Great mix or shit mix? Is the client ALWAYS right?
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- Опубліковано 2 жов 2024
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Hello, I'm Nicholas Di Lorenzo, Studio Owner, Mixing and Mastering engineer at Panorama Studios.
I'm an Italian-Australian born and raised in Melbourne. I've been a creative professional for 10 years managing some pretty awesome projects for artists, labels and producers all around the globe.
What motivates and drives me?
My family,
Good food,
Great coffee.
You can find me on many platforms:
Instagram: / panorama_mastering
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Kit: kit.co/Panoram...
This is why reference tracks are important. “Give me something that demonstrates the sound character you’re looking for.” Can almost guarantee the reference track won’t sound like the thing they’re asking for.
good point however the general balance between the low mids, and highs, along with how "Loud" a master is in a reference can give us good insight.
I have written this here before, so this is my own approach, for better or worse:
1. The client is always right
2. The client doesn't know exactly what's wrong
3. The end result must satisfy both the engineer and the client
You don't need to weed out "weird" clients and showcase your work (although it will help get more clients), you just need to work with them to achieve their goals. You're like a contractor hired to work on a team project, you're not the project manager or the producer, so what matters is the product itself. I mean, if I am a painter and they hire me to paint a house blue I'm not going to say "naaaaah white is better" or turn down the job, even if the blue they want is ridiculous, I will try to make it the best blue possible.
Case scenario, at work the user calls and say their email is not working. The real problem is that their computer is unplugged from the network, but they are only going to report the immediate issue they are dealing with, which is that the email is not being delivered and it's my job to find out why and fix it.
I thought I was for sure going to disagree with Colt when he started, but you're right... He landed the perfect answer. It's the client's art. You've got to support that vision in a way that fulfills you as much as possilbe, but it won't always be your favorite.
I think the first example Colt gave, you probably might want to inquire about what system the client is using to listen on, and if it can even reproduced the low end properly.
I couldn’t agree more, man. With music being so subjective, often times mix notes are rarely straightforward. It’s our job to hear our clients and serve them.
However, to do that, we have to listen and be prepared to push ourselves to figure out what the client wants, decipher what they say, and work to exceed expectations. Including our own. 🤜🏻🤛🏻
If somebody asked for the bass to be turned up three times my next question would be "what are you listening to this on?" 😎
There are artists that know what they are asking, and there are the other insecure ones that doubt even their shadow!!! So as a mixer im also becoming a good philosopher convincing these type of artists to become more realistic about their goals and their artistic choices! Talking to them is more important than explaining what a compressor or eq does! But still a struggle to work with!!!
Colt pretty much tells on himself for being an ego maniac.
I'd watch the heck out of some client-based videos from you 👍
I used to respect Colt, but he's jumped the shark recently... was forced to unfollow!
Oh please explain.
how so?
I unsubscribed him a long time ago 😂
Same. All he does is complain. It comes across very unprofessional..
@ghfjfghjasdfasdf he did this video about products he would NOT recommend, and his rationale either was completely absent, completely nonsensical, or came down to his lack of ability. It was the dumbest YT I've seen... just things like that. He's just become a bit of a flog, imo.
one of the biggest things is what you said in essence- - having bad sound design either from samples or recorded audio and then clients having to make it work or polish it as much as you can to meet the end needs for the client. I also produced and thats one of the first things i realized is just make each sound or recording as close to the finished sound you want then mixing becomes easier and your not fighting a losing battle. I find that taking away from a sound is always better then trying to add something that isnt there in the first place.
Exactly, track 4/10 recorded before mix cant be 10/10, never ever
I don’t mix if I don’t like the project, If I want to stay honest to myself and to my clients it is the best option for both parties. But I don’t run a commercial studio, so that is a big difference. My clients have the possibility to opt out from a mix, so do I. If it doesn’t work, then it doesn’t work no hard feelings.
I think the big difference is the choice to make something really great in which you genuinely believe or to provide a consumer product with an ‘enough’ certain quality threshold to it.
Ultimately, communication is key... i loved the fact you do what should be taught from the beginning; Get on a call/zoom. I come from the studio era so the client would be in there during the mix so immediately you can make changes on the fly. Today with mixes being sent in from possibly across the country, there need to be communication/dialog. It changes everything and eliminates at least 60-70% of the 'weirdness' or ignorance. Thank you Nic for stating that off the jump.
If a client ask me to shit on their chest, my response is standing or squatting?
When a client says turn this up they don't know that there's 10 ways to do it that's why mixers are valuable because they can do it without ruining the mix.
During the fact that a client could listening to a song in a not optimale environment. They could think there needs more bass in the song. So sending a portfolio to a client is a must. And maybe tell them to listen to the song on headphones or earbuds for a better perspective
Yes to a video about managing clients.
I need it mastered at -0.0000001. Nothing more nothing less.
😂😂😂😂😂
I have some questions after watching your video.
1. Why do you lower the Apple Digital Master by 1 dB during mastering and print it?
2. I am curious about the RX settings when exporting to multiple files after mastering. Can you create a video?
3.Usually, after mixing, the frequencies are mixed with multiple sounds. When an audio compressor is used, IMD occurs, which causes problems below the fundamental frequency. So, shouldn't a fast attack be used to prevent this? However, you set the attack and release times together based on a mathematical formula. (And they are slow.)Is there a reason?
+Just watched another video, and so if you don't mind the imd, can you tell me why the attack and release times are the same?
I'll have a go at answering the last one for you. As far as I understand it, If the attack of a compressor is too fast when using it on low freqency information, it will clamp faster than the wave at that freqency can complete a cycle, causing a distorted waveform on the single wave cycle level, rather than either lowering the volume of the whole wave cycle or letting the whole thing through before clamping like is more similar to the behaviour at slower settings (simplifyed slightly for explanation purpouses). Which doesn't produce nearly as much distortion to the wave as the volume reduction is more gradual over a section of the wave form, as opposed to rapidly across just one cycle.
@@DaftyBoi412"I'm not sure if I understand correctly, but would this formula be effective, considering that digital audio compressor algorithms vary and knee settings differ, and the curves and values of attack and release times differ? And wouldn't setting the attack to 0 be more effective? (Putting release longer) I feel a bit foolish. Also, non-linear analog or hybrid-style compressors have limited values for attack and release, and they produce some harmonics (and it comes IMD). So, using such equipment might not be good for protecting the low end, but ultimately, in mastering, introducing harmonics and coloration doesn't always result in a bad outcome. It's a bit confusing. Thank you for your response."
@@lkjjohnm Setting the attack to 0 would technically "destroy" any transient information that passed over the threashold (not entirely but they wouldn't be considered transients really at a cetain point, less so the higher the ratio) and then you would be purely relying on the releace charicteristics to shape the sound, as the same instant there was a spike in volume it would be squashed to a ratio of it's self.
The low end distortion with a fast attack happens because you would be changing a slow moving wave form into a fast one because the attack of the compressor is faster than the wave movement, which means it's not a bass freqency anymore (it's not really entirely removed, just periodically distorting any low end the compressor is clamping down on, but only for the attack part of the wave when it's moving faster, the bass losses a ton of power which is tranfered to the resulting harmonics instead) which will still happen at 0 attack too, every time it crosses the threshold. If it was constantly above the threshold any transient would only be as high as the ratio allowed over the threashold for the given db gain over it 2:1 etc. And no bigfer transients than that could pass and this often can sound very flat and lifeless to listen too (especially when done on a full mix). You are then in some weird middle ground between a soft clipper and a compressor I think.
You also relinquish one control peramiter by essentually ignoring attack and setting it to "instant", and you may want a longer attack than the minimum theoretical for no distortion at X fundamental freqency. As that way to work out the fastest attck time that you're talking about is a minimum you can safely use without distortion to the lowest frequencies (caused by fast waveform volume manipulation applied to a slower moving wave), it's not nessisarly a sugested value to use, although it's often the one people go with when they are trying to gain as much control as is feasable with as little loss of low end as possible, it's not guarenteed to sound good set like that tho.
It may sound horrible at that fast of an attack and you may want it even slower, it all depends on the music, what it's doing, how it's reacting to the settings of that specific comprssor or compression algorythem and ultimately how it sounds (or feels).
You may want that distortion, however in mastering preserving the low end information is often prefered, and adding harmonics that are not at the expense of degrading the low end signal as much is more often the aproach taken, and knowing at what point that begins to happen is a useful tool to have. It's also wise to note that not all distortion profiles sound good (like Alising distortion in large amounts the vast majority of the time as a well known example), sometimes the same distortion will sound good on somethings and bad on something else, and it also depends on how much the thing is being distorted. The distortion you get from fast compressors is often periodic, and only when the bass hits, and it tends to destory the attack of the bass note, instead becoming a bunch of higher up harmonic distortion as iff the bass note is breaking up (at least at extream levels). It's rarely regarded as desierable or pleasent to listen to, unlike many other forms of saturation and distortion, although not every type.
Besides I don't think there are many (if any) compressors with a true 0 attack time, and if there are it would only be in the digital domain. However I'm not sure how useful it is or if would sound good (there's probably a good reason it doesn't exsist, or isn't done often if it does in some neiche plug in I am unaware of). There are ofc clippers and BW limiters that have it, but these are more protection devices and loudness devices, where as compression is more often used to gently controll the overall shape of things, rather than completely stop something from happening in the gain domain.
I hope that's given you a better insight. I havn't learned the full ins and outs of this either, as it's a very deep and complex topic, but from what I do know I try to explain my understanding the best I can to help you understand the bits I do that you might not. 😉👍
@@DaftyBoi412Thank you for your kindness and insight. I will try to understand it better even though I am not at the highest level, but I think your answer is good and it will be more helpful to me.
I take all work because I’m always growing and hate being in a box or cell. I produce crazy stuff too because I love new creations and experience. I hear Ego ego and ego! When Tupacs engineer tried this shit and got a chair thrown at him and Dave took over mixing and tracking. Engineers get their ass whooped doing crap like that. Imagine Colt telling Dilla your stuff is off, we need to quantize for a more tighter feel! Trust me Dilla I’ve mixed 1000nds of records…shiiiyet! Engineers like Mike Dean are still relevant today because their still plugged in to the underground and respected so he still mixing music that are not pristine quality. I know this from the producers who will hurt you for changing their sound, they love the grit and dirt or rawness, and Mike Dean is skilled at enhancing without changing the feel. One example using him because of personal experience but I know top players keep their ear to the ground. Can’t have your nose in the air and ear to the ground, have to choose one, no wrong choice, they both make money.
As a beginner mixing engineer, I get LOTS of requests on throwing some huge reverb in a punk rock track and all of this FL-Studio-producer-tricks stuff from UA-cam. That's when I think - oh, another destroyed mix that will never get in my portfolio.
if no one told you this i will.. keep going! never give up. its a rabbit hole that only gets deeper..
Make a delay way louder with more feedback instead and send them the mix. 9 times out of 10 they will say it's perfect now. They want to hear more space and things far away - then do it tastefully and roll off the lows and highs on the delay (put deesser before it also). They want kinda squashed sound or more sustain? Do it in parallel and mix in slightly to preserve the mix and transients. Most of the time the client is right but you need to find the way to do it properly - because doing it as they tell you is often not what's needed to achieve what they want to hear.
@@huberttorzewskiI know and use of this stuff, even some mid channel delay tricks from Dan Worrall. They just want the reverb, it's like a virus in the brain
@@aspillane123Thanks! Never thought on giving up actually, mixing is the choice of my heart, I know exactly that it's what I have to do in my life