issues. It's more comfortable to hold up and maneuver
As someone who fucked up his left wrist in motorcycle accident, i am in desperate need for VFG on rifles otherwise if i position my hand in classic position without vfg my hand hurts like hell after a minute or so.
It depends on the guy operating the firearm. Some guys like em, some guys don't. I like a good vertical grip, but I think old school guys could take it or leave it.
I know it's sort of a meme, but I really enjoy the Fortis Shift grip for having multiple ways to comfortably hold the rifle. You can C-Clamp pretty aggressively and have a nice slot in the top portion of the grip for your pinky to slide into giving you some pretty positive engagement with the grip compared to some others. If you don't want to C-Clamp and just "Beer can" grip the thing, it's still extremely comfortable for that. And not as long as some of the older style grips tend to be. Only thing I find it's not great for is any type of braced shooting since there really isn't any sort of "Flat" surface to get decent purchase on something. Regardless....It's still become my standard for all my guns. Too versatile to pass up personally.
Grip and slap it like it owes you money.
If you have to fire more then 2 full magazines ,fore grips are necessary, it helps stabilize an keeping heat away from your hand
Theyre great for bracing your gun against a barrier.
In my years of shooting three gun, never seen a top competitive shooter using a vertical fore grip, for good reason… It places the barrel’s center of gravity above your hand, when you want it in your hand to better counter recoil and transition quickly.
I love Vertical Foregrips.
The first time I walked through the woods for 10 minutes with my BCM Kag, I said, "I'm ripping this thing off as soon as I get home." Now I'm using a magpul MVG with the back half sliced off and gripping using a thumb break. Good control and comfortable when patroling.
Without even watching the video I can say foregrips are pretty good to have
man is a chad for doing this is 101 F. here lately in OK has been 104F. I could only stay outside for like an hour or shooting WITHOUT running and exercising and gear. What a balaclava god.
I really like these segments, although I love your gun reviews and hope you got more down the pipes, simple experiments like this I feel like people only really do with just talking and their experience
R. Lee, you are missed!
Vertical grips matter as long as you're fit enough. 🙃
I've always had a love-hate relationship with them. But I've always used them because I always found it easier to activate my light (Surefire G2X) with a vfg.
Yes, they matter.
No, verticle grips aren't for controlling recoil.
Vertical grips give you the ability to continue to place acurate shots after a high round count. Try your c-clamp after hundreds of rounds and a smoking hot barrel.
The additional benefits are that it is easier to use the verticle grip with a fully loaded plate carrier and it's easier to carry on long patrols.
For most shooters these are non-issues. If you wear armor, shoot high round count, and carry your rifle for long distances then the verticle grip will help.
In my own personal experience, VFGs are a good idea on machine guns if they are paired with a bipod. That combination allows you to really bear down on the system and dominate the recoil to the best of your own ability. But on a rifle such as the AR-15, C-clamp is king. I find that the C-clamp allows me to not only control recoil, but it allows me to drive the muzzle from target to target easily, without over-travel.
#AllForegripsMatter
I feel dongs are under-represented in this video.
I keep mine on for training reasons. When I hand my gun off to another person with less shooting experience; I’ll tell them to use the grip then I can ensure that their left hand is where I want it to be: away from the front of the barrel, away from the Ejection port, and off the hot bits.
Kung-fu Grip / Pocket Pool Champions love the VFG!
#PracticeMakesPerfect
To start with, I don't exactly do "C clamp", but instead "thumb over bore" which is just C clamp but with your pointer finger parallel to the barrel allowing for a more comfortable wrist angle and faster point shooting which was important with our issued acogs in cqb. Grips make a bigger difference with thumb over bore than normal C clamp in my experience. When I was active I only used the issued broom stick and the grip pod/stripped grip pod which was just a large hollow grip at that point. Now that I'm out and have more choices to use I have found the slate black industries SVG and BCM vertical grip to be better suited to me and more practical in general. I did notice some improvement in recoil control but more importantly less wrist fatigue during patrols and long shooting days, ie clearing mout towns allowing me to maintain better control for longer. They are also useful for indexing your hand to switches for lights/IR devices.
The only grip I want is that gorilla grip
😫😫😫
I've ran a verty on and off of an HK91 pattern rifle, and from my experience I didn't notice an increase or detriment to my accuracy or overall grouping. What I did notice, is that with VFG, I can manipulate the rifle a bit easier, when the grip is fully grasped like a 'nooby' it frees up muscles in the support hand and arm and I could noticeably swing the rifle onto a target easier. Your mileage may vary I guess, also depending on where you install the VFG too. On my rifle I had it set up as close the trunnion/center balance point of the rifle as possible, I don't currently possess an Armalite style rifle so I couldn't say how much of a difference it would make on that platform.
I think a further experimentation is warranted, I'd like to see you try VFG on/off with a few different types of rifles. HkG3/CETME, AK platform, and an AR platform, and a range set up with multiple targets set up so that you can make a double tap on each one switching back and forth between targets.
Hand stops are better than VFGs or AFGs, full stop
Screw recoil mitigation, if you run an AK then you know that it gets stupid hot really fast, and without a VFG you're only option is to grip the magazine.
The only guys I see using vertical grips are the ones who are “maybe” into butt stuff. No judgement tho! My best rifles are females so they don’t get ding dongs hanging off the bottom.
Butt stuff is the best stuff
Your vaginally spoken logic is impeccable...
The original COD MW conditioned people to think these attachments actually improve the weapon. They do not.
Yes they do, they make the gun 1000x more comfortable to hold for longer periods
I put 2 grips together on my rifles, i put an angled foregrip on the bottom rail, without the finger groove piece because the grip will fit in the middle of my hand, then I buy a magpul handstop grip and put the bug piece on the left for my thumb and the smaller part on the right side so it fits between my middle and index finger,you get a really good grip on the end of the rifle, it's like the combination of a vertical grip and an angled grip, you get the recoil control like you would get with a vertical grip because of how tight you're holding it with your thumb and other fingers and you get the quick target acquisition quick and accurate target selecting shots that you get from an angled grip, ever since I realized how good this grip combo is, I've put it on all my rifles, I'm even considering drilling holes in my KSG to add some side rails so I can add this grip, this grip would be great for a pump shotgun
I breathe about this hard when I go up my moms basement stairs for a hot pocket.
I like using mine with a thumb on top of the rail. Lets me have something solid to pull on and the wrist angle feels good especially for hitting a pressure switch.
This is how I use mine as well. Reference point mostly. But give a nice angled c clamp as well. Comfortable for me.. and I notice it helps best when firing fast.
For me a vertical grip is essential for shooting comfort in the sense of being able to hold on to the rifle after more than a mag or two of slow to moderate fire. Before with the stock fore end that came on my Colt I could manage at most two 40 round mags of slow aimed fire without gloves before I couldn't hold the gun, adding gloves bought me a another mag. Even switching to a free floated quad rail didn't change much. Adding a vertical grip fixed everything and made practicing ammo based instead of heat based.
Gotta love the expression attempt at 1:03. Keep up the great work kid!
Yep. All up to personal preference. I've found that the clamp method with a vertical grip is the most comfortable and effective method for me personally. It also translates well for guns with bigger handguards like MCXs and my MDRX.
Plus it gives me the option to broomstick out of sheer, unadulterated laziness.
For someone like me, I used the short BCM grip as a hand stop for a while, then needed a shoulder surgery with my non-dominant arm and C clamp is extremely uncomfortable now. Now I use VFG’s like a mofo.
Editor had fun with this one
Why of course he did it's me
I used to prefer a foregrip, then got more comfortable with just C-Clamping until I just tossed my foregrip in a box. Now that I've built a 10.5inch SBR however, I'm considering getting a foregrip again. C-Clamping on that short of a rifle holds my wrist at a generally uncomfortable angle. So I think that's definitely one merit towards the foregrip camp. It definitely is much more comfortable on guns with a lot less real estate to stretch your arm out comfortably.
Never noticed a difference in shooting but the VFG made a big difference reducing arm fatigue when carrying on long patrols.
Without watching this video from having it pop into my feed, yes it does make a difference, you pull down when the recoil pushes the operator using the firearm which in most cases cause the area of fire to be smaller by restricting it to a line area, whereas gripping awkwardly or using the C clamp technique can throw aim and recoil slightly to the right or left depending on which side the operator is gripping in a circle area.
Admin of the past still helping every day ❤
The only times I ever really use a VFG is either because the weapon was too hot (wear gloves) or I was resting/bracing it for longer shots. Issued kit so I tried it out. I am not a fan. If used for storage you’re better off placing that added weight further back to better balance the firearm or carry elsewhere.
I prefer a barricade stop and indexing tab on my go-to, or a bipod on the long boi rifles.
All that said it’s a preference thing, but I think we can all agree that those who use a “grip-pod” should self delete.
Watched a video of this Navy SEALs dude discussing his most often used rifle...he had a potato grip on the left side that he gripped to allow his wrist to be straight bc of old wrist injuries. I can relate. I might do this as well.
I have had one on mine since day 1, but I always use it as a c-grip hand stop.
This is a question that I have never really been effected by. I love C-clamping, I love vertical grips, I love horizontal grips. It really depends on what I'm feeling like on the day, but at the end of the day I like them all.
I never even thought of using a vertical foregrip for recoil mitigation, I just thought it was all about comfort. For example, I use one because I inherited a trait from my dad where my wrist/arm can’t rotate as far as it can for most people, so holding a rifle like normal where your fingers are on one side, thumb is on the other, and the hand guard rests on your palm, is so painful for me that I can’t hold the position for more than a minute at most
The vertical grip funtion is to Help a better grip with sustaind semi-auto fire
Is more usefull on close quarters
Mostly when its necesary doing more than 3 shots per-second with intuitive aming...
Also it improves movility without sacrifis the sustaind grip of the rifle...
Preventing the exesive moving of the foward hand on the barrel while moving
Greathings from Uruguay 🇺🇾